LOW undergraduate GPA, HIGH graduate GPA?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
M

mrjtang

Full Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Points
0
  1. Pre-Pharmacy
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
This is my first year applying for pharmacy school.
My undergraduate GPA was: 3.359

I completed a graduate program (Master's) in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, earning graduate GPA of 3.968. (it was a 1 year program!)

I have searched the forums, but I haven't came across whether or not pharmacy schools consider graduate GPAs. I know for medical school, undergrad GPAs are separate from grad GPAs - undergrad GPA seems to be more important.

Does anyone have an answer how pharm schools look at this?
 
It's going to be added into PharmCAS... so it'll be averaged out against all your other grades. It'll receive no special treatment, AFAIK, being a graduate program specifically. it WILL enhance your application also, but in terms of actual GPA, if you're applying to a PharmCAS-using school, it'll just get slopped into everything else.
 
are you speaking from experience?
 
mrjtang said:
are you speaking from experience?
Click to expand...

I'm speaking from experience with how PharmCAS calculates GPA... It's all one cumulative PharmCAS GPA, then broken down into Science, Mathematics... Not undergraduate/graduate. When you do your PharmCAS, (an exhaustive, 3-4 hour long process if you're lucky...) you'll be asked about all of your postsecondary education, like community college, college, and graduate work.

I am not saying your upward trend won't be recognized, because it absolutely will, but not necessarily on PharmCAS. I don't think I'm wrong, but I am sure someone will have more to add on the subject in the morning. =]

Oh, and I don't know if I'd consider 3.3 UG GPA to be LOW.

LOW is 2.6/2.7 territory.
 
Last edited:
mrjtang said:
This is my first year applying for pharmacy school.
My undergraduate GPA was: 3.359

I completed a graduate program (Master's) in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, earning graduate GPA of 3.968. (it was a 1 year program!)

I have searched the forums, but I haven't came across whether or not pharmacy schools consider graduate GPAs. I know for medical school, undergrad GPAs are separate from grad GPAs - undergrad GPA seems to be more important.

Does anyone have an answer how pharm schools look at this?
Click to expand...

Having done this PharmCAS thing for last 3 years, Passion is right. Your GPA will be broken into so many categories and subjects.

Example:

GPA Categories: Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, Senior, Post Baccalaureate, Cum. Undergrad, Graduate, Professional, and Overall GPAs.

For each categories, it will also show the GPAs for Science, Non-Science, Math, and the Total.

At the bottom, GPAs are broken down to specific classes: Biochemistry, Biology & Other Life Sciences, Organic Chemistry, Inorganic Chemistry, Physics, Other Science, Math, Social/Behavioral Science, and Microbiology GPAs.

You will know what I'm talking about after receiving the PharmCAS GPA calculations. Those who applied through PharmCAS before should know exactly what I described above.

Yes, pharmacy schools will see both your undergraduate and Graduate GPAs.

Good luck with the application process.
 
Last edited:
Sweet, thanks for the replies. Does anyone know anyone that has applied to pharmacy school before and after earning a MS?
 
mrjtang said:
Sweet, thanks for the replies. Does anyone know anyone that has applied to pharmacy school before and after earning a MS?
Click to expand...

I think you are in good shape. My undergrad GPA was pretty average/unimpressive and I rocked my Master's in Public Health. It will give you a small boost in your GPA, and in my experience it WILL help you during applications. Rub your masters in their faces if you have to. Remember you are competing with a bunch of 20 year olds, pharmacy schools will appreciate that you can rock a masters in biochem.
 
yeah; one of my classmates, BS/MS program, going to ucsf
mrjtang said:
Sweet, thanks for the replies. Does anyone know anyone that has applied to pharmacy school before and after earning a MS?
Click to expand...
 
Hey guys,

So I'm reviving this thread because I'm considering pursuing a similar venture. I'm gonna be straightup here, here are the numbers (don't come at me too hard, there is a very good reason for my meager numbers):

Undergrad GPA: 2.73

I took the PCAT first time around. Numbers:

Verbal: 409, 63%
Bio: 414 69%
Read Comp: 391 34%
Quant: 420 82%
Chem: 422 81%
COMPOSITE 70%

-I do have one research project that I presented at ACS (American Chemical Society)
-Same research project was presented at a local university "conference" of sorts
-I've been volunteering teaching underpriviledged kids for the last 4 years.
-I've been working for less than a year in my undergrad career.
- I have two stellar LOR's from professors (one science, one non science, I did well in both classes) Ironically, one was from a composition class professor.

Based on what I just mentionned, I know I won't get in. My GPA and PCAT don't support that.

Now, my question is, yeah, I messed up my undergrad. That much I know. I want to complete a masters to turn things around and get into pharmacy school. Is this a good idea? Should I retake my PCAT if I improve my graduate GPA?

