Air Force match results here!!!!

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Either “transitional year” is extremely popular, or there are going to be a lot of VERY pissed off AF students. I count a total of about 90 people who got PGY 1 only (transitional, Gen surg PGY1, IM PGY 1), presumably to be followed by a GMO or flight surgery tour. This is out of only 350 people trying to match into a primary specialty. Since many of the people who matched were likely returning GMO’s, I bet the percentage of MS4’s who were forced into a PGY1—flight surgery career track is VERY high. Am I missing something, or is the Air Force GMO/flight surgeon training paradigm looking more and more like the Navy all the time? This is a major change from just a few years ago.
 
You know, I could've had it worse, but...

Busted my ass for four years. Ranked #1 out of 200 students in my class with a 4.0 (I think around 5 had similar grades). Step I and Step II were both > 250. Prior military experience (did not count for points, though, I believe- I joined when I was 17). Had a tad of research experience with the AF. Did well on my away rotation at an AFB.

Wanted a civilian spot in general surgery (I know, rough, but that was after ruling out neurosurgery with AF competitiveness a factor). Had interviews from Massachusettes General, University of Washington, Mayo Clinic, Emory, Stanford, Northwestern, etc.

Both of my parents had cancer (in remission, thankfully). Wanted to stay close to them (or go somewhere they could move), and if not that, I have a girlfriend (marriage material) of 1 year I wanted to match near me. I felt the whole world was open to me.

So I got a military general surgery slot. Not in a bad location, but it was, oddly enough, not the first military program I ranked, either.

I did everything I could. Maybe I should've done more research, but I think in the end there were the Gods of the Selection Board and they ruled me.

Oh well. There are definitely positives I can see in what I'm doing and where I'm going. There are some very good people who are getting one year slots and then being drafted into flight surgery; I was more lucky. But I want other people who haven't signed up to hear my story, realize what I did, and then know that I ultimately failed.

I think this will be my last post on these boards. I fear I have done enough to compromise my anonymity. There are many good posters here with valuable info. Some of the military bashing and the converse, recruiting, gets old, but a prospective military physician needs to listen to them all.

In the end, I always wanted to serve my county. But on my terms. I would've gotten into the residency of my choice, and then signed up. Ah, how naive I was when I was 17...
 
mitchconnie said:
Either “transitional year” is extremely popular, or there are going to be a lot of VERY pissed off AF students. I count a total of about 90 people who got PGY 1 only (transitional, Gen surg PGY1, IM PGY 1), presumably to be followed by a GMO or flight surgery tour. This is out of only 350 people trying to match into a primary specialty. Since many of the people who matched were likely returning GMO’s, I bet the percentage of MS4’s who were forced into a PGY1—flight surgery career track is VERY high. Am I missing something, or is the Air Force GMO/flight surgeon training paradigm looking more and more like the Navy all the time? This is a major change from just a few years ago.
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So are most returning GMO's still ranked 2Lt even after a some years of service?? I saw lots of 2Lt matching in residencies other than transitional year or PGY1.
Also, what was the difference between civilian sponsored and deferred again??
 
So are most returning GMO's still ranked 2Lt even after a some years of service?? I saw lots of 2Lt matching in residencies other than transitional year or PGY1.
Also, what was the difference between civilian sponsored and deferred again??
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This is correct. Returning GMO’s will be captains. Take anesthesia, for example. It looks like there are 19 selects for anesthesia residency. There are ten 2Lt’s (presumably students) and nine Capt or Major (presumably flight surgeons). Look at derm—no 2Lt’s matched. Only 5 selects for EM were 2Lt. Obviously lots of 2Lt’s matched in primary care where things are way less competitive and students can get a spot.

There certainly are SOME students matching into some specialties, but obviously there are WAY more people doing GMO’s than there used to be in the AF. Looks like many, if not most, AF HPSP students who do not go into primary care are looking at GMO time.

Deferred=civilian institution, civilian pay, no additional committment
Civilian Sponsored=civilian institution, military pay, additional committment
 
in the past 4 years since i've been collecting this data, this is the very 1st year where they have deferred Family practice slots. There are normally not enough applicants to go around, however, this year there have been a much larger than anticipated number of Air Force FP applicants.

Each year is different tho
 
HumptyDumptyMil said:
So are most returning GMO's still ranked 2Lt even after a some years of service?? I saw lots of 2Lt matching in residencies other than transitional year or PGY1.
Click to expand...

No, all of the LT's are med students. The CPT's and higher ranking people are the gmo's.
 
Mirror Form said:
No, all of the LT's are med students. The CPT's and higher ranking people are the gmo's.
Click to expand...


