Pharmacy Job Market/Outlook

[432921]

-

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[universalcynic]

If you're at a second tire pharmacy school, you're not as smart as people who are in the first tire pharmacy school.

If you can't spell the word "tier" correctly, you're not as smart as people who can spell the word "tier" correctly.

Actually, I don't think that's true. Differences in spelling abilities may broadly reflect differences in intelligence, but it would be unfair to say that someone who can't spell a certain word is necessarily less intelligent than someone who can. Similarly, differences in the rankings of schools might broadly reflect the intelligence of their students, but it's not valid to assume that an individual at a lower-ranked pharmacy school is less intelligent than any student (or even the average student) at a higher-ranked pharmacy school.

 

[AmbitiousRX]

If you can't spell the word "tier" correctly, you're not as smart as people who can spell the word "tier" correctly.

Actually, I don't think that's true. Differences in spelling abilities may broadly reflect differences in intelligence, but it would be unfair to say that someone who can't spell a certain word is necessarily less intelligent than someone who can. Similarly, differences in the rankings of schools might broadly reflect the intelligence of their students, but it's not valid to assume that an individual at a lower-ranked pharmacy school is less intelligent than any student (or even the average student) at a higher-ranked pharmacy school.

For give me for making typos. God forbid my incorrect use of the word tier will ruin the world of pharmacy as we know it. I never said I thought I was smart btw. I am smart enough to know the truth when I see it though. I'm not a Harvard grad, but I'm going to do everything I can to get as close it a Harvard grad as I can be.

lol @ your only defense being my spelling errors. Bring proof to back up your claim or don't make your claim at all. We're all science people here. No anecdotes. Now I'm not going to go into the aesthetics of intelligence(g factor, crystallized intelligence, fluid intelligence, working memory, etc.) but in terms of becoming a health professional: High undergrad GPA results in you getting into a high achieving professional school to become a high achieving health professional. So for our purposes, yes, a higher ranked school usually requires more brains than a second tire school.

"Among all of the variables that were examined, undergraduate GPA score was the most reliable variable in predicting academic achievement during the 2-year preclinical medical education, and MEET scores were a secondary indicator of academic achievement at CNUMS."

http://synapse.koreamed.org/DOIx.php?id=10.3946/kjme.2009.21.1.59

Life isn't fair.

Edit: Oh btw? Also from that study? "English test scores did not correlate with academic performance."

I got a 11/12 on my SAT essay three times in a row.

 

[Indypharm]

I don't think he/she was attacking your intelligence. Maybe poking fun of you a bit.... I do believe he was pointing out the flaw in your argument that as you put it "higher tier equals higher intelligence." I think you are putting too much emphasis on these tiers you are describing. There's so much more that goes into making a decision than saying all the top students go to the top ten schools.
I'll use myself as an example. I am an alternate for a BRAND NEW SCHOOL. It only has pre-candidate status, and I didn't get in. That sucks right? I must not be smart right? Well, two weeks later I got into Purdue. Ranked 7th.
But, if I am accepted, I plan on going to Butler. Ranked 40 something. Why would I ever attend a lower ranked school? I have two children, a husband, and I own my own home. I'd choose to go somewhere else because I won't have to commute 2 hours a day. I'll be able to work. Butler has one of the highest NAPLEX pass rates in the country and they have (though this may be different in 4 years) 100% job placement. These factors far outweigh my desire to attend a top 10 school. Now if I don't get into Butler, I'll happily commute to Purdue and brag about how I go to a top 10 school.

 

[universalcynic]

For give me for making typos. God forbid my incorrect use of the word tier will ruin the world of pharmacy as we know it. I never said I thought I was smart btw. I am smart enough to know the truth when I see it though. I'm not a Harvard grad, but I'm going to do everything I can to get as close it a Harvard grad as I can be.

lol @ your only defense being my spelling errors. Bring proof to back up your claim or don't make your claim at all. We're all science people here. No anecdotes. Now I'm not going to go into the aesthetics of intelligence(g factor, crystallized intelligence, fluid intelligence, working memory, etc.) but in terms of becoming a health professional: High undergrad GPA results in you getting into a high achieving professional school to become a high achieving health professional. So for our purposes, yes, a higher ranked school usually requires more brains than a second tire school.

