Updated Interview List

[jpgreer13]

My totals aren't quite final yet, but I applied at 35 programs total, generally all on or east of the Mississippi, and mostly in medium-sized or smaller cities. I got 24 interview offers, I'm thinking.

Waitlisted at Virginia and Indiana and Maine.
Dropped cold at UNC and Duke and Emory.

Still waiting on Carolinas, UConn, Christiana, Wisconsin, and Medical College of Georgia, although right now, Carolinas is the only one of those five I'd accept.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[DrQuinn]

No news today. I wouldn't mind any communication from any residency, even a rejection. I just want to be able to use my new synonyms for the big "R" word.

 

[mikecwru]

Not heard: MCV, U of Va, Christ, U of Mass, NWestern---none look good this late and I am 99.99% sure I'm about to get the axe from U of VA... they filled up their interview slots.

The big stiff arm: Arizona, Maricopa, Hennepin, Indiana, Emory, Denver

Invited: Akron Gen, Baton Rouge, Baystate, UT SW, Jacksonville, Maryland, Metro/CCF, Orlando, OSU, Toledo, U of MI, Vanderbilt, WVA, Wright St, Christiana, Summa/Akron
... of which I've interviewed at already:
Akron Gen, Ohio State, CWRU, Wright St, Vandy. Going to Maryland, U of MI, WVA and St Vinnie's in December.

I'm a special case, though. I found out that an important LOR was lukewarm (I had no idea) so that's why I got axed at a lot of the big names... otherwise, my app would have been really strong. My other LORs are strong, good step 1, better than average clinical grades, published in EM, etc, etc.

 

[sgufmg]

Where did you interview at? I've only got like 6 interviews too, none from my school's affiliated hospitals in NYC either! Figures?

Did you interview for another specialty??

 

[DocWagner]

What you will find out (or already have found out)...there may be little rhyme or reason for whom residencies choose to interview.
A lesser known residency will decline you, while a big name will invite you. That is exactly what happened to me last year.

What you are likely to find is that many programs differ only slightly...and the major difference may be geography. Even starting pay is similar across the board.
Best of luck to those who are interviewing right now.

 

[DrQuinn]

DocW-
you are exactly right. I know people with similar board scores/grades/(I'm sure clinical grades) as mine, and they are being offered interviews where I am not, and vice versa. Very very odd.

Anyways, I hope everyone here has a great T-giving...

 

[mikecwru]

I know that there is some arbitrary element to the interviewing process, but still, there is a definite trend for me... I'm getting axed at the majority of major places. I have decent board scores (245), half HP/half honors in clinicals, an honors in my EM rotation, and I'm published in EM. None of my LOR are from national people, but I confirmed that a SLOR I have basically had all of the middle boxes checked. This was an SLOR that was sent to ALL institutions. So, for me, my LORs have been causing me a lot of problems. I can live with the programs I got rejected by, but I just don't want to be bottom of the heap for the programs I *did* interview at. Hopefully, despite this major flaw, I'm still an ok candidate at some institutions, because I got about 14-15 interviews BEFORE the dean's letter went out. Anyone from last year or beyond have a unknown crappy LOR? I hope this doesn't kill me. I can't understand how I got honors in a rotation, good verbal comments, and a ****ty LOR.... everyone DOES NOT get honors in this particular rotation.

mike

 

[Hornet871]

Mike, I feel your pain, man. There is definitely not the same - or even similar - selection criteria at the various EM programs.

You got manhandled by Emory and Hennepin, while being invited by some top places like Orlando, Christiana, Baystate, UTSW, and Maryland.

I, on the other hand, was sliced and diced by all of those programs, as well as by Jacksonville, Summa/Akron, and Wright State.

But somehow, Emory and Hennepin want me?

Wait a minute, lemme get this straight: Summa/Akron and Wright State, in Sticksville, USA want no part of me, but famously cool Emory and Hennepin are breaking down my door?

