Paper Folding

absolutely not allowed to.

Smileisland said:

absolutely not allowed to.

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I wasnt allowed to.

you weren't supposed to be able to do it. that'd be cheating.

Warning don't do it!

thats cheating dude.

HOTTY said:

The ADA doesn't allow you to use anything as a measuring device on the PAT. I know of many people who held pencils, fingernails and tracings up to the screen during various parts of the PAT. This is flat out cheating. Perceptual ability is all about the mind, if you measure or trace or put your hand to the screen at all you are cheating.

I feel strongly about this beacuse there are many at my school who used measuring devices during their test and did better than I. They are cheaters and I reported everyone of them to the ADA and they are reviewing the video from the center about each test.

Warning don't do it!

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it is cheating i totally agree, but i DONT agree with being a tattle tale... kind of childish.......

You will be happy when you get in because these five guys with over 25 on the PAT don't get in anywhere and leave a spot for you.

I had to do the right thing once I knew about it. I don't even think twice about it. I am ready for any criticism. They know that I did it, and they feel bad for cheating.

stosh said:

it is cheating i totally agree, but i DONT agree with being a tattle tale... kind of childish.......

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I too have to agree with this statement. IMO, tattling reeks of desperation. Do you mind if I ask what your stats are HOTTY???

HOTTY said:

You will be happy when you get in because these five guys with over 25 on the PAT don't get in anywhere and leave a spot for you.

I had to do the right thing once I knew about it. I don't even think twice about it. I am ready for any criticism. They know that I did it, and they feel bad for cheating.

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It was your decision... I don't agree with it, but hey you can do what you want... your the one who has to live with it not me... I personally wouldn't have done it... cheaters always end up getting caught...and yes it does open some spots for others... i personally didn't need their spot, but im sure there are hundreds of others on the site who are happy to have those spots open... good luck to you and quest of dentistry...

lifeisgood said:

I too have to agree with this statement. IMO, tattling reeks of desperation. Do you mind if I ask what your stats are HOTTY???

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20+ in all areas

Guys like I said, I don't care about your opinions on what I did. As a leader, I did what I needed to do. I am comfortable with it, and that is all that matters.

HOTTY said:

The ADA doesn't allow you to use anything as a measuring device on the PAT. I know of many people who held pencils, fingernails and tracings up to the screen during various parts of the PAT. This is flat out cheating. Perceptual ability is all about the mind, if you measure or trace or put your hand to the screen at all you are cheating.

I feel strongly about this beacuse there are many at my school who used measuring devices during their test and did better than I. They are cheaters and I reported everyone of them to the ADA and they are reviewing the video from the center about each test.

Warning don't do it!

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Wow...really?!?!? I didn't know using your hands would count as cheating...btw, I don't agree with rattling them out like that (unless they're your mortal enemies or somethin')...Maybe they're just frustrated during the test and instinctively resorted to their hands??? And what "leader" are you talking about?

Thats pretty lame hottie. Prometric testing centers administer 3000 plus different exams. Most of the "security" probably don't know any of the rules since they don't go through anything with you other than fingerprints. Those people may not have known that you couldn't put your finger on the screen. I doubt it will have any effect on their app anyways, but good try.

Oh and ya, telling on people for using fingers really makes you a leader...

I didn't know that wasn't allowed either. Glad I didn't do anything. How did you know that was cheating?

At least some schools do care about PAT, because all the schools I have spoken with have brought up my PAT score.

HOTTY said:

20+ in all areas

Guys like I said, I don't care about your opinions on what I did. As a leader, I did what I needed to do. I am comfortable with it, and that is all that matters.

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I dont know about the rest of you, but i felt that the angle ranking questions were so close that even if you had a protractor it wouldn't have helped. It's the only section that having a "messureing device" would have really helped. As far as folding paper, i bet it would take so much time to make sure you were folding correctly that you would run out of time. I think they still would've scored pretty high regardeless. just my two cents.

vandy_yankee said:

Hate to burst your bubble, but schools really don't care too much about the PAT score (as long as you're above the minimal requirement). It's the AA they look at.

Did they know beforehand that it isn't allowed and yet still did it? That would make a difference--if it was pure ignorance, I would've cut them slack and not have blown the whistle. If they knew ahead that it was considered cheating, yet still did it and then was stupid enough to brag about it, then it's free game.

