Suggestion of reasonable NYC programs

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Sean2tall

Sean2tall

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Hey, just wondering if anyone can give advice regarding the NYC programs. If you have seen my list elsewhere, NYC has not been the focus of my applications, but I am trying to expand my list of programs a little bit. There is somewhat of a geographical limitation of certain cities where my wife would need to go to school and NYC is a possibility.

Any of the NY programs you would recommend applying to? There are a million and I have zero familiarity with them. Specifically middle of the road competitiveness, not particularly malignant, see enough pathology to become (hopefully more than) competent. Thanks for any advice.
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You may like Albert Einstein, they may not be very well known outside of NY, but it is a well respected in NY quite strong program, program director is great, they have housing (important for NYC). Negatives: it is in the Bronx, but it is not that bad. Cornell is strong, more competitive, and intense, also has housing, great location -Upper East side; Mount Sinai is similar. Columbia, I've heard is very good, but I didn't interview there. NYU, I don't know, I had mixed impressions. There are also smaller progrms: Roosevelt- St. Lukes- good location (West Side, housing), Lenox Hill, but these are large community hospitlas, not university centers. Than there are Downstate in Brooklyn- pretty bad neighborhood, but a large center,not sure about teaching; LIJ and Stony Brook on Long Island. LIJ was strong at some point, now I don't know, things are changing there. Stony Brook is pretty far east on the Island, research there is pretty good. You may also look at UMDNJ in Jersey, I've heard some good things, but don't know much about them. Yale isn't to far from NYC, about 70-80 miles.
 
abercrombie said:
You may like Albert Einstein, they may not be very well known outside of NY, but it is a well respected in NY quite strong program, program director is great, they have housing (important for NYC). Negatives: it is in the Bronx, but it is not that bad. Cornell is strong, more competitive, and intense, also has housing, great location -Upper East side; Mount Sinai is similar. Columbia, I've heard is very good, but I didn't interview there. NYU, I don't know, I had mixed impressions. There are also smaller progrms: Roosevelt- St. Lukes- good location (West Side, housing), Lenox Hill, but these are large community hospitlas, not university centers. Than there are Downstate in Brooklyn- pretty bad neighborhood, but a large center,not sure about teaching; LIJ and Stony Brook on Long Island. LIJ was strong at some point, now I don't know, things are changing there. Stony Brook is pretty far east on the Island, research there is pretty good. You may also look at UMDNJ in Jersey, I've heard some good things, but don't know much about them. Yale isn't to far from NYC, about 70-80 miles.
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Thanks. When you say housing, you mean that there is something available on the site?
 
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I hear Mt Sinai is the greatest program in the world ;)

I say that sarcastically, only because everytime I mention NYC people seem to pop up to defend Mt Sinai as an amazing program with huge volume, the best teachers, and many historical firsts. to wit: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=310557

I don't know anything personally about Mt Sinai other than the fact it has a huge volume. I met a couple of residents who trained there and they had good things to say about it. They also have a few fellowships.

In my book, Cornell has probably become the "most prestigious" NYC program. Over the past few years they have hired a number of faculty who are renowned in their field. They had some difficulties a few years ago with retaining people but that seems to have passed. A lot of people really want to live in NYC and thus NYC programs become more attractive. If you don't want to live in NYC, going to one of these programs becomes much less attractive, and thus the city (and not the program) becomes the determining factor more than most other programs in other cities.

The other programs (including Columbia and NYU) are good programs but have drawbacks. But any program you are interested in you should visit. NYU and Columbia are likely good programs that may be right for some people, just like every other program. The fact remains that apart from MSKCC (which only has fellowships) the other programs are overshadowed by those to the east and a bit to the south. Whether that matters to you as a candidate is a different question though.

As I have said, that doesn't matter to me much, prestige is a relative thing, what matters to me is that I find NYC to be a soulless pit of despair where happiness and common sense go to die and money evaporates into the air. I would only live there if I had at least $100 million in the bank and I could therefore afford to have other people deal with it for me.
 
yaah said:
I hear Mt Sinai is the greatest program in the world ;)

I say that sarcastically, only because everytime I mention NYC people seem to pop up to defend Mt Sinai as an amazing program with huge volume, the best teachers, and many historical firsts. to wit: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=310557

I don't know anything personally about Mt Sinai other than the fact it has a huge volume. I met a couple of residents who trained there and they had good things to say about it. They also have a few fellowships.

