#WaitListedAndProud2016_A Post-April 30th Saga

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The thing is, I know she writes nice letters about me. She once wrote me letters to apply to this job which required the applicant to hand the letter in along with the application, so she gave the letter to me in a sealed envelope. I was just about the turn in my application when I got an offer from another job I interviewed for weeks ago, so I just took that one instead and never turned in my app. I couldn't help myself so I opened the envelope to read the letter, and she wrote really nice things about me. She really is a great lady, which is why I'm even more upset at myself for asking so much from her that forces such a nice person to eventually say "that's enough":(
I get it. It's happened to me and it's very disappointing. You could go back and try to convince her. But even if you succeed, there's a chance her letter will be less "sparkling" than the first. Not like it would be on purpose, it just happens sometimes with letter writers. And at least she was honest with you instead of going ahead and writing a ho-hum letter.

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This reminds me.. I need to come up with some stellar thank-you gifts for my recommenders once this is all over and I'm finally IN. One of them, my old graduate adviser, has been recommending me for PhD programs, jobs, and now med school (x3 including next cycle). He's a real trooper! I had a chance to read his recommendation when I was looking for a job, and it was so good it made me cry.
Any ideas?
 
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Your situation is unique since you don't have a pre med committee but for most schools with pre med committees, all the rec letters go to them, and the pre med committee usually has a file of all your rec letters.

I understand you don't have a premed committee but that doesn't mean your previous letter writers should back out on you. Most letter writers keep their rec letters saved that they have written for you. Clearly this PI did in a way reject you, is there anyone else in the lab who can write a letter for you - maybe a post doc or even a PhD candidate, and then maybe ask if the PI can sign off on it, if she wants to of course. If not, then a post doc or PhD candidate is just fine. I don't think medical schools will take it as a bad sign that you don't have a PI rec letter (it may come up in the interview but you can explain it there) but also I mean most medical schools understand that PIs are also busy and accept rec letters from other members of the lab. For my friend, the PI didn't write his rec letter, his post doc did and he got into medical school just fine. Don't worry too much about it. There are always ways to solve the problem and I agree with what everyone said, you don't want someone to write you a rec letter that doesn't want to.

I get it. It's happened to me and it's very disappointing. You could go back and try to convince her. But even if you succeed, there's a chance her letter will be less "sparkling" than the first. Not like it would be on purpose, it just happens sometimes with letter writers. And at least she was honest with you instead of going ahead and writing a ho-hum letter.

Thanks everyone:oops:. I think I'm just so stressed/emotional from everything that even the tiniest setback makes me into an emotional mess. I'm really really really thankful to have so many great people in this thread supporting me and help me get through everything. you guys are awesome.
 
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On a happier and totally random note, the really cute guy next door is into me, and I'm kind of into him;).
 
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Double glove when you're in love...
Lol! Just because I caught him looking at my bod doesn't mean I'm ready to give it up just yet;).
 
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This reminds me.. I need to come up with some stellar thank-you gifts for my recommenders once this is all over and I'm finally IN. One of them, my old graduate adviser, has been recommending me for PhD programs, jobs, and now med school (x3 including next cycle). He's a real trooper! I had a chance to read his recommendation when I was looking for a job, and it was so good it made me cry.
Any ideas?

do you know what he likes? ex: one of my letter writers loves and I mean loves watson and crick so I know he would love something related to them/DNA. Another one of my letter writers loves wine, so I am thinking wine for him etc!
 
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do you know what he likes? ex: one of my letter writers loves and I mean loves watson and crick so I know he would love something related to them/DNA. Another one of my letter writers loves wine, so I am thinking wine for him etc!
Hmm... he likes a lot of things, but I'm worried that's going to get really difficult and/or really expensive. I was thinking more like a food & wine basket or something....idk
 
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Hmm... he likes a lot of things, but I'm worried that's going to get really difficult and/or really expensive. I was thinking more like a food & wine basket or something....idk
That's fine! Don't go out of your price range. I mean I'm looking on Amazon for Watson and crick stuff and I've found inexpensive things which is great!! It's the thought that counts!!!
 
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It has little or no effect on MD admissions except maybe IS for Louisiana and a couple of MI schools.

