parenting as an "extra-curricular activity"

LingoLaine said:

Anybody ever consider listing parenting as an "extra-curricular activity" on their AMCAS app?

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This has been discussed and is generally a bad idea. I mentioned my child in my personal statement as part of a point about medical care contact, but I wouldn't preen about having children. Most people have children at some point in their life, and very few consider themselves to be anything less than God's gift to the collective parental wisdom of the world.

LingoLaine said:

Anybody ever consider listing parenting as an "extra-curricular activity" on their AMCAS app?

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Haha, that's cute. I didn't put that down as an activity, but I did put down that I was a class parent! I don't think parenting would fall under an EC.. considering it's not extra, it's just life!

No, I never considered listing parenting as an extracurricular on AMCAS. I absolutely included being a parent in my personal statement, as that is the place to include things that have shaped you as an individual and led you to medicine, in my case becoming a parent had a huge impact on my decision.

Your extra-curricular slots are precious. They are an opportunity to stand out of the crowd. Even though parenting is the most important thing that you do, the adcoms cannot judge it in the few words that you have to explain yourself.

Good parenting means so many things to so many different people. Being a good parent could mean anything from "Adopted 10 orphans after the hurricane in Haiti and support them by scrubbing floors." to "Knocked up 3 girls during my senior year in high school and am faithful in paying my court-ordered child-support."

The admissions committee at A.T. Still (Kirksville) campus just talked to us this week and said putting parenting down as an extracurricular activity is... eh.

We all laughed.

Don't do it. Slip it into your PS, but don't waste an EC spot on it, as Ed said.

Puh-lease... can I put down being a wife?

lizzo76 said:

Puh-lease... can I put down being a wife?

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If it is that much of a job for you, sure go right ahead.

...Side question.... You can technically put down whatever you want, no? Are we asking what would be positively received by the admissions folks?

I just said folks

ejw5075 said:

...Side question.... You can technically put down whatever you want, no? Are we asking what would be positively received by the admissions folks?

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Of course you can put anything you want. It would certainly not be positively received.

Pons Asinorum said:

Of course you can put anything you want. It would certainly not be positively received.

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Good to know.

ejw5075 said:

If it is that much of a job for you, sure go right ahead.

...Side question.... You can technically put down whatever you want, no? Are we asking what would be positively received by the admissions folks?

I just said folks

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Parents really need to get over themselves.

I spend a lot of time caring for my cats. Maybe I should include that.

lizzo76 said:

Parents really need to get over themselves.

I spend a lot of time caring for my cats. Maybe I should include that.

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Yeah, cats require a great amount of care, I would most definitely explain that in detail in throughout your application.

I don't think any parent here needs to "get over themselves," and I don't see how on Earth this thread could have offended you. But maybe that's because I'm not a cat person...

Chillax.

ejw5075 said:

Yeah, cats require a great amount of care, I would most definitely explain that in detail in throughout your application.

I don't think any parent here needs to "get over themselves," and I don't see how on Earth this thread could have offended you. But maybe that's because I'm not a cat person...

Chillax.

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Your comment to include "wife" as an EC if it's "that much of a job" for me implied that parenting is such a large and important job that it should be included. Maybe that's not what you meant. But as someone else said, it's just life. It's not more important or better experience than what anyone else is doing, and most people do not include life as an EC. I mean, should someone include maintaining a household budget, maintaining a home, keeping pets alive, running errands, and all the rest? No... so probably parenting is also not something to be included.

Sorry, I admit to being touchy, as I know a few people who have recently been spreading their beliefs that you're not a "real" adult until you're a parent... so where does that leave people with fertility issues? Fertility issues aside, I don't believe anyone needs to have children to be truly mature... so anyway, that's all been on my mind. People choose to have kids and then a lot of them act like they're martyrs.

lizzo76 said:

Your comment to include "wife" as an EC if it's "that much of a job" for me implied that parenting is such a large and important job that it should be included. Maybe that's not what you meant. But as someone else said, it's just life. It's not more important or better experience than what anyone else is doing, and most people do not include life as an EC. I mean, should someone include maintaining a household budget, maintaining a home, keeping pets alive, running errands, and all the rest? No... so probably parenting is also not something to be included.