In my book, Cornell has probably become the "most prestigious" NYC program. Over the past few years they have hired a number of faculty who are renowned in their field. They had some difficulties a few years ago with retaining people but that seems to have passed. A lot of people really want to live in NYC and thus NYC programs become more attractive. If you don't want to live in NYC, going to one of these programs becomes much less attractive, and thus the city (and not the program) becomes the determining factor more than most other programs in other cities.

The other programs (including Columbia and NYU) are good programs but have drawbacks. But any program you are interested in you should visit. NYU and Columbia are likely good programs that may be right for some people, just like every other program. The fact remains that apart from MSKCC (which only has fellowships) the other programs are overshadowed by those to the east and a bit to the south. Whether that matters to you as a candidate is a different question though.

As I have said, that doesn't matter to me much, prestige is a relative thing, what matters to me is that I find NYC to be a soulless pit of despair where happiness and common sense go to die and money evaporates into the air. I would only live there if I had at least $100 million in the bank and I could therefore afford to have other people deal with it for me.
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Not to mention the frickin' Yankees...but I digress :cool:
 
Ahh thanks, HCE. I wonder what they mean by "competitive prices"? ;)

And thanks also, yaah. I know what you mean about NYC, the thought is semi-ominous to me of going there, but I figured I would keep an open mind.

Have a good weekend all!
 
I have to disagree with you. NYC is an amazing city, which offers more than any other place in North America: from the shopping of downtown and Fifth av. to schools and the beaches of Long Island. No questions, it is expensive, so as any other big city. San-Francisco and Boston are almost as expensive as NY, Chicago may be an exception, bacause it is not on the coast. You have to spend some time in NY to actually appreciate it. A lot of people come to the city hating it, but in a few months they fall in love with the place. As far as the hospital housing, for Einstein it not on site, but close. Cornell and Roosevelt St.Lukes have housing right across the hospitals. Don't be afraid of the city, it is not a monster :). I would agree with Yaah, Cornell is probably the strongest city program now, but Columbia is also very much respected. Mt Sinai besides huge volume has some great attendings, Einstein/Montefiore is very good if you are looking for a bit less intense place.
 
abercrombie said:
You have to spend some time in NY to actually appreciate it. A lot of people come to the city hating it, but in a few months they fall in love with the place.
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I have spent a lot of time there and I find something new to dislike every time. And many people who are enamored with it are people who have only been there a couple of times visiting/vacationing. It's like my wife, who has this friend who is obsessed with Australia to the point that she actually wants to uproot her entire life which includes a husband with a great government job and her own established graduate degree-level career to move there. Just because she likes Australia. She has been there once.

For the right kind of person though, NYC is a great place for residency (or med school). And MSKCC is a great place for fellowships.

There are a lot of programs of different types in NYC, so it is a good place to consider looking. Just don't start calling it "The City." ;)
 
HCE said:
Sean, its not on site, because they provide free and continuous transportation between the hospital and the housing (at least that is what their Website indicates.)

http://www.aecom.yu.edu/pathology/search_programs.aspx?id=166 Under "Resident Life"
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As of a few years ago, Einstein had 3 apartment buildings, 2 adjacent to Montefiore hospital, one in Riverdale (nice neighborhood, but not adjacent to hospital). None of the 3 buildings are adjacent to the medical school campus, where you also do rotations (Weiler hospital)

As for transportation, there are vans that go between Riverdale and Montefiore hospital, and minibuses that go between Montefiore hospital and Weiler. However, these vans and buses stopped running at about 7PM. so if you are on surg path, you can forget about relying on that.

Unfortunately, parking was not ideal either. It was ~$60 a month to park at Montefiore, and that lot filled up such that you had to do stack parking, which sucks for all involved. Parking at Weiler is free but the lot fills up fast and then you have to find street parking, which can be a severe pain, especially on a snow day.
 
