Podiatry salary

dapmp91 said:

I've researched on this, and their seems to be a wide range of salaries, ranging from $70,000-$230,000, this is pretty big, I really would like to know what someone would have to to to maximize his profits, I know the great thing about podiatry is that someone can work as little or as much as they want, thanks guys

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I will focus this on why people make more not less.

Some have stock in the surgi-center where all their ambulatory cases are.

Some sell orthotics to every patient

Some have small pod stores set up w/ products like Crocs, Superfeet, pads, silicon inserts for corns, antifungals....

Some are salaried at high rates at an ortho practice

Some are salaried at high rates because there is a need

If your plan is to get a high paying podiatry job (salary) then my advice to you is to start pod school (if you have not already) learn as much as you can about everything especially billing. When it comes time to get hired, if you know what you are worth and what your potential earnings are based on billing, you will be able to negotiate for more than the person that does not even know that PNA's pay better than bunions.

dapmp91 said:

I've researched on this, and their seems to be a wide range of salaries, ranging from $70,000-$230,000, this is pretty big, I really would like to know what someone would have to to to maximize his profits, I know the great thing about podiatry is that someone can work as little or as much as they want, thanks guys

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Salary differs greatly because training differs greatly. Podiatry has changed quite a bit over the last 20 years. Pods graduating from 3 year surgical residencies usually do quite well.

Krab makes a lot of good points as well. For those in private practice, like any other medical specialty, it's as much a business as it is medicine.

Forgive my ignorance but what does PNA stand for?

Great advice above... there's no easy answer here.

NatCh has posted on this stuff at greater length, and his advice is good. There are also many other pratice management tip groups, magazines, and clubs that you will have available once you start pod school, residency, etc. I'll take a rough crack at the cliff notes...

All pods coming out and getting state licenses now have surgical training. That certainly makes you more versatile and more competent procedurally, but that doesn't necessarily mean more money. Post-op visits don't pay much if anything at all (maybe minimal pay for the x-rays and dressing supplies, but that's it). Also, the surgical procedures themselves pay less than they used to pay.

Therefore, it quickly becomes clear that you want be a private practice owner and do a lot of the basic stuff to make the most money in pod or any other medical field. Make sure to have a smart office manager and great billing staff. Heel pain, nails, diabetic exams, neuromas, etc... x-rays and ultrasounds in the office. Get them in, get them treated, get on to the next patient. It's not that you don't want to do surgery, but it will slow you down if you're driving around to surgery centers and hospitals and doing a lot of post-op dressing changes instead of higher paying and faster cases can limit your income.

The guy with little or even no surgical training who owns of a booming private practice in an area without very many DPMs would probably make more $ than the guy who tries to be a bigshot pod surgeon in a metro area with a lot of other pods. In the end, if you're in it just to make money, you're going into the wrong profession IMO. Health care is more of a way to help people than to get rich. You will make money in health care, but you could get that with fewer years of training in many other fields.

Dmayor22 said:

Forgive my ignorance but what does PNA stand for?

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Partial nail avulsion^... a basic ingrown toenail office procedure that any decent 3rd year pod student knows how to do and can do well. It's a perfect example of how simple stuff pays much higher (per hour) than some of the OR surgeries.

Dmayor22 said:

Forgive my ignorance but what does PNA stand for?

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It's actually P&A (phenol and alcohol) which is a type of matrixectomy.

Many people "think" it's PNA when it's spoken.

Lee

diabeticfootdr said:

It's actually P&A (phenol and alcohol) which is a type of matrixectomy.

Many people "think" it's PNA when it's spoken.

Lee

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there's so many acrynms... it's hard to keep up.

by the way, Lee, Dr. Dial had a baby girl!

diabeticfootdr said:

It's actually P&A (phenol and alcohol) which is a type of matrixectomy.

Many people "think" it's PNA when it's spoken.

Lee

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Good to see you posting again. It is cool to see that you are the director of limb salvage program back in Iowa.

That's great news. Dr. Dial is a great guy and an excellent surgeon. He also has nice perspective on the profession. I'm happy for him.

Lee

Most reliable sources place the figure of an average Podiatrist salary at 120K a year. Forbes listed the profession as one of the best paying fields.

