Community College vs University for Prereqs (2 merged threads)

I don't think it would look bad. As long as you do well in the classes (B or A).

mystiqx said:

I just wanted opinions....
Do you think taking some of the pre-reqs during the summer and at a community college would reflect negatively on an applicant? I know it sounds a bit silly but i'm just curious all the same.... looking foward to replys

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I don't think so. I did a few pre-reqs at CC's, and it never really came into question. You do want to make sure that those CC courses transfer over though. If you take a course like Organic Chem at a CC, it may not cover enough material to be transferrable to certain schools, which I know was the case at a few CC's in my area. I'd always double check your community college courses with pharmacy schools you're interested in going to just to make sure there's no problem.

I don't think they will be looked down upon just make sure you get a quality education from the institution you go to. you need a foundation for pharmacy school.

Hi everyone. Just recently, I've been considering the pharmacy route. My question is, does it really matter if you attend a jc for all of your pre-req classes for pharmacy? I know they look more favorably upon students who have attended more prestigous schools, but how detrimental is it to an applicant if he/she decides to go through the jc pathway?

A little background information about myself to better assess the situation: I'm going to double major at UCLA and possibly have a minor. They are all non-science related fields. I plan to take the pharm pre-reqs at a community college because I know UCLA will not approve excess units among other reasons. I may choose to matriculate in certain jc's to obtain a higher gpa. I haven't decided yet because I'm still trying to analyze the tradeoffs involved (namely, better preparation vs. getting into a decent pharmacy school). Any thoughts?

The assistent dean at a pharmacy college told me it's better to take your science courses at a 4 year college. You can take liberal arts type classes such as foreign languages at a community college. Getting in to pharmacy school is competitive, and where you take your courses is going to be considered by the admissions committee. Community colleges have a reputation of being easier.

I have heard that applicants with previous bachelor degrees have a better chance of getting in, so since you will have a bachelors by the time you apply, I don't think that completing pre-reqs at a jc will look bad. Even if you didn't have a bachelors, I still don't think that jc courses would look bad. I think it all depends on the QUALITY of your education, and while a 4-year college *may* or may not have a better quality of courses than a jc, that is irrelevant if the student is not willing to put in their best effort to learn the material. So, as long as you give your best effort to learn the material, that will show in your grades and your application. I have taken courses at both a 4 year college and at a cc, and I can honestly say that I got a better education at the cc b/c the classes were smaller, and the professors actually had time for the students (not like at 4 year colleges where the professors spend more time on their research than with students). What ever you decide, make sure to make time for volunteering and getting experience in the field.

it wouldn't make much difference...I guess

I took both Anat & Phys I & II at a CC. I was a bio major and they were not part of the curriculum at my school. It didn't negatively affect my application.

I actually had a similar decision to make when I first decided to do pharmacy. I'd recommend e-mailing the admissions of the schools you're interested in to see what they say because each school is different. I think I e-mailed about four, and 1 out of the four said it was no difference, while the others said university level was "preferred". So I wonder what "preferred" means....

actually i think it may make a difference at the end. Im assuming that you will be applying as a transfer student to pharmayc schools. As you know, seats are VERY limited and competative. Assuming that you get straight As at jc and someone else applying to the same school also got straight As in all their classes but at a 4 year university, I would imagine they would go with the person who was sucessful at a University level.
You should do what i did. Im just taking all my hardcore science classes at a major university but then all the rest of the minor classes such as micro economics and stats at a jc just to save money.

It's okay to take any classes at Community college as long as you get A & Bs honor roll. I called pharmacy schools to ask them and they said no problem as long as you do well in the class.

Bob_Barker27 said:

it's better to take your science courses at a 4 year college. You can take liberal arts type classes such as foreign languages at a community college. Getting in to pharmacy school is competitive, and where you take your courses is going to be considered by the admissions committee. Community colleges have a reputation of being easier.

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EXACTLY. except for physics b/c physics is a science-wannabe class (according to the UC Pharmacy Schools )

Ocean Breeze said:

Hi everyone. Just recently, I've been considering the pharmacy route. My question is, does it really matter if you attend a jc for all of your pre-req classes for pharmacy? I know they look more favorably upon students who have attended more prestigous schools, but how detrimental is it to an applicant if he/she decides to go through the jc pathway?

A little background information about myself to better assess the situation: I'm going to double major at UCLA and possibly have a minor. They are all non-science related fields. I plan to take the pharm pre-reqs at a community college because I know UCLA will not approve excess units among other reasons. I may choose to matriculate in certain jc's to obtain a higher gpa. I haven't decided yet because I'm still trying to analyze the tradeoffs involved (namely, better preparation vs. getting into a decent pharmacy school). Any thoughts?

