Suggestion of reasonable NYC programs

[b&ierstiefel]

As the Guinness commercials say...BRILLIANT!

Seriously dude, you've done all you can, especially with your initial post (welcome back) to put first hand knowledge information of Cornell out there.

GOBBLES!

Happy T-giving. I want mah turkey leg!

http://www.planearium2.de/bilder/wallpaper-char-timmy-1024.jpg


Hey look everybody it’s Timmy, everyone’s favorite physically challenged Cornell pathology alum who is eveidently delusion for thinking “CornHell” is a good program.

TTTTTTIIIIIMMMMMMMMAAAAAHHHHHHH……..grrrabagrrrabagrrraba….TTTTTTIIIIIIMMMMAAAAHHHHHHHHH.
*Enter brougham* (timmy’s alter ego)….”be quite Timmy I am trying to have an adult conversation here”.

…..timmmeh

That’s much better Timmy….thank you. I think I have figured out the true identity of Nycsicko. He’s not in medicine at all…you see, everytime I post I feel like I have entered the “No spin zone” and we are in New York after all, home of Foxnews. Therefore, I must apologize to Nycsicko for not recognizing him earlier (because he’s famous). It’s Papa Bear (Bill O’Reilly)…[brougham and timmy bow to show respect]. He must be mad because he thinks I bloviate and he wants me to keep my comments pithy. Don’t worry Papa Bear I promise I won’t opine any longer…

TTTTTIIIIMMMMMAAAAHHHHH…grrrabagrraba….timmeh?!?

What’s that Timmy?

Grrrabagrraba….timmmmmeeehhh…

Oh your right Timmy, how could I have been so stupid! Timmy just pointed out to me that he can’t be Papa Bear, his vocabulary isn’t good enough.

Then he must be that other uber famous Foxnews superstar from Fox and Friends…Brown Haired guy that’s not Steve Doocy. He only communicates with a series of grunts and high fives.

TIMMY!!!…grrrabrraba…

Ooopppsss, my apologies for the slander, BLACK haired guy that’s not Steve Doocy. Thanks again Timmy. You have once again proven yourself the smarter of the two of us. Well, it's surely clear, who ever he is, he certainly has a firm grasp on the concept of "truthiness". Now, on with the show…


I posted some comments earlier in this thread (see my very, very long diatribe above) in response to what I though was unproductive, inaccurate, unprofessional posts about the pathology program at Cornell. The perpetrator was Nysicko who after reading my post decided to persist in her/his attacks (rather than promoting and saying positive things about his own program, he/she was given the opportunity to comment and CHOSE to attack).

Now I found this rather disappointing. One of the goal of my post was to try and smooth the relationship between the programs in NYC (especially between the residents of these programs, most of whom are rather reasonable people in my experience) as there seems to be a lot of animosity flying around. To that end, I seemed to have failed…miserably (okay maybe Nycsicko deserves SOME credit for this failure). The roots of this animosity have never been completely clear to me.

Anyway, the main point of my post—or the “theme” of my post was basically that there are good people at almost every single program in the country and it simply is unprofessional to attack programs with insulting overtones. Furthermore, an excellent program will NOT make up for hard work and lot’s of self study. Again to quote Yaah, “You make your own prestige”.

I, by absolutely no means, think Cornell (where I did my residency) is perfect. I would be lying if I said that there where not days during my residency when I absolutely hated my job, the place I worked and some of the politics I experienced during my training. I definitely had my share of bad days. However, in talking to people from other pathology programs (this includes programs around the country , not just in NYC) I think most people have at least some “rough patches” during residency. This is, I think, normal. I would also—like Nycsicko suggested above--be very, very wary of anyone or any program that doesn’t acknowledge its shortcomings.

At the end of the day, I am glad I did my residency at Cornell and stand by all of the statements I have made in this thread. There are some wonderful people there (both professional and personally) and the quality and overall character of the residents is top notch. I recommend the program, especially if you want/ need to be in NYC.

One more tidbit. I don’t think anyone should be afraid to be honest about their interview experiences regarding specific programs…though I understand why people might be concerned that a bad comment may come back to bite them. That’s why people like Nycsicko try an remain anonymous and deny there own clear affiliation to a program that they seem so obviously, and almost abnormally, infatuated with….because on some level this person realizes they are spewing garbage. I think the key is to be diplomatic with your posts.

When you post try to think about what you would say if you were not anonymous…I think this is the best way to reign in one’s comments as people say VASTLY different things when they have to say it to someone’s face or in a non-anonymous format. Try not to take pot-shots or be too sarcastic/ condescending with your posts. As an ex-Cornell resident, I can take critiques of my program when they are done in a professional way. My belief that Cornell is a strong program (I never said it was “the best” Nycsicko, did you even read my post?!?!) will not waiver even in the face of such passionate, albeit inaccurate, post to the contrary such as some of those above. That doesn’t mean I won’t disagree with you if you say something about Cornell that is either subjective or that I think is not correct, however. I am also sure that there ARE some people at some programs that will be vindictive (so be careful). I think Yaah’s idea (see the thread on the topic) of posting through him is an excellent idea if you are at all concerned about possible repercussions stemming from program reviews.

Finally, I would like to thank Nycsicko on behalf of “CornHell” as he has provided us with a great recruitment slogan for this year…”come to cornHell, our residents are absolutely nothing like Nycsicko………………and we have housing”.

That’s all I have to say. Have a great Thanksgiving!

Love,
TTTTTTTIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMMAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!! and Gobbles


http://www.macscreensavers.com/images/screen_shots/timmy_shot.gif

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[CornellDerm]

I have to first say thank you to everyone posting under this thread for providing me with so much entertainment tonight. I really should log in more often when I am not enjoying the fruits of NYC!

Of course I know Cornell much better than most of you (with the exception of one of my senior residents who has been defending the turf, rightfully so). Therefore, I do not feel compelled nor energetic enough tonight to address all the misinformation posted.

In fact, I think it is silly to continue to argue about the merit of Cornell or other NYC programs. What a waste of space! I presume that most of the ill-willed souls on this website were either (a) not accepted into our program, thankfully so or (b) didn't have what it takes to make it in the big apple. Get over it!

I will say this:

I had doubts, too, about choosing Cornell over MGH and Hopkins, having graduated from an Ivy League university and at the top of my med school class. Many people told me I was wasting my "AOA" status on pathology in the first place. As a 4th year resident, however, I can honestly say that I have no regrets. I got the dermpath fellowship of my choice and have had an amazing 4 years in NYC and was well trained at Cornell. In fact, I am looking forward to smoking "NYCSicko" et al. and whoever else is up for the challenge on the boards next year. You really have no chance, so you better start studying and not spend so much time on this website. You honestly have no idea whom you're up against!

Nonetheless, if you need to be "spoon-fed" pathology bite-by-bite like an infant getting fed applesauce, then you should perhaps go to one of the so callled "top-tier programs." Chances are, unfortunately for you, that you won't get in anyway, if that is your dependency.

Enfin. Bonne chance a tous qui ont essaye si dur de defamer Cornell! Peut-etre que vous devrez depenser peu de temps a ecrire a ce website, et plus de temps a etudier! je suis sur que vous en auriez besoin mes petits enfants!