"Among all of the variables that were examined, undergraduate GPA score was the most reliable variable in predicting academic achievement during the 2-year preclinical medical education, and MEET scores were a secondary indicator of academic achievement at CNUMS."

http://synapse.koreamed.org/DOIx.php?id=10.3946/kjme.2009.21.1.59

Life isn't fair.

Edit: Oh btw? Also from that study? "English test scores did not correlate with academic performance."

I got a 11/12 on my SAT essay three times in a row.

Now, now, no need to get hostile. Let's be nice here.

Actually, I don't think I'm in disagreement with you much at all. I wasn't saying that your spelling error means you're not smart; in fact, if you read my post you would see that I said it would be unfair to assume that it meant that.

As to the professional school achievement, I agree that undergrad GPA is a good predictor of performance. But my post didn't concern undergrad GPA or GPA of any kind; it concerned pharmacy school ranking. What I took issue with was the statement that if someone is from a lower-ranked school, they must not be as smart as someone from a higher-ranked school. I don't think it's fair to judge an individual's competence from their school's ranking.

As I said in my first post, I think the rankings do roughly reflect their students' intelligence or academic abilities. I just think that in evaluating a particular student, that factor should be subordinate to things that actually reflect individual performance (the student's GPA, experiences, etc.).

 

[rxlea]

 

[universalcynic]

I don't think he/she was attacking your intelligence. Maybe poking fun of you a bit.... I do believe he was pointing out the flaw in your argument that as you put it "higher tier equals higher intelligence." I think you are putting too much emphasis on these tiers you are describing. There's so much more that goes into making a decision than saying all the top students go to the top ten schools.
I'll use myself as an example. I am an alternate for a BRAND NEW SCHOOL. It only has pre-candidate status, and I didn't get in. That sucks right? I must not be smart right? Well, two weeks later I got into Purdue. Ranked 7th.
But, if I am accepted, I plan on going to Butler. Ranked 40 something. Why would I ever attend a lower ranked school? I have two children, a husband, and I own my own home. I'd choose to go somewhere else because I won't have to commute 2 hours a day. I'll be able to work. Butler has one of the highest NAPLEX pass rates in the country and they have (though this may be different in 4 years) 100% job placement. These factors far outweigh my desire to attend a top 10 school. Now if I don't get into Butler, I'll happily commute to Purdue and brag about how I go to a top 10 school.

I didn't notice your post earlier, but yes, that's what I was getting at. There's lots of reasons someone might choose a certain school, not just because they couldn't get into a better one.

 

[AmbitiousRX]

I don't think he/she was attacking your intelligence. Maybe poking fun of you a bit.... I do believe he was pointing out the flaw in your argument that as you put it "higher tier equals higher intelligence." I think you are putting too much emphasis on these tiers you are describing. There's so much more that goes into making a decision than saying all the top students go to the top ten schools.
I'll use myself as an example. I am an alternate for a BRAND NEW SCHOOL. It only has pre-candidate status, and I didn't get in. That sucks right? I must not be smart right? Well, two weeks later I got into Purdue. Ranked 7th.
But, if I am accepted, I plan on going to Butler. Ranked 40 something. Why would I ever attend a lower ranked school? I have two children, a husband, and I own my own home. I'd choose to go somewhere else because I won't have to commute 2 hours a day. I'll be able to work. Butler has one of the highest NAPLEX pass rates in the country and they have (though this may be different in 4 years) 100% job placement. These factors far outweigh my desire to attend a top 10 school. Now if I don't get into Butler, I'll happily commute to Purdue and brag about how I go to a top 10 school.

I'm going after a fundamental insecurity of most people by bring up rankings. If I don't get attacked, I'm going to be surprised. I encourage people to attack my view. Bring studies and statistics to back it up. We'll talk.

Then definitely, if you have reason to back your attendance at a lower tire school then it's fine. Butler has a 98.93% NAPLEX passrate it's very good. However, to tell a high school or undergrad student that rankings don't matter is garbage coming from an outdated professional who isn't going to live his life in our(my generation's) competitive world.

