Why MD, not DO?

[Niran12]

It's all about PRESTIGE. People would like to be called MD instead of DO.

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[DeterminedDoc]

Eh MD > DO ultimately. If you truly want to go DO, good for you. For some, becoming an MD isn't going to happen simply because they aren't good enough to be one. So DO away (woohoo).

 

[Dharma]

Of course I'm a narcissistic douche because I don't agree with you and because I think something is subpar. You made a choice and that's fine but the rest of us have a right to criticize it and not like it. If it works for you, so be it but it doesn't mean the whole world has to think it's fantastic.

Yeah, this guy is definitely a douche. Sorry dude. It's obvious.

As for the rest of the thread (or some of it at least) there are some good points being made. That said, ya'll beating the dead horse. It's pretty much common knowledge that the M.D. will make things relatively easier for a med school grad. We all know this already!

And Athina is def a DB.

 

[Dharma]

Eh MD > DO ultimately. If you truly want to go DO, good for you. For some, becoming an MD isn't going to happen simply because they aren't good enough to be one. So DO away (woohoo).

hey, you can be an MD DB. You've already earned the DB.

 

[Dharma]

You know who else is really good with back pain? Chiropractors.

Your style is played out.

 

[Dharma]

aren't you special

another cheap shot artist.

 

[hmainn]

It ultimately comes down to preference.

I'm a car guy so I've heard people bicker about whether the WRX is better or the Lancer.
Both have their pros and cons, it's a matter of preference (perspective) that will magnify or shrink each pro and con, and give a different result as to which is better.

We can argue facts, but those facts mean nothing if we don't have an opinion about what they mean.

If people say going DO is more challenging in terms of entering into a residency.. some people like challenges.
If people say going MD is a more prestigious route.. some people like prestige.

To each his/her own.

 

[FattySlug]

It ultimately comes down to preference.

I'm a car guy so I've heard people bicker about whether the WRX is better or the Lancer.
Both have their pros and cons, it's a matter of preference (perspective) that will magnify or shrink each pro and con, and give a different result as to which is better.

We can argue facts, but those facts mean nothing if we don't have an opinion about what they mean.

If people say going DO is more challenging in terms of entering into a residency.. some people like challenges.
If people say going MD is a more prestigious route.. some people like prestige.

To each his/her own.

The analogy does not work. In this case one side is clearly the better option, not in terms of education but tuition and opportunities.

Edit: Are you serious about saying that people entering DO for the challenges? That sounds flat out idiotic. I doubt you will find any DO medical students that would tell you they got in DO because it is harder to match.

 

[willen101383]

It ultimately comes down to preference.

I'm a car guy so I've heard people bicker about whether the WRX is better or the Lancer.
Both have their pros and cons, it's a matter of preference (perspective) that will magnify or shrink each pro and con, and give a different result as to which is better.

We can argue facts, but those facts mean nothing if we don't have an opinion about what they mean.

If people say going DO is more challenging in terms of entering into a residency.. some people like challenges.
If people say going MD is a more prestigious route.. some people like prestige.

To each his/her own.

WRX>Lancer all day

 

[El Dooderino]

It ultimately comes down to preference.

I'm a car guy so I've heard people bicker about whether the WRX is better or the Lancer.
Both have their pros and cons, it's a matter of preference (perspective) that will magnify or shrink each pro and con, and give a different result as to which is better.

We can argue facts, but those facts mean nothing if we don't have an opinion about what they mean.

If people say going DO is more challenging in terms of entering into a residency.. some people like challenges.
If people say going MD is a more prestigious route.. some people like prestige.

To each his/her own.

Liking challenges doesn't mean you cut off one leg before a marathon

 

[235009]

If people say going DO is more challenging in terms of entering into a residency.. some people like challenges.

Liking challenges doesn't mean you cut off one leg before a marathon

 

[hmainn]

The analogy does not work. In this case one side is clearly the better option, not in terms of education but tuition and opportunities.

Edit: Are you serious about saying that people entering DO for the challenges? That sounds flat out idiotic. I doubt you will find any DO medical students that would tell you they got in DO because it is harder to match.

Haha.. I knew people would find something to continue to argue about. Screw the analogy then, and also my comment about DO's and challenges. That was bad, I have to admit it in hindsight. But you know that there is some validity to my statement, right?
Some people really do see the benefits of OMM and are willing to go DO even though it will pose other challenges.

