Residency transfer

[podiatryresident]

Dear Everyone. I hope this thread won't cause you any inconvenience.
I'm a first year resident at the program that wasn't my top choice. I like PD and all Attendings but be honest, I don't like the training there, it's not what I expected.
I would like to transfer program. Do you think it's better to transfer right now or wait until the end of first year ? and should I contact the new program before talking to my PD ?
Please help me if anyone experienced this process. I really appreciate it.
Thanks again for reading this.

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[air bud]

Hopefully people on here that have transferred can help you. Has to be a very scary process, I mean I know how stressful it can be to be looking for a job while you already have one.....good luck. Focus on your physical health because your mental health is going to suffwr through this. All the what ifs and running through scenarios.

 

[heybrother]

My program picked up a resident back in the day and there's a bunch of things to keep in mind

-Obviously the new program has to want you / accept you
-But back in the day the old program had to willingly release you. Maybe this has changed but our new resident's program didn't want them to leave / refused to sign off forever. Some sort of director of GME at their residency forced their PD to sign.
-Its petty, but its entirely possible the old program will essentially give up on you the second you say you are leaving. ie. the resident we picked up was still allowed to operate at their program (surprising), but the program approved -zero- of their logs once they said they were leaving. They had already met hammertoes and first ray by resident logs but they brought essentially none of it with them.

I wish you the best of luck. I hope this leads to stronger/better training for you. I also hope that you have reasonable expectations about your new program. There are programs out there with more "work" than actual training available and picking up a resident can be more of a boon for the program than the resident.

 

[CutsWithFury]

Transferring programs can be tricky. I honestly would not do it unless you know of a better program that is going to fire a resident or has fired a resident and you have the inside track to get the position.

I transferred programs. I left a strong program for a historically stronger program which had fired their resident. I knew one of the senior residents and inquired and a good word was put in for me. I then found myself doing an online interview late at night like two days later going against residents from all over the country trying to get the position. I scored the highest.

Once I had the position secured I then had to disclose to my PD that I was leaving and this person was pretty pissed. The hospital I was leaving wanted my PD to fire me rather than release me because they were angry but the PD refused to do this because for anyone who knows when you fill out privileging forms for hospitals you have to disclose if you ever were terminated from a position. I would have had to forever disclose this if they did fire me. Fortunately this never happened.

The stars aligned when I transferred. If those set of circumstances never presented themselves I would have never gone through with it. But I’m glad I did because it gave me the training I was seeking.

It’s possible but you could deal with some consequences that may forever affect your career. If someone wants to hurt your career they can under this situation.

 

[HardRoadPaved]

You are a PGY1. Can you say what you dont like specifically? It's pretty easy to cast shade until you're doing meaningful work rather than boring rotations and call as a PGY1.

 

[Feli]

The animosity from the program/director you exit is because you are $$$... ~$300k annually to them, to be exact.

Do you. As was said, it should only be considered for a SUBSTANTIAL upgrade of programs. It can work either way. We had one transfer into my program after first year (we had left 1/4 spots open... not much quality in scramble, surplus almost 100 spots that cycle). That individual was a good student but had tried for elite match, scrambled, and taken a cross-town program that was good years ago and then fell off big; by transferring for pgy2 and 3, they are now RRA cert, out of debt, practice owner. The following year, we had one match, leave after 1st year to be closer to a boyfriend, never got even Foot cert (our program they left has virtually 100% BQ pass historically). So yeah, probably life-changing for both.

It is easier to transfer at the change of residency year when there is orientation, badging, and overall change at the program happening anyways, but do whatever makes sense for you. As was mentioned, you won't make a lot of friends transferring. Expect some cold treatment from the one you leave and a slow acceptance where you arrive. I will say the doc who transferred into my program is the co-res I'm actually in touch with most frequent 10yr later... but we all four stay in contact sometimes.

Do you. You know the situ, and it won't be uncomfortable for too long. You only get one residency training exp; make the most of it. GL

 

[Pronation]

The animosity from the program/director you exit is because you are $$$... ~$300k annually to them, to be exact.

Are you saying that a PD makes 300k/yr per resident?

 

[Feli]

Are you saying that a PD makes 300k/yr per resident?

No, the facility does... nearly $200k/yr directly gme monies, and ~100k more from productivity of an avg resident (basically boost/expedite attendings' output).

The directors are nearly always under fairly heavy hospital pressure to fill/retain all approved spots for that reasoning. Residents cover the PD salary, program coordinator, GME office, and much more bread for the hospital.