Now, now, no need to get hostile. Let's be nice here.

Actually, I don't think I'm in disagreement with you much at all. I wasn't saying that your spelling error means you're not smart; in fact, if you read my post you would see that I said it would be unfair to assume that it meant that.

As to the professional school achievement, I agree that undergrad GPA is a good predictor of performance. But my post didn't concern undergrad GPA or GPA of any kind; it concerned pharmacy school ranking. What I took issue with was the statement that if someone is from a lower-ranked school, they must not be as smart as someone from a higher-ranked school. I don't think it's fair to judge an individual's competence from their school's ranking.

As I said in my first post, I think the rankings do roughly reflect their students' intelligence or academic abilities. I just think that in evaluating a particular student, that factor should be subordinate to things that actually reflect individual performance (the student's GPA, experiences, etc.).

An implication on my part. Getting into top schools generally requires a higher undergrad GPA. However, this is not the only indication of a selective, top school.

Fair enough, but let me put it this way: If you had a student who went to UCSF and came out with a 3.5 and a 3.2, controlled for all other aspects of application, you would higher the 3.5? Right? Why?

@rxlea my reason exactly when I speak to people who say rankings don't matter without any proof at all. Back up your claim. Prove me wrong.

--

You all are forgetting that this thread is about pharmacy being saturated-which isn't the case.

 

[Indypharm]

"However, to tell a high school or undergrad student that rankings don't matter is garbage coming from an outdated professional who isn't going to live his life in our(my generation's) competitive world."

Be careful with this kind of thinking. Pharmacy is very nepotistic. Who you know means a heck of a lot more than your GPA. That outdated professional will probably give you your first job.

 

[AmbitiousRX]

"However, to tell a high school or undergrad student that rankings don't matter is garbage coming from an outdated professional who isn't going to live his life in our(my generation's) competitive world."

Be careful with this kind of thinking. Pharmacy is very nepotistic. Who you know means a heck of a lot more than your GPA. That outdated professional will probably give you your first job.

I know that very well. I don't mean any disrespect to any pharmacists or health professionals but things have changed. Several high profile health professionals(two of which are pharmacists) actually agree with my view. I noticed the retail pharmacists who work their job as opposed to pursue their career say "meh. I didn't even know the rank of my school. Rankings don't matter." I am planning on pursuing a pharmD/MBA. Networking is key. However, I am stubborn. My opinion will not be swayed without proof. You all understand that me being wrong works in my favor, yes? If going to a top school makes no difference on job placement then things are far less competitive.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

I never said there were plenty of jobs in my post. I said the world is getting more competitive. There are plenty of jobs though.

Yup, i stopped reading your garbage after this.

 

[confettiflyer]

I was speaking to a PCOM admissions member(a NEW school mind you) and she told me that only retail is saturated.

Well no **** they'd say that...if your paycheck/livelihood depends on your class getting filled, you've gotta have your head in the sand if you think any statement coming out is unbiased.

Talk to any P4 how the job hunt is going, then go ask a practitioner who is 5 years in how it was when they graduated. Compare, contrast, done.

 

[confettiflyer]

hahaha

hey how's it going

 

[confettiflyer]

If you're at a second tire pharmacy school, you're not as smart as people who are in the first tire pharmacy school.

I prefer Yokohama tires, you usually need a 3rd and 4th tire though...unless you're using a motorcycle.

 

[AmbitiousRX]

Yup, i stopped reading your garbage after this.

Well no **** they'd say that...if your paycheck/livelihood depends on your class getting filled, you've gotta have your head in the sand if you think any statement coming out is unbiased.

Talk to any P4 how the job hunt is going, then go ask a practitioner who is 5 years in how it was when they graduated. Compare, contrast, done.

Blah, blah, blah. All talk with nothing to back your claims. It's a shame. I really do enjoy debating.

Yup, we've already gone over the tier misspelling. Got any more?

 

[oktobre21]

Well no **** they'd say that...if your paycheck/livelihood depends on your class getting filled, you've gotta have your head in the sand if you think any statement coming out is unbiased.

