"Saving" Stray Cat vs. Stealing Owned Outdoor Cat (No ID)

[Minnerbelle]

Now that I have a lot of free time I've been pondering a couple of things, and this one's annoying me at the moment.

So let's say that some kind individual finds a scrawny cat in her neighborhood, and decides to take him in. She takes the cat into the vet's office and has the cat scanned for a microchip (negative). She puts up fliers in her neighborhood, posts on petfinder/craigslist, and files a found report with the local shelter and animal control. No one claims the cat well over what the hold period would be at the local shelter, so the girl decides to adopt the cat.

I think that's a very admirable and fine thing to do. Girl takes in an animal off the street, gives a possible owner the chance to reclaim the animal, and doesn't put burden on the shelter.

Now, let's say another individual picks up a cat in his neighborhood, and after finding out that the cat doesn't have a microchip, decides to keep the cat in his home without doing anything else.

That sounds a bit shady to me... since there are a lot of cats that get loose (or simply indoor/outdoor cats whose collar fell off). I don't think that just because someone doesn't get a microchip for his/her beloved cat (a lot of people just don't know better) their cat is up for grabs.

I've been looking and looking, but I could not find any laws in my state saying that a cat finder MUST put an effort into finding the owner before keeping a cat. I only find that the new person must give the cat back if the rightful owner appears (within a year i think). So essentially, anyone can appoint themselves animal control's little helper and start pilfering cats off the street, and owners wouldn't even know how to find their cats.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that just seems so f***ed up! Now what if this shady guy goes around collecting all the cats he can find? Who's to stop him if he were to start up a private non-profit rescue?

thoughts? facts? laws?

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[168135]

Anybody who lets their cat roam without a collar or microchip doesn't deserve the pet. Anybody who lets their cat roam period doesn't deserve the pet. We don't allow dogs/pigs/horses/ferrets to roam the streets, so why is it okay to allow cats to roam?

If someone is ignorant enough to let their cat roam without any idenfication and doesn't even come looking for the cat, well, they're out of luck. If I had my own car, every cat that ended up on my property without a collar/microship would be going to the shelter. If the owner gave a darn, one of the first places they would call to report their cat missing would be the shelter

I don't know of any laws in my area... I can ask the shelter next time I'm in to volunteer. I don't really know much about it... I'd like to though... I went to a talk a few years ago about animals in the law. In the law, animals are considered "objects" or "property". I donno... if someone put their TV in my yard and I take it, they have no legal basis on demanding I give it back, right?

Someone enlighten me.

 

[luplodw]

Anybody who lets their cat roam without a collar or microchip doesn't deserve the pet. Anybody who lets their cat roam period doesn't deserve the pet. We don't allow dogs/pigs/horses/ferrets to roam the streets, so why is it okay to allow cats to roam?

If someone is ignorant enough to let their cat roam without any idenfication and doesn't even come looking for the cat, well, they're out of luck. If I had my own car, every cat that ended up on my property without a collar/microship would be going to the shelter. If the owner gave a darn, one of the first places they would call to report their cat missing would be the shelter

I don't know of any laws in my area... I can ask the shelter next time I'm in to volunteer. I don't really know much about it... I'd like to though... I went to a talk a few years ago about animals in the law. In the law, animals are considered "objects" or "property". I donno... if someone put their TV in my yard and I take it, they have no legal basis on demanding I give it back, right?

Someone enlighten me.

Ughhhh so my cat has no collar or microchip and he's an indoor/outdoor cat. I think that's pretty lame of you to tell me that I don't deserve to own the cat. (well it's my family's cat) Just because it doesn't have identification, doesn't mean that we don't take great care of it. I think its just shady of you to make a generalization like that. I live on a big farm so the cat doesn't roam off of my property...but still...don't be so closed minded

 

[Bearby]

Anybody who lets their cat roam without a collar or microchip doesn't deserve the pet. Anybody who lets their cat roam period doesn't deserve the pet. We don't allow dogs/pigs/horses/ferrets to roam the streets, so why is it okay to allow cats to roam?

If someone is ignorant enough to let their cat roam without any idenfication and doesn't even come looking for the cat, well, they're out of luck. If I had my own car, every cat that ended up on my property without a collar/microship would be going to the shelter. If the owner gave a darn, one of the first places they would call to report their cat missing would be the shelter

I don't know of any laws in my area... I can ask the shelter next time I'm in to volunteer. I don't really know much about it... I'd like to though... I went to a talk a few years ago about animals in the law. In the law, animals are considered "objects" or "property". I donno... if someone put their TV in my yard and I take it, they have no legal basis on demanding I give it back, right?

Someone enlighten me.

While in some cases I agree with you, like the OP said, sometimes the cat being outside without a collar...or outside at all was not planned. Cats are sneaky little critters and slip out when guests come. Someone tried to break into my house a week ago and if they had broken a window, I'm certain that one of the two cats in my house would have been out and it would have been without a collar. I have my cat microchipped even though he's indoor only because I'm afraid of that kind of thing happening.

I'm not aware of any laws, I know that if anyone comes in saying that they found a stray and bring it in for an exam I always tell them to put forth an effort to find the owner. I try to say how upset I would be if I had a cat that got out and I couldn't find him. Usually people who are going to take in an animal can relate to that because they wouldn't want that to happen to them.

 

[lalzi22]

Anybody who lets their cat roam without a collar or microchip doesn't deserve the pet.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. My cat is 13 years old and spends the entire summer outside (she wants to, she can come in when she wants, but she never wants to). She doesn't have a collar because she has been through 7 and has pulled every single one off, and when we got her, nobody microchipped, we never were told about it when we got her, so it seems silly to do it now that she is old and she knows her territory. Most people in my suburb have indoor/outdoor cats, and most are not microchipped, and many do not have collars, but most people are not stealing cats. Cats are smart, they now where the food is, and generally ***big generally star here*** they will come home to the food, so its not a big worry. Do I think this makes me a bad pet owner/undeserving of my cat? No. I think it means I'm a realistic pet owner.

 

[dyachei]

Now that I have a lot of free time I've been pondering a couple of things, and this one's annoying me at the moment.

So let's say that some kind individual finds a scrawny cat in her neighborhood, and decides to take him in. She takes the cat into the vet's office and has the cat scanned for a microchip (negative). She puts up fliers in her neighborhood, posts on petfinder/craigslist, and files a found report with the local shelter and animal control. No one claims the cat well over what the hold period would be at the local shelter, so the girl decides to adopt the cat.

I think that's a very admirable and fine thing to do. Girl takes in an animal off the street, gives a possible owner the chance to reclaim the animal, and doesn't put burden on the shelter.

Now, let's say another individual picks up a cat in his neighborhood, and after finding out that the cat doesn't have a microchip, decides to keep the cat in his home without doing anything else.

That sounds a bit shady to me... since there are a lot of cats that get loose (or simply indoor/outdoor cats whose collar fell off). I don't think that just because someone doesn't get a microchip for his/her beloved cat (a lot of people just don't know better) their cat is up for grabs.

