Pursuing JD, then MD?

[MasqueOfMagnus]

So I need someone to tell me if this possible plan is crazy, or whether it actually makes sense. TL;DR: I want to pursue the MD/JD route, but instead of a combined program, I want to do JD, then work for a couple years, then MD.

I came into college wanting to be a physician. I then worked as a scribe in a Level I Trauma Center, and that opened my eyes to some of the legal aspects of medicine that I found interesting - insurance, charting, differing practice scope between mid-levels and physicians, various ethical issues, etc. Since then, I've been hoping to pursue a combined MD/JD program.

By my count, there are only about a dozen of these programs, some of which you cannot dual apply to, but in general including Vanderbilt, Mayo Clinic/Arizona State, Pitt, Penn, Miami, Baylor/Houston, Texas Tech, Southern Illinois, etc.

The problem is that I am far more competitive for law school than medical school and could apply in the upcoming fall - taking one gap year. If I wanted to be competitive for these combined programs, mostly at more competitive medical schools, I would need a minimum of two gap years - I've included some background below, but I would need to improve my volunteering record, study for the MCAT, take Biochemistry, and retake Orgo II at minimum.

A combined MD/JD program only saves me 1 year, shortening the schooling from 7 to 6. Or, I could do one gap year, matriculate into a JD program, and then at some point afterwards, go to medical school. Maybe I work for one or two years after law school to get some experience in, maybe not, but that would make more financial sense for me.

My current background:
I'm a current senior at a T20 undergrad with a major in a Bio-adjacent field and a minor in a humanities field. I have not yet taken the MCAT, and the only MCAT studying I've done has been some very light content review - no diagnostic yet. I scored a 165 on a diagnostic LSAT, and after a week of studying I am averaging in the ~170-173 range.

Current cGPA: 3.67 (Expected after this semester: ~3.70)
Current BCPM GPA: 3.42 (Expected after this semester: ~3.52)

Current LSAC GPA (accounts for A+'s): 3.71 (Expected after this semester: 3.72-73)

All of GPA's reflect an upward trend, with a blemish being reflected in a C in Orgo I and C- in Orgo II.

Of note, these grades include completing Gen Chem I & II, Gen Bio I & II, Physics I & II, Organic Chemistry I & II, Psych, Soc, Comp Sci, Calc I - III, Bioethics, and multiple upper div bio classes.

Due to some mental issues that I hope not to have to disclose on my application, I scored a C in Organic Chem I, and a C- in Organic Chem II, so I know I will need to retake Organic II. I have not yet taken any Biochemistry courses.

I have approximately ~600-700 clinical hours spread over a year, and ~100 volunteer hours spread over three. I also have moderate research experience - one behavior research course, where we each wrote what amounted to a small thesis with original research, and I will be completing a capstone project and poster presentation from ~400-500 hours of genetics research over the past two years.

I am planning to spend this upcoming gap year working a clinical job (probably as an EMT) and volunteering on weekends (hoping to be a CASA). Perhaps I can shadow more as well, but I do have adequate shadowing hours as well.

As far as debt goes, I'm not too worried - if I can score a 170+ on the LSAT, that puts me in play for significant scholarships at good law schools - maybe not Columbia, but the schools in play range from Arizona State and Florida to Michigan and UCLA according to the LSATDemon scholarships estimators and LSData past applicant outcomes.

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[LunaOri]

You could take the one gap year, then apply to both MD/JD and JD-only.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

If you aren’t independently wealthy or getting full scholarships for both, I don’t think it’s worth it

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Have you talked with anyone who is doing what you aspire to do?

Here's some help.

Oh, the places you’ll go with an MD (and more)

Today’s physicians are increasingly bringing their medical expertise to a range of settings that aren’t strictly clinical.

www.aamc.org

I was going to ask why not go for a masters in bioethics.

 

[Med Ed]

So I need someone to tell me if this possible plan is crazy, or whether it actually makes sense. TL;DR: I want to pursue the MD/JD route, but instead of a combined program, I want to do JD, then work for a couple years, then MD.