Talk to any P4 how the job hunt is going, then go ask a practitioner who is 5 years in how it was when they graduated. Compare, contrast, done.

Agreed. You really need to direct such a question to people who are in the process of looking for jobs, not to people who are in the process of trying to fill their pharmacy class. Of course you're not going to see absolutely anything being mentioned regarding this saturation issue on schools web pages.

 

[brwnricecracker]

The need for pharmacists only grows.

You know what? Cross that out.
The need for caring and emphatic, pharmacists grows.

 

[confettiflyer]

If Michigan says UCSF has a better pharmacy school don't you think this means something?

No, because UMich has nothing to do with UCSF's grads. A more valid measure is to ask all the employers who have hired UCSF grads how they're doing.

It's like asking French President Nicolas Sarkozy if he thinks Obama is doing a good job. It's an irrelevant measure.

 

[AmbitiousRX]

Agreed. You really need to direct such a question to people who are in the process of looking for jobs, not to people who are in the process of trying to fill their pharmacy class. Of course you're not going to see absolutely anything being mentioned regarding this saturation issue on schools web pages.

I only gave the anecdote as an opener. I don't see any statistics from you skeptics? Can't fight the good fight?

 

[confettiflyer]

The need for pharmacists only grows.

You know what? Cross that out.
The need for caring and emphatic, pharmacists grows.

Real estate prices never drop.

Computers will never replace any jobs.

Heavier than air flying machines are impossible.

etc....etc...

 

[confettiflyer]

I only gave the anecdote as an opener. I don't see any statistics from you skeptics? Can't fight the good fight?

Statistics tell the story of pharmacy about as well as the unemployment rate paints an accurate picture of the job market.

 

[oktobre21]

Blah, blah, blah. All talk with nothing to back your claims. It's a shame. I really do enjoy debating.

Yup, we've already gone over the tier misspelling. Got any more?

No need to get rude. But seriously, how many P4 students have you spoken to? The best of the best students will always have jobs, it's the same for any profession, but if people who are good are not able to get a residency, or the job they want, and have to settle for something they wouldn't really want, then we would be talking about the beginnings of a saturation. And isn't that what is going on?

Enough of this debate, actually. I'm tired. Also, I'm an international so my chances of landing the job I want is even slimmer oh well... We will see what happens in 4 years.

 

[brwnricecracker]

What are your thoughts on this:

Get a dual degree to set yourself apart from the "competition"? Would you spend 3 more years to get another degree to beat the next guy for a full-time or a even a floater position at a high rollin' chain pharmacy?

 

[AmbitiousRX]

No, because UMich has nothing to do with UCSF's grads. A more valid measure is to ask all the employers who have hired UCSF grads how they're doing.

It's like asking French President Nicolas Sarkozy if he thinks Obama is doing a good job. It's an irrelevant measure.

Very good confettiflyer! You're on to something!

Ok fair enough. Pharmacy is often regionally stratified, right? If UCSD staff says UCSF has a better pharmacy program, don't you think this means something?

My point is every institution wants to be number one. U.S. News uses decent methodology for ranking pharmacy schools.

Your example is flawed because in that case they do matter. International affairs is the antithesis of isolation. What Obama does effects Sarkozy's people. Also, you don't think a president evaluating a president is a relevant measure?

 

[Rockinacoustic]

Blah, blah, blah. All talk with nothing to back your claims. It's a shame. I really do enjoy debating.

Yup, we've already gone over the tier misspelling. Got any more?

And what have you given us other than anecdotal conversations and subjective articles on the job market?

Yes there are jobs out there. No they won't come and slap you in the face.
Yes you need to network. No, your schools "ranking" let alone NAPLEX pass rate does not correlate to it's relationships with rotation sites and employers.

You're trying to play devil's advocate, but your arguments are misinformed and your perception of one's competence as a pharmacist is naive at best.

 

[brwnricecracker]

Real estate prices never drop.

Computers will never replace any jobs.

Heavier than air flying machines are impossible.

etc....etc...