I've been looking and looking, but I could not find any laws in my state saying that a cat finder MUST put an effort into finding the owner before keeping a cat. I only find that the new person must give the cat back if the rightful owner appears (within a year i think). So essentially, anyone can appoint themselves animal control's little helper and start pilfering cats off the street, and owners wouldn't even know how to find their cats.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that just seems so f***ed up! Now what if this shady guy goes around collecting all the cats he can find? Who's to stop him if he were to start up a private non-profit rescue?

thoughts? facts? laws?

What made you ask about this? Are cat thieves common where you are? I'm pretty sure there aren't a lot of laws on this because it doesn't happen commonly. What would said thief be gaining from this? The hassle of trying to adopt out cats? or are we talking purebreds here? Or are we talking about a mentally disturbed individual? I'm a little confused as to why this would be a problem to begin with

 

[No Imagination]

I am with most of the others on this one. I see nothing wrong with an outdoor cat, as long as food is provided, water, and a safe (cool, heated) place to stay, and up to date on their rabies (at the least).

Otherwise, you don't have a cat, you are simply feeding the wildlife.

This is a relatively new opinion for me, as before I came to Mississippi I would have said the opposite, but, ohh well, times (and opinions) change.

 

[TrocarKarin]

One of my cats was a stray when I got him. He showed up in a friend's yard, skinny, and with half of his face badly abraded. We called the humane society, and told them we'd found a grey tabby, and to call us if anybody came looking for him. We didn't go beyond that (signs or anything), since I figured if somebody was looking, the humane society should be the first place they check.

I guess my view of outdoor cats is pretty negative. I live on a busy street, and so far, I've had to move 7 dead cats from outside my house. I have no problems with cats being outside - if they're fenced into a cat run or on a leash/harness. Dogs have leash laws, so I've never gotten why people think its acceptable to allow cats to roam around in their neighbor's yards. It doesn't seem fair to the cats (higher risk of disease, HBC, getting snatched up as coyote food), it doesn't seem fair to the neighbors who have to deal with somebody else's cat poop in their yards, and it doesn't seem fair to the wildlife that gets destroyed by outdoor cats.

 

[Minnerbelle]

What made you ask about this? Are cat thieves common where you are? I'm pretty sure there aren't a lot of laws on this because it doesn't happen commonly. What would said thief be gaining from this? The hassle of trying to adopt out cats? or are we talking purebreds here? Or are we talking about a mentally disturbed individual? I'm a little confused as to why this would be a problem to begin with

i've encountered a bunch of people all along the continuum of the two scenarios in my original post (the extreme ends) throughout my experiences in animal rescue. it's definitely not a common enough problem to warrant a law to be written... but every time i run into one of these i die a little inside. well established humane societies always seem to have a nice self-established policy on strays so that people who have lost their cats can go and find them, but i just can't find any rules that an individual or even an organization MUST follow.

...more along the lines of a mentally disturbed individual with a messiah complex.

 

[Minnerbelle]

One of my cats was a stray when I got him. He showed up in a friend's yard, skinny, and with half of his face badly abraded. We called the humane society, and told them we'd found a grey tabby, and to call us if anybody came looking for him. We didn't go beyond that (signs or anything), since I figured if somebody was looking, the humane society should be the first place they check.

I think you did the right thing. As long as you file a found report, then you're giving the owner as good a chance of finding their cat (and it sounds like your cat probably didn't have one to begin with), as if you were to have dropped the cat off at the humane society. Anyone who goes to the humane society to look for their lost cat will get to go and see all the animals who were brought in, as well as see the booklet of found reports.

My real beef is with the *****s who take cats who look very well cared for, sweet as can be, who probably have very loving parents that are worried sick.

I'm really didn't intend on starting an indoor vs. outdoor cat battle here. I think that debate generally ends up being as futile as the meat eating vs. vegetarian battle. Regardless of how anyone feels about where/how a cat should be housed I really don't think it's EVER up to an individual to take care of it because of the reasons I stated in above posts. If an individual wants to work with humane societies/animal control, that's one thing (even if it's just that one found report over the phone). But denying an owner the chance to see their cat again just because you don't agree that cats should be allowed outside is bullsh*t IMHO. It's illegal for an individual to confiscate an animal for animal cruelty... It has to go through animal control. I don't understand how this is any different. Actually I think this is worse because the animal isn't necessarily even being abused.

 

[marycatherine]

I'm not sure of the laws, but at my shelter we ask people to put up signs/fliers when they surrender an animal to us or report a found animal. A lot of times people "foster" the animal while they put up fliers and then they give us the animal (or keep it) if the owners haven't called in a few weeks.

 

[peachy3214]

I agree with both scarcelyheard and the other posters. I really believe that if it can be avoided you should keep your cat indoors, not only for your cats health but for the sake of wildlife. I have seen way too many cats hit by cars, maimed, and sick due to being allowed outdoors and many birds and other small animals injured and killed by cats. It is just all around not a good situation.

 

[Minnerbelle]

If I had my own car, every cat that ended up on my property without a collar/microship would be going to the shelter. If the owner gave a darn, one of the first places they would call to report their cat missing would be the shelter

We had people who did this at the shelter I worked at. I guess it really depends on the shelter you bring the cat to, but given that it is a large capacity shelter that impounds for the county (which are the ones people go to when looking for their lost pets... no one contacts every tiny rescue out there) you'd be burdening an already overburdened shelter with animals that don't need to be there. If it's an open admissions shelter, those animals might even be euthanized (though i'm pretty sure you've made comments about how the shelter you volunteer at is the gold standard for no-kill shelters).

In the law, animals are considered "objects" or "property". I donno... if someone put their TV in my yard and I take it, they have no legal basis on demanding I give it back, right?

Someone enlighten me.

In most places, there are laws saying that lost animals MUST be returned to the original owner if the owner claims the animal within a certain time frame. I believe in MA it's 1 yr. I believe you do have the right to tell the owner that if the animal comes into your property again, that you will humanely capture the animal and take the animal to the humane society (or that you will call animal control to take care of the nuisance). But I'm pretty darn sure you can't just keep the animal. Even if the animal was found on your property, I think the animal just counts as a "lost" object (which you are obligated to give back to the owner).

Actually I think in MA, there's a law that says if you find a lost object, you can keep it after a year or auction it, but if you auction it, you must put postings in 2 public places that you are going to auction said object...

 

[DVMDream]

I do not see any problem with outdoor cats as long as people understand the problems associated with having an outdoor cat; such as greater chance of abscesses due to fighs with other animals, possibility of getting hit by a car, possibility of someone stealing the cat (), lower life span (sometimes not always), and chances of getting FeLV/FIV increased. My problem lies with the people who refuse to see the possible complications. I had friend tell me that she was going to declaw her outdoor cat, she also did not agree that her cat would need the claws for self-defense against other animals (coyotes, owls, dogs, other cats, etc.)


