Someone enlighten me about US DO v offshore

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

dylantanis

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
60
Reaction score
0
Members do not see this ad.
So I've reading threads in pre-osteo & osteo...
One thread that was interesting to me was that a TUCOM-CA student ragged on his school saying that after 2 yrs of sciences he was left on his own to find quality rotations....that they had some kind of lottery and you choose like top 3 areas in the US...he said he ended up in rotations with a bunch of caribbean students...

Also, I see DO students recommending taking the USMLE Step 1 and rocking them out to get into competitive residencies...

My questions is...if I had to choose between a less established program like TUCOM-CA or TOURO-NY that have issues with their clinicals, is it still a hands down decision that you go US DO?

With the caribbean route...sure you have to do all the work yourself...your school won't really care too much about ya if you fail since you're just an ATM to them...but the end result seems the same...you still have to take the Step 1 and rock them to have a good future as a physician...

Right now I've applied to 13 DO schools & 4 offshore...I applied very late in the application cycle so I'm pretty screwed with schools that had Feb deadlines, since they are probably pretty close to filling all their spots...but I'm in the running for the later deadline schools like the Touros...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
 
to some degree, I think most schools have a sort of lottery-type system. You can't simply pick anything you want. Your school has to have agreements with different hospitals.

I would personally go DO over Caribbean. Honestly, if you do well on your boards, you shouldn't have a problem either way. If you DO go Caribbean, make sure you go to SGU or AUC (last time I checked, those were the only reputable ones).

Edit: as far as being with caribbean students in a rotation, that is simply because your school AND the caribbean school have agreements with the same hospital. It could happen to anyone.
 
Yeah, I too would say US DO hands-down. From what I've been told, it just seems that matching well coming out of a Caribbean school is awfully hard. In contrast, some DO schools have very strong match lists.
 
Yeah, because the D.O. "system" has a number of their own private residencies, only open to D.O.s (although you have to admit, this gives allopathic residency directors a pretty good reason to discriminate against you right there).

It isn't just that you have to rock the boards, the problem with the Carribbean route is that certain specialties are almost completely closed to you. If you have a dream of being a radiologist or specialty surgeon, you probably will never realize that dream as a carribbean grad. (yes, people do manage it, but it's so rare that is almost never happens)

While osteopaths have their own private dermatology, neurosurgery, and a ton of orthopedic surgery spots.
 
I've been involved with many debates about this, and every time people from SGU jump all over me explaining how great it is, etc. Here's my bottom line: 1. If you want to practice in the US, stay in the US for medical school. 2. Yes, schools like SGU aren't the horrible nightmare schools where they wait for your credit to clear, then hang you up to dry, and they also aren't the ones that don't require an MCAT score to apply (though those do exist). 3. I really don't care what is said ... I honestly think that all DO school match lists are better than SGU (and I don't trust their's because they don't show people who didn't match, who are reapplying, who were held back from taking the boards the first time, etc). I mean, look at LECOM-B's first match list from a few years back ... brand new DO school, amazing list. Same with TU-NV. I'd love to see a match list from a first year Caribbean school look anything like that. 4. You live in the Caribbean for 2 years ... and let's all face it, it's a culture shock. You aren't living on an island resort. Now I'm not saying all DO schools are in glamorous locations ... lol like Scranton ... but it's still the US, ya know?? 5. I also think you are safer for clinicals with DO schools.

Bottom line ... if you absolutely must have the MD, go to an ESTABLISHED Caribbean school like SGU, Ross, AUC, or Saba. Honestly don't go to a non established one because that is just trouble. However, I think you're better off on all logical fronts coming from a DO school.
 
If you go offshore, you're lumped in the pool of IMGs / FMGs. If you look at the number of applicants residency programs receive (especially the ROAD specialties) from IMGs / FMGs, it's a-freakin-stonishing, and most tend to apply to INSANE numbers of programs (like every single one).

You're not just in a pool with other Caribbean MDs, you're in a pool with applicants from China, the Middle East, India...all over the world, because practicing as a board-certified physician in the US (usually) requires one to attend an ACGME-accredited residency.

Consequently, many foreign grads have already been through residency in their own country, or they have a PhD to beef up their application, or they've been practicing as a thoracic surgeon in Croatia for 12 yrs and want to do IM in the US instead.

