Pharmacy Job Market/Outlook

why would I be a troll? I get no benefits out of it. When choosing a career, you should research and get in touch with reality. Before deciding to go for pharmacy school, I called several pharmacy and asked for jobs to see if there were any available....and yes, plenty were open. Now, you should try to make a call to any pharmacy stores, or hospital and ask for a job (pretending you are a new grad)...and see if there is any spot.

Students are mistakenly making the school richer and richer with very dooming job prospect. After all, you spend years in school, get a degree...and find out it becomes very useless....very sad feeling, my friends. On top of that is the loan you have to pay back.

lisinopril said:

Before deciding to go for pharmacy school, I called several pharmacy and asked for jobs to see if there were any available....and yes, plenty were open. Now, you should try to make a call to any pharmacy stores, or hospital and ask for a job (pretending you are a new grad)...and see if there is any spot.

Students are mistakenly making the school richer and richer with very dooming job prospect. After all, you spend years in school, get a degree...and find out it becomes very useless....very sad feeling, my friends. On top of that is the loan you have to pay back.

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I feel like there is no way that you're a real pharmacist... and besides that point, try getting a job in anything anywhere. Clearly you know nothing about the real world if you think that Pharmacy is the only saturated area. As everyone on here says all the time, the situation isn't much different elsewhere.

lisinopril said:

why would I be a troll? I get no benefits out of it. When choosing a career, you should research and get in touch with reality. Before deciding to go for pharmacy school, I called several pharmacy and asked for jobs to see if there were any available....and yes, plenty were open. Now, you should try to make a call to any pharmacy stores, or hospital and ask for a job (pretending you are a new grad)...and see if there is any spot.

Students are mistakenly making the school richer and richer with very dooming job prospect. After all, you spend years in school, get a degree...and find out it becomes very useless....very sad feeling, my friends. On top of that is the loan you have to pay back.

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Ha, ha. It's funny. I jumped over here from the optometry site as I am an optometrist. The first post i read mirrors optometry. Sell-out losers have run to the first commercial place that offered them a 6 figure income and they have ruined optometry.

The humor is that the pre-students folks all act the same. They are superior beings that know it all. It doesn't matter what people in the field, be it Pharmacist or Optometrist, say. After all, we just live it day and night.

If you don't say what a student wants to hear, they throw a tantrum and cry that you are a troll, troll, troll! They want to be treated like little girls like society has made them all. Everyone gets a trophy just for being there. 'There are no winners and losers'. 'Everyone is valuable'. ' 1+ 4 could equal 7 Johnny if you just 2 more. Big GREEN check mark for you!

Yea, try that crap with an employer. You pre-whatever student should get on your knees and thank us in the trenches for giving you a warning call. But that's okay. A thanks 5 years later will suffice too Of course, you will be defaulting on those big loans by then so you probably won't have time to post on-line.

Oh yea, and P.S. sure there are other professions that are saturated. But most of them don't require 8 years of your life and $200,000 to get in to. After that much time and money, you should be relatively guaranteed a good profession otherwise, why do it (I know, I know.....you want to help people and contribute to society).....roll eyes

It's not mean to tell the truth people.

.

But see, if the internet was big back in the early 1990's when I finished undergrad, and there were a bunch of practicing docs saying not to go into pharmacy or optometry....call me crazy, but I would have listened and went a different way.

I happen to believe professionals when they talk to me. I don't immediately pretend that they are losers and out to trick me.

I wonder if all you students question everything your MD says to you during your routine check up? If he says your blood pressure is high, do you say, Na uh, I checked it 2 weeks ago at home and it was fine so your just a whiny troll.

Oh wait, you had one pharmacist/optometrist at your local CVS say everything is fine so just ignore anything you don't want to hear. That'll make a job appear for you in a few years.

Makes me wonder what all the extra unemployed OD and PharmD students are going to be doing in 10 years. They are not planning on building THAT many new Walmarts or Walgreens I don't think.

Oh well, I'll go back to the optometry forum to listen to the all enlighted optometry students tell me about life.

Why do you guys keep throwing around these 200K numbers? I know a handful of pharmacy students including myself that aren't in that much debt... You can definitely amass that much if you borrow full amounts each year but that isn't smart. It very easy to get out of school with less than 130K. Stop busting out these outrageous number because those who don't know any better will believe you.

Tippytoe said:

Ha, ha. It's funny. I jumped over here from the optometry site as I am an optometrist. The first post i read mirrors optometry. Sell-out losers have run to the first commercial place that offered them a 6 figure income and they have ruined optometry.