To the OP: I feel that it is sick that anyone could pick up a cat off the street that someone possibly owned and just keep it. But, collars can be removed and the majority of animals that we have found with a microchip fail to actually register that microchip so it is absolutely pointless to attempt to search for the owner. IMO it would be really hard to implement a law against keeping a stray cat without first attempting to find the owner. There are so many stray cats on the street many without homes that it would be impossible for anyone to determine if the cat was picked up off the street or not. Also, people can pick up a cat off the street and keep it without ever saying anything or taking it to the vet. Even if someone did say they found the cat on the street when at the vet clinic and there is no collar or microchip; how is anyone going to force them to hang up fliers/call the shelters to report the cat found. In the area I live in there is easily 5-6 shelters, if not more, that a person would have to call to report a found or missing pet. Not only would it be difficult to enforce a law like this, but it would also cost a lot of money to keep the law enforced (anyone else want to throw more money into taxes??). It would be nice for there to be some sort of set-up to be sure people are not stealing pets, but IMO it would be really difficult to set-up an effective law against it and to prevent it.

 

[twelvetigers]

Not all cats can be indoor cats. My parents tend to feed strays and now have quite a few (that are neutered and vaccinated as soon as they can be put into a carrier safely) but they would never become indoor cats after that.

I keep my cats inside, but you can't expect everyone to do that. You can usually tell by looking when a cat is truly stray - they're skinny and maybe a bit skittish.

An another note, those of you who let the kitties outside (in the midwest/south) also have to worry about cytauxzoon.

 

[Minnerbelle]

To the OP: I feel that it is sick that anyone could pick up a cat off the street that someone possibly owned and just keep it. But, collars can be removed and the majority of animals that we have found with a microchip fail to actually register that microchip so it is absolutely pointless to attempt to search for the owner. IMO it would be really hard to implement a law against keeping a stray cat without first attempting to find the owner. There are so many stray cats on the street many without homes that it would be impossible for anyone to determine if the cat was picked up off the street or not. Also, people can pick up a cat off the street and keep it without ever saying anything or taking it to the vet. Even if someone did say they found the cat on the street when at the vet clinic and there is no collar or microchip; how is anyone going to force them to hang up fliers/call the shelters to report the cat found. In the area I live in there is easily 5-6 shelters, if not more, that a person would have to call to report a found or missing pet. Not only would it be difficult to enforce a law like this, but it would also cost a lot of money to keep the law enforced (anyone else want to throw more money into taxes??). It would be nice for there to be some sort of set-up to be sure people are not stealing pets, but IMO it would be really difficult to set-up an effective law against it and to prevent it.

Oh yeah, I totally agree that it would be impossible to enforce, and I don't think there should be any special effort put into enforcing it. But I think it would be nice to have a rule in place, just so an intervention is possible in case there is an excessive case of semi-stealing. Just like there's a law saying that wildlife can't be kept as pets, but there's no way to really enforce it. But if someone IS reported to have a household full of watever wild animals, that can be taken care of.

And no, I don't think anyone should have to call ALL the shelters in the area. That would be ridiculous. But if someone reports it to at least one place, the information is out there. It's up to the owner to call around to all the shelters in the area to see if their animal's turned up. But if NO reports are ever made... then you have no chance.

Also, there is always at least one agency in each county (usually animal control, or an associated shelter) that is responsible for impounding stray animals as a public health thing. It shouldn't be hard to implement something so that this agency is responsible for lost/found reports. I think all animal control (if not most) offices have to answer phones anyway, and they have to log all incoming strays already... it shouldn't be much more work to have them fill out a few more found reports every day (they literally take 2 minutes). And even if an animal has an unregistered microchip, that information can be put into the found report (or at least sent to the microchip registry, and a lot of times the vet's office/shelter that implanted the microchip). All of those things can really help reunite the animal with the owner, given that the owner at least has a record of the microchip information (the vet/shelter will also have a copy of the records).

I know it's not likely to happen anytime soon, but it gets really old being stuck associating with crazy cat people who do things that are WRONG and not being able to do anything about it. I know that as long as I'm in shelter med, I'll be associating with crazy cat people and I'm fine with that. But things like hoarding and cat stealing really push my buttons sometimes. I think that might be why I'm determined to be the staff veterinarian (who help the animals directly, but don't have to have personal interactions with as many of the crazy people at large). I've met people who bragged about stealing reptiles from pet stores and set them free, people who knowingly stole someone's pets because the owner was not "fit to have animals," etc... If I had concrete proof, then I would def have turned them in.

But the "rescuing" cats who are probably most definitely owned (I wouldn't be surprised if they actually had collars and these people removed them) is it looks like perfectly legal to do. It drives me nuts. I mean, even if it's not enforced at the individual level... I certainly hope that it can be enforced at an organization level.

sorry, i know i must be sounding crazy myself, and the whole problem must seem so small... but seeing it happen over and over is discouraging to say the least. every time i wonder about the "what if's" and it's infuriating every time.

i mean for those of you who don't have your cats microchipped, allow your cats outside, or don't have your microchip info registered and up to date - don't you think that you deserve a chance to get your cat back if some maniac scooped up your cat (free-roaming or escaped) because they assume that you're a horrible owner?

 

[DVMDream]

Also, there is always at least one agency in each county (usually animal control, or an associated shelter) that is responsible for impounding stray animals as a public health thing. It shouldn't be hard to implement something so that this agency is responsible for lost/found reports. I think all animal control (if not most) offices have to answer phones anyway, and they have to log all incoming strays already... it shouldn't be much more work to have them fill out a few more found reports every day (they literally take 2 minutes). And even if an animal has an unregistered microchip, that information can be put into the found report (or at least sent to the microchip registry, and a lot of times the vet's office/shelter that implanted the microchip). All of those things can really help reunite the animal with the owner, given that the owner at least has a record of the microchip information (the vet/shelter will also have a copy of the records).

It is nearly impossible to find the vet/ office that implanted the microchip. Our clinic gets microchips from our main warehouse and the company would have no clue as to which of the 18 hospitals within the group microchipped that specific animal (if they could even track the microchip to the group.) We do search for microchip numbers on our computer just in case they are a client (only once was the owner a client of ours).

I know it's not likely to happen anytime soon, but it gets really old being stuck associating with crazy cat people who do things that are WRONG and not being able to do anything about it. I know that as long as I'm in shelter med, I'll be associating with crazy cat people and I'm fine with that. But things like hoarding and cat stealing really push my buttons sometimes. I think that might be why I'm determined to be the staff veterinarian (who help the animals directly, but don't have to have personal interactions with as many of the crazy people at large).

The not wanting to deal with crazy cat people made me laugh. I have dealt with a few of them at the vet clinic, but I am sure you have seen much, much worse at the shelter and I completely agree; the further away from them I can be the better. I also want to say that I believe cat hoarding to be a psychological/mental disorder. I can not remember what school it is, but one of the vet schools did lots of research on animal hoarding and it has been concluded that it is actually a form of dementia (I believe do not quote me). The research may be a few years old, but it was definitely interesting and eye-opening. I believe until there are better methods for helping hoarders that the problem will always exist. The worst thing that happens to a hoarder is that they spend a small amount of time in jail, do some community service, pay a fine and can not own animals in that town/county. So they just jump county lines and move and start all over and no one makes an attempt to treat the underlying psychological problem. So, until there is a better method for that I believe hoarding will always be an issue.