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I agree with you about knowing before hand if touching the screen was or was not cheating. Most people wouldn't even think about it. By the way, very disturbing picture you have chosen, Yankee.

jorUW said:

I dont know about the rest of you, but i felt that the angle ranking questions were so close that even if you had a protractor it wouldn't have helped. It's the only section that having a "messureing device" would have really helped. As far as folding paper, i bet it would take so much time to make sure you were folding correctly that you would run out of time. I think they still would've scored pretty high regardeless. just my two cents.

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that's what I thought too. Measuring angles on a bent computer screen doesn't work, and folding paper takes up too much time. So I thought they didn't bother to make it against the rules. I took the DAT so long ago i don't even remember if they gave a screen with rules in the beginning of it -- did they?

I called ADA and asked them, any measuring device is cheating. Prometric said they don't monitor that but they send all requested tapes to ADA and let them decide.

The students knew and have admitted to cheating, the ADA is revoking their original DAT scores and have sent a letter to all dental schools they applied to.

Remember guys any measuring device is cheating ( fingers, paper, pencils etc.)

HOTTY said:

I called ADA and asked them, any measuring device is cheating. Prometric said they don't monitor that but they send all requested tapes to ADA and let them decide.

The students knew and have admitted to cheating, the ADA is revoking their original DAT scores and have sent a letter to all dental schools they applied to.

Remember guys any measuring device is cheating ( fingers, paper, pencils etc.)

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WOW! That stinks for those applicants. But if they knew that they were intentionally cheating, it's their fault. Folding paper and Steroids is ruining our world.

HOTYY..u actually got the ADA to revoke thier scores? And u are complaining bout thier PAT score when u got 20+ in all areas? I agree..that is pretty damn childish..i sure hope ure not in my dental class..what a baby. What if they asked the testing center if they can touch the screen and they said yes? Is that still considered cheating? Just cuz ure obsessed with some dumb test, u take away people's chances to go to dental school..unreal!

ok

So If a teacher says a test is open book...is that cheating? Are you going to tell the principle on them?

No comment on your remark

man, i had no idea putting anything up to the screen was cheating. does it say this on the tutorial before the test?

PlanB21 said:

So If a teacher says a test is open book...is that cheating? Are you going to tell the principle on them?

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You spelled PRINCIPAL wrong...i'm telling on you!

Ok, I'm just trying to lighten it up so we don't get into name calling. I actually agree with hotty. Cheating is cheating, since they did know the rules, they should follow them. I don't know if I would have been "strong" enough, or felt it was a big enough infraction to report. But, at the same time, if someone cheats and succeeds, they will keep doing it over and over. When it comes to school, most people put in a great deal of honest hard work, and when someone cheats, it diminishes that. Some people simply feel more strongly about it than others, but there is no need to call any of them names. Glad to hear that the guys who cheated seem to be contrite though.

HOTTY said:

listen here numb-nuts,

They took away their chances at dental school. After I let the ADA know what happened, all of the guys cooperated with the investigation that concluded this morning. They realize they cheated, end of story.

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Not so fast Lemming. i agree if they know the rules, then (even though I think its to harsh) they may deserve their punishment. but according to hotty in the above statement, they realized they cheated AFTER the investigation...its different to say they knew then...and they know now...I believe hotty contradicted herself. in anycase, thats a pretty lame thing to do, but hey, i guess you've distinquished yourself as a gunner. btw, you should use this in your secondaries to show your leadership skills.

I agree that it is childish to tell on them. PAT is a small portion of the test and they worked really hard to do well on the exam and all of that is gone now. You can only cheat for a small portion of the PAT as well. Everyone knows someone that may have peeked over at someone else's answers during a test and they feel bad about it. Telling them that you and others do not appreciate their cheating and say that you could potentially tell on them, but to actually go through with it is excessive. I know you felt you did the right thing but at some point you give some slack to something small like cheating on the angles (like 15 questions).

HOTTY said:

listen here numb-nuts,

They took away their chances at dental school. After I let the ADA know what happened, all of the guys cooperated with the investigation that concluded this morning. They realize they cheated, end of story.

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Hey Hotty, what exactly did they use to measure the angles? I think this whole thing is interesting b/c people on SDN have openly discussed little "things" they did to help. Like I said above, I think it would just slow you down, but who knows.

p.s. If it matters to you, I'm not judging you for what you did, i'm just curious about what the circumstances are.

Good point for the most part, but misisng 15 vs missing 0 takes you from a 30 down to around a 24, assuming that they aced everything else on the PAT.


