The Under 3.0 Club part 02

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I'm very thankful for this thread bc it has given me insight and further motivation upon reaching my dreams. Now I will get straight into the point.

My stats:
sGPA: 2.8
oGPA: 3.02

DAT:
20AA, 19TS, 22 PAT but.....17 bio..
19QR, 19RC

I applied 3 times so far with no interviews and have taken the DAT 3x as well (I think the max number of times I can take it). The bio was really weird bc on my first test i got 21, and my second test 22, but the 3rd they changed up the way they asked the questions so it did catch me off guard.

I know my GPA is not good and my DAT is probably only avg but I need advice what to do next if I don't get in this cycle (since it's really late into the cycle anyway). I have about 55 hours of shadowing/assisting and and currently doing community service at church. I applied to the post-program at SFSU hoping to improve my GPA but I did apply late for that as well.

I'm a little burnt out after applying 3 cycles and taking the DAT 3x and am pretty de-sensitized from all those rejection letters. Fresh advice and what to do from here would be really helpful. Are there any other good post-bac programs you guys recommend? Should community services be more towards health oriented? rather than like church? I don't think I'm going to apply this upcoming cycle bc I feel that I need a major improvement even to be interviewed. Thanks in advance!

It seems like your only option now is master program. I consider my situation similar to yours. Here are my stats
cGPA: 3.36 (3.65 from a 4 year college and 3.12 from my B.A college)
sGPA: 3.37
DAT 20/21/21.
I applied to 10 schools first time this cycle and kinda late too around Dec. So far no responses, rejections from Loma, MWU. MWU however, offer me a master program that "gears" toward their dental school. I am still thinking about it. I have 1 year of dental assitance, and 1 year of hospital work. Volunteer is decent normal stuff.
Long story short, I heard pros and cons thing about other programs as well (beside MWU). Barry, UMDNJ. Nova and even Mississippi college. I am more on UMDNJ side now since they are relatively cheaper, and the course are more manageable. Really though, I think that we really need to do a master and kill that thing in 1 year before anyone can take a serious look at us. I mean with mediocre stats and stuff.
As for SFSU. I strongly believe that a master would look better. And somehow in the worst case, you would still end up with a master degree and it might help you land a better job, just my 2 cent !!!!
So yeah, do a master and keep your hope up. God bless!
 
I'm very thankful for this thread bc it has given me insight and further motivation upon reaching my dreams. Now I will get straight into the point.

My stats:
sGPA: 2.8
oGPA: 3.02

DAT:
20AA, 19TS, 22 PAT but.....17 bio..
19QR, 19RC

I applied 3 times so far with no interviews and have taken the DAT 3x as well (I think the max number of times I can take it). The bio was really weird bc on my first test i got 21, and my second test 22, but the 3rd they changed up the way they asked the questions so it did catch me off guard.

I know my GPA is not good and my DAT is probably only avg but I need advice what to do next if I don't get in this cycle (since it's really late into the cycle anyway). I have about 55 hours of shadowing/assisting and and currently doing community service at church. I applied to the post-program at SFSU hoping to improve my GPA but I did apply late for that as well.

I'm a little burnt out after applying 3 cycles and taking the DAT 3x and am pretty de-sensitized from all those rejection letters. Fresh advice and what to do from here would be really helpful. Are there any other good post-bac programs you guys recommend? Should community services be more towards health oriented? rather than like church? I don't think I'm going to apply this upcoming cycle bc I feel that I need a major improvement even to be interviewed. Thanks in advance!

Sounds a lot like my story. I had a sGPA of 2.97 and a oGPA of 3.16 and a 20 DAT and after 3 applications I was not accepted. I graduated with a biology and accounting degree. I decided to take the next year off from applying and attend a masters program after being out of school for a semester. I did a one year masters and got a 4.0, added shadowing and volunteer hours as well. I retook my DAT for the fourth time (they let you take it again, you just need permission and it is granted if you can show them a rejection letter) and got a 23. I reapplied for the fourth time and was finally accepted.

I think when you volunteer it doesn't have to be health related but they like it if you are helping underserved individuals. I have volunteered at a crisis center , Ronald McDonald House, and a community dental clinic for examples.

I went to Barry University and I thought it was a good program. It's in the Miami area, opportunity to volunteer at a community dental clinic (pretty much as often as you want), no thesis and most of your classmates are in the same situation so everyone seemed to help each other. I applied pretty late to the program and had no trouble getting in, but when I was leaving the class sizes where getting bigger so I'm not sure how early they fill the class. The other good thing about the program is that it also starts in the spring, there are one year, 18 month and two year options so it's a pretty flexible masters.

Good luck, if I can do it you can to, don't ever give up!
 
thanks for all the replies. I will have to start researching for masters in my area at least in my state somewhere. I would like to stay in CA if possible..Anyone know where to start looking? Maybe a website that shows a list of masters programs?
 
You can find a ton of information on this forum. Click on SDN forums then scroll down to Interdisciplinary Forums then click Postbacc Programs. You can find a bunch of feedback on each program too.
 
hello fellas,

I transferred to a 4 year school and I'm between a sophomore and junior, not really sure. I have about 11 C's/8 A&B's which are killing my GPA. I'm not sure if I should retake some of those C classes or just continue on, or go for a masters in microbiology later on.
 
Apps open in about 1.5 months! Feels like the last 5 months since I took my DAT have flown right past me.

Really curious to see how my app of sub-par GPA and high DAT will fair in this cycle. :xf:
 
Apps open in about 1.5 months! Feels like the last 5 months since I took my DAT have flown right past me.

Really curious to see how my app of sub-par GPA and high DAT will fair in this cycle. :xf:

#s plz? international? # of schools and where?

If you haven't taken too many sci classes, I'm also gonna recommend taking 3 summer sci classes in the first session and second session if your school does that. And send in summer transcripts by September. By then, you can have potentially 3-6 science classes in addition to your transcript, hopefully all A's. Follow up with faxing over unofficial transcripts, phone calls regarding the status of your application, all of those can really help you to increase your chances.
 
#s plz? international? # of schools and where?

If you haven't taken too many sci classes, I'm also gonna recommend taking 3 summer sci classes in the first session and second session if your school does that. And send in summer transcripts by September. By then, you can have potentially 3-6 science classes in addition to your transcript, hopefully all A's. Follow up with faxing over unofficial transcripts, phone calls regarding the status of your application, all of those can really help you to increase your chances.

I posted it before here, but here it is again:
3.2cum/3.0sci
24/ 25/ 24 (20+ on all sections)
Very good personal statement
ok I think LORs
about 100hrs total shadowing

I'm applying to about 9 schools mostly in ny state, northeast and 1 or 2 in the midwest.

I wish I could take summer classes but my school offers only the pre-reqs during summer. Though I am signing up for about 19 credits (all science) for fall. just in case I don't get in and so I have a higher GPA for next cycle. Did the math, another 4.0 semester would increase cumGPA by about 0.1 and sciGPA by 0.2.

I plan to send all my stuff in right away when apps open.
 
^I think your chances are good, but 9 schools is a bit iffy. I would highly recommend 15 schools. It seems redundant, and after your acceptances, it'll seem even more redundant, but you never know which of them will accept you. I'd throw in more private schools if you can. Case (forget it if you don't send in within June. interview slots fill up super fast, but clinically EXCELLENT school and worth every penny), Nova, LECOM, BU, Tufts, Midwestern IL and Midwestern AZ should all be on your list. Let me know if you have questions about any of the New York schools. I have friends in pretty much all of them except Stony Brook lol.
 
^I think your chances are good, but 9 schools is a bit iffy. I would highly recommend 15 schools. It seems redundant, and after your acceptances, it'll seem even more redundant, but you never know which of them will accept you. I'd throw in more private schools if you can. Case (forget it if you don't send in within June. interview slots fill up super fast, but clinically EXCELLENT school and worth every penny), Nova, LECOM, BU, Tufts, Midwestern IL and Midwestern AZ should all be on your list. Let me know if you have questions about any of the New York schools. I have friends in pretty much all of them except Stony Brook lol.

