What’s it like living on an attending’s salary

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[BLADEMDA]

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Just get it Blade, you earned it.

 

[Lecithin5]

I spend 25 percent of my net income on all expenses, and invest the rest. But not at the expense of ‘not enjoying life’, because I do… except my tastes and enjoyments don’t cost much. Pay cash for everything- that’s the best part of earning a good living and being disciplined with spending.

 

[anbuitachi]

Middle class income is 65000-120000 depending on your source. Gross income. Youre easily 3x that. You're at least in top 10% territory if not top 5% (350K).

i mean im sure some people disagree but middle class to me isnt just about a number that applies to the entire country. middle class to me refers to a lifestyle, and that type of lifestyle is more expensive in HCOL areas. and middle class is probably the largest bracket. i read in NYC to live upper class lifestyle you need 2m+ annual a year. so im very well in middle class income. top 5% i read is >590k. but in the end i think the lifestyle part is what matters. making 590k with a business while paying 30% tax is not the same as 590k w2 paying 50% tax. but whatever, it gets complicated and i know people like to have general classifications

 

[anbuitachi]

Middle class as compared to some of the proceduralist and C-Suite people. But, at every at a very conservative 300K/yr, that puts us a decent amount (~4-5x) above median household income in the US.

i mean my neighborhoods not my hospital. many people make more than physicians. there are so many businesses here, and the higher levels easily make more, and when you count the # of people here and businesses, its easy to have concentrated area of 'wealth', including international wealth. im sure its similar to many areas in florida, where people just show up and buy multi million homes with all cash.

anesthesiologist salary is probably comparable to a senior mid level employee at a big business. and there are many of those.

 

[anbuitachi]

I love to see it.

The 'harder to get out' comment was merely an observation. We all spent ~12 years at minimum working to be anesthesiologists for the majority -- via very informal poll -- to be itching to do other stuff with their lives.

In other words, anesthesiology -- for anesthesiologists -- appears to be merely an honest, medium octane vehicle to some financial destination. I don't think one could say the same for our surgical, medical colleagues. Do interventional cardiologists, spine surgeons think in the same fashion? I doubt it. Their mentalities just seem altogether different.

honestly there are outliers. neurosurgeons making millions, IC making millions. but the average salary for both of them is somewhere between 600 to 800k range probably. and their training is at least 7 years. they are in mid 30s or later when first starting out, probably with debt. so i honestly dont think its too different for them. someone who starts out of college making 100k starting, and makes 500k by age 35 a year is going to be way ahead IMO. there are plenty of those in banks, tech companies.

though they may feel differently in rural areas where they may be the richest in town. but in HCOL area i think it'll be different mentality

 

[ERRES2288]

Here is my dream car. I can afford it but no car is really worth more than about $120k. Cars are a waste of money so I stay under $100K but I do want this car.

Sweet car! Buy it and many other things…or your kids will

 

[Drwine]

Another thing is when the average person would have difficulty an unexpected $500 expense we can indulge ourself periodically within reason once we are debt free, the bills are paid and we have met our savings goal. I allow myself a couple indulgences a year in the $3000-$10,000 range. In the past 10 years I have bought custom skis, high end bicycles, high end digital camera, etc. Of course being Dr. Wine I have over 2000 bottles of high end wine in my cellar. On another note the stainless steel Patek I bought 20 years ago instead of a Rolex has appreciated way more than I would ever have imagined.

 

[ScarfTheVerb]

Yep, I just paid an unexpected $2k plumbing bill today and it caused zero stress. This financial security is the best part to me.

 

[Guillemot]

I agree that cars are a waste of money, but 120k seems like an arbitrary number. Why not 30k, 60k, etc?

 

[ToKingdomCome]

Middle class income is 65000-120000 depending on your source. Gross income. Youre easily 3x that. You're at least in top 10% territory if not top 5% (350K).

$300k full time even for academics is a bad offer? Will these big make academic institutions even negotiate with you or are they more or less a take it or leave it

 

[pgg]

someone who starts out of college making 100k starting, and makes 500k by age 35 a year is going to be way ahead IMO. there are plenty of those in banks, tech companies.

There it is, the i-banker reference. These threads never fail to deliver.

