University of Maryland Pathology Program

umms said:

The females can easily work in maternity leave [/COLOR]

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Awesome.


So what are the drawbacks then? Every program has drawbacks. I would be concerned myself about the small size of the program (given that there were only two fourth year residents and now there are none)- while that has its benefits it certainly also may be a hindrance. I know some people like small programs, but in pathology you really do need lots of volume and diversity in specimen load. Many small programs do get that though. Our program has something like 30 residents and we could probably use more to cover all the work.

umms said:

The applicants this year should know..... The program at University of Maryland is an excellent one. I am currently a PGY-2 at UMMS. The reason the program went "unfilled" in 2007-2008 is a technical error. We missed the deadline to remove this spot due to the fact that we were busy preparing for the ACGME site visit. These visits take a lot of preparation for every program. We didn't have any fourth years this year because they both transferred for family reasons. Any med student or resident that has been here can tell you how great it is. I just came back from a CAP meeting in Chicago and let me tell you, we have a damn good program. Anyone who is interviewing and wants to spend more time here to check it out, feel free. Just let Katie Raymundo the residency coordinator know. We will be more than happy to show you what it is like. Here is a list of reasons why our program is so great:

We have awesome hours (95% of the time)
We have a 3 day schedule for surgicals: Day 1 Grossing; Day 2 Frozens and Biopsy; Day 3 Sign out
We have an excellent call schedule
We get a month of vacation every year
We have a competitive salary and excellent benefits
UMMS is an award winning hospital
We have Dr. Silverberg as an attending
You can publish as many papers as you want here, in just about any subject
Our core rotations are only at UMMS and the VA which are connected
All of our attendings are nice, benign and good at teaching
We have lectures everyday with free lunch on Monday
We get neuropath two times a week
We get soft tissue lectures once a month
We get lectures in all other subjects on a regular basis
We have PIP and CTTR conferences
We have resident retreats
We have very flexible opportunities to do electives and we get paid while we do them
We do not have to do service work while on these electives
We all have our own desk, computer, and everyone has a scope
The females can easily work in maternity leave
We have close, garage parking paid for, $1000 dollar book fund (the highest I've heard of)
We get time off to present at conferences
We have time to read
And last but not least we have an AWESOME, approachable program director who is always trying to improve the program

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WTH...hate to burst your bubble but all that is true for a vast majority of all other programs as well.

Post something meaningful like 80% of our residents went on to elite fellowships, or our starting job offers for fellows/residents was >200,000/year or 50% of our trainees got KO8 grants etc.

Maternity leave is federal law IIRC, at least in CA they have to give it you, so that point alone begins to invalidate your ad thing.

Seriously need to tone down the "Ra-Ra Our Residency Program is LEET" thing.

umms said:

whatever hater.

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I know you probably spent like 30 minutes thinking of all that and typing it out. Im sure UofMd applauds your effort but I want the 2 minutes of my life I spent glancing over that back...

umms said:

Our program has 15 residents. That is not small, it is just right. Our volume is not too much nor too little. The drawbacks- we may have more transplant call than other medical centers. We are a transplant center. But I am going to be damn good at kidney biopsies when I finish my training. Still, we only have 5 weekend calls/year and 12 weekday calls/year. Our last 2 years we have mostly blood bank call and I am not sure how that is.
Yeah people gripe about stuff, but it is just about having the life of a resident. It seems to me that we have one of the best residency lives around though.

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So your only weakness are strengths? Nice double think.

How is your support staff, how is there area around the hospital, how is the alumni network, where have your distinguished forebears gotten positions...?

LADoc00 said:

WTH...hate to burst your bubble but all that is true for a vast majority of all other programs as well.

Post something meaningful like 80% of our residents went on to elite fellowships, or our starting job offers for fellows/residents was >200,000/year or 50% of our trainees got KO8 grants etc.

Maternity leave is federal law IIRC, at least in CA they have to give it you, so that point alone begins to invalidate your ad thing.

Seriously need to tone down the "Ra-Ra Our Residency Program is LEET" thing.