Would you say I have a chance at columbia?

And do you know when dental schools start sending out interview invites and when the actual interviews with the schools start?
 
With your GPA... I don't think so... Columbia DOES seem to have a huge emphasis on DATs, however, and yours look great. If you had 3.4 science and cumulative, I'd say go apply and see what happens, but you might be wasting your $. THAT SAID, you are from New York so it's tempting to not apply. You can try, but I really don't think your chances are good with Columbia. My philosophy is this, you should apply to all of your state schools, all of the private schools I mentioned, and then if you have the $, throw a few hopefuls in there like Columbia. It's such a far shot tho... It's entirely up to you.

I received my interviews at the end of July through October. Application was complete and all files in by around end of July as well. Earliest interview invites I've heard of were sent out from NYU. Actual interviews at NYU start in July. Most schools start in late August or September. Except for Tufts, which start after November.
 
Sounds a lot like my story. I had a sGPA of 2.97 and a oGPA of 3.16 and a 20 DAT and after 3 applications I was not accepted. I graduated with a biology and accounting degree. I decided to take the next year off from applying and attend a masters program after being out of school for a semester. I did a one year masters and got a 4.0, added shadowing and volunteer hours as well. I retook my DAT for the fourth time (they let you take it again, you just need permission and it is granted if you can show them a rejection letter) and got a 23. I reapplied for the fourth time and was finally accepted.

I think when you volunteer it doesn't have to be health related but they like it if you are helping underserved individuals. I have volunteered at a crisis center , Ronald McDonald House, and a community dental clinic for examples.

I went to Barry University and I thought it was a good program. It's in the Miami area, opportunity to volunteer at a community dental clinic (pretty much as often as you want), no thesis and most of your classmates are in the same situation so everyone seemed to help each other. I applied pretty late to the program and had no trouble getting in, but when I was leaving the class sizes where getting bigger so I'm not sure how early they fill the class. The other good thing about the program is that it also starts in the spring, there are one year, 18 month and two year options so it's a pretty flexible masters.

Good luck, if I can do it you can to, don't ever give up!
Hi Hawkteeth,

Which dental school did you get accepted into.
 
LECOM, and wait listed at Case, UDM, and Nova.

What was your DAT? Not to say one acceptance isn't good, it's fantastic, but I'm surprised that it was from LECOM and not a more established institution, especially with a 4.0 SMP Masters.
 
what was your dat? Not to say one acceptance isn't good, it's fantastic, but i'm surprised that it was from lecom and not a more established institution, especially with a 4.0 smp masters.

23aa/22ts
 
Thanks for the info.

I think this is also a fantastic example of how there is no such thing as a "safety school" when it comes to dental school.

Glad it worked out this cycle for you, Hawkteeth👍
 
anyone know of any good masters that would substitute GRE for DAT in California?
 
thanks for all the replies. I will have to start researching for masters in my area at least in my state somewhere. I would like to stay in CA if possible..Anyone know where to start looking? Maybe a website that shows a list of masters programs?
Depending where in CA you live, you could look into WesternU (in Pomona, CA) MS program. You will need to do really well, hopefully all A's and a few B's. Retake the DAT with an approval for the 4th attempt. A friend of mine retook the DAT four times and finally got accepted. Schools like to see an upward trend between the attempts. Maybe try to stay involved with some local dental schools in your area and especially the one where you'll be doing the MS program. Networking may increase your chances of acceptance. Also, try meeting with an admissions member from dental school to discuss your situation and any future progress. Work had in the MS program and good luck.
 
semester is almost over, and I think I'm getting a B+ for chem 2, a D in bio3, and a B+ in my literature class. I have a 2.4gpa, and I wonder if it gets any better? life I mean.🙁
 
semester is almost over, and I think I'm getting a B+ for chem 2, a D in bio3, and a B+ in my literature class. I have a 2.4gpa, and I wonder if it gets any better? life I mean.🙁

depending on your expectations, your life can get really bad or get really good.

if you're serious about this thing you need to get As. if you can't do that, stay away from school and do something else until you can. every earned grade short of an A is putting you further from a dental career.
 
depending on your expectations, your life can get really bad or get really good.

if you're serious about this thing you need to get As. if you can't do that, stay away from school and do something else until you can. every earned grade short of an A is putting you further from a dental career.

Yep, and every C, D or F drags that GPA down even further and becomes much more difficult to raise, even with a plethora of As.

Example: I am a non-trad with a BS in Bioengineering from 2002. I was once an older student (26-30 yo) Bio major looking to go into dentistry, and at one point around midway through Biology I had a 3.88 GPA. Then I changed to Bioengineering, had to work full time, and was pretty much fed up with school and was itching to just get to the work force in medical devices. So, I slacked (well, working full time didn't help), and the GPA fell to the 2.4s. This was with a mix of anything from a couple of Fs, Cs, Bs and As, but it fell hard and quick.

Fast-forward to this year. I was going to try and apply with that 2.4 and hope for a DAT AA of 23+. However, I wised up and decided it best to re-take all pre-reqs plus a handful of other upper-level Bio courses, not only to beef up the GPA, but to prep for the DAT and get myself back into the groove of lectures and exams (it's been 12 years since school).

I've scheduled 10 classes in Biology and Chemistry, and the math says that if I achieve As in all 10 courses, my GPA will only be boosted to around 2.96-3.01 (calculations vary depending on which spreadsheet I use). So I'll still be relying on a strong DAT score, but at least this will beef up my application and get me out of that spooky 2 GPA range.

My point, it's going to take me TEN college-level courses with As to get my GPA at or over 3.0 from a 2.4. However, if one starts at 3.0 and then gets a couple of Ds or Fs, the GPA tanks and is a b*tch to get back up. In other words - keep driving for As and no less than Bs all the time! Don't dig a hole too deep!
 
Yep, and every C, D or F drags that GPA down even further and becomes much more difficult to raise, even with a plethora of As.

Example: I am a non-trad with a BS in Bioengineering from 2002. I was once an older student (26-30 yo) Bio major looking to go into dentistry, and at one point around midway through Biology I had a 3.88 GPA. Then I changed to Bioengineering, had to work full time, and was pretty much fed up with school and was itching to just get to the work force in medical devices. So, I slacked (well, working full time didn't help), and the GPA fell to the 2.4s. This was with a mix of anything from a couple of Fs, Cs, Bs and As, but it fell hard and quick.

Fast-forward to this year. I was going to try and apply with that 2.4 and hope for a DAT AA of 23+. However, I wised up and decided it best to re-take all pre-reqs plus a handful of other upper-level Bio courses, not only to beef up the GPA, but to prep for the DAT and get myself back into the groove of lectures and exams (it's been 12 years since school).

I've scheduled 10 classes in Biology and Chemistry, and the math says that if I achieve As in all 10 courses, my GPA will only be boosted to around 2.96-3.01 (calculations vary depending on which spreadsheet I use). So I'll still be relying on a strong DAT score, but at least this will beef up my application and get me out of that spooky 2 GPA range.

My point, it's going to take me TEN college-level courses with As to get my GPA at or over 3.0 from a 2.4. However, if one starts at 3.0 and then gets a couple of Ds or Fs, the GPA tanks and is a b*tch to get back up. In other words - keep driving for As and no less than Bs all the time! Don't dig a hole too deep!

I know I have a total of 11 C's and I'm going to retake chem 1, microbiology, and now bio 3. There are times when I just want to give up because I know the material, but I always end up screwing myself up in some way, especially on exams.
 
This thread is keeping my hopes very high. Thanks to everyone who shared their stats and stories.

I'm about to finish up my 3rd year as an undergraduate. At the time of graduation next May, my overall GPA will probably be around a 3.3 and I'm hoping my science GPA will be around a 2.6. There is a huge discrepancy because I'm a double major in Biology and Music.

