Why I Finally Chose to Quit Pursuing Medicine

BU Medical Sciences
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W19 said:
That's why I have been advocating 2+3 years med school... 2 years undergrad and 3 years of med school... That might solve some of the student debt problem...
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What the hell are you going to cut out of med school without affecting student quality? The only programs I know of that do 3 years are geared toward primary care, aside from the 12 spots at LECOM for PAs that go for a straight 36 months of school. If you look at that, you've basically got a program that saves you 5 months of training in exchange for the 24 months of training you got as a PA...

I'm also a very strong advocate of the 4 year degree prior to your MD, as it does a great job of sorting out who is and who isn't cut out for med school, as well as providing backup options for those that don't make the cut (if they play their cards wisely).
 
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DermViser said:
Which one is the smarter decision?
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Quitting in freshman year is the better decision, of course. I just found the wording funny.

For clarification, I'd like to say that I know OP is correct in saying that the sacrifices involved in following the path of medicine are numerous and substantial and that it is certainly not for everyone. My view of the medical profession is not one of glamor or that it comes easily whatsoever. The only thing that I didn't like was the way he said 'I am telling you that the field you are going into is not prestigious' to a previous poster, because I feel like that's rude to say to the people who are well aware of the challenges ahead of them and who have decided to stay on the path regardless, or those who have already completed their medical education.
 
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Pierre Escargot said:
Quitting in freshman year is the better decision, of course. I just found the wording funny.

For clarification, I'd like to say that I know OP is correct in saying that the sacrifices involved in following the path of medicine are numerous and substantial and that it is certainly not for everyone. My view of the medical profession is not one of glamor or that it comes easily whatsoever. The only thing that I didn't like was the way he said 'I am telling you that the field you are going into is not prestigious' to a previous poster, because I feel like that's rude to say to the people who are well aware of the challenges ahead of them and who have decided to stay on the path regardless, or those who have already completed their medical education.
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What did he say in that sentence is wrong? So in other words, you didn't like the tone, not the substance. Do you actually think the general public thinks that being a doctor is "prestigious" or more importantly, do you think they care? I don't see it as rude at all. If someone is going into medicine with one (not all) of the reasons being the prestige, then it's a very bad reason. Nothing "rude" about it. Apparently, you haven't treated the very rich as patients who treat their physicians as their handmaidens.

I also would disagree with you that premeds are "well aware of the challenges ahead of them". Many of them (including med students) support Obamacare, but have absolutely no idea how it will affect them even though that's the system they will work under for a very long time.

Once you're on the merry go round, it's much more difficult to get off the longer you're on it. You can get off but not w/o great deleterious consequences when you're in too deep.
 
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DermViser said:
What did he say in that sentence is wrong? So in other words, you didn't like the tone, not the substance. Do you actually think the general public thinks that being a doctor is "prestigious" or more importantly, do you think they care? I don't see it as rude at all. If someone is going into medicine with one (not all) of the reasons being the prestige, then it's a very bad reason. Nothing "rude" about it. Apparently, you haven't treated the very rich as patients who treat their physicians as their handmaidens.

I also would disagree with you that premeds are "well aware of the challenges ahead of them". Many of them (including med students) support Obamacare, but have absolutely no idea how it will affect them even though that's the system they will work under for a very long time.

Once you're on the merry go round, it's much more difficult to get off the longer you're on it. You can get off but not w/o great deleterious consequences when you're in too deep.
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Prestige certainly shouldn't be a reason for wanting to study medicine, and I didn't say that everyone looks at medicine as a prestigious career or that they care. That being the case, you are correct that it was the tone and wording that I didn't like, but can't someone's tone or choice of words be considered rude or disparaging? You might say that I'm being overly sensitive but I assure you I'm not insulted or discouraged by what he said. I just felt like responding.

And of course not all premeds know what they're getting into. Some do, and a large number don't. But I'm speaking only about the people who have put in effort to know what they're getting into and also those who are already into it and make the sacrifices because they feel that medicine is the career that will be fulfilling to them personally. Your last comment is also something I completely agree with.