The humor is that the pre-students folks all act the same. They are superior beings that know it all. It doesn't matter what people in the field, be it Pharmacist or Optometrist, say. After all, we just live it day and night.

If you don't say what a student wants to hear, they throw a tantrum and cry that you are a troll, troll, troll! They want to be treated like little girls like society has made them all. Everyone gets a trophy just for being there. 'There are no winners and losers'. 'Everyone is valuable'. ' 1+ 4 could equal 7 Johnny if you just 2 more. Big GREEN check mark for you!

Yea, try that crap with an employer. You pre-whatever student should get on your knees and thank us in the trenches for giving you a warning call. But that's okay. A thanks 5 years later will suffice too Of course, you will be defaulting on those big loans by then so you probably won't have time to post on-line.

Oh yea, and P.S. sure there are other professions that are saturated. But most of them don't require 8 years of your life and $200,000 to get in to. After that much time and money, you should be relatively guaranteed a good profession otherwise, why do it (I know, I know.....you want to help people and contribute to society).....roll eyes

It's not mean to tell the truth people.

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It's fine to be mean and tell the truth. I have no problem being told that I'm not guaranteed a job after I graduate.

This is the problem.... You're not providing a SOLUTION. You're bitching for the sake of bitching. It's what teenage girls do and it's pathetic.

Tippytoe said:

But see, if the internet was big back in the early 1990's when I finished undergrad, and there were a bunch of practicing docs saying not to go into pharmacy or optometry....call me crazy, but I would have listened and went a different way.

I happen to believe professionals when they talk to me. I don't immediately pretend that they are losers and out to trick me.

I wonder if all you students question everything your MD says to you during your routine check up? If he says your blood pressure is high, do you say, Na uh, I checked it 2 weeks ago at home and it was fine so your just a whiny troll.

Oh wait, you had one pharmacist/optometrist at your local CVS say everything is fine so just ignore anything you don't want to hear.

I'll be back at the optometry forum listening to the all enlighted optometry students tell me about life.

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No, I ask him how to control my damn blood pressure. If their just going to throw crap in my face without a solution I will call him a "troll"

iceman132 said:

No, I ask him how to control my damn blood pressure. If their just going to throw crap in my face without a solution I will call him a "troll"

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BTW, it's "they're" not their. Don't skip any more english classes, okay. 'Attention to details' probably matters in pharmacy. I'm just guessing.

Tippytoe said:

Of course I'm offering a solution. DON'T GO INTO AN OVERCROWED FIELD LIKE PHARMACY OR OPTOMETRY OR LAW. GO INTO A FIELD THAT DESPERATELY NEEDS PEOPLE LIKE FAMILY PRACTICE MD, NURSE, PHYSICIAN ASSISTANT or COMPUTER PROGRAMING PERHAPS.

Did you really need me to spell that out for you? Really? It's sorta common sense, right.

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It's a step in the right direction.

Don't expect everyone to know everything that you do. Be slow to anger.

Edit: I do find this discussion interesting though. Not a single pharmacist has warned me to stay out of this field..... While several family doctors have warned me to stay out.

Just FYI, you're having a conversation with a known troll from the optometry forums so you should not expect a rational discussion. Since the moderation of the pharmacy forums are a bit more timely than on the optometry forum, we can only hope that this entire thread gets moved into the pharmacy outlook mega thread soon.

iceman132 said:

It's a step in the right direction.

Don't expect everyone to know everything that you do. Be slow to anger.

Edit: I do find this discussion interesting though. Not a single pharmacist has warned me to stay out of this field..... While several family doctors have warned me to stay out.

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Tippytoe said:

BTW, it's "they're" not their. Don't skip any more english classes, okay. 'Attention to details' probably matters in pharmacy. I'm just guessing.

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You are being a douche. You can take the high road all you want, but it still does not take away from the fact that your being a douche.

There are plenty of jobs for Pharmacists, and Optometrists, in this job market. I know this, because I have worked in high level retail management for 14 years of a major retail chain in America. We are looking to fill positions all over the place, and we still are offering sign on bonuses for both. Go back to your optometry forum, and spread your negativity there. We have plenty of that already. Thanks..

I cant wait until I graduate, I am going to get a sweet sign on bonus, and I am going to live happily ever after.

netmag said:

Just FYI, you're having a conversation with a known troll from the optometry forums so you should not expect a rational discussion. Since the moderation of the pharmacy forums are a bit more timely than on the optometry forum, we can only hope that this entire thread gets moved into the pharmacy outlook mega thread soon.