Timely interview -

TLDR version:

• Goldman-Sachs hires less than 1% of new college grad applicants. 300,000 applicants, 3,500 hires. You got into medical school, sure. This is harder.
• No comment on how many of those 3,500 will survive, much less make big money. I'm just gonna guess that they don't have to hire 3,500 newbies per year because 3,500 oldies are retiring as zillionaires. The article is about ending remote working because training and mentoring is important and has to occur in person - this implies that skills must be acquired and honed, which in turn implies that not everyone makes it.
• "It's eat what you kill." Despite the talk about mentoring, of course there's no room for dead weight. People here complain about how some unkind anesthesiologists might not share the well insured total joint days with the newbies ... somehow I'm skeptical that the senior i-bankers are tossing lucrative clients to their newbies.
• Eat whatcha kill is nice when you're enjoying a decade+ historic bull market. They just set aside $667M to cover anticipated losses in coming quarters. I'm going to guess that the next few years of the GS newbies eating what they killed isn't going to compare to recent years.

Medicine is still a golden ticket in good times, in bad times, in all times.

 

[nimbus]

There it is, the i-banker reference. These threads never fail to deliver.

Timely interview -

TLDR version:

• Goldman-Sachs hires less than 1% of new college grad applicants. 300,000 applicants, 3,500 hires. You got into medical school, sure. This is harder.
• No comment on how many of those 3,500 will survive, much less make big money. I'm just gonna guess that they don't have to hire 3,500 newbies per year because 3,500 oldies are retiring as zillionaires. The article is about ending remote working because training and mentoring is important and has to occur in person - this implies that skills must be acquired and honed, which in turn implies that not everyone makes it.
• "It's eat what you kill." Despite the talk about mentoring, of course there's no room for dead weight. People here complain about how some unkind anesthesiologists might not share the well insured total joint days with the newbies ... somehow I'm skeptical that the senior i-bankers are tossing lucrative clients to their newbies.
• Eat whatcha kill is nice when you're enjoying a decade+ historic bull market. They just set aside $667M to cover anticipated losses in coming quarters. I'm going to guess that the next few years of the GS newbies eating what they killed isn't going to compare to recent years.

Medicine is still a golden ticket in good times, in bad times, in all times.

Maybe not a golden ticket but it’s a good silver ticket.

 

[anbuitachi]

There it is, the i-banker reference. These threads never fail to deliver.

Timely interview -

TLDR version:

• Goldman-Sachs hires less than 1% of new college grad applicants. 300,000 applicants, 3,500 hires. You got into medical school, sure. This is harder.
• No comment on how many of those 3,500 will survive, much less make big money. I'm just gonna guess that they don't have to hire 3,500 newbies per year because 3,500 oldies are retiring as zillionaires. The article is about ending remote working because training and mentoring is important and has to occur in person - this implies that skills must be acquired and honed, which in turn implies that not everyone makes it.
• "It's eat what you kill." Despite the talk about mentoring, of course there's no room for dead weight. People here complain about how some unkind anesthesiologists might not share the well insured total joint days with the newbies ... somehow I'm skeptical that the senior i-bankers are tossing lucrative clients to their newbies.
• Eat whatcha kill is nice when you're enjoying a decade+ historic bull market. They just set aside $667M to cover anticipated losses in coming quarters. I'm going to guess that the next few years of the GS newbies eating what they killed isn't going to compare to recent years.

Medicine is still a golden ticket in good times, in bad times, in all times.

I stopped at the first couple sentences. You should read my post more carefully. I did not mention ibankers. Working in a bank doesn't equal investment banker.

 

[cchoukal]

$300k full time even for academics is a bad offer? Will these big make academic institutions even negotiate with you or are they more or less a take it or leave it

Even the VA pays well north of that number...

 

[anbuitachi]

Even the VA pays well north of that number...

Really?!?!

 

[cchoukal]

Really?!?!

yes, although in fairness total pay depends a lot on location; they pay more in more expensive areas.

 

[Iso4ane]

Yep, I just paid an unexpected $2k plumbing bill today and it caused zero stress. This financial security is the best part to me.

Just to be clear, having a unexpected 2k bill still sucks, but I don’t have to worry about hitting rent/car payments, or paying for food, utilities etc, just to make it up.

 

[Twiggidy]

I need motivation gas bros...

You watch Succession? Double that

 

[MirrorTodd]

Man my wife and I are currently hitting that 90's Hip-Hop/Rap and it is helping me dream again.

 

[aneftp]

Amazing that everyone finished with training is looking to exit as soon as they get just a bit of financial comfort.
Worked hard to get in and even harder(?) to ge

Really?!?!

Depending on location. Va pays 330k these days in most places. They just up the pay to 375k in a couple of places I know. Depends how desperate they get. Usual. “We don’t have money to pay you”. But when admin backs are against
The wall. They will offer it. Now mind u. 375k seems like a lot. But the private guys locally are making 550-600k. So apples to apples. It’s not a lot.