Sorry man, I can't tolerate any cheating at all! Not even a little, integrity is everything to me and it is a very important trait to possess as a professional.

Envision said:

but according to hotty in the above statement, they realized they cheated AFTER the investigation...its different to say they knew then...and they know now...I believe hotty contradicted herself. in anycase, thats a pretty lame thing to do, but hey, i guess you've distinquished yourself as a gunner. btw, you should use this in your secondaries to show your leadership skills.

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Must not have read close enough. Regardless, I feel that cheating is wrong. Like I alluded to though, I may have approached them about it, but I wouldn't have done more than that most likely.

Have any of you ever taken those personality tests before for jobs or anything? There is always that question about seeing someone cheating. What is the right answer??? What are people looking for in this question?

I'm just getting a kick out of the fact that people are having an interesting and relevant ethical discussion in the predents forum!

everybody is saying it's in the rules...can somebody show me where it says that you can't touch the screen?

I am really a top secret adcom member who knows all of your names and I want to see how you would repsond to the situation.

Thanks for the results, test is over.

PlanB21 fails the test and WSDriller aces it!

Good Job!

HOTTY said:

integrity is everything to me and it is a very important trait to possess as a professional.

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A very good point. Dentistry is a profession that involves a great deal of trust. Would you want a dentist that you can't trust? We're going to run into this a lot in our careers. Let's face it, not everyone is honest. May as well be learn how and be prepared to deal with it.

HOTTY said:

Good point for the most part, but misisng 15 vs missing 0 takes you from a 30 down to around a 24, assuming that they aced everything else on the PAT.


Sorry man, I can't tolerate any cheating at all! Not even a little, integrity is everything to me and it is a very important trait to possess as a professional.

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Missing 15 will actually get you like...a 20 or 21 i think. a 24 means you missed like 6.

I can't keep up...every time I post with my slow connection there are 3 other posts.....

It is all right you passed.

WHERE ARE THE RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(please!)

Call ADA, ask for Julie. She read them to me from the handbook.

So they don't give them to you on test day? That seems unreasonable.

pine88 said:

WHERE ARE THE RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(please!)

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pine.... did you touch the screen??!?!?! OMG!!! turn your-self in. I hear they go easier on you. Maybe they'll cut you a deal to flip on the rest of us

<SARCASM ALERT>


p.s. I case anyone is wondering... I didn't cheat

Items that are prohibited from the secure testing area include, but are not limited to the following:
Books, notes, study materials or scratch paper
Slide rules, paper, calculating devices, rulers or other measuring devices
Electronic devices, such as telephones, pagers, recording devices, personal digital assistants (PDAs), radios or stereos with headsets
Handbags; purses, wallets, backpacks, briefcases
Highlighters, pens, erasers, mechanical pencils, dictionaries, and translators
Food, candy, gum, water or other beverages
Outerwear, such as coats, jackets, gloves

I called the ADA before hand to ask what a "measuring device" was, they said anything other than your brain. (Hands, fingers, paper, nothing is to be placed at the screen.)

This could be fun to speculate.

Would using your hands to block the two angles that you're not comparing be considered cheating?

Are you not allowed to say what they exactly did that would classify as cheating?

jorUW said:

This could be fun to speculate.

Would using your hands to block the two angles that you're not comparing be considered cheating?

Are you not allowed to say what they exactly did that would classify as cheating?

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They used paper and pencils to measure and even traced the angles to compare them better.

HOTTY said:

I am really a top secret adcom member who knows all of your names and I want to see how you would repsond to the situation.

Thanks for the results, test is over.

PlanB21 fails the test and WSDriller aces it!

Good Job!

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I'm honored! What do I win?

Thanks Hotty, I may have missed that before. I still think it would be a waist of time, but thats a pretty obvious way of cheating.

IMO, Hotty, you seem more like a right wing ultra conservative than anything, especially a leader. Leadership involves a degree of tact, and from reading about this situation it appears you have none. I agree with you that integrity is of the utmost importance, but I feel as though you took it to the extreme. I mean going out of your way to possibly ruin someone's (or mutiple person's) chances of getting into dental school just because they used their hands, paper or whatever for help with the angle section is downright cruel.

Are you even sure that these people knew they were cheating? What if some of them honestly didn't know? And you feel completely at peace with yourself (on your high horse)...that is astonishing to me.

HOTTY said:

They used paper and pencils to measure and even traced the angles to compare them better.

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The paper at my testing center was thick, pink, and opaque. Even if someone wanted to trace the angles, it would not have been possible.