Sorry, I admit to being touchy, as I know a few people who have recently been spreading their beliefs that you're not a "real" adult until you're a parent... so where does that leave people with fertility issues?

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I completely agree.

And trust me, as a parent at 16, I have been called every name in the book and people still don't see me as a real "adult," so I get the parent = adult dilemma... As for my comment about it being a job, I was simply making a joke at what I though was a joke.. u were serious and for that mistake I apologize.

ejw5075 said:

I completely agree.

And trust me, as a parent at 16, I have been called every name in the book and people still don't see me as a real "adult," so I get the parent = adult dilemma... As for my comment about it being a job, I was simply making a joke at what I though was a joke.. u were serious and for that mistake I apologize.

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Oh no, my comment about including "wife" was a joke... I thought your response was a sarcastic comment, implying that parenthood is a huge job, wife isn't, but if it's that much of a job to me, go right ahead and include it... basically I thought you were scoffing at the idea of including "wife" which cannot possibly be the amount of work "parent" is... so basically, I thought you were making a serious but sarcastic comment to my joking comment. That's why I responded to it the way I did.

(For the record, I think "parent" is more of a job than "wife" but I think they're all just life so not something for an application.)

lizzo76 said:

Oh no, my comment about including "wife" was a joke... I thought your response was a sarcastic comment, implying that parenthood is a huge job, wife isn't, but if it's that much of a job to me, go right ahead and include it... basically I thought you were scoffing at the idea of including "wife" which cannot possibly be the amount of work "parent" is... so basically, I thought you were making a serious but sarcastic comment to my joking comment. That's why I responded to it the way I did.

(For the record, I think "parent" is more of a job than "wife" but I think they're all just life so not something for an application.)

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I respect those of you who are married, single, cat lovers and those who are parents, I'll leave it at that.

I understand the "parents need to get over themselves" comment. I feel the same way when I hear people preening about their children. However, I think that childless people don't understand the way that children own your life and occupy your mind.

Even my religious life was changed by children. "Dear heavenly father, bless us this... (where are the children, what is that sound)...day and guide us ("Get down from there") in our endeavors ("Stop hitting your brother") so that we may bring glory ("Don't put that in your mouth") to your name, ("DON'T EAT YOUR BOOGERS") and make us be truly thankful. Amen.

But these experiences are core - not extra - curricular activities. Your self-judged experiences as a parent are not interesting to other people - although your children's characters after they grow up might be revealing.

EdLongshanks said:

Even my religious life was changed by children. "Dear heavenly father, bless us this... (where are the children, what is that sound)...day and guide us ("Get down from there") in our endeavors ("Stop hitting your brother") so that we may bring glory ("Don't put that in your mouth") to your name, ("DON'T EAT YOUR BOOGERS") and make us be truly thankful. Amen.

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HAHAHA. Bless us oh lord, and these thy gifts (stop poking your brother with a fork). This is too true.

I get a call from my husband while at work the other day....

"Gooby ate a balloon, should I be worried?"

"What?!?"

"We went out to breakfast and I got her a balloon, she popped it and before I could stop her, she ate it."

"Well as long as she really swallowed it and it's not in her airway, I wouldn't worry about it. There's nothing we can do..."

I'm typing this from a computer that this 3-year old knows how to turn on, log on and play with paint and solitaire. It is also covered in Sharpie. And as I'm typing this she comes up to me and says,

"Look at my nose, it's turn greem"

Oh, my head.

LingoLaine said:

Anybody ever consider listing parenting as an "extra-curricular activity" on their AMCAS app?

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Oh how I wish...

extra-curricular???? activity??????.......ahhhh NO! Parenting is a FULL-TIME JOB....not an extra anything! Put it under non-paid job!

lizzo76 said:

Parents really need to get over themselves.

I spend a lot of time caring for my cats. Maybe I should include that.

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May I offer a loan of 2 or 3 (or make than half a dozen) kids for a few days and see if you still think it is easy Oh, and they have to survive the experience!

LifeTake2 said:

May I offer a loan of 2 or 3 (or make than half a dozen) kids for a few days and see if you still think it is easy Oh, and they have to survive the experience!

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Whether it's easy or hard doesn't have any effect on whether it is relevant to an application. It isn't - not because your parenting experience doesn't reveal your character, but because it is impossible for the adcomm to gain enough information about your parenting experience to judge you. Anyone with the proper biological equipment can be a parent. That doesn't make them special. I know people who have had their parental rights terminated by the courts who believe that they should have kudus for loving their children.

