Rescission of Offer

MSTPDad said:

In other words, does the action of one school in rescinding its offer effect the student's chances at other schools?

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I would say whatever you or your child did to cause school A to rescind their offer would affect your/his/her chances at the other schools. If school A found out whatever you're trying to hide, what makes you think schools B and C won't.

DUI, institutional action, or something even more sinister?

So... I would think that this would really depend on the reason...

Is it common practice to accept offers at more than one school?

beauregard said:

So... I would think that this would really depend on the reason...

Is it common practice to accept offers at more than one school?

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before May 15, yes

Damn... I can't even imagine what you must have done.

I have no inside information on the admissions process - but from all I've learned through my own application, I get the impression that schools readily "share" information about applicants - especially if they, for example, found out the applicant was lying or hiding something pretty bad. I would say there's a pretty good chance school B is going to put in a call to schools A or C or AMCAS or the med school gods or whoever's in charge, and let them know the dirty details. Just cross your fingers and hope that doesn't happen!

FemalesCANTDriv said:

Damn... I can't even imagine what you must have done.

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check out his username, best case scenario (for our entertainment, of course) this is someone's dad trying to wiggle their little miscreant out of a pickle.


of course in reality it's probably much more boring.

Lulu8 said:

I have no inside information on the admissions process - but from all I've learned through my own application, I get the impression that schools readily "share" information about applicants - especially if they, for example, found out the applicant was lying or hiding something pretty bad. I would say there's a pretty good chance school B is going to put in a call to schools A or C or AMCAS or the med school gods or whoever's in charge, and let them know the dirty details. Just cross your fingers and hope that doesn't happen!

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It probably will. Especially if it was serious enough to cause them to rescind the offer. There is no database where schools share info, but schools that have accepted you can see other schools that have accepted you. So if whatever happened was truly terrible then yes they will probably look at the other schools that have accepted you or your son/daughter and will procede to call those schools up and let them know.

So in answer to your questions - no there is nothign automatically sent to the other schools informing them of the rescinssion, but they will likely find out anyway.

If I were you, I'd start looking back on my plan B.

It's hard to say without having some idea of the nature of the problem -- misrepresentation on the application? subsequent academic performance? academic misconduct? criminal conduct? The more serious the reason for rescinding the offer, I would think the more likely the information would be shared. In other words if your offer was rescinded because you murdered someone, I'd say they'd go to much greater lengths to get the word out than if your offer was rescinded because you forgot to list a cake decorating class you took at CC 8 years ago.

For a school to just pull an acceptance is a very big deal. What would lead to that would nothing trivial.

I also believe schools do talk. If school A does know that said student is accepted to School B (possible) and waitlisted at School C (probably unlikely), I would think it is quite possible that School A would would make any other school they knew about aware of whatever incident lead them to revoke an acceptance.

MSTPDad said:

Today School A "rescinds" its offer. It doesn't matter why, it just does so.

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Actually, it very much matters why. Fess up, what happened?

Going off of your username and where you have posted previously, I am going to assume it was an MSTP offer rescinded. Plenty of sharing occurs between schools about MD-only applicants, even more occurs regarding the very small pool of MSTP applicants. If Schools B and C do not already know, trust me, they will, either straight from School A director's mouth or the AAMC.

MSTPDad said:

...it dealt with statements made by the student at second look in a social context (he was drunk) which caused the school to rethink whether it wanted the student in its med school.

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Oh Good God

MSTPDad said:

Actually the reason for School A's rescission was not related to anything on the application, academic performance, dishonesty, any misrepresentation or any criminal activity of any kind whatsoever. Instead it dealt with statements made by the student at second look in a social context (he was drunk) which caused the school to rethink whether it wanted the student in its med school. It is my understanding that the school reserves the absolute right to do so for any reasons it deems appropriate.

I guess my most narrow question is a technical one: When School B looks up the other acceptances the student has, will the computer simply not list School A or will it flag School A as having made and then rescinded its offer? If the answer is that it will show the rescission then the student better be ready to talk about the circumstances and make a case for himself when he goes to his next second look (where, btw, he will be a teetotaler).

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Has the student made any attempt to make amends and apologies to the rescinding school? Is it too late?

My logic tells me that this is not the sort of thing that schools would share, unlike a criminal action or ethical problem that has suddenly come to light, etc. This borders on "gossip" as far as I can see - clearly undesirable behavior - but again it would seem strange to report this information to other schools.