 

[newfeet]

Dear Everyone. I hope this thread won't cause you any inconvenience.
I'm a first year resident at the program that wasn't my top choice. I like PD and all Attendings but be honest, I don't like the training there, it's not what I expected.
I would like to transfer program. Do you think it's better to transfer right now or wait until the end of first year ? and should I contact the new program before talking to my PD ?
Please help me if anyone experienced this process. I really appreciate it.
Thanks again for reading this.

during my 3rd year, a first year transferred out. But that person applied for a spot that open for year 2. They completed the first year. Our program interviewed other first years who wanted her second spot. It was seamless.

 

[podiatryresident]

Thanks everyone for your advice. My program is mostly about diabetic wounds, we pick up other numbers from OSH ortho group (just watching). Some other factors but I don't want to talk bad about my program because all Attendings are very nice. I contacted 1 program and PD will met me in person next week. He only concerns why I want to transfer... it's understandable :|
I'm afraid if my PD knows about I'm in contact with someone. Will they fire me before I get accepted ?
Anyway, I'm ready for re-entering the match.
Thank you so much for everyone's time

 

[Feli]

...program is mostly about diabetic wounds, we pick up other numbers from OSH ortho group (just watching)...

That is not "numbers," that's fraud. There is no real involvement there, so the "first assistant" does nothing that watching a video doesn't. There were a few Michigan programs when I was there that "got numbers" with Ortho in the same way... no meaningful participation. Some of the orthos even had a first assist who would do more than the residents. Residents did no pins, no screws, no plates. They did no dissections, no reductions, very seldom "first assist" logging resident would even do incision closure or the splint. It's junk. I agree with getting out asap if you have a significantly better spot that you can get to.

Most programs can't just fire a resident without reason (drugs, absences, theft, drama, etc). Go about your business as quickly and don't shout it from mountaintops... but definitely don't worry about taking care of number one. These are the exposures, trainings, and skills you'll have for the life of your career.

 

[Pronation]

Thanks everyone for your advice. My program is mostly about diabetic wounds, we pick up other numbers from OSH ortho group (just watching). Some other factors but I don't want to talk bad about my program because all Attendings are very nice. I contacted 1 program and PD will met me in person next week. He only concerns why I want to transfer... it's understandable :|
I'm afraid if my PD knows about I'm in contact with someone. Will they fire me before I get accepted ?
Anyway, I'm ready for re-entering the match.
Thank you so much for everyone's time

This program sounds awful and should be shutdown.

 

[air bud]

Rule number 1 is look out for number 1. Rule number 2 is remember rule number 1. Rule number 3 is don't become a podiatrist.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Thanks everyone for your advice. My program is mostly about diabetic wounds, we pick up other numbers from OSH ortho group (just watching). Some other factors but I don't want to talk bad about my program because all Attendings are very nice. I contacted 1 program and PD will met me in person next week. He only concerns why I want to transfer... it's understandable :|
I'm afraid if my PD knows about I'm in contact with someone. Will they fire me before I get accepted ?
Anyway, I'm ready for re-entering the match.
Thank you so much for everyone's time

Once you make the transfer, you should file a complaint to the CPME. I agree with the above, and this program should not exist.

 

[heybrother]

I'm open to being wrong on this, but I don't think I ever visited a program that was good and was focused on wounds. Everyone takes care of inpatient pus and what not. Some more. Some less. But none of the top flight programs I visited put it on a pedestal or made it the focus.

If your program is focused on wounds and you did 50 frames - maybe that's a different story...

 

[Boba Foot]

Thanks everyone for your advice. My program is mostly about diabetic wounds, we pick up other numbers from OSH ortho group (just watching). Some other factors but I don't want to talk bad about my program because all Attendings are very nice. I contacted 1 program and PD will met me in person next week. He only concerns why I want to transfer... it's understandable :|
I'm afraid if my PD knows about I'm in contact with someone. Will they fire me before I get accepted ?
Anyway, I'm ready for re-entering the match.
Thank you so much for everyone's time

Sounds like they need residents to help run their wound care game and don't really give a turd about the rest of your residency experience. I'm sorry. I had an attending that was forced into a wound care/salvage track based on his residency experience, and though he loved what he did, I could always tell that he wished he could do more. Don't let a bad residency paint you into a corner.

 

[wakaflocka88]

Once you make the transfer, you should file a complaint to the CPME. I agree with the above, and this program should not exist.

I agree. Unfortunately I can name quite a few programs on the west coast that are similar to the one OP described. They should not be logging these cases as first assist, maybe not even second assist.