After graduation, I plan on doing a year's worth of post-bacc at a different 4-year university (closer to where I live), re-taking a few per-requisites (probably just redoing O-chem.. it's been KICKING my butt...) and mostly upper-level Biology classes.

I really don't want to take more than a year off, but if it takes more than one year, I'm willing to do it!

I have a lot of extracurriculars dental and non-dental, but I haven't taken the DAT yet because I'm just not ready.

I guess my question for you all is:

1. What schools should I consider applying to given a lower GPA and decent DAT? I live in NC so ECU and UNC are definitely on my list.

2. 1 or 2 years of post-bacc work? Maybe after my 1st year, I could go do a SMP? I'm really interested in BU's MA in Oral Sciences.. anyone have any feedback?

Thank you for your help, and best of luck in ALL of your dentistry (and non-dentistry) endeavors!
 
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This thread is keeping my hopes very high. Thanks to everyone who shared their stats and stories.

I'm about to finish up my 3rd year as an undergraduate. At the time of graduation next May, my overall GPA will probably be around a 3.3 and I'm hoping my science GPA will be around a 2.6. There is a huge discrepancy because I'm a double major in Biology and Music.

After graduation, I plan on doing a year's worth of post-bacc at a different 4-year university (closer to where I live), re-taking a few per-requisites (probably just redoing O-chem.. it's been KICKING my butt...) and mostly upper-level Biology classes.

I really don't want to take more than a year off, but if it takes more than one year, I'm willing to do it!

I have a lot of extracurriculars dental and non-dental, but I haven't taken the DAT yet because I'm just not ready.

I guess my question for you all is:

1. What schools should I consider applying to given a lower GPA and decent DAT? I live in NC so ECU and UNC are definitely on my list.

2. 1 or 2 years of post-bacc work? Maybe after my 1st year, I could go do a SMP? I'm really interested in BU's MA in Oral Sciences.. anyone have any feedback?

Thank you for your help, and best of luck in ALL of your dentistry (and non-dentistry) endeavors!

1) its too early for you to think about that. First take the DAT, then when the time for you to apply comes then think about this.

2) Definitely do a post-bac first. Get that science GPA up to at least 3.0. Take one year (2 semesters) worth of only science classes. After that talk to advisers in your school and in dental schools and see what your chances are like. If they say it's bad or you get the feeling its bad but they tell you its fine then go ahead and take more post-bac classes or a one year masters. Which one you should do depends on the number of credits you have. If you have a lot it might be hard for you to increase your GPA even with 4.0 semesters and in this case you should then do masters. Play around on a GPA calc to see how taking more credits will increase your GPA.
 
1) its too early for you to think about that. First take the DAT, then when the time for you to apply comes then think about this.

2) Definitely do a post-bac first. Get that science GPA up to at least 3.0. Take one year (2 semesters) worth of only science classes. After that talk to advisers in your school and in dental schools and see what your chances are like. If they say it's bad or you get the feeling its bad but they tell you its fine then go ahead and take more post-bac classes or a one year masters. Which one you should do depends on the number of credits you have. If you have a lot it might be hard for you to increase your GPA even with 4.0 semesters and in this case you should then do masters. Play around on a GPA calc to see how taking more credits will increase your GPA.
ryansgs:

Thanks for the feedback!
 
So I've held off posting on here for a long time, mostly because I didn't want to write an entire book on what i've done to get into dental school, but I figured it's time to write it out...hopefully it'll be helpful to someone.

I first went to undergrad full-time from 1996-99 and majored (eventually) in exercise science. To sum up my time in school, I went to college because I grew up hearing from my parents that "you go to college after high school," so I went. Had no idea what I wanted to do. Left in Dec. '99 with a 2.291 GPA over 103 hours. Came back home with a specific goal of opening my own business, but took some courses at my in-town university just to keep my parents happy. The result: 22 credit hours over 3 semesters with a cGPA of 0.00. (impressive, no?) AADSAS calculated cGPA at that point was 1.89.

My last time in a classroom was 9/11/01. No, I didn't enter the military...my mother told me she had been diagnosed with aggressive stage 3 breast cancer and she needed me to help at the family business. Went to work full-time and worked my way into an equal 1/3-partnership with my parents. Sold the biz in summer '05 and bought my own retail operation the next month. It was a horrible decision that cost me roughly $300k, and I closed my doors Sep. '09. During that fall I met with the dean of admissions at my local D-school and with his suggestions, I returned to school full-time Jan. '10. In the ~10 years since leaving school, I had run 3 different businesses, partly or completely owned 2 of them, gotten married, had 2 kids (my 3rd would be born in the summer of 2010, while I was in school), bought a house (not necessarily all in that order), and seen my bank account go from a strong 5 figures down to 1 figure at the worst point.

In any case, I went back to undergrad full-time. SIDE NOTE: Since I had never technically graduated my first time, I still qualified for full financial aid. It was probably the only way I could have ever afforded going back to school full-time. SO HERE'S A LESSON: If you are close to graduating but know you need to take more courses to up your GPA, you can hold off on your graduation, pick up another major, and continue to take the courses you need. You are eligible to receive full aid up to 180 credit hours without exception.

So, back to school: I basically got my B.S. in biology from scratch. Started all the way back at CHEM101 and BIO101. Over the next 5 semesters (+ 1 summer session) I completed almost 100 credit hours with a cGPA of 3.89. I could count the # of B's I got on one hand and still have a couple fingers left over. Took the DAT 7/7/11 and earned scores that "most applicants would kill for" according to my home D-school's dean of admissions (ironic that he rejected me twice, but that's for another post).

Applied during the '11-12 cycle since I had completed all the requirements laid out by said dean a full year quicker than he had planned. Applied to 16 schools...rejected from every single one. I had figured there would be a reasonable chance I might not get in, but I had never thought that I wouldn't even get a single interview offer. In any case, spring of '12 was not a good time to be around me. I was f^*king livid.

BUT, I went back and padded up my AADSAS app. Filled up all the "awards and embellishments" categories to the max, even if it was with something from 10 years ago. Re-wrote my personal statement. Got new letters of rec after explaining everything to my prof's and my shadowed dentist that I had asked the first time (all of whom had the same reaction of "What the hell?"). I never got to read any of them, but all of them told me afterwards that there was "no way I wouldn't get noticed now." My ochem prof even told me he couldn't remember ever writing so strong a letter.

In any case, I submitted my AADSAS the first week it opened up this summer and crossed my fingers with a LOT of anxiety. I knew that few candidates could hold a candle up to what I had done in the 2 years since returning to school, averaging just shy of 18 credit hours a semester with almost a 3.9. But my biggest fear were my AADSAS-calculated GPAs:

cGPA: 2.73
sGPA: 2.83
BCP: 3.08

Still applied to 16 schools. Changed up a few of them. Didn't do my research well enough because I was rejected right off the bat from 4 (NOVA, both Midwesterns, and Kentucky) because I didn't reach their magic 3.0. Wouldn't review my app even after I submitted written appeals stating my case for consideration. In any case, my first interview invite came early Oct. Interviewed early Nov. Accepted to UMSoD Dec.1. Interviewed at Tufts Dec. 3. Accepted Dec. 7.

SO HERE'S MY ADVICE FOR THOSE IN THIS GROUP:

1) We'll start with the obvious: Your mediocre grades are KILLING you.

Even if you re-take a course, AADSAS still considers your first grade as well. Withdrawing because of a poor grade is even worse. DON'T LET IT GET TO THAT POINT.

2) If you're trying to show an "upward trend," go all out.

At this point, when I see people posting saying they've "brought up their GPA's with 3.4/3.5 semesters," all I can think is that kid is STILL being a lazy ****. Really, people. It's not that hard to make an A when you've got your priorities straight AND PLACE YOUR FOCUS ON SCHOOL.

3) My one rant: All of you young kids are ridiculously entitled and spoiled.

