Pharmacy Job Market/Outlook

[iceman132]

LIKE x 100000000

so. true.

No it's not mean to tell the truth.

It's mean to be condescending and disrespectful. I like how everyone thinks that because their behind a computer screen that they can act like jerks.

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[Jackie B]

After I read all the posts....I think the only thing everyone can agree on, is only time will tell. As a pre-pharmer myself, though, I've found it useful to talk to current students and practicing pharmacists and see what their opinions are regarding saturation. I remember a year ago when I first joined this forum I had a hard time believing the saturation claims too, then I became receptive and started doing my own research/looking at job market trends and have to agree that it's pretty bad out there but do-able if you go out of your way. Unfortunately most people who join fields like this DON'T want to go out of their way or don't see that they have to, because they thought pharmacy school was a golden ticket to the chocolate factory

 

[iceman132]

After I read all the posts....I think the only thing everyone can agree on, is only time will tell. As a pre-pharmer myself, though, I've found it useful to talk to current students and practicing pharmacists and see what their opinions are regarding saturation. I remember a year ago when I first joined this forum I had a hard time believing the saturation claims too, then I became receptive and started doing my own research/looking at job market trends and have to agree that it's pretty bad out there but do-able if you go out of your way. Unfortunately most people who join fields like this DON'T want to go out of their way or don't see that they have to, because they thought pharmacy school was a golden ticket to the chocolate factory

This sounds about right.

And guess what??? Not condescending or immature. I take an opinion like this ten times above someone whose a jerk because they are usually there to help instead of tear other people down.

 

[xKenny]

After I read all the posts....I think the only thing everyone can agree on, is only time will tell. As a pre-pharmer myself, though, I've found it useful to talk to current students and practicing pharmacists and see what their opinions are regarding saturation. I remember a year ago when I first joined this forum I had a hard time believing the saturation claims too, then I became receptive and started doing my own research/looking at job market trends and have to agree that it's pretty bad out there but do-able if you go out of your way. Unfortunately most people who join fields like this DON'T want to go out of their way or don't see that they have to, because they thought pharmacy school was a golden ticket to the chocolate factory

 

[rxlea]

I dont ever let it get to me. At least I can be friends with most of my profs and preceptors without it being "weird"...

This. I love spending time with the faculty. They are interesting and fun. I'd rather hang with them or with my mature colleagues than the binge drinkers.

You are entirely ENTIRELY missing my point and the point of many others in this thread.

It's not that he's OLD. It's PATHETIC that a PERSON HIS AGE is attacking people in their TWENTIES. You should have MORE WISDOM at his age. (Though I was being a bit hypocritical by calling him gramps) He is condescending and completely unhelpful.


Here are some posts that confirm that he has a "thug" mentality and unless you are completely blind the way he describes his welfare patients are akin to ebonics. It is pretty clear with some common sense that he is being racist toward the black community.:


I have no problem being told the job market sucks.... I have a huge problem with people having no respect for others and insulting them. You're not there to be helpful. You're there to make people feel like garbage.

Wearen't talking about the same person, anyway. He is also being immature and ridiculous. But, I'm not going to take anyone seriously that talks that way about patients. It's a disgrace. Ignore it.

Edit: and I take offense to your hostile comments toward me about being blind and the assumption regarding common sense. your defensiveness isn't helpful. We can discuss the job market and related topics differentlyif you want.

 

[rxlea]

I know what a report button is, and there is a reason why I didn't report him. I was basically trying to get the the same massage like this one



across to lisinopril by showing him that making racial stereotype, calling pre pharm "pre-mature" are immature and unnecessary. Maybe I should have worded better.

Like I said, fuel on the fire is useless. I don't see how that comment is racist, though, unless I missed something. Regardless, this thread is stupid. let us get it back on track.

 

[rxlea]

After I read all the posts....I think the only thing everyone can agree on, is only time will tell. As a pre-pharmer myself, though, I've found it useful to talk to current students and practicing pharmacists and see what their opinions are regarding saturation. I remember a year ago when I first joined this forum I had a hard time believing the saturation claims too, then I became receptive and started doing my own research/looking at job market trends and have to agree that it's pretty bad out there but do-able if you go out of your way. Unfortunately most people who join fields like this DON'T want to go out of their way or don't see that they have to, because they thought pharmacy school was a golden ticket to the chocolate factory

Chocolate sounds good right about now

 

[kcwang]

Like I said, fuel on the fire is useless. I don't see how that comment is racist, though, unless I missed something. Regardless, this thread is stupid. let us get it back on track.