Except that the way it has been explained, the computer system will reflect the withdrawn offer, so I do think he better have a good explanation ready...

If it were me, I would fly down to that school and park myself outside the office of the Director of Admissions (or whoever signed the letter) and beg for a second chance. Nothing to lose...

That sucks. What did he say? We're all dying to know.

Incidentally, I will be hitting the beers much lighter than planned in St. Louis this weekend.

MSTPDad said:

Instead it dealt with statements made by the student at second look in a social context (he was drunk) which caused the school to rethink whether it wanted the student in its med school. It is my understanding that the school reserves the absolute right to do so for any reasons it deems appropriate.

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Bravo to the school. I have witnessed some bad behavior by peers at second-looks and frankly, intoxication is never an excuse for racist or misogynistic remarks (would have to be one or the other to warrant rescission).

I guess my most narrow question is a technical one: When School B looks up the other acceptances the student has, will the computer simply not list School A or will it flag School A as having made and then rescinded its offer?

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You should ask LizzyM about this situation in the "Semi-Solicited Advice" thread for an official-ish answer.

postbacker said:

This borders on "gossip" as far as I can see - clearly undesirable behavior - but again it would seem strange to report this information to other schools.

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Directors gossip. If what the student said was despicable enough to warrant rescission of an offer (pretty extreme measure), a director might feel obligated to disclose the matter to other directors, on or off the record.

School A (Duke?) is gone, no amount of damage control will resurrect an offer. From what I have heard at second-looks, many MSTP programs have over-accepted by one or two people this year and, as always, the waitlists are deep.

His chances with School C are probably shot due to word of mouth. However, as School B probably cannot withdraw its offer based on an incident at another institution, that acceptance is likely safe. He should count himself lucky.

I think in all probability come May 15th when the other schools get to see other acceptances for their applicants there is a good chance that they might see this rescinded offer. I don't know if the school would feel compelled to actively warn other schools but it might if they were that put off by the student's comments. The best that the student can do is prepare the best explanation possible incase questioned and start thinking about a plan B. I don't think its the student's responsibility to report a rescinsion like it would be a criminal charge but I would review the language of the applications (AMCAS and 2ndary) and the acceptance letter just in case.

He called someone a "nappy-headed hoe," didn't he...

MSTPDad said:

Actually the reason for School A's rescission was not related to anything on the application, academic performance, dishonesty, any misrepresentation or any criminal activity of any kind whatsoever. Instead it dealt with statements made by the student at second look in a social context (he was drunk) which caused the school to rethink whether it wanted the student in its med school. It is my understanding that the school reserves the absolute right to do so for any reasons it deems appropriate.

I guess my most narrow question is a technical one: When School B looks up the other acceptances the student has, will the computer simply not list School A or will it flag School A as having made and then rescinded its offer? If the answer is that it will show the rescission then the student better be ready to talk about the circumstances and make a case for himself when he goes to his next second look (where, btw, he will be a teetotaler).

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OMG, are you kidding? The statements in question must have been beyond obnoxious .... did he insult the dean's mother?

Anyway, since it was apparently more of an 'etiquette' type violation, rather than a criminal, ethical, or academic violation, it seems much less likely the admissions office would feel obligated to pass on the info. Could happen, though, so be prepared with a really good explanation. Also, while the decision has already been made, a direct and sincere apology to the offended party might help to minimize the chance of someone wanting to 'get even' with the offender by notifying the other schools.

MSTPDad said:

The student revieved the rescission letter today by FedEx. It was signed by the Dean of Admissions and seems very final. The student sent a heartfelt apology immediately but has accepted his fate as to that school (which was, before today, his first choice).

He is now in damage control mode.

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poor kid! I think vigorous begging and apologizing could be a useful strategy. Also, look into the bylaws of the school, and see if in fact the dean reserves the right to do this, or does it need to be reviewed by the comitee. See if the school followed all the rules. good luck!

Tired Pigeon said:

OMG, are you kidding? The statements in question must have been beyond obnoxious .... did he insult the dean's mother?

Anyway, since it was apparently more of an 'etiquette' type violation, rather than a criminal, ethical, or academic violation, it seems much less likely the admissions office would feel obligated to pass on the info. Could happen, though, so be prepared with a really good explanation. Also, while the decision has already been made, a direct and sincere apology to the offended party might help to minimize the chance of someone wanting to 'get even' with the offender by notifying the other schools.

