how much debt will you accrue after your dental education?

About $250,000.

With Mr. Stafford paying for my Porsche lease, penthouse, and nightly strip club habit...$300,000. No, I'm kidding. I'll be down $120,000.

130k

$170-180K. If I do a residency then add another $ 40 unless I can moonlight enough to avoid the extra loans.

300k for education
600k for mortgage
_________________
900k total.

~100k

200k

Right around $100K.

200k.

I'm taking as much cheap loan money as Uncle Sam is willing to give me, probably right around $200k.

Consider the Army HPSP. Graduate without debt. More importantly, serve your country and get a kick ass job as an Army Cpt. doing EVERYTHING. you'll get out so far ahead financially and clincically that you'll look back on it as one of the best decisions you've made. Of course you'll have to deal with Army BS and you will not control every aspect of your life. In fact where you live and what you do will be chosen for you. And of course you can get shot. Good luck.

300K, it ain't cheap to live here in So. Cal.

4 years of undergrad at my state school $20k.

4 years of dental school at a private school $240k.

Lifetime of loans to repay...........Priceless

Rube said:

Consider the Army HPSP. Graduate without debt. More importantly, serve your country and get a kick ass job as an Army Cpt. doing EVERYTHING. you'll get out so far ahead financially

Click to expand...

Not true at all. The HPSP grad will be locked into a payscale that their peers in the private sector will easily surpass in a year or two. Many of their peers will begin as associates making 30k more than the HPSP grad, and that's just the first year out.

Doing the HPSP for financial reasons is not a reason to do it, and those who do so will not be pleased with their experiences.

Omahahahaha said:

Lifetime of loans to repay...........Priceless

Click to expand...

Locking in those loans at a low-interest rate and taking a lifetime to repay them..... a very smart move.

~150-160k

Mine is zero. Well that is contingent on if this scratch off I have in my hand is a winner

Dental08?09 said:

Mine is zero. Well that is contingent on if this scratch off I have in my hand is a winner

Click to expand...

hah

Rube said:

Consider the Army HPSP. Graduate without debt. More importantly, serve your country and get a kick ass job as an Army Cpt. doing EVERYTHING. you'll get out so far ahead financially and clincically that you'll look back on it as one of the best decisions you've made. Of course you'll have to deal with Army BS and you will not control every aspect of your life. In fact where you live and what you do will be chosen for you. And of course you can get shot. Good luck.

Click to expand...

I'm proud to be wearing America's uniform in the National Guard. There can be a lot of compelling rewards for spending some time in the armed forces, but getting ahead financially is *NOT*, never has been, and never will be, one of them.

An update on my loans. I have reduced them $10, thanks to my winnings. I now owe $95,764. When all said and done around $200k

0 for me.

My father is a doctor and has already put the money in my account for me to manage.

I am lucky, but I worked hard for it by earning 2 degrees in 3 years and having a 3.89.

I honestly wouldnt think it would be bad to owe $200k though.

You will all make very decent money after school and possibly pay it back within 3-5 years depending on your lifestyle.

I on the other hand wont have any debt but will work in a rural area so I probably wont make near as much money.

Rezdawg said:

200k.

Click to expand...

with 100k of family contribution right?

150K for me

Assuming I sell my place for market value when I graduate in 2 years, I will roughly come out with 0-40K debt. The condo nextdoor just went for 119K more than I paid for mine.

It would be around 170-180K without the real estate profit.

I thought 40G for a year was a lot.

ItsGavinC said:

Not true at all. The HPSP grad will be locked into a payscale that their peers in the private sector will easily surpass in a year or two. Many of their peers will begin as associates making 30k more than the HPSP grad, and that's just the first year out.

Doing the HPSP for financial reasons is not a reason to do it, and those who do so will not be pleased with their experiences.

Click to expand...

Army Cpts make approx 53 with perks and then get a housing allowance on top of that. So basically you make 55 and don't pay rent even if you're married with a family. You get healthcare paid for, you get fitness centers, you get the PX and 30 days of vacation a year. You have no debt upon graduation and you get smallish raises going forward.

Contrast that with 160-220k in debt depending on if you went to a state school. Then you make 70+ first year, then 85 second year, then 95 3rd yr then 105 4th year. (this is assuming you get bonuses and don't buy a practice in 4 years.) All in all, you'll make 115 more than an Army Cpt in 4 yrs time. However, you've got avg debt of 180. To pay down. The Army Cpt has no debt. Nothing to pay down and so to pay off 180, you need to gross 250 at least, Try saving 250 in any major metropolitan or rural area in the country. Starting to see it now... There is NO WAY it is not a good financial deal.

