Why I Finally Chose to Quit Pursuing Medicine

[Dr Van Helsing]

Except I hate video games, mainly bc video games are for middle schoolers. Unbeknownst to me (until Ark told me) Game of Thrones is a video game, and not just a television series.

Video games are for middle schoolers as SDN is for pre-med neurotics.

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[DermViser]

Valuable advice from an experienced source. And I think that all students, sooner or later, will come to appreciate what you've mentioned here and elsewhere. Let's just hope that they appreciate it before entering medical school rather than after -- those who know what to expect before entering, I think, will be more prepared to deal with the challenges ahead of them, and consequently happier in the end.

To be fair, it's many people's advice who are further along the journey, which pre-allos either start throwing ad hominem personal attacks, refuse to acknowledge the realities, and/or put their fingers in their ears saying it's untrue. It's why many allos and those further along don't post in Pre-Allo anymore, bc there is this impenetrable bubble. See the 80 hr. work week thread that exploded in Pre-Allo: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...esidents-really-true-or-just-a-rumor.1104085/

 

[Pierre Escargot]

It's hard to blame them for not wanting to offer further advice, in truth. I think it's important to understand as premedical students that those with more experience than us are only trying to share a bit of that experience for our own information. It would be unreasonable to assume that they are discouraging others from entering medicine or something like that. I understand such posts from current med students/physicians simply as telling us to prepare and to avoid underestimation by gathering information about every facet of the profession, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that -- I'd say they're doing us a favor, in fact.

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

Free Tip - When you start arguing for no reason , you start digging a deeper hole and people on the top start laughing at you.

Hooookayyy. ✌️

 

[DermViser]

Just so we're clear, a college freshman only 3 months in to their first semester was never "pursuing medicine." ...

Which made his use of the word "finally" particularly humorous

Just out of curiosity, what is the time where one can officially say they are pursuing medicine? And more importantly, which one is the smarter person when that person decides that medicine is no longer the field for them and wants to quit?

 

[It's all good]

[Redacted] Medicine is not a bad field in and of itself, but because of how medicine is changing, and how medicine isn't changing, there are a lot of problems with the field.. If you feel the need to comment on this post to reassure yourself that the decision to pursue medicine is the "right" endeavor for you, feel free. I understand: I did the same thing for many years. In fact, I'm not even writing this to dissuade aspiring doctors. I'm writing this just to get my voice out there.

Ever since I was a young child, I wanted to become a doctor. The field itself was very intriguing to me, and the prestige and money that "seemed" to accompany medicine acted as a snare as well. All throughout high school, medicine seemed like the only option for me. I did well in school and on standardized tests, and many of my superiors saw me as a practical and mature thinker.

Fast forward to this past August. I was frequenting SDN, and I was preparing for my first year of college. It was an exciting time, filled with the anticipation for opportunity. Given the amount of work that lied ahead for my pre-med self, I wanted to make sure that I knew everything that I needed to know by listening to members of this site, as well as doctors, residents, and members of medical academia on other sites.

This "research" of mine had an unexpected effect.

Countless members spoke of their rejections. Countless threads mentioned doctors who regretted pursuing a degree in medicine. Countless residents complained of their horrid hours and even worse social lives. On other websites, broader topics such as divorce rates and the effects of legislation (specifically Obamacare) were discussed. And of course, everything made medicine appear less and less appealing.

I wasn't going to quit though. Medicine was surely still the best option for me. I never dreamed of a future where the title of "doctor" didn't precede my last name.

A buddy of mine who was going into actuarial science started talking to me about his college plans. Not once did he try to persuade me against medicine, but what he said was incredibly influential.

He was going to a good school that wasn't very expensive. As an actuary, he would walk into a field that required nothing more than a bachelor's degree. I accompanied him when he met with his advisor before he year started (which I was surprised the advisor let me do), and that is when everything changed. The advisor, an 30-something-year-old, had been in the field of actuarial science for over ten years. He joined academia to get his summers off and longer breaks to spend with his children. But what did he say?

By the time many of that college's graduates turned 28, they were making nearly six figures.
After several years with a company, many of the graduates had a work-from-home day each week. Maybe even two.
The hours? 8-4:30 initially. Eventually the time spend at work would decrease to maybe 9-4:30 as the worker proved their capabilities.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the expected job growth for actuaries was 26%.

I was shocked. "How could a four-year degree offer such a fantastic salary, lifestyle, and job growth?" That is a question I asked myself, and continued to ask myself long after the meeting ended.