How many of you have a smartphone? A flat-panel TV in your apartment? An XBox360 or PS3? An iPad? NONE OF THAT HELPS YOU GET A BETTER GRADE. Especially now, with this downturned economy, older graduates are going back to school in droves and will demolish you in the classroom with minimal effort, all because you let them. DO NOT GET LAZY. I can guarantee you that if you don't bust your butt while you're in school now, you will sorely regret it within 2 years of graduating because then you'll realize just how many doors are closed off to you, all because you were lazy and thought it was "too hard to get up for my 8am lecture."

4) Time will get you a pass...sort of.

I had 10 years between school1.0 and school2.0. I was able to show that I had grown and matured from an immature selfish boy to a prioritized man. But I still had to battle with my academic mistakes from back then. I didn't have dental schools lining up with offers for me. I had to sit and beg and pray for a chance.

MY POINT: When I read these posts of people saying "Well I've been working since I graduated 2 years ago and I've grown so much" and blah blah blah, the only thing that comes to mind is "Horsesh*t." Unless you've had some sort of monumental or tragic life experience in those 2 years, you haven't learned a thing other than "God, this whole work thing sucks. I want more money." I can guarantee you that if you start on in your PS about how you've "matured so much in these past 2 years" the admissions officer reading it is going to chuckle to himself and write you off. Want to know why? Because by the time you're 40 or 50 (or even 34), 2 years is nothing but a flash in the pan. Life rarely molds you that much in 2 years; and if it does, then you'll have something much more compelling to write about than "I've learned so much about myself while working in a dead-end job for the past 2 years." This is all the more reason why you need to take point #2 to heart.

5) If you are a "traditional" student, in your early twenties, you have an incredible opportunity to set yourself up FOR LIFE.

You have an opportunity to enter an industry with a practically limitless income ceiling. Listen, all these people on here talking about "how difficult it is to commit to dentistry because of the cost and debtload" don't know a single thing about money. Having a $300k school loan when you're potentially making $100k+ after 4 or 5 years is nothing. You know who you DON'T hear complaining about it? The non-trads. You know why? Because they understand about money. I won't get in to how you guys need to change your spending lifestyle and shift your view on income and monetary worth, because I might as well be having a conversation with a freshly-laid pile of dog$%*t. Nobody will understand that until they've put themselves in a hole and have to dig themselves out. But all I can say is that if you understand the value of a dollar then you most likely WON'T come out of dental school with $300k of debt because you'll have a priority on minimizing your unnecessary expenses.

I say this last point because it'll be important when you get into D-school. And I am certain that just about anyone can get into dental school. It's all just a matter of how badly you want it and how much time you're willing to wait. It may take 10 years of stepping away from the game, but it's always possible.

So there it is. Entering University of Michigan School of Dentistry class of 2017 with a 2.73 cumulative GPA.......



...and it only took 17 years. 🙂
 
Hell yeah TommyinVA. Great post.

Its all about how bad you want. Look at me 2 years of sub 3.0GPAs going as low as 2.18 once and now after full dedication to the exclusion of all distractions (girls, games, gadgets, tv etc) to my goal of being a dentist I've been rocking 4.0s or near for the past few semesters and a 24/25/24 DAT. I may not get in this cycle but I surely will keep trying until I do.

I agree about the debt being very worth it to become a dentist. The mean salary for a general dentist can go as high as 200k in some states. Nationwide avg is 163k with a median of 145k. 300k debt is nothing with a salary like that and actually having an awesome job where you use your hands to work, can be your own boss, have good hours so you can actually spend time w/ your family and travel, and not push papers all day long makes paying off the debt you will have much more worth it and bearable.
 
Hell yeah TommyinVA. Great post.

Its all about how bad you want. Look at me 2 years of sub 3.0GPAs going as low as 2.18 once and now after full dedication to the exclusion of all distractions (girls, games, gadgets, tv etc) to my goal of being a dentist I've been rocking 4.0s or near for the past few semesters and a 24/25/24 DAT. I may not get in this cycle but I surely will keep trying until I do.

Wow, that's some impressive work.
 
So I've held off posting on here for a long time, mostly because I didn't want to write an entire book on what i've done to get into dental school, but I figured it's time to write it out...hopefully it'll be helpful to someone.

I first went to undergrad full-time from 1996-99 and majored (eventually) in exercise science. To sum up my time in school, I went to college because I grew up hearing from my parents that "you go to college after high school," so I went. Had no idea what I wanted to do. Left in Dec. '99 with a 2.291 GPA over 103 hours. Came back home with a specific goal of opening my own business, but took some courses at my in-town university just to keep my parents happy. The result: 22 credit hours over 3 semesters with a cGPA of 0.00. (impressive, no?) AADSAS calculated cGPA at that point was 1.89.

My last time in a classroom was 9/11/01. No, I didn't enter the military...my mother told me she had been diagnosed with aggressive stage 3 breast cancer and she needed me to help at the family business. Went to work full-time and worked my way into an equal 1/3-partnership with my parents. Sold the biz in summer '05 and bought my own retail operation the next month. It was a horrible decision that cost me roughly $300k, and I closed my doors Sep. '09. During that fall I met with the dean of admissions at my local D-school and with his suggestions, I returned to school full-time Jan. '10. In the ~10 years since leaving school, I had run 3 different businesses, partly or completely owned 2 of them, gotten married, had 2 kids (my 3rd would be born in the summer of 2010, while I was in school), bought a house (not necessarily all in that order), and seen my bank account go from a strong 5 figures down to 1 figure at the worst point.

In any case, I went back to undergrad full-time. SIDE NOTE: Since I had never technically graduated my first time, I still qualified for full financial aid. It was probably the only way I could have ever afforded going back to school full-time. SO HERE'S A LESSON: If you are close to graduating but know you need to take more courses to up your GPA, you can hold off on your graduation, pick up another major, and continue to take the courses you need. You are eligible to receive full aid up to 180 credit hours without exception.

So, back to school: I basically got my B.S. in biology from scratch. Started all the way back at CHEM101 and BIO101. Over the next 5 semesters (+ 1 summer session) I completed almost 100 credit hours with a cGPA of 3.89. I could count the # of B's I got on one hand and still have a couple fingers left over. Took the DAT 7/7/11 and earned scores that "most applicants would kill for" according to my home D-school's dean of admissions (ironic that he rejected me twice, but that's for another post).

Applied during the '11-12 cycle since I had completed all the requirements laid out by said dean a full year quicker than he had planned. Applied to 16 schools...rejected from every single one. I had figured there would be a reasonable chance I might not get in, but I had never thought that I wouldn't even get a single interview offer. In any case, spring of '12 was not a good time to be around me. I was f^*king livid.

BUT, I went back and padded up my AADSAS app. Filled up all the "awards and embellishments" categories to the max, even if it was with something from 10 years ago. Re-wrote my personal statement. Got new letters of rec after explaining everything to my prof's and my shadowed dentist that I had asked the first time (all of whom had the same reaction of "What the hell?"). I never got to read any of them, but all of them told me afterwards that there was "no way I wouldn't get noticed now." My ochem prof even told me he couldn't remember ever writing so strong a letter.

In any case, I submitted my AADSAS the first week it opened up this summer and crossed my fingers with a LOT of anxiety. I knew that few candidates could hold a candle up to what I had done in the 2 years since returning to school, averaging just shy of 18 credit hours a semester with almost a 3.9. But my biggest fear were my AADSAS-calculated GPAs:

cGPA: 2.73
sGPA: 2.83
BCP: 3.08

Still applied to 16 schools. Changed up a few of them. Didn't do my research well enough because I was rejected right off the bat from 4 (NOVA, both Midwesterns, and Kentucky) because I didn't reach their magic 3.0. Wouldn't review my app even after I submitted written appeals stating my case for consideration. In any case, my first interview invite came early Oct. Interviewed early Nov. Accepted to UMSoD Dec.1. Interviewed at Tufts Dec. 3. Accepted Dec. 7.

SO HERE'S MY ADVICE FOR THOSE IN THIS GROUP:

1) We'll start with the obvious: Your mediocre grades are KILLING you.