I can arrange for another LOR from a co-worker (she left, now works for the Rotary Club). She says she'd be willing to write me an LOR if I'd like.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
projektvertx said:
Hey guys,

So I'm reviving this thread because I'm considering pursuing a similar venture. I'm gonna be straightup here, here are the numbers (don't come at me too hard, there is a very good reason for my meager numbers):

Undergrad GPA: 2.73

I took the PCAT first time around. Numbers:

Verbal: 409, 63%
Bio: 414 69%
Read Comp: 391 34%
Quant: 420 82%
Chem: 422 81%
COMPOSITE 70%
Click to expand...

If you do decide to study a masters degree before proceeding to pharmacy school, it's quite possible for your entire cumulative GPA to be pulled up to a 3.0 if you study hard. So that's a big "plus" toward your idea.

Your PCAT needs to go up. Since you "messed up" in the past, you should demonstrate convincingly that you can and will succeed in pharmacy school. So tying into what I said before, you need to get a high graduate GPA and at least an 80 PCAT. Right now your reading comprehension is ugly.

Of course let me qualify all this by saying that this is all touch and go. You "could" get into pharmacy school with lesser stats than what I'm suggesting but I feel your chances would definitely be better by following my plan.

projektvertx said:
-I do have one research project that I presented at ACS (American Chemical Society)
-Same research project was presented at a local university "conference" of sorts
-I've been volunteering teaching underpriviledged kids for the last 4 years.
-I've been working for less than a year in my undergrad career.
- I have two stellar LOR's from professors (one science, one non science, I did well in both classes) Ironically, one was from a composition class professor.
Click to expand...

Just keep doing what you're doing for extracurriculars looks good here.

projektvertx said:
Based on what I just mentionned, I know I won't get in. My GPA and PCAT don't support that.
Click to expand...

As you are right now it's extremely unlikely. If you make the suggested amends, it's quite possible. I would say that with a strong personal statement and relevant masters (MA in History for example would not help) you would have a good shot at entering at least a mid tier program.

projektvertx said:
Now, my question is, yeah, I messed up my undergrad. That much I know. I want to complete a masters to turn things around and get into pharmacy school. Is this a good idea? Should I retake my PCAT if I improve my graduate GPA?

I can arrange for another LOR from a co-worker (she left, now works for the Rotary Club). She says she'd be willing to write me an LOR if I'd like.
Click to expand...

It is possible to turn things around and have a decent/good shot at pharmacy school with a RELEVANT masters, at least science based. As you know it takes time, determination and will be difficult. However, the good news is pharmacy schools will take your efforts into consideration if you persevere and truly do well.
 
projektvertx said:
Hey guys,

So I'm reviving this thread because I'm considering pursuing a similar venture. I'm gonna be straightup here, here are the numbers (don't come at me too hard, there is a very good reason for my meager numbers):

Undergrad GPA: 2.73

I took the PCAT first time around. Numbers:

Verbal: 409, 63%
Bio: 414 69%
Read Comp: 391 34%
Quant: 420 82%
Chem: 422 81%
COMPOSITE 70%

-I do have one research project that I presented at ACS (American Chemical Society)
-Same research project was presented at a local university "conference" of sorts
-I've been volunteering teaching underpriviledged kids for the last 4 years.
-I've been working for less than a year in my undergrad career.
- I have two stellar LOR's from professors (one science, one non science, I did well in both classes) Ironically, one was from a composition class professor.

Based on what I just mentionned, I know I won't get in. My GPA and PCAT don't support that.

Now, my question is, yeah, I messed up my undergrad. That much I know. I want to complete a masters to turn things around and get into pharmacy school. Is this a good idea? Should I retake my PCAT if I improve my graduate GPA?

I can arrange for another LOR from a co-worker (she left, now works for the Rotary Club). She says she'd be willing to write me an LOR if I'd like.
Click to expand...

if you apply broadly you will get in somewhere. don't let people from this ridiculous forum deter you. apply right now and you'll see. apply to master's programs as a backup. every year that goes by is potentially a year of salary.
 
Honestly, I don't think your PCAT score is low at all, besides the reading comp. I do understand, however, that you need a high PCAT to make up for the GPA. But your PCAT, by itself, is really good. My PCAT score is 58 percentile and I have recieved couple of interviews already. My GPA, however, is over 3.4, so maybe the GPA overshadowed the PCAT a little, but still, I think you should apply to some pharmacy programs before going through a master's program. In addition, you have a nice resume. By going into master's only to increase your grades will cost you time and money so, personally, I feel you should apply to some pharmacy programs first. I think you might be surprised and end up saving time and money.

As an alternative for picking up your grades, you could do what I did to pick up my scince GPA. I just took some extra science classes even though they ewren't prereqs because pharmcas takes them all into account and will add them to your GPA. If you can get straight A's on maybe about 4 or 5 classes (much less than a Master's program which is typically 60 credits) I think you can get your GPA over 3.0 without having to go through a masters which has a thesis portion ( = extra work).