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Hi Ocean Breeze, I just posted a reply to someone who had a similar question about taking prereqs at a CC and it can be found here http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2216857#post2216857 --just a suggestion; hope it helps

Ocean Breeze said:

I plan to take the pharm pre-reqs at a community college because I know UCLA will not approve excess units among other reasons.

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--that's kind of irritating...have you tried talking to an advisor at UCLA and telling them WHY you would like to be able to take the prereqs at UCLA? if you REALLY have your heart set on taking them at UCLA b/c you personally feel it will make your app stronger, then i'd march to your advisor's office and be very adamant about being granted the ability to do this (try to work it out--maybe there are "useless" units you have in your history that you can take out, like APs or something). good luck!

endlesslove said:

EXACTLY. except for physics b/c physics is a science-wannabe class (according to the UC Pharmacy Schools )

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Physics is pure science. It's just not biological in nature (for the most part). I also found it to be the most difficult of my prereqs. It doesn't have much application in pharmacy school.

dgroulx said:

It's just not biological in nature (for the most part). It doesn't have much application in pharmacy school.

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i think that's why ucsf and ucsd don't consider it to be science from their point of view. and yes, it is difficult

mystiqx said:

thanks for the input everyone, i appreciate it, and yeah i have no clue why pharm schools want physics, but oh well gotta make them happy right

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I did all my pre-req's at a CC and got in just fine. The major thing is just making sure everything transfers. I would also talk with other students and make sure you take the best/hardest chemistry professors there because you will want a strong background in chemistry.

Thanks for all of the advice everyone!

As for taking pre-reqs at my current college -- due to budget cuts, UC's are getting real anal about extending units. The whole overcrowded environment matched with less funding inhibits a person's desire to take other classes. If I chose to be a science major coming into UCLA, it would not have been a problem, but because I choose something else as a major, I will not be able to take science classes unless I stay there more than 4 years. I can not stay more than 4 years, because after that, my financial aid gets cut off. My question is not about if I should take classes at a jc, but rather, how much will it hurt me in the admissions process.

It should not hurt you, so long as you make your application stand out by the activites that you do outside of school (i.e., volunteering, pharmacy experience, hobbies, etc.). My friends who are in pharmacy school said that the admissions committee likes get a feel for your passions outside of school, they like to see that behind the grades and test scores there is a person. So basically, don't worry about having to take the prereqs at a jc. Take those classes and learn the material well, of course, and really focus on activities that you can do outside of school to make you a more unique candidate when it's time to fill out the application, write the essay, and interview. Besides *maybe* discussing your grades at the interview, you'll probably be asked questions about what you did outside of school in preparation for pharmacy school. If you didn't do anything, then you won't have anything to talk about, and you won't stand out as a candidate. So, as long as you keep your grades up *and* learn the material well, it really doesn't matter where you take your prereqs. Just make sure to incorporate outside activities during your free time; and if you don't have free time, open up some time in your schedule and volunteer somewhere that requires little time. You might consider volunteering with a local hospice, either with seeing patients/families or just helping at the office. This is what I have been doing for almost two years, and sometimes all I do is translate for patients and/or nurses/doctors who don't speak Spanish. This takes very little time, and I can go in on my time, and it's something that I can write about/talk about at my interview and app essay.
Anyway, hope this helps, and good luck!

I think physics reveals a student's ability to solve problems more than biology and chemistry classes that really just require a student to memorize information. That's probably why the pharmacy schools require it, even though knowledge of physics is probably not crucial for success in pharmacy school.

I think anybody that decides to take science courses at community college is taking a huge risk. IF a pharmacy school only takes 100 students, and there are 100 or more students with a high GPA who attended state schools, and you had a high GPA from a community college, you probably will be rejected unless you have stellar PCAT scores and a ton of pharmacy work or volunteer experience. I personally don't think it's fair for pharmacy schools to accept students who take most of their science courses at a community college because it's probable that many of their grades would have been lower at the state school.

endlesslove said:

EXACTLY. except for physics b/c physics is a science-wannabe class (according to the UC Pharmacy Schools )

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But physics is everything...

Bob_Barker27 said:

I personally don't think it's fair for pharmacy schools to accept students who take most of their science courses at a community college because it's probable that many of their grades would have been lower at the state school.

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And I personally don't agree with this statement, nor do I find it to be a fair assumption. For many people, it isn't a matter of difficulty; it's a matter of finance. For others, community colleges are more accessible than universities.