JoeNamaMD said:

Most reliable sources place the figure of an average Podiatrist salary at 120K a year. Forbes listed the profession as one of the best paying fields.

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I saw the Forbes listing, which was strange to me. I spoke to a couple podiatry residents and each have said that the third year residents in their programs receive starting offers around 120k. I do not know what to believe now.

jays2cool4u said:

I saw the Forbes listing, which was strange to me. I spoke to a couple podiatry residents and each have said that the third year residents in their programs receive starting offers around 120k. I do not know what to believe now.

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This is always a tough one. There are many factors that go into salary and salary reports, especially with podiatry. Some reports include part-timers, others have actually included resident salary, and some include only base salaries. In other words, your contract may stipulate that you get a 75K base and then whatever revenue you bring into the practice over 300K, you get a certain percentage. This is common in private practice. These people make well into the six digits. However, with some salary reports, all they see is 75K. Some include pods that recently opened their offices and aren't making a lot as they are in the process of building their practice. And then there is the issue of the huge training discrepancy in the profession. But even still, I know many pods with little or no residency training that are doing very well. They are smart, efficient, hard working, and have very good business sense.

I haven't seen anyone from my residency sign who hasn't stood to make at least mid 100's 1st year out. The exception being those that open their own practices. The most accurate stats I've seen concerning pod salary would have to be the yearly APMA one. I know that someone recently posted info on the new one.

Stafocker posted the following:

Here are some newly released statistics for income of podiatric physicians from the 2007 APMA Podiatric Practice Survey:

1. A dramatic increase in the gross incomes of practice owners was found for 2006. The median gross income in 2006 was $400,000, compared to an estimated $275,000 in 2004.
2. A much higher percentage of members reported gross incomes over $500,000 in 2006 (37%) than in 2004 (20%) and 2001 (14%).
3. Net income in 2006 increased substantially from 2004. The median net income in 2006 was $150,000, compared to an estimated $137,500 in 2004.
4. Net income in 2006 was higher for members with high volumes of total patient visits and for members with board certification from the American Board of Podiatric Surgery (ABPS).
__________________
Source: The American Podiatric Medical Association

I've seen these new APMA stats a bunch on here, but I don't really understand how it works. Can someone explain how gross income increased by $125,000, but the net income only increased by $12,500?

Also could someone explain to me how overhead works? Lets say you gross $300,000 one year and $500,000 the next year. Is your overhead a function of your gross (it stays at a consistent percentage of your gross) or is it more of a constant amount? I'm asking because whenever I head people talk about overhead they always refer to it as a percentage of their gross income, but it seems to me that it would stay fairly constant with rent, equipment, staff salaries, etc... being fairly constant as well. If any practicing pods have input I'd greatly appreciate it.

No one knows anything about overhead? Come on guys, a little help would be greatly appreciated

Tygerm9 said:

No one knows anything about overhead? Come on guys, a little help would be greatly appreciated

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overhead is:

Rent/lease/mortgage for the office space
Utility bill
employee salaries
equipment and supplies

Tygerm9 said:

I've seen these new APMA stats a bunch on here, but I don't really understand how it works. Can someone explain how gross income increased by $125,000, but the net income only increased by $12,500?

Also could someone explain to me how overhead works? Lets say you gross $300,000 one year and $500,000 the next year. Is your overhead a function of your gross (it stays at a consistent percentage of your gross) or is it more of a constant amount? I'm asking because whenever I head people talk about overhead they always refer to it as a percentage of their gross income, but it seems to me that it would stay fairly constant with rent, equipment, staff salaries, etc... being fairly constant as well. If any practicing pods have input I'd greatly appreciate it.

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ill give it a shot....HIDING INCOME!!! perhaps this will even make it onto whiskers bad pod thread! do the math: i would say you're take home on average is 50-60% of what you gross, provided you are an efficient operator. does anyone want to report a 60k increase in salary?!? nope! so, they can do any one of a hundred things including dumping it back into the business (which in all honesty is a smart investment). this can be in the form of expansion or flatscreens that you forget to unload while at the office so you take it home and leave it in your bedroom over night so the lcd doesn't get too cold!!! think about it...

narkotiks said:

this can be in the form of expansion or flatscreens that you forget to unload while at the office so you take it home and leave it in your bedroom over night so the lcd doesn't get too cold!!! think about it...