LingoLaine said:

True, but being a parent is not the same as "parenting". (Note the wording I used in my original query.)

For the record, I did NOT list parenting on my own AMCAS application, precisely because I worried that an adcomm would respond just as negatively as many of you have here. That said, I think it SHOULD BE considered a valid activity. Extra-curricular to me means "beyond the school curriuculum," which is where we list many non-class activities... i.e. sports, clubs, volunteering, leadership, etc. Certainly, active parenting (not simply being a biological parent) takes up a large amount of time and energy and requires a tremendous amount of responsibility.

I know many people have listed serving as full-time care-givers for ill parents, etc. How is being the full-time parent for young people (i.e. one's children), and acting as the advocate in all aspects of their lives really any less important or worthy of mention on an application?

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I can't tell if you are seriously trying to make this argument or not. Should URM's or disadvantaged applicants include that as an EC, since it's "beyond the school curriculum?" If you don't care for your ill parent, nothing happens to you except you get written out of the will. If you don't care for your children, you get arrested. Doing things that you are legally bound to do isn't the stuff of a strong EC on your medical school primary app. Drop it.

LingoLaine said:

True, but being a parent is not the same as "parenting". (Note the wording I used in my original query.)

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No, you are correct. It isn't. Have you, personally, ever met anyone who said they were a bad parent? Since parenting is ubiquitous, how, exactly, would bragging about your parenting skills make you a more attractive candidate. This is what the application is about. It is not about patting yourself on your back.

Finally, since very, very few (I'm the only one I know) parents who are applying to medical schools have actually completed raising their children, why are they so confident that they are doing a good job? My wife and I are less self-complementary about our parenting skills than we were 5 years ago.

EdLongshanks said:

No, you are correct. It isn't. Have you, personally, ever met anyone who said they were a bad parent? Since parenting is ubiquitous, how, exactly, would bragging about your parenting skills make you a more attractive candidate. This is what the application is about. It is not about patting yourself on your back.

Finally, since very, very few (I'm the only one I know) parents who are applying to medical schools have actually completed raising their children, why are they so confident that they are doing a good job? My wife and I are less self-complementary about our parenting skills than we were 5 years ago.

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Have you seen the show Teen Mom? They are broadcasting to the world what terrible parents they are.

And just because my daughter is three years old, I know I'm doing a good job. How? She's socially adjusted, well past every developmental milestone for her age group, is overall happy and extremely healthy. I'm 100% confident that there is nothing I could do "better", I'm sure in some opinions I should stay home with her until she's in college, but there is no outcome to that situation which would be better for my daughter than my pursuing a career that shows her the importance of working hard, helping others, and educating oneself. I hope you can agree that you do not become a good parent when your child grows up but throughout the journey.

ejw5075 said:

Have you seen the show Teen Mom? They are broadcasting to the world what terrible parents they are.

And just because my daughter is three years old, I know I'm doing a good job. How? She's socially adjusted, well past every developmental milestone for her age group, is overall happy and extremely healthy. I'm 100% confident that there is nothing I could do "better", I'm sure in some opinions I should stay home with her until she's in college, but there is no outcome to that situation which would be better for my daughter than my pursuing a career that shows her the importance of working hard, helping others, and educating oneself. I hope you can agree that you do not become a good parent when your child grows up but throughout the journey.

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I'm confident that you believe that you are a good parent, and you have a good chance of being right. But you could also be a disastrous parent. There is no way to tell from the short blurb in a application. All that the adcom can tell from your short blurb on an application is that your reproductive organs were once in working order.... No, they really can't tell that because you could have adopted. So all that the adcom can tell is that a child lives with you.... No, they really can't tell that, because you could be a non-custodial parent. All that they can tell is that you have a relationship with a young human that you consider parental in nature. This reveals nothing about what kind of student or doctor that you will be.

You question is whether parenting should be included as an EC on the application. Universally you have been told that your application will be laughed at if you do this. I have given you the reason why it's laughable.

You have been responding by telling us what a great parent you are. So what?