(And why did Jacksonville, Orlando, and UTSW also rain on my parade? That really hurt my feelings.)


hornet


synonym add-ons in this post: manhandled, sliced and diced, rained on my parade.

others:
dropkicked (my all-time favorite)
beaten down
abused
"made me call cps" (child-protection services)
vaporized ("Jacksonville vaporized me 5 days p getting my app")
atomized
excoriated
disemboweled
hung me out to dry
threw me in a bag and beat me with a lead pipe
suckerpunched
kicked me in the groin
gave me a texas t*tty twister
grabbed me by the short and curlies and wouldn't let go
bent me over and made a woman out of me
f*cked me and the horse i rode in on
f*cked me running
(there are limitless variations on "f*ck")
"sewed my labia together" (i swear, a female friend of mine said this; it's rather the opposite of getting f*cked, no?)
sent me to nebraska
told me to go f*ck myself
packed a cabbage in my knapsack and told me to push off
called my mom and told her i sucked
smacked my ass and told me i liked it
told me to watch ricki lake and scratch my b*lls

others?

 

[DrQuinn]

Hornet -
Come on brother how am I supposed to beat those?!?!?!?! Now I just have to hope I don't get cold-cocked by another residency... come on 20 more interview offers!!!!!!!!!

 

[mikecwru]

Originally posted by Hornet871
Mike, I feel your pain, man. There is definitely not the same - or even similar - selection criteria at the various EM programs.

synonym add-ons in this post: manhandled, sliced and diced, rained on my parade.
others?

Well, like I said, I'm way over the places I got rejected at, because most of the places (with the exception of AZ) I would not have been too found of the cities themselves.

I just hope that because of this, at the places I DID interview at, I'm not #102 on their rank list.

Also, don't knock Wright St.... I actually enjoyed the place a lot. I was really impressed by their "big ED," at Miami Valley and the people were really nice. From the rumors I've heard, a lot of people would enjoy Wright St a lot more than what I've heard about Emory.

PS: You forgot "axe" and "the big stiff arm," my personal favorites.

mike

 

[Hornet871]

.

PS: You forgot "axe" and "the big stiff arm," my personal favorites.

Not quite. I was adding to the list, not rehashing the best ones.

I do love "the big stiff arm", by the way, but it's a little misleading at first. I liken getting wait-listed to being stiff-armed, since it's not a finalizing maneuver, but merely something that temporarily staves off the inevitable.

Wright State? Sure, it's probably a good program, and perhaps it's "famously benign", and therefore competitive, like Baystate and Oregon Health Sciences, but it seems more than a little illogical that they would turn me down while Hennepin and Emory would not.

Wright State? Wright State? Sorry, man, but just uttering those words drains one of credibility. Say it aloud and see for yourself.


hornet OUT

P.S. How about a list of "famously benign" programs? My prediction is that NO ONE will share such a list, since everyone wants to keep these programs to himself. Makes sense, I suppose, since everyone you tell will potentially take that position away from you.

How about one of you already-established docs (like EMIMG) letting us know what these programs are? I know that EMIMG is fond of doing procedures and working hard, but some of us are going into EM for precisely the opposite reasons: we want to work as little as possible, starting at residency and continuing through the rest of our careers. Don't work a day past 45, I say, and retire to the Caribbean.

Just my two cents. Now bring the backlash noise.

 

[EMIMG]

Hey, don't get me wrong....I want to retire at an early age as well....probably not to the Caribbean since I went to medical school down there.

The great thing about my residency is that I really feel I will be comfortable wherever I go, whatever setting it is I choose in which to practice. Most people that have graduated from my residency state that they are bored with where they are because there are very few places that will have the acuity that we are seeing with the lack of ancillary support with which we function. However, with that being said, our graduates go to academic settinigs, and they go to community settings; however, the feel very prepared with everything they will see. I guess my philosophy is I would rather get beat down for three years, and feel comfortable doing anything that would present to an ED that I will work at rather than skating by for three years and having something that I may feel uncomfortable dealing with.