This conversation should have ended right after I apologize, and please don't put word in my mouth. I never said it was racist. Stereotype and racist remark are different though they are both stupid. Yes, please let us get it back on track. Thanks

 

[rxlea]

This conversation should have ended right after I apologize, and please don't put word in my mouth. I never said it was racist. Stereotype and racist remark are different though they are both stupid. Yes, please let us get it back on track. Thanks

Sorry "racial stereotype"

 

[Rph888]

Hmmm, so far the only job available seems to be Physicians assistant. (Since I've been told it's worthless to become a computer programmer, pharmacist, nurse, optometrist, and Family Doctor).....



How about saving some money and quitting pharmacy school now since you'll be begging for change in about 2 years?

OMG seriously. Finally someone understands!!! THERE IS HOPE!!

it may not be pa school, but yes computer programmer, pharmacist, nurse, optometrist, and Family Doctor are out

As usual there is a huge disconnect between pre-pharmers and current pharmacy students/pharmacists. Pre-pharmers are dis-illusioned and defensive about pharmacy, bcause it's the career they selected and they don't want to hear anything negative, whereas pharmacy students/pharmacists are in the real world and seeing what is going on. I wish i had a bag of popcorn to go along with this thread

very wise

After I read all the posts....I think the only thing everyone can agree on, is only time will tell. As a pre-pharmer myself, though, I've found it useful to talk to current students and practicing pharmacists and see what their opinions are regarding saturation. I remember a year ago when I first joined this forum I had a hard time believing the saturation claims too, then I became receptive and started doing my own research/looking at job market trends and have to agree that it's pretty bad out there but do-able if you go out of your way. Unfortunately most people who join fields like this DON'T want to go out of their way or don't see that they have to, because they thought pharmacy school was a golden ticket to the chocolate factory

you see its ugly but still pre pharm? talk about confidence!!

 

[Jackie B]

you see its ugly but still pre pharm? talk about confidence!!

That may or may not change, depending on which school I get accepted to. I already got into 2 mediocre schools in my state but decided not to go there regardless if I get in somewhere else or not. Waiting to hear from 2 better schools. I personally see pharmacy like law school or business school now, if you don't get into one that has a huge name (and not necessarily based on national rankings, but locally), involved alumni, great connections, etc, then it's not worth the time/effort to go. For me. So, If I don't get into one of those 2 I have a plan B

 

[rxlea]

That may or may not change, depending on which school I get accepted to. I already got into 2 mediocre schools in my state but decided not to go there regardless if I get in somewhere else or not. Waiting to hear from 2 better schools. I personally see pharmacy like law school or business school now, if you don't get into one that has a huge name (and not necessarily based on national rankings, but locally), involved alumni, great connections, etc, then it's not worth the time/effort to go. For me. So, If I don't get into one of those 2 I have a plan B

Mediocre? Are they new schools? Iwould take the acceptance if I were you if they aren't new schools.

 

[iceman132]

OMG seriously. Finally someone understands!!! THERE IS HOPE!!

it may not be pa school, but yes computer programmer, pharmacist, nurse, optometrist, and Family Doctor are out

Why are you still in pharmacy school. How about cutting your losses and start doing something else. You're so quick to tell other people to get out yet you're still pursuing it.

It's such a terrible field why were you naive enough to go into it.

I get this feeling you're just trying to get people out so you can secure your own spot in the field (As futile as your attempts might be) I could only imagine someone does this because they don't have the skills to network and/or are at the bottom of your class. (I can't imagine another reason why you would just dissuade everyone from going into YOUR field) I'd be flattered that others want to go into my field of expertise. (Even if the economy isn't at its peak)

Jackie B gave a good all around reason to continue to pursue the field and gave a bit of hard truth. She's like a very intelligent pharmacy student I talked to a couple of weeks ago. You are just being a negative nancy.

 

[Jackie B]

Mediocre? Are they new schools? Iwould take the acceptance if I were you if they aren't new schools.

No...not new schools, but schools that tend to be fodder for the chains. They don't seem to have a strong clinical focus so rather not pursue it. Also during my interview I just didn't get a good vibe of the schools and didn't see me (or my 200k) there for 4 years I just can't go somewhere where I'm eh about, not worth my time or money. I have a back-up plan that is career-wise less appealing, but after a +/- analysis it balances out with the negatives of doing pharmacy at those places.