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Troll? Keep telling yourself that. Netmag, didn't you get kicked off the optometry forum? That's funny.
I'm sorry that facts get in your way. I was accused by some brilliant pre-OD student of trying to keep my competition down by trying to talk people out of optometry.....even though I told them I will be long since retired by the time they get into the mix. But in typical student fashion, they totally ignored that little tid bit and continue the same tired arguments.

BUT I can positively assure you that I have no vested interest in anyone becoming or not becomming a pharmcist. I really couldn't care less. I'm just trying to be helpful but I should have learned already, you can't help some people.

And to the other poster, there is a difference between a job and a career position. Standing for 10 hours in the back of CVS or working a phoropter in front of the cash registers while people ask you where the tampons are located is not my (or probably anyones) idea of a great career. This is all that will be available in the future for the most part.

So be in denial all you want. This is what you are in for. I'm sorry if I hurt anyones itty bitty feelings. Maybe mommy can bake you some brownies tonight and tell you how smart you are. Ha, ha. ha...

I feel like I'm talking to one of my idiot welfare patients trying to explain to them that they have glaucoma. I show them the image of their optic nerve, I show them the IOP, I go over every family member that has it, I show them the visual field..........and they just say, nah, I ain't worried. I don't wanna take no drops". Total denial--just like some are you. But it's fun to talk with everyone. Just makes me glad I was born with common sense. I didn't realize it was so rare in the general population until I started practicing.

Oh yea, Dentistry is a great field too. No internet invasion, little insurance and no MD (or any) competition. And you can lie all you want about tooth problems and no one will really question you. They just pull out the check book.

I just laugh and giggle at all these people telling others not to go into pharmacy because "it's too saturated". Really? It's so saturated that the pharmacy job market is increasing...give me a break.

BenJammin said:

In your opinion.

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No, in the rankings. Whether you agree with the rankings or not, there is only one set of national rankings. Yeah, rankings for pharmacy don't mean as much as they do for say, law school. But the rankings are still the rankings.. not my opinion.

People who contest the rankings usually are at a poorly ranked school. Too bad. They are what they are and they are the same rankings an employer would see if they were interested to look up the school rankings. Once again, not every employer will care. But to say it is my opinion is stupid. I didn't make the rankings obviously...

bw6 said:

No, in the rankings. Whether you agree with the rankings or not, there is only one set of national rankings. Yeah, rankings for pharmacy don't mean as much as they do for say, law school. But the rankings are still the rankings.. not my opinion.

People who contest the rankings usually are at a poorly ranked school. Too bad. They are what they are and they are the same rankings an employer would see if they were interested to look up the school rankings. Once again, not every employer will care. But to say it is my opinion is stupid. I didn't make the rankings obviously...

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what about schools that are unranked?

Tippytoe said:

I feel like I'm talking to one of my idiot welfare patients trying to explain to them that they have glaucoma. I show them the image of their optic nerve, I show them the IOP, I go over every family member that has it, I show them the visual field..........and they just say, nah, I ain't worried. I don't wanna take no drops". Total denial--just like some are you. But it's fun to talk with everyone. Just makes me glad I was born with common sense. I didn't realize it was so rare in the general population until I started practicing.

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perhaps this is why you had such a hard time initially finding a job as an optometrist? maybe it was not the saturation but your lack of professionalism. you are a health care profession, or so you claim to be, yet you would call a welfare patient an "idiot" and then mock the way they speak, which has its subtle racist implications. you are an optometrist, learn to speak like one

Buzz12 said:

what about schools that are unranked?

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A lot of the unranked schools have not been around long enough to establish a reputation (that's what LECOM said about them being unranked). Other ones have no ongoing research or don't meet other criteria. Some simply refuse to be ranked. If a school refuses to be ranked, you can safely assume their ranking would not be stellar. A high ranking will help the school so no school would logically refuse to have a high rank posted.

Once again, I don't make the rankings and a lot of people don't like how they are done. For example, some schools don't do great research and are poorly ranked because of it. Students get offended because it doesn't directly affect their education. But institutions with great research attract better faculty and more money. It is a flawed system but it is the only one there is. So if someone doesn't like their school's rank, oh well. It is what it is.

If rankings bother people enough to get upset over them, they should have gone to a better school.

usechopstix said:

perhaps this is why you had such a hard time initially finding a job as an optometrist? maybe it was not the saturation but your lack of professionalism. you are a health care profession, or so you claim to be, yet you would call a welfare patient an "idiot" and then mock the way they speak, which has its subtle racist implications. you are an optometrist, learn to speak like one

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For someone who preaches grammar to other SDN members, you sure need to work on yours. Maybe you shouldn't judge other's imperfections before you fix your own.