 

[nycsicko]

I have to first say thank you to everyone posting under this thread for providing me with so much entertainment tonight. I really should log in more often when I am not enjoying the fruits of NYC!

Of course I know Cornell much better than most of you (with the exception of one of my senior residents who has been defending the turf, rightfully so). Therefore, I do not feel compelled nor energetic enough tonight to address all the misinformation posted.

In fact, I think it is silly to continue to argue about the merit of Cornell or other NYC programs. What a waste of space! I presume that most of the ill-willed souls on this website were either (a) not accepted into our program, thankfully so or (b) didn't have what it takes to make it in the big apple. Get over it!

I will say this:

I had doubts, too, about choosing Cornell over MGH and Hopkins, having graduated from an Ivy League university and at the top of my med school class. Many people told me I was wasting my "AOA" status on pathology in the first place. As a 4th year resident, however, I can honestly say that I have no regrets. I got the dermpath fellowship of my choice and have had an amazing 4 years in NYC and was well trained at Cornell. In fact, I am looking forward to smoking "NYCSicko" et al. and whoever else is up for the challenge on the boards next year. You really have no chance, so you better start studying and not spend so much time on this website. You honestly have no idea whom you're up against!

Nonetheless, if you need to be "spoon-fed" pathology bite-by-bite like an infant getting fed applesauce, then you should perhaps go to one of the so callled "top-tier programs." Chances are, unfortunately for you, that you won't get in anyway, if that is your dependency.

Enfin. Bonne chance a tous qui ont essaye si dur de defamer Cornell! Peut-etre que vous devrez depenser peu de temps a ecrire a ce website, et plus de temps a etudier! je suis sur que vous en auriez besoin mes petits enfants!

umm, is it just me or is that the most arrogant posting ever? I KNOW not everyone at Cornell is like that but its a little scary that even some Cornell people are like that. Sorry to tell you that the Boards are pass-fail so you will never know by how many points you 'smoked' me. Who says things like that??? The snotty French tirade was a winning touch. En garde!

I think the Cornell posters sound nice enough but none have commented on the cornell weaknesses. They just imply that they are the same program as MSKCC (which they are not) so its ok not to have a lung, head and neck, liver, CV, soft tissue, bone etc pathologist. Obviously you need to do a lot of self directed learning in pathology but you won't do that if you have never seen a specimen.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

umm, is it just me or is that the most arrogant posting ever? I KNOW not everyone at Cornell is like that but its a little scary that even some Cornell people are like that. Sorry to tell you that the Boards are pass-fail so you will never know by how many points you 'smoked' me. Who says things like that??? The snotty French tirade was a winning touch. En garde!

It's not just you.

 

[nycsicko]

It's not just you.

i didnt't think so. I think that must be a fake trying to make Cornell sound like a bunch of snobs. "you honestly have no idea whom you are up against"? no one could say something like that and mean it. Could they?

 

[yaah]

I don't think I have a chance on the boards either. I didn't go to the Ivy League for undergrad either. I begged and begged but they wouldn't let me in. No, wait. I didn't even apply. Whoops.

Anyway. GOBBLES

 

[Tiki]

I have to say that after visiting 3 out of 4 of the NYC programs I applied too, as well as a few in Boston, I've been the most impressed with NYU. FMGs or not, they really are putting alot of money into making that program something. I don't know if I'll rank it at the top (still have to go on 9 more interviews and the cost of living is insane) but I was pleasantly surprised by them.

Plus, their PD is super nice.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I don't think I have a chance on the boards either. I didn't go to the Ivy League for undergrad either. I begged and begged but they wouldn't let me in. No, wait. I didn't even apply. Whoops.

Anyway. GOBBLES

Heh...me neither...close but no cigar. I threw them money, performed sexual favors, ran naked on the streets, stuffed a whole bag of cheetos in my mouth at once...no dice, no love.

I feel like I'm embarking on this journey called life on a short bus. I'm gonna die homeless and penniless and nobody will ever love me.

GOBBLES!

 

[LADoc00]

Damn Im forced to post.....

Anyone who posts they went to an Ivy League school without specifically mentioning it by name went to Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell or Columbia....people from Yale, Princeton and Harvard state the name....what are you hiding?? Tier II Ivy status maybe?

Did you decide on Cornell to have pure Ivy on the old resume??

 

[nycsicko]

Damn Im forced to post.....

Anyone who posts they went to an Ivy League school without specifically mentioning it by name went to Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell or Columbia....people from Yale, Princeton and Harvard state the name....what are you hiding?? Tier II Ivy status maybe?

Did you decide on Cornell to have pure Ivy on the old resume??

my money
1) Cornell undergrad 2) Cornell Med 3) Cornell residency 4)Harvard dermpath 5) highest board scores EVER!

 

[Thaitanium]

man, you guys are all full of yourselves.

 

[mlw03]

man, you guys are all full of yourselves.

this is the best reponse i've seen in this thread in the last 5 days

 

[Bosque]

I graduated this year AP/CP from Cornell. I sometimes browse this forum on downtime, but I’ve never felt the need to post anything before. But when someone at my current institution tipped me off to this thread, I had to check it out. I’m really kind of surprised by all this. Since I’m coming to this whole debate new, here’s my take on what’s happened so far:

Someone posted a reasonable and open-ended inquiry about New York programs. There followed a discussion of the various options and parking in the Bronx. NYCsicko then posted a series of accusations against Cornell. These have been largely, I think, refuted by my co-resident Brougham. NYCsicko has admitted that he’s/she's been posting these things without really knowing what is going on at Cornell (i.e., “I will freely admit I am not sure about a few things”), suggesting that he/she has some ulterior motive. The bottom line, as far as I can tell, is that the sum total of NYCsicko’s problem is that Cornell does not “have” a soft tissue pathologist, head and neck pathologist, etc. Having just trained at Cornell, I can tell you that I was taught these subjects in a complete and thorough manner. So I suspect what NYCsicko really means is that he hasn’t “heard” of the people teaching these things at Cornell.

This is why I decided to put in my two cents. I don’t really think that any currently training or practicing pathologist would take at face value NYCsicko’s chip-on-the-shoulder gossip and antipathy. But a lot of residency applicants post and lurk here, and I’m worried about the conclusions that they might draw from this thread (again, not about Cornell necessarily, but more generally). Look at it this way: there are a number of superstars in pathology, in every subdiscipline; we can all generate our own lists here. These people are like the Nobel prize winners of our field. Now, when you were applying to college, how seriously did you consider the number of Nobel prize winners at a given university before deciding where to apply and attend? Was it the number one consideration? Was it high on the list? Or were a huge number of other factors more important?

I think the same thinking should apply for residency. Notice that NYCsicko doesn’t say that Cornell grads are poorly trained, or unhappy, or that they have trouble getting fellowships or passing boards. He is exclusively concerned with the “names” (the “Nobel prize winners”). He doesn’t say anything about the relationship among the residents, the teaching environment, the actual quality of the teaching, the institutional support for research, etc. Cornell has more than its share of big names, but it also excels in these other aspects that make a tremendous difference in training.

