Pros and Cons of your DO School

[ChrisGriffen]

Wrong.

Lol. I love how people forget that you can search their post history.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[footballstar01]

VCOM review from current student. (Virginia Campus)

PROS:
1) incredibly hiking nearby. Devil's marble yard is by far the best hike I've ever been on.
2) Very cheap housing. Just beware this is 100% a college town, so if you select poorly, expect many sleepless nights due to wild partying nearby. Great for college = not so great for professional school.
3) Amazing OMM training. Dr. Hardin, is very well known nationally, and one of our best teachers.

CONS:
1) Rotation coordinator (Sarah M.) is extremely lazy and slow to submit paperwork. Almost all of us have missed a great sub-intern or away rotation opportunity because she submitted weeks past the due dates. (last year's class had a very similar experience). When asked for updates, she usually doesn't respond to emails AT ALL (so i've heard). She has screened my calls multiple times despite being in the office for unknown reasons. Many of us are confused to find her out and about having lunch or "out of the office" during VCOM business hours while we miss deadlines for rotation paperwork.

2) Most other teachers are lazy: MANY of the tests are just copies from year to year. This means many students can just get 100% on tests by talking to past classes about where faculty get their questions. Our physiology professor last year (Mr. Riley) was the most notorious for this. He couldn't even pronounce many of the things he was trying to teach us, and would simple copy the entire test out of board review Q-banks. Other teachers simply pick up their 1000$ for the class, and pass out the answers in the first 5 minutes to their questions. Your quality of education is very poor. A couple of my very bright friends actually failed COMLEX 1 due to not being prepared. Many others in the class have also, but most do not talk about it.

3) Faculty are extremely difficult to deal with. Crystal in particular, is always nasty to students. She will openly yell at some in front of the class, and has screamed at the class to shut up 5 or 6 times. Nobody knows why she hates everyone, but it makes for a very negative classroom experience.

4) There is a STRICT attendance policy and dress code. You have to dress up every day, and always need to show up. No studying at your own time or at home. No skipping the under-qualified teacher's lectures. You can miss up to 15% of the classes, but afterwards, you receive an automatic academic failure and have to re-mediate.

5) Big brother system. There were two students who were casually talking about what they didn't like about the school. They were overheard, and called into the office for disciplinary action. Please note that there were no unprofessional things being said. One of the nicest (seeming) faculty Dr. Prater has been known to immediately report students who offer up personal problems and struggles. NEVER talk bad about the school, or you will be destroyed. Note other threads where other students speak out against VCOM even for completely benign things. All anonymous. Everyone is terrified of big brother.

6) Unprepared for boards. The curriculum doesn't really make you feel ready for boards at all. We are given an entire block before board to buy expensive prep courses or independently study all of the things we were never taught.

7) Bias site selection process. I got a good site luckily, but your core rotation site will be selected based on your comments of why you want to go there and how much the faculty likes you. There is no way to earn or influence your placement besides sucking up to the faculty. There is no system based on numerical or quantitative data or performance. It is chosen purely on the whim of a select few (including the notoriously lazy Sarah)

8) Be family medicine or GET OUT. We have required recruitment events where every single booth is family medicine. We only get 4 weeks of internal medicine (most schools have double that), and get 12 weeks of family medicine type training (rural / family / geriatrics etc). Be prepared to get trained on colds, cough, and hypertension for the majority of your clinical training, and to be less competitive than candidates who actually got a diversified training.

9) Tuition increases for expansion. They they went far out of their way to assure us that we are getting the best education, our tuition constantly increases as they build their satellites (money factories). Why go out of your way to CONVINCE us that we aren't the cash cows paying for your expansion? Why increase our tuition if you are so financially autonomous?

 

[footballstar01]

Sorry that was so long, but these are just my experiences. A few students actually like it at VCOM. Most don't though.

 

[thepoopologist]

Lol. I love how people forget that you can search their post history.

I'm well aware of it, and just because I talk about Western doesn't mean I'm a graduate of Western. But believe whatever it is you want.

 

[Escape_Goat]

I'm gonna go ahead and leave this here: at my school, doesn't really matter where, they are having us do "skits" for our hardest term class. Literally a skit. Like, a variety show. Instead of realizing we have an assload to already study for, we have to do these stupid things that waste time. Yea, I've never ever heard a medical school doing this.

Haha, school name is sig, bro.

 

[schwasted589]

So this isn't in the format of this thread, but I had someone PM me asking some specific questions and I wrote out this lengthy review of DCOM...figured it might help someone else. I'm a 4th year. Sorry for rambling/grammar mistakes/typos....I'm tired and typing on my phone.

First, I want to say you have to take what people say on the internet and in interviews with a grain of salt. I have noticed that no one wants to say anything negative about their own school because it makes them feel inferior. I think that's dumb. There are good things and bad things about every school, even the top tier schools like Harvard. I think it's funny that we will bitch about it ad nauseum amongst ourselves but then the school is all rainbows and puppy dogs when we talk to other people.

The basic sciences sucked while we were doing them...but looking back I really think we were prepared for boards and we weren't reeeeally absolutely miserable during the 1st 2 years. The professors are really variable...you'll learn how each person likes to test and teach and then you decide how you'd learn best from them. There are some professors that less than 10% of the class would physically attend and there were others that everyone liked (or were coercing us with extra points) and would go to. I was a mediasiter and watched almost every class on my own time (definitely one of the perks). Honestly there are a lot
Of new professors so I'm probably not as qualified to talk about the basic sciences anymore.