Not that they are all that competitive, and the overwhelming majority (from my experience) simply don't meet the basic applicant requirements, but they shot-gun the process and hope their experience/foreign credentials will overshadow a low USMLE, or the fact they're missing some other crucial part of the application.

Granted, as a DO, depending on the program / specialty / region, the residency coordinator and/or committee will see your COMLEX orange compared to all the USMLE apples and just throw out your app (I've seen that a few times, but again depends on the previously mentioned factors). But that's much less of an issue than working your way to the top of the FMG stack.
 
Thank you very much for your input!

I've applied to 13 DO schools & 4 caribbean....
I know I've applied VERY late in the application cycle for a lot of
DO schools (the Feb. 1 ones...like UMDNJ, PCOM, etc)...but I had to
give it a shot...
I took mcats Jan. 31...so those won't be ready to report until March...

I've applied based on the region of the US that I can handle (I'm from the metro NYC area...so I don't think I can handle places very rural areas)

-PCOM
-UMDNJ
-NYCOM
-TOUROCOM
-TUCOM-CA & NV
-NOVA
-LECOM Erie & Bradenton
-COMP
-SOMA
-UNESOM
-OU-COM
------------------------------
SGU/Ross/AUC/Saba

All I can do now is chew on my nails....
 
homeboy said:
Granted, as a DO, depending on the program / specialty / region, the residency coordinator and/or committee will see your COMLEX orange compared to all the USMLE apples and just throw out your app (I've seen that a few times, but again depends on the previously mentioned factors). But that's much less of an issue than working your way to the top of the FMG stack.
Click to expand...

Plus, as a DO applicant you can still take the USMLE to mitigate this issue.
 
dylantanis said:
Thank you very much for your input!

I've applied to 13 DO schools & 4 caribbean....
I know I've applied VERY late in the application cycle for a lot of
DO schools (the Feb. 1 ones...like UMDNJ, PCOM, etc)...but I had to
give it a shot...
I took mcats Jan. 31...so those won't be ready to report until March...

I've applied based on the region of the US that I can handle (I'm from the metro NYC area...so I don't think I can handle places very rural areas)

-PCOM
-UMDNJ
-NYCOM
-TOUROCOM
-TUCOM-CA & NV
-NOVA
-LECOM Erie & Bradenton
-COMP
-SOMA
-UNESOM
-OU-COM
------------------------------
SGU/Ross/AUC/Saba

All I can do now is chew on my nails....
Click to expand...

Dude, just defer till next year and try for a US allo school. Take it from someone who's gone through the application process and is also a medical school interviewer for their school. I wouldn't even question an applicant why they didn't bother applying for the incoming year if they took the MCAT in Jan.
On the interview trail, I bumped into an offshore M4 applying for psych. 100 programs applied, only 8 interviews. That's insane. My classmate also applying to psych, because she's couple's matching, applied to 50-ish programs. She got over 40 interviews.
 
Forget whether or not offshore is better than USDO, I couldn't stand the heat of the carribean year round. Give me eight months of snow in Erie anytime over a low temperature of 80 degrees.
 
ih8biochem said:
Dude, just defer till next year and try for a US allo school.
Click to expand...

So I guess US DO ain't good enough, eh?

I've met far too many people who became so hung up on the whole "I need to be an MD" bit that it prevented them from becoming docs altogether - they applied MD over and over again and never got in. Some of these people finally came to their senses and decided to go DO, some went to Mexico or the Caribbean because they "needed the MD", and some gave up on becoming docs altogether. As far as I'm concerned, all of them wasted their time because if they had just applied DO from the outset they likely would have gotten in on the first try. Instead, of course, they proceeded to waste several years of their lives and thousands of dollars in app fees in a fruitless effort to "score the MD".

Is the MD really worth putting yourself through that much additional heartache?
 
dylantanis said:
I know I've applied VERY late in the application cycle for a lot of
DO schools (the Feb. 1 ones...like UMDNJ, PCOM, etc)...but I had to
give it a shot...
I took mcats Jan. 31...so those won't be ready to report until March...