Now, let’s say you want to be a soft tissue pathologist, and you’re considering Emory and Cornell. All else being equal, obviously Emory would go higher on your rank list. I would argue that the same equation would apply in Cornell’s favor if you’re considering hemepath. I’d also recommend Cornell over, say, Columbia if you intend to take at all seriously clinical pathology training. But the larger point I’m trying to make is that you are going to be the best pathologist when you train where you find the best “fit” – and that will vary by the individual and will encompass an enormous number of factors, not just whether some junior resident in NY has “heard” of the person teaching you head and neck pathology.

Best of luck to all the applicants this year.

 

[mlw03]

bosque, thanks for your thoughts. as an applicant this year, i can assure you that i would not have been dissuaded from applying to a program based on the comments i've read in this thread. your points about going to a particular program if they have a well-known person in that subspecialty are good ones. but in the absence of such a desire, fit is what it's about.

as a general comment, let me say thank you to all residents who post and share info about their program. it really does help us applicants. that said, i think most of us realize the best thing is still to go see a place we're really interested in with our own eyes, but resident comments certainly help us decide which places to even begin applying to sometimes.

 

[sohsie]

umm, is it just me or is that the most arrogant posting ever? I KNOW not everyone at Cornell is like that but its a little scary that even some Cornell people are like that. Sorry to tell you that the Boards are pass-fail so you will never know by how many points you 'smoked' me. Who says things like that??? The snotty French tirade was a winning touch. En garde!

I think the Cornell posters sound nice enough but none have commented on the cornell weaknesses. They just imply that they are the same program as MSKCC (which they are not) so its ok not to have a lung, head and neck, liver, CV, soft tissue, bone etc pathologist. Obviously you need to do a lot of self directed learning in pathology but you won't do that if you have never seen a specimen.

Its not just you. I was rolling on the floor laughing at the "smoke you on the boards" posting

I think its good that people from Cornell are coming onto the boards promoting their program. However, CornellDerm is an arrogant @$$.

 

[nycsicko]

Its not just you. I was rolling on the floor laughing at the "smoke you on the boards" posting

I think its good that people from Cornell are coming onto the boards promoting their program. However, CornellDerm is an arrogant @$$.

i swear its so over the top I find it hard to believe a real person wrote that.

my favorite part was you have no idea who you are dealing with . makes a great die hard 8 line.

 

[Brougham]

Let me begin with some very serious and unfortunate business. CornellDerm, WTF was that?!? I couldn't even begin to defend your last post, nor would I want to do so. That was WAY over the top, especially in the context of what I am hoping to accomplish here. Confidence is good, arrogance is bad m'kay. So, I now—regrettably—must withdraw the "CornHell" recruitment slogan I suggested previously and modify another statement I made in my first post in this thread. Here it goes….I know MANY, MANY attendings, fellows, and residents at Cornell and Columbia—and I can assure everyone out there that CornellDerm (Cornell, duh) and Nycsicko (Columbia, even if he/she denies it) DO NOT represent the character or maturity level of the typical Cornell or Columbia graduate/trainee/other. Or the character and maturity level of people from any other NYC pathology program for that matter.

CornellDerm please give me a call--or if your out of town—I'll see you on Monday at grand rounds [it should be a good one], we can discuss this over drinks if you would like. Until then, I ask you to please REFRAIN FROM POSTING ON THIS SITE.

Now for some (hopefully) comic relief……

...............queue music…..dunt..dunt…dah….. dunt..dunt….dah…..dunt..dunt…dah….. dunt..dunt….dah……..EYE OF THE TIGER……..dunt..dunt…dah….. dunt..dunt….dah…..EYE OF THE TIGER…….dunt..dunt….dah….dunt..dunt….dah….EEEEYYYYEEEE OOOFFF THE TIIIIGGGER……..

.....DING*A bell rings off in the distance*….ROUND TWO…..


Hey look who's back everybody it's the Cornell Pathology "Dynamic Duo"—TIMMMMAH and Brougham….

http://www.planearium2.de/bilder/wallpaper-char-timmy-1024.jpg

Grrrababgrraba….TTTTTTIIIIIIIMMMMMMAHHHHH!!!!

Alright Timmy, where were we?

….timmeh….?

Oh but of course, we were generating our differential for the identity of the nefarious SDN villain Nycsicko. Who was on our list again timmy?

Grgraaababgrraba…timmy…….timmmeeeeehhhhh…..grrrrabbbagrr…..TIMMMMMAAAAHHHHHHH…

That's right, now I remember, what would I do with out you Timmy. Our list consisted of an anonymous Columbia resident, Papa Bear (Bill O'reilly), Brown Haired guy that's not….

TTTTTTIIIIIIIMMMMMMAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Oh geez, I did it again, sorry BLACK haired guy that's not Steve Doocy. Is that all we've got timmy? I could of sworn there were more?

Grrrrababag….timmeh…

That's right! I forgot that one. LaDOC suggested one, Jimmy. Though, I don't know he's/ she's not funny enough, or "Leno-esque" if you will, to be Jimmeh. But, will keep him on the list just in case, I suppose one can always hope…..

Now back to the show…same BA (T or D?) time, same BA (T or D?) channel…..

I am really getting sick of this, seriously. Do you actually read the posts I write or do you just "FEEL" them a la Stephen Colbert? You have repeatedly missed (or ignored) several important points in my previous posts. Probably the most important point you likely CHOSE to overlook in my last post was the one about promoting your own excellent training program via positive and honest posts (which shouldn't be hard since your at a good program) rather than promoting your program by insulting institutions and deriding the shortcomings of other programs. These two styles of discussing your program can be, in fact, mutually exclusive. In case that's not clear enough for you, what I mean is that it is very, very possible and a lot more productive to say nice things about YOUR OWN PROGRAM, a program you sooo obviously care about (which is a good thing, after all) then to say negative, mean-spirited things about other very good programs. I whole heartedly believe that if you had done that from the beginning I wouldn't be @*%$ sitting here writing this right now.

Just in case you try and back peddle now, I will refer you, to the first page of this thread BEFORE I started posting (the timing and sequence of comments here is very important to keep in mind). Look at your comments in those posts again. THINK about them…..now before I continue, I will give you credit, your posts got progressively less inflammatory after I started posting…I appreciate that. I also agree with you often repeated advice to applicants--GO SEE "CORNHELL"YOURSELF. However, lets get back on topic. Lets look at a post made AFTER I started posting in which you QUOTE YAAH—who is NOT a resident in NYC, NOT a resident at "CornHell" and who by his own (repeated) admission is not a fan of NYC (which is fine with me). He wrote in a very early post in this thread…

"In my book, Cornell has probably become the "most prestigious" NYC program. Over the past few years they have hired a number of faculty who are renowned in their field. They had some difficulties a few years ago with retaining people but that seems to have passed. A lot of people really want to live in NYC and thus NYC programs become more attractive. If you don't want to live in NYC, going to one of these programs becomes much less attractive, and thus the city (and not the program) becomes the determining factor more than most other programs in other cities".-YAAH

…This post obviously bothered you because you site it as "starting it". Starting what exactly? Someone from a top notch program, in a far off state happens to be of the opinion that Cornell is pretty good and that's a reason for you to go ape s!!t? Are you out of your f!!!!!!g mind? Why not respond with all the great things about Columbia of which you have actually only briefly and barely scratched the surface? As the saying goes "you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar". Don't believe me? How ‘bout using your search tool for old posts by LaDOC and Bierstiefel (though the latter has gone by many a name—Angrytesticle and Andy Milanokis are two I can remember). They have said less than favorable things about Cornell in the past (no hard feelings here guys) and now look at their comments. Not necessilary positive per se but at the very least "fair and balanced"….yes, another Foxnews reference.