I did all two years of prepharm work at a community college (WVU-Parkersburg). I was one of two people in a class of 80 that got in from a CC.

My PCAT scores were significantly higher than the class average and my GPA was significantly lower than my classmates. So using me as an example, a community college is actually harder. (My Organic Chemistry teacher didn't give anyone an "A", ever. Everyone got either a B, C, D, or F. That class was so difficult, it rivals some of the pharmacology courses I'm taking today.) The only difference in the two is that I only paid about $700 in total for those two years where everyone else probably paid about $25,000 for those two years. Also, my science classes had 10-15 people in them where at the 'superior' state schools, they are stuck in a room with 300+ people per class.

FutureRxGal said:

And I personally don't agree with this statement, nor do I find it to be a fair assumption. For many people, it isn't a matter of difficulty; it's a matter of finance. For others, community colleges are more accessible than universities.

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It is as fair assumption, but it doesn't really matter what I think, it matters what the admissions committee thinks. There are a ton of need based scholarships and you can take loans out as well, so I think the finanicial excuse doesn't work. My dad managed a pizza hut when he was in college to pay for his tuition. As far as I know, pharmacy schools don't have tuitions as cheap as community colleges do, so how will these students afford pharmacy college if lack of finances is their excuse for not taking pre-pharmacy courses at a 4 year college?

Bob_Barker27 said:

It is as fair assumption, but it doesn't really matter what I think, it matters what the admissions committee thinks. There are a ton of need based scholarships and you can take loans out as well, so I think the finanicial excuse doesn't work. My dad managed a pizza hut when he was in college to pay for his tuition. As far as I know, pharmacy schools don't have tuitions as cheap as community colleges do, so how will these students afford pharmacy college if lack of finances is their excuse for not taking pre-pharmacy courses at a 4 year college?

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It's not just about lacking finances but making wise decisions in spending, which takes a lifetime of learning and some people never learn it. I work full-time, but I also have rent, a car note, insurance, gas, food, cats, utilities, and credit cards that I've needed to get by this far in order to survive. I don't live at home with mom and dad; I'm 26 and live in another state. It was a better decision and easier for me to complete most of my prerequisites at a community college that is close to my work and home. The university that I attend part-time now is an hour away. So, maybe you can see where I'm coming from with that. Any extra money I have now is going towards paying off current loans (car and credit cards) so that I don't have those expenses (or less of them) in pharmacy school. And because I work (a necessity, not a choice), I don't qualify for grants or need-based anything.

As to how I'll afford pharmacy school, loans of course. I'm not oblivious to the fact that I can't work like I do and succeed in pharmacy school. I'll work during breaks, and maybe 10 or so hours per week if it is feasible.

The fact of the matters is everyone's situation is different. We all do what we do to get by, and there is no wrong or right way. In the end, we'll all be in the same place.

FutureRxGal said:

It's not just about lacking finances but making wise decisions in spending, which takes a lifetime of learning and some people never learn it. I work full-time, but I also have rent, a car note, insurance, gas, food, cats, utilities, and credit cards that I've needed to get by this far in order to survive. I don't live at home with mom and dad; I'm 26 and live in another state. It was a better decision and easier for me to complete most of my prerequisites at a community college that is close to my work and home. The university that I attend part-time now is an hour away. So, maybe you can see where I'm coming from with that. Any extra money I have now is going towards paying off current loans (car and credit cards) so that I don't have those expenses (or less of them) in pharmacy school. And because I work (a necessity, not a choice), I don't qualify for grants or need-based anything.

As to how I'll afford pharmacy school, loans of course. I'm not oblivious to the fact that I can't work like I do and succeed in pharmacy school. I'll work during breaks, and maybe 10 or so hours per week if it is feasible.

The fact of the matters is everyone's situation is different. We all do what we do to get by, and there is no wrong or right way. In the end, we'll all be in the same place.

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I'm 27, and I paid with my own money to take pre-pharmacy courses at a 4 year state college. I did take a Spanish class at a community college. The pharmacy schools I have contacted told me they prefer for students to take their science courses at a 4 year school, but they were fine with students taking liberal arts classes at a community college. I think it's taking a huge risk to hope a pharmacy school feels sorry for you because of your particular situation. I just don't think it's a level playing field if some applicants are taking less challenging science courses at a community colleges.

Bob_Barker27 said:

I think it's taking a huge risk to hope a pharmacy school feels sorry for you because of your particular situation.

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I hope you aren't directing that at me. Without risking a false assumption, I'll hope that you are just making a generalization.