I don't know how to quote someone else lol but iceman says he's surprised someone interested in pharmacy is trying to dissuade him, I find this funny because this has been my experience at 3 different pharmacies I've volunteered at with different pharmacists. When I've told these pharmacists I'm applying to pharmacy school they suddenly get irritated and hound me with questions asking why, instead of, oh that's nice, good for you! Which is what other professionals tell me. They tell me they like it but that I shouldn't go into it, and not because of saturation....I don't know how to explain it, but it seems like they're spoiled children not wanting to share their cookies with someone else. They're way older too so it's not like I'm competition at all. It's weird and it's been CONSISTENTLY my experience. I dunno what it is, but it may or may not be some quirk that's characteristic of individuals who choose pharmacy.

 

[Kansas Pharmer]

Why are you still in pharmacy school. How about cutting your losses and start doing something else. You're so quick to tell other people to get out yet you're still pursuing it.

You are wasting your breath asking him/her that question. I have been a member for almost a year and this is the only stuff I hear out of him/her. :troll:

 

[bw6]

You are wasting your breath asking him/her that question. I have been a member for almost a year and this is the only stuff I hear out of him/her. :troll:

Bahahaha.. This forum is littered with hypocrites. Pharmacists with jobs saying you will never find a job and pharmacy students who bitch and moan but still pay tuition every year.

Get over it people. Pharmacy is not the only area of employment that is tough and saturated. Make yourself stand out. If you just get a PharmD and expect a job to fall into your lap then I laugh at you and certainly do not feel sorry for you. But if you do this and then try to discourage others from the field that you could not succeed in... shame on you.

If you go to a good school, do well, and network then you shouldn't worry. Do your best and be confident that everything will work out. I am so sick of trolls telling everyone not to go into pharmacy. Yeah, don't go into pharmacy if you are going to be a mediocre student or go to a mediocre school.

Make yourself attractive by doing well, not just getting a PharmD.

And for God's sake, if you are here to tell everyone how you can't find a job, maybe you should spend more time making yourself a competitive applicant and less time trying to scare the **** out of little pre-pharmacy kids just trying to find their place in the work force.

 

[iceman132]

I don't know how to quote someone else lol but iceman says he's surprised someone interested in pharmacy is trying to dissuade him, I find this funny because this has been my experience at 3 different pharmacies I've volunteered at with different pharmacists. When I've told these pharmacists I'm applying to pharmacy school they suddenly get irritated and hound me with questions asking why, instead of, oh that's nice, good for you! Which is what other professionals tell me. They tell me they like it but that I shouldn't go into it, and not because of saturation....I don't know how to explain it, but it seems like they're spoiled children not wanting to share their cookies with someone else. They're way older too so it's not like I'm competition at all. It's weird and it's been CONSISTENTLY my experience. I dunno what it is, but it may or may not be some quirk that's characteristic of individuals who choose pharmacy.

I'll tell you something a kind grandfatherly pharmacist once told me.... (Paraphrased)

"The younger generation has better education than us older folks."

I think it is fear of the newer generation pushing them out. I have never had an experience where a pharmacist was a jerk to me .... They have always been respectful and kind....but this is the only reasonable explanation I can think of.

 

[hsb1104]

This might be a stupid question, but does tech experience matter at all when looking for a job as a pharmacist? I've been a tech for 8 years... fell into this field by accident from working in the front store at CVS and taking a position in the pharmacy. I've been working as a hospital pharm tech for the past 6. Reading all this is sort of bumming me out... I'm finishing my bachelors degree now and decided to make the plunge into pharmacy school.. I feel like I've been living in a bubble because my hospital is always hiring and actually we just hired several new grads BEFORE they even passed their boards. I'm just curious if this experience is going to have any use to me as far as getting a job in the future or if it's going to be irrelevant minus my personal knowledge gain from it (obviously i mean at other institutions other than the one I currently work at.. obviously it would offer me an advantage there)

 

[Rph888]

Why are you still in pharmacy school. How about cutting your losses and start doing something else. You're so quick to tell other people to get out yet you're still pursuing it.

It's such a terrible field why were you naive enough to go into it.

I get this feeling you're just trying to get people out so you can secure your own spot in the field (As futile as your attempts might be) I could only imagine someone does this because they don't have the skills to network and/or are at the bottom of your class. (I can't imagine another reason why you would just dissuade everyone from going into YOUR field) I'd be flattered that others want to go into my field of expertise. (Even if the economy isn't at its peak)

Jackie B gave a good all around reason to continue to pursue the field and gave a bit of hard truth. She's like a very intelligent pharmacy student I talked to a couple of weeks ago. You are just being a negative nancy.

i like that title "negative nancy" it fits so nicely!!