I've applied based on the region of the US that I can handle (I'm from the metro NYC area...so I don't think I can handle places very rural areas)

-PCOM
-UMDNJ
-NYCOM
-TOUROCOM
-TUCOM-CA & NV
-NOVA
-LECOM Erie & Bradenton
-COMP
-SOMA
-UNESOM
-OU-COM
------------------------------
Click to expand...

JaggerPlate said:
lol like Scranton ... but it's still the US, ya know??However, I think you're better off on all logical fronts coming from a DO school.
Click to expand...

👍

And hey...I checked out that Allopathic Scranton school, ~ 2 hrs from my place. You get $80k to start the first class, but you share classes in old coal-cracker community college for 2 years before the building is built (it's only blue-prints right now!). The anatomy professor said during interviews that he basically won't do anything - the students would have to teach themselves what to do. When someone asked one of the administrators how many students/cad, "Let's see...there's 60 students/class, and (looking around the room) 10 tables...so...6 students?"

Thanks, but....um...I think osteo fits me a heck of a lot better anyway...

ih8biochem said:
Dude, just defer till next year and try for a US allo school. Take it from someone who's gone through the application process and is also a medical school interviewer for their school. I wouldn't even question an applicant why they didn't bother applying for the incoming year if they took the MCAT in Jan.
Click to expand...

👍

Seriously...just wait a few more months, re-group, save up $, and possibility re-test if you need to. Come out in May full-force and rip it up!

Besides, check out this summary of schools that don't even tend to consider January mcats. Is it worth dropping all of that money to limit your options anyway?

dozitgetchahi said:
Instead, of course, they proceeded to waste several years of their lives and thousands of dollars in app fees in a fruitless effort to "score the MD".

Is the MD really worth putting yourself through that much additional heartache?
Click to expand...

👍 (and additional $$$$$$$ in applications and lost compounded interest)
 
Post in a Caribbean forum and you'll get pro Caribbean. But your post here is obviously going to raise all the pre-osteopathic students' hackles and they're going to defend the choice they made.

Here's my subjective opinion on USDO vs. Caribbean MD: it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.

Don't let anyone tell you can't do a particular specialty as an IMG—that's just complete B.S.

If you get accepted to anywhere this year, the wait-until-next-year suggestion is absurd. There's no guarantee you'll be accepted to a USMD program.

You really ought to ask your question over at valuemd.com in the AUC or St. George forum to get both sides of the story.

Good Luck.
 
nevinleiby said:
👍

And hey...I checked out that Allopathic Scranton school, ~ 2 hrs from my place. You get $80k to start the first class, but you share classes in old coal-cracker community college for 2 years before the building is built (it's only blue-prints right now!). The anatomy professor said during interviews that he basically won't do anything - the students would have to teach themselves what to do. When someone asked one of the administrators how many students/cad, "Let's see...there's 60 students/class, and (looking around the room) 10 tables...so...6 students?"

Thanks, but....um...I think osteo fits me a heck of a lot better anyway...



👍

Seriously...just wait a few more months, re-group, save up $, and possibility re-test if you need to. Come out in May full-force and rip it up!

Besides, check out this summary of schools that don't even tend to consider January mcats. Is it worth dropping all of that money to limit your options anyway?



👍 (and additional $$$$$$$ in applications and lost compounded interest)
Click to expand...

LECOM is opening a branch in Scranton.
 
Boges said:
Post in a Caribbean forum and you'll get pro Caribbean. But your post here is obviously going to raise all the pre-osteopathic students' hackles and they're going to defend the choice they made.

Here's my subjective opinion on USDO vs. Caribbean MD: it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.

Don't let anyone tell you can't do a particular specialty as an IMG—that's just complete B.S.

If you get accepted to anywhere this year, the wait-until-next-year suggestion is absurd. There's no guarantee you'll be accepted to a USMD program.

You really ought to ask your question over at valuemd.com in the AUC or St. George forum to get both sides of the story.

Good Luck.
Click to expand...

This forum is wayyy more neutral than ValueMD. They are well known for their FMG bias. Of course pre-DO is going to be bias for DO, but way less bias than they will be for FMG. And no, it's realistic to think that you will be restricted from certain specialtes as an FMG. DOs get around this bc of AOA residencies, but check the IMG rates for ENT, Plastics, derm, Ortho ... it's dim. Check out AOA residencies in those fields/ACGME matches.
 