For the record, this was directed toward Tippytoe. I quoted usechopstix.. whoops.

usechopstix said:

perhaps this is why you had such a hard time initially finding a job as an optometrist? maybe it was not the saturation but your lack of professionalism. you are a health care profession, or so you claim to be, yet you would call a welfare patient an "idiot" and then mock the way they speak, which has its subtle racist implications. you are an optometrist, learn to speak like one

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Agreed, it's really pathetic to see a supposed professional acting like a thug and talking down to a bunch of people in their 20's. Insecure much?

Why is this on the pre pharm forum? So let me get this straight your asking a bunch of pre-pharm students that are dying to get into pharmacy school why they shouldn't get into the pharmacy field when there is not a 'big' job market? Really?!? ....................... please stay out of the pre pharm forum because you are not going to convince any of us to do something that you want us to do. I think we're smart enough to make 'big boy' decisions on our own like picking a career. Thanks!

usechopstix said:

perhaps this is why you had such a hard time initially finding a job as an optometrist?

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I did?! Wow, I must have just dreamed graduating and open a practice cold many years ago (before Walmart, 1-800 Contacts, etc. and an additional 25% more schools). Thanks for setting me straight. Whew!

Tippytoe said:

I did?! Wow, I must have just dreamed graduating and open a practice cold many years ago (before Walmart, 1-800 Contacts, etc. and an additional 25% more schools). Thanks for setting me straight. Whew!

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So you graduated prior to 1995 which is when 1800 Contacts opened.

This mean you are in your early to mid 40's arguing with people who are old enough to be your son/ daughter

Really gramps? Really?

What about new opportunities? The pharmacy profession can do more than work in retail or hospital. How about opportunities in the pharmaceutical industry? There is also a growing push for medication therapy management (MTM). May be the pharmacy profession in the future will not be so dependent on the number of retail pharmacies.

lisinopril said:

With this bad economy and a super saturation in pharmacy job market, why students still try to get in pharmacy schools ? Especially to Asian parents wanting their kids to do so. Don't they know that it is hard to get a job now?

I have friends keep calling me and asking for jobs for their daughters, sons who are new grads. The truth is: we don't hire anyone and will not to in anytime soon. Sad for the new grads with 200K loan and no job offer prospect.

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because you are just thinking of pharmacy in retail....there are so many different fields out there where pharmacists can work...so stop saying all this to new students...if a student is interested in science and pharmacy and has ability to get in then they will apply to pharmacy....

lisinopril said:

With this bad economy and a super saturation in pharmacy job market, why students still try to get in pharmacy schools ? Especially to Asian parents wanting their kids to do so. Don't they know that it is hard to get a job now?

I have friends keep calling me and asking for jobs for their daughters, sons who are new grads. The truth is: we don't hire anyone and will not to in anytime soon. Sad for the new grads with 200K loan and no job offer prospect.

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:troll:

Additionally, I challenge the validity of this statement. I don't believe you have friends.

Tippytoe said:

Of course I'm offering a solution. DON'T GO INTO AN OVERCROWED FIELD LIKE PHARMACY OR OPTOMETRY OR LAW. GO INTO A FIELD THAT DESPERATELY NEEDS PEOPLE LIKE FAMILY PRACTICE MD, NURSE, PHYSICIAN ASSISTANT or COMPUTER PROGRAMING PERHAPS.

Did you really need me to spell that out for you? Really? It's sorta common sense, right.

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finally someone outside of pharmacy sounding the alarm.
i am a p3 sounding the alarm with no avail as well.
sdn needs more good Samaritans like us!!

fyi nurse and computer programmers are probably not in demand

ps i seen the good work you do on the opt forum, its a shame that good mod left after policing that troll.

Rph888 said:

finally someone outside of pharmacy sounding the alarm.
i am a p3 sounding the alarm with no avail as well.
sdn needs more good Samaritans like us!!

fyi nurse and computer programmers are probably not in demand

ps i seen the good work you do on the opt forum, its a shame that good mod left after policing that troll.

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Hmmm, so far the only job available seems to be Physicians assistant. (Since I've been told it's worthless to become a computer programmer, pharmacist, nurse, optometrist, and Family Doctor).....

How about saving some money and quitting pharmacy school now since you'll be begging for change in about 2 years?

lisinopril said:

With this bad economy and a super saturation in pharmacy job market, why students still try to get in pharmacy schools ? Especially to Asian parents wanting their kids to do so. Don't they know that it is hard to get a job now?

