Travel nursing vs Doctor

[scoopdaboop]

If you could go back in time, knowing that the money is good in travel nursing, with the option of being a NP, or CRNA, would you be a nurse?

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[DOVinciRobot]

Not a chance.

 

[Espressso]

Yeah, not even close for me. A major part of why I decided on medicine was to lead and make decisions and quarterback a medical team. Can't ever do that as a NP or nurse unfortunately.

 

[ciestar]

If i was solely in it for the money… absolutely.
i have a friend who will be making 50k in three months only working 36 hours a week.

 

[scoopdaboop]

If i was solely in it for the money… absolutely.
i have a friend who will be making 50k in three months only working 36 hours a week.

115 an hour for a nurse. Nuts

 

[DO2015CA]

115 an hour for a nurse. Nuts

As the healthcare system collapses and nursing is becoming the rate limiting factor, this totally makes sense. Some hospitals are "full" even though they have physical beds because they dont have anyone to staff them. I know nurses that are saying enough is enough and are walking away completely.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

If you could go back in time, knowing that the money is good in travel nursing, with the option of being a NP, or CRNA, would you be a nurse?

Well seeing as I was a nurse in a past life, and I did travel nursing, if I knew COVID was coming and all the crazy cash they are throwing out right now I might have thought about delaying. The thing is tho, I didn't want to be a floor nurse anymore, just like many other nurses, and COVID travel money is temporary. I have a younger cousin making bank right now in nursing, but in a few years she will be back to the median and I will consistently be making over 200k rather than the other way around. Plus COVID is destroying staffing for nurses. I am sure in all the non union hospitals they are getting the shaft. I don't think you make career decisions based on a transient phenomena, even one as big as COVID. Making 200k for a couple years is not 'f u' money IMO so not worth it. As for NP, I wanted to be an expert, not a midlevel.

 

[DO2015CA]

Well seeing as I was a nurse in a past life, and I did travel nursing, if I knew COVID was coming and all the crazy cash they are throwing out right now I might have thought about delaying. The thing is tho, I didn't want to be a floor nurse anymore, just like many other nurses, and COVID travel money is temporary. I have a younger cousin making bank right now in nursing, but in a few years she will be back to the median and I will consistently be making over 200k rather than the other way around. Plus COVID is destroying staffing for nurses. I am sure in all the non union hospitals they are getting the shaft. I don't think you make career decisions based on a transient phenomena, even one as big as COVID. Making 200k for a couple years is not 'f u' money IMO so not worth it. As for NP, I wanted to be an expert, not a midlevel.

Do you think nursing returns after covid? I feel like many have said they won’t because of just the way administration has treated them throughout covid. Then these terrible nursing ratios due to lack of nurses is just making it worse for the nurses that haven’t left yet.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Do you think nursing returns after covid? I feel like many have said they won’t because of just the way administration has treated them throughout covid. Then these terrible nursing ratios due to lack of nurses is just making it worse for the nurses that haven’t left yet.

Nursing schools still fill. They gotta work somewhere. Don’t blame them for getting out now and doing something else that barely pays the bills. I would too.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

If i was solely in it for the money… absolutely.
i have a friend who will be making 50k in three months only working 36 hours a week.

You realize that the vast majority of doctors make substantially more than that, right? That was my base salary when I first got out of residency and I'm in one of the lowest paid fields. I also work 36 hours/week and, most importantly, its not in a hospital overrun with COVID.

 

[ciestar]

You realize that the vast majority of doctors make substantially more than that, right? That was my base salary when I first got out of residency and I'm in one of the lowest paid fields. I also work 36 hours/week and, most importantly, its not in a hospital overrun with COVID.

Im in FM, so i get it. I will probably make roughly that much. You make an excellent point though. As a resident, i work twice that many hours so that thought didnt cross my mind. However, I also would have gotten years of my life back and not have 350k in debt from my educational pursuits.

 

[ciestar]

Do you think nursing returns after covid? I feel like many have said they won’t because of just the way administration has treated them throughout covid. Then these terrible nursing ratios due to lack of nurses is just making it worse for the nurses that haven’t left yet.

