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I did this with Fatal Plus and it hit me in the mouth. My mouth was weirdly numb/tingly the rest of the day.
RANT HERE thread
- Thread starter flyhi
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I did this with Fatal Plus and it hit me in the mouth. My mouth was weirdly numb/tingly the rest of the day.
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I'm sorry, Ash 
I hope they can figure it out.
I hope they can figure it out.
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I'm sorrySo I feel like my life has been two steps forward, three steps back lately. I naively thought my parents were out of the woods, but apparently my father went to an orthropedic surgeon today, and they basically told him that due to his circumstances, if he undergoes surgery to fix his arm, he has a 50% chance dying on the table due to a blood clot. 50%... that's so high and it's all I can think about
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Well, it's officially time for my semesterly "I shouldn't even bother applying" freak out once grades have been posted. Except this time, I think it's a pretty valid freak out.
3.2 overall currently, not counting the grades I just got. I got a B- in biochem (I could have sworn it was going to be B or B+, but I think all the smarty pants kids this semester ruined the curve), a C in immunology, and a couple Bs in 2 humanities classes.
This was the semester that I was supposed to "prove myself" as a student and do super well, and obviously that didn't happen. I just have no idea where to go from here. If I wait to apply until next year, there's no guarantee that I won't do just as poorly in my remaining 2 semesters.
I have clinical skills. There's no doubt about that, as it's something I've heard from all of the vets I've worked with. My academics are just not my strongest point. I'm a crappy test taker, I just got diagnosed with ADD this semester and started a new medication, I deal with depression and anxiety, my kitty is sick, I have to work on top of attending classes, and I just have a whole lot of things stacked against me. I don't think they're valid explanations for a vet school adcom, though. They don't care about any of my crap, they just want me to be good at school. But I'm not, and I don't think I ever will be. I'm still trying to figure out this whole learning disability thing with my medication provider, but what if it can't be resolved/treated that quickly? With my luck, I'm sure it can't.
Should I just not go to vet school?? I have no idea what else I would do. I just don't want to spend a bunch of money on applying if this is completely hopeless.
3.2 overall currently, not counting the grades I just got. I got a B- in biochem (I could have sworn it was going to be B or B+, but I think all the smarty pants kids this semester ruined the curve), a C in immunology, and a couple Bs in 2 humanities classes.
This was the semester that I was supposed to "prove myself" as a student and do super well, and obviously that didn't happen. I just have no idea where to go from here. If I wait to apply until next year, there's no guarantee that I won't do just as poorly in my remaining 2 semesters.
I have clinical skills. There's no doubt about that, as it's something I've heard from all of the vets I've worked with. My academics are just not my strongest point. I'm a crappy test taker, I just got diagnosed with ADD this semester and started a new medication, I deal with depression and anxiety, my kitty is sick, I have to work on top of attending classes, and I just have a whole lot of things stacked against me. I don't think they're valid explanations for a vet school adcom, though. They don't care about any of my crap, they just want me to be good at school. But I'm not, and I don't think I ever will be. I'm still trying to figure out this whole learning disability thing with my medication provider, but what if it can't be resolved/treated that quickly? With my luck, I'm sure it can't.
Should I just not go to vet school?? I have no idea what else I would do. I just don't want to spend a bunch of money on applying if this is completely hopeless.
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I guess the obvious question is:
If you've had this freak out over multiple semesters .... what have you done between each semester to improve things? And have you REALLY done what you think you've done, or have you just given it a half-hearted "yeah, sure, I'll go see a tutor next semester" (and then gone twice). I know that sounds like a cruel thing to say, but the vast majority of people who talk about implementing new approaches or study habits either don't, or they do a really half-hearted effort.
Technical clinical skills are great, but they aren't the most important part of being a clinician.
I think admissions committees DO care about all those things, but the bottom line - and rightfully so - is that you have to be able to succeed academically in spite of them. It just doesn't do any good to have a dvm candidate who can place a catheter like nobody's business, but who can't pass a clin path exam and interpret blood chemistry.