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I happen to know some of the recent graduates from University of Maryland 2006
1 U Penn Cyto
2 JHMI GU, Informatics
1 MD Anderson combined Surg path and Cyto
1 AFIP Pulm then JHMI GU

Thats 5/5

I think is a good program also.

I interviewed there as a resident candidate many years ago and at that time senior residents advised against going to the program. The physical plant was atrocious. I was alarmed that they had a call room and residents took in house call, mostly to do frozens on transplant evaluations, which attending staff stayed at home and read by telepathology. Besides - if you absolutely have to be in Baltimore - you probably should be at the other place. No offense, but the program I attended years ago had a larger book allowance.

pathdoc68 said:

I interviewed there as a resident candidate many years ago and at that time senior residents advised against going to the program. The physical plant was atrocious. I was alarmed that they had a call room and residents took in house call, mostly to do frozens on transplant evaluations, which attending staff stayed at home and read by telepathology. Besides - if you absolutely have to be in Baltimore - you probably should be the other place. No offense, but the program I attended years ago had a larger book allowance.

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in house call? that is unheard of in my experience UNHEARD OF....

They do realize they CANT bill for frozens that arent co-signed by attending with CMS priveleges? How could they possibly have that transplant volume to need a 24-7 in house pathologist? Mayo doesnt even have that.

Screw it, Im calling it: Shenanigans.

LADoc00 said:

in house call? that is unheard of in my experience UNHEARD OF....

They do realize they CANT bill for frozens that arent co-signed by attending with CMS priveleges? How could they possibly have that transplant volume to need a 24-7 in house pathologist? Mayo doesnt even have that.

Screw it, Im calling it: Shenanigans.

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Everyone was asking for information about this program and now everyone has it. Who better than a current resident to post that information? The fact that it was such a positive post should tell you a lot about the program and the feelings of people that are actually involved with it. Trust me, most people in the U of Maryland program didn't opt to go there as a default because they couldn't get into Hopkins... As a matter of fact, I'm sure many never had any intentions to go to Hopkins and actually wanted to go to U of Maryland. The two programs are very different (just like all programs). From what I hear, the atmosphere at Hopkins is somewhat malignant with excessive responsibilities and very little time for self study or a little bit of a life outside of work. The atmosphere at U of Maryland is completely different... and if that is important to you, than it's just one more thing that makes it a good program. Sure, there are plenty of other reasons to go (or not) go there, but you have to decide that based not just on objective facts but also on the opinions of the people you might be working with for the next few years. The more opinions you get about the program from people who actually know something about it, the better. Anyone can gather and post information on who got into what fellowship. Also, U of Maryland is quite aware of what they can and can't bill for... they have been doing this for a while you know. There is NO in house call. Again, just a rumor posted by one person who knows nothing about the program. There will be plenty of idiotic statements (reference above quote) about any program... people seem to have an innate desire to defend their own program and bash others. I think having someone from the inside is a great resource for those serious about the program.

Your sarcastic (and pointless) responses to serious posts may have been funny in 10th grade, but now they only bore me. By ceasing to post any further, you can get your 2 minutes back, and save us all a small annoyance.

LADoc00 said:

in house call? that is unheard of in my experience UNHEARD OF....

They do realize they CANT bill for frozens that arent co-signed by attending with CMS priveleges? How could they possibly have that transplant volume to need a 24-7 in house pathologist? Mayo doesnt even have that.

Screw it, Im calling it: Shenanigans.

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Yeah, well, my program has seniors covering after-hours frozens without an attending. They just don't bill and write it off. I'd guess that the time it would take an attending to come in from home late at night to do a single frozen wouldn't end up being the most profitable hour of their day, but it's a pretty valuable experience for the residents (although we definitely don't have to be in-house all night!)

They do not do in-house call thats BS.