So an army cpt has done an likely done an AGD in the Army, done hundreds of extractions and leaves the Army after 4 years. He'll be likely ready to buy a practice just like you might be. Th only thing is he can afford to borrow it and get going.

As I said, there are some drawbacks which I mentioned in my previous post, but financially and clinically, it is an experience which cannot be beat.

70k first year...

The pay must be horrible back in Maryland...

meanwhile elsewhere...My brother in law made 150k his first year out as an associate, the dentist I worked for as an assistant cleared about 200k his first year when he bought a new practice.

Your numbers are way off from what I have seen. If you want to serve your country...go military. If you don't want to put up with the "military BS" then there are other options by which HPSP "CAN be BEAT"

I have great respect for those who want to go through the military, but as others have said...finances should not be the impetus.

Rube - are you really a recruiter and not a dental student?

kato999 said:

Assuming I sell my place for market value when I graduate in 2 years, I will roughly come out with 0-40K debt. The condo nextdoor just went for 119K more than I paid for mine.

It would be around 170-180K without the real estate profit.

Click to expand...

But there is a big kicker you are forgeting about your real estate profit. If you sell your primary home and use the money for anything else but buying a new home you pay capital gains. I think capital gains is 18% right now, but its going down. Then you have yearly taxes you pay on your home that you will never get back and another big expense you will never get back is the interest you pay on your home. Oh, one last expense is the realtor fees and closing fees you have paid on the front and back end. So lets assume you paid $120k no downpayment and an interest rate of 5.5%. and you sell for $280k when you graduate.

Interest Expense: $26k
Capital gains: $29k
Taxes over 4 years: $8k (assuming 2k a year for 4 years)
Closing Cost: $4k
Realtor Fee and others at sale: $20k (usually 7% of sale price)

Total expense: $87k
Your Gain from sale: $160k

Total profit after sale: $73k

Not sure you can pay for your tution with the left over cash but it will take out a good chunk. You are fortunate you are in a fast moving market. On avg though the real estate market only returns 2% above inflation. One day your market will return to that, but I do not for see it doing that for 3-4 years.

How do I know this, I'm a licensed realtor.

Ok, as you can see I'm bored but I hope you found it a good read

Dental08?09 said:

But there is a big kicker you are forgeting about your real estate profit. If you sell your primary home and use the money for anything else but buying a new home you pay capital gains. I think capital gains is 18% right now, but its going down. Then you have yearly taxes you pay on your home that you will never get back and another big expense you will never get back is the interest you pay on your home. Oh, one last expense is the realtor fees and closing fees you have paid on the front and back end. So lets assume you paid $120k no downpayment and an interest rate of 5.5%. and you sell for $280k when you graduate.

Interest Expense: $26k
Capital gains: $29k
Taxes over 4 years: $8k (assuming 2k a year for 4 years)
Closing Cost: $4k
Realtor Fee and others at sale: $20k (usually 7% of sale price)

Total expense: $87k
Your Gain from sale: $160k

Total profit after sale: $73k

Not sure you can pay for your tution with the left over cash but it will take out a good chunk. You are fortunate you are in a fast moving market. On avg though the real estate market only returns 2% above inflation. One day your market will return to that, but I do not for see it doing that for 3-4 years.

How do I know this, I'm a licensed realtor.

Ok, as you can see I'm bored but I hope you found it a good read

Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. Right now though I am still claiming residence in Minnesota and the property is owned by a company my father and I made up. We did this to avoid the tax, but I am not an accountant nor a realtor so you probably know how this works better than I.

Also since I locked in my interest rate for the the first two years at 2.5% I wouldn't pay all my loans off, but would use the money in the sale for either a new residence or some other investment that would earn better than the interest rate I am paying. It would be silly to pay off a 80K loan with 2.5 interest when you could invest that 80K and get a return of at a minumum 5-10%.

I was just illustrating that I would be close to debt free as far as value, not my actual plans to immediately pay off all my student loans.

Most likely I will not use a realtor when I sell, in the southeast burbs of Phoenix, the housing market is a feeding frenzy. I think 200 people a day are moving into our suburb alone. I don't expect the housing market trend to continue nationally but in the Southwest I agree with you that it will stay strong for the next few years.