ETA: Here is the website with tons of info on animal hoarding, including research articles, etc, etc. (I did a presentation on animal hoarding and have been interested in it ever since): Animal Hoarding

sorry, i know i must be sounding crazy myself, and the whole problem must seem so small... but seeing it happen over and over is discouraging to say the least. every time i wonder about the "what if's" and it's infuriating every time.

I do not think you sound crazy, just passionate about something that you hold personally close to you. I get the same way when I am talking about something that means a lot to me or affects me personally. It is completely normal and allows people to improve upon situations that they see need to be improved.

 

[168135]

I *used* to volunteer at a no-kill shelter.

Anyway, I'm reminded of this article (or one like it... it's been a while since I came across it): http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/science/29angi.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

My Natural History prof HATES roaming cats. I'm also sick and tired of seeing them dead on the side of the road. Or 12 years old, super skinny, and full of mammory gland tumors like the girl I found wandering around my house in September. I don't even know how I feel about barn cats... here, coyotes are starting to not fear people in come onto their properity... what a way for a cat to meet it's maker. Or the person who let their cats roam on the street leading to my high school at 9am on a Wednesday morning when the traffic is horrible! It ran out in front of a van, got hit, we ran around asking neighbors who owned the cat, the people who we thought owned the cat wasn't home, so we rushed it to the vet clinic where it was later put down. The next week, their other cat ran out in front of us on my way to school *headdesk* Also, there is a cat on our street down home that is allowed to roam... the neighbors are threatening to take it to the shelter... it sits outside our friend's window and TERRORIZES her indoor cats! Her cats freak when that cat wanders on to her property... freak so bad that one of her cats turned around bit her and scratched her arm to pieces when she tried to remove her from the window and put her in another room. That cat was adopted from a shelter that is okay with barn cats, but wouldn't let you adopt if you lived in a town/suburban area if you planned on letting it roam. It could have changed since then... I'll look into it

Anyway, my family's cat is strictly indoors... yes, she did used to get one now and again, but that's why she has a collar with our phone number.

 

[dyachei]

i've encountered a bunch of people all along the continuum of the two scenarios in my original post (the extreme ends) throughout my experiences in animal rescue. it's definitely not a common enough problem to warrant a law to be written... but every time i run into one of these i die a little inside. well established humane societies always seem to have a nice self-established policy on strays so that people who have lost their cats can go and find them, but i just can't find any rules that an individual or even an organization MUST follow.

...more along the lines of a mentally disturbed individual with a messiah complex.

Ok, thanks for answering that. My opinion is similar to others on here. it wouldn't really be enforceable. How is someone going to know that the animal a family picked up isn't a Walmart adoption or a legal transfer from someone else over picking up a possible pet off the street? And maybe it's just the difference in location, but I haven't encountered this problem.

On the note of being able to find lost pets, there is a US wide website that shelters in my area have used to try and help reunite lost pets. I found a cat with a foot abscess my first year here and I was directed to it. Essentially, the person who lost the pet has to put in information about the pet, but if the shelter recognizes the search terms (like black cat, gold eyes, male, and in the area), it can help reunite pets. http://www.thepetrescue.com/. I'm sure there are other websites, too.

 

[HandD42]

I recently came across this exact same scenario.

Went to Slumberland to buy some furniture came out to an absolutely emaciated grey tabby wailing plaintively in the parking lot. Well, my heart pretty much broke so I scooped her up and took her home. Definitely had every intention of dropping her off at animal control until I learned that if I did that it was exactly like I was surrendering her. I COULD NOT call the AC and find out if she was picked up, COULD NOT request to adopt her if she came up for adoption and my request to adopt her in the future would have no bearing on whether she was euthanized or adopted out. Not sure about shelters in your area but here some places are so over crowded with cats that many don't even make it to adoption.

What is the sense in letting a perfectly fine cat that I wanted to keep get euthanized because the system is too overcrowded to handle all the need????

I did post on Craigslist, several times and made a post at the AC website for found pets (heard nothing). Also had her checked for a microchip at the vet's office.

I took her to the vet, paid for all of her vaccinations and her spay out of my own pocket. If that makes me a bad person so be it. But I could not see the sense of leaving another cat to live on the street (in a MN winter no less) to have a bunch more kittens. If there is an owner out there I really don't feel bad, if you have an outdoor cat, it needs to be spayed/neutered and fed. Enough said.

Had the cat been well fed and altered I would have done nothing but give it a few pats.

 

[dgm]

This just seems like one more risk associated with letting your cat outside. If everyone in your area lets their cat out, or they all know you and your cat, the risk is probably lower.If I were to let my cat out, I'd probably have a collar with ID tag, and a microchip on it, so people would realize that the cat DOES have a home. But if I leave any of my property outside, there is the risk that someone will take it.

 

[Minnerbelle]

What is the sense in letting a perfectly fine cat that I wanted to keep get euthanized because the system is too overcrowded to handle all the need????

none at all. i'm not advocating at all that animals should be picked up off the street and taken to the shelter. i've encountered people who take all of their neighborhood animals and bring them to the shelter "to teach the owners a lesson," and i wanted to scream "well yes, i understand that an outdoor cat generally has a shorter lifespan and all, but you're possibly shortening that lifespan from 2-5 years to a couple of weeks by bringing the cat here! subjecting that animal to the shelter environment in itself is pretty cruel unless the cat NEEDS to be there."

sorry, i know i digress because obviously you took in an animal that needed help. i think it's perfectly fine for you to take care of the cat yourself, especially if it's a cat that's obviously in need. and it looks like you put in an effort to put the information out there. of course it's the owner's responsibility to try and find the animal (scouring craigslist, calling AC and rescues, asking neighbors, putting up signs, etc...)... but that's hard to do IF someone takes a neighbors well groomed cat and decides to hide it.

in your case, i find it really shady that animal control wouldn't let you foster the cat after filing a found report. that's not cool at all. that's what we encouraged at the shelters i've worked/volunteered at.

i mean a vast majority of strays will never have owners come looking for them so i know it's a moot point... but sometimes it's just as heart wrenching to see families come to the shelter desperately looking for their missing animals, as it is to see the animals in the shelter themselves. to know that there are people out there (even if it's a few sickos) that do this purposely makes me want to puke. i actually like seeing pet-owner reunions even more than adoptions!

