given UofK screwup, heard that ucsf, hopkins, and virginiamason didn't fill........

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yeah, just glad i fully matched and likely my #1 and if not definitely my #2 program.

I can actually understand ucsf not filling. My interview day was a very negative experience. I absolutely hated it and the leadership or lack thereof within the program. They blackball residents and push residents out who don't score high enough. All that crap about "not leaving senior elective scheduling up to residents because its too important" is just crap. The real reason they do that is because they NEED those senior residents in certain rotations to cover those cases. Also, perhaps not everyone going into anesthesiology wants to hear about how anesthesiology will be dead in 15 years and we should all be spending our time taking over the ICUs. Talk about a place out of touch with the mainstream private practice model. Also, living in san fran isn't exactly an appealing idea to anyone with less than a six figure income. Oh well, even after interviewing at 14 programs, the only program I didn't rank at all was ucsf, fwiw.

As for hopkins and virginia mason, I cant for the life of me figure those two out, maybe someone in the administrative staff made a mistake like at Univ of Kent. That's the only thing I could think of to account for those two.
 
It happens every year. It's not shocking at all. Two years ago it was Vanderbilt and Wake Forest if I'm not mistaken. Unfortunately it's a numbers game. Sometimes programs don't rank enough people. Whether they do this b/c they made a mistake, only ranked people they truly wanted, or interviewed less b/c they start to get over confident big name programs sometimes don't fill. I don't think anyone would argue that the Vanderbilt's, Wake Forest's, Yale's, Hopkin's ect are by any means declining or programs in transition. It's just part of the process.
 
just wondering... but do you think that UCSF would rather not match that one position since they have 21 filled?

VM wouldn't have that luxury for sure...
 
MD/TX2006 said:
just wondering... but do you think that UCSF would rather not match that one position since they have 21 filled?

VM wouldn't have that luxury for sure...
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I would imagine given my impression from my interview day there that that will be the ucsf party line. Unfortunately, that's baloney. Why would you put a position into the match if you didn't "care" about filling it? If they had out of match people or mdphd folks wanting to fill in the program they would have taken care of that ahead of time. My personal opinion is that like blaze said they probably got an inflated image of themselves given the general competitiveness of this year's applicants and got caught not ranking enough people. Oh well.
 
redherring said:
I would imagine given my impression from my interview day there that that will be the ucsf party line. Unfortunately, that's baloney. Why would you put a position into the match if you didn't "care" about filling it? If they had out of match people or mdphd folks wanting to fill in the program they would have taken care of that ahead of time. My personal opinion is that like blaze said they probably got an inflated image of themselves given the general competitiveness of this year's applicants and got caught not ranking enough people. Oh well.
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Judging from what Dr. Mittman has said on here re: hopkins, they dont rank everyone that interviews there, and they told us during the interview that it was a 90-95% likelihood that if we ranked Hopkins to match, that we would match there. I assume that they know that there is the chance they wont fill and they would rather grab someone outside the match than take an applicant they dont feel 100% comfortable with.
 
i did an away rotation at ucsf and after talking to rosen and miller, both said that they only rank people who they want in the program. miller also said that if they didn't fill the numbers (like this year's case), they would not scramble in anyone.

good luck to that class. they already work to the bone, and one less resident can't help.
 
Idiopathic said:
Judging from what Dr. Mittman has said on here re: hopkins, they dont rank everyone that interviews there, and they told us during the interview that it was a 90-95% likelihood that if we ranked Hopkins to match, that we would match there. I assume that they know that there is the chance they wont fill and they would rather grab someone outside the match than take an applicant they dont feel 100% comfortable with.
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true but...

like was said above...if you really dont plan on 'filling' all the spots, why offer them through the NRMP match process? Kind of seems like a waste of time on both sides. if you really want to have the luxury of 'picking and choosing' why not just set aside spots to be taken by current PGY1s, MDPHDs, etc?