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I would think that this is the type of thing that would be passed on, while academic and legal violations would not because the other schools would learn this anyway (if school A learns, school B will learn). On the other hand, someone was so offended by what this person said that they rescinded the offer of acceptance. It must have been bad. So it might be something Dean A passes on to Dean B as a warning (since otherwise Dean B would never know)

surfbro said:

poor kid! I think vigorous begging and apologizing could be a useful strategy. Also, look into the bylaws of the school, and see if in fact the dean reserves the right to do this, or does it need to be reviewed by the comitee. See if the school followed all the rules. good luck!

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I agree - I would fly down there and beg for mercy in person, not with any expectation that the school will reverse the decision, but in the hopes that if/when this AD gets a call from School B, he will be more forgiving...this kid needs to fight to rebuild his reputation with School A whether or not he ever sets foot on the campus again, and that begins with an "in person" apology, tears optional...simply sending a letter of apology is insufficient.

This story has "legend" written all over it...

Regardless of whether they'd find out, I think School B would be really leery of rescinding an offer based on the non-illegal conduct of a student at at second look weekend. School A can do it because it happened at their school. School B doesn't have anything solid like a criminal record or reported academic misconduct to base their rescision on, leaving them open to a possible lawsuit from the student.

I (a know-nothing pre-med) agree with Doctor Bagel. The school that changed their minds made a value judgment that "we don't want that type of person in our school." It was not even close to being illegal or even dishonest. If they want to do it, that's fine. No other schools have a right to do so.

I highly doubt a school will "run home to Mom" to tell her that someone is picking on them. It looks childish.

Dear Dean XYZ,

MSTPDad's kid said something racist/sexist/somethingist at our second look weekend. We all heard it. He's a jackass. We know that you accepted him, but we think you should reconsider his acceptance. After all, we all heard it.

(Not trying to mock you, just trying to make you feel better because I don't think this will be a problem)

Sounds like hearsay in a lawsuit. Maybe Law2Doc will enlighten us.

wow gettin ****faced at second look? anesthesiologist in training?

Doctor Bagel said:

Regardless of whether they'd find out, I think School B would be really leery of rescinding an offer based on the non-illegal conduct of a student at at second look weekend. School A can do it because it happened at their school. School B doesn't have anything solid like a criminal record or reported academic misconduct to base their rescision on, leaving them open to a possible lawsuit from the student.

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If it was something the student said, AND enough to get an offer rescinded, it's pretty bad. Whatever it is, isn't particularly important. Being drunk, and talking smack is a red flag on so many levels. First, it gets at the deceptiveness of the student, who obviously appeared pretty wholesome in the interviews - makes the school wonder what else is being covered up. Second, shows incredibly bad judgment to be drunk in such a setting and lose control to that extent. And worse, this feeds back on itself. If it wasn't a poor judgment slip of the tongue because of too much alcohol, then it wasn't much alcohol and it gets back to the character issue; a creep in sheep's clothing.

As Bergman once said : "Doomed! Doomed! Doomed!"

Does anyone think that it's kind of strange that a lot of schools go out of their way to get second look attendees wasted at night? At one second look we drank with some of the adcom members, including the dean, and some people got preeeeeeeety hammered. From what i've seen, the student either said something really terrible or the dean is too sensitive, because it's not like all the people at the second looks i've been to were at their best behavior when they were drunk.

JackofAllTrades said:

I (a know-nothing pre-med) agree with Doctor Bagel. The school that changed their minds made a value judgment that "we don't want that type of person in our school." It was not even close to being illegal or even dishonest. If they want to do it, that's fine. No other schools have a right to do so.

I highly doubt a school will "run home to Mom" to tell her that someone is picking on them. It looks childish.

Dear Dean XYZ,

MSTPDad's kid said something racist/sexist/somethingist at our second look weekend. We all heard it. He's a jackass. We know that you accepted him, but we think you should reconsider his acceptance. After all, we all heard it.

(Not trying to mock you, just trying to make you feel better because I don't think this will be a problem)

Sounds like hearsay in a lawsuit. Maybe Law2Doc will enlighten us.

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you dont know yet that it ISNT illegal. It probably just happened, but if it got around, it's quite possible more than one person heard it, and more than one was offended, and potentially, it could be anything, including "hate speech", and therefore, the illegality of it, and the fact that it could end up resulting in a lawsuit, has yet to be determined.