Bob_Barker27 said:

I just don't think it's a level playing field if some applicants are taking less challenging science courses at a community colleges.

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Again, I don't think this is a fair assumption. I've taken classes at university that were more difficult than community college classes, AND vice versa. I once had an awesome science professor who really made students sweat tears and blood to earn their As or Bs, but just didn't want to deal with the politics that can be present at larger universities.

I think we should just acknowledge each other's positions on this issue and agree to disagree.

FutureRxGal said:

I hope you aren't directing that at me. Without risking a false assumption, I'll hope that you are just making a generalization.



Again, I don't think this is a fair assumption. I've taken classes at university that were more difficult than community college classes, AND vice versa. I once had an awesome science professor who really made students sweat tears and blood to earn their As or Bs, but just didn't want to deal with the politics that can be present at larger universities.

I think we should just acknowledge each other's positions on this issue and agree to disagree.

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Several pharmacy schools have told me they prefer that students take science classes at a 4 year school. There has to be a reason for this. The academic ability of most students at a community college tends to be much lower than a typical student at a 4 year school, so it is logical to assume that courses at a community college are somewhat less challenging. If the pharmacy school that a student is applying to doesn't care where the student takes his courses, then by all means, take the courses at a community college. I'm trying to offer advice to students who are trying to get in to pharmacy college based on the advice pharmacy schools have given me. Admissions to pharmacy school is competitive, and an applicant should do everything possible to avoid anything that might cast doubt on his or her academic abilility as compared to other applicants.

Bob_Barker27 said:

Admissions to pharmacy school is competitive, and an applicant should do everything possible to avoid anything that might cast doubt on his or her academic abilility as compared to other applicants.

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This is where the PCAT comes to play. Your scores will reflect whether you learned the material or not, regardless of where you completed your courses. Every applicant should make their applications stand out by their extracurricular activities and experiences in the field.

I attend UCLA with a degree in chemical engineering and the classes there are much harder because of the competition and the material. CC is much easier no doubt, but i have yet to take an anatomy and physiology class here. I can't afford to leave for full-time because I have bills to pay. And i don't want to go back to UCLA just to take two classes, although what Bob says makes sense.

Which pharmacy school rep told you that? Very curious.

Gizmo said:

This is where the PCAT comes to play. Your scores will reflect whether you learned the material or not, regardless of where you completed your courses. Every applicant should make their applications stand out by their extracurricular activities and experiences in the field.

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One of the three schools I applied at doesn't require the PCAT. This school claims the PCAT isn't nearly a good of an indicator of who does well in pharmacy school as GPA is. They said that a lot of students with very low GPAs did better on the PCAT than students with very high GPAs.

I'm going to say that it depends on who is incharge of accepting you. i was told by a professor a couple of years ago that if two applicants were basically equal, even with a slightly lower GPA from a university the university attendent would be preferred by this person. they felt like students who went to universities whined less and adjusted better to the course load...

it depends on the person.

blueclassring said:

I attend UCLA with a degree in chemical engineering and the classes there are much harder because of the competition and the material. CC is much easier no doubt, but i have yet to take an anatomy and physiology class here. I can't afford to leave for full-time because I have bills to pay. And i don't want to go back to UCLA just to take two classes, although what Bob says makes sense.

Which pharmacy school rep told you that? Very curious.

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The assistent dean at the University of South Carolina told me to take my science courses at a 4 year school. I was also told the same thing on the phone by admissions secretaries at the Medical University of South Carolina and Campbell University. I think you will be okay if you just take 1 or two science classes at a community college. The University of South Carolina doesn't require the PCAT, so they require a higher GPA than most other schools (the average GPA of accepted students is close to a 3.7). As a result, I think where you take your courses is more in question as opposed to colleges that require the PCAT. The best thing to do is to ask the pharmacy colleges that you are going to apply to if will hurt your chances of getting in if you take courses at CC.

Just to clear up some confusion, taking sciences at 4 year schools will always work to a student's advantage. That however doesn't mean that a student with CC credits in science will not be looked at. For example, at one school I am very familiar with, they look at what school you went to. If they have an application from UCLA vs Joe Blow CC with similar GPA's, they will look at the both of them. This is where a students intangibles will come into play. (Which is why it is important to have experience or get involved in some sort of way) The UCLA GPA will of course be weighed a little higher. Now, if they got an application from dinky 4 year university vs CC, they will be held in an even light. So, to answer the OP's question, it's okay to take classes at a CC. Just keep your grades up! Good luck!