And, BTW, if your child is only 3, then you have a lot more parenting in front of you than behind you. So far, you have done just the easy part. I'm glad that you have such a superior rocking chair technique, but talk to us again after you have figured out the proper technique for helping with homework or guiding them in their social relationships without being controlling.

EdLongshanks said:

I'm confident that you believe that you are a good parent, and you have a good chance of being right. But you could also be a disastrous parent. There is no way to tell from the short blurb in a application. All that the adcom can tell from your short blurb on an application is that your reproductive organs were once in working order.... No, they really can't tell that because you could have adopted. So all that the adcom can tell is that a child lives with you.... No, they really can't tell that, because you could be a non-custodial parent. All that they can tell is that you have a relationship with a young human that you consider parental in nature. This reveals nothing about what kind of student or doctor that you will be.

You question is whether parenting should be included as an EC on the application. Universally you have been told that your application will be laughed at if you do this. I have given you the reason why it's laughable.

You have been responding by telling us what a great parent you are. So what?

And, BTW, if your child is only 3, then you have a lot more parenting in front of you than behind you. So far, you have done just the easy part. I'm glad that you have such a superior rocking chair technique, but talk to us again after you have figured out the proper technique for helping with homework or guiding them in their social relationships without being controlling.

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This was 1) Not my question, as I did not, and would never include such a thing on an application to graduate school, and 2) I not my point in the post that you are so arrogantly responding to.

There is no point providing a real response to your comments, as a person of your grandeur would never listen to someone like me.

You may have successfully raised your children, and you may have been parent of the year, my point is that you can be a good parent regardless of how old your children are.

EdLongshanks said:

Finally, since very, very few (I'm the only one I know) parents who are applying to medical schools have actually completed raising their children, why are they so confident that they are doing a good job? My wife and I are less self-complementary about our parenting skills than we were 5 years ago.

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woah. a little off topic here. the question began as whether one should include parenting as an extracurricular activity on the AMCAS application, not whether or not parents should be able to label themselves as "good" depending on what stage in life their children are currently at.

and this paragraph of yours irks me as well:

EdLongshanks said:

And, BTW, if your child is only 3, then you have a lot more parenting in front of you than behind you. So far, you have done just the easy part. I'm glad that you have such a superior rocking chair technique, but talk to us again after you have figured out the proper technique for helping with homework or guiding them in their social relationships without being controlling.

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a little arrogant dont you think? to call someone's competent parenting skills up to the preschool years simply just "rocking chair technique?" the point is the FOUNDATION. from the moment your child is born, your parenting is setting the foundation for their later years.

are you saying that you merely need such a technique to get by as a good parent to a 3-year-old? meaning, you can meet his/her basic needs (food and shelter, kiss a "boo boo" here and there, make sure they dont cross the street without an adult, ie this "rocking chair technique") and that's enough? i think not. maybe to keep them ALIVE, sure, but that's not enough. each and every developmental stage is SO important and has its challenges. just because a 3-year-old is different in development than a 6 year old, to a 9 year old, and so on and so forth, does not mean that one stage is "better" or "easier" than the other. as your children grow, your parenting skills grow with them. they are shaped just as your child is becoming shaped into the person they will become. therefore, having competent parenting skills to a healthy, thriving 3 year old, from my POV, is setting them up for future success as well as continuing to successfully develop your parenting skills.

EJW's description of why she is a good parent is 100% valid. as a parent of a 6.5 year old, im a bit offended that you wouldn't think i should be able to deem myself a "good" parent because my daughter isn't a teenager and i don't have to "guide her through social relationships" to the same extent. every stage has its challenges. NO part of parenting is easy, especially when you are faced with adversity along the way. i have noticed new challenges arise as she began school, but because i have worked hard to be such a good parent all along, i met these challenges head on with my husband. we have grown over the years, too, and i think that every part of that growth has been important.

in no way would i ever think it is "ok" to tell a parent of say, an infant, that they aren't "good" parents yet because their child hasn't done A, B, or C.

LingoLaine said:

Anybody ever consider listing parenting as an "extra-curricular activity" on their AMCAS app?

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Don't list it. It won't help you. I understand that you consider this an accomplishment and can be proud you are managing this and accomplishing other things, but it won't play like that in the adcom room. They don't want it in your ECs, non-paid employment etc. You can work it into your essay if it's pertinent to the "why medical school" type questions, but otherwise keep it close to the vest. All adcoms want to hear is that you have a good support system in place such that this won't affect your attendance or your ability to do overnight rotations, intense hours, or matching into a residency that will make them look good at the end.