The clinical rotations are what you make of them. I felt pretty prepared for audition rotations minus being able to present a patient in the "proper way" because we don't rotate through hospitals with residents. I haven't heard a TON of complaints from other people about not feeling like they learned what we were supposed to. It seems ours are more lenient in terms of hours which has actually pretty nice because I don't think it's really necessary to work 5am-8pm watching the residents do notes or something to get a good education.

The pathology was great. Honestly anywhere you go you are going to see stuff because it's not like the patient knows they have something cool so they go to the big centers. They usually get sent there from somewhere else. My core served a huge area so we saw quite a bit of stuff. The things that needed specialists were sent out but even if you were at that big center you wouldn't really get to see anything because there are 8million people ahead of you in the pecking order. I honestly think being at a medium size hospital was fine. Like I said you just have to make sure you do some rotations at a place with a residency at some point before auditions to learn how you are supposed to fit into the hierarchy/present a patient (even though everywhere you go will be a little different).

3rd year you can do as much or as little traveling as you want. One of the big pros of our clinical years is the amount of flexibility. That's also a con because in order to take advantage of the flexibility you have to work harder to set up your rotations. Depending on your core (half the class does their core the first half of the year and half does it the second half) you could get your cores out of the way and then do whatever you want wherever you want (about 6 months of 3rd year and almost all of 4th year.) The school basically does nothing to help set most rotations up. Or you can stay at your core and easily set stuff up...but you have to stay wherever that is...and most places aren't the most exciting of locations.

Grading is letter based for the first 2 years and for all of your cores. The rest is pass/fail which I really think is dumb because we go from having grades to just a pass (which is like a C at most programs that have the honors/high pass/pass type thing going). Anyway, the grading really doesn't matter cause you'll be ranked either way almost everywhere.

I didn't take USMLE and should have. I'm pretty sure for the people that took it, almost all , if not everyone passed but it's kindve a self selection type of thing. Obviously if you don't think you will do well why risk having the fail when it's possible (although harder) to still get MD residencies if you don't take it...and DO residencies are still an option for us...don't know what will happen with the merger. I am applying to obgyn and I applied to 70 acgme programs and only got 7 invites. I was expecting less so I am happy...but if I took usmle (and did ok on it) I'm sure I would have done better. I think I got so many because I busted my (figurative) balls and did 5 audition rotations. Most of the places I actually feel Like I have a shot at I rotated through which is also a perk of our schedule. We basically can do as many aways as we can muster up the energy for. A lot of schools only have the options to do a few. In my opinion that is a HUGE detriment to applying for residencies.

Overall, I would rate the school about a B-. Harrogate kinda sucks but it's beautiful and a fine place to study for 2 years. I think the basic science education is a lot better than I originally thought when I was going through it. Our facilities are beautiful but that really shouldn't factor into your decision honestly...it's just a good way to impress students during the interview. I think the administration leaves us out to dry more than I would like especially 3rd and 4th year (meaning they do absolutely nothing for their $40,000 tuition) but that is a common theme at DO schools. At some points I felt like I was succeeding in spite of my school instead of because of it...but I think I am probably going to match in the specialty I want and that is really ally that matters to me.

As a side note. For all the premeds trying to pick a school....I know it seems like the most important decision you will make concerning your career, but it's really not. If you read through all the comments here you can see that people's experiences vary widely even within the same school. I honestly don't think one school is going to give you a leg up over another (I am talking only about DO schools because I hope if you are at the deciding point you know that going DO has relative disadvantages as compared to MD). Go where you think you will be happiest because you reeeeally don't want to be miserable for 4 years. We tend to forget that we still have to live during medical school...I have only just recently realized that I haven't put my life "on hold" like I originally thought when I was entering med school. I just was living a different kind of life than most people and that's ok. Anyway, hope this helps some people and if anyone has any specific questions feel free to PM me or comment here.

I'm going to piggy back off this post and talk about the preclinical years (I'm a 2nd year). DCOM has made some pretty significant changes to curriculum even in the past year or so. Last year's class complained that there wasn't enough time to study for boards so they've decided to have us be done with our "hard" science classes by mid April. From mid April to mid May we have OPP and a fundamentals of medicine/health care class 2x a week. From mid may to june 10 (that's our deadline for comlex), we have time off to study. It comes out to around 6 weeks of study time between our science classes and the COMLEX. The "con" to this setup, I guess, is that we have to come in for 2 weeks in June (2 days after our COMLEX date) for rotations prepwork...

Re: faculty. What the poster said is true; it's VERY variable. We have some people that are absolutely terrible and others that are amazing. We lost Dr Cross (the anatomy chair) last year which was a big blow but I think the MGA department is still fairly strong. Our physio department has some decent professors and I think our Microbiology/Immuno professors are awesome. Our OMM faculty...not so much. We've gained some new professors in that department but--I haven't taken the COMLEX yet so I could be off--I feel like I'm very unprepared for anything OPP related. They're losing some people this upcoming year (and lost a significant portion of their clinical faculty last year when they retired) and hiring new people so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt too. They've changed the clinical medicine course significantly this year so I can't speak to that at all.