Sean2tall said:
Hey, just wondering if anyone can give advice regarding the NYC programs. If you have seen my list elsewhere, NYC has not been the focus of my applications, but I am trying to expand my list of programs a little bit. There is somewhat of a geographical limitation of certain cities where my wife would need to go to school and NYC is a possibility.

Any of the NY programs you would recommend applying to? There are a million and I have zero familiarity with them. Specifically middle of the road competitiveness, not particularly malignant, see enough pathology to become (hopefully more than) competent. Thanks for any advice.
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Does anyone have any residency or rotation experience or other information on this program? Thanks
 
I'm at St. Vincent's right now for my Sub-I in medicine. Path there is very small. They don't have the facilities or the faculty that other NYC programs do. Almost no research is going on. It would be very similar to a community hospital path program.
 
Trenchcoat said:
I'm at St. Vincent's right now for my Sub-I in medicine. Path there is very small. They don't have the facilities or the faculty that other NYC programs do. Almost no research is going on. It would be very similar to a community hospital path program.
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Also, they don't go through the Match... They offer positions prior...
 
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i am a current pgy4 ap/cp resident at cornell.

i strongly recommend cornell if you are sure you want to be in nyc. the only other program that is about on par with us in my opinion is columbia (our sister hospital). the major advantage of cornell is the housing and location. It is subsidized and the rent is deducted from your paycheck. An apartment in the upper east side of manhattan that would normally cost about $2000/month or more is about $1400-1500/month. The housing for residents is adjacent to the hospital. You will have about a 30 second commute to work and you may even take a subterranean tunnel from your apartment building to the hospital if you so choose.

The major strong points of our program, in my opinion, are breast (PPR), GI (Dr Yantiss), GYN (Drs Ellenson and Bergen), and DERM (Dr Magro). The CP is also improving constantly. Recently, we have a great new chemist from MGH (Dr Agrawal) and blood banker (Dr Cushing from Emory). We even have one CP-only resident who plans on pursuing transfusion medicine—a result of the contagious enthusiasm of our new recruit.

My co-residents have all secured fellowships of their choice: molecular (1), lung path (1), GI (1) and derm (2).

I recommend doing an elective here if you are interested to see if you think you can fit in and handle NYC living (which is expensive but fun).

Good luck!
 
CornellDerm said:
i am a current pgy4 ap/cp resident at cornell.

i strongly recommend cornell if you are sure you want to be in nyc. the only other program that is about on par with us in my opinion is columbia (our sister hospital). the major advantage of cornell is the housing and location. It is subsidized and the rent is deducted from your paycheck. An apartment in the upper east side of manhattan that would normally cost about $2000/month or more is about $1400-1500/month. The housing for residents is adjacent to the hospital. You will have about a 30 second commute to work and you may even take a subterranean tunnel from your apartment building to the hospital if you so choose.

The major strong points of our program, in my opinion, are breast (PPR), GI (Dr Yantiss), GYN (Drs Ellenson and Bergen), and DERM (Dr Magro). The CP is also improving constantly. Recently, we have a great new chemist from MGH (Dr Agrawal) and blood banker (Dr Cushing from Emory). We even have one CP-only resident who plans on pursuing transfusion medicine—a result of the contagious enthusiasm of our new recruit.

My co-residents have all secured fellowships of their choice: molecular (1), lung path (1), GI (1) and derm (2).

I recommend doing an elective here if you are interested to see if you think you can fit in and handle NYC living (which is expensive but fun).

Good luck!
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Do you know how many spots cornell is offering for PGY1 path this year? It's been rumored that there are only 3-4 spots.
 
THanks cornell derm for sharing your thoughts.
 