 

[Minnerbelle]

Ok, thanks for answering that. My opinion is similar to others on here. it wouldn't really be enforceable. How is someone going to know that the animal a family picked up isn't a Walmart adoption or a legal transfer from someone else over picking up a possible pet off the street? And maybe it's just the difference in location, but I haven't encountered this problem.

my hope isn't really to enforce it on the family that adopted the animal, because in the grand scheme of things, the chances that the one stray that someone picks off the street and adopts actually has a loving owner is pretty slim. and generally, people who find healthy altered cats off the streets are at least on a lookout for "lost kitty" signs, and aren't adamant about keeping that animal themselves.

it's more that i wish there was a law to enforce in cases where people deliberately go around stealing cats that they KNOW have owners. because i dunno what you all think, but i think that's sooo wrong. i've known at least 3 people from different places who were out on a mission to do just that. even when confronted, they say that it's perfectly legal... and it seems to be true! that's the sad part. at the very least, i think all foster networks/animal rescues should be obligated to do *something* no matter how small that something is, to put information out to possible owners. but i guess that's just me. i think it's sick that you could potentially have an organization whose secret mission it is to adopt out stolen animals (trust me i've seen it).

i mean i totally get that an owner who lets their cat outside and/or doesn't have a registered microchip is taking a risk, but that doesn't mean their cat is up for grabs right?

 

[Minnerbelle]

It is nearly impossible to find the vet/ office that implanted the microchip. Our clinic gets microchips from our main warehouse and the company would have no clue as to which of the 18 hospitals within the group microchipped that specific animal (if they could even track the microchip to the group.) We do search for microchip numbers on our computer just in case they are a client (only once was the owner a client of ours).

Interesting. I guess it depends on the manufacture, as well as what type of vet clinic you are. I didn't even know that it could be tracked at all, until recently a vet i know got contacted from the microchip registry about a found cat with an unregistered chip that was implanted at his office. he was then able to look through his records and contact the owner who "forgot" to mail the registration card in. I thought that was awesome... but apparently it's not a widespread thing.

 

[Danae00]

.

 

[bunnity]

I think the whole indoor/outdoor debate is really being affected by where people live and where they grew up. Right now I live in Philadelphia: no real yards, heavy traffic, no one knows their neighbors, lots of FeLV/FIV positive strays. I would never in a million years let a cat go outside here, and I do feel sad for all the cats here that are allowed outside. There are so many hazards here and it seems inevitable that they will be squashed - this city is all streets and crazy drivers. I think if we were talking about an area like where I grew up, where there was little traffic and we all knew each other (and each others' cats) it is a little less of a dire situation. I still would not personally let a cat outside there, but there were plenty of cats that lived 15+ years as indoor/outdoor in that neighborhood.

The other thing is that most people are not as educated about vet medicine as a bunch of vet students (as it should be). It is important for us to be explaining things like FIV to cat owners we know. We forget that people do not know things that we might consider common knowledge - I had to explain to someone that yes, in this city people can and will steal your fluffy monstrosity of a purebred Havanese because they can and will make money off it. I realized that I only know that because I see people looking for their stolen fluffy little dogs on a daily basis at my job. I totally still judge people but I think it is unfair to judge without making a real effort to educate as well.

 

[ReadyBeVet]

I found a cat in late Fall. It was starting to get cold and I didn't want the little guy outside. I kept him in my basement away from my cat as I didn't know if he had FIV/FelV.

I posted on Craigslist, put up flyers, Petfinder Classified Ad, called the shelters, and in the meantime I also made arrangements for him with a cat rescue that I volunteer for. After about 5 days the owner finally claimed him. I think that this is the right thing to do- put out ads, let the public know via flyers and the humane society. I used to work at a high-volume kill shelter and didn't want to over burden the system when the cat was perfectly fine in my basement.

The rescue that was going to take this kitty suggested that I did the WRONG thing in giving him back to his owners because he was an outdoor cat and his owners=the devil and obviously didn't care for him. They actually chastised me for giving him back... I wonder how often that happens?????

On topic- A friend of a friend had their obedience titled Golden Retriever get loose. They couldn't find the sweet guy, looks everywhere, placed ads, etc. They finally found him a few streets away fenced into someone's yard. The person who had him just decided to KEEP him because he was so well behaved. DESPITE the fact that he had tags on and was SOMEONE ELSES PET! WTF is wrong with people?

 

[sumstorm]

I DO have a huge issue with outdoor cats or indoor/outdoor cats because they do a shocking amount of damage to the environment. I could care less about the risks to the cat; that is the cat and the cat owner's problem. I actually don't mind outdoor cats that are in enclosures; at least then the native animal has to get into the enclosure to become prey for fun or food. We routinely surrender any and all cats we encounter anywhere on or near our property (ie state land, county land, anything but private property) to our local animal control with the full knowledge that unless an owner claims them, they likely won't survive. We also have some species at risk on our property, and I personally do value those more than stray, feral or roaming cats. Personal decision. I don't shoot them with buckshot; a common & legal practice in my home county.

As for laws; every state, county, and municipality will be different. Most of the ones I have lived in require surrender to the shelter/AC for the reclaim period. One thing I have learned is that in poorer and/or less organized counties, the AC officers may NOT know the various laws that affect what has to be done with an animal to make the 'finders' legally clear to own the animal.

I have actually witnessed (and shut down an HS because of) over-zealous individuals use 'stray' or 'running loose' as an excuse to steal animals that they didn't feel were being appropriatly cared for. By running loose, I do mean opening gates, enticing animals away, etc (and I do believe they were outright stealing in some instances.) Heck, there is a show on TV that shows men cutting into a fenced yard to steal an animal; apparently it is the new acceptable behavior.

So, in the case you mentioned, both could be in the right, both could be in the wrong, or somewhere in between. I prefer counties where ALL found animals must be fully surrendered for re-claim or adoption because I think it clarifies a lot of this.

 

[sumstorm]

And no, I don't think anyone should have to call ALL the shelters in the area. That would be ridiculous. But if someone reports it to at least one place, the information is out there. It's up to the owner to call around to all the shelters in the area to see if their animal's turned up. But if NO reports are ever made... then you have no chance.

Also, there is always at least one agency in each county (usually animal control, or an associated shelter) that is responsible for impounding stray animals as a public health thing. It shouldn't be hard to implement something so that this agency is responsible for lost/found reports. I think all animal control (if not most) offices have to answer phones anyway, and they have to log all incoming strays already... it shouldn't be much more work to have them fill out a few more found reports every day (they literally take 2 minutes). And even if an animal has an unregistered microchip, that information can be put into the found report (or at least sent to the microchip registry, and a lot of times the vet's office/shelter that implanted the microchip). All of those things can really help reunite the animal with the owner, given that the owner at least has a record of the microchip information (the vet/shelter will also have a copy of the records).

Actually, where we live, there are 6 counties together (some odd shapes) and a state line. Unfortunatly, none of the counties communicate with each other, so when anyone loses an animal, I encourage them to contact all the shelters, and that doesn't include the non-profits.

As for forms...with 80+ a day coming in locally and more calls, at 2 min/form, that is more than 2.5 unfunded hours. We don't even have anyone on the phone all day. they will tell you to keep checking if you lost a pet (must come in) and surrender if you find one (3d hold if not labeled feral/aggressive/ill/injured.) whole thing frustrates me.

 

[marycatherine]

Interesting. I guess it depends on the manufacture, as well as what type of vet clinic you are. I didn't even know that it could be tracked at all, until recently a vet i know got contacted from the microchip registry about a found cat with an unregistered chip that was implanted at his office. he was then able to look through his records and contact the owner who "forgot" to mail the registration card in. I thought that was awesome... but apparently it's not a widespread thing.