I have friends keep calling me and asking for jobs for their daughters, sons who are new grads. The truth is: we don't hire anyone and will not to in anytime soon. Sad for the new grads with 200K loan and no job offer prospect.

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Please stop, your giving me a headache.

*waits and sees how many people get this*

truerx said:

What about new opportunities? The pharmacy profession can do more than work in retail or hospital. How about opportunities in the pharmaceutical industry? There is also a growing push for medication therapy management (MTM). May be the pharmacy profession in the future will not be so dependent on the number of retail pharmacies.

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The pharmaceutical industry is in a period of massive consolidation. Many jobs will be laid off. The number of drugs going off patent in the next few years is staggering. Lipitor and Lexapro has just recently gone generic. The only bright spot in industry will be with biotechs as companies abandon traditional drug targeting in place of more novel approaches.

MTM...lawled...if only you knew. Hey, it's gotta start somewhere right?

I could see collaborative agreements and prescriptive authority as a bright spot in the future.

To the pre-mature prepharmD:

Visit this thread and see how the reality is

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=639184&page=28
http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/pharmacist/Lies-about-pharmacist-job-market/t264349/p5

I can assure you it's 90% accurate (if not 100%).

would I consider a career in pharmacy 5 yrs ago? Absolutely!
would I consider a career in pharmacy now? Ansolutely NOT!

I still dont see how the evidence you provided is related to your pre-mature statement

lisinopril said:

Especially to Asian parents wanting their kids to do so. Don't they know that it is hard to get a job now?

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iceman132 said:

So you graduated prior to 1995 which is when 1800 Contacts opened.

This mean you are in your early to mid 40's arguing with people who are old enough to be your son/ daughter

Really gramps? Really?

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First of all, someone being in their 40's does not make them a "gramps". Second of all, the name calling is immature and unnecessary.

At APhA this weekend, the overall tone was concern over the job market, saturation in larger cities, the number of schools, the quality of education, AND the quality of students. The latter point is important as faculty have noticed a significant trend in the attitude of pharmacy students. The entitlement attitude WILL NOT make you successful. What will make you successful is hard work, networking, and strong professional relationships. From what I saw this weekend, some students really should think about that and so should you pre pharmers. Yes, the gloom and doom gets old but there is some validity to it. There are still jobs but you'll have to work harder for them. It's just like with any field though...competition is competition. With that said, the incessant ohmygodtheworldisending threads are so boring. Don't you guys have something else to start a discussion about?

rxlea said:

Second of all, the name calling is immature and unnecessary.

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Sorry, I just have a problem with lisinopril making racial statement like that while calling others who disagree with him "immature". Personally my view on the pharmacy job market is closer to lisinopril's, but I don't go around making insensitive remarks.

truerx said:

What about new opportunities? The pharmacy profession can do more than work in retail or hospital. How about opportunities in the pharmaceutical industry? There is also a growing push for medication therapy management (MTM). May be the pharmacy profession in the future will not be so dependent on the number of retail pharmacies.

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Interesting that you brought up Pharma, which side of the industry do PharmDs usually work in, is it clinical trials?

I'm curious bcos I worked as a Scientist (QC) at a pharmaceutical co. for a number of years and I never came across PharmDs.. There were tons of chemists, engineers (chemical usu.), microbiologists, statisticians, other scientists, ppl from the regulatory world n corporate folks of course, but never PharmDs..

One would think ur education/training would be transferable to quite a few roles in Pharma, (QA/Regs, Clinical trials, mgmt etc etc)...

bw6 said:

Because I like the field and because the graduating class at my pharmacy school has 85% job placement. It is a top 5 school which may help, but stop being a doom and gloomer to prospective students. Just because you know some people who have struggled is no reason to scare these poor kids. Onceagain, 85% job placement PRIOR TO GRADUATION. The other 15% will eventually find jobs or they may have just been bad students and dug their own grave.

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........I call BULL****!

Bernoull said:

Interesting that you brought up Pharma, which side of the industry do PharmDs usually work in, is it clinical trials?

I'm curious bcos I worked as a Scientist (QC) at a pharmaceutical co. for a number of years and I never came across PharmDs.. There were tons of chemists, engineers (chemical usu.), microbiologists, statisticians, other scientists, ppl from the regulatory world n corporate folks of course, but never PharmDs..

One would think ur education/training would be transferable to quite a few roles in Pharma, (QA/Regs, Clinical trials, mgmt etc etc)...

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I have friends who work for regulatory affairs (RA) as well as in drug safety/pharmacovigilance departments within the pharmaceutical industry. PharmDs are usually in these departments.

rxlea said:

First of all, someone being in their 40's does not make them a "gramps". Second of all, the name calling is immature and unnecessary.