I was naive to go into pharmacy, you are correct. I find redemption through my community service here on sdn. I figure if I can help just one student see the light, the truth--I have succeeded.

Don't think i am looking to secure my own spot. there are so many applicants it doesn't matter to the schools. I am only here to help the blind who cannot see the truth. For this blindness can be cured, cured with knowledge--knowledge is power.

When you see first hand your own colleagues being laid off and terminated your tone will change.
Spending 3-4 years in college plus tuition to enter a field like this in 2012 is not safe...

Bahahaha.. This forum is littered with hypocrites. Pharmacists with jobs saying you will never find a job and pharmacy students who bitch and moan but still pay tuition every year.

Get over it people. Pharmacy is not the only area of employment that is tough and saturated. Make yourself stand out. If you just get a PharmD and expect a job to fall into your lap then I laugh at you and certainly do not feel sorry for you. But if you do this and then try to discourage others from the field that you could not succeed in... shame on you.

If you go to a good school, do well, and network then you shouldn't worry. Do your best and be confident that everything will work out. I am so sick of trolls telling everyone not to go into pharmacy. Yeah, don't go into pharmacy if you are going to be a mediocre student or go to a mediocre school.

Make yourself attractive by doing well, not just getting a PharmD.

And for God's sake, if you are here to tell everyone how you can't find a job, maybe you should spend more time making yourself a competitive applicant and less time trying to scare the **** out of little pre-pharmacy kids just trying to find their place in the work force.

lol shame on me for being the bearer of bad news!! negative nancy is at it again!

come on!! you talk about standing out like its the new iPAD, like its a new invention and a saving grace at the same time!! Tell that to my old boss who ran pharmacies for 10+ years and has 3 kids and mortgage to pay!!!

news flash America's largest pharmacy started the new year right with an old-fashioned hiring freeze and has been on/off with hiring freezes for some time.
123 Layoff notices go to central pharmacy workers in Miami.

I love doing my community service

 

[iceman132]

i like that title "negative nancy" it fits so nicely!!

I was naive to go into pharmacy, you are correct. I find redemption through my community service here on sdn. I figure if I can help just one student see the light, the truth--I have succeeded.

Don't think i am looking to secure my own spot. there are so many applicants it doesn't matter to the schools. I am only here to help the blind who cannot see the truth. For this blindness can be cured, cured with knowledge--knowledge is power.

When you see first hand your own colleagues being laid off and terminated your tone will change.
Spending 3-4 years in college plus tuition to enter a field like this in 2012 is not safe...

:

What knowledge? That it's difficult to get a job? Thanks chief. I like how you dodge all my questions though. It's cute and shows what type of individual you are.

You're terrible at trying to get kids to quit pharmacy. If you haven't noticed it isn't deterring anyone. If anything, you're making people want to work harder (You're actually shooting yourself in the foot)

Wasting your time trying to scare people instead of studying so you can become a productive member of society is a good way to put yourself into that jobless pool though. Good job trying to feed your family with your horrible attempt at "community service" aka contributing nothing.

 

[BadgerPharm]

I still don't understand...why? why? why is this conversation still going on? Like Lea said, fuel to the fire...

 

[iceman132]

I still don't understand...why? why? why is this conversation still going on? Like Lea said, fuel to the fire...

There have been a couple of interesting stories I have gotten out of this. I have personally never heard of pharmacists urging people to get out of the field.

I have no problem if people would give out articles and whatnot to support how hard it is to get a job ... Or share life experiences and helpful advice. However, there is a way in which to go about this....

 

[pinipig523]

There have been a couple of interesting stories I have gotten out of this. I have personally never heard of pharmacists urging people to get out of the field.

I have no problem if people would give out articles and whatnot to support how hard it is to get a job ... Or share life experiences and helpful advice. However, there is a way in which to go about this....

My own perspective of this:

Pharmacy is not what it was like approximately 5 years ago.

How do I know?

My wife is a pharmacist and she has noted a very distinct change in the market, the staffing, and the overall climate of the field. 5 years ago, it was very easy to land a job - there were openings everywhere. Now? I'm having a difficult time getting her to land a job in a new market. We are moving from Chicago to Dallas. Very meager offerings to say the least. Believe me, I'd rather be wrong and my wife find a job quick - there's nothing to be gained from spreading false information on these forums. I'm crossing my fingers that my wife finds a job soon.