Are those challenges worth learning OMM over?
It comes down to personal preference.

Thanks for implying that I'm an idiot. I really am. I still have a lot to learn and hope to mature as I continue on this path of healthcare.

 

[hmainn]

WRX>Lancer all day

That can be argued.. haha. Although I do prefer Subaru's. Check out the BRZ if you already haven't. Toyota and Sub for the win

 

[488677]

this thread is hilarious.

i'm really surprised no one has cited the US top medical school rankings yet.

 

[ScutmonkeyNJ]

MD is a more internationally recognized title than DO.

 

[follicle]

I've only met a few DOs, but every one that I've met has written their name as Dr. So and So instead of So and So, DO. I know someone mentioned this earlier. I thought it was interesting.

 

[tkim]

MD is a more internationally recognized title than DO.

In what way?

 

[ScutmonkeyNJ]

In what way?

People from different countries around the world recognize right away that someone is a doctor if they see "MD" at the end of his name; thus, it will be easier for MD doctors to get hired and work abroad. DO isn't as well known outside of the USA, so their international practice is somewhat limited compared to that of MD docs.

 

[kpcrew]

In what way?

My family doctor is a DO and my parents didn't even know what that was until I told them.

 

[A Nony Mouse]

Again, this doesnt account for DO students leaving the MD match for the DO match.

If you enter BOTH matches (the DO match occurs first), and you match DO you are automatically withdrawn from the MD match.

Trust me, there arent 30% of all graduating DOs walking around matchless each year.

Sorry for calling you out, (and I am by no means a huge DO route supporter), but it is important that people check their facts. Of all the misconceptions out there involving DOs most are not true, and are just things premeds continue to pass down because of "i read somewhere" or "i heard from someone," without checking the facts.

Thank you- I've been wondering why the data was inconsistent with the stats I was hearing... I just thought it must be due to the new schools before. This helps a lot!

 

[tkim]

People from different countries around the world recognize right away that someone is a doctor if they see "MD" at the end of his name; thus, it will be easier for MD doctors to get hired and work abroad.

I'm curious what percentage of US people who train in the US actually relocate to practice abroad. Sounds like a vanishingly small number. Do you know?

DO isn't as well known outside of the USA, so their international practice is somewhat limited compared to that of MD docs.

I know exactly how many countries recognize US DO practice rights. Do you know how many countries recognize the US MD?

 

[SpecterGT260]

In what way?

while thread revivals are always a bad thing.... as a DO attending you should be aware of the limitations to your practice outside the USA

meanwhile I am not aware of a country that doesn't recognize the schooling of a US MD. that is not to say that one wouldnt have to perform certain certifications or potentially redo residency, but in many countries nothing short of repeating medical school at an MD or MBBS school will allow you to practice medicine.

 

[SpecterGT260]

and if you want to split hairs about it, technically speaking I can walk in to many central american countries and mexico (I think including mexico....) and perform medicine on my own (legally) in a rural setting as an MD medical student - only one of these countries recognizes the DO degree. Or at least this is what was explained to me while in honduras by one of their doctors. That isnt to weigh in at all about the relative quality of the educations - just that yes, the MD degree does have a greater level of international recognition and denying this is a little silly.

 

[eeyoreish]

Look obviously if you have an option go MD over DO. If you don't, who cares if you have to burn 400 hours of time (or whatever it is) playing lightning bone setter and taking the COMLEX at the end of the day you'll still have a successful career.

Also I looked through that thread with the match lists for DO schools for fun over the summer and from what I remember PCOM has a terrible match list. There are much better schools. The top half of the class at AZCOM looks like any low-tier MD school. They match crap like MD integrated vascular, radiation oncology, and optho.

Western and TCOM also looked good. The southwest, Michigan and Ohio seem to be the money spots for DO schools.

 

[qwerty2012]

lets stop beating the same topic. Both MD/DO pathways lead to physicians. Not many people want to do academic medicine at ultra-selective institutions.

 

[tkim]

while thread revivals are always a bad thing.... as a DO attending you should be aware of the limitations to your practice outside the USA

As the former mod who created the SDN international practice rights FAQ, I am *fully* aware of the international practice rights of the USDO.