The biggest perk with curriculum here is that there is no mandatory attendance policy. I go to class everyday (for the most part) but I know of people that will just up and leave for a week or so and be fine. I don't know of ANY other med school where that's even possible--and I'm not saying that that's a smart thing to do, but people can get away with watching lectures online for the most part. Our reproductive professors had in class quizzes (attendance wasn't required but you had to come to 20 lectures at least to get those points...I think there were around 40 lecs total in that class?) and people were SO upset because that doesn't happen here.

Re: study space. They've increased the class size and increased the number of master's students AND you have PA students/nursing students/vet students/etc so study space is limited. It's like battle royale trying to find a study room and you have people camping out in rooms all weekend so that they can claim it as theirs. It's annoying. Facilities are alright but the lecture hall in DCOM is definitely outdated

 

[Mehd School]

Damn VCOM, you scary.

 

[HuskyPride149]

Can recent students give an assessment and their opinions on UNECOM and LECOM-Erie now? All of the other posts are like 4 years old. Thank you!

 

[The_DO_Master]

Can any current student comment on VCOM-CC and ATSU-KCOM? thanks

 

[ChrisGriffen]

This thread needs to die. Not only is it lacking any content other than pre-med bumps...the reviews are questionable at best.
The most recent review of my school isnt even close to accurate, and talking to other students on rotations about their schools, most of these are just misinformation. Just pissed off students venting and embellishing.

 

[armastice]

Updated one on TouroNY???

 

[meliora27]

How about KCUMB?

Problem is that with a new pre-clinical curriculum, M4's like myself really can't comment that much on the M1/M2 factors and policies like attendance, board prep, stuff like that since it's all changed since we were there. I think there's also some new clinical tracks (? rural, ? global) so again, even our input on years 3 and 4 may be not completely accurate anymore.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Problem is that with a new pre-clinical curriculum, M4's like myself really can't comment that much on the M1/M2 factors and policies like attendance, board prep, stuff like that since it's all changed since we were there. I think there's also some new clinical tracks (? rural, ? global) so again, even our input on years 3 and 4 may be not completely accurate anymore.

Tell us stories of the olden days. Did you guys have to walk uphill from the cafeteria to the library? Did you guys really study in that lecture room near Smith? It looks awfully small. What was it like having a relatively small class room? Was Independence as glamorous as it is now?

On a serious note the new Dean mostly works on the pre-clinical years. I doubt the 3rd and 4th year have changed too much. Any general advice for board prep or clinical years would be greatly appreciated.

Overall do you feel KCUMB gave you an adequate education when going into your clinical years? The lectures are pretty much the same just broken up into 1st and 2nd year now. How do you feel compared to your MD counterparts?

 

[meliora27]

Any general advice for board prep or clinical years would be greatly appreciated.
Overall do you feel KCUMB gave you an adequate education when going into your clinical years? The lectures are pretty much the same just broken up into 1st and 2nd year now. How do you feel compared to your MD counterparts?

- General Board Prep

I knew that I was only going to be applying to ACGME programs so my focus was solely on the USMLE. I started the day second semester of second year started.

Sources: First Aid / Pathoma / Goljan /
Prep Course: DIT
Q-Banks: UWorld x2/ COMBANK x 1.5 / USMLE Easy (or whatever the free one is on the school library site) ~ 500 questions

I didn't go to class that often second semester, so most of my days were spent studying for boards. COMBANK questions are really easy so I used those first as to not exhaust UWorld. I picked a system, studied it in FA and did the path in Pathoma and the corresponding section in Goljan and then did system-specific questions in COMBANK initially. Later on, I did random stuff in UWorld.

Stan is helpful to meet with to develop a study schedule. Having a schedule and sticking to it is a big part of it.

- Clinical Prep

For all the criticisms I may have of the school, the one thing they do exceptionally well is educate their students. I felt my fund of knowledge starting rotations was a lot stronger than students from other medical schools. I did a lot of studying on my own, but KCUMB provided a terrific education

- MD Counterparts

I never felt that my fund of knowledge of was less than theirs. I also never felt that they looked down on DO's. Bottom line is if you know your stuff, you know your stuff. Make it a point to know your stuff.

- Third Year Core Rotations

This is the achilles heel of DO school's that down have their own teaching hospitals or really solid clinical affiliates such as CCOM that share with Chicago Med (Rosalind Franklin) and Univ of Illinois - Chicago for example. I am of the belief that you only know what you see, so you have to be somewhere where you're going to see as much as you can. Many old school attendings (MD) reservations with DO's seems to stem from their clinical training. I do not believe that preceptor based rotations are adequate or will prepare you for residency. I chose a core site where although I was at community hospitals, at least there were established residency programs at the sites I was at, morning reports, noon conferences, a structure more similar to what you will see in residency.

Attending evals are only used in a pass/fail context. So as long as you don't have any major deficiencies to warrant a pass, even the most glowing comments from an attending will only result in a pass. High Pass and Honors is based solely on your score on the NBME (MD) Shelf Exams you take. DO WELL ON THESE. Residency programs need a way to sort through the many thousands of applications that they receive, one filter they can apply is to only show applicants who honored their [blank] rotation. About half of my interviewers have commented in my interview that it was good that I honored the rotations in the field I'm applying too. Programs already set their filters to filter out DO's, don't give them any more reason to filter you out. Study hard, and it's possible.