Some of our nurses have quit due to vaccine mandates. We’re at capacity with empty beds due to nursing shortages.

With new graduates and schools mandating vaccines, hopefully those positions fill.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Im in FM, so i get it. I will probably make roughly that much. You make an excellent point though. As a resident, i work twice that many hours so that thought didnt cross my mind. However, I also would have gotten years of my life back and not have 350k in debt from my educational pursuits.

Sure, but these rates won't last forever. Prior to COVID travel nurses did well but not nearly this well.

 

[hallowmann]

115 an hour for a nurse. Nuts

Ads saying $6k a week as a travel RN. It's crazy.

Sure, but these rates won't last forever. Prior to COVID travel nurses did well but not nearly this well.

I'm not so sure. There are a lot of forces pushing a deeper shortage of RNs, including funneling to NP programs, which continue to expand. Even before the pandemic some travel RNs were making $75+/hr. All this while some Urgent Cares are offering FM boarded physicians just $100/hr.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade it, but I definitely don't fault anyone for thinking about it.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Do you think nursing returns after covid? I feel like many have said they won’t because of just the way administration has treated them throughout covid. Then these terrible nursing ratios due to lack of nurses is just making it worse for the nurses that haven’t left yet.

Ratios have always been bad in some hospitals, and they will continue to be. I am not about unionizing everything, but in nursing case, it makes sense with many hospitals. People will come back they still need a job. But a certain amount won’t.

Before the 2008 financial crisis, 25% of nurses quit the profession within a year and never returned. The average length of a ‘floor/patient facing’ nurse career back then was 5 years. I can’t imagine those numbers have improved. There are so many ways to get out with nursing, they don’t all get you employed easily but there are a lot of options. there is always a shortage of experienced nurses willing to work the floor. The MBAs have guaranteed it with crap working conditions and pushing easy graduate degrees like NP.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Sure, but these rates won't last forever. Prior to COVID travel nurses did well but not nearly this well.

Agreed was closer to $50 an hour in the south. Maybe in Cali you get $75 but not 10k a week that I see my inbox now (likely a teaser rate, 6k is more like what I hear). I have an email advertising a 25k sign on bonus at a Kansas hospital for a permanent position. I bet it’s only for 2 years of service. These things were not happening when I was a nurse.

 

[Ganon]

MS4 and Covid RN and the thought of taking a “research year” before match is tempting. Easy to pull 20-35k a month without heavy lifting right now, and almost limitless if you are willing to kill yourself (6 days a week constantly).

but… I feel like my mental health can’t handle an additional year of training. Sure, a couple hundred grand would be nice, but so would finishing residency a year earlier and making the same money.

I’m seeing offers in the 150-200/range pretty routinely, and at my own job they are doing $600/day in addition to the (double what I made as a full time bedside rn) pay.
It’s pretty disgusting to be making surgeon money for nursing work, but… oh well!
The desperation will subside within a year though.

 

[DO2015CA]

MS4 and Covid RN and the thought of taking a “research year” before match is tempting. Easy to pull 20-35k a month without heavy lifting right now, and almost limitless if you are willing to kill yourself (6 days a week constantly).

but… I feel like my mental health can’t handle an additional year of training. Sure, a couple hundred grand would be nice, but so would finishing residency a year earlier and making the same money.

I’m seeing offers in the 150-200/range pretty routinely, and at my own job they are doing $600/day in addition to the (double what I made as a full time bedside rn) pay.
It’s pretty disgusting to be making surgeon money for nursing work, but… oh well!
The desperation will subside within a year though.

You should and pay down your loans. Whatever mental health anguish you’ll have prolonging training will be offset by paying loans off. And for interviews, about why you took time off, I would be mighty impressed if you said you did it to “help with the covid effort” especially since nursing shortage is a huge factor right now in your healthcare crunch.

 

[hallowmann]

You should and pay down your loans. Whatever mental health anguish you’ll have prolonging training will be offset by paying loans off. And for interviews, about why you took time off, I would be mighty impressed if you said you did it to “help with the covid effort” especially since nursing shortage is a huge factor right now in your healthcare crunch.