DiphallicTerata said:

Everyone was asking for information about this program and now everyone has it. Who better than a current resident to post that information? The fact that it was such a positive post should tell you a lot about the program and the feelings of people that are actually involved with it. Trust me, most people in the U of Maryland program didn't opt to go there as a default because they couldn't get into Hopkins... As a matter of fact, I'm sure many never had any intentions to go to Hopkins and actually wanted to go to U of Maryland. The two programs are very different (just like all programs). From what I hear, the atmosphere at Hopkins is somewhat malignant with excessive responsibilities and very little time for self study or a little bit of a life outside of work. The atmosphere at U of Maryland is completely different... and if that is important to you, than it's just one more thing that makes it a good program. Sure, there are plenty of other reasons to go (or not) go there, but you have to decide that based not just on objective facts but also on the opinions of the people you might be working with for the next few years. The more opinions you get about the program from people who actually know something about it, the better. Anyone can gather and post information on who got into what fellowship. Also, U of Maryland is quite aware of what they can and can't bill for... they have been doing this for a while you know. There is NO in house call. Again, just a rumor posted by one person who knows nothing about the program. There will be plenty of idiotic statements (reference above quote) about any program... people seem to have an innate desire to defend their own program and bash others. I think having someone from the inside is a great resource for those serious about the program.

Your sarcastic (and pointless) responses to serious posts may have been funny in 10th grade, but now they only bore me. By ceasing to post any further, you can get your 2 minutes back, and save us all a small annoyance.

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Actually, I was calling shenanigans on the guy who said they take in house call..residents ability to bill for medicare services without proper oversight ended some time ago even in Maryland and I know for a fact no program in the US stations pathology residents overnight for frozen sections.

Regardless, the OP had a list of attributes that was in no way specific to UofM, which although it might be a solid program, the original intent of this thread seriously backfired in my mind.

There are WAY the hell too many pathology training programs and IMO frankly I doubt the state could even absorb all the Hopkins trainees let alone graduates of the state school.

I personally dont care they all found fellowships after their training there, where is the data that shows what they are doing 5 years out? What % of Maryland residents are FMGs?

My point is post real measures of the success a program rather than saying they have maternity leave....I think most would agree with me.

PS-My gut about a program like UofMD is that it has a percent that are people who went to medical school there and are comfortable with environment, which is fine. Another large chunk are FMGs who usually throw out 50+ applications in a fishing expedition for a slot. Is someone from UCLA or UWash going to come across the country to go there? Unlikely. It is a good community type training program with alot of exposure (apparently) to transplant pathology. Just call it like it is and we can end this discussion. The real risk I see is the pathology section being FLOODED with PDs and residents from one of the 60+ residency programs posting how great their program is. This issue was best addressed on the thread where someone (not I) attacked UofMD.

umms said:

Yes, the program definitely had a lot of room for improvement several years ago. Things have changed a lot though. My point was not that we are the greatest program on earth, just that things have turned around and we are now a good program. So everyone should stop being so hateful and bashing a program they know very little about. Don't the attendings have anything better to do anyway?

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See THAT is a lot different then saying look at our great program.
Admitting that there were problems and that changes have been made is more inline with what people know about the program.

Coming on here and describing your program using multiple "excellent" and "awesome" descriptors is pretty one sided and will actually make some people more suspicious

Regardless of the merits of the program, I think that what they did to applicants last year was extremely poor form. I (and I assume others) applied and waited weeks without so much as a single reply. Only after several months did they post a note on ERAS indicating that they would not be taking residents in 2007.

It costs money to apply to programs, and that was an application that I could have sent somewhere else. They should have at the very least apologized, and in my opinion, they should have reimbursed all applicants for lost application fees.

LADoc00 said:

Actually, I was calling shenanigans on the guy who said they take in house call..residents ability to bill for medicare services without proper oversight ended some time ago even in Maryland and I know for a fact no program in the US stations pathology residents overnight for frozen sections.

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Our senior residents and fellows read the after hours frozens; however, they certainly don't take in-house call and we do not bill for those frozens, unless the frozen was beamed to an attending, using our telepath setup (it's usually only used on difficult cases).

Ziehl-Nielsen said:

Regardless of the merits of the program, I think that what they did to applicants last year was extremely poor form. I (and I assume others) applied and waited weeks without so much as a single reply. Only after several months did they post a note on ERAS indicating that they would not be taking residents in 2007.