Overall I think maybe my posts were misunderstood, which could be my own fault for not being clear enough, but we seem to be largely on the same page here.
 
Mad Jack said:
What the hell are you going to cut out of med school without affecting student quality? The only programs I know of that do 3 years are geared toward primary care, aside from the 12 spots at LECOM for PAs that go for a straight 36 months of school. If you look at that, you've basically got a program that saves you 5 months of training in exchange for the 24 months of training you got as a PA...

I'm also a very strong advocate of the 4 year degree prior to your MD, as it does a great job of sorting out who is and who isn't cut out for med school, as well as providing backup options for those that don't make the cut (if they play their cards wisely).
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The 3-year NY program is not geared toward primary care... The 4-year undergrad is counter productive in providing a back up to another career since the majority of premed are bio major... A 2 year prereq would be better as people would not be two invested in physician pathway... Study have shown that foreign trained physicians practicing in this country are as competent as american trained physicians... You are just supporting in a system that is putting people in massive debt because 'well, that how it has always been'...

http://school.med.nyu.edu/student-resources/medical-education/md-curriculum/three-year-md-degree
 
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DermViser said:
What did he say in that sentence is wrong? So in other words, you didn't like the tone, not the substance. Do you actually think the general public thinks that being a doctor is "prestigious" or more importantly, do you think they care? I don't see it as rude at all. If someone is going into medicine with one (not all) of the reasons being the prestige, then it's a very bad reason. Nothing "rude" about it. Apparently, you haven't treated the very rich as patients who treat their physicians as their handmaidens.

I also would disagree with you that premeds are "well aware of the challenges ahead of them". Many of them (including med students) support Obamacare, but have absolutely no idea how it will affect them even though that's the system they will work under for a very long time.

Once you're on the merry go round, it's much more difficult to get off the longer you're on it. You can get off but not w/o great deleterious consequences when you're in too deep.
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The general public thinks physicians are somewhat smart and they make a lot of money... I am not sure if these equal to prestige however..
 
Pierre Escargot said:
Prestige certainly shouldn't be a reason for wanting to study medicine, and I didn't say that everyone looks at medicine as a prestigious career or that they care. That being the case, you are correct that it was the tone and wording that I didn't like, but can't someone's tone or choice of words be considered rude or disparaging? You might say that I'm being overly sensitive but I assure you I'm not insulted or discouraged by what he said. I just felt like responding.

And of course not all premeds know what they're getting into. Some do, and a large number don't. But I'm speaking only about the people who have put in effort to know what they're getting into and also those who are already into it and make the sacrifices because they feel that medicine is the career that will be fulfilling to them personally. Your last comment is also something I completely agree with.

Overall I think maybe my posts were misunderstood, which could be my own fault for not being clear enough, but we seem to be largely on the same page here.
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I just tend to think substance is more important than tone. Main reason being it's in an interpretation on that person's part reading it, which is hard to understand the person's intention since it's in words not voice. I also think many premeds do put in as much effort to know what they're getting into but they either do the wrong things or just aren't able to delve further as much as they'd like to without appearing to be rude to others, by asking about the negatives as well as the positives. The sacrifices made in medicine both in medical school and long after med school is over is usually difficult for most premeds to comprehend and the ones who are give this information tend to gloss it over or bash the person who said it, as evidenced by this thread here, and the likes given by certain users here on ad hominem posts to the OP. I'm not saying OP is 100% correct, but I have yet to see someone debate him on the actual substance and arguments he's making.
 
W19 said:
The general public thinks physicians are somewhat smart and they make a lot of money... I am not sure if these equal to prestige however..
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The general public tends to think that doctors (as a profession) are overpaid.
 