*Sigh* I guess you're right.. ya can't change a stiff-necked cynic of a pharmacist to become caring and emphatic and genuinely interested in a patients well-being, for example. Maybe some traits are just innate.

 

[AmbitiousRX]

Statistics tell the story of pharmacy about as well as the unemployment rate paints an accurate picture of the job market.

A statistic regarding available jobs and job growth in the US for pharmacist doesn't reflect the job market for pharmacy?

No need to get rude. But seriously, how many P4 students have you spoken to? The best of the best students will always have jobs, it's the same for any profession, but if people who are good are not able to get a residency, or the job they want, and have to settle for something they wouldn't really want, then we would be talking about the beginnings of a saturation. And isn't that what is going on?

Enough of this debate, actually. I'm tired. Also, I'm an international so my chances of landing the job I want is even slimmer oh well... We will see what happens in 4 years.

I have spoken to several P3 students and recent grads. No P4. However, I have only spoken to the best of the best. You see, your post is sort of my point oktobre. Pharmacy is more competitive. The market isn't saturated. Want to get a job? Be the best. Go to a good school. Get good grades. Network. Can't get a job as a pharmacist? Become a nurse, a firefighter, a PA. Pursue something else.

What are your thoughts on this:

Get a dual degree to set yourself apart from the "competition"? Would you spend 3 more years to get another degree to beat the next guy for a full-time or a even a floater position at a high rollin' chain pharmacy?

Pharmd/MBA programs generally last 5 years. A pharmD/PhD would last a lot longer. I would not pursue a double degree if you want to work at CVS for most of your career. Don't collect degrees. That's just a waste of money. HOWEVER.. I will point you to an interesting study...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2384201/

 

[confettiflyer]

Very good confettiflyer! You're on to something!

Ok fair enough. Pharmacy is often regionally stratified, right? If UCSD staff says UCSF has a better pharmacy program, don't you think this means something?

My point is every institution wants to be number one. U.S. News uses decent methodology for ranking pharmacy schools.

Your example is flawed because in that case they do matter. International affairs is the antithesis of isolation. What Obama does effects Sarkozy's people. Also, you don't think a president evaluating a president is a relevant measure?

Decent methodology? Hah! Maybe for law schools or undergrad schools they use a more extensive methodology, but definitely not for pharmacy. It's a nice bow for a school and gives it a halo effect, but the real meat of what employers consider is the individual performance of each student from a particular school in their program (rotation, residency, employment, etc...). It's truly anecdotal.

Also, a French president's opinion is irrelevant because international sovereignty is what I'm basing my analogy on and, diplomatic affairs aside, the president's performance is insular to his citizens & constrained legally by the constitution. Actions may secondarily affect persons outside of his jurisdiction, but this is a one-way street because feedback only occurs within the borders of the US. French citizens can't vote for the US President.

Similarly, in pharmacy, UMich's opinion of UCSF is fine and dandy, but ultimately UCSF's actions in raising good quality students affects employers who directly employ them. Whereas UMich can't do anything about it except perhaps hold an opinion as a spectator, employers can respond by hiring more/less depending on their intimate knowledge of the school's products.

 

[AmbitiousRX]

And what have you given us other than anecdotal conversations and subjective articles on the job market?

Yes there are jobs out there. No they won't come and slap you in the face.
Yes you need to network. No, your schools "ranking" let alone NAPLEX pass rate does not correlate to it's relationships with rotation sites and employers.

You're trying to play devil's advocate, but your arguments are misinformed and your perception of one's competence as a pharmacist is naive at best.

You don't consider BLS to be a good source?

"No, your schools "ranking" let alone NAPLEX pass rate does not correlate to it's relationships with rotation sites and employers."

That is called a claim. A claim means you need a source. A claim without a source is called an anecdote.

 

[confettiflyer]

*Sigh* I guess you're right.. ya can't change a stiff-necked cynic of a pharmacist to become caring and emphatic and genuinely interested in a patients well-being, for example. Maybe some traits are just innate.

haha, i don't think you understood my response. I was more talking about how people always say this or that job field is secure and there will always be a growing need for pharmacists.

i just gave examples of beliefs that people steadfastly stood by and were soundly proven wrong in spectacular fashion.