No, this is not my plug for actuarial science. This is my plug against medicine. (Although actuarial science is indeed a fantastic field.)

Lifestyle

I don't feel like explaining this. You all know what I'm talking about, you're knowledgable on this subject. The best explanation I can offer is through this link. If you pay attention to anything in this thread, please pay attention to this link.

Debt, Salary, and Legislation

All of you know that debt sucks, and doctors have a lot of it. I'm not going to re-explain what all of you (should) already know. Salary and legislation on the other: How many of you realize that reimbursement for doctors is on the decline? How many of you know that in states like Minnesota, access to specialized doctors is being limited to a certain number of visits per year? Simple economics says that if you have less clients, you will receive less money. Hospitals won't be able to afford the large salaries of specialized physicians when the services of the physicians aren't being paid for as they were before.

Couple that with the increasing cost of schooling and you get a profession where the graduates end up in a very regrettable field.

The Result of Your Life

At age 22, my friend will end his schooling with a grand total of <$25k in debt. He will start anywhere between $50k and $65k, and in just a few years be making nearly $100k. If I stayed on the medical path? I would potentially be in medical school, indirectly making myself an indentured servant to the big banks of America. If I wasn't so lucky? I would become one of the 57% who didn't make it into medical school, effectively wasting my undergrad years, slaving away at shadowing, volunteering, incredibly difficult courses, and whatever else that could make me a good applicant.

At age 28, my friend was modest and fiscally responsible, he could be debt free. If not, he would have very little left to pay. Oh, and the company he's working at? Yeah, he's taken actuarial exams that have increased his pay by nearly double. His work has been stressful at times -- just like any profession -- but he's a lot less stressed than me, who is now worked 60-80 hours per week in a residency.

At age 34, I'm finally a licensed independent doctor. I'm freeeee- oh wait. No I'm not. I'm not even a little. I have roughly $200,000 in debt, and I'm still working arduous hours. My (dingus) friend? He's worked his way up in the company, or maybe he's found a better position and another company. He's making half as much as me. Ha! But wait -- he's been debt free for years, and he's able to focus on other things, like his 401k, retirement, and his house.

You see, at age 25, my buddy would be going out to the bars and getting nice dinners with dates and friends and coworkers. He would be living up his 20's in a STEM profession (mathematics, specifically) that is netting him an above-average salary that's increasing every year.

Reset. I'm 18 years old and just starting college.

Do I want to wait until I'm in my 30's to begin my life? Do I want to wait fifteen years to join a field that may or may not be what I expected? Do I want to put myself into such unforgivable debt that it won't be until my 40's that I will be free, yet in a field that may be declining in reimbursement and still hard hours?

No. I do not. I do no want that at all.

Am I saying that you should get a job as an actuary? Hell no. If that's not what you want, then don't do it. It's just an example. What I am saying? Take it from the guy in that link: Medicine probably isn't going to end up being the ideal profession you expect it to be. There are a lot of better alternatives.

You are a precocious, well-informed freshman. I am a career-switcher who left a 75k job starting out of college in actuarial science in NYC for med school. I subsequently turned down a full-ride to a state school for a much less than full ride to an expensive private school. Both of these decisions haunt me. SDN user old_mil had an insightful post.

"There's a lot of foolishness out there in society about careers people are meant for. According to such people, unless you find your one true calling you won't be happy. This is a completely %^&* concept. Look - the bottom line is that when push comes to shove, medicine is a job...just like any number of other jobs out there. Yes, there is a strong service/social justice component to medicine, but the bottom line of work for any living breathing human is to maximize the quality of the food on the table and a the roof over your head. Work is an obligation - an often upleasant obligation - not a hobby...and overly philosophical pablum about callings doesn't sound quite so profound when you can't afford braces for the kids or new tires for the car."

Now, if I could add a little life advice. There is no need to commit oneself to a single career post college. Do well in school, learn practical skills (programming, math, business), and network - i.e. party, meet girls, and cultivate friendships. If you really, really , REALLY want to pursue medicine, then shadow, shadow, SHADOW until you really appreciate what physicians do. They eat more **** than pre-meds understand. I know many doctors' children who pursue med school with no appreciation of the **** their parents eat on a daily basis. The only saving grace of medicine is the intangibles that money could never compensate for such as human interaction and impact. Most days, I question if these intangibles outweigh the financial/social sacrifices that have necessarily accompanied my career choice.