W19 said:
The 3-year NY program is not geared toward primary care... The 4-year undergrad is counter productive in providing a back up to another career since the majority of premed are bio major... A 2 year prereq would be better as people would not be two invested in physician pathway... Study have shown that foreign trained physicians practicing in this country are as competent as american trained physicians... You are just supporting in a system that is putting people in massive debt because 'well, that how it has always been'...
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I'm supporting a system that cuts out as many weak physicians as humanly possible by grinding the weak ones to dust.

As to specialties from NYU's 3-year program, you have to pick your specialty immediately upon starting, specifically go to NYU-Lagone residencies, AND be accepted by the program in question when you start the 3-year program. I highly doubt the competitive residencies would just hand their spot to an unknown kid fresh out of undergrad that is going to have less overall clinical experience and time for research when compared to traditional 4-year applicants. So, while NYU's program theoretically offers you a shot at specialties, it is much more likely that you'll end up in IM, FM, or some of the other programs that would be more likely to take a wild card of a student. Derm and neurosurg have their pick of the litter, why the hell would they give up a spot to a kid that hasn't even completed a single day of medical school? And, sure, you can change your mind later on, but then you get shunted into the 4 year pathway if whatever residency you're interested in decides not to take you.
 
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Mad Jack said:
I'm supporting a system that cuts out as many weak physicians as humanly possible by grinding the weak ones to dust.

As to specialties from NYU's 3-year program, you have to pick your specialty immediately upon starting, specifically go to NYU-Lagone residencies, AND be accepted by the program in question when you start the 3-year program. I highly doubt the competitive residencies would just hand their spot to an unknown kid fresh out of undergrad that is going to have less overall clinical experience and time for research when compared to traditional 4-year applicants. So, while NYU's program theoretically offers you a shot at specialties, it is much more likely that you'll end up in IM, FM, or some of the other programs that would be more likely to take a wild card of a student. Derm and neurosurg have their pick of the litter, why the hell would they give up a spot to a kid that hasn't even completed a single day of medical school? And, sure, you can change your mind later on, but then you get shunted into the 4 year pathway if whatever residency you're interested in decides not to take you.
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saying that student will end up in FM/IM is just speculation... How a 4-year undergrad would cuts out weak physicians? unless you believe art/music/political science courses make one a better physician... pharmacy was 5 years, does anyone believe these RPH were dangerous?
 
DermViser said:
I just tend to think substance is more important than tone. Main reason being it's in an interpretation on that person's part reading it, which is hard to understand the person's intention since it's in words not voice.
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I agree, having only text to go by can make things harder to understand. In retrospect his intentions seem harmless since he even went back and edited his first post to try and lessen the probability such misunderstandings.
I also think many premeds do put in as much effort to know what they're getting into but they either do the wrong things or just aren't able to delve further as much as they'd like to without appearing to be rude to others, by asking about the negatives as well as the positives. The sacrifices made in medicine both in medical school and long after med school is over is usually difficult for most premeds to comprehend and the ones who are give this information tend to gloss it over or bash the person who said it, as evidenced by this thread here, and the likes given by certain users here on ad hominem posts to the OP. I'm not saying OP is 100% correct, but I have yet to see someone debate him on the actual substance and arguments he's making.
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Sure. That's why getting opinions that make sure to mention the sacrifices is really important. It can be quite disastrous for a premedical student to get into medical school having no idea how much they'll be giving up both during and after medical school, as you've already mentioned. In my personal case I feel as though I've done adequate research such that I know that the sacrifices will be very large. Because I don't have the firsthand experience yet, naturally I can't speak of each and every specific challenge that I will face, but I feel as though I can at least properly envision the things I'll likely have to give up. Notwithstanding, I feel that medicine is the career that I will find fulfilling and personally rewarding for my own self.

I think also that maybe people responded in such a manner because OP's posts, while having some truth to them, are not coming from an individual with lots of experience like a current medical student or physician, which led them to dismiss his views. But again I do think that these are things that everyone should contemplate and consider before jumping in.
 