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You gross income can certainly increase a lot with net going up minimally or even dropping...
I'd imagine most good beginning or growing practices lose $ or make very minimal $ for a couple years. You have to spend money to make money, and it takes time to grow a patient base.

Simple examples would be buying a new machine like (DigiXR, OssaTron, Ultrasound, etc) or some boxes of inventory (BioFreeze, Jill's Gels, Amerigel, etc) for the practice. You "lose" $ initially on the ivestment since those add to overhead, and it may appear that way on the fiscal report for the year when the investments were made. Eventually, you (hopefully) make a whole lot more $ once the inventory is sold or the machine is paid off, but that might not show up until later financial reports.

"Hiding income!" Sheesh, you guys catch on quick!

Overhead tends to be close to a certain amount unless you make some unusual payments in a given month, as Feli said. If your overhead stays the same but you make more, then your overhead percentage goes down.

Also, just because your business made more money, it doesn't mean you have to pay yourself a higher salary. You can leave it in the business, as narkotiks said, but you can do it legitimately without buying a new company Porsche or remote "business office" in the Bahamas. You can just leave the money in the business account. You don't have to spend it.

If you do not need to pay yourself more, then why do it? With every paycheck you also have to pay social security tax, workers' comp tax, FUTA, SHOULDA, WOULDA, COULDA tax and all sorts of payroll taxes, some of which I don't even know who's getting. Keep the money in the business account, and when you need it see if you can make it a business expense and avoid the payroll taxes.

As a private corporation you pay yourself a salary, but you also pay yourself dividends. So say your business made $125,000 more than the previous year, you might only bump your salary by $12,500, but then take more dividends each quarter.

Three things you all need as a business owner: a lawyer, an accountant, and a banker. Get to know each of them very well.

NatCh said:

"Hiding income!" Sheesh, you guys catch on quick!

Overhead tends to be close to a certain amount unless you make some unusual payments in a given month, as Feli said. If your overhead stays the same but you make more, then your overhead percentage goes down.

Also, just because your business made more money, it doesn't mean you have to pay yourself a higher salary. You can leave it in the business, as narkotiks said, but you can do it legitimately without buying a new company Porsche or remote "business office" in the Bahamas. You can just leave the money in the business account. You don't have to spend it.

If you do not need to pay yourself more, then why do it? With every paycheck you also have to pay social security tax, workers' comp tax, FUTA, SHOULDA, WOULDA, COULDA tax and all sorts of payroll taxes, some of which I don't even know who's getting. Keep the money in the business account, and when you need it see if you can make it a business expense and avoid the payroll taxes.

As a private corporation you pay yourself a salary, but you also pay yourself dividends. So say your business made $125,000 more than the previous year, you might only bump your salary by $12,500, but then take more dividends each quarter.

Three things you all need as a business owner: a lawyer, an accountant, and a banker. Get to know each of them very well.

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very good advice about the three importants! although, i think every practice should have at least one dedicated 911 turbo....am i wrong?

narkotiks said:

very good advice about the three importants! although, i think every practice should have at least one dedicated 911 turbo....am i wrong?

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Turbo, normally-aspirated, whatever is the bare minimum for you to be able to haul a nail nipper to the office. You can't exactly work without that nipper, after all.

NatCh said:

Turbo, normally-aspirated, whatever is the bare minimum for you to be able to haul a nail nipper to the office. You can't exactly work without that nipper, after all.

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Geez, maybe I need to be practicing up in OR rather than AZ. Do all the docs in OR have turbo nail nippers??

SportPOD said:

Geez, maybe I need to be practicing up in OR rather than AZ. Do all the docs in OR have turbo nail nippers??

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Personally mine are turbo since I don't like to keep my patients waiting.

Speaking of which, one is sitting out there waiting patiently as I play with you guys...gotta get back to work!

Scholl co2011 is done with biochemistry, hooray!!!! We start Micro/immuno from jan . Oh boy reading all this overhead,expenses, hiding income,stuff makes me so excited and motivated.