I came into college wanting to be a physician. I then worked as a scribe in a Level I Trauma Center, and that opened my eyes to some of the legal aspects of medicine that I found interesting - insurance, charting, differing practice scope between mid-levels and physicians, various ethical issues, etc. Since then, I've been hoping to pursue a combined MD/JD program.

You need to sit down and define what you would actually do with both the MD and JD degrees. Getting a second doctorate because you find some of the legal aspects of medicine interesting is akin to swatting a fly with a Buick. Even if you do get the JD, work for a couple of years and then successfully apply to medical school, you're spending a decade of your life, ending it with a pile of debt and one doctorate that you will almost certainly under-utilize.

 

[toastedbutter]

I'm in a similar situation but planning for MD/JD. I think to take the best path forward you need to put into place your motivations and eventual goals. Are you more interested in the law side or the medicine side? Then move from there.

For example, My priority is medicine. I want to work in academic medicine, and I want patient care to be an important part of my future career. On top of that, I am interested in a lot of health care and public health law. However, because my priority is medicine, I'm putting 90% of my effort towards getting accepted to medical school, and then doing what I can to hopefully secure law school admission too. If I only get into medical school, I'll find other ways to satisfy my law interests through master's programs or practical work. Of course, it won't be as good as a JD, but at least my primary motivation of pursuing medicine will be satisfied.

If your primary motivation and career goal is medical, then I would suggest doing what someone else recommended which is to take a gap year and then apply for MD/JD. Going to law school first will be really time consuming, and you'll probably have to take a gap year after law school to finish up whatever you need to apply to medical school. Chances are, by the time you finish law school, your age and debt might be big enough factors to draw you away from medicine entirely. If your primary motivation through your experiences has changed into medical law, then I would focus on going JD only. No need to be a doctor to make important contributions in the world of healthcare law!

 

[Doctor-S]

[NOTE: In response to the initial question you posted elsewhere on SDN, and to which I provided an answer about JD degree, MD degree, and JD-MD degree programs, please consider the supplemental points set forth below. I am unable to copy my original response to your other question (or your responses thereto) in this forum.]

Simply stated:

Any individual can apply for the JD degree first, followed by the MD degree thereafter, or vice versa, if they are competitive for both degrees.

Yes, it can be done, and I am aware of some individuals who have done the same, and who have ultimately earned the JD degree followed by the MD degree, or vice versa, in a sequential manner. To be honest, this type of dual degree career track is more often completed by individuals who have completed the MD/DO degree first, and then later, they have chosen to earn the JD/LLB degree.

However, this does NOT mean that same individual will actually be accepted to any JD program, or to any MD program, in the first place. FIrst, the individual must be competitive for both degrees, based on the merits of their stats and application. It's much more complicated than your "original question."

Right now, you are assuming you expect to be accepted to law school, based on your current stats. Maybe yes, and maybe no. Arguably, it's much easier to be accepted to law school, than to medical school. There is also a collection of law schools in the USA that offer modified part-time JD programs, as well as full-time JD programs. Plus, law school graduates also have to pass the bar examination in at least one state if they want to become a licensed attorney, with the exception of Wisconsin ABA law school graduates.

By your own admission, you are not currently competitive for medical school. So, your situation is more complicated than a simple "yes" or "no" response to your "original question."

You must first be competitive for admission to medical school before you can even entertain the idea of applying for the MD degree, after completion of the JD degree. For all we know, you will not complete the BCPM pre-reqs, nor take the MCAT, nor eventually want to apply to medical school anyway. It's your choice (whether you complete these things) in the future.

Right now, you seem to want the best of both outcomes (i.e., a JD degree, and then an MD degree), even though by your own admission, you have stated your real goal is to become an MD practicing physician, and not a JD practicing attorney. If you want to become a licensed attorney, you can apply to law school right now, based on your current stats. On the other hand, if you want to become a physician, you can apply to medical school, after you complete the pre-reqs and MCAT, etc. It's your choice.