@gyngyn is right. I was able to contact two schools who actually responded to why they didn't interview me and although I had a masters degree from an Ivy League with a great GPA and although I took the hardest science classes with med students, it didn't matter. They said they didn't interview me cuz of my undergrad gpa and I told them I had gotten a masters to show them I could handle the work and I explained why my undergrad gpa was just ok. It didn't matter. They said to reapply with a post bac. It's like they basically ignored the fact I have a masters. While I enjoyed my masters experience and learned so much, it may not be worth it. A post Bac may be better. You should contact your schools and ask them why they didn't interview you and see if they suggest you should do a post bac. I'm not saying doing a post bac is def going to get you in cuz I have no idea what these schools want. I'm just saying from my own personal experience what happened to me with a masters.
 
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@gyngyn is right. I was able to contact two schools who actually responded to why they didn't interview me and although I had a masters degree from an Ivy League with a great GPA and although I took the hardest science classes with med students, it didn't matter. They said they didn't interview me cuz of my undergrad gpa and I told them I had gotten a masters to show them I could handle the work and I explained why my undergrad gpa was just ok. It didn't matter. They said to reapply with a post bac. It's like they basically ignored the fact I have a masters. While I enjoyed my masters experience and learned so much, it may not be worth it. A post Bac may be better. You should contact your schools and ask them why they didn't interview you and see if they suggest you should do a post bac. I'm not saying doing a post bac is def going to get you in cuz I have no idea what these schools want. I'm just saying from my own personal experience what happened to me with a masters.
Wow.. this is good to know

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@gyngyn is right. I was able to contact two schools who actually responded to why they didn't interview me and although I had a masters degree from an Ivy League with a great GPA and although I took the hardest science classes with med students, it didn't matter. They said they didn't interview me cuz of my undergrad gpa and I told them I had gotten a masters to show them I could handle the work and I explained why my undergrad gpa was just ok. It didn't matter. They said to reapply with a post bac. It's like they basically ignored the fact I have a masters. While I enjoyed my masters experience and learned so much, it may not be worth it. A post Bac may be better. You should contact your schools and ask them why they didn't interview you and see if they suggest you should do a post bac. I'm not saying doing a post bac is def going to get you in cuz I have no idea what these schools want. I'm just saying from my own personal experience what happened to me with a masters.

I can relate to this. Grad grades were great, undergrad, not so much. No one cared about grad, so rejections ensued.


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Someone at a premed conference I went to in the past asked an adcom about doing a post bacc vs getting a mph or doing a smp and they told us that a post bacc with upper level sciences around 30 or more credits was better...


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Hope everyone has an awesome Wednesday!

What do you guys think of letters of support for applicants on the wait list? If the school accepts them, would they actually be beneficial?
 
Just spent the past 20 minutes scrubbing blood out of my khakis which came from my dress shoes, which I have to wear for my scribe job, cutting my ankles all day. I feel like there's a metaphor here somewhere.

Just a thought, but you may want to consider buying new dress shoes.....

A good pair of shoes is one of the best investments a man can make.
 
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@gyngyn is right. I was able to contact two schools who actually responded to why they didn't interview me and although I had a masters degree from an Ivy League with a great GPA and although I took the hardest science classes with med students, it didn't matter. They said they didn't interview me cuz of my undergrad gpa and I told them I had gotten a masters to show them I could handle the work and I explained why my undergrad gpa was just ok. It didn't matter. They said to reapply with a post bac. It's like they basically ignored the fact I have a masters. While I enjoyed my masters experience and learned so much, it may not be worth it. A post Bac may be better. You should contact your schools and ask them why they didn't interview you and see if they suggest you should do a post bac. I'm not saying doing a post bac is def going to get you in cuz I have no idea what these schools want. I'm just saying from my own personal experience what happened to me with a masters.
That's good to know. My roommate, who has a super low GPA, is doing a Master's in microbiology to try to compensate for it. But I guess that's not a very good option for him...
 
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why would a post bacc be better than a masters unless you werent a science major? i was told to get a masters and i got 5 interviews as a result (although im still not in). i dont think i wouldve gotten any without it applying with just my ugpa.
 