What has never been offered is a list of which countries recognized the US MD degree for reciprocity. Everyone assumes that it is either universally recognized or that it's orders of magnitude higher than DO. Perhaps it is - I've never seen any comprehensive list, and I've asked many times, so all there is is speculation, but no data.

meanwhile I am not aware of a country that doesn't recognize the schooling of a US MD.

Try Singapore: It does not recognize 100 of the 138 US MD medical schools as qualified for reciprocity:

http://www.healthprofessionals.gov.... Registrable Basic Medical Qualifications.pdf

Don't feel bad, there are no DO schools on the list. But now you are aware of a first world country that does not recongize nearly three-quarters of the US MD schools as equivalent. There you go.

that is not to say that one wouldnt have to perform certain certifications or potentially redo residency, but in many countries nothing short of repeating medical school at an MD or MBBS school will allow you to practice medicine.

If your school isn't on that list, you cannot practice in Singapore. Period.

Of course, the point, and many people miss the point, is that nearly everyone who trains in the US practices in the US, and training in the US to work in another country is stupid. This supposed advantage that US MD schooling has over DO school is insignificant and not well explored yet amplified as some major benefit over it. That's a crock of ****.

 

[SpecterGT260]

As the former mod who created the SDN international practice rights FAQ, I am *fully* aware of the international practice rights of the USDO.

What has never been offered is a list of which countries recognized the US MD degree for reciprocity. Everyone assumes that it is either universally recognized or that it's orders of magnitude higher than DO. Perhaps it is - I've never seen any comprehensive list, and I've asked many times, so all there is is speculation, but no data.



Try Singapore: It does not recognize 100 of the 138 US MD medical schools as qualified for reciprocity:

http://www.healthprofessionals.gov.... Registrable Basic Medical Qualifications.pdf

Don't feel bad, there are no DO schools on the list. But now you are aware of a first world country that does not recongize nearly three-quarters of the US MD schools as equivalent. There you go.



If your school isn't on that list, you cannot practice in Singapore. Period.

Of course, the point, and many people miss the point, is that nearly everyone who trains in the US practices in the US, and training in the US to work in another country is stupid. This supposed advantage that US MD schooling has over DO school is insignificant and not well explored yet amplified as some major benefit over it. That's a crock of ****.

actually, the point was that you called out another poster for saying that MD did not have a larger international understanding than DO when it very clearly does because apparently you can muster up 1 place that doesn't acknowledge every US MD school. I agree that ability to practice elsewhere is largely irrelevant, but that doesnt negate the fact. Dislike it or discount it all you want (I know I sure will), but if you pretend it isnt there you become very transparent

My school is on that list. I honestly don't give a crap because, as you mentioned, I, like most people, have no interest in practicing overseas, let alone singapore.... but still - irrelevance and validity are two difference concepts.

 

[tkim]

and if you want to split hairs about it, technically speaking I can walk in to many central american countries and mexico (I think including mexico....) and perform medicine on my own (legally) in a rural setting as an MD medical student - only one of these countries recognizes the DO degree. Or at least this is what was explained to me while in honduras by one of their doctors.

Ah, anecdotes, how cool. You're in med school now, son, so a little verifiable data would be appreciated, thanks.

That isnt to weigh in at all about the relative quality of the educations - just that yes, the MD degree does have a greater level of international recognition and denying this is a little silly.

Point out where I denied *anything* of the sort. Thanks.

 

[tkim]

actually, the point was that you called out another poster for saying that MD did not have a larger international understanding than DO

Can you show me where I said that? Perhaps quote some text?

 

[tkim]

because apparently you can muster up 1 place that doesn't acknowledge every US MD school. I agree that ability to practice elsewhere is largely irrelevant, but that doesnt negate the fact. Dislike it or discount it all you want (I know I sure will), but if you pretend it isnt there you become very transparent

As you wrote - you couldn't recall one country. Now you can. HTH.

 

[SpecterGT260]

As you wrote - you couldn't recall one country. Now you can. HTH.

my ability to list countries is as irrelevant to the point as the point was to the significance of the degrees

As I said, we can call it insignificant and brush it under the rug - I am perfectly willing to do that because I agree that it is meaningless. However it is existent so... you know... your objection to the pre-med was a little unfounded.

 

[tkim]

my ability to list countries is as irrelevant to the point as the point was to the significance of the degrees

But the belief that your INability to list countries or that even the need list them was irrelevant is the crux of the matter.