This would honestly be huge for a lot of people. Paying off loans that won't gain 7% every year during residency and be much higher than the principal by the end of training means having a lot of versatility to work whenever and however you want. Plus it means getting that retirement money started earlier.

I don't advocate for people burning themselves out before residency, but damn, I'd be thinking about it myself.

 

[atnightingale]

MS4 and Covid RN and the thought of taking a “research year” before match is tempting. Easy to pull 20-35k a month without heavy lifting right now, and almost limitless if you are willing to kill yourself (6 days a week constantly).

but… I feel like my mental health can’t handle an additional year of training. Sure, a couple hundred grand would be nice, but so would finishing residency a year earlier and making the same money.

I’m seeing offers in the 150-200/range pretty routinely, and at my own job they are doing $600/day in addition to the (double what I made as a full time bedside rn) pay.
It’s pretty disgusting to be making surgeon money for nursing work, but… oh well!
The desperation will subside within a year though.

I might consider it in your situation Maybe, but I am an MS1 and between that and the nature of my nursing career this isn't an option for me. I left the hospital 14 years ago and have been working in community settings since, which made me a lot happier and saner as a nurse, but ended up not being enough for me.

 

[LimpSpatula]

This is great for our profession in the long term. Nurses really exposed themselves through this pandemic.

 

[Captain_Falcon]

This is great for our profession in the long term. Nurses really exposed themselves through this pandemic.

How so? I don't think anything nurses do would distort the perfect image the public has bestowed upon them as a profession

 

[LimpSpatula]

How so? I don't think anything nurses do would distort the perfect image the public has bestowed upon them as a profession

Leaving employment because of vaccine mandates has already tarnished their image. More importantly, the rift between them and healthcare employers has widened.

 

[DO2015CA]

Leaving employment because of vaccine mandates has already tarnished their image. More importantly, the rift between them and healthcare employers has widened.

I’m not so sold. For the millions that think this is a hoax and the vaccine was rushed, these nurses are “exposing the truth”. If they won’t take it then of course there is something wrong with it.

 

[Captain_Falcon]

Leaving employment because of vaccine mandates has already tarnished their image. More importantly, the rift between them and healthcare employers has widened.

I agree with this post below and was my reasoning when I asked you to expand:

I’m not so sold. For the millions that think this is a hoax and the vaccine was rushed, these nurses are “exposing the truth”. If they won’t take it then of course there is something wrong with it.

Nurses for whatever reason(s) have gained the image of hard-working noble individuals that don't get compensated enough. This rift I feel will be seen, even by progressives on the left and centrists, as an unfortunate obstacle(s) getting in their way of noble work

 

[LimpSpatula]

I agree with this post below and was my reasoning when I asked you to expand:




Nurses for whatever reason(s) have gained the image of hard-working noble individuals that don't get compensated enough. This rift I feel will be seen, even by progressives on the left and centrists, as an unfortunate obstacle(s) getting in their way of noble work

That’s an interesting take, but the fact is the majority of Americans approve mandates, and an even bigger majority approve of vaccines. Moreover, this is a small minority of nurses who the supermajority disagree with. I’m not sure how that bodes well for nursing image.

 

[Captain_Falcon]

That’s an interesting take, but the fact is the majority of Americans approve mandates, and an even bigger majority approve of vaccines. Moreover, this is a small minority of nurses who the supermajority disagree with. I’m not sure how that bodes well for nursing image.

I think because it is such a small minority that the overall image won't change

 

[LimpSpatula]

I think because it is such a small minority that the overall image won't change

It’s what’s getting press though. Another thing to realize is that the people who are antivax have no power. These are people who are literally too stupid to process information. People who have influence aren’t antivax. If nurses have the support of stupid, powerless, apelike creatures, then what does that really do for them?

You know who has power? Big money behind hospital systems that is seeing nurses flipping them off. That doesn’t bode well for a profession that is absolutely reliant on that money.

 

[FutureInternist]

While we may be on a 12 hour shift (as a hospitalist) there is usually a significant amount of time where there is nothing going on.
Pts seen, orders written, DCs done, DC for next day set up with HHC, O2 orders, bedside delivery of meds etc.
For me, thats usually around hour # 5 of my day and the remainder 7 hours are just hanging out, doing more admits for extra $, going home early, napping and so by the time my shift “finishes” I am fresh for hanging out with the kid.