At APhA this weekend, the overall tone was concern over the job market, saturation in larger cities, the number of schools, the quality of education, AND the quality of students. The latter point is important as faculty have noticed a significant trend in the attitude of pharmacy students. The entitlement attitude WILL NOT make you successful. What will make you successful is hard work, networking, and strong professional relationships. From what I saw this weekend, some students really should think about that and so should you pre pharmers. Yes, the gloom and doom gets old but there is some validity to it. There are still jobs but you'll have to work harder for them. It's just like with any field though...competition is competition. With that said, the incessant ohmygodtheworldisending threads are so boring. Don't you guys have something else to start a discussion about?

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As usual Lea, you have sound ideas. As one of those "gramps" people (almost, not quite 40 yet ), I am appalled at some of the attitudes anymore. I have busted my a** to get where I am at and plan to for the next few years in school. Maybe I grew up in a different time or maybe my military time rubbed off on me, but you can look around the classroom and see the differing levels of attitude. And, usually, the people trying the hardest are the older people.

I am under no illusions that I will be handed a job when I graduate. But, I will continue to make myself stand out and attempt to keep myself as close as possible to the top. That way, I will have the best chance at landing one of those "elusive" jobby thingys.

rxlea said:

First of all, someone being in their 40's does not make them a "gramps". Second of all, the name calling is immature and unnecessary.

At APhA this weekend, the overall tone was concern over the job market, saturation in larger cities, the number of schools, the quality of education, AND the quality of students. The latter point is important as faculty have noticed a significant trend in the attitude of pharmacy students. The entitlement attitude WILL NOT make you successful. What will make you successful is hard work, networking, and strong professional relationships. From what I saw this weekend, some students really should think about that and so should you pre pharmers. Yes, the gloom and doom gets old but there is some validity to it. There are still jobs but you'll have to work harder for them. It's just like with any field though...competition is competition. With that said, the incessant ohmygodtheworldisending threads are so boring. Don't you guys have something else to start a discussion about?

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I have no problem getting called out and I'll make sure to mind my manners. Maybe calling him gramps was a little insulting... But if you saw the context it was to make the point that it was sad to see such an old man bickering with a bunch of 20 year olds.

If you don't say what a student wants to hear, they throw a tantrum and cry that you are a troll, troll, troll! They want to be treated like little girls like society has made them all. Everyone gets a trophy just for being there. 'There are no winners and losers'. 'Everyone is valuable'. ' 1+ 4 could equal 7 Johnny if you just 2 more. Big GREEN check mark for you!

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This is one of many childlike insults he has made. Some being borderline racist. I have no clue why I'm being given a spanking while this guy is getting off scotch free.

Kansas Pharmer said:

As usual Lea, you have sound ideas. As one of those "gramps" people (almost, not quite 40 yet ), I am appalled at some of the attitudes anymore. I have busted my a** to get where I am at and plan to for the next few years in school. Maybe I grew up in a different time or maybe my military time rubbed off on me, but you can look around the classroom and see the differing levels of attitude. And, usually, the people trying the hardest are the older people.

I am under no illusions that I will be handed a job when I graduate. But, I will continue to make myself stand out and attempt to keep myself as close as possible to the top. That way, I will have the best chance at landing one of those "elusive" jobby thingys.

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Noone feels entitled. You are looking at one (Admittedly immature) post of mine and going off . (At least if you are talking about the attitude in this thread which I'm not sure you are)

This 40 year old man is acting like a 15 year old thug. Go read the entire thread.

rxlea said:

First of all, someone being in their 40's does not make them a "gramps". Second of all, the name calling is immature and unnecessary.

At APhA this weekend, the overall tone was concern over the job market, saturation in larger cities, the number of schools, the quality of education, AND the quality of students. The latter point is important as faculty have noticed a significant trend in the attitude of pharmacy students. The entitlement attitude WILL NOT make you successful. What will make you successful is hard work, networking, and strong professional relationships. From what I saw this weekend, some students really should think about that and so should you pre pharmers. Yes, the gloom and doom gets old but there is some validity to it. There are still jobs but you'll have to work harder for them. It's just like with any field though...competition is competition. With that said, the incessant ohmygodtheworldisending threads are so boring. Don't you guys have something else to start a discussion about?