Sorry to totally highjack this thread. I just thought it is nice to illustrate that just because I go to a private school doesn't mean I have to have a ton of debt.

About 85K

ElDienteLoco said:

70k first year...

The pay must be horrible back in Maryland...

meanwhile elsewhere...My brother in law made 150k his first year out as an associate, the dentist I worked for as an assistant cleared about 200k his first year when he bought a new practice.

Your numbers are way off from what I have seen. If you want to serve your country...go military. If you don't want to put up with the "military BS" then there are other options by which HPSP "CAN be BEAT"

I have great respect for those who want to go through the military, but as others have said...finances should not be the impetus.

Rube - are you really a recruiter and not a dental student?

Click to expand...

I am not a recruiter.

I know there are all kinds of first year salaries, some low, some high like your brother in law. I would say 150 is very high for a first year dentist. Not unheard of just very high.

I also took a low number for the debt. Some have 250 in debt. How much do you have to pull in after taxes to cover 250 in debt... I will just let the numbers speak for themselves using your numbers.

250 debt
150 x 4= 600 gross earnings.
400 after taxes.
Congrats you probably are one of the lucky ones who are doing very well right out of the gate.

However you'll need 70 to live on for 4 years. so figure you live on 280 for 4 years.

You pay 120 of your 250 off and you have 130 left in debt. That's pretty amazing after 4 years and you are living well on 6k per month, better than an army dentist.

Still you have 130 in debt. Army dentist zero.

was that fair? I used your numbers, high debt numbers but also your high earnings numbers...

Anyway, I think the numbers speak for themselves and I'll rest my case. Nevertheless, I think there are many great dentists who will not go the way of the military and that is just as good. I am not suggesting the military is the only way to go. A person should consider all the pros and cons before deciding.

kato999 said:

Thanks for the advice. Right now though I am still claiming residence in Minnesota and the property is owned by a company my father and I made up. We did this to avoid the tax, but I am not an accountant nor a realtor so you probably know how this works better than I.

Also since I locked in my interest rate for the the first two years at 2.5% I wouldn't pay all my loans off, but would use the money in the sale for either a new residence or some other investment that would earn better than the interest rate I am paying. It would be silly to pay off a 80K loan with 2.5 interest when you could invest that 80K and get a return of at a minumum 5-10%.

I was just illustrating that I would be close to debt free as far as value, not my actual plans to immediately pay off all my student loans.

Most likely I will not use a realtor when I sell, in the southeast burbs of Phoenix, the housing market is a feeding frenzy. I think 200 people a day are moving into our suburb alone. I don't expect the housing market trend to continue nationally but in the Southwest I agree with you that it will stay strong for the next few years.

Sorry to totally highjack this thread. I just thought it is nice to illustrate that just because I go to a private school doesn't mean I have to have a ton of debt.

Click to expand...

Very few people have the opportunity you have just described me. This secnario is the reason why the housing market is going nutts...many people are finding killer financing deals in fast population growth markets.

As for the corp. Smart move! Not only do you get tax perks but also the protection of a corp. If someone gets hurt on the property, they sue the corp and not you, therefore all of your personal assets are protected.

There are many many benefits to the corp and I could write a book on it. I'm sure your dad is a wise man for even doing it so I'm sure he knows as much as I do or even more.

Best of luck to you!

Rube said:

I am not a recruiter.

I know there are all kinds of first year salaries, some low, some high like your brother in law. I would say 150 is very high for a first year dentist. Not unheard of just very high.

I also took a low number for the debt. Some have 250 in debt. How much do you have to pull in after taxes to cover 250 in debt... I will just let the numbers speak for themselves using your numbers.

250 debt
150 x 4= 600 gross earnings.
400 after taxes.
Congrats you probably are one of the lucky ones who are doing very well right out of the gate.

However you'll need 70 to live on for 4 years. so figure you live on 280 for 4 years.

You pay 120 of your 250 off and you have 130 left in debt. That's pretty amazing after 4 years and you are living well on 6k per month, better than an army dentist.

Still you have 130 in debt. Army dentist zero.

was that fair? I used your numbers, high debt numbers but also your high earnings numbers...

Anyway, I think the numbers speak for themselves and I'll rest my case. Nevertheless, I think there are many great dentists who will not go the way of the military and that is just as good. I am not suggesting the military is the only way to go. A person should consider all the pros and cons before deciding.