I suppose a response you might give is "I was joking, I was being sarcastic… blahblahblah"…dude, common you were not just joking. Again, I would refer you to the posts by NON-"CornHell" affiliated people (like LaDoc, Raider and Sinaility) who without even being connected with either of our programs (at least to my knowledge) picked up on the palpable animosity of your posts. While you are not, in my opinion, very capable of conveying humor via your posts you are a frickin' ninja master at conveying pure hatred. Again, I am not sure at the origin of this hatred…are you? If so please tell me so we can discuss it RIGHT NOW.

Okay, now for another addition of the FACTS, this time to address your very first post FOLLOWING my "very, very long diatribe post"…

1). "…Cornell and Sloan Kettering GI fellowships were never really joined."
I know where you got this and your wrong. I have already done one GI rotation this year and I assure you they are joined. Because of certain private issues, which I will not discuss here, it is true that the two fellows have not officially "swapped" yet this year. But I have not heard ANY SUGGESTIONS or RUMORS that the combining of the programs is "off". The GI fellows for next year have already been selected and in speaking with them on a very regular basis they have given me NO indication that your statement has any validity. It is true that there has been an administrative snafu this year that will hopefully be rectified (no pun intended, I am talking about GI after all) soon.

2). "Does Dr. Rubin sign out GU?"
Yes, ‘nough said.

3.) "Its also my understanding that the MSKCC rotations are no longer available".
Not true. There are three "CornHell" residents coming to MSKCC to do elective rotations this year.

4.) "I have not met or heard Dr. Scognamiglio, she must be new. Where did she train?" and "There is still no ……..head and neck pathologist there."
She trained at "CornHell" I now in your eyes that makes her "inferior" but she also spent three months at MSKCC as an acting fellow and three months with Dr. Livolsi (a Columbia residency grad) at Penn. I suppose an argument you could make is--she didn't do a fellowship in head & neck—to which I would quote YOU from the very same post I pulled the quotes above as saying…" YES you can still be a rockin' GU pathologist (or any kind of specialist) and not have done a fellowship…". I agree with this last quote of yours and it applies to Dr. Scognamiglio…she rocks the s!!t!!! Regardless of whether you have "heard" of her or "met" her I assure you she does exist and she's great.

5.) "…no lung…pathologist".
Cornell is not completely sub specialized and so some things are signed out by "general" surgical pathologists. Lung is one of these areas. But lets discuss this. It is true, there is no dedicated "lung/thoracic" pathologist at "CornHell" (OMG did I just actual admit a "weakness"…then let me try to turn it into a strength…please read [or feel] on). Lets take a poll, how many of you out there that are either senior residents, fellows or attendings think you could "handle" the majority of neoplastic lung cases? My guess, and this is just a guess, that if there is anyone actually reading this that falls into any of the categories I mentioned that most of them just raised their hand. If I asked the same question about routine medical lung cases slightly fewer people might raise their hands but I would wager that many people can handle UIP, NSIP, LIP, DIP, hypersensitivity pneunmonitis, etc, etc. For the really strange cases, the "CornHell" residents take the cases to Dr. Travis at MSKCC, sit down at the scope, AND GET TAUGHT by a WORLD expert in medical lung disease. This was your response last time I dare mention "CornHell" and MSKCC in the same breath…" Bringing cases to MSKCC when your in house attendings can't handle it doesn't count. Sorry (sad face)". This quote makes you sound like your about twelve. If you can manage to explain to me the difference between someone teaching you when you're in a building on the west side of York Ave. vs. the east side of York Ave. I'd like to here it. Do you think the residents that take these cases over just sit there in silence as the attending looks at the slide, says absolutely nothing, writes down his/her diagnosis, seals it in an envelope and then only gives it back if the "CornHell" resident promises not to peak inside? Or is it more likely that significant teaching occurs that often includes discussion of a differential, relevant clinical/radiological/ epidemiological factors and sometimes even review of other slides from some pretty impressive pertinent study sets related to whatever is being discussed? Hhhhhmmmmm, methinks the latter.

The last quote (especially this part…" your in house attendings can't handle it…") of Nycsicko that I sited also brings up an impromtu teaching point that most people at the senior resident level and above already know. That is that you SHOULD NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER be ashamed or embarrassed for showing a case—no matter how simple it may seem--to another pathologist if your are AT ALL uncomfortable with your diagnosis. This comment is the sort that falls into the category of "penis reference" that I referred to in my first post in this thread. Last time I checked Nycsicko, you and I were pathologists (not porn stars) and in the business of PATIENT CARE. THIS IS NOT A COMPETION THIS IS PEOPLES LIVES AND YOU BETTER BE DAMN SURE EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU MAKE A DIAGNOSIS. I think you would be wise to remember that (It took me a while to appreciate this, I am sure you would've figured it out eventually as well. I sincerely hope someone has already told you this)

6.) "…No liver….pathologist".
I have already quoted you as saying you don't need to do a fellowship in an area to be "rockin'", in said area. In case you forgot, the liver is part of the GI tract. Dr. Yantiss is quite capable of signing out liver. As is Dr. Beneck (who is board certified in pedi path by the way) and she does sign out livers…imagine that. Both of these individuals are also quite capable of teaching the basics of liver pathology (medical and neoplastic) and do so whenever a case comes to sign out (which is pretty much everyday by the way). Last time I checked we were discussing RESIDENCY, not FELLOWSHIP, residency is where you learn BASICS, fellowship is where you begin to become an "EXPERT". But, I guess, I have to grovel and run away with my tail between my legs as "CornHell" does not have a "Liver Pathologist".

7.) "…No cardiovascular pathologist….". Again, I am SO ashamed we don't have a board certified "Cardiovascular pathologist"…wait, there is no such thing, maybe I am not ashamed. This is as good of place as any to concede another point (a retort is coming of course) and that is "CornHell" DOESN'T DO ANY CARDIAC OR LUNG TRANSPLANTS (just kidney), so for any pathology applicants out there that have already decided that they want to do specifically transplant pathology "CornHELL" is probably not the right place for you. Do not fret, however, there are plenty of very good residency programs that do see these types of specimens and you should look into those programs if this is your specific interest.

Back to hearts (of course this doesn't include explants). We, of course see autopsy hearts—lots of bread and butter stuff (amyloid, AMI, occasional cardiomyopathies, lots of hypertensive cardiovascular disease, etc.). Additionally, at least twice during my residency (maybe three times, I can't remember specifically) a certain very well know, extremely nice, HUMBLE, "cardiovascular pathologist" from a certain institution located on the far upper west side of NYC came and gave lectures (specifically for the "CornHell" residents) about various aspects of cardiovascular pathology. I remember the lectures well, I took notes. I used the notes to study for my boards. I'll give you one guess, Nycsicko, as to how many cardiac/lung/ renal transplant questions appeared on my boards this past June? ..................................................... ........................... ...................................................... .............................................................. I'll assume by your silence that your guessing "0". Congratulations! That's the right answer. Of course, the boards change from year to year so there could very well be questions about heart/lung/renal transplants on future versions of the boards. I also want to state, that in no way do I mean to disparage transplant pathology as a discipline. It's not my interest but it is INTERESTING. As I commented already, if you want to do transplant pathology "CornHell" is probably not the place for you.