I think it depends on the company. We found a dog that had been microchipped in New Mexico (I live in Virginia) and were able to track the owners down by calling the shelter out there.

 

[jpeterman13]

On topic- A friend of a friend had their obedience titled Golden Retriever get loose. They couldn't find the sweet guy, looks everywhere, placed ads, etc. They finally found him a few streets away fenced into someone's yard. The person who had him just decided to KEEP him because he was so well behaved. DESPITE the fact that he had tags on and was SOMEONE ELSES PET! WTF is wrong with people?

words cannot express how insanely angry I would be ...someone would be getting punched in the face.

 

[August West]

Ughhhh so my cat has no collar or microchip and he's an indoor/outdoor cat. I think that's pretty lame of you to tell me that I don't deserve to own the cat. (well it's my family's cat) Just because it doesn't have identification, doesn't mean that we don't take great care of it. I think its just shady of you to make a generalization like that. I live on a big farm so the cat doesn't roam off of my property...but still...don't be so closed minded

No chip or collar? So if your cat were to get lost, you would expect the responsibility to fall on others to help ensure that the cat makes his or her way back home? Why not just get the $20 microchip to make life easier in case the cat got out?

 

[philomycus]

I lost my completely indoor cat this week. He's 8 years old, NEVER been outside, and has never made a dash for the door. I found him 48 hours later. For 2 days I was completely devastated. I put flyers ALL OVER the neighborhood. I ened up fidning him on my own, and I got very lucky.

So if someone "stole" my cat, I have a problem. Should I microchip my cat... yep I am now. But if someone took him and refused to give him up- it's theft, period.

"""No chip or collar? So if your cat were to get lost, you would expect the responsibility to fall on others to help ensure that the cat makes his or her way back home? Why not just get the $20 microchip to make life easier in case the cat got out?"""""

Until you've lost an animal this way, it's easy for you to have your big mighter than everyone else opinion.

I missed classes and searched for over 26 hours of those 48 to find him. Does this make me irresponsible??? Get an INFORMED opinion. Accidents happen -as in my case. Was I irresponsible when I gave him sub-q fluids 5 years ago for weeks to save his life? Was I an irresponsible owenr when I pay every 2 years for the ultrasound of his heart?

And if someone's going to "take the cat" does a microchip matter? Microchips only help with people who look for them. It's not a GPS unit that I can Google to see where he's at.

 

[August West]

"""No chip or collar? So if your cat were to get lost, you would expect the responsibility to fall on others to help ensure that the cat makes his or her way back home? Why not just get the $20 microchip to make life easier in case the cat got out?"""""

Until you've lost an animal this way, it's easy for you to have your big mighter than everyone else opinion.

I missed classes and searched for over 26 hours of those 48 to find him. Does this make me irresponsible??? Get an INFORMED opinion. Accidents happen -as in my case. Was I irresponsible when I gave him sub-q fluids 5 years ago for weeks to save his life? Was I an irresponsible owenr when I pay every 2 years for the ultrasound of his heart?

And if someone's going to "take the cat" does a microchip matter? Microchips only help with people who look for them. It's not a GPS unit that I can Google to see where he's at.

I experienced a story nearly identical to yours. So I guess that I have earned the right to be mighty, eh? I posted the fliers, knocked on doors and contacted the shelters and felt awful every time I opened the door and Kona was not there yelling at me for dinner. He is not collered, tagged and microchipped. I had to learn the hard way. But at the end of the day, the responsibility falls on our shoulders. These are animals and we domesticated them to depend on us to care for them. I believe part of that responsibility is identifying them as such to the rest of the community just as we would make sure that young children did not leave home without some sort of contact and identification on them.

And as for stealing cats, I have never heard of such a thing. If somebody is really that desperate for a companion I can surely direct them to countless shelters and rescues, or they can even come and meet me at the adoptions I help run every Sunday. I'll hook 'em up! Real cheap....

 

[CanadianGolden]

Anybody who lets their cat roam without a collar or microchip doesn't deserve the pet. Anybody who lets their cat roam period doesn't deserve the pet. We don't allow dogs/pigs/horses/ferrets to roam the streets, so why is it okay to allow cats to roam?

If someone is ignorant enough to let their cat roam without any idenfication and doesn't even come looking for the cat, well, they're out of luck. If I had my own car, every cat that ended up on my property without a collar/microship would be going to the shelter. If the owner gave a darn, one of the first places they would call to report their cat missing would be the shelter

I don't know of any laws in my area... I can ask the shelter next time I'm in to volunteer. I don't really know much about it... I'd like to though... I went to a talk a few years ago about animals in the law. In the law, animals are considered "objects" or "property". I donno... if someone put their TV in my yard and I take it, they have no legal basis on demanding I give it back, right?


Someone enlighten me.

Whoa, generalizing! My indoor-only cats don't wear collars because they're far more likely to get them caught on something in my house and strangle themselves than they are to be outdoors and need the ID. They are not microchipped because of the injection site fibrosarcoma risk.

And yet one of them escaped, once, and it took 12 hours to catch her. Guess that makes me irresponsible(?)

And, about the shelter--I recently found a dog and took it to the shelter, gave them a description and had it scanned for a chip, then took it home until I could call the vet clinic on its rabies tag (a couple days due to the holiday). I called twice to see if anyone had called about a lost dog. They reported no calls. When we reunited the dog with its owner, she said she had called the shelter repeatedly and they said no dogs had been reported found (this dog was an obvious breed and there's no way they didn't realize the descriptions matched--they just didn't look at the log book or something). The shelter isn't a reliable resource when looking for a lost animal.

 

[August West]

Whoa, generalizing! My indoor-only cats don't wear collars because they're far more likely to get them caught on something in my house and strangle themselves than they are to be outdoors and need the ID. They are not microchipped because of the injection site fibrosarcoma risk.

And yet one of them escaped, once, and it took 12 hours to catch her. Guess that makes me irresponsible(?)

And, about the shelter--I recently found a dog and took it to the shelter, gave them a description and had it scanned for a chip, then took it home until I could call the vet clinic on its rabies tag (a couple days due to the holiday). I called twice to see if anyone had called about a lost dog. They reported no calls. When we reunited the dog with its owner, she said she had called the shelter repeatedly and they said no dogs had been reported found (this dog was an obvious breed and there's no way they didn't realize the descriptions matched--they just didn't look at the log book or something). The shelter isn't a reliable resource when looking for a lost animal.

I recommend the break-away cat collars. You will never have to worry about the little ones strangling themselves again.

 

[168135]

Whoa, generalizing! My indoor-only cats don't wear collars because they're far more likely to get them caught on something in my house and strangle themselves than they are to be outdoors and need the ID. They are not microchipped because of the injection site fibrosarcoma risk.

And yet one of them escaped, once, and it took 12 hours to catch her. Guess that makes me irresponsible(?)

Has anyone had a cat get their collar caught on something in the house and strangle themselves? Just wondering. Mine hasn't.