Even if you re-take a course, AADSAS still considers your first grade as well. Withdrawing because of a poor grade is even worse. DON'T LET IT GET TO THAT POINT.

2) If you're trying to show an "upward trend," go all out.

At this point, when I see people posting saying they've "brought up their GPA's with 3.4/3.5 semesters," all I can think is that kid is STILL being a lazy ****. Really, people. It's not that hard to make an A when you've got your priorities straight AND PLACE YOUR FOCUS ON SCHOOL.

3) My one rant: All of you young kids are ridiculously entitled and spoiled.

How many of you have a smartphone? A flat-panel TV in your apartment? An XBox360 or PS3? An iPad? NONE OF THAT HELPS YOU GET A BETTER GRADE. Especially now, with this downturned economy, older graduates are going back to school in droves and will demolish you in the classroom with minimal effort, all because you let them. DO NOT GET LAZY. I can guarantee you that if you don't bust your butt while you're in school now, you will sorely regret it within 2 years of graduating because then you'll realize just how many doors are closed off to you, all because you were lazy and thought it was "too hard to get up for my 8am lecture."

4) Time will get you a pass...sort of.

I had 10 years between school1.0 and school2.0. I was able to show that I had grown and matured from an immature selfish boy to a prioritized man. But I still had to battle with my academic mistakes from back then. I didn't have dental schools lining up with offers for me. I had to sit and beg and pray for a chance.

MY POINT: When I read these posts of people saying "Well I've been working since I graduated 2 years ago and I've grown so much" and blah blah blah, the only thing that comes to mind is "Horsesh*t." Unless you've had some sort of monumental or tragic life experience in those 2 years, you haven't learned a thing other than "God, this whole work thing sucks. I want more money." I can guarantee you that if you start on in your PS about how you've "matured so much in these past 2 years" the admissions officer reading it is going to chuckle to himself and write you off. Want to know why? Because by the time you're 40 or 50 (or even 34), 2 years is nothing but a flash in the pan. Life rarely molds you that much in 2 years; and if it does, then you'll have something much more compelling to write about than "I've learned so much about myself while working in a dead-end job for the past 2 years." This is all the more reason why you need to take point #2 to heart.

5) If you are a "traditional" student, in your early twenties, you have an incredible opportunity to set yourself up FOR LIFE.

You have an opportunity to enter an industry with a practically limitless income ceiling. Listen, all these people on here talking about "how difficult it is to commit to dentistry because of the cost and debtload" don't know a single thing about money. Having a $300k school loan when you're potentially making $100k+ after 4 or 5 years is nothing. You know who you DON'T hear complaining about it? The non-trads. You know why? Because they understand about money. I won't get in to how you guys need to change your spending lifestyle and shift your view on income and monetary worth, because I might as well be having a conversation with a freshly-laid pile of dog$%*t. Nobody will understand that until they've put themselves in a hole and have to dig themselves out. But all I can say is that if you understand the value of a dollar then you most likely WON'T come out of dental school with $300k of debt because you'll have a priority on minimizing your unnecessary expenses.

I say this last point because it'll be important when you get into D-school. And I am certain that just about anyone can get into dental school. It's all just a matter of how badly you want it and how much time you're willing to wait. It may take 10 years of stepping away from the game, but it's always possible.

So there it is. Entering University of Michigan School of Dentistry class of 2017 with a 2.73 cumulative GPA.......



...and it only took 17 years. 🙂


That was amazing thankyou. And also, congraduations!! May I ask a follow up question? What did you change in your study habits that allowed you to get the grades that you got? Is the key to good grades based on the amount of time that you studied? I'm currently trying to improve my grades, but I've heard that increasing the amount of study time is not always the answer...
 
Hello everyone,

I have been a long time reader (sometimes poster) on this forum and have always frequented the Under 3.0 Club for a while. I have been working on improving my chances for quite some time (since undergraduate really). I have finally completed a very intense 1 year master's program and would like some input on my chances this coming round. I recognized after I graduated from Temple that I was not a strong enough applicant so I never bothered to apply. Now that I have finished the master's I am hoping that I have a little more pull when admission's committee members look at my application. I'll give you a summary:

- Graduated from Temple University in January 2011
- oGPA = 3.01
- sGPA = 2.80
- Studied for the DAT that spring semester, took it August 2011
- AA = 18
- TS = 18
- Bio = 18
- OChem = 20
- GChem = 18
- RC = 20
- PAT = 17
- QR = 16 🙁

- Took A&P and Biochemistry at my Community College while I applied for Master's Programs
- Accepted into MBS program
- 3.2 GPA, 17 credits per semester at Medical School level with the same professors that teach the Medical Students (Let me preface this by saying, the grading policy at this school is very difficult. No plusses or minuses which means an 89.4% = 80%. I lost out on quite few A's because of this).

- SEMESTER 1:
  • Biochemistry, Physiology, Histology I, Genetics, Epidemiology and Biostatistics, Modern History of Biomedical Science, Professional Development, Community Experience

- SEMESTER 2:
  • Pharmacology, Immunology, Cell Biology, Neuroscience, Histology II, Modern History of Biomedical Science, Professional Development, Community Experience

- My shadowing experience is good, I've got that covered.
- I had the opportunity to engage in volunteer work while in the Master's program so that's covered as well.

I am concerned that all of my hard work in this Master's Program will go un-noticed when they look at my GPA from undergrad and see that the undergrad and Master's GPA's are similar. The difference is that I worked exponentially harder in the Master's program and the workload was exceptionally more difficult. I wish my GPA there could have been higher but I guess it's my fault that I missed one or two test questions that would have given me the A's in at least three of the classes I took there.

I would appreciate any input that you have to offer.

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
Hello everyone,

I have been a long time reader (sometimes poster) on this forum and have always frequented the Under 3.0 Club for a while. I have been working on improving my chances for quite some time (since undergraduate really). I have finally completed a very intense 1 year master's program and would like some input on my chances this coming round. I recognized after I graduated from Temple that I was not a strong enough applicant so I never bothered to apply. Now that I have finished the master's I am hoping that I have a little more pull when admission's committee members look at my application. I'll give you a summary:

- Graduated from Temple University with a degree in Geology in January 2011
- oGPA = 3.01
- sGPA = 2.80
- Studied for the DAT that spring semester, took it August 2011
- AA = 18
- TS = 18
- Bio = 18
- OChem = 20
- GChem = 18
- RC = 20
- PAT = 17
- QR = 16 🙁

- Took A&P and Biochemistry at my Community College while I applied for Master's Programs
- Accepted into TCMC's MBS program
- 3.2 GPA, 17 credits per semester at Medical School level with the same professors that teach the Medical Students (Let me preface this by saying, the grading policy at this school is unreal. No plusses or minuses which means an 89.4% = 80%. I lost out on quite few A's because of this).

- SEMESTER 1:
  • Biochemistry, Physiology, Histology I, Genetics, Epidemiology and Biostatistics, Modern History of Biomedical Science, Professional Development, Community Experience

- SEMESTER 2:
  • Pharmacology, Immunology, Cell Biology, Neuroscience, Histology II, Modern History of Biomedical Science, Professional Development, Community Experience

- My shadowing experience is good, I've got that covered.
- I had the opportunity to engage in volunteer work while in the Master's program so that's covered as well.

I am concerned that all of my hard work in this Master's Program will go un-noticed when they look at my GPA from undergrad and see that the undergrad and Master's GPA's are similar. The difference is that I worked exponentially harder in the Master's program and the workload was exceptionally more difficult. I wish my GPA there could have been higher but I guess it's my fault that I missed one or two test questions that would have given me the A's in at least three of the classes I took there.

I would appreciate any input that you have to offer.

Thanks!

It will be difficult for you to get looked at with this DAT/GPA/grad GPA combo 🙁 Best thing for you might be to ask for an appointment with the Temple admissions office (since they might be aware of how hard your master program was) and ask for advice. See if they can recommend anything that may strengthen your application. Best do it quickly, though, if that's what you're going to do. If they are anything like my school's adcom, they will be too busy once the application season starts to meet with you.
 