FWIW, I used Case Files, Mastering the Boards for both step 2 and 3, and UWorld to study during third year

- Fourth Year Rotations

The school requires EM and a Medicine rotation (it can be gen med or any subspeciality, there's a list they'll show with tons of options). Other than that, you have a ton of flexibility which is really nice.

Hope some of this helps

 

[meliora27]

So for fourth year, you can literally go anywhere in the country?

Yes, so long as you can get it set up with all the required paperwork. Usually it's not a big deal.

 

[meliora27]

So it's very easy to set up rotations in, say, Chicago?

Yes

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Yes, so long as you can get it set up with all the required paperwork. Usually it's not a big deal.

Ballin'

Thank you for typing all that up!

 

[babdoc]

Yeah...I'd agree with that last write-up. If one doesn't end up at a heavily academic-type core site their for third year, it would be good to use those first rotations of fourth year to go to an academic center to rotate with a residency. In my book, it's less about face time (though that's certainly nice) and more about getting experience in that academic setting which is very different from preceptor-based rotations.

 

[YourMD]

Can someone write and recent review for Rowan-SOM and GA-PCOM?

 

[Mehd School]

They've changed the clinical medicine course significantly this year so I can't speak to that at all.

I'm a first year at DCOM, so I can comment on the clinical medicine course. It's a cluster****.

It's truly my only gripe about the school. It's as if we're guinea pigs and they're constantly changing crap around whenever they feel like it. First semester we had "disease cards" that had information ranging from signs and symptoms to pathophysiology that was largely equal depth to robbins. We were tested on this pathophysiology, and considering we didn't have any instruction on pathology or physiology yet, that was nuts. The instructors, while very nice and caring, are incredibly unorganized. There were a handful of times we'd have a lab meeting in the afternoon and they'd post reading material THAT MORNING on blackboard. Recently we had a large block exam on a Monday morning followed by an EPC lab monday afternoon. Sunday night the posted like a 35+ page journal reading for us to complete and we were quizzed on it. I didn't read a damn page.

With that said, I feel my physical exam skills are where they need to be and instruction in that regard has been decent. Talking to friend at other schools, my complaints aren't unique to DCOM. But it's a giant pain in the ass at times. All other classes are great, tests are fair, and professors are generally very good - with the exception of a few. I swear to god one of our physiology professors is so good that he could teach cardiovascular physiology to a house cat. Another one struggled to teach respiratory physiology to a group of smart medical students.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I'm a first year at DCOM, so I can comment on the clinical medicine course. It's a cluster****.

It's truly my only gripe about the school. It's as if we're guinea pigs and they're constantly changing crap around whenever they feel like it. First semester we had "disease cards" that had information ranging from signs and symptoms to pathophysiology that was largely equal depth to robbins. We were tested on this pathophysiology, and considering we didn't have any instruction on pathology or physiology yet, that was nuts. The instructors, while very nice and caring, are incredibly unorganized. There were a handful of times we'd have a lab meeting in the afternoon and they'd post reading material THAT MORNING on blackboard. Recently we had a large block exam on a Monday morning followed by an EPC lab monday afternoon. Sunday night the posted like a 35+ page journal reading for us to complete and we were quizzed on it. I didn't read a damn page.

With that said, I feel my physical exam skills are where they need to be and instruction in that regard has been decent. Talking to friend at other schools, my complaints aren't unique to DCOM. But it's a giant pain in the ass at times. All other classes are great, tests are fair, and professors are generally very good - with the exception of a few. I swear to god one of our physiology professors is so good that he could teach cardiovascular physiology to a house cat. Another one struggled to teach respiratory physiology to a group of smart medical students.

Have a few questions myself about LMU-DCOM.

Will the change in board study time come during your year or will it be the next? Will there still be required activities during this time (read something about this from another commenter)?

What do the students do for clinical research? I wonder about this since Harrogate is really rural. Does the school provide adequate opportunities within Harrogate or do the student try to find research opportunities in the hospitals/medical centers at Knoxville?

 

[Mehd School]

Have a few questions myself about LMU-DCOM.

Will the change in board study time come during your year or will it be the next? Will there still be required activities during this time (read something about this from another commenter)?

What do the students do for clinical research? I wonder about this since Harrogate is really rural. Does the school provide adequate opportunities within Harrogate or do the student try to find research opportunities in the hospitals/medical centers at Knoxville?

After viewing the MS2 online schedule I can say that the extended board studying time is implemented starting this year. It looks like there are a few activities (such as OPP lab), but its not much at all. I'm extremely happy we have an administration that values student feedback so much.

As far as clinical research goes, I know of a fellow who is doing some at UT in knoxville. He's not taking the normal class load, as he's between year 2 and 3. I haven't heard much in the way about clinical research, but do have a few friends working on projects with the clinical professors. We're all to busy for it right now, so I'm sure it will come up more this summer. I definitely would be hesitant to choose DCOM if you want your future to be research focused. We have are more clinical medicine focused than we are with academic medicine.

 

[MiaMia14]

After viewing the MS2 online schedule I can say that the extended board studying time is implemented starting this year. It looks like there are a few activities (such as OPP lab), but its not much at all. I'm extremely happy we have an administration that values student feedback so much.

As far as clinical research goes, I know of a fellow who is doing some at UT in knoxville. He's not taking the normal class load, as he's between year 2 and 3. I haven't heard much in the way about clinical research, but do have a few friends working on projects with the clinical professors. We're all to busy for it right now, so I'm sure it will come up more this summer. I definitely would be hesitant to choose DCOM if you want your future to be research focused. We have are more clinical medicine focused than we are with academic medicine.