 

[confettiflyer]

You don't consider BLS to be a good source?

"No, your schools "ranking" let alone NAPLEX pass rate does not correlate to it's relationships with rotation sites and employers."

That is called a claim. A claim means you need a source. A claim without a source is called an anecdote.

BLS is slllllooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwww, it's been discussed on here before I believe.

and ROFL people still think NAPLEX rates correlate with anything? that test is so freakin' easy, it's an afterthought, most people study for 2 weeks. there's a reason it measures "minimum competency."

 

[confettiflyer]

A statistic regarding available jobs and job growth in the US for pharmacist doesn't reflect the job market for pharmacy?

yup

expanding on this, the statistics are too general and probably don't apply to most of us. Pharmacy is growing? Sure, but if you're a pharmacist in Orange County, California you'd probably laugh; if you're a pharmacist in Kansas, you've had your pick of everything since time began. The fault of any statistics is the wide geography they have to cover.

It's like reading clinical trials and all your pt's are hispanic women but the trials are old white men.

 

[AmbitiousRX]

yup

expanding on this, the statistics are too general and probably don't apply to most of us. Pharmacy is growing? Sure, but if you're a pharmacist in Orange County, California you'd probably laugh; if you're a pharmacist in Kansas, you've had your pick of everything since time began. The fault of any statistics is the wide geography they have to cover.

It's like reading clinical trials and all your pt's are hispanic women but the trials are old white men.

BLS is slllllooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwww, it's been discussed on here before I believe.

and ROFL people still think NAPLEX rates correlate with anything? that test is so freakin' easy, it's an afterthought, most people study for 2 weeks. there's a reason it measures "minimum competency."

Nuff said about this one. lol I think you think that just because you have 4000 posts on a forum you have credential.

Why don't you start posting more links instead of giving us your opinion. Where is the truth behind all the pharmacists without jobs? How many unemployed pharmDs are there in the country? We have already established that some markets are saturated while others are not. Dear lord. For a pharmacists you certainly don't know very much about statistics. I'm pretty sure all pharmacy schools require that. A statistic is a fact of piece of data from a study of a large quantity of numerical data. Of course they're comprehensive.

You don't think NAPLEX correlates with anything? So an 85% pass rate VS 98% reflects nothing on the school and/or student body? Humor me, why?

 

[Rockinacoustic]

You don't consider BLS to be a good source?

"No, your schools "ranking" let alone NAPLEX pass rate does not correlate to it's relationships with rotation sites and employers."

That is called a claim. A claim means you need a source. A claim without a source is called an anecdote.

Let me get this straight. You come on here and post a few subjective government projections on what the job prospects were two years ago, and then make all these wild claims about how GPA, school ranking, and NAPLEX pass rates are the true determinants of competency and job placement as a pharmacist (with no evidence on that end mind you). And now, anyone who disagrees with your opinions without providing a hyperlink is automatically discredited in your mind.

You're new here. Never before has the search button been calling someone's name as it is yours AmbitiousRX.

I'll let you have fun arguing with yourself in the mean time.

 

[rxlea]

hahaha

hey how's it going

it's going

 

[AmbitiousRX]

Let me get this straight. You come on here and post a few subjective government projections on what the job prospects were two years ago, and then make all these wild claims about how GPA, school ranking, and NAPLEX pass rates are the true determinants of competency and job placement as a pharmacist (with no evidence on that end mind you). And now, anyone who disagrees with your opinions without providing a hyperlink is automatically discredited in your mind.

You're new here. Never before has the search button been calling someone's name as it is yours AmbitiousRX.

I'll let you have fun arguing with yourself in the mean time.

Why is the BLS subjective to you? I don't understand this. It isn't subjective at all. Yes, it is outdated and I noted that. The 2012 postings will be out within the next 3 months.

I posted this thread because I wanted to discuss this topic. How are you all even able to think like this? How can GPA, PCAT, rankings NOT effect your success as a pharmacist?

http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/se...&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ164612

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1592/phco.21.9.842.34566/abstract

Just because I'm new here I can't make a post? God forbid I waste my time online all day. All of you are just saying I'm wrong. You have no proof. No evidence at all. Zero. I post peer-reviewed studies and you post "no you!" posts.