JaggerPlate said:
LECOM is opening a branch in Scranton.
Click to expand...

Really? That's insane!

Erie, Bradenton, Seton Hill ('2013) ~3 hrs from Erie, Scranton (2013) ~ 4 hrs from Erie, and another Scranton? It's not that big of a town!!
 
nevinleiby said:
Really? That's insane!

Erie, Bradenton, Seton Hill ('2013) ~3 hrs from Erie, Scranton (2013) ~ 4 hrs from Erie, and another Scranton? It's not that big of a town!!
Click to expand...

Wait ... I thought, maybe not though. I could be confused about the Seton Hill. I could have sworn a med school was opening up in Scranton and I thought it was DO. Maybe I've just been watching too much office.
 
Nope. Positive that an MD school is starting in Scranton this year. I have the thumb drive and the free-bee bags on the wall to prove it! LECOM is in Seton-Hill and very similar to LECOM-Brad except its run out of Seton-Hill's campus
 
Boges said:
.
Don't let anyone tell you can't do a particular specialty as an IMG—that's just complete B.S.
Good Luck.
Click to expand...

I'm saying an IMG can't do neurosurgery, ortho, integrated plastics, dermatology, ENT, urology, or rads just like you "can't" win the lottery. It is possible to win the lottery, and the 5 year SGU match list (which is what, 2000 graduates assuming average of 400 a year?) does have about 1 person pulling off most of those specialities I listed at least once.

But 1-2 out of 2000 are is such a huge barrier that if your heart is set on on of those specialties, and there is any possible way to get U.S. osteopathic or allopathic, you should do what you need to, even if it takes several years. Heck, with osteopathic, you could retake all the courses you scored poor grades in the first time, and they won't count the first attempts in your GPA.

This is the reason I turned my Carribbean spot down 2 years ago, and stayed the course trying to get U.S. allopathic. Some of those specialties I listed sound pretty cool, and I realized that if I went Carribbean, studied hard, and got a 260 on the boards and a perfect Carribbean GPA...I wouldn't be allowed in. I'm good at school and taking tests, despite my original trouble in undergrad. But, I don't have the networking skills needed to be the one Carribbean grad that does get in.

But if I went U.S. allopathic, even to the lowest ranked school, and got that same 260 and a perfect GPA with membership in AOA, I would have a 95% chance of matching any of those specialties. Actually, possibly higher...on the national match statistics, you don't see any U.S. seniors with 260s fail to match in most specialties.

And, that's such an unfair situation to be in : a 260 is just as hard to get from Carribbean as it is in the U.S. I'd be highly resentful all third and fourth year, and would probably come across that way in interviews for residency...because the whole time, I'd know I was going to get a bottom of the barrel match because of the name of my school. It's a good thing I don't have to do that, assuming I don't screw up and lose my spot.
 
Last edited:
thanks for the replies guys...

i just wanted to mention that i was NOT speaking in GENERAL sense...caribb vs. US DO....

I was taking the very specific situation that if I got into a newer
DO school that has been having issues with their clinicals such as
TUCOM-CA....is it worth it?

obviously if i got into a more established DO school I'd be in heaven...but
it worried me to hear a TUCOM-CA student talk about his rotations and being left high and dry his last two years

but it seems no matter how bad a US DO school is it seems its in my best interest to go to it over an established caribb school.......
 
dylantanis said:
it worried me to hear a TUCOM-CA student talk about his rotations and being left high and dry his last two years
Click to expand...

I know the post your talking about and I would caution you to keep in mind that is one person's opinion.

I have two friends at the NV campus and one dislikes it and the other feels it's given him great opportunities. The first is not the best at networking and is more focused on just knowing his stuff. The later is great at networking and very very hard working but also knows his material. From my observation I would say the situation is largely what you make of it. You could go to one of the more established DO schools, do rotations at a great hospital and learn nothing.

Another thing people mentioned but I would bring up again is the fact that the match lists out of the Caribbean are not all inclusive of the students who started there. Most of the DO schools have more than 90% of their class graduate and those are who you see in the match lists. I don't know what the attrition rate for SGU or AUC is but I doubt its above 90%.