I also know a few people that have done a research rotation as well during 3rd/4th year but I'm not really sure what the logistics are of setting something like that up. They probably met someone willing to do research with them while on a previous rotation, I doubt DCOM would be able to help you much with it.

 

[schwasted589]

Have a few questions myself about LMU-DCOM.

Will the change in board study time come during your year or will it be the next? Will there still be required activities during this time (read something about this from another commenter)?

What do the students do for clinical research? I wonder about this since Harrogate is really rural. Does the school provide adequate opportunities within Harrogate or do the student try to find research opportunities in the hospitals/medical centers at Knoxville?

I"m a 2nd year so I can speak about this.

They changed the board study schedule around for us to give us more time. Which seems great in theory, but very few people have been able to get any studying in with the ridiculous amount of work we suddenly have piled on top because they crammed things together. EPC in general is irritating. Don't get me wrong, it's a lot better 2nd year and the professors really want to make sure you're on your A game on rotations BUT it's really annoying to have to sit there and do weekly quizzes on random things when I could be spending that time studying for boards. We do have 6 weeks of "dedicated" board studying (with 1 class per week for 4 of those weeks) so I guess it's better than its been.

I'm not very interested in research but I know of people that are working with professors. I was considering doing some research and faculty is very open and helpful with that if that's what you're interested in. I can't speak to the number of opportunities because I didn't pursue it very far but I'd assume if you were realllly into it, you could figure it out with your advisor.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I"m a 2nd year so I can speak about this.

They changed the board study schedule around for us to give us more time. Which seems great in theory, but very few people have been able to get any studying in with the ridiculous amount of work we suddenly have piled on top because they crammed things together. EPC in general is irritating. Don't get me wrong, it's a lot better 2nd year and the professors really want to make sure you're on your A game on rotations BUT it's really annoying to have to sit there and do weekly quizzes on random things when I could be spending that time studying for boards. We do have 6 weeks of "dedicated" board studying (with 1 class per week for 4 of those weeks) so I guess it's better than its been.

I'm not very interested in research but I know of people that are working with professors. I was considering doing some research and faculty is very open and helpful with that if that's what you're interested in. I can't speak to the number of opportunities because I didn't pursue it very far but I'd assume if you were realllly into it, you could figure it out with your advisor.

Thanks for the info.

I remember their being a deadline for the COMLEX. Is there a break between this time and rotations? If so, how much and do people use it to study for the USMLE (meaning extra time)?

 

[WalkingCorpse]

I swear to god one of our physiology professors is so good that he could teach cardiovascular physiology to a house cat. Another one struggled to teach respiratory physiology to a group of smart medical students.[/QUOTE]

Hahahaha I know exactly who you are referring to there.

 

[Mass Effect]

Tell us stories of the olden days. Did you guys have to walk uphill from the cafeteria to the library? Did you guys really study in that lecture room near Smith? It looks awfully small. What was it like having a relatively small class room? Was Independence as glamorous as it is now?

On a serious note the new Dean mostly works on the pre-clinical years. I doubt the 3rd and 4th year have changed too much. Any general advice for board prep or clinical years would be greatly appreciated.

Overall do you feel KCUMB gave you an adequate education when going into your clinical years? The lectures are pretty much the same just broken up into 1st and 2nd year now. How do you feel compared to your MD counterparts?

Well, first of all, which classroom is small? We were in Ricci and Classroom B, both of which accommodated over 250 students. Not sure whose measurement of "small" we're going by. As the other poster said, the opinion of those of us who graduated or are about to graduate really doesn't apply to you all since things have changed with the new administration. I loved my years in med school. Yes, there were things I would have changed and certain lecturers I didn't care for, but overall, I think I received a fantastic education that got me to where I wanted to be. I still keep in touch with many of my professors and faculty, including several of my third-year preceptors. If you have any specific questions, let me know.

 

[HuskyPride149]

Any pros and cons on UNECOM ?

 

[Mehd School]

Thanks for the info.

I remember their being a deadline for the COMLEX. Is there a break between this time and rotations? If so, how much and do people use it to study for the USMLE (meaning extra time)?

This may have changed, but when I interviewed at DCOM, they said that the COMLEX deadline was around June 15th, then a mandatory month of vacation followed shortly after. A second year above stated that this year it is June 10th.

I'm not a huge fan of the step 1 deadline business. I've asked around to quite a few faculty members, and they weren't aware that the vast majority of medical schools in the US don't have this deadline. DCOM has an incredibly high Step 1 pass %, so there is no practical reason for them to set such a firm deadline. A friend of mine at a state MD school took his Step 1 on Friday, and begun rotations the following monday. I'm not saying that's a better situation, but DCOM's passing % and that schools passing % is identical, and they're making it just fine. I understand their concern that if you fail step 1 you need to be pulled from a rotation to retake. But if there are that few people that fail, it really is a non-issue.

 

[IslandStyle808]

This may have changed, but when I interviewed at DCOM, they said that the COMLEX deadline was around June 15th, then a mandatory month of vacation followed shortly after. A second year above stated that this year it is June 10th.