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why would a post bacc be better than a masters unless you werent a science major? i was told to get a masters and i got 5 interviews as a result (although im still not in). i dont think i wouldve gotten any without it applying with just my ugpa.
I think a post bacc is better because they know that the grading is rigorous, whereas sometimes masters GPAs can be inflated. I did my MS in neuroscience, got a 3.8, and still only got one MD interview due to my ugpa. I wish it wasn't this way, because my thought process with the MS was that if medical school worked out, it could lead to a career in research, whereas a post bac or SMP would just leave me with a bunch of loans. Oh well, live and learn right?

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I think a post bacc is better because they know that the grading is rigorous, whereas sometimes masters GPAs can be inflated. I did my MS in neuroscience, got a 3.8, and still only got one MD interview due to my ugpa. I wish it wasn't this way, because my thought process with the MS was that if medical school worked out, it could lead to a career in research, whereas a post bac or SMP would just leave me with a bunch of loans. Oh well, live and learn right?

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ya but they will see all of your grades in your masters not just a cumulative gpa. you take upper level sciences plus do research. still doesnt make sense why they would have you just redo undergrad courses
 
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ya but they will see all of your grades in your masters not just a cumulative gpa. you take upper level sciences plus do research. still doesnt make sense why they would have you just redo undergrad courses
Yeah I totally agree. Its just one of those things that doesn't really make sense but that's just how things are done.

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ya but they will see all of your grades in your masters not just a cumulative gpa. you take upper level sciences plus do research. still doesnt make sense why they would have you just redo undergrad courses
Undergraduate classes have a range of grades. Master's grades are perceived to be very inflated. A low gpa in a Master's can therefore still hurt an application, perhaps worse than a low Ugpa.
 
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Undergraduate classes have a range of grades. Master's grades are perceived to be very inflated. A low gpa in a Master's can therefore still hurt an application, perhaps worse than a low Ugpa.

Would you include SMPs which are graded against medical students in that inflated category? I have a decision to make - excel in an SMP, or take around 10 undergrad courses just to have the prospect of raising sGPA from 3.3 to a mere 3.5 with 10 As.
 
Undergraduate classes have a range of grades. Master's grades are perceived to be very inflated. A low gpa in a Master's can therefore still hurt an application, perhaps worse than a low Ugpa.
i see. i did a SUNY masters and the courses i took overlapped with 400 lv undergrad courses plus i had some extra seminars. perhaps thats why i got SUNY interviews. its also tough to tell how much weight ugpa varies at different schools
 
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i see. i did a SUNY masters and the courses i took overlapped with 400 lv undergrad courses plus i had some extra seminars. perhaps thats why i got SUNY interviews. its also tough to tell how much weight ugpa varies at different schools
I did the same thing and my one interview was SUNY. The difference is my ugpa was probably worse than yours ;)

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I think a post bacc is better because they know that the grading is rigorous, whereas sometimes masters GPAs can be inflated. I did my MS in neuroscience, got a 3.8, and still only got one MD interview due to my ugpa. I wish it wasn't this way, because my thought process with the MS was that if medical school worked out, it could lead to a career in research, whereas a post bac or SMP would just leave me with a bunch of loans. Oh well, live and learn right?

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Hey, if you don't mind, what was your undergrad GPA? This is kind of ridiculous that they don't put enough emphasis on the master's.
 
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Would you include SMPs which are graded against medical students in that inflated category? I have a decision to make - excel in an SMP, or take around 10 undergrad courses just to have the prospect of raising sGPA from 3.3 to a mere 3.5 with 10 As.

10 classes seems very possible to finish in the amount of time it takes to complete an SMP. I say go with the classes to raise your sGPA. SMP's are all or nothing from what I hear in that if you excel then your application is aided but if you struggle to succeed in an SMP it can be the kiss of death.
 
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its also tough to tell how much weight ugpa varies at different schools
AAMC did a survey of all US MD schools. Ugpa and Sgpa were right at the top in admissions priority. Master's grades did not make it into the calculation at all. I'll look for it. Here's one: https://www.aamc.org/download/261106/data/aibvol11_no6.pdf

Look at page 3: https://www.aamc.org/download/434596/data/usingmcatdata2016.pdf

Master's degrees can be enlightening and independently valuable, they just can't be used to evaluate a pool of people for medical school. Most candidates lack the variable to be included in the analysis.
 