Not necessarily.

From our experience I would venture to say that a good portion of the Captains, Majors, Lt. Colonels on the list are either 1) finished with residency and, after doing a year or a few of payback want to subspecialize or 2)previously did residency training in a different specialty and want to switch (and, thus start another residency anew).

That's not all of them - but you should consider that there are more reasons for higher ranking officers to apply for residency and fellowship slots.

🙂
 
radspouse said:
Not necessarily.

From our experience I would venture to say that a good portion of the Captains, Majors, Lt. Colonels on the list are either 1) finished with residency and, after doing a year or a few of payback want to subspecialize or 2)previously did residency training in a different specialty and want to switch (and, thus start another residency anew).

That's not all of them - but you should consider that there are more reasons for higher ranking officers to apply for residency and fellowship slots.

🙂
Click to expand...

One FP attending at my base got a fellowship (sports) and two are going into derm. Guess they didn't like FP for some reason:laugh:
 
thanks for the quick response. Another reason to push even harder to be the best! We'll see how the scene changes in several years...
 
Busted my ass for four years. Ranked #1 out of 200 students in my class with a 4.0 (I think around 5 had similar grades). Step I and Step II were both > 250. Prior military experience (did not count for points, though, I believe- I joined when I was 17). Had a tad of research experience with the AF. Did well on my away rotation at an AFB.

Wanted a civilian spot in general surgery (I know, rough, but that was after ruling out neurosurgery with AF competitiveness a factor). Had interviews from Massachusettes General, University of Washington, Mayo Clinic, Emory, Stanford, Northwestern, etc.

Both of my parents had cancer (in remission, thankfully). Wanted to stay close to them (or go somewhere they could move), and if not that, I have a girlfriend (marriage material) of 1 year I wanted to match near me. I felt the whole world was open to me.

So I got a military general surgery slot. Not in a bad location, but it was, oddly enough, not the first military program I ranked, either.

I did everything I could. Maybe I should've done more research, but I think in the end there were the Gods of the Selection Board and they ruled me.
Click to expand...


Unfortunately, you were a victim of your own success—too good for the AF program directors to pass up. It's just a totally different ballgame with the Air Force match. They want you to play, but never tell you the rules.

Don’t be too bummed about the AF residency in general surgery. I don’t know where you matched, but most of the programs have given up on training residents and send them to civilian programs—so the training may still be good (albeit not particularly prestigious). You may be pleasantly surprised by Wright-Pat, where the case volume is excellent at the civilian hospitals and there are zero out-of-town rotations. I believe Travis has given up on surgical training as well, with residents going to UC Davis. Wilford Hall residents are now getting about 75% of their cases at UTSA. The downside is that there is a bumpy road ahead as they try to merge with at the BAMC program, which refuses to integrate with the nearby civilian hospitals.

The only problem would be if you matched at Keesler. I can’t imagine doing surgical residency at a hospital which is just now trying to rebuild from scratch—let alone live on the devastated Gulf Coast. I cannot fathom why the AF wants to restart yet another marginal quality surgical residency at a tiny community hospital. No one wants to be there—not residents…not staff…no one. I personally know one of the former staff there who is fighting tooth and nail not to go back. If you matched there, I would think seriously about one-year internship and GMO.

Good luck.
 
Croooz said:
Did you miss post #6?
Click to expand...

no, i read the post.

Just because some self-proclaimed top notch(no offense) said he didnt get what he wanted doesn't mean i'm going to do a half-ass job and COMPLETELY ruin my chances of getting into the residency of my choice.:meanie:
 
doesn't mean i'm going to do a half-ass job
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heh... As we used to say to the ate-up, starry-eyed "hooah" types (mostly to poke them in the eye):

"If the minimums weren't good enough, they wouldn't be minimums, would they?"
 
HumptyDumptyMil said:
no, i read the post.

Just because some self-proclaimed top notch(no offense) said he didnt get what he wanted doesn't mean i'm going to do a half-ass job and COMPLETELY ruin my chances of getting into the residency of my choice.:meanie:
Click to expand...
I can tell you that 46 is telling the truth about his numbers. I don't think that anyone is saying that you should ruin your numbers but the fact is that the very best of applicants are the victims in the AF selection board.
 
HumptyDumptyMil said:
no, i read the post.

Just because some self-proclaimed top notch(no offense) said he didnt get what he wanted doesn't mean i'm going to do a half-ass job and COMPLETELY ruin my chances of getting into the residency of my choice.:meanie:
Click to expand...