I don't think it does matter. . I think you don't have to worry about it. IN my opinions, It's better to take Biology, Microbiology, Physisiology and Anatoly at your unversity because they'll prepare you for PCAT. You can take Chemistry at Community college. Most of the proffesors doesn't teach Chemistry well at my unversity. I recommend you to take Chemistry and Physics at community college.
My brother took all of his classes at Community College. His GPA was 3.3 and his PCAT was 80%. He got in Temple. This is his 2nd year

I took all my science prereqs at 3 CCs in 2 different states but already had a bachelors and masters in business. No problem getting in.

eslboy2005 said:

My brother took all of his classes at Community College. His GPA was 3.3 and his PCAT was 80%. He got in Temple. This is his 2nd year

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Man, I wish I had applied to Temple.

Bob_Barker27 said:

The pharmacy schools I have contacted told me they prefer for students to take their science courses at a 4 year school, but they were fine with students taking liberal arts classes at a community college. I think it's taking a huge risk to hope a pharmacy school feels sorry for you because of your particular situation. I just don't think it's a level playing field if some applicants are taking less challenging science courses at a community colleges.

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AMEN. definitely not a level playing field. thankfully, the CA pharm schools (and hopefully more and more schools in the rest of the country) will see that a 4.0 really doesn't mean much at a CC (unless extenuating circumstances are explained in the app that leaves them with absolutely no choice but to take them at CC. and i agree with you that finance is should be NO excuse at all b/c there's always loans and stuff --the only financial exception i can think of is perhaps the applicant has to work 3-4 jobs to also help pay bills his parents can't pay, maybe due to a disability, in addition to going to school. and i also agree with you that if finance shouldn't be an excuse b/c if you can't pay for undergrad, how do you expect to pay for the costly 4 yrs of pharm school?) Beyond CCs (sorry, I don't mean to pick on them), some pharm schools (like the ones in CA) also compare GPAs from diff universities. Obviously a 4.0 from CalTech and Berkeley weighs more than a 4.0 from UC Riverside. My only concern is whether or not they take into consideration the GPA inflation at some of the private universities like StanfUrd (supposedly, they can drop classes AFTER the semester is over)--wouldn't we all like to get rid of that B in one of our science prereqs? Hmm...

Gizmo said:

This is where the PCAT comes to play.

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but just remember: doesnt work for students applying to CA pharm schools or any other pharm school in the nation that doesn't requrie PCATs 'cuz it's not even that they don't require it; they don't even want to look at it. seems like most ppl in this forum are applying to CA.

I think anybody that decides to take science courses at community college is taking a huge risk. IF a pharmacy school only takes 100 students, and there are 100 or more students with a high GPA who attended state schools, and you had a high GPA from a community college, you probably will be rejected unless you have stellar PCAT scores and a ton of pharmacy work or volunteer experience. I personally don't think it's fair for pharmacy schools to accept students who take most of their science courses at a community college because it's probable that many of their grades would have been lower at the state school.[/QUOTE]

I had no problem getting in to U of MD with the majority of my prereques at CC, and I was accepted in Oct.
(Mind you, I did have a pretty good pcat score and a good gpa)

This thread is becoming very elitist rather quickly

If you have a degree from a 4 year university and take your prereques at a jc, you are showing the admition committee that you can handle the pressures of a university already. You need to have a good gpa/pcat to get in the door for an interview, but it does come down to more than numbers. Many people with degrees who go back to pharmacy (or other healthcare professions) choose to go that route. I don't have a 4 year degree, but I have attended 3 universities and 2 CC's because of moving around with the military and there were honestly NO questions about my gpa or pcat (or college history).

Caverject said:

This thread is becoming very elitist rather quickly

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did you expect anything less??

i mean i fully expect this thread to become just as horrible and demeaning as allo vs. pharm

I know this is probably a stupid question but can we just merge the two threads on CC V 4 year...

they seem to be on the same topic

Caverject said:

This thread is becoming very elitist rather quickly

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You guys are cry babies if you think this is a heated conversation. I think some of the students who took their courses at a community college are taking it too personally when I and others say the courses at CC are easier.

bbmuffin said:

I know this is probably a stupid question but can we just merge the two threads on CC V 4 year...

they seem to be on the same topic

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This was seconded. Merging commencing...

Bob_Barker27 said:

You guys are cry babies if you think this is a heated conversation. I think some of the students who took their courses at a community college are taking it too personally when I and others say the courses at CC are easier.

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I actually don't recall anyone saying it was heated....

i believe the word used was "elitest"

and boy... by the looks of your post it just kinda kills your credibility....

name calling?
lol