THere were definitely enough ppl trying to match this year. How many thousands applied! It's obvious that schools in 'highly competitive' specialities (as anesth has now become) dont fill PARTIALLY atleast because of the reputation they've attained 🙄
 
ripped cheese said:
i did an away rotation at ucsf and after talking to rosen and miller, both said that they only rank people who they want in the program. miller also said that if they didn't fill the numbers (like this year's case), they would not scramble in anyone.

good luck to that class. they already work to the bone, and one less resident can't help.
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Exactly as what I was concerned about with their program.

The program knows that the residents are overworked and yet they have this attitude of "even if we don't fill we will not scramble in anybody."

Just as I had heard and suspected. Are they saying that pd's and chair's at other programs are ranking applicants that they wouldn't want but because their ucsf they don't have to do that? Ha! Same attitude, same story that ive heard from multiple people about ucsf. Screw over the entire entering resident class by not filling or scrambling work hours be damned! 😴
 
ripped cheese said:
i did an away rotation at ucsf and after talking to rosen and miller, both said that they only rank people who they want in the program. miller also said that if they didn't fill the numbers (like this year's case), they would not scramble in anyone.

good luck to that class. they already work to the bone, and one less resident can't help.
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that's bull$hit. while helping a friend scramble today i checked the updated list around 4:00 and UCSF was no longer listed so they did fill their spot with a scrambling applicant.

oh how the mighty have fallen :laugh:
 
I did an away rotation at VM and was told that last year they had gone down to number 12 on there list to match all 8 spots, otherwise known as hella competitive. I wonder if they got too picky, or maybe a mistake?

anyway, I have them as number one on my list so I guess if I dont match there then I really am one pathetic loser, just like everyone said, sh****t.

holdin out
 
A dissenting opinion, perhaps. I actually applaud programs such as UCSF and Hopkins for ranking the candidates they want and not necessarily those available. In the same manner that some of us left excellent programs off our list because they didn't feel like a good fit, so too did these programs select only applicants they thought would be good for their program. And given the tenures of Dr. Rosen and Dr. Mittman, it's clear that this was a conscious decision and not the mark of a new PD. Now whether I would be OK with the increased workload is up for debate, but it makes me at least feel proud that anesthesia has acheived the esteem to be this selective and not necessarily a service-based department. I look forward to working and partying hard with my new colleagues in 2007. And now on to March Madness, bring it!
 
i think the word has been getting around that ucsf anesthesia though among the big boys in terms of name, isn't for everyone. i heard from a few students who did sub-i's there, that after the rotation they knew they didn't want to go there. some reasons were that residents were overworked, and that some faculty had their heads so deep up their a$$ that they risked a large bowel perforation with subsequent bowel spillage.
 
ThinkFast007 said:
true but...

like was said above...if you really dont plan on 'filling' all the spots, why offer them through the NRMP match process? Kind of seems like a waste of time on both sides. if you really want to have the luxury of 'picking and choosing' why not just set aside spots to be taken by current PGY1s, MDPHDs, etc?

THere were definitely enough ppl trying to match this year. How many thousands applied! It's obvious that schools in 'highly competitive' specialities (as anesth has now become) dont fill PARTIALLY atleast because of the reputation they've attained 🙄
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JHU ranks something like 150 candidates for their 17(?) spots. If they didnt fill, its because ther candidates chose not to rank them higher, not because they can "pick and choose".
 
Idiopathic said:
JHU ranks something like 150 candidates for their 17(?) spots. If they didnt fill, its because ther candidates chose not to rank them higher, not because they can "pick and choose".
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How do you know that they rank 150?
 
blaze said:
How do you know that they rank 150?
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idio's got these supposed magic power of asking PDs all sorts of infomration and magically getting the 'correct' answers to them 🙄

trust at ur own risk.

...

but back tot he OP ...gosh that friggin sucks. i mean perhaps Univ of Kent made an HONEST mistake (which we are all prone to).

but crap! that's a huge and painful mistake. what if students had to 'scramble' today unnecessarily.

yikes....too bad med students are too poor to initiate lawsuits. but at the same time i feel for that person at u of kent who made the mistake 😕
 
ThinkFast007 said:
idio's got these supposed magic power of asking PDs all sorts of infomration and magically getting the 'correct' answers to them 🙄

trust at ur own risk.