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Thank you rxlea for being the voice of reason. I'm not sure whose comments I loathe more, the alarmists or the denialists. Both have some truth to their claims, but both tend to be extreme views. Then the name calling and generalizations... let us remember we're professionals (or will/hope to be) even on anonymous Internet forums. Often times the people making these threads are trying to help. I would agree that they need to work on communication, but clearly so do many of us here.

iceman132 said:

Noone feels entitled. You are looking at one (Admittedly immature) post of mine and going off . (At least if you are talking about the attitude in this thread which I'm not sure you are)

This 40 year old man is acting like a 15 year old thug. Go read the entire thread.

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Chill a little; my rant was not singling you out... I use the "gramps" title with pride. I am 38 and still run circles around alot (Hi Owle ) of my classmates half my age.

I was referring to the overall prevailing entitlement attitude of the 20ish generation. I believe is not as prevalent in any upper level degree program but out on the street... All I can say is WOW!!! If I would have acted like that when I was 18, 19, 20, etc. I would have gotten a literal beating.

Kansas Pharmer said:

Chill a little; my rant was not singling you out... I use the "gramps" title with pride. I am 38 and still run circles around alot (Hi Owle ) of my classmates half my age.

I was referring to the overall prevailing entitlement attitude of the 20ish generation. I believe is not as prevalent in any upper level degree program but out on the street... All I can say is WOW!!! If I would have acted like that when I was 18, 19, 20, etc. I would have gotten a literal beating.

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Let me make it clear that in 99% of cases I respect my elders.

The man I was referring to was just being disrespectful and completely unhelpful.

I have no problems being told what the job outlook is like. I do have a problem with someone coming off like a fat drunk racist frat boy who thinks he knows it all. (Calling people little girls and mocking people in the ghettos)

iceman132 said:

Let me make it clear that in 99% of cases I respect my elders.

The man I was referring to was just being disrespectful and completely unhelpful.

I have no problems being told what the job outlook is like. I do have a problem with someone coming off like a fat drunk racist frat boy who thinks he knows it all. (Calling people little girls and mocking people in the ghettos)

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Oh, I agree. I just didnt want you to think I singled you out. I was not trying to correct any one person, just the "me, me" people in general.

I am just a little disappointed in the current generation especially since I have given 20 years of my life to get to where I am at. But, they complain (again, not all, just some) that things arent given to them fast enough.

kcwang said:

Sorry, I just have a problem with lisinopril making statement like that while calling others who disagree with him "immature". Personity my view on the pharmacy job market is closer to lisinopril's, but I don't go around making insensitive remarks.

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I must have missed the supposed "racial statement". That's why there is a report button to the left of each post. If you think it violated the TOS, report it. Otherwise, remember that throwing fuel in the fire gets you nowhere in these types of threads.

iceman132 said:

I have no problem getting called out and I'll make sure to mind my manners. Maybe calling him gramps was a little insulting... But if you saw the context it was to make the point that it was sad to see such an old man bickering with a bunch of 20 year olds.



This is one of many childlike insults he has made. Some being borderline racist. I have no clue why I'm being given a spanking while this guy is getting off scotch free.

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40 is not old. The fact you think that is laughable and confirms what some faculty from other schools told me. Your posts seem whiny to me. Let it go already!

iceman132 said:

Noone feels entitled. You are looking at one (Admittedly immature) post of mine and going off . (At least if you are talking about the attitude in this thread which I'm not sure you are)

This 40 year old man is acting like a 15 year old thug. Go read the entire thread.

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I read the thread and I don't see anyone acting like a thug. What do thugs act like in your part of the country?

The entitlement attitude is pervasive in professional schools...my point is in regards to that; however, I definitely see it on these fora.

Kansas Pharmer said:

As usual Lea, you have sound ideas. As one of those "gramps" people (almost, not quite 40 yet ), I am appalled at some of the attitudes anymore. I have busted my a** to get where I am at and plan to for the next few years in school. Maybe I grew up in a different time or maybe my military time rubbed off on me, but you can look around the classroom and see the differing levels of attitude. And, usually, the people trying the hardest are the older people.

I am under no illusions that I will be handed a job when I graduate. But, I will continue to make myself stand out and attempt to keep myself as close as possible to the top. That way, I will have the best chance at landing one of those "elusive" jobby thingys.

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Good job! yeah, don't let students put you down because of age. I'm turning 29 in a few days. A student in my class insulted me once saying that I was jealous of another classmate (19 yearsold) because of her youth. Ihad to laugh. i would never want to go back to my early twenties. The thirties can't get here fast enough.

rxlea said:

Good job! yeah, don't let students put you down because of age. I'm turning 29 in a few days. A student in my class insulted me once saying that I was jealous of another classmate (19 yearsold) because of her youth. Ihad to laugh. i would never want to go back to my early twenties. The thirties can't get here fast enough.