Hello everyone,

I have been a long time reader (sometimes poster) on this forum and have always frequented the Under 3.0 Club for a while. I have been working on improving my chances for quite some time (since undergraduate really). I have finally completed a very intense 1 year master's program and would like some input on my chances this coming round. I recognized after I graduated from Temple that I was not a strong enough applicant so I never bothered to apply. Now that I have finished the master's I am hoping that I have a little more pull when admission's committee members look at my application. I'll give you a summary:

- Graduated from Temple University with a degree in Geology in January 2011
- oGPA = 3.01
- sGPA = 2.80
- Studied for the DAT that spring semester, took it August 2011
- AA = 18
- TS = 18
- Bio = 18
- OChem = 20
- GChem = 18
- RC = 20
- PAT = 17
- QR = 16 🙁

- Took A&P and Biochemistry at my Community College while I applied for Master's Programs
- Accepted into TCMC's MBS program
- 3.2 GPA, 17 credits per semester at Medical School level with the same professors that teach the Medical Students (Let me preface this by saying, the grading policy at this school is unreal. No plusses or minuses which means an 89.4% = 80%. I lost out on quite few A's because of this).

- SEMESTER 1:
  • Biochemistry, Physiology, Histology I, Genetics, Epidemiology and Biostatistics, Modern History of Biomedical Science, Professional Development, Community Experience

- SEMESTER 2:
  • Pharmacology, Immunology, Cell Biology, Neuroscience, Histology II, Modern History of Biomedical Science, Professional Development, Community Experience

- My shadowing experience is good, I've got that covered.
- I had the opportunity to engage in volunteer work while in the Master's program so that's covered as well.

I am concerned that all of my hard work in this Master's Program will go un-noticed when they look at my GPA from undergrad and see that the undergrad and Master's GPA's are similar. The difference is that I worked exponentially harder in the Master's program and the workload was exceptionally more difficult. I wish my GPA there could have been higher but I guess it's my fault that I missed one or two test questions that would have given me the A's in at least three of the classes I took there.

I would appreciate any input that you have to offer.

Thanks!

I don't know if you have followed 2pac's thread or not but your kind of in a similar situation. Your master's GPA is not very good. Have you retaken the DAT or plan too? Because to overcome your low GPA you need a 23+. Study as hard as you can for the DAT, read peoples breakdowns and find a good plan that will work for you. Right now that is the only thing you can do to improve your stats. I had similar stats, got a 4.0 in a one year masters improved my DAT to a AA23 and received 4 interviews and one acceptance (I applied to 21 schools). It just goes to show you how competitive it's getting out there. The only thing that worries me is that you worked as hard as you could and only got a 3.2, sorry if I'm blunt but dental school is going to be a lot more difficult. Good luck though, if it is what you truly want you will find a way.
 
Thanks for the input. I did work as hard as I can. As I mentioned, the grading at this school is unforgiving and I had a lot of 89%'s which ultimately got rounded down to B's. In my opinion, that one point is not enough to say that I do not know A's amount of material. Unfortunately, I cannot change this. I am planning on re-taking the DAT this summer so hopefully I can do better. You mean to tell me that dental schools will not look at my course load over the past year and recognize that it was significantly more difficult than what I took on in undergraduate?
 
Thanks for the input. I did work as hard as I can. As I mentioned, the grading at this school is unforgiving and I had a lot of 89%'s which ultimately got rounded down to B's. In my opinion, that one point is not enough to say that I do not know A's amount of material. Unfortunately, I cannot change this. I am planning on re-taking the DAT this summer so hopefully I can do better. You mean to tell me that dental schools will not look at my course load over the past year and recognize that it was significantly more difficult than what I took on in undergraduate?

They will, but graduate grades tend to be higher than undergrad (since a C is failing, usually) and with a low undergrad they like to see high grad GPA to show you've made a dramatic change. It may be different at your program so when applying to Temple, they might understand, but others will see that as a low end masters GPA. My program was the same way, teachers said an 89.9 was a B, so I made sure I wasn't in that situation. Just concentrate on that DAT.
 
Unfortunately, Hawkteeth is right. The schools may not know nor care that your Masters was difficult. Of course, you will need a much higher DAT, but we've seen that even that may not get you in, without a significant upward trend. Again, I highly recommend you set up a meeting with Temple admissions, or any adcom that will agree to see you. That's what I did a few years back, and it got me an acceptance from my dream school.
 
So I've held off posting on here for a long time, mostly because I didn't want to write an entire book on what i've done to get into dental school, but I figured it's time to write it out...hopefully it'll be helpful to someone.

I first went to undergrad full-time from 1996-99 and majored (eventually) in exercise science. To sum up my time in school, I went to college because I grew up hearing from my parents that "you go to college after high school," so I went. Had no idea what I wanted to do. Left in Dec. '99 with a 2.291 GPA over 103 hours. Came back home with a specific goal of opening my own business, but took some courses at my in-town university just to keep my parents happy. The result: 22 credit hours over 3 semesters with a cGPA of 0.00. (impressive, no?) AADSAS calculated cGPA at that point was 1.89.

My last time in a classroom was 9/11/01. No, I didn't enter the military...my mother told me she had been diagnosed with aggressive stage 3 breast cancer and she needed me to help at the family business. Went to work full-time and worked my way into an equal 1/3-partnership with my parents. Sold the biz in summer '05 and bought my own retail operation the next month. It was a horrible decision that cost me roughly $300k, and I closed my doors Sep. '09. During that fall I met with the dean of admissions at my local D-school and with his suggestions, I returned to school full-time Jan. '10. In the ~10 years since leaving school, I had run 3 different businesses, partly or completely owned 2 of them, gotten married, had 2 kids (my 3rd would be born in the summer of 2010, while I was in school), bought a house (not necessarily all in that order), and seen my bank account go from a strong 5 figures down to 1 figure at the worst point.

In any case, I went back to undergrad full-time. SIDE NOTE: Since I had never technically graduated my first time, I still qualified for full financial aid. It was probably the only way I could have ever afforded going back to school full-time. SO HERE'S A LESSON: If you are close to graduating but know you need to take more courses to up your GPA, you can hold off on your graduation, pick up another major, and continue to take the courses you need. You are eligible to receive full aid up to 180 credit hours without exception.

So, back to school: I basically got my B.S. in biology from scratch. Started all the way back at CHEM101 and BIO101. Over the next 5 semesters (+ 1 summer session) I completed almost 100 credit hours with a cGPA of 3.89. I could count the # of B's I got on one hand and still have a couple fingers left over. Took the DAT 7/7/11 and earned scores that "most applicants would kill for" according to my home D-school's dean of admissions (ironic that he rejected me twice, but that's for another post).

Applied during the '11-12 cycle since I had completed all the requirements laid out by said dean a full year quicker than he had planned. Applied to 16 schools...rejected from every single one. I had figured there would be a reasonable chance I might not get in, but I had never thought that I wouldn't even get a single interview offer. In any case, spring of '12 was not a good time to be around me. I was f^*king livid.

BUT, I went back and padded up my AADSAS app. Filled up all the "awards and embellishments" categories to the max, even if it was with something from 10 years ago. Re-wrote my personal statement. Got new letters of rec after explaining everything to my prof's and my shadowed dentist that I had asked the first time (all of whom had the same reaction of "What the hell?"). I never got to read any of them, but all of them told me afterwards that there was "no way I wouldn't get noticed now." My ochem prof even told me he couldn't remember ever writing so strong a letter.

In any case, I submitted my AADSAS the first week it opened up this summer and crossed my fingers with a LOT of anxiety. I knew that few candidates could hold a candle up to what I had done in the 2 years since returning to school, averaging just shy of 18 credit hours a semester with almost a 3.9. But my biggest fear were my AADSAS-calculated GPAs:

cGPA: 2.73
sGPA: 2.83
BCP: 3.08

Still applied to 16 schools. Changed up a few of them. Didn't do my research well enough because I was rejected right off the bat from 4 (NOVA, both Midwesterns, and Kentucky) because I didn't reach their magic 3.0. Wouldn't review my app even after I submitted written appeals stating my case for consideration. In any case, my first interview invite came early Oct. Interviewed early Nov. Accepted to UMSoD Dec.1. Interviewed at Tufts Dec. 3. Accepted Dec. 7.