Tell me WHY I'm wrong. Give examples, elaborate.

 

[UNMorBUST]

Prepharm telling the students/pharmacists how the jerb market REALLY is.

Knew there was a reason I still read this forum

 

[AmbitiousRX]

Prepharm telling the students/pharmacists how the jerb market REALLY is.

Knew there was a reason I still read this forum

Again and again. You don't have anything to back up your claim.

So you all in pharmacy school truly believe there aren't any jobs in pharmacy..huh

 

[UNMorBUST]

Again and again. You don't have anything to back up your claim.

So you all in pharmacy school truly believe there aren't any jobs in pharmacy..huh

I made no claims Brah. You will be fine, and you will have 50 jerb offers when you graduate. Stop spreading all the good news otherwise everyone and their uncle will want to be pharmacist. Then you will be oversaturated.

 

[AmbitiousRX]

I made no claims Brah. You will be fine, and you will have 50 jerb offers when you graduate. Stop spreading all the good news otherwise everyone and their uncle will want to be pharmacist. Then you will be oversaturated.

Your implied claim was the pre-pharm hopeful doesn't know anything about the real world. Right? I wonder what type of results I would have yielded If I were to register as a pharmacist instead of pre-pharm.

I hope you all realize I don't really care what you all think of me personally. I'm going to defend my profession with facts and figures.

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[owlegrad]

I'd like to to tackle this head on. A lot of members here speak about pharmacy as a whole being over-saturated. Where are the statistics for this number?

I was speaking to a PCOM admissions member(a NEW school mind you) and she told me that only retail is saturated. Almost all pharmacists want to do is get their degree and spend their lives at CVS making their healthy salary. They don't care about anything else. For these people, the market may be saturated. However, we can't use arbitrary anecdotes for something as serious as this. We(I) will use proof.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291051.htm

Now these numbers are from 2010. The new numbers should be out shortly.

Note the rather small RSE(which means the information is fairly reliable). You will see that some states are far from saturated. As a matter of fact, in terms of state vs state, the number of saturated markets to unsaturated markets is 1:1. Also note that it's not just the less populated midwest who are in need of pharmacists. Many east coast states with great school systems and nice neighborhoods are available for pharmacists to work in and start a living.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos079.htm

"Employment is expected to increase faster than average. As a result of job growth, the need to replace workers who leave the occupation, and the limited capacity of training programs, job prospects should be excellent."




"Employment change. Employment of pharmacists is expected to grow by 17 percent between 2008 and 2018, which is faster than the average for all occupations. The increasing numbers of middle-aged and elderly people—who use more prescription drugs than younger people—will continue to spur demand for pharmacists throughout the projection period. In addition, as scientific advances lead to new drug products, and as an increasing number of people obtain prescription drug coverage, the need for these workers will continue to expand."

Job prospect and employment is set the be great. Let's continue.

--

Now here is an article by a SDN writer. Personally, I don't think articles and blogs are are creditable source, but let's use it for sake of my audience.

The main points with pharmacy being saturated are

A. because the economy is in a slump, old pharmacists are not retiring.

B. Since there are so many new pharmacy schools opening up the market is/will be saturated

http://studentdoctor.net/2010/05/sdn-reports-pharmacist-job-outlook/

--

A. This is a legitimate problem. Pharmacy is a very financially secure position. I can totally understand why older pharmacists who may not even NEED to stay in the workplace might want to in order to help their children and grandchildren.

B. Ahh my favorite. I have a feeling I'm going to get labeled as a ranking bigot and an elitist. However, this is how pharmacy(much like medical school) is going to become more competitive. Pharmacists and employers will start paying more attention to where you got your degree and your residency. Just as business school's prestige and rankings enable them to network and obtain high profile internships, and top medical schools open doors to the most appealing residencies, pharmacy will follow suit.