It costs money to apply to programs, and that was an application that I could have sent somewhere else. They should have at the very least apologized, and in my opinion, they should have reimbursed all applicants for lost application fees.

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You an AMG? Just curious. Send the Chairman a letter asking for your money to be returned. Im serious. File a compliant with Maryland Business Bureau.

LADoc00 said:

Actually, I was calling shenanigans on the guy who said they take in house call..residents ability to bill for medicare services without proper oversight ended some time ago even in Maryland and I know for a fact no program in the US stations pathology residents overnight for frozen sections.

Regardless, the OP had a list of attributes that was in no way specific to UofM, which although it might be a solid program, the original intent of this thread seriously backfired in my mind.

There are WAY the hell too many pathology training programs and IMO frankly I doubt the state could even absorb all the Hopkins trainees let alone graduates of the state school.

I personally dont care they all found fellowships after their training there, where is the data that shows what they are doing 5 years out? What % of Maryland residents are FMGs?

My point is post real measures of the success a program rather than saying they have maternity leave....I think most would agree with me.

PS-My gut about a program like UofMD is that it has a percent that are people who went to medical school there and are comfortable with environment, which is fine. Another large chunk are FMGs who usually throw out 50+ applications in a fishing expedition for a slot. Is someone from UCLA or UWash going to come across the country to go there? Unlikely. It is a good community type training program with alot of exposure (apparently) to transplant pathology. Just call it like it is and we can end this discussion. The real risk I see is the pathology section being FLOODED with PDs and residents from one of the 60+ residency programs posting how great their program is. This issue was best addressed on the thread where someone (not I) attacked UofMD.

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Dear colleague- we agree that some of the good qualities that were initially brought up about the program are quite standard, such as maternity leave.
Probably only a handful of programs could make people relocate across the country.
I would also like to clarify that the only reason I stated the fellowships attained by recent Uof MD graduates was because you the brought it up.
We truly appreciate the time you took to prepare a semi-eloquent response to the previous posts. However, yet again, it is mostly based on inaccurate facts. Correcting some of your latest numbers, in the last 5 years, only 2 Uof MD SOM graduates have done their Path residency at U of MD. Finally, since you asked only 2/15 current residents are FMG.

So far the score is: Facts 2 your gut 0

I am sure that everybody appreciates the input that you bring to the forum, but please stick to the facts; otherwise you take the risk of embarrassing yourself.

I hope this is the end of it.

Ziehl-Nielsen said:

Regardless of the merits of the program, I think that what they did to applicants last year was extremely poor form. I (and I assume others) applied and waited weeks without so much as a single reply. Only after several months did they post a note on ERAS indicating that they would not be taking residents in 2007.

It costs money to apply to programs, and that was an application that I could have sent somewhere else. They should have at the very least apologized, and in my opinion, they should have reimbursed all applicants for lost application fees.

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For starters, ERAS charges you a fee PER GROUP of residency programs to which you want to apply. Also, I am sure there are other current residents out there who applied to various pathology residency programs and did not hear anything back from them and yet, they are not all running to each and every chairman of those programs and demanding their money back.

My gut is recovering from heavy drinking, give it a break. At least it doesnt choke like Cal Football.

Ziehl-Nielsen said:

Regardless of the merits of the program, I think that what they did to applicants last year was extremely poor form. I (and I assume others) applied and waited weeks without so much as a single reply. Only after several months did they post a note on ERAS indicating that they would not be taking residents in 2007.

It costs money to apply to programs, and that was an application that I could have sent somewhere else. They should have at the very least apologized, and in my opinion, they should have reimbursed all applicants for lost application fees.

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The same thing happened to me with one of the programs in the DC area when I was applying for residency. I would never had known if I didn't call. At first I was a bit mad about it, but then it wasn't a big deal to me. IT HAPPENS... GET OVER IT. It has happened in the past, and it will happen again in the future with other programs. If you sit around ruminating about it then I feel sorry for anyone who has to work with you when something as ordinary as a call from the OR for a frozen comes up after they told you there wouldn't be one. Things change, mistakes happen, life is not perfect... move past it. I don't see how that says anything about the program. If you want to nit-pick about everything and use it as something derogatory, then maybe you don't want to go there because the hot water in the men's room on the 3rd floor doesn't really get that hot, or one time I heard that they ran out of green beans in the cafeteria. Ridiculous.