From the sounds of your post, I think you would be well served by continuing with mental health care, and by developing a really good relationship with appropriate school staff who can help guide your academic efforts and make suggestions about ways to study that could help you perform better.
I would not get disheartened over your cumulative GPA. Could it be better? Sure! But plenty of people get in with a 3.2 GPA. Obviously you want to do better, but .... it's not like you're coming at it with a 2.7 or something. Hang in there!
Last comment: I get the disappointment and frustration, but ... it's not really appropriate to blame the "smarty pants kids" who "ruined the curve". Are you suggesting they should do intentionally worse? That's not fair. They have every right to perform as well as they can, too, and you are the only person responsible for your grade. Not them.
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Let's see... what have I done to improve... I dunno, only see just about every professional there is, I spend a good chunk of my life trying to figure out what works for me and what doesn't in terms of study habits and life habits that can improve study habits.
I get it. I suck. But I already knew that.
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There comes a point where you need to not worry about how to "prove yourself" with ridiculous academic overload. Trust me, I learned this my very last semester. It was supposed to be my time, man. Biochemistry, physics 2, pharmacology, virology, immunology, and completing a defending my senior thesis. I went in so confident and lol... You could extrapolate that data. At least I passed and didn't lose my MSU seat. Though they did rip my cum laude medal off at graduation. Even my file reviewer at LSU was asking me if I was crazy when he saw my Spring courseload. I also consider myself to be a heavy hitter academically, and I've usually done well with high loads. But admittedly that semester was massive overkill.
I got looked over for adult ADHD. I had many of the traits listed but it was clear for doctors to tell it was stress driven. I just have really bad anxiety. Still working on that. I'm not saying your diagnosis isn't valid, but I'm sure stresses are contributing. That's something that can be managed maybe a bit easier than the ADD jtself. Thing to remember above all is that you are a human. Keep seeing whoever you're seeing. My school counselor pulled me out of an extremely dark time last semester. I honestly probably would've been hospitalized if it weren't for him. Please don't let those resources go to waste.
I almost didn't apply this cycle. Do it, and see where it takes you. My biggest fear was getting vet lors, but that doesn't sound like a problem you'll have.
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I read LIS's post as being constructive, realistic, and helpful and totally didn't warrant a snarky response. I was like you. My first go-around in undergrad I graduated and did meh, average. I dealt with anxiety/health issues and have been doing so much better as a post-bacc student now that my anxiety is dealt with and managed. You don't suck, you just may need to tweak things some more. This is about you and your journey, not how you stack up to others. You're certainly not doing yourself any favors by beating yourself up. Re-evaluate, make a plan, and execute.
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Pretty sure I didn't say that. But your response is probably telling. If your attitude is "I've done everything and there isn't anything else to do" then yes, you should quit before you invest more money.
Otherwise, get the help you need and start 100% implementing what they suggest. And at the same time, quit blaming yourself and being hard on yourself. And also quit blaming people who do better for being "smarty pants." Blame is a no-win proposition in this game. All you can do is look ahead and make things better going forward.
Finally, "spend a good chunk of my life trying to figure out what works for me" is <exactly> the kind of non-specific, vague, unmeasurable stuff that doesn't help. Instead of just talking about changing things and talking about "trying to figure things out" you need to be very, very concrete. Write down a specific, measurable plan ("I will study X subject for Y hours on Z days") and then track it. Find out if you're actually doing what you think you're doing. And sitting there with a book open in front of you while you actually spend half the time texting friends doesn't count. If you find out you aren't doing what you think you're doing - then you have a place to start. If you are and it's not helping, then you know with objective evidence that you need a new plan. But the super vague wording that you're using here is exactly the kind of unmeasurable stuff that helps students think they're trying "everything" when they really aren't trying anything.
There are always more study options. Just keep trying until you find what works. Be creative. Study in a coffee shop. If that doesn't work, study in a library. Study with music. Study without. Study with flashcards. Study by reading outloud. Study by giving an out-loud lecture on the subject to an imaginary classroom full of people (no joke, it works). .... I could go on and on, and it's not even an area I know anything about, so I imagine an expert could give you 10x the number of creative approaches.