QUOTE]

Agree. I don't think anyone has the answer to why they didn't fill except for the PD at Hopkins. All programs get to choose who they want. That is why many of us didn't get interviews at places we may have liked. We weren't picked. Hopkins,UCSF,VM etc definately gets to pick who they want. In the end it comes down to how a small percentage of the total applicants who applied to a particular program decided to rank. Watch the brush strokes!
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this all is here no there. lol..as long as we've matched
 
ThinkFast007 said:
this all is here no there. lol..as long as we've matched
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Word1
 
I'm curious...
what was the UofK screw up?
 
Yesterday the PD at UK found out that they had inadvertantly submitted the PGY-2 list as the PGY-1 list and vice versa. GIven that the PGY-1 list was for 8 people and the advanced list for 1 they ended up with 8 unmatched spots and multiple applicants which had been looking to come here will end up elsewhere. This was truly a bad mistake and ended up hurting the program as well as a number of applicants. UK is and has done everything in their power to fix it but the match is the match. Hopefully everything will work out in the end. UK is a great anesthesia program where I have been as happy as I can imagine being. Any thoughts that this was anything other than a terrible mistake are COMPLETELY false and really just silly.
 
blaze said:
ThinkFast007 said:
idio's got these supposed magic power of asking PDs all sorts of infomration and magically getting the 'correct' answers to them 🙄

trust at ur own risk.

QUOTE]

Agree. I don't think anyone has the answer to why they didn't fill except for the PD at Hopkins. All programs get to choose who they want. That is why many of us didn't get interviews at places we may have liked. We weren't picked. Hopkins,UCSF,VM etc definately gets to pick who they want. In the end it comes down to how a small percentage of the total applicants who applied to a particular program decided to rank. Watch the brush strokes!
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Did you interview at JHU? I did, and Dr Mittman pretty much told us that they interview 180-220 people (I dont remember exactly) and rank 80-90% of them. So if they dont fill, it isnt because they 'picked and chose'. He told us exactly this "If you rank us to match, then you have a 90% chance of ending up here, based on what happened last year". He wasnt disappointed by that, and it wasnt inferred or uttered in secrecy, he told us all.

edit: obviously if you are talking about interviews thats a different story. One of the other candidates told me that they had a very high USMLE cutoff this year, and they didnt look below that. I have no idea if thats true, but i guess you could say that is "picking and choosing".
Click to expand...
 
kron13 said:
Yesterday the PD at UK found out that they had inadvertantly submitted the PGY-2 list as the PGY-1 list and vice versa. GIven that the PGY-1 list was for 8 people and the advanced list for 1 they ended up with 8 unmatched spots and multiple applicants which had been looking to come here will end up elsewhere. This was truly a bad mistake and ended up hurting the program as well as a number of applicants. UK is and has done everything in their power to fix it but the match is the match. Hopefully everything will work out in the end. UK is a great anesthesia program where I have been as happy as I can imagine being. Any thoughts that this was anything other than a terrible mistake are COMPLETELY false and really just silly.
Click to expand...

This is the worst case scenario. While I'd hate to think someone gets hurt over this, I expect someone to be fired. Too important (millions of dollars invested) to drop the ball like that.
 
kron13 said:
Yesterday the PD at UK found out that they had inadvertantly submitted the PGY-2 list as the PGY-1 list and vice versa. GIven that the PGY-1 list was for 8 people and the advanced list for 1 they ended up with 8 unmatched spots and multiple applicants which had been looking to come here will end up elsewhere. This was truly a bad mistake and ended up hurting the program as well as a number of applicants. UK is and has done everything in their power to fix it but the match is the match. Hopefully everything will work out in the end. UK is a great anesthesia program where I have been as happy as I can imagine being. Any thoughts that this was anything other than a terrible mistake are COMPLETELY false and really just silly.
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what i don't understand is why make two separate lists for advanced and categorical spots? if they just rank the students the way they want them, then everything would've worked out with just one list. perhaps i'm missing something...
 