I'm not a huge fan of the step 1 deadline business. I've asked around to quite a few faculty members, and they weren't aware that the vast majority of medical schools in the US don't have this deadline. DCOM has an incredibly high Step 1 pass %, so there is no practical reason for them to set such a firm deadline. A friend of mine at a state MD school took his Step 1 on Friday, and begun rotations the following monday. I'm not saying that's a better situation, but DCOM's passing % and that schools passing % is identical, and they're making it just fine. I understand their concern that if you fail step 1 you need to be pulled from a rotation to retake. But if there are that few people that fail, it really is a non-issue.

Really appreciate the responses.

The concern for me is scoring as high as possible. From what has been stated on the forums, the best amount of self-study time is 6 weeks. It is not really a deal breaker for me, but is a plus.

As you were mentioning before about the date, it seems like June 9th is the last day to take the COMLEX. However, the semester seems to end around 9 days earlier than the last year. Not sure what this means in terms of self study time?

http://www.lmunet.edu/dcom/academics/calendar.shtml

Thanks again for your replies, been really helpful.

 

[Matrix0992]

Any review on ACOM or Touro NV?

 

[user3]

Any review on ACOM or Touro NV?

definitely pick TUN if those are your options.

 

[drshmerk]

Can someone write and recent review for Rowan-SOM and GA-PCOM?

bump. please do a Rowan-SOM review

 

[Eokpar02]

Touro COM NYC

Pros: Very little time commitment. Second year classes are only 3 days a week.

Cons: Way too expensive relative to what you get. School should be in the few thousands per year not 40 thousand per year.

 

[Mjolner]

Touro COM NYC

Pros: Very little time commitment. Second year classes are only 3 days a week.

Cons: Way too expensive relative to what you get. School should be in the few thousands per year not 40 thousand per year.

How do you wade through all the ms2 material in only three days a week?

 

[Eokpar02]

How do you wade through all the ms2 material in only three days a week?

You teach yourself everything, just the way I like it. Touro COM teaches to the COMLEX. The module system we have is shaped like First Aid. All lectures and powerpoints are on blackboard. I couldn't imagine going to school with any other teaching system.

 

[DrEnderW]

Touro COM NYC

Pros: Very little time commitment. Second year classes are only 3 days a week.

Cons: Way too expensive relative to what you get. School should be in the few thousands per year not 40 thousand per year.

Really? I couldn't possibly disagree more.

Touro is a mandatory attendance school in that every single day you're graded with quizzes. I'm not here to say it's a pro or con, but compared to other med schools the attendance is at the high end, especially MS1.

First year there are tests essentially every 4 weeks out of 5, meaning Monday's exams with Tues-Fri graded class. Second year has tests every 2-3 Mondays with class Tues-Thursday. Wednesday is 9-5 sometimes. That is not minimal time commitment especially compared to non-mandatory attendance places.

 

[DrEnderW]

How do you wade through all the ms2 material in only three days a week?

Videos and lectures are watched on your own time. Lectures aren't traditional - they are iClicker quizzes and discussions covering the material you were suppose to have covered before that day.

 

[Eokpar02]

Really? I couldn't possibly disagree more.

Touro is a mandatory attendance school in that every single day you're graded with quizzes. I'm not here to say it's a pro or con, but compared to other med schools the attendance is at the high end, especially MS1.

First year there are tests essentially every 4 weeks out of 5, meaning Monday's exams with Tues-Fri graded class. Second year has tests every 2-3 Mondays with class Tues-Thursday. Wednesday is 9-5 sometimes. That is not minimal time commitment especially compared to non-mandatory attendance places.

Okay, I don't attend the clickers and I didn't count the exams as classes. MS1 I had an insane amount of free time. I read lots of novels, went on trips, etc.. Without board study this year, I would have had even more time to study.

 

[DocEspana]

Drove past my alma mater and thought I'd comment. funny to see it recently discussed here:

TouroCOM NY
Pro - Apparently still extant.
Con - Still looks pretty ugly from the outside
Pro - Pretty on the inside
Con - I can't actually confirm the above thing, I was last there meeting up with some Touro people for completely unrelated things about a year ago.
Pro - Has a really good reputation in the NYC area (no. for real)
Con - After living in NYC you wont want to live anywhere except for major cities.
Pro - I graduated from there
Con - They let me graduate.

 

[Kevin Baker]

COMP

Curriculum: During the preclinical years generally we take one basic science, OMM, clinical medicine, and integrated care or holistic class at a time. Part of basic science classes, “small groups”, has you meeting with 5-7 other students, most being fellow DOs but some DPTs. The small groups are decided early on and you can make your own group or be assigned. These groups last during the pre clinical years though there is an option to switch if rapport is an issue. Small groups were fun and a great way to meet classmates early on.

The basic science classes can go from 4 to 8 hours of lecture a day. OMM and the clinical class are once a week for a few hours. The integrated or holistic class can be similar. Major tests occur about every other week though there can be quizzes daily pending the class. We start off with anatomy, then head and neck anatomy, then a biochem class. Second semester has an infectious disease class then we move onto systems (hemonc, neuro, psych, musculoskeletal). 2nd year is done in the systems format and we do more of the same. Class rigor significantly slows down second semester and you have more time to study for boards. There are also more broad and clinical classes such as pediatrics, geriatrics and Emergency Medicine.