Nope it just means that you'll do a bang up job and then the military will put you in an "awesome" GMO billet and ruin your chances. 😉
 
mitchconnie said:
Unfortunately, you were a victim of your own success—too good for the AF program directors to pass up. It's just a totally different ballgame with the Air Force match. They want you to play, but never tell you the rules.

Don’t be too bummed about the AF residency in general surgery. I don’t know where you matched, but most of the programs have given up on training residents and send them to civilian programs—so the training may still be good (albeit not particularly prestigious). You may be pleasantly surprised by Wright-Pat, where the case volume is excellent at the civilian hospitals and there are zero out-of-town rotations. I believe Travis has given up on surgical training as well, with residents going to UC Davis. Wilford Hall residents are now getting about 75% of their cases at UTSA. The downside is that there is a bumpy road ahead as they try to merge with at the BAMC program, which refuses to integrate with the nearby civilian hospitals.

The only problem would be if you matched at Keesler. I can’t imagine doing surgical residency at a hospital which is just now trying to rebuild from scratch—let alone live on the devastated Gulf Coast. I cannot fathom why the AF wants to restart yet another marginal quality surgical residency at a tiny community hospital. No one wants to be there—not residents…not staff…no one. I personally know one of the former staff there who is fighting tooth and nail not to go back. If you matched there, I would think seriously about one-year internship and GMO.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

My understanding is the AF has partnered with the University of MS in Jackson to help train their Keesler residents.
 
That is correct. The general surgery program is being reconstituted as a sattelite program of the University of MS. NOT a fully integrated program, but a totally separate "Gulf Coast Consortium" program sponsored by the University. But here's some interesting info for for those interested in AF general surgery--the program has not yet been accredited by the RRC (it apparently requires a reapplication as a new program). This year they have accepted four categorical residents into a program which at this point has no accredited positions. People who know the situation are very doubtful that the program will EVER receive permission to train four categorical residents per year. There just is not the volume there to support it.

Just for comparison, the new COMBINED, Wilford Hall--BAMC surgery residency (scheduled to start in 2008) had a preliminary RRC visit which suggested that they would likely be approved for four categorical surgery positions. If one of the largest institutions in the DOD (Wilford/BAMC) can only train four residents, than Keesler will never be approved for more than two. Good luck to those who matched there--you will need it.
 
Deferred=civilian institution, civilian pay, no additional committment
Civilian Sponsored=civilian institution, military pay, additional committment[/QUOTE]

So all of the transitional years on that list were heading to a civilian institution? Or are they headed to be a AF GMO?

If you dont get one of your residency choices, does the military use you as a Flight Doc or do they tell you to go find your own residency? And are you guys saying that Flight Docs are 2LT the whole time until they match? Thanks.
 
HPSP Dr said:
Deferred=civilian institution, civilian pay, no additional committment
Civilian Sponsored=civilian institution, military pay, additional committment
Click to expand...

So all of the transitional years on that list were heading to a civilian institution? Or are they headed to be a AF GMO?

If you dont get one of your residency choices, does the military use you as a Flight Doc or do they tell you to go find your own residency? And are you guys saying that Flight Docs are 2LT the whole time until they match? Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Wow, asking questions about a REALLY old list.

Deferment - correct, no military money, no additional time owed.
Sponsored - Full military pay and allowances, additional time owed for PGY2+ years.

The one year deferments will be GMOs of some flavor. Once you graduate from medical school you are promoted to O3.
 
Hey,
Sorry if this is too simplistic - I am confused about how to interpret the list.
What do you all think are my chances for deferment next year for psychiatry? I am AOA, top 5 in my class, 4.0, Step 1 245.
I looks like most civilian sponsored or deferred spots went to Captains - does this mean they already did a GMO? Will I be stuck with Wright-Patt, Trippler, or San Antonio?
Any insight would be awesome. Thanks!
 
yay4thyear said:
Hey,
Sorry if this is too simplistic - I am confused about how to interpret the list.
What do you all think are my chances for deferment next year for psychiatry? I am AOA, top 5 in my class, 4.0, Step 1 245.
I looks like most civilian sponsored or deferred spots went to Captains - does this mean they already did a GMO? Will I be stuck with Wright-Patt, Trippler, or San Antonio?
Any insight would be awesome. Thanks!
Click to expand...

The list is a little confusing too. Does anyone know the probability of getting a civilian deferment for internal medicine via the AF? The match list had only 3 deferred spots in internal medicine, but 60 deferred for a transitional year. Could you request a transitional year, and afterwards request another two years deferment to complete a IM residency? What if one is married to someone who must be in a particular location during the time one would be in residency? Thanks!
 