You see, every premed waves this superiority of the degree for international practice as some super positive, when it's really pretty useless when you get down to the reciprocity requirements, sometimes supervision for a period of years, and lack of employment opportunities, only the most motivated person who has concrete plans to relocate abroad would consider it.

It's a sham advantage. There are no jobs abroad, or if there are, the requirements are vast and the pay is vastly inferior. Medical missions usually have reciprocity requirements waived for the length of mission so that's moot.

But every single time this supposed advantage is pulled out as some ultra cool thing, no one recognizes it as what it is - crap.

As I said, we can call it insignificant and brush it under the rug - I am perfectly willing to do that because I agree that it is meaningless. However it is existent so... you know... your objection to the pre-med was a little unfounded.

Once again, and I'll repeat it for the cheap seats - I didn't object, I asked for data. I'm the only one providing any in this thread.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Try Singapore: It does not recognize 100 of the 138 US MD medical schools as qualified for reciprocity:

http://www.healthprofessionals.gov.... Registrable Basic Medical Qualifications.pdf


If your school isn't on that list, you cannot practice in Singapore. Period.

Of course, the point, and many people miss the point, is that nearly everyone who trains in the US practices in the US, and training in the US to work in another country is stupid. This supposed advantage that US MD schooling has over DO school is insignificant and not well explored yet amplified as some major benefit over it. That's a crock of ****.

My school is on there! wut up singapore? imma be seein' your patients!

But really, how did they come to that list, haha?

 

[Bacchus]

It doesn't matter if you can't practice outside the US. You won't be, more than likely (as in 99% of graduates). If you want to do aid work, DWB accepts both degrees regardless of international practice status.

The point holds no water for the overwhelming majority of matriculants who will be practicing in the USA.

 

[tkim]

My school is on there! wut up singapore? imma be seein' your patients!

But really, how did they come to that list, haha?

Most likely they started with well-known schools - Harvard 'natch, then as the individual schools applied for whatever reason they were approved and placed on the list.

But here's the telling thing about that list - there's on hundred US med schools that haven't bothered to apply. Do you know why?

Because there isn't a stampede of US graduates looking to work in Singapore. Take that and apply it to every other foreign country with a different language, customs, practice of medicine, level of pay, job availability, and you'll see exactly why no one is clamoring to practice medicine in a foreign country.

 

[SpecterGT260]

But the belief that your INability to list countries or that even the need list them was irrelevant is the crux of the matter.

You see, every premed waves this superiority of the degree for international practice as some super positive, when it's really pretty useless when you get down to the reciprocity requirements, sometimes supervision for a period of years, and lack of employment opportunities, only the most motivated person who has concrete plans to relocate abroad would consider it.

It's a sham advantage. There are no jobs abroad, or if there are, the requirements are vast and the pay is vastly inferior. Medical missions usually have reciprocity requirements waived for the length of mission so that's moot.

But every single time this supposed advantage is pulled out as some ultra cool thing, no one recognizes it as what it is - crap.



Once again, and I'll repeat it for the cheap seats - I didn't object, I asked for data. I'm the only one providing any in this thread.

I am not arguing about the validity of the advantage. My inability to list a country became your adopted crux once you realized you had been called out for razzing a pre med over nonsense. When I said I was not aware of any it was to demonstrate that MD is more widely accepted (which it is, and which we agree is not any real advantage). And I provided data. If I were to be as nitpicky (and half as smug) I could point out that I listed dozens more countries than you did . I have to believe you are just being difficult now but if this really is confusing you (I.e. if you are having true difficulty tracking the contexts behind the responses) to where you really think listing Singapore is a valid counterpoint I would be happy to re quote and lead you through this thread in the morning

 

[SpecterGT260]

Do you realize that your insistence on this Singapore thing is a straw man? Either that or crazy self babble.... my point did not hinge upon the complete absence of countries that didn't recognize the USMD. Technically you proved my(or that pre meds) point- which was that the USMD has more international recognition.