For these reasons, inter alia, it is exceedingly challenging for me to provide you with an unconditional affirmative (or an unconditional negative) response to your "original question."

TL/DR: Any individual can apply for the JD degree first, followed by the MD degree thereafter, or vice versa, if they are actually competitive for both degrees. It's their choice, but there are no guarantees any individual will be admitted to either program. It's their choice, and I already suggested a gap year, etc.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

You could take the one gap year, then apply to both MD/JD and JD-only.

Yes, that would be the ideal plan, I think. However, my understanding is that I will need to retake Organic II, take Biochem, and the MCAT, in that next gap year, and that doesn't seem possible along with volunteering and working. This would necessitate multiple gap years, which is what is drawing me to sequentially completing them (plus, the scholarships of JD-only programs).

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

If you aren’t independently wealthy or getting full scholarships for both, I don’t think it’s worth it

Not independently wealthy. If I apply (and I don't know that I will), I do not think I would attend law school without full or near-full scholarships.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

Have you talked with anyone who is doing what you aspire to do?

Here's some help.

Oh, the places you’ll go with an MD (and more)

Today’s physicians are increasingly bringing their medical expertise to a range of settings that aren’t strictly clinical.

www.aamc.org

I was going to ask why not go for a masters in bioethics.

Yep! And honestly, I'm not entirely sure yet, which is why I'm also asking for advice. Thanks for the link! A master's in bioethics does seem interesting - I'll look into it.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

You need to sit down and define what you would actually do with both the MD and JD degrees. Getting a second doctorate because you find some of the legal aspects of medicine interesting is akin to swatting a fly with a Buick. Even if you do get the JD, work for a couple of years and then successfully apply to medical school, you're spending a decade of your life, ending it with a pile of debt and one doctorate that you will almost certainly under-utilize.

Ok yes, there's a lot more to the motivation, but that was just a synopsis. You may still be right on the under-utilization, though. I appreciate your advice.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

I'm in a similar situation but planning for MD/JD. I think to take the best path forward you need to put into place your motivations and eventual goals. Are you more interested in the law side or the medicine side? Then move from there.

For example, My priority is medicine. I want to work in academic medicine, and I want patient care to be an important part of my future career. On top of that, I am interested in a lot of health care and public health law. However, because my priority is medicine, I'm putting 90% of my effort towards getting accepted to medical school, and then doing what I can to hopefully secure law school admission too. If I only get into medical school, I'll find other ways to satisfy my law interests through master's programs or practical work. Of course, it won't be as good as a JD, but at least my primary motivation of pursuing medicine will be satisfied.

If your primary motivation and career goal is medical, then I would suggest doing what someone else recommended which is to take a gap year and then apply for MD/JD. Going to law school first will be really time consuming, and you'll probably have to take a gap year after law school to finish up whatever you need to apply to medical school. Chances are, by the time you finish law school, your age and debt might be big enough factors to draw you away from medicine entirely. If your primary motivation through your experiences has changed into medical law, then I would focus on going JD only. No need to be a doctor to make important contributions in the world of healthcare law!

This is exactly why I'm asking on here - I'm putting my effort towards medicine. It just so happens that I'm more competitive for law than medicine, which is prompting the question.

"Am I more interested in the law side or the medicine side?" - I'm honestly not certain. I know I need to figure that out in the coming months, though.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

Nontrad here leaving a legal career to start med school next fall. Frankly, I can't think of any good reason to set out with the goal of obtaining both degrees. Please ask yourself whether this dual degree would honestly benefit you professionally in the long run or whether your interest in doing this is influenced by (1) some idea of perceived prestige or (2) indecisiveness about what you want to do.

Lawyers practicing health/medical law do so with JDs only, and doctors who are involved in policy/ethics do so with MDs only (though I have no doubt that you could find a couple of exceptions... who most likely abandoned one degree in favor of the other). Getting a JD because you find some of the legal aspects of medicine interesting strikes me as foolhardy. If you want to be a doctor who dabbles in "insurance, charting, differing practice scope between mid-levels and physicians, various ethical issues," then go to medical school, keep yourself well-informed, and raise your hand when opportunities arise. An MPH or MBA would even be more helpful in getting you into rooms where these topics are discussed.