If you haven't have been able to find your cat, who would you blame?


Just thinking about this... there is this woman in the states who knew a neighbor who let his dogs and cats wander while he went out of town for weeks on end. No identification but people knew these animals belonged to this guy. Animal control did nothing about it for whatever reason. One cat shows up at this woman's house. The cat was attacked by something and his whole back end was infected because of the bite wound. Guy was away on business, so she took the cat to the vet. Woman contacts man as soon as he gets back to let him know what happened. Guy flips out that she has his cat and demands she return it... gets mad at her for taking the cat to the vet... claims that the cat would have done fine without seeing a vet. She refused to give it back and was planning on adopting it out when he healed. Guy threatens to call the police. Woman says that she has vet bills and the vet backing her up that the cat was abused. Cat dies due to injury. Guy backs off, but continues to leave his other pets roam while out of town. I'm pretty sure she mentioned that if she saw any more of his animals, she'd take them to the shelter.

Was she right to take the animal in the first place? Was she right to refuse to give the animal back to him? Is it right of her to take his other animals, which aren't injured, to the shelter if she finds them on her property?

 

[DVMDream]

Has anyone had a cat get their collar caught on something in the house and strangle themselves? Just wondering. Mine hasn't.

No, but if she did not have one of those snap-collars then yes she would have. My one cat Pepper (not with us anymore) scratched up the bottom of the box spings underneath my parents' bed. He did not have a collar, he hated them and would get his paws stuck in them trying to get them off, but he was microchipped (used to come automatically with adoptions, no longer does). He never got out anyway was too afraid of EVERYTHING, including the outdoors. Anyway, back on topic. After he scratched up the bottom of the box springs under the bed the fabric hung underneath the bed and the edges of the fabric were frayed. So our other cat, P.J., must have been playing or sleeping under there at one point. I happened to see her walking through the house with no collar on, which only happens after she gets a bath and I know no one had given her a bath recently. So, I went on the search for the missing collar. I found it very tightly wound up into the frayed fabric of the box springs under the bed. I could not just pull it loose myself I had to go get scissors to remove the collar from under there. Had that collar not had one of those automatic release clasps she could have easily strangled herself. After that I just cut all of the fabric off of the bottom of the box springs to prevent it from happening again. So, yes I believe that cats can get their collars caught onto things within the house that most people would never think of.

 

[dyachei]

Has anyone had a cat get their collar caught on something in the house and strangle themselves? Just wondering. Mine hasn't.

My kitten wears a breakaway collar but still managed to get stuck with it on the blinds. She didn't strangle herself but she did freak out a lot and only managed to get free because I was there to pull her free. So yes, things like that can happen.

 

[gilch]

Well, it is illegal to let your cats stray in our city. It's dangerous for the cats (urban coyotes, hawks, cars, even sometimes bratty kids), it's dangerous for some people (pregnant women), and they are a bit of a nuisance. But mainly my biggest concern is for the cats.

Really surprised none of the pre-veters or vet students have latched onto this yet. Cats are the definitive host for Toxoplasma gondii, which can pose a problem for developing fetuses--leading to spontaneous abortion/ severe birth defects or for the severely immunocompromised (read--AIDS and toxoplasmic encephalitis). But don't blame the cat! Most toxoplasma infections with confirmed causes are from undercooked or raw meat. Other sources include produce, soil, water, and yes, the litter box. Toxoplasma gondii has an very complex life cycle and is very hardy; sporozoites can persist in the environment for at least 2 years.

Yes, pregnant women should not change the litter box. If they do, it should be daily and with a mask. If a city had a rampant epidemic of toxo, then yeah, I'd say keep your cats indoors to slow infection rates--don't think that would make much of a difference, though. A pregnant woman walking down the street that passes a feral or pet feline is in no danger whatsoever. Cat owners are at no greater risk; veterinarians are at no greater risk.

Kind of my soapbox, here. Defenders of cats unite!

 

[CatVet2Be]

Thank you Gilch for posting that. I just didn't have the energy tonight to get into "cats are not evil little disease carriers who are trying to wipe out the human race".

On the subject of addressing stuff: fibrosarcomas occur in a very small percentage of cats and typically occur at sites of multiple injections (ex vaccinating repeatedly in the same spot over many years). I'd say the odds of a cat sneaking out and being picked up by someone else are much higher than the chance it would cause a fibrosarcoma. All of my cats are now chipped and I would recommend it to anyone who owns a pet. I've seen a lot of pet-owner reunions over the years, including a few indoor only cats that got out.

 

[parietal]

I think the whole indoor/outdoor debate is really being affected by where people live and where they grew up.

Totally agree on this. I grew up in a township that was pretty animal-safe and we had an indoor/outdoor cat who had a happy, long life. When I moved to an urban area and got my own cat, there is no way she would have been anything but an indoor-only. Then I moved to the country. Here, a good farm cat is very valuable. My indoor cats stayed indoors but I now have barn cats, too. They have warm places to sleep, a heated water bowl, food, regular dewormer, vaccines, Frontline and good veterinary care. But they live outside and probably always will.

So I guess I have two points:
First, if you ever plan to work as a vet in the country, you will be shooting yourself in the foot if you oppose outdoor cats. Farm cats have a job that is possibly just as or more important than working dogs.

Second, to Minnerbelle's original point, I think a lot depends on the condition of the cat as well as the environment in which is found. If the animal is clearly healthy and happy it's a completely different case than if the animal is emaciated, injured or sick. Or an unspayed adult female, for that matter.

When I worked with a mixed-animal vet, one of the things I loved about her is that she made sure to check whether the farm cats or dogs needed vaccines, dewormer or anything else whenever she was on a call. Not only was this good for her business, but she also ensured that farm dogs and cats would get vet care that they might otherwise have not. (It's amazing how farm cats disappear anytime they see a cat carrier!) She also made ambulatory visits to euthanize farm dogs so they could be at home and at peace when they died rather than stressed out in a vet's office. I loved that, too, and hope to do all of that in my own mixed practice someday.

Anyway, sorry for the tangent, I just wanted to remind people that rural clients/vets are likely to see the indoor-outdoor problem much differently than urban ones.

Edited to add:

Most toxoplasma infections with confirmed causes are from undercooked or raw meat. Other sources include produce, soil, water, and yes, the litter box. ... Kind of my soapbox, here. Defenders of cats unite!

Totally agree, gilch. Thanks for stepping up to the soapbox on this issue.

 

[Danae00]

.

 

[CanadianGolden]

If you haven't have been able to find your cat, who would you blame?

Myself, of course...but I'd do the same if they strangled on a collar or got a fibrosarcoma in a nonresectable area because of a microchip.

What about the responsibility of the shelter? You said people should call the shelter...which is clearly not capable of reunited lost animals and their owners. Isn't that an issue, too?

I recommend the break-away cat collars. You will never have to worry about the little ones strangling themselves again.

Have used them in the past. Cats take them off immediately and hide them.