One of our attendings who trained at our program stated that he has done everything you can imagine Emergency Physicians can do with the exception of a perimortem C-section and there was one that he missed out on a couple years ago.

You need to determine what type of environment you want both for residency and for the future. I will tell you that if you bust your butt off in residency and go to a program which is very intense, you will have no problems adjusting to various practices throughout the country. However, if you go to a "country-club", you may have difficulty stepping into some of the programs out there. We have had attendings that have trained at one of the "big University Medical programs" out near us and then came on as an attending but just could not deal with some of the things we had to deal with. It is just different strokes for different folks.

Best of luck.

 

[Apollyon]

Hi...some of you may recall me from EMRA...I won't tell you the embarrassing amount of programs I applied to this year, to ensure I get SOMETHING...but, tried and true, every day, more rejectile vomit (<--- co-opted from some General Surgery folks - not mine, unfortunately) from these programs...the record is 7 in one day.

Even so, have 3 interviews, and they're not bad places (St. John's - Detroit, Mt. Sinai - NY, SUNY - Buffalo), so go figure.

Being an FMG with average boards just doesn't cut it with a lot of programs - the irony being, all USMLE scores are equal. To hold FMG's to a higher number is just idiotic...I mean, is this "Animal Farm"? Are some more equal than others?? Not to mention that "schoolism" is illegal...

A few things I've seen this year (being my second year applying) - I haven't seen a program change it's rejection letter this year (a few even have the same abysmal grammar and spelling errors - pretty unprofessional, but, then again...), but Ohio State and Henry Ford come to mind for being classy...paper rejections for online apps. The Charity rejection is very solicitous, as was Davis. One program in Pennsylvania maintains their self-serving attitude, indicating that "if initial criteria aren't met, the applicant" is inconvenienced by the interview....meaning, the interview doesn't change anything....so.........why bother to interview? I wrote back this same thing last year, and quoted the two studies, where PD's indicated what was important, and the interview trumps them all (ie, as long as you get there, it's a whole new season). They didn't respond to me. Go figure. The irony is that, with 10 years of EM, having done student health, was president of EMC, World University Games, blah blah blah, I don't make the cut, but a friend who has a lower Step I than me, and is acclaimed to be the worst student in their class, gets an interview there.

OK, so much for my whining...a few truisms abound...one is that, if you try to figure out why one person gets interviewed and the other doesn't, you'll flip, because there is no rhyme or reason. One framework is 1. their own students 2. people who rotated there 3. anyone else left over, with high boards on down, with a cut to the front of the line for anyone who is "underrepresented" in EM (ie, women and minorities)...doubt that? Check the FREIDA workforce statistics.

Another is about post-Thanksgiving interviews...since most programs are rather equal, they look for a lot of the same, which is why the same core of 200-300 people get selected - when these people realize that they don't want to interview at 30 places, they start to cancel.

Regardless, I'll get something somewhere...I comfort myself with the knowledge that I'm a good doc already, and no patient in any ER gives a damn where you were a resident - every patient assumes the doctor is Harvard or Yale or Oxford or Cambridge or Sorbonne, if s/he is doing good by the patient.

OK, I'm all better now!

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I'm just curious, and I truly mean no disrespect, because I believe what you are saying about what's important in an applicant (i.e. not medical school attended)....but didn't you FMGs know this was coming when you enrolled at an institution outside the US? When I considered applying to non-US schools I was warned by many that it would be very difficult to get a residency position back in the US. Also, who is getting rejected by general surgery programs? I've got a lot of friends who only applied to 5 places, and have 5 interviews-all of which are begging them to come.

 

[Apollyon]

The first time I applied to med school, there were 11 applicants for every 4 spots. My premedical guidance (in retrospect) was a joke - I DIDN'T know there would be this much discrimination. At the same time, I knew that, if you were good enough, it didn't matter where you were from - and "us FMG's" come from the heavy people states like California and New York - out of everyone who applies for medical school in the US, about 30% are from those two states alone.