When I said "insurance, charting . . .", I meant the issues that I became aware of as a scribe. Regarding (1) - I'm under no impression that dual degrees increase prestige - my understanding is that it may even be the opposite, since many may think that it is just wasted time. Regarding (2) - I certainly am not certain about what I want to do yet, and am figuring that out. I appreciate your advice and point of view.

Do you mind if I ask if your JD was a barrier to you getting into medical school?

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

[NOTE: In response to the initial question you posted elsewhere on SDN, and to which I provided an answer about JD degree, MD degree, and JD-MD degree programs, please consider the supplemental points set forth below. I am unable to copy my original response to your other question (or your responses thereto) in this forum.]

Simply stated:

Any individual can apply for the JD degree first, followed by the MD degree thereafter, or vice versa, if they are competitive for both degrees.

Yes, it can be done, and I am aware of some individuals who have done the same, and who have ultimately earned the JD degree followed by the MD degree, or vice versa, in a sequential manner. To be honest, this type of dual degree career track is more often completed by individuals who have completed the MD/DO degree first, and then later, they have chosen to earn the JD/LLB degree.

However, this does NOT mean that same individual will actually be accepted to any JD program, or to any MD program, in the first place. FIrst, the individual must be competitive for both degrees, based on the merits of their stats and application. It's much more complicated than your "original question."

Right now, you are assuming you expect to be accepted to law school, based on your current stats. Maybe yes, and maybe no. Arguably, it's much easier to be accepted to law school, than to medical school. There is also a collection of law schools in the USA that offer modified part-time JD programs, as well as full-time JD programs. Plus, law school graduates also have to pass the bar examination in at least one state if they want to become a licensed attorney, with the exception of Wisconsin ABA law school graduates.

By your own admission, you are not currently competitive for medical school. So, your situation is more complicated than a simple "yes" or "no" response to your "original question."

You must first be competitive for admission to medical school before you can even entertain the idea of applying for the MD degree, after completion of the JD degree. For all we know, you will not complete the BCPM pre-reqs, nor take the MCAT, nor eventually want to apply to medical school anyway. It's your choice (whether you complete these things) in the future.

Right now, you seem to want the best of both outcomes (i.e., a JD degree, and then an MD degree), even though by your own admission, you have stated your real goal is to become an MD practicing physician, and not a JD practicing attorney. If you want to become a licensed attorney, you can apply to law school right now, based on your current stats. On the other hand, if you want to become a physician, you can apply to medical school, after you complete the pre-reqs and MCAT, etc. It's your choice.

For these reasons, inter alia, it is exceedingly challenging for me to provide you with an unconditional affirmative (or an unconditional negative) response to your "original question."

TL/DR: Any individual can apply for the JD degree first, followed by the MD degree thereafter, or vice versa, if they are actually competitive for both degrees. It's their choice, but there are no guarantees any individual will be admitted to either program. It's their choice, and I already suggested a gap year, etc.

Thank you for your advice. I was not intending to mean it as a yes or no in my case, but in a general case. Personally, the big blemish on my record for a medical application is the C's in Orgo. I can fix that on a gap year, I think, without doing a full post-bacc, but that is the main reason MD/JD combined is not on my mind - I'll be taking that extra year(s) anyway.

Definitely not asking for an unconditional affirmative/negative. Did not mean to phrase it that way, and I appreciate all your advice. Still, if I am understanding you right, pursuing JD will not shoot myself in the foot for pursuing MD later. Whether I should sounds like a different question that I need to answer.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

JD/ Soon to be MD here. Just don’t do it, unless you want to practice law.

I did JD at a t14 and MBA at a M7 and worked a lot in law and finance afterwards so my degrees give me a leg up in medicine. But if you don’t have the further work experience to support your degrees, they are useless and meaningless. I did get a lot of love while applying for med schools, but my stats were up there too.