Nursing, PT, Case Management, RT etc don’t have the option of leaving early, and each hour has something to do, and for me despite a 3 day work week, there is NO comparison.

 

[Captain_Falcon]

It’s what’s getting press though. Another thing to realize is that the people who are antivax have no power. These are people who are literally too stupid to process information. People who have influence aren’t antivax. If nurses have the support of stupid, powerless, apelike creatures, then what does that really do for them?

You know who has power? Big money behind hospital systems that is seeing nurses flipping them off. That doesn’t bode well for a profession that is absolutely reliant on that money.

All good points but if we all know that these nursed are a very small minority then I dont see how big money hospitals are really affected in a measurable way

 

[ortnakas]

This would honestly be huge for a lot of people. Paying off loans that won't gain 7% every year during residency and be much higher than the principal by the end of training means having a lot of versatility to work whenever and however you want. Plus it means getting that retirement money started earlier.

I don't advocate for people burning themselves out before residency, but damn, I'd be thinking about it myself.

Agree with this. Most reasons people want to take a LOA aren’t worth it, financially or career-wise. But $200/hour adds up quick and you could probably pay off a good chunk of loans before they accumulate a bunch more interest and have some breaks in there, too. And I feel like “wanted to help with the nursing shortage in the pandemic” is a very valid reason for leave on your residency applications.

That said, your mental health is worth more than paying off student loans so I get why it’s a hard decision.

 

[Lawpy]

As the healthcare system collapses and nursing is becoming the rate limiting factor, this totally makes sense. Some hospitals are "full" even though they have physical beds because they dont have anyone to staff them. I know nurses that are saying enough is enough and are walking away completely.

Hospitals should really push for much larger salaries for their local nurses too. There's a lot of incidents where travel nurses don't get along with local nurses and critical cases keep getting pushed to local nurses who are overworked and underpaid

 

[Mass Effect]

If you could go back in time, knowing that the money is good in travel nursing, with the option of being a NP, or CRNA, would you be a nurse?

You know you can be a travel doctor and still get triple what travel nurses make? Being a nurse is an entirely different job description. NPs know very little compared to MD/DO. Doing something for the money will never turn out well.

 

[Mass Effect]

If i was solely in it for the money… absolutely.
i have a friend who will be making 50k in three months only working 36 hours a week.

You can make 50K in a month in some travel doc positions.

 

[Mass Effect]

Ads saying $6k a week as a travel RN. It's crazy.

I'm not so sure. There are a lot of forces pushing a deeper shortage of RNs, including funneling to NP programs, which continue to expand. Even before the pandemic some travel RNs were making $75+/hr. All this while some Urgent Cares are offering FM boarded physicians just $100/hr.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade it, but I definitely don't fault anyone for thinking about it.

You're not making the right analogy. A travel nurse makes that much because they're a travel nurse. It's the same for a travel doc (aka locums). I can spend two weeks in BF Montana and make $30-40K easy, but my regular job will only pay me $250K a year which comes out to like $125/hr.

 

[hallowmann]

You're not making the right analogy. A travel nurse makes that much because they're a travel nurse. It's the same for a travel doc (aka locums). I can spend two weeks in BF Montana and make $30-40K easy, but my regular job will only pay me $250K a year which comes out to like $125/hr.

I was actually talking about Locums UC jobs. Some pay docs that much even in the midwest where I am.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

You're not making the right analogy. A travel nurse makes that much because they're a travel nurse. It's the same for a travel doc (aka locums). I can spend two weeks in BF Montana and make $30-40K easy, but my regular job will only pay me $250K a year which comes out to like $125/hr.