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W19 said:
saying that student will end up in FM/IM is just speculation... How a 4-year undergrad would cuts out weak physicians? unless you believe art/music/political science courses make one a better physician... pharmacy was 5 years, does anyone believe these RPH were dangerous?
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The RPh to PharmD is nothing more than degree creep. The excuse given is always, there is so much more stuff that needs to be known. No different than a masters degree for a PT to now a doctorate in that field either.
 
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DermViser said:
The RPh to PharmD is nothing more than degree creep. The excuse given is always, there is so much more stuff that needs to be known. No different than a masters degree for a PT to now a doctorate in that field either.
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That was my point... School administrators will come up with any BS so they can protect their cushy job... Look at the change they are about to make to the MCAT. They would tell you it would produce better physicians:rolleyes: .Do people really believe if tomorrow all med school become a 3-year program that physicians' quality would be compromised?
 
W19 said:
That was my point... School administrators will come up with any BS so they can protect their cushy job... Look at the change they are about to make to the MCAT. They would tell you it would produce better physicians:rolleyes: .Do people really believe if tomorrow all med school become a 3-year program that physicians' quality would be compromised?
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If it really made better physicians then you would only get into med school with the new MCAT version. Not allow some to take the old version and some to take the new version.
 
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I hope you aren't surprised to find out that there are quicker jobs to make money in than Medicine. If that's what appeals to you, then go for it I guess.......I've just never known another 18 year old who aspired to be an Actuary. I guess I had some thoughts comparable to yours awhile ago, but then I realized that if I'm going to spend 30+ years in a career, it better be something interesting. There are plenty of jobs out there that pay the bills, but quite frankly, I think they are boring. Oh, and Medicine seems a little bit better if you just consider your Residency to be your first job.......50k a year, which is kind of like what most college graduates make anyways.
 
DermViser said:
Realize also there might be some tamping down in terms of experience, bc naturally docs don't want to seem unprofessional around newbies.
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I was scrubbing in to assist with a surgeon I shadow and a hospital staff member comes up to him and tells him something. A few seconds later he looks at me and says "Jesus fcking Christ!" I'm like lol what doc? and he goes on to explain that they have him operating on a patient he knows nothing about and there's something wrong with her that makes that particularly concerning. So, I guess some doctors will be more candid lol.
 
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J Senpai said:
I was scrubbing in to assist with a surgeon I shadow and a hospital staff member comes up to him and tells him something. A few seconds later he looks at me and says "Jesus fcking Christ!" I'm like lol what doc? and he goes on to explain that they have him operating on a patient he knows nothing about and there's something wrong with her that makes that particularly concerning. So, I guess some doctors will be more candid lol.
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I would never expect a surgeon to hold back his words and true feelings. But this is very specialty-dependent. Not to mention, you're a premed that is shadowing, not a medical student that is rotating that he would evaluate.
 
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[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]
Yesterday I had an informal HS reunion. Everyone had a job. Someone recently got back from a year teaching English in China and moved to San Fran. Another is about to travel to South America for a year after saving up. Someone else moved to Santa Monica and is studying history. Another gets to travel across the US as part of his job. People are just moving on with their lives.

There's so many things I'm interested in and love that I just won't be able to do. I know I'm in a good position, whatever that means, but damn this whole med school thing really does eat up your 20s.

Good on you OP for deciding medicine isn't for you. [/COLOR]
 
Yesterday I had an informal HS reunion. Everyone had a job. Someone recently got back from a year teaching English in China and moved to San Fran. Another is about to travel to South America for a year after saving up. Someone else moved to Santa Monica and is studying history. Another gets to travel across the US as part of his job. People are just moving on with their lives.

There's so many things I'm interested in and love that I just won't be able to do. I know I'm in a good position, whatever that means, but damn this whole med school thing really does eat up your 20s.

Good on you OP for deciding medicine isn't for you.
 
Yesterday I had an informal HS reunion. Everyone had a job. Someone recently got back from a year teaching English in China and moved to San Fran. Another is about to travel to South America for a year after saving up. Someone else moved to Santa Monica and is studying history. Another gets to travel across the US as part of his job. People are just moving on with their lives.