Broken Ankles said:
what i don't understand is why make two separate lists for advanced and categorical spots? if they just rank the students the way they want them, then everything would've worked out with just one list. perhaps i'm missing something...
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They have two lists because some people only apply for advanced standing (i.e. did an internship in something else and decided to switch, or are obligated to do an internship else where), there are really all kinds of reasons.

I'm in the senior class at UK though, and I can tell you this has really hurt (though not intentionally) a lot of people in my class. Several people from here ranked UK #1 and were really excited when they matched only to find out that it was somewhere else. Also, apparently, NRMP is holding them to their match contracts regardless of the mix up.
 
Stephanieukmed said:
They have two lists because some people only apply for advanced standing (i.e. did an internship in something else and decided to switch, or are obligated to do an internship else where), there are really all kinds of reasons.

I'm in the senior class at UK though, and I can tell you this has really hurt (though not intentionally) a lot of people in my class. Several people from here ranked UK #1 and were really excited when they matched only to find out that it was somewhere else. Also, apparently, NRMP is holding them to their match contracts regardless of the mix up.
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wow...that sucks..even if u ranked UK number 1.

but i mean, i guess they cant change it, or else theyd have to recalculate everything and then 'match' day would be delayed...

gosh, what's with our class ppl!!! freakin reminding me of the AMCAS mess four years ago! it's like our class is plagued or something.
 
What I find funny is that they reimburse anyone who flys there to interview. That's crazy. $20,000 to fill your spots with the unmatched applicants. Plus everyone who ranked Kentucky number one is probably from there or very close so they are all getting royally screwed. I wonder who made the list because whoever it was should be fired.
 
blaze said:
How do you know that they rank 150?
Click to expand...


PDs tend to reveal more to the top picks and these they know during the interview day. I know top programs list 120+ (was told flat out that if I ranked a couple programs #1 I would match, another siad "based on where we'll rank you you would have matched last year"), they screen in the pre-interview stage and only decide not to list a few people that come for interviews. Places that tend not to fill year after year on the other hand are a mix of only ranking 50-60 people vs. the program is given a bad rep by residents on interview day and nobody that interviews ranks them highly.
 
Stephanieukmed said:
They have two lists because some people only apply for advanced standing (i.e. did an internship in something else and decided to switch, or are obligated to do an internship else where), there are really all kinds of reasons.

I'm in the senior class at UK though, and I can tell you this has really hurt (though not intentionally) a lot of people in my class. Several people from here ranked UK #1 and were really excited when they matched only to find out that it was somewhere else. Also, apparently, NRMP is holding them to their match contracts regardless of the mix up.
Click to expand...


MATCH VIOLATION!!!!!!! No one should know that stuff today.
 
BubbleHead said:
MATCH VIOLATION!!!!!!! No one should know that stuff today.
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I'm guessing that many of these students ranked UK #1 and felt solid about their choice. When they heard about the mistake on Monday, they put two and two together and realized it was impossible for them to have matched at Kentucky. I don't think they necessarily know where they matched though (other than it can't be their number one).
 
no oxygen said:
I'm guessing that many of these students ranked UK #1 and felt solid about their choice. When they heard about the mistake on Monday, they put two and two together and realized it was impossible for them to have matched at Kentucky. I don't think they necessarily know where they matched though (other than it can't be their number one).
Click to expand...

Everyone that I have talked to figured it out because UK only matched one of the catagorical spots, so if they matched they assumed it wasn't here. No match violation, just a bunch of upset med students.
 
Sorry if this sounds crass, i know it was an accidental mistake, but I'd say these students should be happy and relieved they didn't match at a place that makes such serious mistakes. Same thing could happen with the job application process post-residency, who knows? Residents' files, evals, LORs, etc, could accidentally get switched. I'm appalled actually. This screw up has probably affected every anesthesia applicant participating in the NRMP in some way.
 