 

[tkim]

I am not arguing about the validity of the advantage. My inability to list a country became your adopted crux once you realized you had been called out for razzing a pre med over nonsense. When I said I was not aware of any it was to demonstrate that MD is more widely accepted (which it is, and which we agree is not any real advantage). And I provided data. If I were to be as nitpicky (and half as smug) I could point out that I listed dozens more countries than you did . I have to believe you are just being difficult now but if this really is confusing you (I.e. if you are having true difficulty tracking the contexts behind the responses) to where you really think listing Singapore is a valid counterpoint I would be happy to re quote and lead you through this thread in the morning

A simple start would be providing quotes for any of the things you've accused me of doing. See above posts if you've forgotten. I've asked, and have yet to see.

 

[SpecterGT260]

A simple start would be providing quotes for any of the things you've accused me of doing. See above posts if you've forgotten. I've asked, and have yet to see.

And what is it exactly that you want? All I've accused you of is being nitpicky, smug, and for debating a point using technicalities and irrelevancies. You want a complete list of countries that recognize the degree? I was having difficulty finding any that didnt.... but what is the angle here? Your conclusion is that the two are equal in this regard until you are proven wrong? Fine here's your list. Everybody except singapore

 

[SpecterGT260]

I still trust you know very well my meanings but are just clinging to technicalities in my language. Even if you didn't do something as "extreme" as "razzing" the pre med you were still plainly objecting to a point that was made which has been reasonably demonstrated to be a true statement
But honestly either you are just amusing yourself by picking technicalities or... I dunno.... drunk on cheap Scotch to the point that you can't see how irrelevant these counterpoints are. Either way I'm not engaging it any further tonight.

 

[tkim]

Ah, anecdotes, how cool. You're in med school now, son, so a little verifiable data would be appreciated, thanks.

Point out where I denied *anything* of the sort. Thanks.

Can you show me where I said that? Perhaps quote some text?

and if you want to split hairs about it, technically speaking I can walk in to many central american countries and mexico (I think including mexico....) and perform medicine on my own (legally) in a rural setting as an MD medical student - only one of these countries recognizes the DO degree. Or at least this is what was explained to me while in honduras by one of their doctors. That isnt to weigh in at all about the relative quality of the educations - just that yes, the MD degree does have a greater level of international recognition and denying this is a little silly.

And what is it exactly that you want? All I've accused you of is being nitpicky, smug, and for debating a point using technicalities and irrelevancies. You want a complete list of countries that recognize the degree? I was having difficulty finding any that didnt.... but what is the angle here? Your conclusion is that the two are equal in this regard until you are proven wrong? Fine here's your list. Everybody except singapore

Here you go.

 

[tkim]

I still trust you know very well my meanings but are just clinging to technicalities in my language. Even if you didn't do something as "extreme" as "razzing" the pre med you were still plainly objecting to a point that was made which has been reasonably demonstrated to be a true statement
But honestly either you are just amusing yourself by picking technicalities or... I dunno.... drunk on cheap Scotch to the point that you can't see how irrelevant these counterpoints are. Either way I'm not engaging it any further tonight.

I accept this as an admission of defeat. Thanks.

And my scotch is not cheap.

 

[911 Turbo]

I don't want to go DO because I heard that they can't prescribe narcotics or perform surgery of any kind (thank god)

 

[tn4596]

I don't want to go DO because I heard that they can't prescribe narcotics or perform surgery of any kind (thank god)

Joking?
Anyway, isn't it harder to get into competitive specialty and residency as a DO. This should be a good reason why most prefer MD degree. Oh, and the OMM thing.

Edit: bleh, this was alrdy stated in the thread. Tl;dr

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SpecterGT260]

I accept this as an admission of defeat. Thanks.

And my scotch is not cheap.

wow.... id be pretty embarrassed if I had to argue such technicalities to win such a ridiculous point.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I don't want to go DO because I heard that they can't prescribe narcotics or perform surgery of any kind (thank god)

you heard wrong....

 

[SpecterGT260]

So, if we want to go through this:

it starts here with an accurate yet largely irrelevant post by a pre-med

MD is a more internationally recognized title than DO.

to which we get:

In what way?