There's so many things I'm interested in and love that I just won't be able to do. I know I'm in a good position, whatever that means, but damn this whole med school thing really does eat up your 20s.

Good on you OP for deciding medicine isn't for you.
 
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saveourpens said:
Yesterday I had an informal HS reunion. Everyone had a job. Someone recently got back from a year teaching English in China and moved to San Fran. Another is about to travel to South America for a year after saving up. Someone else moved to Santa Monica and is studying history. Another gets to travel across the US as part of his job. People are just moving on with their lives.

There's so many things I'm interested in and love that I just won't be able to do. I know I'm in a good position, whatever that means, but damn this whole med school thing really does eat up your 20s.

Good on you OP for deciding medicine isn't for you.
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Let us know how well they are doing financially after 15+ years...
 
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Rustie said:
This is the kind of "reassurance" that I mentioned early on in my OP.

You're right: Every high-paying job is going to be stressful. But what you aren't mentioning is the fact that doctors have long hours and incredible debt to accompany that stress. While a finance major may be stressed about his work, he's not going to be working the horrible hours of a resident and some other doctors. He's (probably) not going to have the debt of a doctor.

I get it, you want to feel like medicine is worth it and that other people are going to have it just as hard as you. But they won't. Your false reassurance is only going to cause for regret years down the road.
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Many IB analysts work far worse hours than residents (like 100+ hours).
 
nm825 said:
Many IB analysts work far worse hours than residents (like 100+ hours).
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IB is short term. you either get out or get promoted. you also make a ton working those hours. medicine is high work volume for decade. depending on which residency you do, you can be working IB hrs.
 
Gregor Wiesmann said:
I hope you aren't surprised to find out that there are quicker jobs to make money in than Medicine. If that's what appeals to you, then go for it I guess.......I've just never known another 18 year old who aspired to be an Actuary. I guess I had some thoughts comparable to yours awhile ago, but then I realized that if I'm going to spend 30+ years in a career, it better be something interesting. There are plenty of jobs out there that pay the bills, but quite frankly, I think they are boring. Oh, and Medicine seems a little bit better if you just consider your Residency to be your first job.......50k a year, which is kind of like what most college graduates make anyways.
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You also dont hear a lot of 18 yr old say they wanna stare at ppls teeth all day for their career.. but dentists make a TON. I think the issue is college students are too uninformed. THey find it and its either too late, or they've wasted years already
 
If you go into medicine for the sole purpose of making money then you will be disappointed and you will likely be a bad doctor. If the goal of being a doctor is what will make you happy, then you have also set yourself up for failure. The key in life is to find what makes you happy and build your career around that.
 
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I can certainly empathize with both the OP's statement and the many many oppositions to it in this thread. But, OP, seriously, what did you think was going to happen when you posted such a statement in a pre-medical forum? It's great that you decided not to pursue a field that you were no longer passionate about, but you posted a huge statement that was mainly about the negatives of a medical career in a forum made of people pursuing and/or in the middle of one. Talk about ruffling feathers! My first thought was, "Why did you even take the time to do this? Just move on with your life." I also have to agree with everyone else's opinion on opening with, "I chuckle as I begin writing this post..." What are you chuckling about? It makes you sound like you think it's hilarious that we are all dumb enough to continue down such a path. Please keep your chuckles to yourself, especially when it comes to something that we are all trying to do with the rest of our lives.
 
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Condensed version of this post:

I wanted money ever since I was a little child and I saw doctors with money. Money from doctors isnt the fastest money but actuary money is without the negative money. Something about kids and time and money. Lots of words.

Also I am 18 years money
 
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Gregor Wiesmann said:
then I realized that if I'm going to spend 30+ years in a career, it better be something interesting. There are plenty of jobs out there that pay the bills, but quite frankly, I think they are boring.
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This, for sure. Coming from a top 5 undergrad I often question my decision not to pursue the lucrative consulting/IBanking gigs where many of my friends will be making six figures out of college. Then I realized that I could spend my life crunching numbers at a desk, doing some bull**** handwavey "consulting" amorphous business job, or learning how the human body works and using that expertise to help people. Decision made.
 