SO HERE'S MY ADVICE FOR THOSE IN THIS GROUP:

1) We'll start with the obvious: Your mediocre grades are KILLING you.

Even if you re-take a course, AADSAS still considers your first grade as well. Withdrawing because of a poor grade is even worse. DON'T LET IT GET TO THAT POINT.

2) If you're trying to show an "upward trend," go all out.

At this point, when I see people posting saying they've "brought up their GPA's with 3.4/3.5 semesters," all I can think is that kid is STILL being a lazy ****. Really, people. It's not that hard to make an A when you've got your priorities straight AND PLACE YOUR FOCUS ON SCHOOL.

3) My one rant: All of you young kids are ridiculously entitled and spoiled.

How many of you have a smartphone? A flat-panel TV in your apartment? An XBox360 or PS3? An iPad? NONE OF THAT HELPS YOU GET A BETTER GRADE. Especially now, with this downturned economy, older graduates are going back to school in droves and will demolish you in the classroom with minimal effort, all because you let them. DO NOT GET LAZY. I can guarantee you that if you don't bust your butt while you're in school now, you will sorely regret it within 2 years of graduating because then you'll realize just how many doors are closed off to you, all because you were lazy and thought it was "too hard to get up for my 8am lecture."

4) Time will get you a pass...sort of.

I had 10 years between school1.0 and school2.0. I was able to show that I had grown and matured from an immature selfish boy to a prioritized man. But I still had to battle with my academic mistakes from back then. I didn't have dental schools lining up with offers for me. I had to sit and beg and pray for a chance.

MY POINT: When I read these posts of people saying "Well I've been working since I graduated 2 years ago and I've grown so much" and blah blah blah, the only thing that comes to mind is "Horsesh*t." Unless you've had some sort of monumental or tragic life experience in those 2 years, you haven't learned a thing other than "God, this whole work thing sucks. I want more money." I can guarantee you that if you start on in your PS about how you've "matured so much in these past 2 years" the admissions officer reading it is going to chuckle to himself and write you off. Want to know why? Because by the time you're 40 or 50 (or even 34), 2 years is nothing but a flash in the pan. Life rarely molds you that much in 2 years; and if it does, then you'll have something much more compelling to write about than "I've learned so much about myself while working in a dead-end job for the past 2 years." This is all the more reason why you need to take point #2 to heart.

5) If you are a "traditional" student, in your early twenties, you have an incredible opportunity to set yourself up FOR LIFE.

You have an opportunity to enter an industry with a practically limitless income ceiling. Listen, all these people on here talking about "how difficult it is to commit to dentistry because of the cost and debtload" don't know a single thing about money. Having a $300k school loan when you're potentially making $100k+ after 4 or 5 years is nothing. You know who you DON'T hear complaining about it? The non-trads. You know why? Because they understand about money. I won't get in to how you guys need to change your spending lifestyle and shift your view on income and monetary worth, because I might as well be having a conversation with a freshly-laid pile of dog$%*t. Nobody will understand that until they've put themselves in a hole and have to dig themselves out. But all I can say is that if you understand the value of a dollar then you most likely WON'T come out of dental school with $300k of debt because you'll have a priority on minimizing your unnecessary expenses.

I say this last point because it'll be important when you get into D-school. And I am certain that just about anyone can get into dental school. It's all just a matter of how badly you want it and how much time you're willing to wait. It may take 10 years of stepping away from the game, but it's always possible.

So there it is. Entering University of Michigan School of Dentistry class of 2017 with a 2.73 cumulative GPA.......



...and it only took 17 years. 🙂

Bravo! I've had a very similar experience, and completely agree with all of this (even if I do own a smart phone, HDTV, Ipad and PS3.... /guilty.)
 
That was amazing thankyou. And also, congraduations!! May I ask a follow up question? What did you change in your study habits that allowed you to get the grades that you got? Is the key to good grades based on the amount of time that you studied?

What did I change in my study habits????! Listen, I'm not trying to sound insensitive, but there's no "secret trick" to studying...either you do it or you don't. Some people are better at it and can get away with studying less. Others aren't so good at it and need to study more.

If you aren't a good studier, then you need to commit more time to your classwork. Review your notes within 2 hours of taking them in class. Re-write them if you have to. Whatever it takes.

I'm currently trying to improve my grades, but I've heard that increasing the amount of study time is not always the answer...

Now, I don't know what your grades are that you're trying to improve; but since you're looking at the "sub-3.0" post I'm going to assume you have a fair # of B's and C's, so here's a little hit of cold hard truth: If you are struggling now to make A's and B's (and more A's than B's), then I am willing to bet you would struggle and more likely than not fail in dental school.

What did I change? My priorities. I actually CARED about how I performed, mostly because I UNDERSTOOD WHAT WAS AT STAKE. Go back to my post and look at point #3 about undergrad kids now being entitled and spoiled. If you're not making the grades you want, then try harder. Your comment of "I've heard that increasing the amount of study time is not always the answer" sounds more to me like, "I don't want to do any more work."

Listen, if you want to improve your grades, then the first thing you need to do is put in all the time it takes for you to get those better grades. If it means spending every night from 7 to 10 in the library without checking your Facebook or this forum every 5 minutes, then do it. If it means no more partying and spending your weekends re-writing your notes while you listen to the week's lectures (which I'm assuming you attended and paid attention to) that you recorded, so be it. You need to do whatever it takes. THEN, after you've made your grades and see what it takes for YOU to achieve them, you can look back and see where you might be able to use your time more efficiently.

I also said before that us older students who come back to take more undergrad courses will demolish you every time, and we will. Do you know why? Because we care about how we perform. We've already done school before and don't want to make the same mistake of screwing around again. And more importantly, any cost of education falls completely on us. Do you know how much it cost me to come back to school? $45k. Do you have any earthly concept of how much money that is? Have you ever seen that much? It's no joke. So which do you think I'd choose to do: Dick around with my friends because I'm "so burned out from class" or sit at my dining room table after my kids are in bed and pore over my notes and my text for 4 hours?

I already said it once: you say you’re “trying to improve your grades”...well, if you can’t get them up then you’re not trying hard enough. And if you think you ARE trying hard enough, then either you aren’t ready to commit yourself to the goal of dental school or you just haven’t got what it takes.
 
Now, I don't know what your grades are that you're trying to improve; but since you're looking at the "sub-3.0" post I'm going to assume you have a fair # of B's and C's, so here's a little hit of cold hard truth: If you are struggling now to make A's and B's (and more A's than B's), then I am willing to bet you would struggle and more likely than not fail in dental school.

What did I change? My priorities. I actually CARED about how I performed, mostly because I UNDERSTOOD WHAT WAS AT STAKE. Go back to my post and look at point #3 about undergrad kids now being entitled and spoiled. If you're not making the grades you want, then try harder. Your comment of "I've heard that increasing the amount of study time is not always the answer" sounds more to me like, "I don't want to do any more work."

Listen, if you want to improve your grades, then the first thing you need to do is put in all the time it takes for you to get those better grades. If it means spending every night from 7 to 10 in the library without checking your Facebook or this forum every 5 minutes, then do it. If it means no more partying and spending your weekends re-writing your notes while you listen to the week's lectures (which I'm assuming you attended and paid attention to) that you recorded, so be it. You need to do whatever it takes. THEN, after you've made your grades and see what it takes for YOU to achieve them, you can look back and see where you might be able to use your time more efficiently.