Now let's clarify "rankings and prestige" most don't understand. When considering pharmacy school, yes, the grandaddy of all rankings, U.S. News is what everyone looks at. This is a good indicator of what schools are good because the methodology behind them is peer review. U.S. News asks schools about other schools programs. If Michigan says UCSF has a better pharmacy school don't you think this means something?

HOWEVER it should be noted that the reply rate for these rankings is fairly low. Now, the reply rate is for all colleges and universities asked. U.S. News should be used to get a ballpark estimate on how good a pharmacy school is.

--

The most popular way for judging how good a pharmacy school is NAPLEX pass rate. The NABP publishes this information every single year for every pharmacy school. It accounts for size of the student body and the pass rate. A total pass rate is complied by factoring in the past 5 years of scores.

http://www.nabp.net/programs/examination/naplex/school-pass-rate/

--

As in any market, when things get competitive the best fair better. There is no proof of pharmacy being saturated. There is only speculation.

Moving this awesome discussion to our Job Market MegaThread.

 

[rxlea]

Moving this awesome discussion to our Job Market MegaThread.

Thank god

 

[UNMorBUST]

WHAT!!! How did this get moved here? I wanted to hear the CS major rip everyone a new one. Sheesh haven't any of you learned yet? Become business majors like me... models and bottles ya'll.

 

[brwnricecracker]

haha, i don't think you understood my response. I was more talking about how people always say this or that job field is secure and there will always be a growing need for pharmacists.

i just gave examples of beliefs that people steadfastly stood by and were soundly proven wrong in spectacular fashion.

haha, yeah I was questioning whether or not I understood your post, seriously I have a serious comprehension problem, I should've asked for clarification haha

I've always heard how we need to stop spewing pharmacists but then at a recent open house for a brand new baby pharmacy school, one of the admissions officers said by 2025 there will be shortage. 2025, that's a long time.

 

[AmbitiousRX]

WHAT!!! How did this get moved here? I wanted to hear the CS major rip everyone a new one. Sheesh haven't any of you learned yet? Become business majors like me... models and bottles ya'll.

I'm not trying to rip anyone a new one. I'm trying to explain how there are still jobs in pharmacy. I don't have credential so I used sources.

It seems I'm not going to get anywhere here.

 

[owlegrad]

It seems I'm not going to get anywhere here.

It is odd how pharmacy students do not seem interested in hearing about the job market from a prepharmacy student. Weird.

FWIW, I also use BLS. Pharmacy Manpower is another good source. I haven't found the job market to be as bad as others have, so I am much more optimistic than some people. If I may offer my advice, learning to be a little humble when debating goes a long way towards helping people see your POV. Just a little unsolicited advice.

 

[UNMorBUST]

Agree with Owle. The job market isn't the toilet everywhere. We don't have a surplus in my state. But thats because not many people want to live here. Ahh well, they don't know what they are missing.

 

[taken2]

Your implied claim was the pre-pharm hopeful doesn't know anything about the real world. Right? I wonder what type of results I would have yielded If I were to register as a pharmacist instead of pre-pharm.

I hope you all realize I don't really care what you all think of me personally. I'm going to defend my profession with facts and figures.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Absolutely....finish your prerequisites, get admitted into a pharmacy school first before you can tell people who are licensed and still can't find a job what the job market is like.

 

[AmbitiousRX]

Absolutely....finish your prerequisites, get admitted into a pharmacy school first before you can tell people who are licensed and still can't find a job what the job market is like.

I repeat. I am going to defend my views with facts and figures. I already said the unemployed are in a competetive market. They aren't competitive enough. What market isn't competitive? No one is going to hire a second rate sap over a first rate star. It's a fact of life. Survival of the fittest.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Fair enough owle. As pre-pharm/pharm students I thought we are able to understand elementary communications:
Don't attack the speaker directly, attack his views.

Instead of providing sources to back up all of your claims of pharmacy being an over-saturated market you all saw my status as a pre-pharm major(not knowing anything else about me) and my typo of the word tier and suddenly I was wrong about everything.

Suit yourself.

 

[Jackie B]

Honestly everyone, just let AmbitiousRX do what he/she wants and pursue pharmacy. If we're lucky he/she will come back in 4-5 years and let us know how he/she did.