Plus, I don’t think having a JD will enhance your MD chance if you just move from one degree to another.

 

[hec0201]

Yes, that would be the ideal plan, I think. However, my understanding is that I will need to retake Organic II, take Biochem, and the MCAT, in that next gap year, and that doesn't seem possible along with volunteering and working. This would necessitate multiple gap years, which is what is drawing me to sequentially completing them (plus, the scholarships of JD-only programs).

I’m not sure if this helps, but I applied successfully without organic II! As long as you have either Biochem or Organic II schools usually don’t care.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

I’m not sure if this helps, but I applied successfully without organic II! As long as you have either Biochem or Organic II schools usually don’t care.

That does help, thank you! With a C in Orgo I and C- in Orgo II, though, do you think it would be better to retake Orgo II? My reasoning is proving I can succeed in the class and getting the background for Biochem.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

JD/ Soon to be MD here. Just don’t do it, unless you want to practice law.

I did JD at a t14 and MBA at a M7 and worked a lot in law and finance afterwards so my degrees give me a leg up in medicine. But if you don’t have the further work experience to support your degrees, they are useless and meaningless.

Plus, I don’t think having a JD will enhance your MD chance if you just move from one degree to another.

That's why I was thinking of possibly working for a couple years post-JD before MD.

When you say your degrees give you a leg up in medicine, what do you mean? In general, practicing, or in the application process, or both?

I appreciate your advice - I still need to figure out exactly what I want to do.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

That's why I was thinking of possibly working for a couple years post-JD before MD.

When you say your degrees give you a leg up in medicine, what do you mean? In general, practicing, or in the application process, or both?

I appreciate your advice - I still need to figure out exactly what I want to do.

Coupled with substantial work experience, not just a couple years of associate work at a mid tier firm, I think that can help a lot. If I were you, if law is what you are aspiring to in the near future, I would only consider t14, even UCLA is not gonna cut it. Go to a t14, do really well (law school is cut throat) and get a top firm job for at least 4 years with some good probono work. Then that will be worth your time.

The advantage is in both applications and subsequent career in medicine. Because of my background, I got a lot of extra opportunities here at med school and met some powerful mentors who want to help me.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

Coupled with substantial work experience, not just a couple years of associate work at a mid tier firm, I think that can help a lot. If I were you, if law is what you are aspiring to in the near future, I would only consider t14, even UCLA is not gonna cut it. Go to a t14, do really well (law school is cut throat) and get a top firm job for at least 4 years with some good probono work. Then that will be worth your time.

The advantage is in both applications and subsequent career in medicine. Because of my background, I got a lot of extra opportunities here at med school and met some powerful mentors who want to help me.

Just so I understand correctly, though - is it that T14 is necessary, or that going to a school that gets you into BigLaw is necessary? I mentioned UCLA because according to LSATDemon's scholarships estimator, I have a decent chance a full ride there. According to LSData, though, my stats put me in play for Columbia and Penn - would just accrue some debt.

I appreciate your advice. Regarding the "top law firm job for at least 4 years . . ." - is that what you did?

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Just so I understand correctly, though - is it that T14 is necessary, or that going to a school that gets you into BigLaw is necessary? I mentioned UCLA because according to LSATDemon's scholarships estimator, I have a decent chance a full ride there. According to LSData, though, my stats put me in play for Columbia and Penn - would just accrue some debt.

I appreciate your advice. Regarding the "top law firm job for at least 4 years . . ." - is that what you did?

Only at t14’s you can freely interview with most top law firms on campus without a hard gpa cutoffs. At schools like UCLA, you need to clear the ranking and gpa hurdle before they allow you to interview on campus. OCI ( on campus interviews) is the only path to big law.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

Not a barrier at all. Arguably a waste of time and money though. I don't necessarily have regrets. I view it as just part of my journey. It will be of very limited use in medicine though, and I wouldn't choose the route again if I could travel back in time.