But VA is perfect for mommy track docs or older docs in late 50s wanting to retire. My friend just left the the VA after 8 years. But he had child care issues being single dad and needing to be home by 4pm most days. But only so much one can put up with red tape. There were 3 other docs who resigned also. So admin tried to up the pay to 375k but none of them would take it. There is a reason. You do your own cases at some Va and lots of uncompensated work. You don’t leave at 3pm every day. And calls and weekends are uncompensated.

 

[pgg]

I thought of this thread today.

I was in my back yard cutting down some dead ash trees this morning. Goddamn invasive beetles have killed like 90% of them in the area and some parts of our property look like a horror movie in moonlight, just broken leafless lifeless jagged tree trunks stabbing the sky. Anyway.

Chainsaw primer bulb had a crack so it wouldn't reliably prime. Kept wanting to suck in air. So I sat down in the grass and ordered a new bulb on my phone. Messed with the chainsaw some more, got it started, cut down some trees.

Went looking for my phone, found it smashed to **** under a tree. What are the odds ...

This would've been a very bad day for resident-me. But attending-me just drove into town and bought a new phone.

 

[NITRAS]

I thought of this thread today.

I was in my back yard cutting down some dead ash trees this morning. Goddamn invasive beetles have killed like 90% of them in the area and some parts of our property look like a horror movie in moonlight, just broken leafless lifeless jagged tree trunks stabbing the sky. Anyway.

Chainsaw primer bulb had a crack so it wouldn't reliably prime. Kept wanting to suck in air. So I sat down in the grass and ordered a new bulb on my phone. Messed with the chainsaw some more, got it started, cut down some trees.

Went looking for my phone, found it smashed to **** under a tree. What are the odds ...

This would've been a very bad day for resident-me. But attending-me just drove into town and bought a new phone.

lol. I’m sorry to laugh at your pain, but as I’ve messed with plenty of chainsaws recently, I’ve done lots of similar stuff. For small stuff, the battery powered chainsaws are way easier. Not the real power of a gas one, but most of my trees don’t need it.

 

[anaesthetic]

Not having any of the day-to-day financial stressors is a blessing many of us take for granted. We don’t ever really have to worry about the price of gas, rent, food, etc., and that isn’t the reality for most people in this country, let alone the world. Having grown up toeing the poverty line, it’s always been enough motivation for me to see things through throughout medical school and residency (fellowship was a blast!).

 

[nimbus]

I thought of this thread today.

I was in my back yard cutting down some dead ash trees this morning. Goddamn invasive beetles have killed like 90% of them in the area and some parts of our property look like a horror movie in moonlight, just broken leafless lifeless jagged tree trunks stabbing the sky. Anyway.

Chainsaw primer bulb had a crack so it wouldn't reliably prime. Kept wanting to suck in air. So I sat down in the grass and ordered a new bulb on my phone. Messed with the chainsaw some more, got it started, cut down some trees.

Went looking for my phone, found it smashed to **** under a tree. What are the odds ...

This would've been a very bad day for resident-me. But attending-me just drove into town and bought a new phone.

My buddy likes to say “money solves most problems.”

 

[pgg]

lol. I’m sorry to laugh at your pain, but as I’ve messed with plenty of chainsaws recently, I’ve done lots of similar stuff. For small stuff, the battery powered chainsaws are way easier. Not the real power of a gas one, but most of my trees don’t need it.

I was dubious about the electric ones until I bought a Stihl battery chainsaw ... I have to say it's pretty great. The battery lasts a surprisingly long time too. And it's quiet so no need for hearing protection. Easy on and off. It's the first one I grab unless a 12"+ tree needs to come down. But definitely needed the big one today.

The tree and its victim -

 

[anesussy]

Even the VA pays well north of that number...

Uhhh my local VA pays about that much (300k).

They also pay crnas 200k (could be with overtime, but that's the number I saw - and I really doubt they're paying the docs overtime).

 

[Twiggidy]

My buddy likes to say “money solves most problems.”

Because for the most part it does

 

[bigdan]

Living on attending money won’t compare to Fortune 500 CEO pay, as others have highlighted. And like most things in life, the perception of your worth/wealth is a matter of perspective and is relative.

I had a prior career as an occupational therapist, and maxed out (in an admin role) at $59k/yr. Wasn’t wasteful, and lived in a low COL area. In retrospect, I couldn’t cover an emergency expense.

Attending money, to be succinct, provides options that aren’t open to those making less. Current professional drama in my life is wifey wants more time with the kids…so she told her admin folks “I need to work 0.7 FTE”. They told her “that won’t work for us”, so she said “Oh. Okay. Then I’m done working here.” That go-pound-sand option probably wouldn’t exist (as easily, and with the expectation of lifestyle- neutrality) if I didn’t make anesthesiologist attending money.