I would say the chance of getting back into that school is zero, and there is a low probability for now of other schools finding out, but that probability rises depending on just how terrible a thing was said, and the potential for further action to be taken against said student.

GoGoPandaBot said:

If it was something the student said, AND enough to get an offer rescinded, it's pretty bad. Whatever it is, isn't particularly important. Being drunk, and talking smack is a red flag on so many levels. First, it gets at the deceptiveness of the student, who obviously appeared pretty wholesome in the interviews - makes the school wonder what else is being covered up. Second, shows incredibly bad judgment to be drunk in such a setting and lose control to that extent. And worse, this feeds back on itself. If it wasn't a poor judgment slip of the tongue because of too much alcohol, then it wasn't much alcohol and it gets back to the character issue; a creep in sheep's clothing.

As Bergman once said : "Doomed! Doomed! Doomed!"

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I don't agree with this. There are many people that can't hold their alcohol, but that doesn't mean that they are bad people when they are sober, or that they really believe what they say when they are drunk. I know people say that the truth comes out with the alcohol, but I personally know many people where this is not the case.

Your second point is valid though. If it is the case that you can't hold your alcohol, then you definitely shouldn't drink, especially not during a second look weekend.

For the REAL conspiracy theorists out there... if this kid was at all vocal about the location of his other acceptance with the other students at that second look, and one of them was perhaps on that schools waitlist and wanted to go there, what's to stop one of the other students from making an anonymous phone call? Might not carry much weight, but whoooo knows.

Alcohol doesn't make you say things you don't really believe. It will make you say things you don't want other people to know you believe though!

I don't think any of us has experience with this kind of thing, so no one can really predict what will happen to your son. I tend to agree with what most people are saying, though -- that is, he probably WILL NOT lose his spot at the other schools, but the effect of this incident probably WILL reach beyond the one school that booted him.

If it were me, I would 1.) start making phone calls and 2.) get professional help for chemical dependency.

#2 is not just a gesture (though it would be something worth mentioning in your son's many apologies he will be making now and in the future). If he could, in a single night, essentially destroy a lifetime of hard work that it took for him to get an MSTP spot at a top school, think of what else might destroy. I'm no prude, but it's obvious the kid needs to get a handle on his relationship with booze, and he needs to demonstrate that he has what it takes to be in control of his life and his profession.

cubbbie said:

I don't think any of us has experience with this kind of thing, so no one can really predict what will happen to your son. I tend to agree with what most people are saying, though -- that is, he probably WILL NOT lose his spot at the other schools, but the effect of this incident probably WILL reach beyond the one school that booted him.

If it were me, I would 1.) start making phone calls and 2.) get professional help for chemical dependency.

#2 is not just a gesture (though it would be something worth mentioning in your son's many apologies he will be making now and in the future). If he could, in a single night, essentially destroy a lifetime of hard work that it took for him to get an MSTP spot at a top school, think of what else might destroy. I'm no prude, but it's obvious the kid needs to get a handle on his relationship with booze, and he needs to demonstrate that he has what it takes to be in control of his life and his profession.

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That and he could pull a Ted Kennedy and suddenly receive pity for his error. At least no one was murder/killed in a car that inexplicable fell off a bridge...

ggman said:

I don't agree with this. There are many people that can't hold their alcohol, but that doesn't mean that they are bad people when they are sober, or that they really believe what they say when they are drunk. I know people say that the truth comes out with the alcohol, but I personally know many people where this is not the case.

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I don't know...of course we're all speculating, but if the student said or did something so horrible that they lost their admissions offer, it had to have been something pretty racist/sexist/etc....and as far as your point that people lie when plastered, I don't know too many genuinely compassionate/open-minded people who randomly spew hate speech when drunk, especially when around strangers and school officials.

GoGoPandaBot said:

you dont know yet that it ISNT illegal. It probably just happened, but if it got around, it's quite possible more than one person heard it, and more than one was offended, and potentially, it could be anything, including "hate speech", and therefore, the illegality of it, and the fact that it could end up resulting in a lawsuit, has yet to be determined.

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Hate speech isn't illegal. At least not yet. Now if this were a European med school maybe..........

My money is on him making a comment to an attractive faculty member.......which happened at my school BTW. Calling the assistant dean a MILF is never a good thing.