OMM mostly consists of the lab component with a lecture in the lab though not always. We do have a week of straight cranial (ugh) but that's the low point and cranial week reviews head and neck anatomy well. Our clinical medicine class (ECM) varies but heavily emphasizes structured clinical exams (OSCEs) and you'll do dozens before rotations start which makes Comlex 2 PE much more comfortable. The integrated classes consist of an interprofessional education class modeled off the 1health model pioneered at U Minnesota. Various specialties are represented in another small group consisting of pharmacy, podiatry, nursing, physical therapy, dentists, and vets. A case is given which you discuss your field's perspective and input and a licensed professional in one of the above fields leads the discussion. Second year these cases are often discussed online. We also have a volunteer duty class, which doesn’t take up much time, and does look good on the CV. Often people do health fairs at local organizations.

Lectures are not mandatory except for OMM and clinical medicine and the interprofessional classes. There can be quizzes during regular classes so you can lose points by not being there but quizzes are almost always announced in advance. Classes are recorded and easy enough to download, usually going up within 4 hours of being broadcast. Grading is honors\pass\fail with pass being 70%. This is not true pass-fail and there is internal ranking. In fact I’d say rankings are skewed as some people have taken some of these classes previously. Generally class averages are 80% and can be curved upwards if the class does poorly. COMP doesn't tend to fail a lot of people and will help work around issues such as letting one take a test later. I believe there is always a summer remediation option and you only repeat the year if you fail X amount of credits where X is more than 2 classes, or fail the remediation. Remediation I hear is much easier than the normal class and I can only think of one person who had to be kicked out and maybe half a dozen who were held back.

3rd year has a mandatory shelf and clinical exam per rotation. These are done once every 3 months when you go to campus for a week. There are also occasionally required case conferences and\or OMM requirements for current 3rd years.

4th year just has some easy online classes to do.

We also have a student clinic many people enjoy volunteering at.

Location: Pomona. We get some flak for the area but it's gotten much better in the last decade. There is crime, cars do get broken into, shootings happen nearby, but coming from a big city, I felt safe. Pomona itself has some cool hipster artsy areas and a good music scene. The mountains are a quick drive away. Downtown Los Angeles is 40 minutes without traffic. We're close to an airport. The Inland Empire is east of us and isn't the most desirable area to live. There are a lot of colleges nearby and lots of young people but Pomona is not typical big city life; plenty doable for four years with more rural options with affordable houses for those who like that. Weather is perfect.

Cost: ~54K. Expensive. Scholarships aren't great. Cost of attendance is inflated but ranges from 79-87 k per year. I believe we were recently named the med school with the highest average graduate indebtedness. I have no idea what justifies that.

Faculty: Some are great and some are mediocre. Bad ones tend to be filtered out quickly. There are office hours. An advisor is assigned. No complaints here.

Reputation: Great locally. So many WesternU people stay in the inland empire and san gabriel valley. We're well known in SoCal and have made strides in NorCal. We're not well known nationally.

Clinical Rotations: I can't complain much. We have a lottery where you rank preferences. Every option has some awesome rotations and some subpar ones. Rank carefully as I feel I’m deficient in some areas and very strong in others. Out of my 11 3rd year rotations, 5 were at hospitals with affiliated residencies (often family med, not the specialty I was rotating in), 4 were preceptor based (1 was awesome and had residents, 3 were deficient and had residents), and 2 were electives. Fourth year is very flexible and you get to pick and schedule rotations as long as you have one month of EM, 1 month of a sub internship in medicine, and another month of subinternship surgery. This leaves tons of time for auditioning and you can do 4 months in one specialty. The two electives 3rd year are invaluable for getting early letters of recommendation. If scheduling fourth year rotations is a hassle you can use 3rd year locations and schedule through WesternU's rotations office. The rotations office was short staffed and it took them awhile to hire more people. Scheduling is a mess but doable. Our strongest site is Arrowhead Regional Medical Center, which works you hard, but you can do a lot. Some rotations may feel like shadowing a preceptor. A car is needed 3rd and 4th year.

Housing: Since class attendance isn't mandatory there is a lot of flexibility in where to live. Most people live in Claremont, Chino, Chino Hills, or Pomona. Expect to pay $900-$1200 per month for a one bedroom. I had roomies first year and paid about $525 per month. Claremont has a nice downtown area and is next door to Pomona. Chino and chino hills are suburban. There are a lot of colleges nearby and lots of young people but Pomona is not typical big city life; Plenty doable for four years with more rural options for those who like that. Weather is perfect.

Study areas: Meh. Poorly designed. There is adequate space on campus, the rooms are fine, technology is good, but rooms that can fit up to 8 students usually have only one student in them. These rooms can be reserved which sometimes means there is no space especially if the rooms are used for small groups for upper or under classmen. I studied at nearby libraries and coffee shops, which worked out well. Or study at home. The library itself has awesome electronic resources (most books) and we get uptodate mobile.

Social Scene: There are a good mix of people who grew up in the area, new transplants, and anything in between. I felt my classmates were very nice and genuine if a bit type A. Our social committee was great and we had class banquets and a boat ride. The average age at matriculation was 24 with some older classmates with a spouse and kids and some students coming straight from college. Overall the class is big enough to find your niche.

Local Hospitals: Arrowhead regional, Pomona Valley, Chino Valley.