There's an intensivist on SDN who did some COVID travel work last year for crazy rates. Haven't seen her in awhile but let's see if she's willing to share her experiences:

@chocomorsel

 

[chocomorsel]

There's an intensivist on SDN who did some COVID travel work last year for crazy rates. Haven't seen her in awhile but let's see if she's willing to share her experiences:

@chocomorsel

Nurses are making a killing right now traveling. Physicians, not so much. We are making maybe 25% more or so from our usual rates not the 100% plus that RNs are making. Same with anesthesia jobs right now. They are better for sure, but not like making 100% more like these RNs.
And while traveling even before Covid, I never made any more than some lucky people with permanent PP jobs really. I just liked the flexibility of working when I wanted and being 1099.

 

[Proudfather94]

If you could go back in time, knowing that the money is good in travel nursing, with the option of being a NP, or CRNA, would you be a nurse?

My wife's a nurse. Hearing the crap she experienced as a nurse made me not want to do that job for 3 seconds. As a nurse if you, your aide, or your doctor screw up and the patient gets hurt it goes back on the nurse. Not to mention the overabundance of nursing schools pumping out nurses every year so job security and crappy working conditions will always be a concern.

 

[LimpSpatula]

As a nurse if you, your aide, or your doctor screw up and the patient gets hurt it goes back on the nurse.

 

[Select All That Apply]

RSI, lining, paralyzing, proning, and swimming severe ARF COVID patient cases isn't all that bad considering all the other **** you're forced to deal with in the ICU at any given time. The burden more so falls on RT, medics, and physicians who have to deal with intubating the patients with borderline sats who are refusing it until they absolutely need it and are asking if they can get Ivermectin in the hospital. As a nurse it's scarier handling a severe seizure patient who goes postictal with little to no airway protection, acute GBS/AIDP, or some other form of neurological insult that results in a patient requiring immediate intubation that is concern as the patients can rapidly decline if intubation is not performed and becomes difficult to evaluate how those patients are progressing neurologically when they are sedated as their GCS is automatically a 10 and all you're really doing is testing for spontonaeity, withdrawal, Babinski, etc. with maybe CT/MRI/EEG for follow up. Idk. I would almost always choose to take a full load of COVID patients on high flow that will likely require intubation over a lot of other borderline cases that come our way in the hospital.

 

[Proudfather94]

View attachment 344547

I don't know how that statement was funny when it's true. If a physician orders something that will kill a patient and a nurse gives it their license gets yanked.

 

[Select All That Apply]

I don't know how that statement was funny when it's true. If a physician orders something that will kill a patient and a nurse gives it their license gets yanked.

Committing euthanasia without the patient's consent is pretty bad. Committing euthanasia in and of itself is also bad, albeit a hair less bad than the aforementioned.

 

[Proudfather94]

Committing euthanasia without the patient's consent is pretty bad. Committing euthanasia in and of itself is also bad, albeit a hair less bad than the aforementioned.

Yeah I was just saying from seeing my wife work that the pressure that your aide is doing what they are supposed to do and having to make sure that the doctor doesn't make a mistake and you don't catch it isn't worth it to me.

 

[Select All That Apply]

Yeah I was just saying from seeing my wife work that the pressure that your aide is doing what they are supposed to do and having to make sure that the doctor doesn't make a mistake and you don't catch it isn't worth it to me.

Your wife be trippin bro.

 

[Proudfather94]

Your wife be trippin bro.

She never said that it's what I gained from her experience as a nurse. If your aide says they turned your patient and they didn't or they say they drew a lab and never did and something happens to the patient that will fall back on the nurse. Look up Dr. Husel from Ohio, all those nurses lost their license. Some had to have known what they were doing, some didn't, didn't matter. The ones that gave the medication that he ordered lost their license.

It seems like if someone says anything that can be remotely interpreted as a positive thing about nurses the pitch forks and torches come out.

 

[LimpSpatula]

She never said that it's what I gained from her experience as a nurse. If your aide says they turned your patient and they didn't or they say they drew a lab and never did and something happens to the patient that will fall back on the nurse. Look up Dr. Husel from Ohio, all those nurses lost their license. Some had to have known what they were doing, some didn't, didn't matter. The ones that gave the medication that he ordered lost their license.

It seems like if someone says anything that can be remotely interpreted as a positive thing about nurses the pitch forks and torches come out.

I’m glad you have this attitude. Gotta keep the misses happy! Hope you don’t lose any of it during the process.