Also, who is the new director of NIH? An FMG from Algeria...so the government isn't discriminating against who's the best.

And what other option did I have? Not become a doctor? The patients I see deserve a doc as good as me. D.O.? I don't believe in the philosophy, and I've met more than one person who did D.O. for the idea, versus the allopathic lockstep that the only reason people go osteopath is 'cause they can't get into an M.D. program.

If you put me in a room with 9 other MD's from US schools, and had to match schools with people, I can guarantee that you couldn't do it.

And, believe me - I've seen 6 straight years of EM residents at one program, and seen residents in action from 6 different programs, and being a US grad does not give a monopoly on being a good EP. There are some studs, yet, also, I've seen several that are an embarrassment to EM, and I had to ask myself how they got into a program.

That's the difference between medical residency and the rest of the world - using standards that don't translate: whereas in business you're evaluated by how much money you can bring in, and how well you do your job, to get a medical residency, your pedigree and very nonspecific indicators (grades, board scores (which, incidentally, is an overt misuse of USMLE scores, as per the NBME)) are used, with recommendations (experts in the field, who have seen you in action) only being supplementary.

Ever hear the phrase, "Sometimes the best man for the job is a woman"? The corollary is "Sometimes the best doctor for an American patient is a foreign doc". All I'm saying is that people should be seen as individuals, instead of being docked right at the front for having done two years of preclinical in the Caribbean. It's not like I've been away for all my adult life - and my work as paramedic/firefighter, and 3 student electives, and 2 months in two ED's (all in the US, in New York and New Jersey) as an intern, show my dedication and commitment to EM moreso than someone who hasn't even done their single EM elective by September 1, when they're putting in their app for EM.

Do you really think the net of application committees is truly specific and sensitive at US med schools? If so, I have a prime piece of land for you.

As far as the surgery rejections, they came from this network - one of the more recent threads, which I got to with one click.

I guess one big problem with my argument is that I am mixing two points - being FMG and having bad USMLEs. I have two friends doing anesthesia next year - one at Yale, and the other at Tufts (after being the first FMG I ever knew to interview at Mass. General); there was the high scorer in the US on Step I and Step II, who got her EM #1 choice, and another that applied to 100 programs, and got 50 interview offers.

Now I am talked out...for anyone stomaching this whole thing, the bottom line is that any EM program can take any average person, and make a qualified (if not brilliant, or creative) EP out of them, like an edible loaf of bread from any flour.

 

[DocWagner]

I guess I didn't understand your D.O. comment...but I am sorry for your frustration.
Have you considered doing an internship or prelim surgery year first, THEN reapplying? It is what many, many people do.

Best of luck. Trust me, there is no conspiracy against you...sometimes back luck happens to good people.

 

[Apollyon]

10 years ago, when I first started applying to med school, a bunch of people told me that the only reason people do D.O. is because they can't get into M.D., which I now know is false. I don't believe in the philosophy, and I didn't want to possibly take a position from someone who did.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Got the rejection from Madigan today. They said all interview spots are filled. My finals....30 applications, 28 invites, 2 rejections, I'll go to 20. Not sure what Madigan and UNC wanted....but they didn't want me.

 

[edinOH]

30 apps, 28 invites, and 20 interviews? Sounds to me like you are a pretty strong candidate. Maybe you should pick your top 10-12 and leave the scraps for others! There are alot of people out there who would love to have any one of those "extra" spots that you are taking.

 

[Hornet871]

I got a lot of rejections, but I did get an invite from Madigan. I've decided not to go, however, because of its "military affiliations".

Just what is Madigan, anyway? Do the civilians get a different training from the military people? How will it affect my marketability post-residency coming from a "military program"?

If you know anything else about Madigan, please share.


Thanks.

 

[blackcat]

madigan is a combined residency with the university of washington.
they accept 4 civilians per year.
they receive outstanding training and have each class scored among the top 3 in the inservice last year.
i know a lot of physicians from there, and they are all outstanding.
i don't think it should affect your marketability.