 

[anesussy]

Living on attending money won’t compare to Fortune 500 CEO pay, as others have highlighted. And like most things in life, the perception of your worth/wealth is a matter of perspective and is relative.

I had a prior career as an occupational therapist, and maxed out (in an admin role) at $59k/yr. Wasn’t wasteful, and lived in a low COL area. In retrospect, I couldn’t cover an emergency expense.

Attending money, to be succinct, provides options that aren’t open to those making less. Current professional drama in my life is wifey wants more time with the kids…so she told her admin folks “I need to work 0.7 FTE”. They told her “that won’t work for us”, so she said “Oh. Okay. Then I’m done working here.” That go-pound-sand option probably wouldn’t exist (as easily, and with the expectation of lifestyle- neutrality) if I didn’t make anesthesiologist attending money.

Sounds like the real winning move is to marry an attending and just quit your job 🤠

Also, surprised that OT makes relatively little. That’s like resident money

 

[chocomorsel]

Sounds like the real winning move is to marry an attending and just quit your job 🤠

Also, surprised that OT makes relatively little. That’s like resident money

That was a long time ago. I bet they make way more now.

 

[anbuitachi]

I was dubious about the electric ones until I bought a Stihl battery chainsaw ... I have to say it's pretty great. The battery lasts a surprisingly long time too. And it's quiet so no need for hearing protection. Easy on and off. It's the first one I grab unless a 12"+ tree needs to come down. But definitely needed the big one today.

The tree and its victim -

View attachment 357548

thats a massive tree. you cut that down yourself? where did that giant tree fall??

 

[anbuitachi]

i was reminded of this thread a couple days ago when i went grocery shopping for a few things. it reminded me of the changes that happened because of my attending paycheck, compared to even <10 years ago when i was in residency. when i was paying with my CC, i didnt even look at the total, and i just swiped. when she handed me the receipt, i didnt even look to see if there are any mistakes, i took it and left the store.

in the past, i would look at the items as they come up on the register to see the prices are correct, the discounts are applied.

now , i just pay, because i dont think its worth my time and energy to do so. it wasnt a huge order, ended up being around 15$ or so, but still, it's good to have that feeling of not having to worry about something coming up as 99c/lb vs the advertised 79c/lb

 

[chocomorsel]

You slowly start becoming wasteful. Be careful of that.

For me, I can finally buy $100 shoes and occasionally $200-300 gowns. Of course I prefer them to be on sale anyway. And a nice used car. And vacations, not fancy expensive five star ones but vacations to Europe which I never did before recently.. And occasionally upgrading to First Class.
And like above buying groceries without feeling like you gotta choose food or rent. You can now have both without sacrificing. And paying with plastic knowing you can afford to pay the bill in full every month even if its 8K occasionally.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

The 3000sqft house I owned before was massive. 2000sqft is downsizing. To each their own, but my cats get their own room for their stuff. I work hard to give my cats a better life.

That is funny bc the only thing that appreciates me less than my kids is our cats. They are overjoyed with the cardboard box and plastic that came with a new mattress.

 

[DocVapor]

You slowly start becoming wasteful. Be careful of that.

For me, I can finally buy $100 shoes and occasionally $200-300 gowns. Of course I prefer them to be on sale anyway. And a nice used car. And vacations, not fancy expensive five star ones but vacations to Europe which I never did before recently.. And occasionally upgrading to First Class.
And like above buying groceries without feeling like you gotta choose food or rent. You can now have both without sacrificing. And paying with plastic knowing you can afford to pay the bill in full every month even if its 8K occasionally.

For me this is especially important. I actually love cars and driving, so a nice car is important. I am not talking brand new Ferraris or Aston Martins, but there are plenty of very affordable used 3-5 year old "exotics" out there. I'm talking cheaper than a new Chevy full-size SUV or Ford electric pickup truck. (Not to mention that right now you can actually get one of those used exotics).

Some people are all about travelling. I'll do some of that, but I get to enjoy my new-to-me exotic vehicle every single day.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Yeah because what you think the job is as a premed vs what it actually is are two totally different things

My daughter was telling me she was sure about her career bc it didn't bring intense joy. Spoiler alert, no job does. Set your expectations accordingly and try to enjoy the good parts.

FWIW, listen to every person that ever won a SuperBowl, World Series, etc. It is never as gratifying as what their expectations are.

 

[Iso4ane]

thats a massive tree. you cut that down yourself? where did that giant tree fall??