So here's the deal... the point above is obvious and I am nearly certain that you understand it to be true as well. Sure, there is a subjective side to the interpretation here, but what I heard was someone say "Asian men have small willies" and then a chinese guy stood up and said "uh..... how do ya figure!?" (poor example because the MD/DO international thing is a little more readily verified )

so we got some hard data (holy crap thats what you wanted!) Sure, it isnt the whole picture - I was unable to find a list of countries for MD. Peronally I feel like that speaks volumes when the AOA and a few other key osteopathic sites go out of their way to list those that do.... it isnt like you see walmart advertising "Now with handicap parking!" Some things that are largely assumed are easily left unsaid Those that arent are advertised so my (admittedly partial) data below:

while thread revivals are always a bad thing.... as a DO attending you should be aware of the limitations to your practice outside the USA

meanwhile I am not aware of a country that doesn't recognize the schooling of a US MD. that is not to say that one wouldnt have to perform certain certifications or potentially redo residency, but in many countries nothing short of repeating medical school at an MD or MBBS school will allow you to practice medicine.

and if you want to split hairs about it, technically speaking I can walk in to many central american countries and mexico (I think including mexico....) and perform medicine on my own (legally) in a rural setting as an MD medical student - only one of these countries recognizes the DO degree. Or at least this is what was explained to me while in honduras by one of their doctors. That isnt to weigh in at all about the relative quality of the educations - just that yes, the MD degree does have a greater level of international recognition and denying this is a little silly.

So here is the fun part - when constructing an argument - there is no problem whatsoever with using anecdote as long as the argument is not dependent upon them. This is debate 101. Illustrations are key (especially when talking to people with fixed positions or decreased ability to follow... not throwing accusations here.... but still, that is when they are good).

So instead of a sound rebuttal to the post, you capitolize on my use of an anecdote (which was perfectly acceptable within the context of the overall argument) and the supplementary observation that I was unable to find any evidence of a country that US MDs are not recognized. - and to be, again, equally nitpicky as you - singapore does recognize US MDs. Not all of them, but it does recognize them.

As the former mod who created the SDN international practice rights FAQ, I am *fully* aware of the international practice rights of the USDO.

What has never been offered is a list of which countries recognized the US MD degree for reciprocity. Everyone assumes that it is either universally recognized or that it's orders of magnitude higher than DO. Perhaps it is - I've never seen any comprehensive list, and I've asked many times, so all there is is speculation, but no data.



Try Singapore: It does not recognize 100 of the 138 US MD medical schools as qualified for reciprocity:

http://www.healthprofessionals.gov.... Registrable Basic Medical Qualifications.pdf

Don't feel bad, there are no DO schools on the list. But now you are aware of a first world country that does not recongize nearly three-quarters of the US MD schools as equivalent. There you go.



If your school isn't on that list, you cannot practice in Singapore. Period.

Of course, the point, and many people miss the point, is that nearly everyone who trains in the US practices in the US, and training in the US to work in another country is stupid. This supposed advantage that US MD schooling has over DO school is insignificant and not well explored yet amplified as some major benefit over it. That's a crock of ****.

So you seem to suggest that because no list has been provided that it is logical and rational to assume equality in international practice between the two degrees - this is not a valid assumption
You also suggest that my argument which stated "I am not aware of places where US MDs are not accepted" was somehow dependent upon the accuracy of this claim - also not a valid assumption. Until you find, oh.... somewhere in the neighborhood of "the world - 50 states" the point stands - and the observation was completely true because it did not speak to the state of the world but to my own experience - again something that is perfectly valid when assessing all the information available at the time.

Ah, anecdotes, how cool. You're in med school now, son, so a little verifiable data would be appreciated, thanks.



Point out where I denied *anything* of the sort. Thanks.

gotta love that plausible deniability argument.... If you did not deny anything, the only possible explanation for your post was that you were truly unaware of the practice rights differences. But you explain above that you were a former mod of international funness so you know all of it. You don't have to explicitly say the words, file your TPS reports with the appropriate cover sheet, and seal it in blood for the message to be understood From my perspective, you didnt like the idea of someone drawing a difference between MD and DO and objected, where the valid objection lies more in the irrelevance in what some dude in spain thinks about our degrees as neither of us are likely to ever practice there.

It doesn't matter if you can't practice outside the US. You won't be, more than likely (as in 99% of graduates). If you want to do aid work, DWB accepts both degrees regardless of international practice status.

The point holds no water for the overwhelming majority of matriculants who will be practicing in the USA.

I agree (and I stated so a few times). The point wasnt that this difference means anything or that pre-meds should make their decision based on this. That would be a really really poor reason to do so. If "home field" prestige is already a poor reason to choose the degree, international prestige is worse.