Last edited:
fior1 said:
The list is a little confusing too. Does anyone know the probability of getting a civilian deferment for internal medicine via the AF? The match list had only 3 deferred spots in internal medicine, but 60 deferred for a transitional year. Could you request a transitional year, and afterwards request another two years deferment to complete a IM residency? What if one is married to someone who must be in a particular location during the time one would be in residency? Thanks!
Click to expand...

You've essentially asked this same question on another thread...and had a few answers. The specialty leaders and consultants get together every year and say how many active spots and deferred spots they think they will need. Just because they have Civ. Def spots doesn't mean they will fill them.

This is old data you're looking at. The numbers I gave before were last years numbers but they don't publish match results.

If they did you could see how often people have been granted defferred spots in the past but that doesn't guarantee anything for future matches. It all boils down to the needs each year.

They will try to help people with family concerns for residency but they can't always be accomadating. Unless someone on here is involved with AF IM GME they probably wont have any more specific details. Look up the AF IM consultant and ask them what the odds are. They can't release match data but they might be able to give you an idea of how you would fare.

You're premed, correct? You still have the option to avoid this headache and not take the scholarship.
 
Thanks for the tips and encouragement. I've already signed, so just trying to figure out how to make the scholarship work with family considerations. Thanks.
 
fior1 said:
Thanks for the tips and encouragement. I've already signed, so just trying to figure out how to make the scholarship work with family considerations. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Well a lot can change in a few years as far as your specialty interest and we have a few specialties that have training in the capital area.

You probably wont get a straight answer from anyone as far as odds and at this point you're too far out to be worried about it. Do well in school and when you're looking at ADTs you can start asking around about how many defer and looking into your options. Just don't get your hopes up...people sometimes have to spend years away from spouses...it sucks but its a possible outcome you need to be prepared for.
 
so are there any tips/advice/info on how we (AF HPSP) go about applying to residency via military match? Just had a few questions about it all,

1. I know the application is due mid September, but not sure what kind of things go on it.
2. The mandatory PD interview, is that something we set up on our own? How do we go about doing that?
3. What LORs are to be used in your packet, the same ones you'd use otherwise for the civilian programs that you're applying to?
4. Ideally I hope to get a civilian deferral, am I right to assume that the number of deferral openings are mainly claimed by hpsp medical students, since USUHS students are obligated to do a military residency, and the chances of re-deferral, I'm assuming is slim, as a GMO coming back from 2-3 years active duty since the AF can re-up your contract if you accept the military residency? Just out of curiousity, just want to know what I'm up against...even though it probably doesn't change anything, I guess I'm looking for some optimism.

any tips on how to approach the next 5 months will be much appreciated.
 
River Rat said:
so are there any tips/advice/info on how we (AF HPSP) go about applying to residency via military match? Just had a few questions about it all,

1. I know the application is due mid September, but not sure what kind of things go on it.
2. The mandatory PD interview, is that something we set up on our own? How do we go about doing that?
3. What LORs are to be used in your packet, the same ones you'd use otherwise for the civilian programs that you're applying to?
4. Ideally I hope to get a civilian deferral, am I right to assume that the number of deferral openings are mainly claimed by hpsp medical students, since USUHS students are obligated to do a military residency, and the chances of re-deferral, I'm assuming is slim, as a GMO coming back from 2-3 years active duty since the AF can re-up your contract if you accept the military residency? Just out of curiousity, just want to know what I'm up against...even though it probably doesn't change anything, I guess I'm looking for some optimism.

any tips on how to approach the next 5 months will be much appreciated.
Click to expand...

It's been a few years since I went through the process, but seems like sometime near the end of 3rd year I got an email from the AFIT folks directing me to the appropriate website (or you can go directly to the AFMS Public site via google). Lots of good info there, and although minor things will change from year to year you could probably take a look now and get the answers to your questions straight from the source. I will say that the PD interview you do set up on your own, ideally during your away rotation at that site but can be done over the phone if there are unavoidable circumstances.

As far as predicting the type of training, I'm attaching the 2011 JSGMESB projections for reference. Looking at ER for example, you can see that it was about 50/50 between military training and deferred. Folks with a GMO tour under their belts will have more points for the SB, and the folks with the most points will be selected for military training, so you're correct that the chances are very much in the favor of med school grads (for most specialties) for a civ deferred spot if that's what their preference is. Unfortunately being an academic superstar actually lowers your chances of getting what you want i.e. deferred... fyi just the first of many ways the military rewards mediocrity and fucks over the rest of us.
 

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