I have to agree with Idio on this one, I am amazed that Hopkins did not fill. I interviewed there, and absolutely loved it, the residents were all cool cats, and did not seem overworked in the least (worked hard, yes, but not overworked). I ranked them #2, and had it not been for some family dynamics that led me to rank another program higher, I might have done things differently. Anyway, whoever gets to scramble into the open spot there is going to be stoked. Dr. Mittman did give our interview group the same info, stated that if we ranked them #1, we had roughly a 90% chance of matching. Curious, quite curious. Early congrats for tomorrow all, enjoy.
 
chicamedica said:
Sorry if this sounds crass, i know it was an accidental mistake, but I'd say these students should be happy and relieved they didn't match at a place that makes such serious mistakes. Same thing could happen with the job application process post-residency, who knows? Residents' files, evals, LORs, etc, could accidentally get switched. I'm appalled actually. This screw up has probably affected every anesthesia applicant participating in the NRMP in some way.
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exactly. This invariably cost 10 people spots in the match and thus forcing them to scramble. This also affects so many other applicants that we will never truly know the exact ramifications of this blunder.
 
ADT said:
I have to agree with Idio on this one, I am amazed that Hopkins did not fill. I interviewed there, and absolutely loved it, the residents were all cool cats, and did not seem overworked in the least (worked hard, yes, but not overworked). I ranked them #2, and had it not been for some family dynamics that led me to rank another program higher, I might have done things differently. Anyway, whoever gets to scramble into the open spot there is going to be stoked. Dr. Mittman did give our interview group the same info, stated that if we ranked them #1, we had roughly a 90% chance of matching. Curious, quite curious. Early congrats for tomorrow all, enjoy.
Click to expand...

thanks for backing me up. family concerns kept me from ranking jhu higher, but id certainly be thrilled to train there and im sure the lucky scrambler is in heaven right now.
 
lawdawg said:
exactly. This invariably cost 10 people spots in the match and thus forcing them to scramble. This also affects so many other applicants that we will never truly know the exact ramifications of this blunder.
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agreed. the nrmp should have recognized this mistake, contacted uk and re-run the match (it takes 6 minutes). it had to be obvious,
 
Idiopathic said:
agreed. the nrmp should have recognized this mistake, contacted uk and re-run the match (it takes 6 minutes). it had to be obvious,
Click to expand...

Totally agree. It must have been after everyone was told whether or not the matched though, so it would have been a big to-do. I think the fair thing to do would be to rerun it, still. Just like with the urology match last year. I'm gonna be happy at any of my 7, but there are people out there who were majorly screwed over.
 
i dont think so, they do quality control and they should have noticed that uk filled none of their advanced spots before monday.
 
Idiopathic said:
i dont think so, they do quality control and they should have noticed that uk filled none of their advanced spots before monday.
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Well in that case, yeah, it's ******ed that they didn't rerun the algorithm. Wasn't it for this reason that we were made to wait a whole month to find out the results???

Perhaps NRMP just thought nobody wanted UK this year 🙄
 
lawdawg said:
exactly. This invariably cost 10 people spots in the match and thus forcing them to scramble. This also affects so many other applicants that we will never truly know the exact ramifications of this blunder.
Click to expand...

It also caused applicants who ranked UK #1 and would have matched there, to match at program B, thereby costing someone else a spot at program B, and matching that person at program C, etc etc etc. it's an exponential domino effect.
 
chicamedica said:
It also caused applicants who ranked UK #1 and would have matched there, to match at program B, thereby costing someone else a spot at program B, and matching that person at program C, etc etc etc. it's an exponential domino effect.
Click to expand...

Yup. I wish they could humor us all and rerun the match to see how things would have turned out. I'm curious to see what % of applicants would have matched at other programs, I'm guessing a good number. Not only is this a black eye for the program nationally, but their next year's class should theoretically be subpar, which sucks for the entire department.
 
lawdawg said:
Yup. I wish they could humor us all and rerun the match to see how things would have turned out. I'm curious to see what % of applicants would have matched at other programs, I'm guessing a good number. Not only is this a black eye for the program nationally, but their next year's class should theoretically be subpar, which sucks for the entire department.
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I think an absolute disaster (worst case scenario) like this one will affect the entire department for a lot more than 1 year. They would be lucky if only this year's class is affected.
 