And to those who said that the field of medicine is bad - from my experience, it is still pretty decent.

Where I applied in Dallas - I got 3 offers for a job. This is very impressive in this economy. I took 2 of them.

My 2 cents.

 

[owlegrad]

All great posts. Lets move them to the appropriate thread.

 

[iceman132]

My own perspective of this:

Pharmacy is not what it was like approximately 5 years ago.

How do I know?

My wife is a pharmacist and she has noted a very distinct change in the market, the staffing, and the overall climate of the field. 5 years ago, it was very easy to land a job - there were openings everywhere. Now? I'm having a difficult time getting her to land a job in a new market. We are moving from Chicago to Dallas. Very meager offerings to say the least. Believe me, I'd rather be wrong and my wife find a job quick - there's nothing to be gained from spreading false information on these forums. I'm crossing my fingers that my wife finds a job soon.

And to those who said that the field of medicine is bad - from my experience, it is still pretty decent.

Where I applied in Dallas - I got 3 offers for a job. This is very impressive in this economy. I took 2 of them.

My 2 cents.

What would your wife's advice be to a person who wants to go pre-pharm? (Let's say she had to do it all over again)

Network more? Study harder? Go to a better school? Or just give up on pharmacy all together?

 

[pinipig523]

What would your wife's advice be to a person who wants to go pre-pharm? (Let's say she had to do it all over again)

Network more? Study harder? Go to a better school? Or just give up on pharmacy all together?

Go if you want to be a pharmacist, but don't acquire $200K worth of loans to get into it. The rapid change (for the worse) of the job market may prove detrimental to those with huge loans.

 

[Nelcovp]

The market will saturate because it can. New schools continue to open and current schools continue to raise the acceptance numbers. As long as people are willing to pay for an education, this will continue to happen. My school just went from 100 students to 150 students. This does not benefit the student in any way, but increases the school income by 50%.

It's like the yellow pages. Ever notice how many plumbers, lawyers, etc advertise in there? As long as people are willing to cough up the money for the space, they will continue to add pages without a genuine care of how the advertisers do after the money is given. If the ad fails, the yellow pages already has the money and another advertiser will come along. Just like with school (any school), if the student is unemployed, the school already has the money and there will always be another student.

It really is a sad cycle.

 

[PharmaTope]

so is everyone separating themselves from the pack by doing ASHP and APhA memberships?

How's those residencies doing as far as getting you new jobs?

Call me gloom and doom, but I was 100% right.

 

[pezdispenser]

Go if you want to be a pharmacist, but don't acquire $200K worth of loans to get into it. The rapid change (for the worse) of the job market may prove detrimental to those with huge loans.

Yeah I like this advice. Especially for those who think IBR/PSLF will be their magic bullet.

 

[njac]

so is everyone separating themselves from the pack by doing ASHP and APhA memberships?

How's those residencies doing as far as getting you new jobs?

Call me gloom and doom, but I was 100% right.

My PGy2 landed me a job just outside a major metro area making more than most just a year ago.

So it served me just fine.

 

[pharm B]

My PGy2 landed me a job just outside a major metro area making more than most just a year ago.

So it served me just fine.

A classmate of mine complained when he didn't "get the job" because he was competing against residents for the position. He somehow used this event as proof that residencies are a huge waste of time.

Keep your head low, don't be obnoxious, and make sure people remember you in a positive way, and you'll have a better chance of getting a job than those who can't.

 

[rxlea]

A classmate of mine complained when he didn't "get the job" because he was competing against residents for the position. He somehow used this event as proof that residencies are a huge waste of time.

Keep your head low, don't be obnoxious, and make sure people remember you in a positive way, and you'll have a better chance of getting a job than those who can't.

I don't understand all the complaining... some students really don't get how small of a world pharmacy is.

 

[sfwusc]

My school still have 100% placement. Is it like it was? No. My father would get recruiter calls almost daily years ago. Do you see a lot of unemployed pharmacist that can and want to work, but can't find a job? Nope.

 

[lisinopril]

Lies....and more lies...and in denial...

 

[deleted421268]

I've been told that the pharmacy job market is bad lately?? Is this truee??? I'm considering becoming either a pharmacist or a Doctor yet don't knock which of the two to become. Thanks for feedback.

 

[owlegrad]

Maybe our monster "job market" thread will be able to help you. Moving.

 

[KARM12]

Queue post where some pre-pharm pastes a link for pharmacist jobs from monster.com....