:eek::eek:classic cornell response. I agree with one thing this person said which is GO THERE AND SEE FOR YOURSELF.
Cornell sounds like they are hemorrhaging attendings. One cytologist is coming back. One GI person left and the GU person left after only a few months therel. The only things Cornell and Columbia share are the name. while true Dr. Rosen is there and a large asset he is nearing retirement. Dr. Magro is well known for being both a prominent dermatopathologist and a lunatic who was fired from her job in Ohio because she refused to work with residents or fellows.Hemepath is definitely Cornell's strength but the Chair who is a famous guy doesn't do any sign out (not uncommon for Chairs) Dr. Yantiss is leaving for private practice. Cornell has NO soft tissue pathologist, NO bone pathologist, NO lung pathologist, NO renal pathologist, NO liver pathologist, NO gu pathologist and NO head and neck pathologist, and only one neuropatholgist who only does autopsy brains because all the tumors are sent to Columbia. BUT MAN DOES IT HAVE HOUSING.I hear they get a lot of exercise bringing any tough cases to MSKCC which is down the block from cornell. I think they do rotations at MSKCC which is also a big plus.
seriously cornell is far below columbia, Sinai, and NYU and Downstate and more equal to Montifiore and Lenox Hill but still better than St. Vincent.




The major strong points of our program, in my opinion, are breast (PPR), GI (Dr Yantiss), GYN (Drs Ellenson and Bergen), and DERM (Dr Magro). The CP is also improving constantly. Recently, we have a great new chemist from MGH (Dr Agrawal) and blood banker (Dr Cushing from Emory). We even have one CP-only resident who plans on pursuing transfusion medicine—a result of the contagious enthusiasm of our new recruit.

My co-residents have all secured fellowships of their choice: molecular (1), lung path (1), GI (1) and derm (2).

I recommend doing an elective here if you are interested to see if you think you can fit in and handle NYC living (which is expensive but fun).
 
Well, as I have said many a time, there are many different viewpoints to situations.

I had not heard Dr Yantiss was leaving. She doesn't strike me as the private practice sort. And I thought Cornell just hired Mark Rubin from Brigham, didn't they? Or was it MSKCC that hired him? I always confuse the two for some reason. I wouldn't say they are hemorrhaging attendings - there is always turnover. But it is always good for potential resident candidates to evaluate things like faculty turnover, and ask why. No one should feel uncomfortable about asking people at your interview days about things like that. It is your future.

There are many rumors about why Magro left the OSU. I haven't heard many that are flattering though.
 
i totally agree interview and ask questions like, what happens when you have a tough case and there is no in house specialist? how many attendings have left and how many are coming and where did they go or come from...etc etc. dont take any blog word for it check out every place you are interested in yourself but don't get swept up in superficial stuff like how good the lunch is.

sorry forgot some. cornell also has no cardiac pathologist which i guess they don't need since they don't do any heart or lung transplants. I also don't think they do kidney or liver transplant there but I'm not sure. That would explain why they have no kidney or liver pathologists either. ok lastly there is no cornell children's hospital so they don't have pedi path either. Its kind of Columbia's community practice hospital. kidding
 
thanks for the post sicko. really appreciate the opposing viewpoint.
 
King Arthur said:
thanks for the post sicko. really appreciate the opposing viewpoint.
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no problem. got any more specific questions just ask and if i know anything I'll let you know. I have a lot of friends at path programs around the states (mostly NE) Good luck with your decisions!
 
nycsicko said:
:eek::eek:classic cornell response. I agree with one thing this person said which is GO THERE AND SEE FOR YOURSELF.
Cornell sounds like they are hemorrhaging attendings. One cytologist is coming back. One GI person left and the GU person left after only a few months therel. The only things Cornell and Columbia share are the name. while true Dr. Rosen is there and a large asset he is nearing retirement. Dr. Magro is well known for being both a prominent dermatopathologist and a lunatic who was fired from her job in Ohio because she refused to work with residents or fellows.Hemepath is definitely Cornell's strength but the Chair who is a famous guy doesn't do any sign out (not uncommon for Chairs) Dr. Yantiss is leaving for private practice. Cornell has NO soft tissue pathologist, NO bone pathologist, NO lung pathologist, NO renal pathologist, NO liver pathologist, NO gu pathologist and NO head and neck pathologist, and only one neuropatholgist who only does autopsy brains because all the tumors are sent to Columbia. BUT MAN DOES IT HAVE HOUSING.I hear they get a lot of exercise bringing any tough cases to MSKCC which is down the block from cornell. I think they do rotations at MSKCC which is also a big plus.
seriously cornell is far below columbia, Sinai, and NYU and Downstate and more equal to Montifiore and Lenox Hill but still better than St. Vincent.