The other thing is the matches. I would echo what someone did earlier that you would be grouped in with FMG's. While its never impossible it is highly unprobable to get into the really competitive specialties. The newer DO schools may not have as impressive of match lists as the more established schools but their graduates can rotate and apply for the SAME DO residencies and thus have more doors open to them.

All in all, it is what you make it.👍
 
dylantanis said:
obviously if i got into a more established DO school I'd be in heaven...but
it worried me to hear a TUCOM-CA student talk about his rotations and being left high and dry his last two years
Click to expand...

Get more than just one data point, if possible.

but it seems no matter how bad a US DO school is it seems its in my best interest to go to it over an established caribb school.......
Click to expand...

I don't really like absolute statements, but my tendency would be to stay in the states. I personally wouldn't seriously consider attending a Caribbean medical school until I had exhausted all options in the US. This could mean different things to different people, however.

TeamZissou said:
All in all, it is what you make it.👍
Click to expand...

I tend to agree. Appropriate effort, good planning, and the willingness to take full responsibility for your journey and career certainly counts for a lot, but one also needs to take into account the baseline environment/setting in which one sets him or herself. That can also make a huge difference, depending on one's personal goals and aspirations. As a country we tend to be very meritocratic, but the reality is that the confluence of time, place, opportunity, and other factors outside of our control do matter.
 
While I agree that it's difficult to match into some of the specialty fields as an IMG, I think it's just as difficult as a D.O. to make it into one of those same specialties. Mind you, I'm referring to ACGME residencies.

Regarding AOA residencies: If you don't complete ACGME residency, you can't qualify for board certification. Maybe that's a minor point to some, but if you set up shop where there are lots of other competitors, maybe it's something to consider. Other than that, yes, a D.O. definitely has those AOA spots there just for them.

Surgical specialties were mentioned. General surgery residencies can most certainly be had by IMGs and that can lead to specialty fellowships. In fact, there's a board certified PRS guy on staff at UCLA who graduated from AUC:
http://www.uclahealth.org/body.cfm?xyzpdqabc=0&id=479&action=detail&ref=22080
Sure, he's one of the few that was able to achieve that and I know I'm only giving one example, but, again, it can be done.

Singling out one particular specialty, if you really want PRS and you're a D.O., you'll have to go AOA. At least I can't dig up any D.O.'s who did an ACGME PRS but maybe someone else knows of an example.

Also, I suggested seeking opinions from the valuemd forum because I think you should hear both sides of the argument. "Wayyy" more biased or not is beside the point, there's going to be some value to hear opinions from people who are actually going or have gone through a Caribbean program.

Perhaps the devil is in the details because I think you can make either USDO or Caribbean MD work. And I am talking about a Caribbean school that's accredited in all 50 states.

Best of luck to all—I'm sure we have all made the choice that going to work best for ourselves. So smoke 'em if you got 'em.
 
Last edited:
Boges said:
Regarding AOA residencies: If you don't complete ACGME residency, you can't qualify for board certification.
Click to expand...

You can't qualify for ABM certification, but if you complete an AOA residency you can be ABOM certified. It's still board certification.
 
tkim said:
You can't qualify for ABM certification, but if you complete an AOA residency you can be ABOM certified. It's still board certification.
Click to expand...

Indeed. But it's certainly a different board.

So let me make that more clear: you won't be board certified by the same board as all your MD peers. And like I said before, maybe that's not a issue for you or maybe it is.
 
Boges said:
Indeed. But it's certainly a different board.

So let me make that more clear: you won't be board certified by the same board as all your MD peers. And like I said before, maybe that's not a issue for you or maybe it is.
Click to expand...

Not really gonna affect my ability to treat patients. So yea, it's not an issue for me.

Not like there are drones of DO's struggling to find patients to treat. (Then again, I am in a DO friendly state).
 
Boges said:
Indeed. But it's certainly a different board.

So let me make that more clear: you won't be board certified by the same board as all your MD peers. And like I said before, maybe that's not a issue for you or maybe it is.
Click to expand...

You will be board certified by the same board (as if that matters) if you go to an MD residency. The only time you wouldn't do an MD residency as a DO is if you're choosing a very competitive specialty - a choice IMGs don't need to worry about making, since they have no point of entry for the very competitive specialties. In other words, your point is pointless.
 