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10 classes seems very possible to finish in the amount of time it takes to complete an SMP. I say go with the classes to raise your sGPA. SMP's are all or nothing from what I hear in that if you excel then your application is aided but if you struggle to succeed in an SMP it can be the kiss of death.
But would a 3.3 -> 3.5 sGPA really be better than a >3.8 in an SMP?
 
But would a 3.3 -> 3.5 sGPA really be better than a >3.8 in an SMP?

From what I have heard,seen and experienced...yes! We see it as ok .2 gpa increase big whoop but I think adcoms look at trends as well so recent 30 credit hours of upper level sciences with all A's looks better than an smp. The adcom who told me this was on the admin committee at Cornell med fwiw. But as our awesome @gyngyn has alluded to...adcom like postbaccs better. I was also told to get new letters from professors in the post bacc so they could comment on my recent performance in the sciences.


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Would you include SMPs which are graded against medical students in that inflated category? I have a decision to make - excel in an SMP, or take around 10 undergrad courses just to have the prospect of raising sGPA from 3.3 to a mere 3.5 with 10 As.
SMP's are a special category. They are not Master's degrees in the usual sense. They are designed with the specific purpose of gaining admission to medical school. They are judged by the proportion of successful medical school matriculants they produce and the quality of the schools into which they match.

Though the students are usually taught in the same classes, the standards used to grade them may or may not be the same as the medical students. The course load usually varies as well. Nevertheless, this is a high risk (usually expensive) way to remediate undergrad performance. It can still pay off for the right candidate.
 
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SMP's are a special category. They are not Master's degrees in the usual sense. They are designed with the specific purpose of gaining admission to medical school. They are judged by the proportion of successful medical school matriculants they produce and the quality of the schools into which they match.

Though the students are usually taught in the same classes, the standards used to grade them may or may not be the same as the medical students. The course load usually varies as well. Nevertheless, this is a high risk (usually expensive) way to remediate undergrad performance. It can still pay off for the right candidate.
Would you mind if I PMed you regarding advice on whats the best choice for me?
 
AAMC did a survey of all US MD schools. Ugpa and Sgpa were right at the top in admissions priority. Master's grades did not make it into the calculation at all. I'll look for it. Here's one: https://www.aamc.org/download/261106/data/aibvol11_no6.pdf

Look at page 3: https://www.aamc.org/download/434596/data/usingmcatdata2016.pdf

Master's degrees can be enlightening and independently valuable, they just can't be used to evaluate a pool of people for medical school. Most candidates lack the variable to be included in the analysis.
thanks for linking me this. it seems like i have almost everything checked except high ugpa lol although mine wasnt that bad.
 
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Someone at a premed conference I went to in the past asked an adcom about doing a post bacc vs getting a mph or doing a smp and they told us that a post bacc with upper level sciences around 30 or more credits was better...


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Would you be allowed to say which school told you this?
 
Oh god, the PI I asked for 6 references (yes, 6.) before just semi-rejected me. I mean, she was very nice about it but it was clear that she really didn't want to write another one for me. She wants me to talk to my premed committee to learn to improve my recommendation. How am I supposed to "improve my recommendation"? I'm not even the one writing it! And we don't have a premed committee at our school... She also said that I should look for someone who knows me in more aspects of my life since she only knew me from a research aspect and not academically. But that's why we submit more than one letters right? I mean, how often do people actually do research with the same prof who they took classes with?And she said that she suggest I find someone who knows me in a more "complex perspective". What does that even mean? That you don't know me enough?? I've been in your lab for 3 years!! I get that she wouldn't want to write me one anymore since she wrote me so many already, but I'm just getting really scared that now my other references would back out on me too!!

That sucks :( I'm sorry. I really don't think it would be necessary to write you a new one. Would she be able to just change the date? Would you be able to submit a past recommendation? One older rec + a bunch of new ones shouldn't hurt you
 
Just got my fourth waitlist. When I die, I'd like the UIC admissions committee to lower my coffin into the ground so they can let me down one last time.
 
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Just got my fourth waitlist. When I die, I'd like the UIC admissions committee to lower my coffin into the ground so they can let me down one last time.

4 chances is better than 1....


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What were your stats? Uic is my alma matter so hopefully they show me some love...

Just got my fourth waitlist. When I die, I'd like the UIC admissions committee to lower my coffin into the ground so they can let me down one last time.
 
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