And, for the toxo discussion: Toxoplasma is not infectious until it has sporulated, which means that if the litterbox is cleaned daily, the cleaner will not become infected. However, there are other diseases that could be transmitted via fecal oral route and I wouldn't really recommend gardening bare-handed to anyone, much less pregnant women who are, if anything, immunocompromised.

Oh, and many women already have positive toxo titers prior to pregnancy, and if they do, my understanding is there is no risk to the fetus from further exposure.

 

[August West]

Just thinking about this... there is this woman in the states who knew a neighbor who let his dogs and cats wander while he went out of town for weeks on end. No identification but people knew these animals belonged to this guy. Animal control did nothing about it for whatever reason. One cat shows up at this woman's house. The cat was attacked by something and his whole back end was infected because of the bite wound. Guy was away on business, so she took the cat to the vet. Woman contacts man as soon as he gets back to let him know what happened. Guy flips out that she has his cat and demands she return it... gets mad at her for taking the cat to the vet... claims that the cat would have done fine without seeing a vet. She refused to give it back and was planning on adopting it out when he healed. Guy threatens to call the police. Woman says that she has vet bills and the vet backing her up that the cat was abused. Cat dies due to injury. Guy backs off, but continues to leave his other pets roam while out of town. I'm pretty sure she mentioned that if she saw any more of his animals, she'd take them to the shelter.

Was she right to take the animal in the first place? Was she right to refuse to give the animal back to him? Is it right of her to take his other animals, which aren't injured, to the shelter if she finds them on her property?

All I know is that we continue to domesticate these animals; therefore, when we adopt them into our homes and lives we are accepting full responsibility for their well-being. And if others fail to fulfill their end of the unspoken agreement, somebody should be commended for stepping up and filling in the void.

While stealing cats is hardly a problem that I am aware of, I do know that there are over 3 million stray cats roaming the streets of Los Angeles alone as a result of our society's apathy, irresponsibility and negligence. Just saying...

 

[August West]

Myself, of course...but I'd do the same if they strangled on a collar or got a fibrosarcoma in a nonresectable area because of a microchip.

It is a fact that thousands of animals are relocated to their homes due to these microchips every months. What I would like to know is whether there is even any substantiated evidence that these microchips are responsible for any formation of fibrosarcoma? How many cats and dogs have been verified to have gotten cancer as a direct result of being chipped? I am pretty sure that millions of domestic pets have been implanted with microchips, without reports of significant problems. It is important to make these distinctions and facts clear before making recommendations in either direction for ourselves and our patients.

 

[DVMDream]

It is a fact that thousands of animals are relocated to their homes due to these microchips every months. What I would like to know is whether there is even any substantiated evidence that these microchips are responsible for any formation of fibrosarcoma? How many cats and dogs have been verified to have gotten cancer as a direct result of being chipped? I am pretty sure that millions of domestic pets have been implanted with microchips, without reports of significant problems. It is important to make these distinctions and facts clear before making recommendations in either direction for ourselves and our patients.

I did a very, very, very brief search on microchips and fibrosarcomas and came up with this. Warining: not a scientific journal, but it has references to scientific journals. It basically shows that there has not been a link to microchips and fibrosarcomas. Only 1 case of a dog where the only coincidence was that the sarcoma was in the same area as the MC. And a study that showed that mice that are genetically pre-disposed to sarcomas tended to get a sarcoma after being MCed. I have to go catch a plane back home so I can not do any more searching now, but I would think it would be rare for a MC to cause a fibrosarcoma. Vaccines cause fibrosarcomas because of the additives in the vaccine; same thing goes for corticosteroid injections. But, if you find anything else post it here because it would be interesting to see if dogs or cats can get a fibroscaroma from a MC, but I still think it would be very, very rare.

 

[gilch]

Continuing the toxo discussion--

Yes, gloves while gardening is a must for pregnant women. Washing the produce thoroughly is also important. But the fact remains that in an average cat population, the level of toxo is ~ 1%. Cats become more resistant to passing oocysts as they age. And, as mentioned above, the oocysts take greater than 1 day to sporolate and become sporozoites --infective. The earlier in gestation, the less likely the fetus will get toxo from a new infection in the mother. That also goes along with greater risk to the fetus if it does get it. The danger to pregnant women and fetuses from wandering cats, whether feral or domesticated is next to nothing. If a women had toxo before becoming pregnant, it is highly unlikely that she will contract a new infection--but it has been known to happen with significantly different strains. An example of cats and toxo relatedness--I am 20 yrs old, have had multiple cats and have lived with indoor/outdoor cats for that entire time, have worked as vet assistant (been up to my elbows in cat poop) and eaten a fair bit of undercooked meat & rather a lot more produce from a home garden--the cats had access to the soil. I have never had toxoplasmosis (diagnosed by blood test).

To Danae00, I'm really glad you know there is no danger of getting toxoplasmosis from a passing cat--spread the word, would you ? Lots of cats get dumped when a family member becomes pregnant. If your city has a loose cats ban, that's because of the other reasons you mentioned, not because of toxo...unless your city council/legislature is uninformed.


As for the micro chipping--my local shelter, I am 99% sure, does not have a microchip reader. Is that terribly unusual?

 

[168135]

What about the responsibility of the shelter? You said people should call the shelter...which is clearly not capable of reunited lost animals and their owners. Isn't that an issue, too?

I don't know what you're getting at there.

I donno... calling a shelter when your pet is missing makes common sense to me. If someone had found my cat, brought it in, and the shelter had no idea it was my cat, then I'd be out a cat. One shelter I was in had a "Lost Animal" book and the other had a bulletain board. If someone brought in a cat with that description, they'd know how to get a hold of you. More often than not, most lost cats never made it to the shelter for whatever reason or found someplace else, but it's nice to have all your bases covered, right? Our cat got out one day and was gone for 8 hours. We called the shelter to report her missing and asked if they wanted a picture of her. Turns out most of the staff remember her and there was already a picture of her at the shelter.

Yes, my cat did get out. She had a collar but no ID/microchip. I was 16 at the time, we had the cat for about 6 months, it was our first, and I was still trying to convince my mom the importance of ID AND annual vet visits.

 

[August West]

I did a very, very, very brief search on microchips and fibrosarcomas and came up with this. Warining: not a scientific journal, but it has references to scientific journals. It basically shows that there has not been a link to microchips and fibrosarcomas. Only 1 case of a dog where the only coincidence was that the sarcoma was in the same area as the MC. And a study that showed that mice that are genetically pre-disposed to sarcomas tended to get a sarcoma after being MCed. I have to go catch a plane back home so I can not do any more searching now, but I would think it would be rare for a MC to cause a fibrosarcoma. Vaccines cause fibrosarcomas because of the additives in the vaccine; same thing goes for corticosteroid injections. But, if you find anything else post it here because it would be interesting to see if dogs or cats can get a fibroscaroma from a MC, but I still think it would be very, very rare.

Until I discover evidence to the contrary, I would tend to agree with your analysis, and appreciate the link. I was aware of these studies already as they led me to do some further investigation in the past. I, however, was also unable to find evidence of such cases reported in any of the millions of cats and dogs that receive microchips. Have a safe flight.