Boges said:
Indeed. But it's certainly a different board.

So let me make that more clear: you won't be board certified by the same board as all your MD peers. And like I said before, maybe that's not a issue for you or maybe it is.
Click to expand...

So you don't know. I certainly don't. But you definitely don't. This 'maybe an issue or not' is a bogeyman. Please.
 
goosedander said:
You will be board certified by the same board (as if that matters) if you go to an MD residency. The only time you wouldn't do an MD residency as a DO is if you're choosing a very competitive specialty - a choice IMGs don't need to worry about making, since they have no point of entry for the very competitive specialties. In other words, your point is pointless.
Click to expand...

We were originally talking about "competitive specialties" and I assumed that carried through to the following posts.
 
tkim said:
So you don't know. I certainly don't. But you definitely don't. This 'maybe an issue or not' is a bogeyman. Please.
Click to expand...

It was brought to my attention by a D.O. plastic surgeon that I shadowed who felt that it was an issue for him. Maybe a bogeyman but real enough that he talked about it to me.

As for me, you're right, I don't know. Since you "certainly don't" and since I heard it from the horses mouth so to speak, it might be an issue to consider.
 
Boges said:
We were originally talking about "competitive specialties" and I assumed that carried through to the following posts.
Click to expand...

You're not getting into a competitive specialty as an IMG, so I don't understand why it's a relevant comparison.
 
I just want to remind everyone that the OP isn't interested in DO vs. Caribbean medical schools, or MD vs. DO, as a general comparison. This is an issue of attending a newer osteopathic medical school vs. attending a Caribbean medical school. The OP has no problem with the DO route.
 
Interesting question. Personally, I'd much rather put up with 2 years of being "abandoned" by my school's administration during the clinical years in Cali than move out of the country, move back to the country, and then be faced with the enormous burden that is being an IMG/FMG trying to get a good residency spot.
 
goosedander said:
You're not getting into a competitive specialty as an IMG, so I don't understand why it's a relevant comparison.
Click to expand...

That's not true, either.

Look, there are many factors regarding getting into competitive specialties, whatever those are.

If you have your heart set on a supercompetitive specialty, get into a med school with a residency in that specialty so you can from *day one* do all the right things, and network like crazy. Even then, there will be forces out of your control that may prevent you from getting into that specialty.

You may not be smart enough, you may not make enough of an impression to get a spot. People may not like you.

Quibling about IMG versus DO is pointless. Stop spewing misinformation.
 
Boges said:
uh, ok.
Click to expand...

Don't fool yourself man. Things are only going to get worse for IMGs with the current US med school expansion.

Take your own advice and see what the people in the SGU forum on ValueMD are saying. 95% are saying to stay in the US for medical school if you have the option. New school or not.

The carib schools are going to soon become de facto primary care factories. Even more than they already are. Even things like anesthesiology, well known as the derm of the caribs, are getting increasingly shut off. The IMGs aren't getting interviews.

But whatever. I don't need to worry about it.
 
goosedander said:
Don't fool yourself man. Things are only going to get worse for IMGs with the current US med school expansion.

Take your own advice and see what the people in the SGU forum on ValueMD are saying. 95% are saying to stay in the US for medical school if you have the option. New school or not.

The carib schools are going to soon become de facto primary care factories. Even more than they already are. Even things like anesthesiology, well known as the derm of the caribs, are getting increasingly shut off. The IMGs aren't getting interviews.

But whatever. I don't need to worry about it.
Click to expand...

You go get 'em tiger!
 
Boges said:
Indeed. But it's certainly a different board.

So let me make that more clear: you won't be board certified by the same board as all your MD peers. And like I said before, maybe that's not a issue for you or maybe it is.
Click to expand...

So you'll be the pissed off/hate my life doc certified by the american board of family medicine instead of the american osteopathic college of dermatology ... yeah, that would make me feel better too. BTW, being 'board certified' is simply that ... board certified. You aren't misrepresenting yourself, you are certified, it won't make you any less competitive in an area unless having a DO made you less competitive in the first place.
 