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I dont ever let it get to me. At least I can be friends with most of my profs and preceptors without it being "weird"...

rxlea said:

I must have missed the supposed "racial statement". That's why there is a report button to the left of each post. If you think it violated the TOS, report it. Otherwise, remember that throwing fuel in the fire gets you nowhere in these types of threads.


40 is not old. The fact you think that is laughable and confirms what some faculty from other schools told me. Your posts seem whiny to me. Let it go already!



I read the thread and I don't see anyone acting like a thug. What do thugs act like in your part of the country?

The entitlement attitude is pervasive in professional schools...my point is in regards to that; however, I definitely see it on these fora.

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You are entirely ENTIRELY missing my point and the point of many others in this thread.

It's not that he's OLD. It's PATHETIC that a PERSON HIS AGE is attacking people in their TWENTIES. You should have MORE WISDOM at his age. (Though I was being a bit hypocritical by calling him gramps) He is condescending and completely unhelpful.


Here are some posts that confirm that he has a "thug" mentality and unless you are completely blind the way he describes his welfare patients are akin to ebonics. It is pretty clear with some common sense that he is being racist toward the black community.:

Tippytoe said:

They want to be treated like little girls like society has made them all. .[/B]

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Tippytoe said:

T
And to the other poster, there is a difference between a job and a career position. Standing for 10 hours in the back of CVS or working a phoropter in front of the cash registers while people ask you where the tampons are located is not my (or probably anyones) idea of a great career. This is all that will be available in the future for the most part.

So be in denial all you want. This is what you are in for. I'm sorry if I hurt anyones itty bitty feelings. Maybe mommy can bake you some brownies tonight and tell you how smart you are. Ha, ha. ha...

I feel like I'm talking to one of my idiot welfare patients trying to explain to them that they have glaucoma. I show them the image of their optic nerve, I show them the IOP, I go over every family member that has it, I show them the visual field..........and they just say, nah, I ain't worried. I don't wanna take no drops". Total denial--just like some are you. But it's fun to talk with everyone. Just makes me glad I was born with common sense. I didn't realize it was so rare in the general population until I started practicing.
.

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I have no problem being told the job market sucks.... I have a huge problem with people having no respect for others and insulting them. You're not there to be helpful. You're there to make people feel like garbage.

As usual there is a huge disconnect between pre-pharmers and current pharmacy students/pharmacists. Pre-pharmers are dis-illusioned and defensive about pharmacy, bcause it's the career they selected and they don't want to hear anything negative, whereas pharmacy students/pharmacists are in the real world and seeing what is going on. I wish i had a bag of popcorn to go along with this thread

rxlea said:

I must have missed the supposed "racial statement". That's why there is a report button to the left of each post. If you think it violated the TOS, report it. Otherwise, remember that throwing fuel in the fire gets you nowhere in these types of threads.

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I know what a report button is, and there is a reason why I didn't report him. I was basically trying to get the the same massage like this one

rxlea said:

Second of all, the name calling is immature and unnecessary.

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across to lisinopril by showing him that making racial stereotype, calling pre pharm "pre-mature" are immature and unnecessary. Maybe I should have worded better.

Tippytoe said:

Ha, ha. It's funny. I jumped over here from the optometry site as I am an optometrist. The first post i read mirrors optometry. Sell-out losers have run to the first commercial place that offered them a 6 figure income and they have ruined optometry.

The humor is that the pre-students folks all act the same. They are superior beings that know it all. It doesn't matter what people in the field, be it Pharmacist or Optometrist, say. After all, we just live it day and night.

If you don't say what a student wants to hear, they throw a tantrum and cry that you are a troll, troll, troll! They want to be treated like little girls like society has made them all. Everyone gets a trophy just for being there. 'There are no winners and losers'. 'Everyone is valuable'. ' 1+ 4 could equal 7 Johnny if you just 2 more. Big GREEN check mark for you!

Yea, try that crap with an employer. You pre-whatever student should get on your knees and thank us in the trenches for giving you a warning call. But that's okay. A thanks 5 years later will suffice too Of course, you will be defaulting on those big loans by then so you probably won't have time to post on-line.

Oh yea, and P.S. sure there are other professions that are saturated. But most of them don't require 8 years of your life and $200,000 to get in to. After that much time and money, you should be relatively guaranteed a good profession otherwise, why do it (I know, I know.....you want to help people and contribute to society).....roll eyes

It's not mean to tell the truth people.

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LIKE x 100000000

so. true.