I also said before that us older students who come back to take more undergrad courses will demolish you every time, and we will. Do you know why? Because we care about how we perform. We've already done school before and don't want to make the same mistake of screwing around again. And more importantly, any cost of education falls completely on us. Do you know how much it cost me to come back to school? $45k. Do you have any earthly concept of how much money that is? Have you ever seen that much? It's no joke. So which do you think I'd choose to do: Dick around with my friends because I'm "so burned out from class" or sit at my dining room table after my kids are in bed and pore over my notes and my text for 4 hours?

I already said it once: you say you’re “trying to improve your grades”...well, if you can’t get them up then you’re not trying hard enough. And if you think you ARE trying hard enough, then either you aren’t ready to commit yourself to the goal of dental school or you just haven’t got what it takes.
Thank you for bringing common sense to the generation of Justin Bieber and laziness.

/fellow non-trad
 
You can generate good income in dentistry, but what about over saturation, dentists on every corner and overhead?

It's hard to open up a new practice against these more established practices
 
What did I change in my study habits????! Listen, I'm not trying to sound insensitive, but there's no "secret trick" to studying...either you do it or you don't. Some people are better at it and can get away with studying less. Others aren't so good at it and need to study more.

If you aren't a good studier, then you need to commit more time to your classwork. Review your notes within 2 hours of taking them in class. Re-write them if you have to. Whatever it takes.



Now, I don't know what your grades are that you're trying to improve; but since you're looking at the "sub-3.0" post I'm going to assume you have a fair # of B's and C's, so here's a little hit of cold hard truth: If you are struggling now to make A's and B's (and more A's than B's), then I am willing to bet you would struggle and more likely than not fail in dental school.

What did I change? My priorities. I actually CARED about how I performed, mostly because I UNDERSTOOD WHAT WAS AT STAKE. Go back to my post and look at point #3 about undergrad kids now being entitled and spoiled. If you're not making the grades you want, then try harder. Your comment of "I've heard that increasing the amount of study time is not always the answer" sounds more to me like, "I don't want to do any more work."

Listen, if you want to improve your grades, then the first thing you need to do is put in all the time it takes for you to get those better grades. If it means spending every night from 7 to 10 in the library without checking your Facebook or this forum every 5 minutes, then do it. If it means no more partying and spending your weekends re-writing your notes while you listen to the week's lectures (which I'm assuming you attended and paid attention to) that you recorded, so be it. You need to do whatever it takes. THEN, after you've made your grades and see what it takes for YOU to achieve them, you can look back and see where you might be able to use your time more efficiently.

I also said before that us older students who come back to take more undergrad courses will demolish you every time, and we will. Do you know why? Because we care about how we perform. We've already done school before and don't want to make the same mistake of screwing around again. And more importantly, any cost of education falls completely on us. Do you know how much it cost me to come back to school? $45k. Do you have any earthly concept of how much money that is? Have you ever seen that much? It's no joke. So which do you think I'd choose to do: D*** around with my friends because I'm "so burned out from class" or sit at my dining room table after my kids are in bed and pore over my notes and my text for 4 hours?

I already said it once: you say you’re “trying to improve your grades”...well, if you can’t get them up then you’re not trying hard enough. And if you think you ARE trying hard enough, then either you aren’t ready to commit yourself to the goal of dental school or you just haven’t got what it takes.


Thanks for the reality check :scared: ........ 😳
 
If you have in between a 2.6- 2.8 for sci gpa and little over 3.0 for the overall gpa, will schools at least look at your application or will they toss it aside from the beggining? which schools dont have a cutoff minimum GPA? thank you
 
If you have in between a 2.6- 2.8 for sci gpa and little over 3.0 for the overall gpa, will schools at least look at your application or will they toss it aside from the beggining? which schools dont have a cutoff minimum GPA? thank you

Most schools will toss it, unfortunately. And almost all the schools have an unsaid cut off if it doesn't mention it on their website. Do some research on this thread. You shouldn't be trying to apply with a 2.6-2.8.
 
Hi guys ive been a lurker and wanted to post my stats to see if i got a shot at dschool. I am majoring in biopsych and have 3.1 ogpa and a 2.9 science, assuming if i score 20 on the dat do i have a chance to get in? Im thinking about taking a smp if i absolutely need to. Ima take a couple of years off hch would give me plenty of time to study for dat and get experience and hours. What do you recommend me to do to improve my chance of getting in?
 
Raise that 2.9 sgpa to at least 3.0 sgpa by taking upper div bio classes.
Do an SMP, nail it (4.0).
You don't want to study DAT for more than 3 months.
Your main priorities should be raising that GPA and then if you are able to do proper time management, start adding volunteer/shadowing hours.
 
hello yall,
i also want to know what my chances are of making it to dental school.
i havea bachelor's degree in psychology and my gpa is 2.75 and i have only taken bio I/II, chem I/II orgo I and microbio. i have also taken cal I. my science gpa is also around 2.75.
the thing with me is i am an african student who came to america as a refugee and 5 years ago i was only interested in working alot to send money to my family and thus doing well in school was not easy. i just want you all's honest opinion because i really, really want to be a dentist and it has been my dream since i came to america but life kind of got in the way a little.
 
hello yall,
i also want to know what my chances are of making it to dental school.
i havea bachelor's degree in psychology and my gpa is 2.75 and i have only taken bio I/II, chem I/II orgo I and microbio. i have also taken cal I. my science gpa is also around 2.75.
the thing with me is i am an african student who came to america as a refugee and 5 years ago i was only interested in working alot to send money to my family and thus doing well in school was not easy. i just want you all's honest opinion because i really, really want to be a dentist and it has been my dream since i came to america but life kind of got in the way a little.

Take more courses and bring up your GPAs to at least 3.0. Since you already have your bachelors I'd say another year or 2 of straight As in all your classes at a post-bac program will do the trick and bring you up to 3.0. Have you taken the DAT yet? If not, aim for at least a 20. Check out the breakdowns in the DAT discussions forum for more info on how to study and what study materials to buy.

If you beleive in yourself you can achieve all of your dreams. Don't forget that. Put the time in now and become all that you can be in the future. Good luck👍
 
Hi guys ive been a lurker and wanted to post my stats to see if i got a shot at dschool. I am majoring in biopsych and have 3.1 ogpa and a 2.9 science, assuming if i score 20 on the dat do i have a chance to get in? Im thinking about taking a smp if i absolutely need to. Ima take a couple of years off hch would give me plenty of time to study for dat and get experience and hours. What do you recommend me to do to improve my chance of getting in?

It's going to be hard because I had similiar gpa to yours (3.0ogpa 2.8sgpa) with a 20AA and was not offered any interviews. So I will be doing a formal post bacc at sfsu for at least a year and hopefully that'll help me get into a dschool assuming I do really well. In terms of doing smp vs. pb, it's really up to you. For me, I can't afford smp so the choice was easy for me.

hello yall,
i also want to know what my chances are of making it to dental school.
i havea bachelor's degree in psychology and my gpa is 2.75 and i have only taken bio I/II, chem I/II orgo I and microbio. i have also taken cal I. my science gpa is also around 2.75.
the thing with me is i am an african student who came to america as a refugee and 5 years ago i was only interested in working alot to send money to my family and thus doing well in school was not easy. i just want you all's honest opinion because i really, really want to be a dentist and it has been my dream since i came to america but life kind of got in the way a little.

Do your best to get an A with the rest of the science courses. I'm sure there are circumstances that admissions consider but the gpa is still low. I'm sure you can write about your experiences and that'll really stand out in your personal statement but admissions still want students who can perform well in dental school. LIke what others mentioned, try post bacc or smp and really ace those classes and go from there.
 
I just finished my 3rd year of undergrad at a Big Ten University. I am a Canadian citizen, but I have been living in the US since the age of 4. I don't have my green card just a student visa. I not planning to apply until next summer (2014). I am retaking my DAT and will hopefully be volunteering as a dental assistant at the Salvation Army over the summer as well.

GPA: 2.99
sGPA: 2.75
DAT: AA 19

I don't have any preference of where to go to school. My number 1 choice is Michigan, but at this point I don't think I have a chance.
 
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