 

[Proudfather94]

I’m glad you have this attitude. Gotta keep the misses happy! Hope you don’t lose any of it during the process.

Thanks truth be told I don't hold nurses in general any higher in regards to any other profession. I've saw alot of them during my experience as a CNA and they're just regular people overall. I don't get the halo effect that society has for them. Have I had nurses that have gone above and beyond for their patients by making sure they have everything they need and help out yeah. Have I had nurses that want to pass their meds, chart their assessments, and then talk to each other in the charge office for a collective 9 hours of their 12 hour shift and leave you stranded yes.

At the end of the day it comes down to the individual nurse and their beliefs. Most of the ones on my floor drink the NP kool-aid and I have to bite my tongue so I don't get fired before I start medical school though.

Too add to the thread because I derailed it another reason I wouldn't do travel nursing is because you get more flexibility as a doctor. They are making this money right now, in specific locations, at a very special time. This is very temporary and will go away eventually. I can be a physician and reasonably expect to make similar money anywhere in most places in the US. They're stuck in Texas, and likely had to leave their families behind.

 

[Select All That Apply]

She never said that it's what I gained from her experience as a nurse. If your aide says they turned your patient and they didn't or they say they drew a lab and never did and something happens to the patient that will fall back on the nurse. Look up Dr. Husel from Ohio, all those nurses lost their license. Some had to have known what they were doing, some didn't, didn't matter. The ones that gave the medication that he ordered lost their license.

It seems like if someone says anything that can be remotely interpreted as a positive thing about nurses the pitch forks and torches come out.

If you're bolus administering 1,000 - 2,000 mcg of Fentanyl without questioning the order, you deserve to lose your license. If an ICU nurse doesn't understand how egregious that is, then they shouldn't be practicing. With that amount of dosing, you should be considering giving a paralytic if the goal is sedation and not euthanasia. How are CNAs remotely to blame for this? The physician is clearly off his rocker, but common sense should dictate that the nurse realizes that there is some messed up **** going down and it's their job not to kill the patient. Tolerating a system in which healthcare results in assisted killings is fundamentally morally disgusting. These nurses clearly devalued the lives of the people they were taking care of by not calling out the physician for **** like this. It's really, really disgusting.

**** show cases like this are the reason why patients overbreathing the vent with respiratory alkalosis on their ABG get undersedated when new nurses take over care and don't want to PRN bolus dose 25 mcg or never change the continuous dosing even though sedation is obviously inadequate if overbreathing is so bad their blood pH is two standard deviations above the norm. Not everyone should be in the ICU, especially nurses that assume their patients at going to stable from the get go so they can look at Tik Tok videos before they start their med pass.

 

[Proudfather94]

If you're bolus administering 1,000 - 2,000 mcg of Fentanyl without questioning the order, you deserve to lose your license. If an ICU nurse doesn't understand how egregious that is, then they shouldn't be practicing. With that amount of dosing, you should be considering giving a paralytic if the goal is sedation and not euthanasia. How are CNAs remotely to blame for this? The physician is clearly off his rocker, but common sense should dictate that the nurse realizes that there is some messed up **** going down and it's their job not to kill the patient. Tolerating a system in which healthcare results in assisted killings is fundamentally morally disgusting. These nurses clearly devalued the lives of the people they were taking care of by not calling out the physician for **** like this. It's really, really disgusting.

**** show cases like this are the reason why patients overbreathing the vent with respiratory alkalosis on their ABG get undersedated when new nurses take over care and don't want to PRN bolus dose 25 mcg or never change the continuous dosing even though sedation is obviously inadequate if overbreathing is so bad their blood pH is two standard deviations above the norm. Not everyone should be in the ICU, especially nurses that assume their patients at going to stable from the get go so they can look at Tik Tok videos before they start their med pass.

I agree with that you're saying, my point is that I wouldn't be a nurse because I wouldn't want to be in a spot where I need to make sure both the people working above and below me are not doing something that will screw up my patient. I also know I have the capability to be a physician and I want to have the biggest impact I can to help my patients. Those are both major reasons why I'm saying I would rather be a doctor than a nurse.