This is similar to what happened a few years ago to UTSW's radiology program. In the scramble, they went by a first come first serve philosophy and according to a friend of mine a year behind that class, they have suffered for it.
 
Idiopathic said:
Judging from what Dr. Mittman has said on here re: hopkins, they dont rank everyone that interviews there, and they told us during the interview that it was a 90-95% likelihood that if we ranked Hopkins to match, that we would match there.
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I would like to see the math behind his statement--they must rank only a small percentage of the total number who are interviewed for the 13 positions.
 
Idiopathic said:
JHU ranks something like 150 candidates for their 17(?) spots. If they didnt fill, its because ther candidates chose not to rank them higher, not because they can "pick and choose".
Click to expand...


Idiopathic is wrong on both numbers: >17 spots and <<< 150 ranked on the list. We were simply aiming for people that would be a good match in our program.
Congratulations to all of you on matching, regardless of where you do your residency, in the end we all will be Anesthesiologists and colleagues.
 
Hopkinsres said:
Idiopathic is wrong on both numbers: >17 spots and <<< 150 ranked on the list. We were simply aiming for people that would be a good match in our program.
Congratulations to all of you on matching, regardless of where you do your residency, in the end we all will be Anesthesiologists and colleagues.
Click to expand...

Exactly 17 spots listed with the NRMP (at least when i submitted my ROL) which are the ones that are included in ranking. Im not arguing that you have 24 or so residents in the class, but not in the match.
 
Danger Man said:
I would like to see the math behind his statement--they must rank only a small percentage of the total number who are interviewed for the 13 positions.
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I think that the competition is so high at that level. Look how many people are on this board, as a composite. How many had JHU number 1? Not many, I would reason that, with competing against MGH. BID, Columbia, UCSF, Penn, etc. that its harder for the big names to get exactly who they want. I totally believe they would rather have an unfilled spot or two than match somebody they didnt like, but I would be very surprised also if they didnt rank 120 people...I guess that is <<<150, which is probably closer to the number that were interviewed, but I was ballparking it.

Regardless, we have an incredible amount of people getting their #1 choice here, I hope it isnt just self-selction and we arent hearing from people getting their 2 or 3. Matching is succeeding, in my eyes. The rest is just gravy.
 
Idiopathic said:
I think that the competition is so high at that level. Look how many people are on this board, as a composite. How many had JHU number 1? Not many, I would reason that, with competing against MGH. BID, Columbia, UCSF, Penn, etc. that its harder for the big names to get exactly who they want. I totally believe they would rather have an unfilled spot or two than match somebody they didnt like, but I would be very surprised also if they didnt rank 120 people...I guess that is <<<150, which is probably closer to the number that were interviewed, but I was ballparking it.

Regardless, we have an incredible amount of people getting their #1 choice here, I hope it isnt just self-selction and we arent hearing from people getting their 2 or 3. Matching is succeeding, in my eyes. The rest is just gravy.
Click to expand...

Actually I think that JHU was at the top of both "which will you rank #1" polls on this MB this year...

A little searching around the rank lists and match lists on this board and some deductive logic reveals that Hopkins is acutally A LOT more selective this year in their ranking. I don't know how many they did rank this year, but it's pretty clear that it was much less than 120, though I'm sure that was true last year.

My guess is that there is no set number from year to year...last year they may have ranked 90%, this year may be different. They know they are one of the most sought after places in the country, and can easily fill that spot with a stellar resident from another field (IM, ENT, neurosurg, GS, etc.), so they will likely not even fill it with a scrambler. The same goes for UCSF. I don't think either are too concerned about not filling, a little surprised, but they'll survive.

Congrats to all those that matched, I am close to closing out my prelim. year, and can't wait to hit the OR. 👍
 
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