JaggerPlate said:
So you'll be the pissed off/hate my life doc certified by the american board of family medicine instead of the american osteopathic college of dermatology ... yeah, that would make me feel better too. BTW, being 'board certified' is simply that ... board certified. You aren't misrepresenting yourself, you are certified, it won't make you any less competitive in an area unless having a DO made you less competitive in the first place.
Click to expand...

I guess you're the expert. Good luck in the application process next cycle.

I pointed out a few facts and added that they may or may not mean anything in your decision. And I didn't say I was going to the Caribbean.

I'm not quite sure why you had to chime in and beat a dead horse but I think your comparison of a guy who could make DO derm would only land FM if he instead came from the Caribbean is not likely. Someone like that is probably pretty motivated.

Also, regarding board certification only mattering where having a DO degree might make you less competitive: that was my point—it might matter to you if, as a DO, you're not going to be ABMS certified unless you do an ACGME residency. I brought it up because a PRS DO in my city told me that he felt it was a hinderance. So, I guess where I live, being PRS DO makes you less competitive.



If you have something more to say to me about it then please PM me. Otherwise, let's move on.
 
Last edited:
JaggerPlate said:
So you'll be the pissed off/hate my life doc certified by the american board of family medicine instead of the american osteopathic college of dermatology ... yeah, that would make me feel better too. BTW, being 'board certified' is simply that ... board certified. You aren't misrepresenting yourself, you are certified, it won't make you any less competitive in an area unless having a DO made you less competitive in the first place.
Click to expand...

I agree, this is a way off base comparison. Also, its very misleading to suggest that someone at valuemd would recommend going to a U.S. program over Carib when it's very well known that most on that forum are recommending U.S. MD programs, NOT U.S Osteopathic programs.

One thing not mentioned, and I know I am beating a dead horse by saying this, but I'll still recommend it anyways is that the OP should consider their personal philosophy for health care, and compare it to Osteopathic and Allopathic approaches. Some osteopaths will tell you that this matters not, and argue that the differences are non-existent or minimal but I think its important, so I recommend to the OP that you at least think about it if you haven't already considered this.....
 
Boges said:
I guess you're the expert. Good luck in the application process next cycle.

I pointed out a few facts and added that they may or may not mean anything in your decision. And I didn't say I was going to the Caribbean.

I'm not quite sure why you had to chime in and beat a dead horse but I think your comparison of a guy who could make DO derm would only land FM if he instead came from the Caribbean is not likely. Someone like that is probably pretty motivated.

Also, regarding board certification only mattering where having a DO degree might make you less competitive: that was my point—it might matter to you if, as a DO, you're not going to be ABMS certified unless you do an ACGME residency. I brought it up because a PRS DO in my city told me that he felt it was a hinderance. So, I guess where I live, being PRS DO makes you less competitive.



If you have something more to say to me about it then please PM me. Otherwise, let's move on.
Click to expand...

I don't care to discuss it at all. You don't see my (and clearly others) point, and I don't want to get into it.
 
DrFraud said:
I agree, this is a way off base comparison. Also, its very misleading to suggest that someone at valuemd would recommend going to a U.S. program over Carib when you know very well that most are recommending U.S. MD programs, NOT U.S Osteopathic programs.

One thing not mentioned, and I know I am beating a dead horse by saying this, but I'll still recommend it anyways is that the OP should consider their personal philosophy for health care, and compare it to Osteopathic and Allopathic. Some osteopaths will tell you that this matters not, but I think its important, so I recommend that you at least think about it if you haven't already considered this.....
Click to expand...

Oh look who's back!!! Good to see you keep logging back on to kill these threads. Congrats. Let's just lock it now and save some time. And the example works ... I could explain how, but not to someone who refers to osteopathic physicians as osteopaths just to be an *******. Bye.
 
JaggerPlate said:
Bottom line ... if you absolutely must have the MD, go to an ESTABLISHED Caribbean school like SGU, Ross, AUC, or Saba. Honestly don't go to a non established one because that is just trouble. However, I think you're better off on all logical fronts coming from a DO school.
Click to expand...


Before you get too upset with me, I actually think part of your advice was pretty useful, fair, and valid....
 
DrFraud said:
Before you get too upset with me, I actually think part of your advice was pretty useful, fair, and valid....
Click to expand...