Board Prep: 5 weeks off between classes and rotations. We take a mini step 2 clinical exam right after finals with 5 concomitant cases. If you fail a component and have to redo it (I think about 25% of students have to repeat something) this can eat into board prep time. We were given UWorld. I believe newer students are given Kaplan Q banks, which are integrated into basic science classes. We took a class COMSAE. No minimums are needed to take boards but if you do poorly you can delay boards. There is time second semester second year to rev up board review. I wish we had another week of study time but felt we had mostly adequate prep time and that second semester second year classes were high yield. Most students take USMLE step 1 and maybe 1\3 take step 2.

Residency: Like most DO schools, COMP emphasizes primary care particularly famil medicine. A significant proportion of the class goes into these primary care specialties. Our year had a ton of EM and Psych matches. There are always some students who match neurosurgery, optho, other surgical subspecialties, and those who try for derm. Arrowhead is a good resource if you vibe with the culture as they have some of these more competitive programs in house.

Adminstration: Avoid getting in trouble if possible. They are known as being sticklers and playing politics. Admin will help you if needed but it can be stressful and there are plenty of weird time consuming rules. Of note there have been some changes higher up (new dean, old president retiring) so this may change and I do feel admin has started listening to students more via town hall meetings and the like. Though I also feel like students complain much more than warranted so there’s that.

Overall: I'm satisfied with the level of education received. The cost was exorbitant. I’m happy with where I matched and feel COMP gave me the autonomy with non-mandatory classes, rotation scheduling, and electives, to accomplish what I wanted. If I could do it over again the only other DO school I’d pick above COMP is TCOM due solely to cost. If you want to stay in California as a DO I’d recommend here then Touro or AZCOM. Of note it’s difficult for anyone to go into the top CA programs, DO or not, but the DO bias is particularly strong here at some UCs. Otherwise I see COMP as comparable to most other established DO schools. I'd recommend US MD schools over COMP simply due to DO bias but COMP will get you where you want to go if its an average competitiveness specialty in a non super competitive program. Coming in to school I picked COMP due to the perceived rotation strength and while it is nowhere near as strong as USC or UCLA in that department you get lots of ward based rotations (with residents in primary care fields) and flexibility fourth year to do what you like. TLDR as compared to other DO schools.


Curriculum: High Pass
Location: High Pass
Cost: Low Pass
Financial Aid: Pass
Faculty: Pass
Reputation: High Pass
Technology: Honors
Study Space/Library: Pass
Library technology/Resources: Honors
Rotations: High Pass
Social: Honors
Hospitals: High Pass
Post Grad: High Pass
Cafeteria Food: Pass
Cafeteria Prices: Low Pass

Overall Grade: High Pass

 

[AlteredScale]

@chizledfrmstone or @Stagg737 would you guys do one for KCU?

 

[vernhart]

someone care to do Marian? I have heard great things so far but not any thorough assessment

 

[Mr Kenobi]

someone care to do Marian? I have heard great things so far but not any thorough assessment

I may do one after we get further into rotations starting in a couple months. A bit premature right now with having only completed preclinical years and with the faculty overhaul that is occurring (yes, already)--so what I say may not even be relevant for incoming folks.

The problem with participating in these things is that if you only say good things, odds are you are lying. When you say bad things, people get really butt hurt that you are bashing the school or airing dirty laundry re. LUCOM thread.

 

[AlteredScale]

I may do one after we get further into rotations starting in a couple months. A bit premature right now with having only completed preclinical years and with the faculty overhaul that is occurring (yes, already)--so what I say may not even be relevant for incoming folks.

The problem with participating in these things is that if you only say good things, odds are you are lying. When you say bad things, people get really butt hurt that you are bashing the school or airing dirty laundry re. LUCOM thread.

Jeeze faculty overhaul already!?

 

[xBODOMx]

.

 

[67552931811]

nvm.

 

[67552931811]

nvm x2.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

Jeeze faculty overhaul already!?

The basic science faculty is solid at MU-COM--with a few exceptions of course. They have some of the best in their respective fields--Richard Klabunde for CV phys...dude literally wrote the book. Neuro block is taught by IU's neuro faculty etc

The "faculty overhaul" consists of some shuffling of power around in the OMM dept (which is probably a good thing but who knows) and a few clinical faculty that have left for various reasons. One took a PD job at a program in Michigan and the other two are a married couple. These clinical faculty who left had a lot of responsibility tho when it came to the clinical medicine stuff in the first 2 years tho...however the clinical faculty that remains is really solid. So maybe "overhaul" is too strong a descriptor. But some changes for sure. I feel that all of these changes will only make the program better tho to be honest.

I've only had one regret of this previous cycle, and that was not going to my MU-COM interview. This makes me feel a little better. I'm always surprised at how much praise it gets, but it's still a brand new school and I don't get why everyone acts like it's the best thing to happen to the DO world.

You don't get why everyone acts like its the best thing to happen to DO world cause you didn't come to your interview. Too bad you missed out. haha just kidding. Marian has the right ingredients to become a seriously legit contender in the upper echelon of DO schools tho. But obviously it will be up to the administration if they want to take it there. There is only 1 other med school in the state (granted it is huge) and there is a cooperation between the two schools. My school assigned sports medicine mentor is an MD from said MD school. The hospital networks affiliated with MU-COM for rotations are at some of the best hospitals in the state. But as you mention, it is a newer school and things are unpredictable, so who knows.

 

[smooki]

Pro - Has a really good reputation in the NYC area (no. for real)

It's nice to hear this! Any chance you can elaborate on this/share some experiences in this respect? I'm starting soon and love hearing good things about this school, I like it more and more each day.