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Compared to the rest of the (civilized) world, US physicians are very well off.
 
litotes said:
This, for sure. Coming from a top 5 undergrad I often question my decision not to pursue the lucrative consulting/IBanking gigs where many of my friends will be making six figures out of college. Then I realized that I could spend my life crunching numbers at a desk, doing some bull**** handwavey "consulting" amorphous business job, or learning how the human body works and using that expertise to help people. Decision made.
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Whether you like it or not, the crunching numbers at a desk, doing some bull**** handwavey "consulting" amorphous business job infiltrates hospitals and hospital culture (i.e. you as a doctor) as well. You can't avoid that and think that only "learning how the body works and using that expertise to help people" will be your only job as a physician employed by a hospital. I like how you think that somehow bc you're a physician you're somehow completely exempt from the "life crunching numbers at a desk, doing some bull**** handwavey 'consulting' amorphous business". You realize hospitals are corporations, don't you? You're proving OP's point for him.

Edit: It will only get worse, when by the time you are practicing and healthcare reform is in full effect, you will be expected to take cost into account, when deciding what treatment to give to your patient.
 
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W19 said:
I believe @allenlchs was just stating a fact...
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I was just trying to say that physicians in civilized parts of the world work just as hard but unlike them US physicians are very well compensated at the end of the day and people should just stop complaining about everything. Most degrees do not even guarantee any professional outcomes anymore but medicine still leads to a comfortable lifestyle here in the US.
 
allenlchs said:
I was just trying to say that physicians in civilized parts of the world work just as hard but unlike them US physicians are very well compensated at the end of the day and people should just stop complaining about everything. Most degrees do not even guarantee any professional outcomes anymore but medicine still leads to a comfortable lifestyle here in the US.
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And you would be wrong. I'm not surprised, as a premed you seem to have all the answers, however. Doctors, esp. those in more socialized healthcare systems, have a set number of hours, are unionized, etc. They don't even work even close to the number of hours that doctors in the United States do, and their level of debt is almost nothing compared to your USMG. But please, tell me more.
 
DermViser said:
And you would be wrong. I'm not surprised, as a premed you seem to have all the answers, however. Doctors, esp. those in more socialized healthcare systems, have a set number of hours, are unionized, etc. They don't even work even close to the number of hours that doctors in the United States do, and their level of debt is almost nothing compared to your USMG. But please, tell me more.
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I'm not going to argue against your bogus claims. I'm originally from a country in Eastern Europe and while it varies greatly from country to country the compensation of physicians there is compatible to that of teachers or bankers; they are certainly not on the top of the earning bracket like US physicians. My relative who is a surgeon works just as many hours as US surgeons do in an understaffed and underequipped hospital without having the luxury to refer many cases to super specialized surgeons, the way it would be done here.
 
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allenlchs said:
I'm not going to argue against your bogus claims. I'm originally from a country in Eastern Europe and while it varies greatly from country to country the compensation of physicians there is compatible to that of teachers or bankers; they are certainly not on the top of the earning bracket like US physicians. My relative who is a surgeon works just as many hours as US surgeons do in an understaffed and underequipped hospital without having the luxury to refer many cases to super specialized surgeons, the way it would be done here.
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My claims aren't bogus just bc you'd rather than go by anecdote, I would much rather go by data.
Exhibit A:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...ctive-to-get-sufficient-training-9620474.html

So that's one of your points struck down, would you like me to strike the other one down as well?
 