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LIS is a cranky old man on that wheelchair of his but he would never just say you suck. I think you know that too. I think you lashed out at him because you're feeling bad about yourself. Everyone here wants to be helpful but they can't if you bite their heads off.
3.2 is higher than a good number of my classmates' GPAs when they were accepted. But you have to prove that you can succeed at school. And that can mean your last semesters are very good, talk to professors and TAs at the beginning of the semester. The first day. Ask how you can be successful in that class and any tools they have that might help.
As far as the ADD thing, I was diagnosed IN vet school with a fairly severe combo of hyperactive, distractive and impulsive. And had to figure that out during the most challenging academics of my life. You need to accept that you're going to have to just suck it up and work harder. It isn't an excuse. And I'm not attacking you but you seem to give a lot of excuses. Most of us worked multiple jobs etc before getting in. If we can do it so can you.
On that note, I think your biggest hurdle is this mental space you're in. I think it would behoove you to figure that out before anything else. If you're battling debilitating mental conditions, which you might be because it sounds like it's hindering you're ability to succeed, you need to address that first. It's very hard to be productive and successful if you're in a dark head space. If you address that other things might fall into place better. And I think it's important. Forget academic rigors, veterinary school can be very mentally and emotionally draining. And you need to be prepared.
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I really never blamed anyone for anything. I got my grade and I'm fine with it. I had previously mentioned in other posts that I thought I was getting a B+, so I offered an explanation. What was meant as a light hearted comment was (twice) construed as blaming others for my situation. I have never blamed anyone for anything regarding my academics or my application except for myself. I just didn't think it was fair that was automatically labeled as this person who blames people for their crap, when I really did no such thing, never have, and never will. I certainly took all of your comments as constructive except for this one, and since you ended on that note that was how I responded. It's just not something that I do. I'm a big girl and take responsibility for myself, always.
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And the comment I made "if we can do it so can you" is supposed to mean that there isn't anything special about those of us that have gotten in (except me of course, I'm awesome). We just worked hard and figured out what worked for us
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I was not good at school, my GPA was poor (sub-3.0) and I got in. What I realized after getting through veterinary school is that adcoms don't want applicants to be "good at school" but they need some way to measure an applicant's ability to study hard, understand the concepts they're being taught and apply them in a standardized format (testing) and do so while juggling multiple classes. Vet school is formatted similarly to undergrad: lectures, Powerpoints, tests. And the NAVLE (the licensing exam) is the same: multiple choice test. It sucks that this is the way education is since it doesn't fit everyone's learning style or even always appropriately reflect our knowledge level or grasp of material but it's the game we have to play in order to get what we want.
It sounds like you're still wrestling with finding the best way to process material in a way that helps you to succeed in the traditional academic setting. Instead of continuing at this time, have you considered a semester or even a year off? Find a way that you can succeed before going back instead of trying to figure it out while in the middle of classes? Or if that isn't an option, have you been to speak with a school counselor or learning center? Is there a way you can decrease or discontinue your work hours so that you can focus entirely on coursework? I'm sure you've considered a lot of different things, so I wish you the best of luck. (And to answer the original question about whether or not to apply...it depends on a lot of things, but I'd post your stats in the What Are My Chances? thread if you haven't already, since GPA would be only part of my answer to that question
)
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I was not good at school, my GPA was poor (sub-3.0) and I got in. What I realized after getting through veterinary school is that adcoms don't want applicants to be "good at school" but they need some way to measure an applicant's ability to study hard, understand the concepts they're being taught and apply them in a standardized format (testing) and do so while juggling multiple classes. Vet school is formatted similarly to undergrad: lectures, Powerpoints, tests. And the NAVLE (the licensing exam) is the same: multiple choice test. It sucks that this is the way education is since it doesn't fit everyone's learning style or even always appropriately reflect our knowledge level or grasp of material but it's the game we have to play in order to get what we want.