It's still quite unclear what career objective you think it served by obtaining both degrees.

Got it. Regarding career objectives, I'm still mulling this over and researching - the purpose in posting this thread was just to figure out if it's even possible. If I'd be shooting myself in the foot, then there is no career to pursue anyway. Thanks for your advice!

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

With your GPA, you need something like a 173 to be competitive at Columbia or Penn.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

Only at t14’s you can freely interview with most top law firms on campus without a hard gpa cutoffs. At schools like UCLA, you need to clear the ranking and gpa hurdle before they allow you to interview on campus. OCI ( on campus interviews) is the only path to big law.

Aha, makes sense. So then going BigLaw is really what is necessary (IF I decide to pursue JD first)? Would you mind elaborating on why that is, as opposed to pursuing medical malpractice law, etc.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

With your GPA, you need something like a 173 to be competitive at Columbia or Penn.

Yep - I scored a 165 on a diagnostic LSAT a couple weeks ago, and since then have scored a 173 on another practice test. The real deal is certainly different, but at the risk of sounding arrogant, I am confident that I can score above that after a couple of months of dedicated studying. I'm consistently missing 2-3 per section in general.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Aha, makes sense. So then going BigLaw is really what is necessary (IF I decide to pursue JD first)? Would you mind elaborating on why that is, as opposed to pursuing medical malpractice law, etc.

There’s a hierarchy of law jobs. Top is federal judicial clerkship, people who get that always have an outstanding offer to join a biglaw waiting for them. Then it’s the big law associate jobs. Then I will say it’s prestigious government jobs in DOJ and legislative branches( federal level preferred) and then you have malpractice and torts lawyers, aka ambulance chasers.

The hierarchy is there due to money and level of sophistication in the law. Malpractice is really just ******* torts. Very low level intellectually speaking.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Yep - I scored a 165 on a diagnostic LSAT a couple weeks ago, and since then have scored a 173 on another practice test. The real deal is certainly different, but at the risk of sounding arrogant, I am confident that I can score above that after a couple of months of dedicated studying. I'm consistently missing 2-3 per section in general.

173 isn’t so easy when you are under pressure.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

173 isn’t so easy when you are under pressure.

I understand that, yes. After a couple of months of studying, I think it's in play, though. In any case, I'm taking the approach of let's study for it and see what happens. Still, I appreciate your advice.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

There’s a hierarchy of law jobs. Top is federal judicial clerkship, people who get that always have an outstanding offer to join a biglaw waiting for them. Then it’s the big law associate jobs. Then I will say it’s prestigious government jobs in DOJ and legislative branches( federal level preferred) and then you have malpractice and torts lawyers, aka ambulance chasers.

The hierarchy is there due to money and level of sophistication in the law. Malpractice is really just ******* torts. Very low level intellectually speaking.

Sure, but how does any of that impact medical school admissions? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point - I apologize. What's the importance of BigLaw in this context?

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

What MasqueOfMagnus said. AT LEAST 4 years. I'd actually suggest 5-6 years. I found that my experience made people very interested in my story on the interview trail. But that was because I had a whole legal career, not because I went to law school or because I put in a "few years." Don't go to law school to get into medical school. I know... You haven't said that's the plan. I'm just putting it out there for anyone who might think it's a good idea.

Right yes - definitely not going to law school just to get into medical school. Definitely appreciate your putting that out there, still.

How did you manage to complete prerequisites during your legal career?

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Sure, but how does any of that impact medical school admissions? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point - I apologize. What's the importance of BigLaw in this context?

Because medicine is so prestige driven, more so than law. And people in medicine have a good grasp about legal prestige surprisingly. If you do some half-a$$ legal work, they will know.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

Because medicine is so prestige driven, more so than law. And people in medicine have a good grasp about legal prestige surprisingly. If you do some half-a$$ legal work, they will know.

Aha, makes sense! Thanks for your advice. So it sounds like IF I pursue MD/JD, even a combined program really isn't the best. Instead, what would be ideal is pursuing JD and a BigLaw career, then switching to medicine?

