Amy B
I miss my son so much
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After the debate about DO verses MD and whether or not we would be looked upon as less of a doctor, and a previous poster's talk about the DOs they work with telling them not to apply DO, I felt compelled to email the DO at the site listed in the thread.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=99205&perpage=20&pagenumber=3
Here is my email and his response.
"""Greetings Dr. Orons,
I am a member of SDN, a student doctor forum on the Internet. I have been accepted to Virginia College of Osteopathic Medicine and will start there this fall. We are all having a debate about whether or not DOs are thought to be inferior to MDs out in the working world of health care. A poster stumbled onto the UPMC web site and saw that you are the director of the Radiology Residency program at a MD medical school location. This is an ongoing debate at SDN and was wondering if you would be willing to give us some imput about how you feel?
My questions to you if you wouldn't mind answering is do you feel you have a stigma attached to yourself for being an DO verses an MD? And if you had it to do over, would you still have chosen to become a DO?Thank you for your help,
Subject: RE: A question from a student
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:13:08 -0500
Dear Amy,
This is an interesting debate, and one which has been ongoing since A.T. Still was making his rounds in Missouri in the late 1800s. I graduated from PCOM in 1986 and remember hearing something during my first year about a supposed study that was performed by the ACGME or some other allopathic body looking at the average credentials of osteopathic first year medical students vs. those of first year allopathic students. Apparently, the purpose of the study was to determine if there was a difference between M.D. and D.O. students academically.
Supposedly, the study found that there was no statistically significant difference between the two groups with respect to MCAT scores, grades, etc, but to my knowledge, the study was never published. My father is a D.O. and I became an osteopathic physician because I admired the way my father practiced medicine. I was really not aware of the differences between the way M.D.s and D.O.s were regarded, or the issues D.O.s faced once they reached the level of postgraduate training and clinical practice.
I didn't apply to any allopathic schools. I believed then, and I believe now, there is no meaningful difference between the quality of education received by D.O.s and M.D.s at the medical school level. The curricula, resources, and faculty are very similar - sometimes even identical and shared between schools. However, I believe that in postgraduate training, and especially when it comes to subspecialty fields, there may be enormous differences in the opportunities available to D.O.s.
To say that D.O.s are believed inferior to M.D.s in the working world of health care is to paint with a very broad brush to say the least. However, when individuals are being considered for competitive postgraduate training opportunities at academic allopathic institutions, D.O.s are definitely at a disadvantage. There are some individuals in the academic allopathic world (and probably more than a few in osteopathic medicine as well) who believe that many (even most?) individuals who end up in an osteopathic medical school do so for the same reason some people end up attending medical school in the Caribbean - because they were rejected from M.D. schools. And let's face it - for some individuals this is indeed the case.
Hopefully, most people who pursue an osteopathic education do so because they find the osteopathic philosophy appealing. Because some people (even in my own institution) do feel this way, I believe osteopathic students and residents have to work that much harder to put their best efforts forward at all times. When we have the occasional resident who comes through our department who is not where he or she should be in terms of knowledge base, or worse, in terms of effort put forth, they may be looked at differently by some depending on the initials after their name. If their degree is M.D., a comment might be "dumb", or "geeze, he's lazy!". If the person is a D.O., the comment might be "Oh, he's a D.O." as if such behavior or performance is less surprising because less is expected of that person.
The most important thing for any D.O. (let's face it - for any physician) to do is to always put their full effort into their work. There is no substitute for work ethic and dedication. Would I do it again? I would. I have had some measure of success in the allopathic world and I am proud of my training and background. Maybe some of my success was just being in the right place at the right time, but I hope it was because when I was given the chance to compete with M.D.s on their turf, I gave enough effort to be seen not as a D.O. trying to compete in an M.D.'s world, but just as another physician in training, and then as faculty, who was doing a good job.
Some others, however, may have difficulty getting the chance to show what they're made of; some subspecialty fields are so competitive, D.O.s may find it harder to get the opportunity to train in them at large academic institutions. Unfortunately, there are very few large academic osteopathic institutions, and I believe that these types of institutions, in general, are at an advantage in terms of the ability to provide the best subspecialty education and training in some fields.
However, most physicians end up in private practice or on staff at smaller institutions with completely mixed staffs and whether one is an M.D. or a D.O. is completely irrelevant. Also, there is little difference in training between allopathic and osteopathic institutions in primary care and general medical fields. There are other issues as well with regard to primary care vs. specialty fields, and the choices of M.D.s vs. D.O.s, but this is a separate discussion. I would be happy to discuss these things with you in more detail if you would like.
Best of luck in your future training. If the right effort is put into your career, you can achieve any goals you set for yourself. I am proud of my osteopathic background and I know that D.O.s are equal to M.D.s in every way. Don't ever be ashamed or embarrassed by your choices.
Sincerely,
Philip D. Orons, D.O.