I'm just going to set a few things straight, and clear up some of the nonsense that this clown wants you all to believe. Obviously this person has never come here and seen for himself or herself.
Number One, chances are this kid is jealous of what we have at Cornell. Nothing to be jealous of my friend, but if you knew what the score was you'd know that Cornell is at least as good as any other NYC program. And like all programs we have our strong points and we have our weak points.
Two-Not sure where this kid gets the information, obviously in the know but also obviously only hears things and then repeats them to people who have little opportunity to find out the truth for themselves. We have an excellent program and excellent pathologists here but no matter what you do no program is going to do the work for you. Mind you that, no matter where you go you will have to work hard to become a good pathologist and at Cornell, the tools to succeed and do well in any field at all are all here. The only question is do you want to work for it or do you want to hide behind some name and believe what others tell you?
And pray tell little guy, where did you train that is oh so high and mighty above Cornell? That much we haven't heard.
By all means, any questions about the program, feel free to ask. And if you're all hung up on housing then maybe you should go into real estate instead of medicine.
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you sound like you work for the Bush administation. big on aggressive talk and low on facts. I notice you didn't contradict anything I said. Hmmmm...interesting. So who is your liver patholgist? CV path? Bone? Soft tissue? Head and neck? ETC ETC ETC. Where are your WMD's?

I would like to once again repete that the most important thing is to go places and see for yourself and doing a rotation is a great idea if yuo have the time and means.You have to be careful because people like this cornell nut job are defensive of their programs no matter what the facts are and will tell you everything is great.

I will not tell you where I am training but I can say that we have 4 times the number of specimens that you have and fellowship trained attendings in every area of pathology. And its not ME who is all about real estate - its THOSE GUYS. Good luck to all. Even you Cornellies.
 
Jesus, I can feel the seething hatred in this thread...TBH none of the NYC programs are worth it because there isnt a single job worth crap in the NYC area that your local rep might get you.

I would pick a program like Iowa, WashU or Emory any day of the week over all these.
 
i guess that depends what you consider a worthwhile job. if you are looking to make 400,000 out of residency you probably need to move to Iowa or some other state that has to pay you that much to attract you there. If you want to live someplace that has some character you live in NY and settle for the 200,000 you will make. obviously it makes it hard if you have a family.

Emory is another great program, good point LADoc. If you want small state I would recommend Mayo over Iowa though. Wash U is definitely in decline.

More importantly if you go to a good program (anywhere -emory iowa osu Uwash) they will know the people you need them to know to get whatever kind of job (anywhere Iowa new york mississippi). its a small world and the big wigs at your big named program will be known by everyone who will be hiring you.

But go to Iowa and get a job in Iowa and leave the big cities for me :)
 
nycsicko said:
Emory is another great program, good point LADoc. If you want small state I would recommend Mayo over Iowa though. Wash U is definitely in decline.
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I don't think so. Mayo is not the best place to do residency, although it is certainly good - the residents are sort of "peripheral components" in a sense. They definitely do learn and become good pathologists, but the fellows do most of the actual work. But Mayo attracts smart residents who can compensate for this, IMHO, and obviously the specimen volume and history are pretty much unbeatable. But it has its own way of doing things which anyone who interviews there has to be aware of and understand what they are getting into. Mayo residents take less AP call than any other program. It also is going through a large faculty turnover (lots of people left including Abraham, Burghart, Myers, Visscher, Unni, a couple others) although I think they have righted the ship now.

But Iowa is a great program, teaching is emphasized more than most places. If you are the type of person who likes a place like Iowa City you should definitely interview there.

I agree I think about Emory, I don't know much about it but they are big and expanding. They just poached Adsay from Wayne State which was probably a coup for them. He is a great teacher.

As for NY "having character,"... :laugh: That's one way to put it.
 