 

[FutureOncologist]

Ya see premeds, THIS is the exact reason why medical schools make you shadow for 100+ hours.

I don't think OP has even sat down with a doctor face-face for 5 minutes to ask about what s/he thinks about practicing medicine.

 

[allantois]

Almost everyone here likes @DermViser. I argue with him sometimes, but I still have to read his posts because he most of the time tells the truth and don't BS around.

I like him except when he is picking on what I have to say

 

[Sportsdude89]

Does the three strike rule for malpractice and practicing begin in residency ? Wow @ its all good why would you turn down a full ride to a state school?

 

[jl lin]

You are a precocious, well-informed freshman. I am a career-switcher who left a 75k job starting out of college in actuarial science in NYC for med school. I subsequently turned down a full-ride to a state school for a much less than full ride to an expensive private school. Both of these decisions haunt me. SDN user old_mil had an insightful post.

"There's a lot of foolishness out there in society about careers people are meant for. According to such people, unless you find your one true calling you won't be happy. This is a completely %^&* concept. Look - the bottom line is that when push comes to shove, medicine is a job...just like any number of other jobs out there. Yes, there is a strong service/social justice component to medicine, but the bottom line of work for any living breathing human is to maximize the quality of the food on the table and a the roof over your head. Work is an obligation - an often upleasant obligation - not a hobby...and overly philosophical pablum about callings doesn't sound quite so profound when you can't afford braces for the kids or new tires for the car."

Good points in your second paragraph.

In your first, well, I feel like there are also good points, but the notion that one's work being a calling is BS, well, I personally disagree. It's not one or the other. Something like medicine in particular, well, for a number of people, it is both a calling AND it's a job--w/ all the obligations and so forth. I'm not suggesting anyone should feel a calling to it, if they do not. But I am saying, for many, there is something more to it than just being about a job or daily grind. I truly wonder what impact one will have on others, ultimately, as well as themselves, if they do not feel a deeper connection to what they are doing and why.

 

[It's all good]

Does the three strike rule for malpractice and practicing begin in residency ? Wow @ its all good why would you turn down a full ride to a state school?

idealism knows no bounds as a pre-med

 

[It's all good]

Good points in your second paragraph.

In your first, well, I feel like there are also good points, but the notion that one's work being a calling is BS, well, I personally disagree. It's not one or the other. Something like medicine in particular, well, for a number of people, it is both a calling AND it's a job--w/ all the obligations and so forth. I'm not suggesting anyone should feel a calling to it, if they do not. But I am saying, for many, there is something more to it than just being about a job or daily grind. I truly wonder what impact one will have on others, ultimately, as well as themselves, if they do not feel a deeper connection to what they are doing and why.

Fair. It's much easier to succeed in a profession that one believes in.

 

[ridethecliche]

I'm amazed that this is still going.

 

[The Buff OP]

So why does this thread have like 8 pages?

 

[SpartanWolverine]

So why does this thread have like 8 pages?

Tangents, bickering, and ... butthurt?

... I just can't believe I read all of it.

 

[lnvictus]

So why does this thread have like 8 pages?

You don't know? Threads containing premeds criticizing medicine is guaranteed at least 4 pages on SDN, it's like an undocumented law

 

[Lamel]

Lol OP succeeded in pissing off a bunch of people, which was obviously his main intention even if he made some good points.

 

[Pusheen]

And you would be wrong. I'm not surprised, as a premed you seem to have all the answers, however. Doctors, esp. those in more socialized healthcare systems, have a set number of hours, are unionized, etc. They don't even work even close to the number of hours that doctors in the United States do, and their level of debt is almost nothing compared to your USMG. But please, tell me more.

I'm not going to argue against your bogus claims. I'm originally from a country in Eastern Europe and while it varies greatly from country to country the compensation of physicians there is compatible to that of teachers or bankers; they are certainly not on the top of the earning bracket like US physicians. My relative who is a surgeon works just as many hours as US surgeons do in an understaffed and underequipped hospital without having the luxury to refer many cases to super specialized surgeons, the way it would be done here.

I'm a little late here, but I'm just going to support allenlchs. I also grew up in Eastern Europe and doctors are paid peanuts. They do house calls and overtime essentially for free. There aren't set numbers of hours, unions, ect in many, if not most countries.
These aren't anecdotes, this is how the world is outside of the US and other highly developed countries. With all due respect, DermViser isn't going to win this one.

That being said, this thread has gone to pot. But I still had to jump in and comment on a subject near and dear to me