Click to expand...

The numbers do look good with the HPSP, however, there are many details that you have failed to mention. First, after the four years of service have been put in, you must remain in the IRR (Individual Ready Reserves) for an additional four years in which you may be called to service at any time for any duration.

Most importantly is the STOP LOSS that is in effect. This means that after your four years of service, if the military decides that they still want you to stay in active service, YOU WILL, regardless of what your contract says. Even if after the four years of active duty are up and you get called to duty while in the reserves for four years, they can still keep you as long as they like in active duty (even after eight years of service, four of which that were supposed to be IRR).

Additionally, if you have a spouse in the military and you get orders overseas, your spouse cannot go with you unless the duration of your orders is longer than 16 months.

openwidepls said:

The numbers do look good with the HPSP, however, there are many details that you have failed to mention. First, after the four years of service have been put in, you must remain in the IRR (Individual Ready Reserves) for an additional four years in which you may be called to service at any time for any duration.

Most importantly is the STOP LOSS that is in effect. This means that after your four years of service, if the military decides that they still want you to stay in active service, YOU WILL, regardless of what your contract says. Even if after the four years of active duty are up and you get called to duty while in the reserves for four years, they can still keep you as long as they like in active duty (even after eight years of service, four of which that were supposed to be IRR).

Additionally, if you have a spouse in the military and you get orders overseas, your spouse cannot go with you unless the duration of your orders is longer than 16 months.

Click to expand...

Yes. All great points!

Now so far, I've not heard of any dentists being stop lossed or pulled back through IRR but yes, you'd have to lets say leave your practice and go be an army dentist for 6 more months or a year if you got called up. That would stink, but you could hire someone to take over for you. Your patients would definitely understand. Still I wouldn't want that.

Rube said:

Yes. All great points!

Now so far, I've not heard of any dentists being stop lossed or pulled back through IRR but yes, you'd have to lets say leave your practice and go be an army dentist for 6 more months or a year if you got called up. That would stink, but you could hire someone to take over for you. Your patients would definitely understand. Still I wouldn't want that.

Click to expand...

And as for additional great reasons for doing the HPSP, some perks you have left out are use of the commissary (extremely cheap groceries, all name brand of course) and base exchange (also name brand items for very cheap...I think that its all subsidized so the price is very low). Were talking about close to 50 percent less than off-base stores like Fry's and both the commissary and exchange have No Sales Tax.

Also, the ability to hop on a flight to virtually anywhere for next to nothing (these used to be called mac flights but I think the name has changed). The use of the Hale Koa hotel in Waikiki, Oahu, Hawaii (VERY nice resort on the beach for militatry personnel ONLY) for almost nothing, I think around 120 bucks a night for a suite year round.

The vacation time that isn't used is carried over to the next year for a maximum of 60 days off.

Essentially a 70K salary in the military is more like a 90K salary as a civilian because of the substantially low cost of living.

openwidepls said:

Also, the ability to hop on a flight to virtually anywhere for next to nothing (these used to be called mac flights but I think the name has changed).

Click to expand...

Space Available Travel

openwidepls said:

And as for additional great reasons for doing the HPSP, some perks you have left out are use of the commissary (extremely cheap groceries, all name brand of course) and base exchange (also name brand items for very cheap...I think that its all subsidized so the price is very low). Were talking about close to 50 percent less than off-base stores like Fry's and both the commissary and exchange have No Sales Tax.

Also, the ability to hop on a flight to virtually anywhere for next to nothing (these used to be called mac flights but I think the name has changed). The use of the Hale Koa hotel in Waikiki, Oahu, Hawaii (VERY nice resort on the beach for militatry personnel ONLY) for almost nothing, I think around 120 bucks a night for a suite year round.

The vacation time that isn't used is carried over to the next year for a maximum of 60 days off.

Essentially a 70K salary in the military is more like a 90K salary as a civilian because of the substantially low cost of living.

Click to expand...

50% is stretching the truth a little. That may be the case for selected products, but my local commissary *itself* advertises a little under 30% typical savings.

Yes, that's a lot of money to save over time, but exaggeration doesn't do any good.

aphistis said:

50% is stretching the truth a little. That may be the case for selected products, but my local commissary *itself* advertises a little under 30% typical savings.