One other thing I'll add about hearts. Dr. Beneck has an AMAZING collection of gross heart specimens from both pediatric and adult patients with congenital heart disease. Every year she gives a conference (some times she does it twice a year I think) where the residents get to hold the hearts and examine them. This is a GREAT conference and after repeating it at least 4 times I think I have a handle on the subject….or at least a handle on the basics. Dr Beneck also gives several excellent pedi path lectures each year but what Nycsicko writes about pedipath at "CornHell" is almost accurate (the in house specimen volume of such cases is pretty small).

Finally, this last part I guess I'll put under the heading of OPINION. Regarding your repeated attempts to dissected out MSKCC and "CornHell" I never said that MSKCC and Cornell attendings are one in the same. Quite the contrary, in my post I listed the affiliation of the attendings I mentioned as either MSKCC or "CornHell" whenever I thought it might be ambiguous to people. Here is my point about the relationship between "CornHell" and MSKCC revisited. Remember, before I proceed I say this as an ex-"CornHell" resident and a current MSKCC fellow (I believe that makes me qualified to put my experiences out there, what are your credentials again Nycsicko? Oh yeah, I forgot you want to remain anonymous).

In the four years I spent at "CornHell" I learned a lot of pathology from "CornHell" attendings (and other residents and fellows) AND from MANY MSKCC attendings (and fellows). These two groups of people ARE NOT THE SAME, they are clearly TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS of people that I have A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF RESPECT FOR BOTH. Are you going to try and tell me that I imagined the last four years of my life????? Your comments are pathetic for the most part and completely unnecessary. If you persist in making these types of comments know that all that you are doing is continuing to hurt the reputation of your own program more than you are hurting anyone else. I am telling you this to try and help you and, I am really starting to sound like a broken record, the very excellent program at which you train.

I know that Thanksgiving is over, and I hope you had a good one, I will end this post by showing you—once again- the picture of TIMMMAAAHHH and Gobbles that I posted before (you have to click the link to see it). Please look at it carefully. Study it. Pretend it's a cytology image on the RISE or the Boards (i.e. you need to be sure you look at the whole picture because the key findings are usually off center). I'll even give you a hint, the point is one word. If you still don't get my point ask one of the very intelligent occupants of your Resident's room, they can probably explain it to you. If not, feel free to call me in the Fellow's room at MSKCC, ask for Brougham—I think even you have probably figured out who I am at this point and I'd be happy to discuss it with you. Take care.

http://www.macscreensavers.com/images/screen_shots/timmy_shot.gif

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Wow, I made it through Brougham's entire post...probably because it's after Thanksgiving, I'm at work, and there are all but just two consults for me to look at.

So before I head out for a long leisurely lunch break, I wanted to make two brief, probably trivial, points given what's already been said. The first one was something I meant to post earlier but just simply forgot to given the entertainment value of this thread in general.

1) RE: Mark Rubin...he signed out cases on the GU service when he was here, prior to his departure to Cornell. Can't be sure if he signs out given his new position (cuz I'm not there), but if I had to make a bet, I would think that he still would be signing out GU.

2) Also wanted to reiterate that there is no shame in showing cases around. For the residents managing the case, of course it sucks, cuz you gotta run around, go to different buildings, make appointments, deal with clinician phone calls as to why it's taking so damn long to sign out a case...and blah blah blah. Sure. But I have no problems with that since it does make for better patient care...it also covers your ass too!

OK...that's it for now. Hope you're recovering from your respective turkey hangovers.

P.S. I almost missed it but I did catch your comment about my prior comments about Cornell. I have to admit that I'm in the same boat as yaah...not a big fan of NYC (but I'm not a big city person anyways). My sentiments are very much in line with his assessment which you quoted. What I may have said in the past was, admittedly, based on hearsay and oh yeah, a whoppin' one day interview visit...some of which, ill-advised and perhaps misinformed. Live and learn. Academia seems to perpetuate the kind of behavior where one must feel the need to inflate the image of their genitals by verbally smacking down others.

 

[Bosque]

Brougham makes a really good point here. There is no shame in showing a case around. One of the most important things I’ve learned (at Cornell) is that, as pathologists, we’re all in this together. Our job is often very, very hard, and we need to be open to offering help to colleagues without belittling their skills, and we need to be able to ask for help ourselves in the expectation that our consultant will not scoff at our ignorance. In other words, the kind of “I’m better than you” and “My institution is better than yours” attitude that NYCsicko is taking is not just immature, it can actually be dangerous for patient care as well as professionally self-defeating.

Even when you sit at the scope with THE expert in a given field, there will be a certain number of cases about which they say, “I just don’t know what this is, we’d better ask so-and-so,” or “We’re just going to have to sign this out descriptively.”

I once heard Fred Silva say that among the most important qualities pathologists look for in hiring a new colleague is that the new person “know what they don’t know,” and be willing to ask for second opinions. This is the mark of a mature, careful pathologist. I truly hope that by the time NYCsicko graduates from his prestigious program, his attendings will have, either explicitly or implicitly, discouraged in him the kind of immature cowboy approach that is on display here.

 

[CornellDerm]

After re-reading my post from the other day, as well as the thoughtful comments of some others, I must confess that my last post was indeed haughty, inappropriate and certainly not representative collectively of my fellow colleagues (past and present).

The truth is that I had been very offended by the all the Cornell bashing occurring on this website and over-reacted in the heat of the moment. I had tried to express a sincere opinion of Cornell based on my 4 years experience in a previous post and was surprised by all the negative propaganda abounding by the hour. What is the point, honestly? Furthermore, I see this not just as bashing of the Cornell pathology residency but also of the Cornell name in general. Would any proud alumnus sit quietly as their alma mater was slandered with such absurd, childish linguistic creations as "Cornhell"?

All that aside, the few points I am trying to make presently (and more sensibly this time) are the following.

(1) There are very many talented residents at Cornell (past and present). Many of these residents worked very hard in medical school and had their pick of pathology residency. Sure, Cornell may not be commonly regarded as “top tier”, but most of us did chose this training program as our first choice for our own reasons....whether because we believed it was the best fit to our personality, or because we simply wanted to be in NYC, or for other more personal reasons such as having a spouse working in Manhattan. In my experience so far, all the graduates or soon-to-be graduates I know are doing quite well for themselves and are without regrets.

(2) More important, dialogues such as these, one that I too am guilty myself now of being an immature participant, should have as their "raison d'être" the simple goal (I would hope) of helping all the pathology applicants chose more informatively the programs to which they apply. Some of us (including myself) have sent a bad message to them by engaging in such self-infantilizing discourse. After all, we as pathologists are in fact physicians and should live up to a certain degree of professionalism. Furthermore, we represent a minority in medicine. That being said, it would seem to make more sense (at least to me) for us to form alliances with each one another rather than to demerit one another post-by-post based on where we are doing or have done our residency.