Hallm_7 said:

Hate speech isn't illegal. At least not yet. Now if this were a European med school maybe..........

My money is on him making a comment to an attractive faculty member.......which happened at my school BTW. Calling the assistant dean a MILF is never a good thing.

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Ha...I've definitely heard stories (from a few admissions officers) about people getting rejected for being particularly rude and/or condescending to admissions staff during interview days....

Well.......What did you/he say????? It's KILLING me.

surfbro said:

poor kid! I think vigorous begging and apologizing could be a useful strategy. Also, look into the bylaws of the school, and see if in fact the dean reserves the right to do this, or does it need to be reviewed by the comitee. See if the school followed all the rules. good luck!

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If I were that student, I wouldn't want to go there anymore, now that relations with the higher-ups have been soured.

Lulu8 said:

Well.......What did you/he say????? It's KILLING me.

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I personally think it had to have been worse than this
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF9BjB7Bzr0[/YOUTUBE]

A similar situation happened at a recruit weekend for my girlfriend's graduate program. This guy apparently got extremely intoxicated. His inappropriate comment to one of the female recruiters was something along the lines of, "I can't believe I'm actually having a normal conversation with you. Normally, I'd be focusing my time on trying to get some ass." It was enough for the school to revoke his acceptance.

AnEyeLikeMars said:

I would think that this is the type of thing that would be passed on, while academic and legal violations would not because the other schools would learn this anyway (if school A learns, school B will learn). On the other hand, someone was so offended by what this person said that they rescinded the offer of acceptance. It must have been bad. So it might be something Dean A passes on to Dean B as a warning (since otherwise Dean B would never know)

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I never said it wouldn't be passed on, just that there was likely no sense of an absolute obligation to do so.

off-topic, but honestly, who the bloody hell says "nappy headed hos"? *throws arms into air* WHAT? WHAT?

Severus said:

off-topic, but honestly, who the bloody hell says "nappy headed hos"? *throws arms into air* WHAT? WHAT?

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Sev, I knew you'd get it. I've been making references to Imus all day on these damn boards and no one has picked up on it. Thank god somebody stays up to date with current events.

Severus said:

off-topic, but honestly, who the bloody hell says "nappy headed hos"? *throws arems into air* WHAT? WHAT?

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Yeah, Imus went too far (even for Imus), but did you catch any of the "interview" he did on Al Sharpton's show? Rev. Al was making a bit of a spectacle of himself that if anything made Imus seem like the coherent, rational one....

cubbbie said:

I don't think any of us has experience with this kind of thing, so no one can really predict what will happen to your son. I tend to agree with what most people are saying, though -- that is, he probably WILL NOT lose his spot at the other schools, but the effect of this incident probably WILL reach beyond the one school that booted him.

If it were me, I would 1.) start making phone calls and 2.) get professional help for chemical dependency.

#2 is not just a gesture (though it would be something worth mentioning in your son's many apologies he will be making now and in the future). If he could, in a single night, essentially destroy a lifetime of hard work that it took for him to get an MSTP spot at a top school, think of what else might destroy. I'm no prude, but it's obvious the kid needs to get a handle on his relationship with booze, and he needs to demonstrate that he has what it takes to be in control of his life and his profession.

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This is quite an overstatement. I have no idea what his child said, but whatever it was, it's not like his lifetime of hard work is all for naught. I hope you never answer phones for a suicide hotline.

Although none of us knows whether school A will contact the other schools, the consensus seems to be that his acceptance to school B is probably safe. Whatever he did must have been pretty horrible, and he'll have to live with the consequences of not going to his first choice, but people are allowed to make mistakes and he'll be fine if he learns from it.

HumbleMD said:

Sev, I knew you'd get it. I've been making references to Imus all day on these damn boards and no one has picked up on it. Thank god somebody stays up to date with current events.

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No, I think it is more because everyone just tries to ignore you.

Then I don't know how to handle that.

FemalesCANTDriv said:

No, I think it is more because everyone just tries to ignore you.

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HumbleMD said:

Sev, I knew you'd get it. I've been making references to Imus all day on these damn boards and no one has picked up on it. Thank god somebody stays up to date with current events.

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Hey, well, what can I say? Occasionally my minute-by-minute coverage of Anna Nicole's life/death/autopsy/paternity suit gets interrupted by crappy stories like this or Darfur or Iran or you know, other stuff that nobody cares about. It's a total drag man... like f'er sure, totally.