EdLongshanks said:

I understand the "parents need to get over themselves" comment. I feel the same way when I hear people preening about their children. However, I think that childless people don't understand the way that children own your life and occupy your mind.

Even my religious life was changed by children. "Dear heavenly father, bless us this... (where are the children, what is that sound)...day and guide us ("Get down from there") in our endeavors ("Stop hitting your brother") so that we may bring glory ("Don't put that in your mouth") to your name, ("DON'T EAT YOUR BOOGERS") and make us be truly thankful. Amen.

But these experiences are core - not extra - curricular activities. Your self-judged experiences as a parent are not interesting to other people - although your children's characters after they grow up might be revealing.

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This is too funny, yet very true!

As a parent every, I mean EVERY aspect in life totally changes. The simple task of just visting the restroom in your home may be totally interrupted by the constant bickering and fights between a sister and brother about absolutely NOTHING. Lord knows why the have to bicker so much about the most simplest things! But hey I did it as a child so I guess I'm just getting payback.

To the OP, IMO, I feel extra curricular activities are just that, EXTRA-CURRICULAR. An activity that is simply out of the norm from your every day life tasks and/or schedule. But, if you feel activities you do as a parent is extra-curricular, to each's own.

ejw5075 said:

This was 1) Not my question, as I did not, and would never include such a thing on an application to graduate school, and 2) I not my point in the post that you are so arrogantly responding to.

There is no point providing a real response to your comments, as a person of your grandeur would never listen to someone like me.

You may have successfully raised your children, and you may have been parent of the year, my point is that you can be a good parent regardless of how old your children are.

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Sorry, I should have said "The question in this thread" as opposed to "Your question" You're not the original poster.

Of course you can be a good parent no matter what age your children are. However, it is impossible for someone to tell how good of a parent you are by reading what you write about it. And, frankly, it is pretty close to impossible for you to know, yourself, how good of a parent you are being when they are 3 years old. Contrary to your supposition that I consider myself a good parent, I just stated, above, that I am much less confident of my parenting skills than I was a few years ago. My wife and I would do a whole lot of things differently. Parenting is about doing your best and hoping for the best. You'll find that parents of babies congratulate themselves on their parenting skills more often than parents of teenagers do.

And this illustrates my point. The application is about displaying yourself in such a way that an adcom will judge you a good fit for the class. Bragging about your children adds nothing to this.

pinkzebra said:

a little arrogant dont you think? to call someone's competent parenting skills up to the preschool years simply just "rocking chair technique?" the point is the FOUNDATION. from the moment your child is born, your parenting is setting the foundation for their later years..

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Yes, yes, I remember how much we agonized over whether we ought to teach them sign language at 15 months in order to organize the verbal skills of their little developing brains. Somehow they survive us anyway.

Someone said above that "Parents should get over themselves." I concur. A parent should be concentrating on his child instead of telling everyone around them what great parents they, themselves, are. Most people aren't called upon to have an opinion of themselves at all. Let your children "rise up and call you blessed."

LingoLaine said:

Anybody ever consider listing parenting as an "extra-curricular activity" on their AMCAS app?

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To the OP -


My Datum:


I didn't include it in my primary. However, I did in one secondary...

The ONLY single time I put parenting on a secondary was when there was a clear expectation to determine the amount of time spent on ECs. This is based on my judgment of the way the webpage was laid out for this competitive school. I concluded (likely incorrectly) the intention was to calculate total number of hours at the bottom of the page - possibly for automated calculation of total # hours - which may have been a tool for screening applicants.

In short, my motivation was to illustrate that I wasn't just loafing around, but indeed busy in a way that precluded excessive EC hours.

Summary:
1 - I did it once
2 - I did not get an interview there.
3 - I would NOT have done it again.

Anecdotal - yes. But this is my datum.


My two cents:

For me, I had a high level of anxiety about not having "stuff" on my application to show for my years beyond school. That is, I didn't live my life with AMCAS in mind and, to make matters worse, I had little concrete evidence of what little I had done. I doubt any of us do.