SEE THERE ARE A MILLION JOBS!

 

[Lethstang]

Im a dental student. I can only tell you what Ive gleaned from my experiences.

1. Just had a drink with a pharm D with ten years experience. Unemployed. Cant find a job.
2. Ran into a hot asian pharm D on st paddies day. She says, IIRC, that she was happy with her job and had gainful employment.
3. Ive heard from pharms that a large problem is a company doesnt want to pay someone with lots of experience, as they can get by just fine by having a rookie with a license around as opposed someone they have to pay 40k more.
4. I wouldnt imagine the move to online pharmacies can be good for the profession.
5. 200k in debt for an income ceiling of what, 200k? Would scare the **** out of me.
6. the population is getting older issue. We always have that going for us.

Goodluck out there

 

[Rxbuddy]

Im a dental student. I can only tell you what Ive gleaned from my experiences.

1. Just had a drink with a pharm D with ten years experience. Unemployed. Cant find a job.
2. Ran into a hot asian pharm D on st paddies day. She says, IIRC, that she was happy with her job and had gainful employment.
3. Ive heard from pharms that a large problem is a company doesnt want to pay someone with lots of experience, as they can get by just fine by having a rookie with a license around as opposed someone they have to pay 40k more.
4. I wouldnt imagine the move to online pharmacies can be good for the profession.
5. 200k in debt for an income ceiling of what, 200k? Would scare the **** out of me.
6. the population is getting older issue. We always have that going for us.

Goodluck out there

What you just said is true to the dental field also. Dentistry is saturated here in Texas. It's the connections you make and how well you do. True to any and every position out there.

 

[Lethstang]

What you just said is true to the dental field also. Dentistry is saturated here in Texas. It's the connections you make and how well you do. True to any and every position out there.

I totally agree. Dentistry is super saturated in some areas, but if youo are willing to move, you can definitely get a job. Is it the same for pharm?

 

[Rxbuddy]

I totally agree. Dentistry is super saturated in some areas, but if youo are willing to move, you can definitely get a job. Is it the same for pharm?

Absolutely. Some states in America have a dire need for the profession. So, this shouldn't deter anyone from pursuing either field. My friend in my pharm school just got two job offers and he hasn't even graduated yet.
So good luck and study hard ppl!

 

[AmbitiousRX]

I'd like to to tackle this head on. A lot of members here speak about pharmacy as a whole being over-saturated. Where are the statistics for this number?

I was speaking to a PCOM admissions member(a NEW school mind you) and she told me that only retail is saturated. Almost all pharmacists want to do is get their degree and spend their lives at CVS making their healthy salary. They don't care about anything else. For these people, the market may be saturated. However, we can't use arbitrary anecdotes for something as serious as this. We(I) will use proof.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291051.htm

Now these numbers are from 2010. The new numbers should be out shortly.

Note the rather small RSE(which means the information is fairly reliable). You will see that some states are far from saturated. As a matter of fact, in terms of state vs state, the number of saturated markets to unsaturated markets is 1:1. Also note that it's not just the less populated midwest who are in need of pharmacists. Many east coast states with great school systems and nice neighborhoods are available for pharmacists to work in and start a living.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos079.htm

"Employment is expected to increase faster than average. As a result of job growth, the need to replace workers who leave the occupation, and the limited capacity of training programs, job prospects should be excellent."




"Employment change. Employment of pharmacists is expected to grow by 17 percent between 2008 and 2018, which is faster than the average for all occupations. The increasing numbers of middle-aged and elderly people—who use more prescription drugs than younger people—will continue to spur demand for pharmacists throughout the projection period. In addition, as scientific advances lead to new drug products, and as an increasing number of people obtain prescription drug coverage, the need for these workers will continue to expand."

Job prospect and employment is set the be great. Let's continue.

--

Now here is an article by a SDN writer. Personally, I don't think articles and blogs are are creditable source, but let's use it for sake of my audience.

The main points with pharmacy being saturated are

A. because the economy is in a slump, old pharmacists are not retiring.

B. Since there are so many new pharmacy schools opening up the market is/will be saturated

http://studentdoctor.net/2010/05/sdn-reports-pharmacist-job-outlook/

--

A. This is a legitimate problem. Pharmacy is a very financially secure position. I can totally understand why older pharmacists who may not even NEED to stay in the workplace might want to in order to help their children and grandchildren.