 

[CON]

Anyone hear why Beth Israel in NYC is on provisional accredidation status? Any thoughts on the program/hospital? Deciding if I want to interview there...

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Valid criticism EdinOh...I wanted to interview at at least 15 places....the main reason I'm not tossing 5 more is that the ones I would toss are places I will drive through on my way between interviews at places I'm really interested in. The way all these programs offer invites over the course of a two month period, you never know how many you will end up with in the end, but you line them up as you go, or risk being put on the waiting list. Then at the end, you're stuck with either trying to rearrange them all, or just going ahead with the original schedule and going to too many interviews.. You're right though, I can't complain, its a wonderful problem to have. Another reason I'm going to so many is that many of the ones I'm going to are very competitive, I wouldn't be surprised at all to go to my 7th or 8th choice with the caliber of programs and the caliber of the applicant pool. If you are a middle of the road candidate, applying to middle of the road residencies, I think you can get away with 10. But if you're only interviewing at competitive places, I think going to less than 15 is risking not matching, something I'm not willing to do. As far as others "picking up the scraps", the 5 programs I would toss aren't the ones I hear people talking about wanting to hear from on the forum. I've got a couple of good friends I'd give interviews to if I could, but it just doesn't work that way. Besides, do you really think they will rank you high enough to match there if they don't rank you high enough to be on the regular interview list? Maybe on occasion, but I would argue that very few people end up matching at a place where they were invited after someone else cancelled an interview.

 

[Apollyon]

Originally posted by Desperado
Besides, do you really think they will rank you high enough to match there if they don't rank you high enough to be on the regular interview list? Maybe on occasion, but I would argue that very few people end up matching at a place where they were invited after someone else cancelled an interview.

Your argument has merit, up to this point. An extension would be, why bother to interview at all? There should be no waitlist, because very few people that interview off the waitlist get matched. When someone cancels, just leave the spot unfilled. However, this goes in the face of the idea that, if you get an interview, that is the most important factor deciding whether they want you or not - which is what has universally been said by PDs and Chairpeople; who's right? Also, that is the purpose of the match - unless they don't rank people at all, programs might very well end up with these same.

 

[edinOH]

Desperado, Yeah I wish I had more interviews but I feel like I have enough right now to match. I would like 1 or 2 more for breathing room if you know what I mean. They are your interviews so I guess it is your business what you do with them. You should match well with those numbers. I understand what you mean about the more competitive programs.

From what I have gathered early on the interview trail is that more people are accepting more interviews than in years past. If this is the case then it seems to me that the programs better make their ROLs long enough or there will be more unfilled spots and more unmatched applicants.

I agree with Apollyon though. Everything I have read and been told leads me to believe that once you get to the interview you generally have as much of a shot as the next guy in matching at that particular program. This of course doesn't take into consideration the few applicants that did rotations at the place or went to school there and thus are known by the program. Once those people are placed in their respective spots on the program's ROL I think each remaining applicant is judged equally.

 

[mikecwru]

Originally posted by edinOH
Desperado, Yeah I wish I had more interviews but I feel like I have enough right now to match. I would like 1 or 2 more for breathing room if you know what I mean. They are your interviews so I guess it is your business what you do with them. You should match well with those numbers. I understand what you mean about the more competitive programs.

From what I have gathered early on the interview trail is that more people are accepting more interviews than in years past. If this is the case then it seems to me that the programs better make their ROLs long enough or there will be more unfilled spots and more unmatched applicants.

I agree with Apollyon though. Everything I have read and been told leads me to believe that once you get to the interview you generally have as much of a shot as the next guy in matching at that particular program. This of course doesn't take into consideration the few applicants that did rotations at the place or went to school there and thus are known by the program. Once those people are placed in their respective spots on the program's ROL I think each remaining applicant is judged equally.

Hey EDinOH, check your PM box or PM me your e-mail address.

mike