And if I don't get into a T14 or other law school with good BigLaw placement, it's not worth it?

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Aha, makes sense! Thanks for your advice. So it sounds like IF I pursue MD/JD, even a combined program really isn't the best. Instead, what would be ideal is pursuing JD and a BigLaw career, then switching to medicine?

And if I don't get into a T14 or other law school with good BigLaw placement, it's not worth it?

Can’t stress enough that for anyone thinking about putting 300k into a legal education plus the time and pain, t14 or go home. On the other hand, any USMD is good.

Combined programs are a terrible choice. Medicine and law require immediate commitment after school. You simply can’t do both after a combined program. You have diminished chance for residency if you don’t apply right away and no law firm will take you on if you don’t go there right after law school, barring a judicial clerkship gig.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

Masque is telling you the legal route that opens the most doors because you haven’t given any indication of what doors you want/need opened. No one knows what legal job you want to have for a “few years” or how you want to leverage that experience afterward.

Just to clear up some confusion, I'm Masque lol. Your concern is exactly why I was confused, since I was under the understanding from sriracha that BigLaw was important for some other reason.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

Can’t stress enough that for anyone thinking about putting 300k into a legal education plus the time and pain, t14 or go home. On the other hand, any USMD is good.

Got it. Thanks!

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Got it. Thanks!

to answer your question about why BigLaw. Its experience is coveted because you see the most sophisticated clients at those large firms and you deal with the most complicated legal issues. Most people will try to get a big law gig and then move on to in-house counsel at a major corporation, or a cushy government job afterwards. But all these jobs, in their job requirement, want people who have at least 4 to 6 years of experience in corporate law. That's why if you get out of law school without this kind of job, you are shut out of the top echelon of legal career right away, and YOU CAN NEVER RECOVER FROM THAT. That's why it's so so so important to go to a top law school.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

to answer your question about why BigLaw. Its experience is coveted because you see the most sophisticated clients at those large firms and you deal with the most complicated legal issues. Most people will try to get a big law gig and then move on to in-house counsel at a major corporation, or a cushy government job afterwards. But all these jobs, in their job requirement, want people who have at least 4 to 6 years of experience in corporate law. That's why if you get out of law school without this kind of job, you are shut out of the top echelon of legal career right away, and YOU CAN NEVER RECOVER FROM THAT. That's why it's so so so important to go to a top law school.

Got it, makes sense - thank you!

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

if you want to learn more about the legal world, go read abovethelaw.com

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I went the T3+biglaw route. As you can see from sriracha’s explanation, it is the prudent route if you are looking to navigate a career in law. If you’re looking to navigate ANY career in medicine though, you don’t need biglaw… you don’t need a legal career… you don’t need law school.

Sriracha is right that you can’t do both as a career simultaneously and combined programs likely hurt you chances at biglaw or competitive specialties vs applicants that seem more committed to those career routes.

I’m going to bow out if this conversation, but I wish you the best and hope you realize that means picking one

completely agree with you. I happened to do all of that before finally deciding on medicine. It was never my intention to do all the degrees in this life to begin with. Some med school interviewers did joke with me about my triple crown of professional degrees. But I still feel most at home in medicine after all. I wish you a good career in medicine!

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

completely agree with you. I happened to do all of that before finally deciding on medicine. It was never my intention to do all the degrees in this life to begin with. Some med school interviewers did joke with me about my triple crown of professional degrees. But I still feel most at home in medicine after all. I wish you a good career in medicine!

Triple crown...? Do you have a PhD too? 😂

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Hold up

I know you're bowing out so someone else please - doing a combined program will hurt someone who is more focused on the medicine side (i.e. no interest in a legal only career, even for a portion of my life)???