 

[tkim]

blah blah blah

Lots of suppositions, assumptions, and incorrect interpretations of my posts.

All I've really asked for is some concrete reason why you, or anyone else, for that matter, has the belief that the US MD degree is internationally more accepted than the DO degree.

It's widely believed, but never back up with fact. There have been multiple threads in the past detailing how difficult or impossible it is to practice abroad, but those posts are routinely ignored.

Can't speak for the AOA as to why they started the international list, but interestingly, during their search they've found such oddities as Singapore, and discovered that most countries pose significant barriers to any foreigner practicing in their country, because of politics, language, or difference in practice.

The problem with your stance and the stance of many who believe in the US MD being more widely-accepted is that you believe it to be true, but don't feel the need to substantiate the belief, since it sounds so plainly true that it must be. That's the 'appeal to belief' fallacy, if you want to use the fancy terms.

When pressed for some proof or an example, you throw up the wiki map which outlines the *DO* reciprocity but not the MD, and the inference is that the DO international reciprocity is so small compared to the MD that they had to make a map of it in order to make something of it, and the MD map, if there were one, would cover some nebulous but larger area, but there's no need for an MD because everyone knows it would just bigger anyway. Appeal to belief.

Then you trot out some crap about a honduran doctor saying as a US MD student you could practice in *right now* in some of their countries, where fully licensed DO's can't. When pressed for some backup to this claim, I'm told I'm 'nitpicky' or getting 'technical'.

Pardon me, but when someone says that as a US med student they can practice medicine in a foreign country, I call bull**** and ask for proof. Haven't seen any offered up yet. Guess I'm being nitpicky.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Lots of suppositions, assumptions, and incorrect interpretations of my posts.

All I've really asked for is some concrete reason why you, or anyone else, for that matter, has the belief that the US MD degree is internationally more accepted than the DO degree.

It's widely believed, but never back up with fact. There have been multiple threads in the past detailing how difficult or impossible it is to practice abroad, but those posts are routinely ignored.

Can't speak for the AOA as to why they started the international list, but interestingly, during their search they've found such oddities as Singapore, and discovered that most countries pose significant barriers to any foreigner practicing in their country, because of politics, language, or difference in practice.

The problem with your stance and the stance of many who believe in the US MD being more widely-accepted is that you believe it to be true, but don't feel the need to substantiate the belief, since it sounds so plainly true that it must be. That's the 'appeal to belief' fallacy, if you want to use the fancy terms.

When pressed for some proof or an example, you throw up the wiki map which outlines the *DO* reciprocity but not the MD, and the inference is that the DO international reciprocity is so small compared to the MD that they had to make a map of it in order to make something of it, and the MD map, if there were one, would cover some nebulous but larger area, but there's no need for an MD because everyone knows it would just bigger anyway. Appeal to belief.

Then you trot out some crap about a honduran doctor saying as a US MD student you could practice in *right now* in some of their countries, where fully licensed DO's can't. When pressed for some backup to this claim, I'm told I'm 'nitpicky' or getting 'technical'.

Pardon me, but when someone says that as a US med student they can practice medicine in a foreign country, I call bull**** and ask for proof. Haven't seen any offered up yet. Guess I'm being nitpicky.

It must be interesting to be you

 

[seracus]

This thread is *****ic. Very few students know the distinction between DO/MD until they apply. Most students only apply to DO schools if they do not feel confident about their chances of being accepted at a school where they would earn an MD. DOs are less respected than MDs because, on average, the people who attend DO schools are less qualified (in terms of certain metrics, including gpa, MCAT, and ECs) than those who attend MD schools. Simple as that. The education may not be too different at a DO school as compared to an MD school, but the quality of students entering each type of school is significantly lopsided, and thus the connotation of a DO is tainted in the eyes of the medical and premedical community.

Sources for MCAT and GPA discrepancies by school type:
http://www.aacom.org/data/applicantsmatriculants/Documents/2011Matriculantsummary.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/161690/data/table17.pdf

Summary:
Allopathic averages (MCAT, GPA): 31.1 and 3.67
Osteopathic averages (MCAT, GPA): 26.51 and 3.50

Additionally, DO students are more likely to fail the USMLE Step 1 and 2 should they elect to take it.
Source: http://www.usmle.org/performance-data/default.aspx#2011_step-1.