The value of being of a nontrad in a serious relationship or being a parent can not be overstated in your application - but it shouldn't be included as an EC.

Being in a serious relationship means compromise, negotiating, and a high level of interpersonal interactions. Often there are conflicting goals/ideas/priorities. The mere act of being married/living with someone/etc. involves facing challenging situations on a daily basis.

Practice makes better:

Practice doesn't make perfect. Nobody is perfect at it. But practice makes better. In college if someone disagreed with me, or p****d me off, I would maybe call them a name, write off their ideas and opinions as flawed, and avoid them. Why? partially because I was stupid and young, but also because I could. Not so easy when I sleep in the same bed (when I'm not on the couch ) with the person I disagree with.

Take this idea to the next level when talking about parenting. Children are often uncompromising, have no social filters, and very demanding emotionally, financially, and physically (at least early on). I know these are generalizations, but you get my point: Trial by fire. You hone interpersonal skills as a parent.

It's all about how you frame it:

Imagine if your thread asked this instead:

"How should I include my time spent parenting in my application in the most persuasive and effective way?"

I think you would have had a better and more productive response from the nontrad community. Now you saw what happened - and we nontrads are likely more sympathetic than your average ADCOM at a medical school! You don't want to foster contention in your application.

You will have to formulate WHAT about parenting is making you personally a great candidate for medical school. You can use it as an example in your application, maybe even your personal statement. I am positive it will come up in interviews and if you frame it right - it will help you shine.

If you do frame it in a good way, even non-parent interviewers and reviewers will look favorably on your application.

Finally, OP:

The general consensus is to NOT include it. I am not sure if you will get much more from this thread. If you are satisfied with the responses, you can ask the mods to close this thread. I am not sure there is any more productive information to be gained. Your choice, of course.


Good luck,

Sorry for blathering on.

I always root for my Nontrads, and I wish you personally the best of luck!

PM me if you want.

-vc7777

gonnif said:

To extend this question a bit, how do you list/deal with organized activities around your children?

Under the concept that an EC should help show a pattern of commitment, motivation, and achievement, I would assume that if you are active in the PTA, teach dance or yoga as a volunteer for preschoolers, or are a cub scout den parent, that would be a be a positive and worth while to list? While it needs to be balanced with what else you may have in the way of EC's, most parents I am sure have limited time.

What is the thread's thoughts on this?

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Those are very nice EC's.

I'm sure this has already been said, Parenting is not an EC.

vc7777 said:

For me, I had a high level of anxiety about not having "stuff" on my application to show for my years beyond school. That is, I didn't live my life with AMCAS in mind and, to make matters worse, I had little concrete evidence of what little I had done. I doubt any of us do.


The value of being of a nontrad in a serious relationship or being a parent can not be overstated in your application - but it shouldn't be included as an EC.

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I was worried about this too. Especially reading the dumb SDN threads with people asking which of the 46 ECs they should include in their 15 EC limit on AMCAS.

VC says it best: Value? absolutely. Include on app? No way.

This is why there are interviews. Weave it into a story.

MCAT guy said:

I was worried about this too. Especially reading the dumb SDN threads with people asking which of the 46 ECs they should include in their 15 EC limit on AMCAS.

VC says it best: Value? absolutely. Include on app? No way.

This is why there are interviews. Weave it into a story.

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I've been a medical student longer than I've been a parent. And I would consider being a medical student "extra-curricular" now. Parenting is primary. It should always be that way if you are a good parent. Your child always comes first. The fact that this is even a question makes no sense to me. How could parenting possibly be extra-curricular? I don't understand this thread.

Somewhat related, and I wasn't sure where to ask about this...

Can I put babysitting and tutoring as an EC? Or do I list that as a job on the apps since I was getting paid? Thanks!

Edit:

Also where would I list helping out family, for example sister-in-laws children? should i even bother listing something like helping family (which obviously I was not getting paid for)?

mmdp said:

Somewhat related, and I wasn't sure where to ask about this...

Can I put babysitting and tutoring as an EC? Or do I list that as a job on the apps since I was getting paid? Thanks!

Edit:

Also where would I list helping out family, for example sister-in-laws children? should i even bother listing something like helping family (which obviously I was not getting paid for)?

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http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=202513
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=724622

Pons Asinorum said:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=202513
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=724622

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Awesome! Thanks