DiphallicTerata said:

The same thing happened to me with one of the programs in the DC area when I was applying for residency. I would never had known if I didn't call. At first I was a bit mad about it, but then it wasn't a big deal to me. IT HAPPENS... GET OVER IT. It has happened in the past, and it will happen again in the future with other programs. If you sit around ruminating about it then I feel sorry for anyone who has to work with you when something as ordinary as a call from the OR for a frozen comes up after they told you there wouldn't be one. Things change, mistakes happen, life is not perfect... move past it. I don't see how that says anything about the program. If you want to nit-pick about everything and use it as something derogatory, then maybe you don't want to go there because the hot water in the men's room on the 3rd floor doesn't really get that hot, or one time I heard that they ran out of green beans in the cafeteria. Ridiculous.

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Seriously though, dont you think it is a valid concern for someone applying to residency that Maryland's Chair might pull this again? You are staring at 20 programs and something like this might be enough to pull the trigger to pick an Emory, Georgetown or Duke to fill your quota for this geographic area.

If it bugs someone enough to come and spend the effort to post about it, it is worth at least momentarily addressing.

I dont know the whole story if someone cares to post it.

LADoc00 said:

Seriously though, dont think it is a valid concern for someone applying to residency that Maryland's Chair might pull this again? You are staring at 20 programs and something like this might be enough to pull the trigger to pick an Emory, Georgetown or Duke to fill your quota for this geographic area.

If it bugs someone enough to come and spend the effort to post about it, it is worth at least momentarily addressing.

I dont know the whole story if someone cares to post it.

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The thing is, it was a simple mistake. It wasn't intentional and it has been blown totally out of proportion. There was no malice, and U or Maryland didn't benefit from anyone's "perceived" misfortunes.

Seriously DiphallicTerata and summertime02 chill out. I don't throw darts at a terrapin at night or fantasize about the day that I can stick it to some Maryland grad. And as was suggested, I am not sitting about stewing about this, I merely thought that my point was germane to this discussion and bore mentioning for those applying this year.

My wife and I are both military physicians, and due to intricacies of the military match last year, I had a significantly greater (but still small) chance of deferral than she. I applied to all of the programs within reasonable distance of D.C. to ensure that if the unthinkable happended and I was deferred, we could still match in the same geographic locale. An application to Maryland took the spot of an application to George Washington, and when I finally realized that Maryland was not taking residents, I had to pay the fee to apply to another group of programs in order to send a single application to GW.

And summertime02, you can search my previous posts in which I excoriated Georgetown's program for their disorganization and general incompetence during the application process, so as to see that I don't have some axe to grind with your program.

Frankly, I don't know the quality of the Maryland program. I never got the chance to interview. I would assume it is a good program and turns out competent pathologists due to the general repuatation of the medical school, its location in a major urban center, and the caliber of my fellow residents who graduated from the medical school and have told me that their pathology education was first rate. But the the fact remains that the way the program treated applicants last year was shoddy, and that bears repeating. One never gets a second chance to make a first impression as the saying goes...

When I matched into a military residency, I sent e-mails to every civillian program I had applied to informing them that I was withdrawing my application and not interviewing with them. It was the courteous thing to do and allowed these programs to give my interview slot to another applicant. Had I not done that, I could not dispute program directors who developed negative perceptions regarding my character.

I have not clamored for a monetary refund and I have never spoken disparagingly about the general quality of the program, but the fact remains: in my brief interaction with the program I was treated unfairly and did not receive so much as an apology. So you can reply to this post and further mischaracterize and impugn me, or you can stop trying to defend the indefensible.

When I'm on call and a surgeon tells me to wait around until 2000 for a frozen and my call to the OR at 2030 is answered by a cleaning crew telling me the surgery finished an hour ago, my opinion of the surgeon who did not have the courtesy to call and let me know that I would not be needed is lowered a bit. Then I shrug and go home to my wife.