It sounds like you're still wrestling with finding the best way to process material in a way that helps you to succeed in the traditional academic setting. Instead of continuing at this time, have you considered a semester or even a year off? Find a way that you can succeed before going back instead of trying to figure it out while in the middle of classes? Or if that isn't an option, have you been to speak with a school counselor or learning center? Is there a way you can decrease or discontinue your work hours so that you can focus entirely on coursework? I'm sure you've considered a lot of different things, so I wish you the best of luck. (And to answer the original question about whether or not to apply...it depends on a lot of things, but I'd post your stats in the What Are My Chances? thread if you haven't already, since GPA would be only part of my answer to that question
May I ask where you went to vet school? Or, was it a school in the US?
I took last year off, so I don't really want to take more time off, though I suppose I could. I've been using the learning center at my school and also have a counselor to help with time management. I'm not NOT succeeding, and I'm not really having a very hard time - I am just trying to figure everything out and what works best for me. Taking a bit longer than others do, but it's happening.
Thank you
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Today, my boss (a DVM) told me that it is not okay to "play the doctor card" and that I should solicit and consider feedback from the entire team on how to handle medical decisions. Yes, really.
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I'm sorry. That is dumb and really sucks.
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Then what does the D in DVM stand for lol. I mean.
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Yeah, I wondered the same thing. I had to have her repeat herself to make sure that she was for real.... she was. Insanity.
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I don't understand how someone deemed capable of both graduating from a veterinary medicine program (as proved by your degree) and practicing veterinary medicine (as proved by any level of licensing to practice that you have) is apparently incapable of making medical decisions independently.
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Yep. And yet my 21 year old vet assistant, who had never set foot in a clinic until about 1.5 years ago, is completely supported in questioning my medical judgement. It's awesome. Don't go corporate, kids.
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I'm sorry to hear that. :/
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Between this and what you've posted in the past about your clinic I'm just astounded that we work for the same company. I can't imagine any of us coming close to questioning one of the docs' medical decisions, let alone being encouraged to do so. The only time they ever solicit that kind of feedback from us is in a "what do you think we would do for this case?" teaching kind of way. Just...what the hell.
We do have our thoroughly incompetent, occasionally sexist, and all around hated by everyone who works for him practice manager so I guess every clinic has its issues. I made a prediction about our last staff meeting about half an hour before it happened. We would voice our concerns, he would barely listen, talk over us, and hand wave or shift blame for every single one. Guess what happened? I'll miss my team but I am not that sad to be leaving this job in 2 weeks.
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This even shocks me. My hospital has its problems too, but I adore every single one of my coworkers. Other hospitals in our city though, I hear are a much different story. I got lucky.
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Someone should probably tell corporate that a person with no experience in veterinary medicine has no business being a PM at a brand new hospital. But maybe that's just me. There are better and worse hospitals in our city too. And every hospital had it's main issue. Ours lately has been a lack of tools to do our job because he still hasn't figured out how to do inventory, or prioritize our orders. I spent my downtime this week doing inventory myself and writing everything we were running out of on our order board with the amount we had left next to it. I can bet when the order comes in we'll still end up with stuff we don't need and missing things we do.
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Yuck. We have two problems. 1. We are short on techs because three quit/moved away within a month of each other, but we just hired two more so that's improving. and 2. 3/4 of our doctors are c/o 2015 and are still learning how to manage time with how busy our hospital is, and we are generally behind on appointments.
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Oh man, that is tough :/ must be really stressful for the new vets too. There's a relatively new grad working alone at the worst hospital in my city because one of the other vets was fired and the other left to start his own practice. I feel really bad for him. I predict my hospital will soon have a staffing issue (we already sort of do), I'm leaving and we are about to start having two doctor days, there is not technically a trained replacement for me yet, our two senior VAs are going on vacation at the same time in July, and our new CVT might actually be moving then as well.
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Yeah it's definitely stressful but they are great doctors and the clients love them so it all works out.
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She's not a PM, she's a shift lead. We had an extremely aggressive young German Shepherd in for a comprehensive exam and I couldn't get near him was lunging at my face. Because he's only a year old, I knew that wrestling him today would make future visits that much harder. On further discussion with the owner, it turned out that she is also afraid of the dog.... so while I didn't perform exam/BW/etc that day, we discussed behavior referral, sedation for his visit with us, etc. extensively and she left VERY appreciative of the time that I spent with her.