If it makes you feel any better, I still think it's an absolute last resort. It's if you absolutely have to go, make sure to go to one of those. I'd personally just hang up the towel or do whatever I could to get into a US medical school. The Caribbean is a last ditch option when all other options are exhausted ... even if it is at one of the 'big 4.'
 
I appreciate the feedback guys...

I'll be paying for my medical education and therefore I need to see a distinct advantage of going to a US D.O. school...MD...DO...I could care less...in the end I want to be a positive force in this world...

For instance, Saba is like $9K/semester...which is definitely cheaper than D.O. schools...
Ideally, I'd like to stay in the NYC area...my wife is starting her master's in architecture in new jersey...thus is I get accepted to UMDNJ or PCOM, I'd totally GO! I'm quite familiar with the UMDNJ umbrella as well as I did my post bacc at Drexel, so I'm very familiar with PCOM...

But if I get into Touro-COM...I'm not sure...Its an unproven school...I have no clue where they're going to do their rotations...

Now if I end up getting into a DO school that is in FL, AZ, OH, or CA...it'll be tough...i would have to choose a school that had rotations in PA/NJ/NYC...

On top of that...sounds like I have to take USMLEs in order to get certain allopathic residencies...
So is the advantage then that DOs have their own DO residencies? And if so why do I see a lot of threads with DOs saying to take the USMLE along with the COMLEX?

Versus...Saba...I go to a crappy rock for 5 semesters starting in May, done by Dec. 2010....study for STep 1...start rotations in the summer of 2011

Am I complete idiot in my train of thought?
Right now I'm sort of thinking...if I don't get into one of the better known, established DO schools that it might be better for me to go to a well known NY/CA approved offshore school?
Is that stupid?
 
dylantanis said:
I appreciate the feedback guys...

I'll be paying for my medical education and therefore I need to see a distinct advantage of going to a US D.O. school...MD...DO...I could care less...in the end I want to be a positive force in this world...

For instance, Saba is like $9K/semester...which is definitely cheaper than D.O. schools...
Ideally, I'd like to stay in the NYC area...my wife is starting her master's in architecture in new jersey...thus is I get accepted to UMDNJ or PCOM, I'd totally GO! I'm quite familiar with the UMDNJ umbrella as well as I did my post bacc at Drexel, so I'm very familiar with PCOM...

But if I get into Touro-COM...I'm not sure...Its an unproven school...I have no clue where they're going to do their rotations...

Now if I end up getting into a DO school that is in FL, AZ, OH, or CA...it'll be tough...i would have to choose a school that had rotations in PA/NJ/NYC...

On top of that...sounds like I have to take USMLEs in order to get certain allopathic residencies...
So is the advantage then that DOs have their own DO residencies? And if so why do I see a lot of threads with DOs saying to take the USMLE along with the COMLEX?

Versus...Saba...I go to a crappy rock for 5 semesters starting in May, done by Dec. 2010....study for STep 1...start rotations in the summer of 2011

Am I complete idiot in my train of thought?
Right now I'm sort of thinking...if I don't get into one of the better known, established DO schools that it might be better for me to go to a well known NY/CA approved offshore school?
Is that stupid?
Click to expand...

I can tell you for sure if you would like to do rotations in PA that this is out of the question if you go Carib. At present, PA does not allow Carib. students to do any rotations there. However, If you go to a reputable Carib. program, you are usually eligible to apply to residency programs there.

As far as getting a good allopathic residency, one key regardless if you are DO or IMG is getting a high USMLE score. I cannot comment on how good different DO programs do this but I can say that Carib programs are very focused and geared towards USMLE preparation in their curriculum.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

S
Interesting Take - Canadian MD vs US DO
Replies
2
Views
1K
sky778
S
L
Can someone demystify this for me lol?
Replies
20
Views
2K
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
L
PCOM GA called to tell me what they liked about my app?!
Replies
4
Views
150
littlemiss0308
L
JigsandBones
(UNE online) v CC to finish pre reqs and degree
Replies
4
Views
353
JigsandBones
JigsandBones
Ho0v-man
DO vs Carib MD podcast episode
Replies
3
Views
905
Ho0v-man
Ho0v-man
Top