And at the end of all this, if y'all still take umbrage at my statements, you can take it up with me when we do our month at the Baltimore Medical Examiner's Office. I'll be the guy in Texas Aggie scrubs.

if it is any consolation to the above poster, active duty/ex-Mils may not get the front of the line in academia, but out in private prac they usually get huge props, in fact some groups which ONLY hire ex-Mil, and often these are the most profitable/well entrenched. Funny, I think nearly all of the top 10 or so private groups in Calif. are run/founded by ex-mil people. Will have to tell my partner the PD at Maryland is crapping on officers, sure he will go bonkers...Was last year a mistake OR was the mistake Maryland even having ABP/ACGME accred to begin with??? Lets ponder that.

Considering they let in, by the resident's own admission, 2 FMGs while active duty military applicants were tossed, Id say you are within your rights to kick his butt if you see him.

CAP 2008: Ruckusfest.



adds UofMaryland to the list of pathologists I will never hire from...

No one should be faulted for non-maliciously defending his/her own program.

LADoc00 said:

if it is any consolation to the above poster, active duty/ex-Mils may not get the front of the line in academia, but out in private prac they usually get huge props, in fact some groups which ONLY hire ex-Mil, and often these are the most profitable/well entrenched. Funny, I think nearly all of the top 10 or so private groups in Calif. are run/founded by ex-mil people. Will have to tell my partner the PD at Maryland is crapping on officers, sure he will go bonkers...Was last year a mistake OR was the mistake Maryland even having ABP/ACGME accred to begin with??? Lets ponder that.

Considering they let in, by the resident's own admission, 2 FMGs while active duty military applicants were tossed, Id say you are within your rights to kick his butt if you see him.

CAP 2008: Ruckusfest.



adds UofMaryland to the list of pathologists I will never hire from...

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LOL 2 hours for this? Whatever your gut is recovering from must be hallucinogenic.

Cheers

"Seriously DiphallicTerata and summertime02 chill out. I don't throw darts at a terrapin at night or fantasize about the day that I can stick it to some Maryland grad. And as was suggested, I am not sitting about stewing about this, I merely thought that my point was germane to this discussion and bore mentioning for those applying this year.

And summertime02, you can search my previous posts in which I excoriated Georgetown's program for their disorganization and general incompetence during the application process, so as to see that I don't have some axe to grind with your program.

Frankly, I don't know the quality of the Maryland program. I never got the chance to interview. I would assume it is a good program and turns out competent pathologists due to the general repuatation of the medical school, its location in a major urban center, and the caliber of my fellow residents who graduated from the medical school and have told me that their pathology education was first rate."




Well thought out and intelligent reply... Thanks for admitting that you don't have all (or most) of the facts about the program and that your post is based on one bad experience.

Like I said earlier... other people posting here belong in the teen forums and have yet to post a reply that has any intelligent information whatsoever. I guess that's the risk of a public forum like this.

look familiar diphallic?

LADoc00 said:

look familiar diphallic?

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Wow... you got me.

.

.

QUOTING:
"I know that a vast majority of programs require you to make these missed rotations up before they will sign off on your board application. ...I know for a fact the UMMS program does not require you to make up maternity/paternity leave, but because they allow up to 4-5 months of electitve time they are able give these residents the opportunity to make up any of the requirements needed to be board eligible. I believe that this is a significant perk for the UMMS program."

-------------------------

This post-er had better hope that no one forwards this to the American Board of Pathology. The Board is very explicit in the requirements to be able to sit the exams -- they say how many MONTHS of training you need. You are allowed 4 weeks of vacation a year (48 weeks of work out of 52) and you must do at least one of your years intact (you can't continually flip between 6 months on/6 months off).

Of the specified number of months, the only flexibility is that a portion of them can be spent in "approved training" in pathology rather than in "structured training" or "continuing training" in pathology. They won't buy maternity/paternity leave time as "approved training". The only way that elective time can be used to fix this problem is if it would have otherwise extended beyond the minimal time required by the ABP (48 months for AP/CP; 36 months for AP or CP only).

If this is really from the program administrator AND they are knowingly lying to the Board AND they screwed up in the match last year...