(3) If you had a positive experience at your training program, then obviously share it with the applicants. Similarly, if you had a negative one, then perhaps you should share that too if you think it serves a valid purpose—one whose primary motivation does not stem from some form of personal grievance or resentment. I do hope that from now on and perhaps others will agree with me and follow my lead, that the largely unsubstantiated speculation and outright slander about programs at which you did not train should come to an end. We all have our strengths and shortcomings, but isn’t that why we send consults to each other? Can anyone really be or wish to be an expert in every area of pathology. It makes more sense these days to become an expert in one specific subspecialty that makes you want to go to work in the morning. That being said, it is simply unrealistic to expect to find a training program (with few exceptions) having famous pathologists for every organ system.

(4) I realize my last post was perceived as downright arrogant and I apologize for that. Although I would really like to crush nysicko on the boards, at this point, I would be just as happy passing the damned thing and I wish him the best of luck as well. Why the epiphany? Well, just listening to the Osler lecture on laboratory instrumentation today was quite humbling and I realized just how bad I suck at physics. And I’m sure there are many other areas where I will find myself equally clueless in the upcoming months of board preparation.

(5) I consider myself extremely lucky for having been accepted to any dermpath fellowship at all. One thing I've learned is that there’s no room for entitlement in dermpath. I met many applicants on the interview trail, many of whom were much more qualified than I, who did not have any success.

(6) Finally, the tirade in French at the end of the last post was just intended to show you that many of the Cornell residents in fact came to NYC because we have other interests outside the realm of medicine/pathology (as everyone does); however, to many of us, these outside interests (passions) were so important to our well-being that we couldn’t resist the cultural opportunities here in new york….foreign language, literature, art, theatre, etc.

Well, I’ve put in more than my $0.02. I welcome comments.

 

[LADoc00]

Wow, I made it through Brougham's entire post...probably because it's after Thanksgiving, I'm at work, and there are all but just two consults for me to look at.

So before I head out for a long leisurely lunch break, I wanted to make two brief, probably trivial, points given what's already been said. The first one was something I meant to post earlier but just simply forgot to given the entertainment value of this thread in general.

1) RE: Mark Rubin...he signed out cases on the GU service when he was here, prior to his departure to Cornell. Can't be sure if he signs out given his new position (cuz I'm not there), but if I had to make a bet, I would think that he still would be signing out GU.

2) Also wanted to reiterate that there is no shame in showing cases around. For the residents managing the case, of course it sucks, cuz you gotta run around, go to different buildings, make appointments, deal with clinician phone calls as to why it's taking so damn long to sign out a case...and blah blah blah. Sure. But I have no problems with that since it does make for better patient care...it also covers your ass too!

OK...that's it for now. Hope you're recovering from your respective turkey hangovers.

P.S. I almost missed it but I did catch your comment about my prior comments about Cornell. I have to admit that I'm in the same boat as yaah...not a big fan of NYC (but I'm not a big city person anyways). My sentiments are very much in line with his assessment which you quoted. What I may have said in the past was, admittedly, based on hearsay and oh yeah, a whoppin' one day interview visit...some of which, ill-advised and perhaps misinformed. Live and learn. Academia seems to perpetuate the kind of behavior where one must feel the need to inflate the image of their genitals by verbally smacking down others.

Im gonna Cliff's Notes version of the post. Mkay? Thanks.

 

[Bosque]

CornellDerm, thank you for explaining/amending the prior post. I know it was not representative either of you personally or of the Cornell program. Although I’m no longer in NY, I completely agree with your idea that NY pathologists should be banding together and making alliances instead of bashing each other – especially as much has been said on this thread to malign New York pathology in general. This kind of back and forth can only reinforce the unfounded perception that there is something screwy going on with the pathology community in NY. Good luck with boards studying. Nothing like a lecture on laboratory instrumentation to put the fear into you!

 

[Brougham]

Just kidding, this will be short. Thanks Andy (a.k.a. das boot), Bosque, LaDoc AND CornellDerm for your unsolicited (or a least not explicitly solicited) comments and much needed corrections o).

CornellDerm, that last post was much more reflective of the CornellDerm I known in “real life”. It wasn’t pleasant for me to write what I wrote. I understand you were angry; I was too. But your comments were out of line. That being said, it takes integrity to admit, in public, when you’re wrong--so thanks.

Let me follow your example, CornellDerm, and apologize to anyone, including yourself and Nycsicko, or whomever I may have offended by anything I wrote. It wasn’t my intention to be insulting and a lot of what I wrote was written out of anger. So, I am sorry. Now, it’s time to get back to work…slackers (COME ON IT’S AAAA JOKE…, yes, even Memorial slows down a bit during the Holidays).

 

[NewYResident]

As a resident at NYU (PGY3), I feel that I should make sure we get our fair share of representation:

THE PROGRAM:

Advantages:

1) Excellent training--> criteria--> our program performs very well every year on the RISE (in-service) exam, didactic lectures every day, anatomic and clinical rounds, etc (if you want more details.....ask)

2) Excellent lifestyle--> First years--> carry most of service, on-call about once to twice a month, rarely go in on weekday, about 33% (or less) on weekend. tons of anatomic pathology education, really hone your skills
second years--> continue to carry the service, but only for 5 months, then electives, on call about 1/mos (go in less). Third year--> CP!!! our program is top heavy, you put in your time covering the anatomic service in your first two years and then you are really a "senior resident". Begin CP curriculum. Constant contact with anatomic side to maintain education and skills, but only one month of anatomic responsibilities. on call 1/mos. BEST LIFESTYLE!!! Finally fourth year--> only CP call, two months anatomic responsibility, advanced CP rotations, BOARDS (and we are very prepared!!)

3) Salary--> Last I checked we are the highest paid in NYC!! PGY3s--> 62K

4) Location--> 20s-30s on first ave, Safe area

Of course, to be fair, I cannot praise our program without criticism:

Disadvantages:

1) HOUSING. Although the Deans and House Staff Offices have recently addressed this issue and reallocation of apartments will occur soon, it will not benefit me (maybe next years residents). NYU provides subsidised housing for approximately 10-15% of housestaff, with preference to PGY1s (of course), if you are not one of the fortunate, they do provides assistance in housing with NO BROKER FEE apartments, and acting as a guarantor for your lease. I have never done the math, but maybe our salary covers the difference?!?!? Bottomline, the housing situation is certainly a disadvantage, hopefully will be corrected soon, but I dont know when!

MYTHS:

I also believe, as previously stated in this forum, that FMG's should not be used as a criteria of quality for a program. Go visit and make your own decision. They probably just beat you on the boards.

FINAL SUGGESTION:

As opposed to your previous training, which reputation of the University or School was important, as applicants to residency, you now should take your lifestlye into consideration. How will I live? Where are my friends and family? Significant other? Start a family? You will be in that locale for the next four years.....plan accordingly. The fact of the matter is, beyond medical school, reputation of the training facility doesn't mean as much. Learn as much as possible, be proactive in your career, and network......and any job will be yours!!

I hope this was helpful.

 

[gbwillner]

MYTHS:

I also believe, as previously stated in this forum, that FMG's should not be used as a criteria of quality for a program....