I have to admit I don't know much about Iowa. State Universities traditionally have very strong programs though and I suspect Iowa would be the same. I have been to Iowa twice times for student government functions and it IS beautiful. I got a chance to go fishing there and it was awesome. I guess I would only say you don't hear of a lot of big names there. I would say once again intereview anyplace you think you would like to live and make sure they see a lot of specimens and make sure they see a broad range of specimens - there are lots of Univerisity hopsitals that don't see a broad range of disease and thats a real downside of some otherwise good hospitals. You can read all the books nd memorize all the facts but you really need to see lots of cases to become good which is of course the goal.

not sure why the dig at NYC but there seem to be a lot (like millions) of people who want to live here so its ok if you don't.
 
you poor bitter man. you need a hug.

I'm glad you love where you are. Thats what its all about.

Now how does this help people with choosing a residency?
 
nycsicko said:
you poor bitter man. you need a hug.

I'm glad you love where you are. Thats what its all about.

Now how does this help people with choosing a residency?
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Not to add fuel to this fire, but lets be honest folks. NYC programs are not top tier. They havent been in a long time. Aside from a small handful of fellowships (that may not even be that good anymore), there have been very much out of favor/declining since the 80s. I applied to surg path at MSKCC and they emailed me back with a interview within 24hrs..not really a place where many AMGs would have a hard time getting in FFS.

I wouldnt put any program in the category of UCSF, Stanford, BWH, Hopkins, WashU, Penn, Emory, UVa, Mich or even UW-Seattle post-assassination.

For some stuff Im sure NYC is the top end, but for Pathology, no. Hence I couldnt honestly recommend going there given the risk:benefit ratio of the sky high cost of living, hell even fellows at Cornell/Columbia have agreed with me on this.

I would say Cornell-Columbia-MKSCC is a strong tier 2 set of programs along with places like UofChicago, Minn, Mayo, UCLA, UCSD etc.
 
i think people like this need to put up some facts. Where are the facts that NYC pathology is in decline? Who are there fellows you know and what has training in NY done to stunt their career growth? Do you really know everything about everything because you seem to spend a lot more time posting on these boards then looking at glass. Have you been to an USCAP lately? Every other talk is given by someone in a NY program of some type. I think you named quite a few outstanding programs in your list but some of them are honestly not strong - UVA for instance. And if you think American graduates are a good measure of how strong a program is (which I don't) I would bet that the major NY resident programs are much higher percent than any of the programs you named. I guess MD Anderson also sucks because it has FMG's for fellows?
If you like big programs in small cities Michigan is a great idea. Also consider Pitt, Wash U, or OSU.

just make sure you interview at any program you like and see that it feels good and that they see a lot of material.

Jeeze don't be hatin' homey. Of course MSKCC called in 24 hours...you just rock that hard.
 
there is very little real "facts" to compare residency programs, if there was you wouldnt have debates like this, it would simply be known and understood.

By in decline, I refer to the fact that there was a definite halcyon period in the 70s and 80s for NYC pathology, both in terms of training and research. With the increased managed care penetration, declining government reimbursements and decreasing physician compensation some urban areas took a very early hit. Combined with the fact overall NYC had a poor reputation for decades with crime and standard of living before it got relatively cleaned up, which then only spurred massive cost of living price increases.

The path faculty in NYC is generally (but of course not exclusively) one of 2 types: either a reminent of the glory days and fast approaching retirement OR FMGs. When I applied to residencies wayyy back in the day, nearly all NYC path residency slots were filled by FMGs, which then further dissuaded solid out of town AMGs and even faculty from coming into the mix.

NYC became a sort of academic Salton Sea if you will by the mid to late 90s: not much coming in except run off, and the bad stuff there became to concentrate in higher quantities.

By the late 90s, Cornell/Columbia had essentially been nixed off the list of top residencies by residency directors/deans at top 20 med schools due to a few factors: unlike say Ortho or Plastics, there was very little competition for path residencies so most if not all solid applicants from even the top 30-40 or so American medical schools could be crowded into a handful of the highest tier programs. Primary care was still very much in vogue, so although sending an internist to NY-Pres Hospital was a feather in the cap of a dean, they could shoot alot higher in path and did.

I remember vividly sitting down with a PD at my med school and him crossing off Cornell, Columbia, UofChicago and Yale off my handwritten list (which was stained with fried food and beer from carrying it around for weeks and working on it in odd places..).