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DermViser said:
My claims aren't bogus just bc you'd rather than go by anecdote, I would much rather go by data.
Exhibit A:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...ctive-to-get-sufficient-training-9620474.html

So that's one of your points struck down, would you like me to strike the other one down as well?
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dgiibc.jpg

http://forexword-s.blogspot.com/2011/02/what-salaries-are-paid-to-doctors-in.html

Some US physicians could very well work less hours and take a pay cut for it. I don't think US salaries would be feasible if doctors here worked 48 hours described in the article (which btw states that many still voluntarily work overtime). I maintain that American physicians are better off financially that their counterparts elsewhere, with maybe very few exceptions.
 
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allenlchs said:
dgiibc.jpg

http://forexword-s.blogspot.com/2011/02/what-salaries-are-paid-to-doctors-in.html

Some US physicians could very well work less hours and take a pay cut for it. I don't think US salaries would be feasible if doctors here worked 48 hours described in the article (which btw states that many still voluntarily work overtime). I maintain that American physicians are better off financially that their counterparts elsewhere, with maybe very few exceptions.
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You gave an anecdote of one surgeon working as many hours as American surgeons, while that's not the case for the majority if you look at the data. The amount of total money paid is irrelevant, bc subtracting from that amount is the opportunity cost, as well as student debt with compounding interest, in which borrowers have to make payments monthly, unlike their counterparts in Europe, whose student tuition is almost fully subsidized by the state.

Try to use something other than blogs as sources.
 
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DermViser said:
You gave an anecdote of one surgeon working as many hours as American surgeons, while that's not the case for the majority if you look at the data. The amount of total money paid is irrelevant, bc subtracting from that amount is the opportunity cost, as well as student debt with compounding interest, in which borrowers have to make payments monthly, unlike their counterparts in Europe, whose student tuition is almost fully subsidized by the state.

Try to use something other than blogs as sources.
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wmfrt2.jpg

http://www.human-resources-health.com/content/11/1/11

It is true that the cost of medical education in the US is rising, but this has not always been the case. Physicians who are now retiring were never in astronomical debt.
And as this next article states, "Older physicians are retiring today with around $3M to $8M, with just a few above that", while I am absolutely certain that European doctors retiring with $1M are few and far between.

http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/investment_manager.html
 
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allenlchs said:
wmfrt2.jpg

http://www.human-resources-health.com/content/11/1/11

It is true that the cost of medical education in the US is rising, but this has not always been the case. Physicians who are now retiring were never in astronomical debt.
And as this next article states, "Older physicians are retiring today with around $3M to $8M, with just a few above that", while I am absolutely certain that European doctors retiring with $1M are few and far between.

http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/investment_manager.html
Click to expand...
I learned in my personal finance class that everyone should try to reach retirement with $3-5 million saved up. But $8 mil is a lot. Looks like my new goal is to retire with more than that LOLZ.
 
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Dr Van Helsing said:
There was a video game on Playstation 1 called Tale Concerto; the characters look similar to your avatar. Reminds me of being a kid again.
Click to expand...
Holy ****, I'm not the only one who played this. :p

I honestly don't have a problem with the OP - at least he or she seems more self-aware than most 18-year-old pre-meds.
 
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I congratulate you on taking the red pill...but you can rest assured that you will never convince the majority of premeds that something wonderful doesn't lie on the other side of a gate labeled "Arbeit Macht Frei."
 
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allenlchs said:
I'm not going to argue against your bogus claims. I'm originally from a country in Eastern Europe and while it varies greatly from country to country the compensation of physicians there is compatible to that of teachers or bankers; they are certainly not on the top of the earning bracket like US physicians. My relative who is a surgeon works just as many hours as US surgeons do in an understaffed and underequipped hospital without having the luxury to refer many cases to super specialized surgeons, the way it would be done here.
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You are probably not familiar with @DermViser; he likes to argue for the sake of arguing... I know exactly what you are saying since I lived in two other countries before immigrating to the US.
 
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allenlchs said:
Compared to the rest of the (civilized) world, US physicians are very well off.
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Compared to the rest of the (entire) world, US welfare recipients are very well off.

Relative comparisons lack absolute meaning and are thus kind of pointless as blanket statements.
 
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