Associate Professor of Radiology
Director, Radiology Residency Program
UPMC Health System
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=99205&perpage=20&pagenumber=3
Here is my email and his response.
"""Greetings Dr. Orons,
I am a member of SDN, a student doctor forum on the Internet. I have been accepted to Virginia College of Osteopathic Medicine and will start there this fall. We are all having a debate about whether or not DOs are thought to be inferior to MDs out in the working world of health care. A poster stumbled onto the UPMC web site and saw that you are the director of the Radiology Residency program at a MD medical school location. This is an ongoing debate at SDN and was wondering if you would be willing to give us some imput about how you feel?
My questions to you if you wouldn't mind answering is do you feel you have a stigma attached to yourself for being an DO verses an MD? And if you had it to do over, would you still have chosen to become a DO?Thank you for your help,
Subject: RE: A question from a student
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:13:08 -0500
Dear Amy,
This is an interesting debate, and one which has been ongoing since A.T. Still was making his rounds in Missouri in the late 1800s. I graduated from PCOM in 1986 and remember hearing something during my first year about a supposed study that was performed by the ACGME or some other allopathic body looking at the average credentials of osteopathic first year medical students vs. those of first year allopathic students. Apparently, the purpose of the study was to determine if there was a difference between M.D. and D.O. students academically.
Supposedly, the study found that there was no statistically significant difference between the two groups with respect to MCAT scores, grades, etc, but to my knowledge, the study was never published. My father is a D.O. and I became an osteopathic physician because I admired the way my father practiced medicine. I was really not aware of the differences between the way M.D.s and D.O.s were regarded, or the issues D.O.s faced once they reached the level of postgraduate training and clinical practice.
I didn't apply to any allopathic schools. I believed then, and I believe now, there is no meaningful difference between the quality of education received by D.O.s and M.D.s at the medical school level. The curricula, resources, and faculty are very similar - sometimes even identical and shared between schools. However, I believe that in postgraduate training, and especially when it comes to subspecialty fields, there may be enormous differences in the opportunities available to D.O.s.
To say that D.O.s are believed inferior to M.D.s in the working world of health care is to paint with a very broad brush to say the least. However, when individuals are being considered for competitive postgraduate training opportunities at academic allopathic institutions, D.O.s are definitely at a disadvantage. There are some individuals in the academic allopathic world (and probably more than a few in osteopathic medicine as well) who believe that many (even most?) individuals who end up in an osteopathic medical school do so for the same reason some people end up attending medical school in the Caribbean - because they were rejected from M.D. schools. And let's face it - for some individuals this is indeed the case.
Hopefully, most people who pursue an osteopathic education do so because they find the osteopathic philosophy appealing. Because some people (even in my own institution) do feel this way, I believe osteopathic students and residents have to work that much harder to put their best efforts forward at all times. When we have the occasional resident who comes through our department who is not where he or she should be in terms of knowledge base, or worse, in terms of effort put forth, they may be looked at differently by some depending on the initials after their name. If their degree is M.D., a comment might be "dumb", or "geeze, he's lazy!". If the person is a D.O., the comment might be "Oh, he's a D.O." as if such behavior or performance is less surprising because less is expected of that person.
The most important thing for any D.O. (let's face it - for any physician) to do is to always put their full effort into their work. There is no substitute for work ethic and dedication. Would I do it again? I would. I have had some measure of success in the allopathic world and I am proud of my training and background. Maybe some of my success was just being in the right place at the right time, but I hope it was because when I was given the chance to compete with M.D.s on their turf, I gave enough effort to be seen not as a D.O. trying to compete in an M.D.'s world, but just as another physician in training, and then as faculty, who was doing a good job.
Some others, however, may have difficulty getting the chance to show what they're made of; some subspecialty fields are so competitive, D.O.s may find it harder to get the opportunity to train in them at large academic institutions. Unfortunately, there are very few large academic osteopathic institutions, and I believe that these types of institutions, in general, are at an advantage in terms of the ability to provide the best subspecialty education and training in some fields.
However, most physicians end up in private practice or on staff at smaller institutions with completely mixed staffs and whether one is an M.D. or a D.O. is completely irrelevant. Also, there is little difference in training between allopathic and osteopathic institutions in primary care and general medical fields. There are other issues as well with regard to primary care vs. specialty fields, and the choices of M.D.s vs. D.O.s, but this is a separate discussion. I would be happy to discuss these things with you in more detail if you would like.
Best of luck in your future training. If the right effort is put into your career, you can achieve any goals you set for yourself. I am proud of my osteopathic background and I know that D.O.s are equal to M.D.s in every way. Don't ever be ashamed or embarrassed by your choices.
Sincerely,
Philip D. Orons, D.O.
Associate Professor of Radiology
Director, Radiology Residency Program
UPMC Health System
He sounds like a nice professor.
This thread is hilarious.