On the phone, weren't you paying attention.?

 

[BobLoblaw78]

I was dubious about the electric ones until I bought a Stihl battery chainsaw ... I have to say it's pretty great. The battery lasts a surprisingly long time too. And it's quiet so no need for hearing protection. Easy on and off. It's the first one I grab unless a 12"+ tree needs to come down. But definitely needed the big one today.

The tree and its victim -

View attachment 357548

I was just looking at one of the Stihl electric chainsaws today. I mainly want it for those smaller trees when I am clearing new paths or new foliage that creeps in. What size do you have? Would you go bigger or smaller?

 

[DocVapor]

I was just looking at one of the Stihl electric chainsaws today. I mainly want it for those smaller trees when I am clearing new paths or new foliage that creeps in. What size do you have? Would you go bigger or smaller?

I had a Kobalt 80v chainsaw with an 18 inch bar and it was impressive until I broke it, probably due to my inexperience. I upgraded to a gas powered Stihl with a 20 inch bar, but now I'm wanting another battery one for the small stuff or if I only need to make a couple cuts. I'm thinking 16 inch would be a good size myself.

I did buy the Stihl handheld pruning chainsaw for my wife. I gotta say that thing is hella fun.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Last week, I spent over $1000 buying a few raw selvedge denim jeans and nice causal shirts. Made with high quality hand made, real indigo, Japanese denim. They feel really nice. Unparallel quality. Didn't think twice. I would never have dreamt of spending such money for clothes as a resident. I used to buy used clothes.

 

[MirrorTodd]

You all with your fancy ass machines. Nothing better in life than chopping down a tree nothing but your ax and balls guiding the way, Paul Bunyan style

 

[ChiDO]

You all with your fancy ass machines. Nothing better in life than chopping down a tree nothing but your ax and balls guiding the way, Paul Bunyan style

No need to use a chainsaw or an axe, you have money to pay professionals to do that so you don't see your local orthopaedic hand surgeon because you cut off your fingers and livelihood

 

[chocomorsel]

You all with your fancy ass machines. Nothing better in life than chopping down a tree nothing but your ax and balls guiding the way, Paul Bunyan style

I bet you are big and sexy! Hell yeah. Why fix what ain’t broke.

 

[nimbus]

You all with your fancy ass machines. Nothing better in life than chopping down a tree nothing but your ax and balls guiding the way, Paul Bunyan style

But power tools turn a 30min job into a 1 minute job. I even have a little mini chainsaw on a stick….helps me stay off ladders….still maybe not the best idea.

 

[DocVapor]

No need to use a chainsaw or an axe, you have money to pay professionals to do that so you don't see your local orthopaedic hand surgeon because you cut off your fingers and livelihood

Eh. I find it enjoyable. I study everything before I start cutting. If I get at all uneasy I either don't start or I stop then I call professionals. But there is plenty on my property that I can handle myself in 30 min or less that it makes no sense to pay someone to come do. I wear the chaps, eye protection, gloves, etc so I hopefully don't gore myself or lose an eye. I'm not climbing trees - if it's something my pole saw can't reach, I'm not doing it.

I also do woodworking. I'm more likely to injure myself using my table saw, miter saw, or router.

I have good own-occcupation disability and life insurances which don't exclude these activities.

 

[pocafx]

Last week, I spent over $1000 buying a few raw selvedge denim jeans and nice causal shirts. Made with high quality hand made, real indigo, Japanese denim. They feel really nice. Unparallel quality. Didn't think twice. I would never have dreamt of spending such money for clothes as a resident. I used to buy used clothes.

Japan blue? Or….?

 

[coffeebythelake]

Japan blue? Or….?

Weird Guy - Emperor of Slub - Grand Blue

The Emperor of Slub - Grand Blue is a 23oz Unsanforized Japanese selvedge denim with an extremely slubby uneven texture, a result of low tension weaving techniques, and the use of custom developed irregular sized King Slub Yarn. The King Slub Yarn was developed over a 2 year period, as standard...

tateandyoko.com

Emperor of Slub. Naked and Famous. Great brand. Most of their products are made in Canada with sourced fabric, but these ones were made in Japan. $500 buckaroos and worth it. Also got a pair of Vulgar Selvedge, Black Cobra. There are some good deals on Amazon and even on Zappos but sizing can be limited, and obviously not including their super premium products.

I did a lot of online research on the other denim companies like Momotaro and Japan Blue, but N+F I think is the best quality at the given price point.

(This is not an advertisement)

 

[agammaglobulin]

What’s it like living on an attending salary?

It’s like warm apple pie.