My shift lead, however, was mad that I didn't just wrestle him that day to get us the production for his visit. My practice manager backed her in that opinion, went to my chief of staff about it, and I got berated for not 'trying harder' to muzzle the dog and fight it to the ground for its exam and services.
My chief of staff said "I feel like you care more about your patients than the hospital finances." Umm... duh. We BOTH took the same oath!!
I'm trying to transfer to another hospital where there the team seems to care a a tiny bit more about the medicine instead of only the $$$... Fingers crossed that they let me. Waiting to hear back.
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Oh I was referring to my PM in that part haha.
That's crazy that they would fight you about an extremely aggressive dog, do they want someone to get hurt?? I hope you're able to get the transfer.
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These are the things I've heard about corporate med. It's about the bottom line, not the patients/staff's well being.
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Clients who aren't honest about their finances drive me nuts.
Laid out plans a, b, and c. A being a long drive to a specific specialist and lots of zeros on the bill. B closer to home emergency clinic, slightly less zeros but no specialist. C at home supportive care/new meds. "Oh sure, no problem, I'll spend anything, whatever she needs, I want her somewhere they can watch her all weekend." Gets to plan A specialist and declines everything except fluids and new meds. Took her home and called me this morning when she wasn't better. :headbang:
Laid out plans a, b, and c. A being a long drive to a specific specialist and lots of zeros on the bill. B closer to home emergency clinic, slightly less zeros but no specialist. C at home supportive care/new meds. "Oh sure, no problem, I'll spend anything, whatever she needs, I want her somewhere they can watch her all weekend." Gets to plan A specialist and declines everything except fluids and new meds. Took her home and called me this morning when she wasn't better. :headbang:
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Absolutely true... at least at many corporate hospitals. Unfortunately, nothing else available in my area right now so I'm stuck.
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...Wait. This is a good thing.
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Right? I'm just shaking my head at this.
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It just blows my mind how there can be so much variation within the corporation. I'm assuming I worked for the same one too and I had no where near any if these experiences. My Practice manager would always mention productivity but then we'd also find ways to help people out if possible and wouldn't fight the ridiculously aggressive dogs or push products if people had financial concerns (a relief vet for us did though)
We only had really one tech who would quesion a vet's judgement and she no longer works for them.
I would have considered working for them (mainly this location) if I hadn't decided to do an internship because I'm sort of interested in emergency.
We only had really one tech who would quesion a vet's judgement and she no longer works for them.
I would have considered working for them (mainly this location) if I hadn't decided to do an internship because I'm sort of interested in emergency.
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You made a snarky comment about the "smarty pants" students raising the curve and thereby lowering your grade. That's blaming.
If you didn't mean it that way - awesome. But it's not my job to guess what you mean - I can only read what you actually wrote.
Ironically, you then blame me for misinterpreting something that you said. If you are a big girl who takes responsibility for herself, then the appropriate response is "Oh, I didn't mean it that way. I was just joking. My grade is definitely entirely on my shoulders." Not to lash out at someone who is offering you good - if blunt - advice.
Best of luck to you.
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i think sometime it just takes time and an actual estimate/more conversation for the realities to sink in. its frustrating for all parties involved, but i have to remind myself that sometimes what clients really need is time and the hard facts presented in many ways many times. i was ready to pull my hair out yesterday with a few clients who acknowledged understanding multiple times after the same conversation was laid out and then turned around and asked the discharge tech or another person the same things as if they'd never heard a word before. clients! they provide entertainment or they make you want to scream haha
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Are shift leads DVMs? I'm not terribly familiar with the structure.
That line is crap. You should care about your patient. I mean. I suppose they can make the obvious "hospital has to stay afloat to help patients" argument, but .... to make you feel bad for caring about your patients is just bizarre.