Let me just say this. If your end goal is practicing medicine, just don't do a JD, a combined program without legal experience afterwards is just weird. If you want to be a lawyer, then why getting an MD to begin with? I think a combine program (as rare as they should be) is a complete waste for either career you want to pursue eventually. If you have a itch for legal issues but you want to be a doctor, read a book about those issues or take an online course in constitutional law (which is basically the only thing that's remotely interesting in law school, imo). No need to slave through 3 years of constant worry about your grades and ranking and then 7 weeks of Bar/Bri and then 2400 hours of billable hours at a sweat shop like Skadden.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Triple crown...? Do you have a PhD too? 😂

I have an MBA. PhD is not a professional degree.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

I have an MBA. PhD is not a professional degree.

Hence my confusion - thanks anyway!

 

[hec0201]

That does help, thank you! With a C in Orgo I and C- in Orgo II, though, do you think it would be better to retake Orgo II? My reasoning is proving I can succeed in the class and getting the background for Biochem.

I think it would certainly show you can improve in the class and succeed in the subject matter. I took Biochemistry without organic II and got an A, although I had to study a bit more than my friends who have taken O-Chem II. If the classes are the factor for taking another gap year, I am not sure it may be worth it.

However, this is not professional advice, just my opinion.

 

[LunaOri]

With your specific interests, you might consider an MPP instead of a JD—it can be a nice adjunct to the MD for someone who wants to be a leader/policymaker. Check out Kennedy School at Harvard.

 

[Doctor-S]

Here is another suggestion:

1. You can enter the search terms "MD JD" on a business community website (e.g., LinkedIn).

2. In so doing, you will find profiles for multiple individuals who have earned JD-MD degrees.

3. These individuals didn't just "think" about doing it ... they actually "did" it.

4. Then, you can look at the professional experiences and work history of the JD-MDs to get a better idea of *which types of work* some of these individuals have chosen to do in their respective professional careers with their JD-MD degrees.

5. Maybe some of them are doing the same type of work that you (currently) imagine yourself doing in the distant future? Or maybe not?

6. It's advisable to take your time and figure things out for yourself before jumping into the unknown, and regretting it later.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

I happen to have a law degree and I practiced law for a while. For the vast majority of people going to law school is a really bad idea. Law school is vastly more expensive than it should be, and the employment prospects are miserable. The only people who should go are brilliant people who have an incurable and unbearable itch to go. This article by Professor Campos of the University of Colorado Law School lays it out perfectly.

"The Crisis of the American Law School" by Paul Campos

The economist Herbert Stein once remarked that if something cannot go on forever, it will stop. Over the past four decades, the cost of legal education in America has seemed to belie this aphorism: it has gone up relentlessly. Private law school tuition increased by a factor of four in real...

repository.law.umich.edu

It should also be noted that simply having a law degree and passing a bar exam do not make someone competent to practice law. It takes years of experience and even then some people just can't handle it. Being a lawyer is not a sideline.

 

[2024 or 5 ?]

When I asked people about this years ago, I was told this would make me both a mediocre doctor and a mediocre lawyer.

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

When I asked people about this years ago, I was told this would make me both a mediocre doctor and a mediocre lawyer.

This is my conclusion now after seeing these responses and reading about this more. Thank yoU!

 

[MasqueOfMagnus]

I happen to have a law degree and I practiced law for a while. For the vast majority of people going to law school is a really bad idea. Law school is vastly more expensive than it should be, and the employment prospects are miserable. The only people who should go are brilliant people who have an incurable and unbearable itch to go. This article by Professor Campos of the University of Colorado Law School lays it out perfectly.

"The Crisis of the American Law School" by Paul Campos

The economist Herbert Stein once remarked that if something cannot go on forever, it will stop. Over the past four decades, the cost of legal education in America has seemed to belie this aphorism: it has gone up relentlessly. Private law school tuition increased by a factor of four in real...

repository.law.umich.edu

It should also be noted that simply having a law degree and passing a bar exam do not make someone competent to practice law. It takes years of experience and even then some people just can't handle it. Being a lawyer is not a sideline.

Exactly your second paragraph is what was turning me off to combined programs, but there's really no way out of that. I'm going to pursue MD. Thank you!