PS-I seriously doubt NYC can change on its current course without MD salaries quadrupling or the cost of living dropping by 75%, neither of which is happening. I just cant see the city being competitive with Iowa, Arkansas, St Louis or other super low cost of living areas that are now sporting massive endowments and willingness to recruit and pay the big bucks (Bruce Smoller comes to mind as a big example).
 
I think your pseudo-cool self image as a beer guzzling grease eating superior American genius being is pretty delusional and sad. I think its noteworthy that you applied and went through residency so long ago and that you don't really know whats happening these days.

The rest of your comments are too racist to address. :love:
 
for those actually looking for information on programs. these are the facts (and yes there are FACTS) that you should at least consider when selecting a program.

1) what is the volume of sugical pathology specimens seen
2) how many attendings are there in the department
3) how many of the attedending did sub-specialty fellowship training in thier field of interest.
4) how productive are the faculty, fellows and residents in terms of yearly publications
5) does the program tend to fill its own fellowships with inside people (sometime a sign that the programs believes its own residents are well trained and that the resdient has had good experinces while training there)
6) are there any faculty who receive large numbers of consults. how may attendings? This is really important because you will get to see the usual stuff often but this is the best way to see lots of rare stuff. If there are faculty with consults is there a mechanism for you to be exposed to them?
 
nycsicko said:
The rest of your comments are too racist to address. :love:
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WTF are you talking about...now you have merely become a sad shrill voice in defense of your ideas, failing utterly to change opinion and merely satifisied to sling virtual mud at a phantom opponent. From this it sounds as if you might be one of those NYC FMGs, which I most certainly havent slighted with my postings above but anyway you have a huge chip on your shoulder as a result. That chip can make it very hard to sign out cases consistently or admit you made an honest mistake. Ive seen it many times before...

I think your pseudo-cool self image as a beer guzzling grease eating superior American genius being is pretty delusional and sad.
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To play profiler: my guess is you are foreign born FMG living in NYC because of the high number of those like you. Not so secretly tho, you depise America and most Americans, partly out of jealously and self doubt, partly from being excluded and having to look at rich Americans enjoying martinis while shooting you dirty looks through the windows of fine NYC restaurants. You came for the American dream and now realize its not as easy as picking up gold nuggets off the streets of El Dorado when imagined it in your childhood. Your inner insecurities really came out in that post, but I want to be the first to tell you: its okay to cry.
 
I don't pretend to know the rankings of path programs, nor do I care much, but I can say that Columbia, Cornell and Mt. Sinai are predominantly AMG, with very few FMGs mixed in. Can't say anything about the rest of the NYC programs.
 
And in a shocking turn of events, those in New York like it, and those in Boston and LA hate it...
 
wow - you are way sicker than I thought and obviously racist. You are also obviosly not at UCLA or you would be under the direction of a very capable
'FMG'. Get over yourself dude. I am so glad there are so few people in this feild like you.

I will say you could not be more wrong in your 'profile'. I hope your skills on glass are a lot better for your patient's sake.

If anyone actually has any interest in my input just email me directly. I will no longer post when there are people like this around. I mean its not just me right?
 
nycsicko said:
I think you named quite a few outstanding programs in your list but some of them are honestly not strong - UVA for instance.
Click to expand...

Maybe you ought to take some of your own advice. You accuse LADOC of not knowing what he's talking about and then you make some ridiculously ignorant statement.

While I don't agree with his views on FMGs, LADOC's comments on NYC pathology reflect the national view. Whether fair or not, the programs in NYC are not viewed in a particularly favorable light. However, I'm sure training at those programs won't hold you back, especially within NYC.
 
ok i'll let all my attendings know to stop giving those international lectures and stop writing all those silly books that no one west of New Jersey ever reads. Thanks you all for putting silly me in my silly ny place which is really more like a sewer than a place anyway.

this is intended to be an information forum and not a place to make yourself feel better about you chosen path. Thank you for you attention Doctors. And thanks for all you evidence of your claims. This is what is sounds like when a small penis cries. Adios
 
CameronFrye said:
Maybe you ought to take some of your own advice. You accuse LADOC of not knowing what he's talking about and then you make some ridiculously ignorant statement.