 

[AttackNME]

Aren’t there supposed to be program audits and site visits from CPME? I remember having to do an interview as a resident in front of a group of these podiatrists auditing my program. They need to assess these programs and shut them down when appropriate, and residents like OP have the crappy situation of needing to be the whistleblower, otherwise subpar training will perpetuate

 

[call1800doctorb]

Aren’t there supposed to be program audits and site visits from CPME? I remember having to do an interview as a resident in front of a group of these podiatrists auditing my program. They need to assess these programs and shut them down when appropriate, and residents like OP have the crappy situation of needing to be the whistleblower, otherwise subpar training will perpetuate

Podiatry have some standards and shut a program down? Not likely.

 

[Feli]

Podiatry have some standards and shut a program down? Not likely.

It does happen infrequently and in times where there's a residency spot surplus.

That's exactly why the new schools without new residencies and/or big acceptance from existing schools is so destructive. The residency shortages are detrimental. Not only will bad programs not get shut down, but new ones will get hastily approved.

The truly bad part is that existing strong programs also get "opportunity" (aka political pressure and financial pressure) to take more residents, water down their numbers, and be average programs. This was offered to my program, DMC, etc that had good surgical volume... they were offered to go from 4/yr to 7 or 8 per year. They thankfully chose rep/quality over money, but a fair amount of other programs go from good to avg, avg to poor, bad to worse. Even name programs can become shaky with instant 20%, 25, 33, even 50% more resident mouthes to feed. It's important for students/clerks to keep an eye for that. The match ratio will clearly tip in that direction again soon.

 

[air bud]

It does happen infrequently and in times where there's a residency spot surplus.

That's exactly why the new schools without new residencies and/or big acceptance from existing schools is so destructive. The residency shortages are detrimental. Not only will bad programs not get shut down, but new ones will get hastily approved.

The truly bad part is that existing strong programs also get "opportunity" (aka political pressure and financial pressure) to take more residents, water down their numbers, and be average programs. This was offered to my program, DMC, etc that had good surgical volume... they were offered to go from 4/yr to 7 or 8 per year. They thankfully chose rep/quality over money, but a fair amount of other programs go from good to avg, avg to poor, bad to worse. Even name programs can become shaky with instant 20%, 25, 33, even 50% more resident mouthes to feed. It's important for students/clerks to keep an eye for that. The match ratio will clearly tip in that direction again soon.

No it won't because they promised they will create more residency positions. You just wait and see Bub.

 

[Feli]

No it won't because they promised they will create more residency positions. You just wait and see Bub.

 

[podiatryresident]

Hello Everyone, it's me again. I want to thank you for all recs. I'm about to be accepted by another program. The new PD is working to have a contract for me but he advises me not to tell my PD yet because it's hasn't been done yet.
I'm wondering if 2 weeks notice is enough or what I should do in this situation ?
I really appreciate it!

 

[Weirdy]

Hello Everyone, it's me again. I want to thank you for all recs. I'm about to be accepted by another program. The new PD is working to have a contract for me but he advises me not to tell my PD yet because it's hasn't been done yet.
I'm wondering if 2 weeks notice is enough or what I should do in this situation ?
I really appreciate it!

Wait until you have a signed contract in hand.
Then tell your PD. Keep it short, polite.

Curious to hear other perspectives. You can always try to look out for your program so they can fill the spot- but this can also backfire on you if they decide to throw you out of spite.

 

[malleolusman]

Wait until you have a signed contract in hand.
Then tell your PD. Keep it short, polite.

Curious to hear other perspectives. You can always try to look out for your program so they can fill the spot- but this can also backfire on you if they decide to throw you out of spite.

Congrats on getting the transfer.

Agree w above. Do NOTHING until you have a signed contract in hand. Then, give your notice with respect to your starting date etc. This isn’t like quitting an associate or hospital job where you are legally bound to give 60-90 day notice etc.

 

[AttackNME]

I heard from friends who are PDs that there are a shortage of residents, more residency spots than there are residents. Transfers should be happening more often

 

[619]

I heard from friends who are PDs that there are a shortage of residents, more residency spots than there are residents. Transfers should be happening more often

Looks like a green light to open more schools

 

[Pronation]

Looks like a green light to open more schools

I agree. Opening more schools will be critical to my planned 85k/yr associate mill which I hope to open in the near future.

 

[icebreaker32]

Even Podiatry Management is not in favor of CAQs

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[podgal2003]

Transfers are common. Your PGY1 training will follow you. Do not burn any bridges as you leave. You just never know. Best of luck!