FINAL SUGGESTION:

As opposed to your previous training, which reputation of the University or School was important, as applicants to residency, you now should take your lifestlye into consideration. How will I live? Where are my friends and family? Significant other? Start a family? You will be in that locale for the next four years.....plan accordingly. The fact of the matter is, beyond medical school, reputation of the training facility doesn't mean as much....

While I agree that FMGs in a program are not a great criteria for quality of a program, they do indicate its competitiveness. One or two FMGs mean nothing- they could be brilliant. But if a program is filled with them, to me that indicates that a program is having trouble filling its spots since, apparently universally, programs prefer AMGs. This could secondarily reflect program quality.

Your second statement indicates to me that you are going into private practice. From what I've seen, the quality of your training is very important in an academic career. It's also important for securing a top-notch fellowship.

 

[NewYResident]

Careful, dont put words in someones mouth.

I am pursuing an academic career with an excellent fellowship secured.

Second, I didnt say training was not important, it is just not as important as it is for other steps in your career. Fellowship directors, and especially future bosses (both academic and private) need to know that they can work with you, that they can trust you, and that you will contribute (or improve) the overall work environment of the institution. Dont underestimate the power of personality and interpersonal relationships for your future. (and this is coming from someone that hated Behavioral Sciences in med school)

 

[nycsicko]

Careful, dont put words in someones mouth.

I am pursuing an academic career with an excellent fellowship secured.

Second, I didnt say training was not important, it is just not as important as it is for other steps in your career. Fellowship directors, and especially future bosses (both academic and private) need to know that they can work with you, that they can trust you, and that you will contribute (or improve) the overall work environment of the institution. Dont underestimate the power of personality and interpersonal relationships for your future. (and this is coming from someone that hated Behavioral Sciences in med school)

wow! Criteria? thats crazy! what?? recognizing you program has strengths AND weaknesses? You could teach all these arrogant cornell egos a few things! i bet you will kick cornellderms ass on the boards.

FMG's make for great pathologists...case closed! Unless they are French...

 

[longlakeboy]

Question about the Columbia interview, for anyone who has done it.

What time does it get out? I'm trying to figure out my flights...

 

[beponychick]

i am a current pgy4 ap/cp resident at cornell.

i strongly recommend cornell if you are sure you want to be in nyc. the only other program that is about on par with us in my opinion is columbia (our sister hospital). the major advantage of cornell is the housing and location. It is subsidized and the rent is deducted from your paycheck. An apartment in the upper east side of manhattan that would normally cost about $2000/month or more is about $1400-1500/month. The housing for residents is adjacent to the hospital. You will have about a 30 second commute to work and you may even take a subterranean tunnel from your apartment building to the hospital if you so choose.

The major strong points of our program, in my opinion, are breast (PPR), GI (Dr Yantiss), GYN (Drs Ellenson and Bergen), and DERM (Dr Magro). The CP is also improving constantly. Recently, we have a great new chemist from MGH (Dr Agrawal) and blood banker (Dr Cushing from Emory). We even have one CP-only resident who plans on pursuing transfusion medicine—a result of the contagious enthusiasm of our new recruit.

My co-residents have all secured fellowships of their choice: molecular (1), lung path (1), GI (1) and derm (2).

I recommend doing an elective here if you are interested to see if you think you can fit in and handle NYC living (which is expensive but fun).

Good luck!

Hi!

Would you by any chance know if Cornell has housing for families? For instance, assuming I do my residency there, would I be able to get a 2BR apartment that is subsidized?

Thanks so much!

 

[gbwillner]

Hi!

Would you by any chance know if Cornell has housing for families? For instance, assuming I do my residency there, would I be able to get a 2BR apartment that is subsidized?

Thanks so much!

I recently interviewed at Cornell and they defintely have subsidized housing that varies by family size. From what I saw it was Efficiencies-3BR apartments.

BTW, I found Cornell to be very impressive, especially considering the small size of the program. For academics, you can do research at Cornell, MSKCC or Rockefeller, they are moving towards molecular Path within the department with some new, top-notch faculty, the environment is friendly, and the program is currently expanding and hiring faculty in the areas that have pointed out as "deficient" on this board.

More importantly (and not previously mentioned here), Cornell has strong CP training, which seems to be an afterthought at most programs. Certainly none of the other NYC programs have such a strong program (from what I saw and heard).

As far as the FMG thing... I don't think I met a single one. Cornell seems to be fairly competitive in recruiting applicants.

 

[erythrocyte]

.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

More importantly (and not previously mentioned here), Cornell has strong CP training, which seems to be an afterthought at most programs.

I don't care what anyone "says" at the interview, CP training is probably garbage at most programs, with the exception of a couple. If you go into CP expecting to have to educate yourself, you will be better served for it.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I don't care what anyone "says" at the interview, CP training is probably garbage at most programs, with the exception of a couple. If you go into CP expecting to have to educate yourself, you will be better served for it.

Yeah, I don't think anyone has perfected CP training. CP training seems to be a mess anywhere you go.

 

[yaah]

Most programs have the same speech for CP:

"Lots of programs say they do CP well, but here we really do do it well!"

It's kind of like how most parents think their children are above average. Most programs think their CP training is above average, but only 50% of programs will be above average.

I don't know about other people, but I want more free time on CP. There is a lot to read and a lot to learn and we have lots of presentations.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

I don't know about other people, but I want more free time on CP. There is a lot to read and a lot to learn and we have lots of presentations.

I completely agree. Most of the time I am responsible for some innane crap on the slower rotations, where, ideally, I would be spending more time one-on-one with an attending learning something or reading. Instead I spend it calling clinicians all day about some esoteric test they ordered. At least at the main hospital the rotations (Blood Bank, Hematology, Bone Marrow, and Immuno) are busy enough where you actual learn something.

 

[jean veljean]

Hey there everyone,

When ranking the path programs in ny it seems st. vincents is usually on the bottom. I wanted to get your perspective on why the program is considered so bad?

I know the program has undergone bankruptcy and voluntarily withdrew their peds program. Is their anything else? I mean it seems to be located in a pretty decent area in NYC.

 

[nycsicko]

There are over 12,000 surgical specimens annually, covering a wide range of diseases and approximately 100 autopsies. Autopsy and surgical pathology are integrated under close supervision of staff pathologists. Forensic pathology is included in the 2nd year. Sub-specialty training in cytology, electron microscopy and neuropathology is continuous throughout the two years.

 

[sohsie]

I remember one program where the CP director went on and on about how great their CP training program, in a very arrogant manner, and saying they were much better than other programs. When I asked him to explain what they do that makes them better, he couldnt come up with anything. Turns out, Ive heard from multiple sources that 3 of 4 people who took CP boards last year failed. So much for their CP training.

No, I wont name the program.

Most programs have the same speech for CP:

"Lots of programs say they do CP well, but here we really do do it well!"

It's kind of like how most parents think their children are above average. Most programs think their CP training is above average, but only 50% of programs will be above average.

I don't know about other people, but I want more free time on CP. There is a lot to read and a lot to learn and we have lots of presentations.

 

[gbwillner]

I remember one program where the CP director went on and on about how great their CP training program, in a very arrogant manner, and saying they were much better than other programs. When I asked him to explain what they do that makes them better, he couldnt come up with anything. Turns out, Ive heard from multiple sources that 3 of 4 people who took CP boards last year failed. So much for their CP training.