While I don't agree with his views on FMGs, LADOC's comments on NYC pathology reflect the national view. Whether fair or not, the programs in NYC are not viewed in a particularly favorable light. However, I'm sure training at those programs won't hold you back, especially within NYC.
Click to expand...

my point is not that we should not comment on programs but to try to use CRITERIA. Maybe that's a stupid NYC thing. Crazy! Its different to say UVA doesn't stand with Emory etc etc etc than to say that EVERY NYC program is a dump.
And don't worry about emailing me directly its more productive than this stuff anyway. Ok i said I wouldnt post any more....now i mean it. Good luck everyone (even you sub-human FMG's)
 
nycsicko said:
my point is not that we should not comment on programs but to try to use CRITERIA. Maybe that's a stupid NYC thing. Crazy! Its different to say UVA doesn't stand with Emory etc etc etc than to say that EVERY NYC program is a dump.
And don't worry about emailing me directly its more productive than this stuff anyway. Ok i said I wouldnt post any more....now i mean it. Good luck everyone (even you sub-human FMG's)
Click to expand...

Ok, so let's hear you break down some programs with your criteria. I agree that Emory is a great program, but any objective criteria-based analysis would rank UVA right with them. The biggest difference in the two programs is location. Would you prefer to live in a big city or a college town?
 
These kind of threads always seem to go in the same direction :rolleyes:

These conversations are best reserved for the bar over many drinks.

Perhaps, a steel-cage match or roshambo tournament to settle it at USCAP?
 
nycsicko said:
Good luck everyone (even you sub-human FMG's)
Click to expand...

wow, you are a bit touchy aint you. LOL sub-human tho is funny, Im picturing these stacked cages of NYC path residents and attendings throwing dog treats thru the bars each time they finish a tray of slides.

NYC isnt bad, I was posting in jest FFS.

Have fun, dont get bitten by the sub-humans! they have very dirty mouths I hear.
 
nycsicko said:
this is intended to be an information forum and not a place to make yourself feel better about you chosen path.
Click to expand...

Indeed it is. It's also a diversionary place for amusement. And you can't have it both ways - criticizing places or viewpoints you don't like but refusing to accept criticism of your own viewpoints. Don't forget - your first post on here was (seemingly) to register and slam Cornell with a lot of unsubstantiated inflammatory claims, so don't play dumb and say you're not contributing to the atmosphere that you are decrying. I think that's why people are bothered by what you're saying.

Your only response to the criticism has basically been about how attendings at "NYC programs" (except, obviously, for Cornell) publish half the abstracts at USCAP and write textbook chapters. OK. That isn't true. The MSKCC attendings are prolific to be sure, and other departments have textbook authors here and there just like every other major department around the country. To be honest, I saw very few abstracts from NYC programs that were not MSKCC or Cornell with/without MSKCC at USCAP. But yes, many of the other programs will also train you well, and as every applicant's situation and priorities are different, may be the best place to train for many people. But let's be honest - people from NY tend to inflate everything in NY just because it's there (i.e. it HAS to be good just because).

Most people are pretty good judges of their own needs and desires, and if these programs are considerations for their training, they need to go and look for themselves. As you and others have pointed out, NYC has many path programs with strong histories, large specimen volumes, and experienced attendings, all things that are key to training.
 
yaah said:
they need to go and look for themselves.
Click to expand...

This is the most important point. Everyone needs to check out these places for themself. Don't blindly take the advice of a bunch of strangers on an internet message board.
 
I want a detailed report on the sub-humans, does Cornell/Columbia have underground housing to accomodate them? I know their eyes are sensitive to the light, Im sure they have the lightsource on their scopes turned all the way down. Do they get to munch on the excess BKA specimens if they behave? Im picturing C.H.U.D.'s or the Hills Have Eyese but in scrubs.
 
LADoc00 said:
I want a detailed report on the sub-humans, does Cornell/Columbia have underground housing to accomodate them? I know their eyes are sensitive to the light, Im sure they have the lightsource on their scopes turned all the way down. Do they get to munch on the excess BKA specimens if they behave? Im picturing C.H.U.D.'s or the Hills Have Eyese but in scrubs.
Click to expand...

k
 
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