One of the hospitals in the corporation I presume we're talking about used to routinely send clients over for diagnostic abdominal ultrasounds at one of our locations that is a standalone ER (I.e. no surgeons, no internal medicine, etc.). I don't do full abdominal diagnostic ultrasounds. I do aFASTs and tFASTs. Can I look at a liver and a spleen and a bladder and whatnot? Sure. Duh. And I'll often talk to owners about what I see with some hemoab or some TCC or whatever. But I am not qualified nor competent to sell a full diagnostic abdominal ultrasound to a client, nor are any of my colleagues. Yet, even when we let this particular hospital know we don't offer that service .... people keep showing up. You just have to wonder.
OMG, I hate that. It's so frustrating. Two of our locations are colocated with a referral/specialty corporation (one of the larger nationwide groups). I routinely hospitalize things overnight to transfer to them in the morning. I <always> have a discussion with the client along the lines of "Here is the estimate for overnight care. Consultation with their Int Med doctor in the morning will cost $XXX. I suspect they will recommend an abdominal ultrasound to start. That costs $XXX. Other diagnostics and treatment are likely to raise the cost significantly - you can expect around $XXXX to $XXXX beyond the overnight cost." And then I document the discussion. And then a day later I show up and hear "Oh yeah. They transferred and declined diagnostics and euth'd."
Makes you want to pull your hair out. And, it always makes me feel a little like a schlep even though I know I didn't really do anything wrong.
On the positive side, it gives me empathy for all those RDVMs that send me cases that show up and euth. While there are definitely some RDVMs who obviously NEVER give their clients any idea of our cost (and you figure out who they are pretty quick), I presume most of them do but the clients change their tune when they show up.
Clients lie. Always. Rule to live by.
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Crafting rant: I'm two cans of spray paint in to refinishing an old side table I "inherited" from my grandma's place. I still need at least one can to finish the top and cover any more spots showing through (dark old stain going to mustard yellow so many coats are required), but I'm out...... AND I bought the last two cans at Lowe's so I'm not hopeful that running back to the store will actually be fruitful in getting what I want. So now I'll probably have to wait until sometime in the future to come back to my parents' and finish it....... unless I lug it back to Columbus where there are at least three Lowe's I can visit but inadequate space to refinish it. Damn it. Damn it. Damn it.
At least my dad gave me $60 for foodz while I dog sit... for one day.
At least my dad gave me $60 for foodz while I dog sit... for one day.
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Not usually - they are usually techs and not always certified or registered.
The problem with corporate med is that there is a lot of pressure to play the numbers game. Even some of the better ones still feel this pressure. A lot of the incentive for the Chief of Staff comes not only for their own production, but the production of the hospital.
It's certainly one reason I was never happy there. I have always held to the idea that the medicine comes first. If I do it right, the money will follow.
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Ugh, so frustrating. My favorite was a guy who finally agreed to take his sweet old Golden to referral to be scoped because she ate a long, frayed charging cord that I would not agree to give apo. I called before I left that day and he had just never shown up
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2009
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- Joined
- Feb 10, 2008
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Exit loan counseling.
I love the part where they suggest I should have a ~120k minimum gross income to cover my loans.
I love the part where they suggest I should have a ~120k minimum gross income to cover my loans.
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- Joined
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Exit loan counseling.
I love the part where they suggest I should have a ~120k minimum gross income to cover my loans.
They do know that you're graduating with a DVM, right?
- Joined
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Exit loan counseling.
I love the part where they suggest I should have a ~120k minimum gross income to cover my loans.
That was an extremely depressing experience. I think I had to pretend that I was living at home and only paying gas to break even in order to move to the next page.
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Lol. I didn't even fill out the stupid worksheets, just answered their mandatory questions. I knew doing the whole thing would be depressing, so I skipped most of it. I do remember some random recommended salary that had me cracking up and crying at the same time.
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Yeah the salary calculated wants your loan payment to be no greater than 8% of your income. ha. ha. ha...
Surprised it let you through, though, it required me to put something into all the fill in parts of the spreadsheet before going on, as I also tried to just skip it.
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Yeah there were some fill in areas that were more just for your info and not required. There were a couple times I missed a required box and I'd have to go back to fill it. I ignored everything else. Probably helps that I did the exit counseling when I transferred schools too, so I remembered being able to skip some things.