No, I wont name the program.

Ok, lots of people commenting on what bad CP training is like, but what is "good" CP training comprised of?

In my interviews I looked for the following:
- strong influence in the hospital and respect from other departments
- "consult" model, where CP is consulted like other services
- protected and descript didactic teaching
- ability to round with other services (heme/onc, ID)
- runs own apheresis/blood bank services
- resident responsibility emphasized, residents called first with problems

what else?

 

[paaricmc]

for those actually looking for information on programs. these are the facts (and yes there are FACTS) that you should at least consider when selecting a program.

1) what is the volume of sugical pathology specimens seen
2) how many attendings are there in the department
3) how many of the attedending did sub-specialty fellowship training in thier field of interest.
4) how productive are the faculty, fellows and residents in terms of yearly publications
5) does the program tend to fill its own fellowships with inside people (sometime a sign that the programs believes its own residents are well trained and that the resdient has had good experinces while training there)
6) are there any faculty who receive large numbers of consults. how may attendings? This is really important because you will get to see the usual stuff often but this is the best way to see lots of rare stuff. If there are faculty with consults is there a mechanism for you to be exposed to them?

Whatever said I think thats pretty sound advice. Thanks.

 

[Guttenberg]

I have to disagree with you. NYC is an amazing city, which offers more than any other place in North America: from the shopping of downtown and Fifth av. to schools and the beaches of Long Island. No questions, it is expensive, so as any other big city. San-Francisco and Boston are almost as expensive as NY, Chicago may be an exception, bacause it is not on the coast. You have to spend some time in NY to actually appreciate it. A lot of people come to the city hating it, but in a few months they fall in love with the place. As far as the hospital housing, for Einstein it not on site, but close. Cornell and Roosevelt St.Lukes have housing right across the hospitals. Don't be afraid of the city, it is not a monster . I would agree with Yaah, Cornell is probably the strongest city program now, but Columbia is also very much respected. Mt Sinai besides huge volume has some great attendings, Einstein/Montefiore is very good if you are looking for a bit less intense place.

Not sure if you've been to the same NY I've been to, but after being here for 6 years, I can say NY is the closest thing to a third world environment in the United States. From the rude people, trash all over the streets, and awful weather, I mean its probably the only place that still has cases of lead poisoning for crying out loud. NY is a dump. Only recommended if you are young and enjoy the nightlife. But after that, forget it. Thankfully I'll be doing fellowship elsewhere.

 

[Guttenberg]

Hey there everyone,

When ranking the path programs in ny it seems st. vincents is usually on the bottom. I wanted to get your perspective on why the program is considered so bad?

I know the program has undergone bankruptcy and voluntarily withdrew their peds program. Is their anything else? I mean it seems to be located in a pretty decent area in NYC.

It's in a great area. I interviewed there, the department is on the third floor and the cutting room has a great view of 7th ave.

They don't have electron microscopy anymore, but have a pretty good breast & soft tissue pathology service at the comprehensive cancer center (st. vinnie) as well as urological pathology. It's a smaller program with fewer specimens, but maybe its major limitations is the lack of ancillary studies that are often referred out. From what i hear, most of their recent graduating class pursued fellowships at Mt.Sinai... can't be all that bad.

 

[CameronFrye]

Not sure if you've been to the same NY I've been to, but after being here for 6 years, I can say NY is the closest thing to a third world environment in the United States. From the rude people, trash all over the streets, and awful weather, I mean its probably the only place that still has cases of lead poisoning for crying out loud. NY is a dump. Only recommended if you are young and enjoy the nightlife. But after that, forget it. Thankfully I'll be doing fellowship elsewhere.

Don't hold back, tell us what you really think.

 

[LADoc00]

Not sure if you've been to the same NY I've been to, but after being here for 6 years, I can say NY is the closest thing to a third world environment in the United States. From the rude people, trash all over the streets, and awful weather, I mean its probably the only place that still has cases of lead poisoning for crying out loud. NY is a dump. Only recommended if you are young and enjoy the nightlife. But after that, forget it. Thankfully I'll be doing fellowship elsewhere.

Huh..I just got back from NYC and granted Im wealth off and had people sucking up to me, but the Met, Central Park, Delmonico's Steakhouse(where Screaming Eagle is on the wine menu, only 1 of 2 places in the world Ive seen it), Wall Street, Sushi near NYU even Battery Park with the homeless seemed reasonably cool.

I actually was sitting in a bar (outside of NYC) and noticed a group of real roughneck blue collar guys smoking cigars, union types in overalls who dont take too kindly to an LADOC type wearing a Brooks Brothers blazer outfit. But still I wandered over to ask if I could purchase a cigar off one of em and they gave me a Arturo Fuente Hemingway, free. Nice cigar, they handed it over and told me "go back to California and tell em New Yorkers arent all a-holes". Stuck in my mind.

 

[KeratinPearls]

Huh..I just got back from NYC and granted Im wealth off and had people sucking up to me, but the Met, Central Park, Delmonico's Steakhouse(where Screaming Eagle is on the wine menu, only 1 of 2 places in the world Ive seen it), Wall Street, Sushi near NYU even Battery Park with the homeless seemed reasonably cool.

I actually was sitting in a bar (outside of NYC) and noticed a group of real roughneck blue collar guys smoking cigars, union types in overalls who dont take too kindly to an LADOC type wearing a Brooks Brothers blazer outfit. But still I wandered over to ask if I could purchase a cigar off one of em and they gave me a Arturo Fuente Hemingway, free. Nice cigar, they handed it over and told me "go back to California and tell em New Yorkers arent all a-holes". Stuck in my mind.

The area near Battery park with all the multimillion dollar condos is prob the best area in Manhattan. NY has a lot of culture, food, etc. but if you don't like congested, crowded areas, NYC is not for you.

 

[Arctic Char]

The area near Battery park with all the multimillion dollar condos is prob the best area in Manhattan. NY has a lot of culture, food, etc. but if you don't like congested, crowded areas, NYC is not for you.

i'm in NYC at the moment. i'm a coastal/mountains kind of guy, and although NYC has zilch in that department, i'm still relatively impressed with the livability of this place. i could stay here for four years . . . i'd prefer to be in north carolina, but again, i could do NYC

 

[skinknee]

Hey nycsicko and everyone else,

I was looking for info on Dartmouth's path program. How does it compare to Columbia, Cornell, and Mt. Sinai.

Also where do you rate NYU's Path program in the mix of NYC programs?

I know Dartmouth is out in the boonies but that doesnt bother me. I wouuld like to know where or if they stand with the bigger programs.

Thanks for you input.

I know the best thing for me is to see for myself but I only got a couple electives and the input on these forums is very insightful.

 

[Arctic Char]

Hey nycsicko and everyone else,

I was looking for info on Dartmouth's path program. How does it compare to Columbia, Cornell, and Mt. Sinai.

Also where do you rate NYU's Path program in the mix of NYC programs?

I know Dartmouth is out in the boonies but that doesnt bother me. I wouuld like to know where or if they stand with the bigger programs.

Thanks for you input.

I know the best thing for me is to see for myself but I only got a couple electives and the input on these forums is very insightful.

darthmouth is A+ BECAUSE its in the boonies. my $0.02