Yes, that's a lot of money to save over time, but exaggeration doesn't do any good.

Click to expand...

Why'd you have to go and ruin everybody's fun for?!

Just got my financial aid summary for second year.
Tuition, fees, living budget: $60,500.00. That doesn't include living expenses for next summer either. This is up from $52,000.00 from last year. So it looks like I'll be at about $240,000 after 4 years. Scary.

I'm over 400k
150 for dental school, 100 for wife's master's degree( she's a full time mom now so it's my debt to repay), 70 for house, 45 for truck, 30 for the fifth wheel and ASDA master card at 25k.

But there is good news other than me switching to GEICO, the interest is DEDUCTABLE! It may seem like a lot of money now, but i plan on practicing for 25+ years at an average of 250k a year, this is a lifetime earning of over 6 million in today's money. 400k is nothing compared to the return when i think that I could still be in the NAVY making 30-40K a year doing more work than in dental school stuck on a ship in the gulf like most of my buddies.

kato999 said:

Assuming I sell my place for market value when I graduate in 2 years, I will roughly come out with 0-40K debt. The condo nextdoor just went for 119K more than I paid for mine.

It would be around 170-180K without the real estate profit.

Click to expand...

I would think twice about selling a hard asset like real estate to pay for school debt that can be financed at a low rate and paid off over many years. You could use that money to work for you in better ways. Could you rent the condo and make enough to pay off the school note? Just a suggestion since there is no debt as wonderful as low interest debt!

JMJRDH1 said:

I would think twice about selling a hard asset like real estate to pay for school debt that can be financed at a low rate and paid off over many years. You could use that money to work for you in better ways. Could you rent the condo and make enough to pay off the school note? Just a suggestion since there is no debt as wonderful as low interest debt!

Click to expand...

If I sell, it wouldn't go towards student loans (see later post), but you're absolutely correct, renting is a solid option. I just was illustrating my net worth wouldn't be negative after graduation.

That is one advantage of being the first graduating class in a school. As for the disadvantages...

I AM SARA said:

0 for me.

My father is a doctor and has already put the money in my account for me to manage.

I am lucky, but I worked hard for it by earning 2 degrees in 3 years and having a 3.89.

Click to expand...

Cosmotology and a CNA don't count.

tx oms said:

Cosmotology and a CNA don't count.

Click to expand...

Aaaaaaaaaaa hahahahahhahahaha! Oh god that's funny! Ah, ah ah ok I'm done....no wait.....aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa hahahahhahahahahahaha!!!

tx oms said:

Cosmotology and a CNA don't count.

Click to expand...

really?

try biochem and physics then sucker.

I am going to live like a queen at dental school with all the money I got.

Also, last week I got a new ford explorer.

Thanks for putting my acct on hold gavin!!!!!!!

kerrydds06 said:

I'm over 400k
150 for dental school, 100 for wife's master's degree( she's a full time mom now so it's my debt to repay), 70 for house, 45 for truck, 30 for the fifth wheel and ASDA master card at 25k.

But there is good news other than me switching to GEICO, the interest is DEDUCTABLE! It may seem like a lot of money now, but i plan on practicing for 25+ years at an average of 250k a year, this is a lifetime earning of over 6 million in today's money. 400k is nothing compared to the return when i think that I could still be in the NAVY making 30-40K a year doing more work than in dental school stuck on a ship in the gulf like most of my buddies.

Click to expand...

Dang, I sometimes lay awake at night worrying about the $85,000 in school debt I will have when I get out. And
I refuse to drive a car that I can't pay cash for. Guess we're on opposite sides of the debt tolerance spectrum. I can't imagine having a half million dollar debt at graduation. Throw in a medium size practice and you'll be in the red for a MILLION DOLLARS!!! How do you sleep at night?

BTW, how do you figure $250K average? Are you going to specialize?

12YearOldKid said:

Dang, I sometimes lay awake at night worrying about the $85,000 in school debt I will have when I get out. And
I refuse to drive a car that I can't pay cash for. Guess we're on opposite sides of the debt tolerance spectrum. I can't imagine having a half million dollar debt at graduation. Throw in a medium size practice and you'll be in the red for a MILLION DOLLARS!!! How do you sleep at night?

BTW, how do you figure $250K average? Are you going to specialize?

Click to expand...

wow she was a waste of $$$.

what kind of graduate degree costs $100k?

Tell her to take the kids off her tit and get to work.