B. Ahh my favorite. I have a feeling I'm going to get labeled as a ranking bigot and an elitist. However, this is how pharmacy(much like medical school) is going to become more competitive. Pharmacists and employers will start paying more attention to where you got your degree and your residency. Just as business school's prestige and rankings enable them to network and obtain high profile internships, and top medical schools open doors to the most appealing residencies, pharmacy will follow suit.

Now let's clarify "rankings and prestige" most don't understand. When considering pharmacy school, yes, the grandaddy of all rankings, U.S. News is what everyone looks at. This is a good indicator of what schools are good because the methodology behind them is peer review. U.S. News asks schools about other schools programs. If Michigan says UCSF has a better pharmacy school don't you think this means something?

HOWEVER it should be noted that the reply rate for these rankings is fairly low. Now, the reply rate is for all colleges and universities asked. U.S. News should be used to get a ballpark estimate on how good a pharmacy school is.

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The most popular way for judging how good a pharmacy school is NAPLEX pass rate. The NABP publishes this information every single year for every pharmacy school. It accounts for size of the student body and the pass rate. A total pass rate is complied by factoring in the past 5 years of scores.

http://www.nabp.net/programs/examination/naplex/school-pass-rate/

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As in any market, when things get competitive the best fair better. There is no proof of pharmacy being saturated. There is only speculation.

 

[Pojman]

Great post! Thank you!

Before all of the people who really don't know what the heck they are talking about jump into this thread to tell us that there are no jobs in pharmacy - I would like to post post a link to a website that is currently posting countless jobs for pharmacists all over America.

http://www.rxcareercenter.com/

The physical proof is right there. Anyone who says otherwise simply enjoys to hear themselves talk.

 

[bacillus1]

Hmm...tell that to people in my class (P4) still unable to find jobs, and I can't say that they aren't looking. I wonder how they'll react. Also tell that to the people in my class unable to match with residencies because that's so competitive now as well.

 

[Pojman]

Hmm...tell that to people in my class (P4) still unable to find jobs, and I can't say that they aren't looking. I wonder how they'll react. Also tell that to the people in my class unable to match with residencies because that's so competitive now as well.

Do these people in your class have internet access? I am still an undergraduate (applying for pharm school this fall), and I already have a job lined up for myself after I am finished school.

What the heck are these people doing that can not find jobs? I am sorry, but some people lack the ambition needed to network effectively.

 

[AmbitiousRX]

Hmm...tell that to people in my class (P4) still unable to find jobs, and I can't say that they aren't looking. I wonder how they'll react. Also tell that to the people in my class unable to match with residencies because that's so competitive now as well.

Do you know what I have to say to that bacillus? Tough. You, me, and your peers need to be competitive. If you're at a second tire pharmacy school, you're not as smart as people who are in the first tire pharmacy school. If you're at a first tire pharmacy school and you're jobless, you should have had a higher GPA. Plain and simple. The numbers don't lie, the jobs are out there--the world is a hella lot more competitive now so it doesn't seem so..but they're out there.

You are not good enough. I don't want you to be my pharmacist. I want the other guy with the higher GPA and pharmD from more reputable school to be my pharmacist. I know it sounds harsh but pharmacy is filled with mediocrity. You don't need to complete an undergraduate degree unlike other professional schools. You can go to community college, transfer to a third rate state uni and get into a new pharmacy school with low standards and become a pharmacists. I hate how this is. I really want to push for improving pharmacy and setting higher standards.

As an undergrad who came from a fairly good public high school(in my graduating class of 671: 3 harvards, 12 NYU, 5 upenn, 3 yales, etc, 0% drop out rate, number 1 in my state, nationally ranked) who now goes to a second rate university(planning to transfer), I have seen both ends of the spectrum. Those kids that go to reputable, well-established pharmacy schools UNC, UCSF, Michigan, Ohio State, KU, Udub, etc. are better off than those who go to new pharmacy schools. They're smarter, better networked, and more ambitious than people who can't get into good schools the first time around(or at all) much my like myself.

Now, obviously cost and location need to be factored into your selection. Not all of us want to or are able to dish out 100k+ for pharmacy school. You should cater your selection to your needs.

However, it isn't fair to say the jobs aren't out there because that isn't true at all.

Survival of the fittest everyone. Be competitive and be strong.

 

[Its Z]

When it rains, it pours... I'm hiring 2 full time pharmacists and 2 PRNs..

 

[bacillus1]

Do you know what I have to say to that bacillus? Tough. You, me, and your peers need to be competitive. If you're at a second tire pharmacy school, you're not as smart as people who are in the first tire pharmacy school. If you're at a first tire pharmacy school and you're jobless, you should have had a higher GPA. Plain and simple. The numbers don't lie, the jobs are out there--the world is a hella lot more competitive now so it doesn't seem so..but they're out there.

You are not good enough. I don't want you to be my pharmacist. I want the other guy with the higher GPA and pharmD from more reputable school to be my pharmacist. I know it sounds harsh but pharmacy is filled with mediocrity. You don't need to complete an undergraduate degree unlike other professional schools. You can go to community college, transfer to a third rate state uni and get into a new pharmacy school with low standards and become a pharmacists. I hate how this is. I really want to push for improving pharmacy and setting higher standards.

As an undergrad who came from a fairly good public high school(in my graduating class of 671: 3 harvards, 12 NYU, 5 upenn, 3 yales, etc, 0% drop out rate, number 1 in my state, nationally ranked) who now goes to a second rate university(planning to transfer), I have seen both ends of the spectrum. Those kids that go to reputable, well-established pharmacy schools UNC, UCSF, Michigan, Ohio State, KU, Udub, etc. are better off than those who go to new pharmacy schools. They're smarter, better networked, and more ambitious than people who can't get into good schools the first time around(or at all) much my like myself.

Now, obviously cost and location need to be factored into your selection. Not all of us want to or are able to dish out 100k+ for pharmacy school. You should cater your selection to your needs.

However, it isn't fair to say the jobs aren't out there because that isn't true at all.

Survival of the fittest everyone. Be competitive and be strong.

I partially agree with you. I will not dissuade everyone from pharmacy just because of the lack of jobs. If you like pharmacy, go ahead and do it. I was just saying that the OP presents an inaccurate picture by saying that there are plenty of jobs out there.

Also, I must add, a lot of the residents I talked to also are having a hard time finding clinical pharmacist positions. In fact, I was at first hesitant about the program I ended up matching with because they haven't hired any of their residents over the past 2 years, due to a lack of open positions at the hospital. I agree with you that that shouldn't deter people from pursuing a residency if they really want to be clinical pharmacists, I just don't agree with people who present evidence about abundant jobs.

 

[oktobre21]

I agree with bacillus. I wouldn't tell someone to not pursue their dream career, but I think a more accurate picture of the profession needs to be given to students so they are making an informed choice. We all know about the many new schools opening up and the increase in the number of pharmacy graduates over the past decade. These schools may not be well-established (yet), but they will be one day. I agree with the OP on one point, that if you network well and are willing to relocate, then you will get a job; it just might not be the job you dreamed of when you began your career as a student pharmacist.

 

[AmbitiousRX]

I partially agree with you. I will not dissuade everyone from pharmacy just because of the lack of jobs. If you like pharmacy, go ahead and do it. I was just saying that the OP presents an inaccurate picture by saying that there are plenty of jobs out there.

Also, I must add, a lot of the residents I talked to also are having a hard time finding clinical pharmacist positions. In fact, I was at first hesitant about the program I ended up matching with because they haven't hired any of their residents over the past 2 years, due to a lack of open positions at the hospital. I agree with you that that shouldn't deter people from pursuing a residency if they really want to be clinical pharmacists, I just don't agree with people who present evidence about abundant jobs.

I never said there were plenty of jobs in my post. I said the world is getting more competitive. There are plenty of jobs though. The number of pharmacy schools opening may not match job openings but the jobs exist. If you're smart and you go to a good school and you're ambitious and network and have a strong resume, you will get a job. A good job at that. It's the same thing for everything. A saturated market is a market for journalism.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos088.htm

Interesting point regarding clincial pharmacy, however, you did not use a source for that. Arbitrary anecdote is not acceptable. I only used my PCOM example because arbitrary anecdote is the only way people on this board function(from what I've seen. I'm new here)

As the BLS shows, some states are more saturated than others. Are you in a saturated state? You may want to consider joining a pharmacy group or kappa psi so that you can network and break into other emerging fields of pharmacy such as nuclear pharmacy. Maybe you can start up a business with a physician. Would i love to have to not drive to Costco every time I get medication from the doctor.

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oktober, I disagree with new schools becoming established. Older schools have stronger alumni and stronger connections with more recognition in medicine. I don't see how Xavier university will ever be able to compete with Kentucky. In order to do so, you need smarter students and better faculty to bring your NAPLEX score higher with a bigger student body. You need to have better funding and research so you get more applicants and more money to fund your school.