I hope this helps! Good luck!! 🙂
 
I had an undergraduate GPA of 2.91, and I am currently in a Masters program (Biochem) with a 3.6 GPA, while working full time on my thesis and taking a few last prereqs. (I've gotten my overall GPA to just about a 3.0, which even with grad school is a difficult task since undergrad is so many credits). I also have years of research experience as well as a few different pharmacy experiences. My composite PCAT was 88. I have gotten into 6 pharmacy programs thus far, and more than just new and candidate schools.

I would suggest retaking classes and taking extra classes to help boost your GPA. If you really want to do a Masters, some schools offer a Masters in Pharmaceutical Sciences, otherwise probably Biochem or something of the like.

Some schools do not care at all that I am pursuing my Masters in Biochem. Other schools really appreciate it and it has helped me in the process. It really is dependent upon the school.

Good luck!
 
projektvertx said:
Hey guys,

So I'm reviving this thread because I'm considering pursuing a similar venture. I'm gonna be straightup here, here are the numbers (don't come at me too hard, there is a very good reason for my meager numbers):

Undergrad GPA: 2.73

I took the PCAT first time around. Numbers:

Verbal: 409, 63%
Bio: 414 69%
Read Comp: 391 34%
Quant: 420 82%
Chem: 422 81%
COMPOSITE 70%

-I do have one research project that I presented at ACS (American Chemical Society)
-Same research project was presented at a local university "conference" of sorts
-I've been volunteering teaching underpriviledged kids for the last 4 years.
-I've been working for less than a year in my undergrad career.
- I have two stellar LOR's from professors (one science, one non science, I did well in both classes) Ironically, one was from a composition class professor.

Based on what I just mentionned, I know I won't get in. My GPA and PCAT don't support that.

Now, my question is, yeah, I messed up my undergrad. That much I know. I want to complete a masters to turn things around and get into pharmacy school. Is this a good idea? Should I retake my PCAT if I improve my graduate GPA?

I can arrange for another LOR from a co-worker (she left, now works for the Rotary Club). She says she'd be willing to write me an LOR if I'd like.
Click to expand...

Messed up my undergrad two. Ended it with a 2.5 cum. Ended up working as a tech for about a year and I got interviews from 4 schools accepted to 3. So dont give up hope!
 
Hey everyone,

Thanks for the great options and encouragment. I honestly did not expect this much optimism. Aside from possibly re-taking classes (and yes, I'm aware PharmCAS averages the two grades) or possibly a masters, what are my options when it comes to 0-6 pharmacy schools? Would they accept, or even consider, someone who has already completed their undergraduate work? I was wondering if these are schools I should keep on my list.
 
And just another thing I'd like to bring up, could a good way to strengthen my application, alongside retaking classes, be to switch jobs to work for a local pharmaceutical company? Not that I don't like my current work, but if that helps me...
 
projektvertx said:
Hey everyone,

Thanks for the great options and encouragment. I honestly did not expect this much optimism. Aside from possibly re-taking classes (and yes, I'm aware PharmCAS averages the two grades) or possibly a masters, what are my options when it comes to 0-6 pharmacy schools? Would they accept, or even consider, someone who has already completed their undergraduate work? I was wondering if these are schools I should keep on my list.
Click to expand...

0-6 will only take a limited number of transfers and since there are less spots, I think it is more competitive. They do consider those that have completed undergrad though. Since you are working on making yourself more competitive, I would limit the number of 0-6 schools you want to apply to unless $ is no object.
 
just apply, you will definitely get in.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
OK guys, so another concern I'm having as well is the following: This being 2013 now, and me having graduated in December 2011, that puts some of my pre-reqs in Fall '07/Spring '08. Some schools have the following rule, written in some way or form: "Science and Math courses should be completed no more than five years prior to enrollment." Any opinions? Would that disqualify any of those grades?
 
I have a friend who dropped out of college and tried to justify his actions by saying he knows XYZ random person who never went to college and is making millions of dollars; according to this friend, he is the next such person.

Now, I am aware there are people who have made it into pharmacy school with substandard qualifications, some of which are even in this thread. Yes, it is possible to get admitted but the risk/reward ratio is not in your favor. People are forgetting that applying to schools cost money. If you have poor credentials how many schools are you going to apply to?

Let's suppose you apply to 10 schools. That's easily $500 in Pharmcas fees with another $500 easily adding up in supplemental fees. Then in the slim chance a school offers you an interview you spend the $500 flying out with your nerves all fried hoping you will pass the interview. Lots of people have misconceptions about the interview process; they think that if you go to the interview and don't majorly screw up you're in. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. In these kinds of situations where you're subpar, you end up on the waiting list because schools have their pick for what students to take. For every ten 2.5 GPA students out there, there are hundreds of "average joes and does" with 3.0 GPAs and 70 PCATs.

So I guess if you have tons of money and want to gamble then go ahead and apply with subpar credentials. I suppose "a puncher has a puncher's chance" right? Again, my advice is to strengthen yourself and then apply realistically.
 
Amicable Angora said:
I have a friend who dropped out of college and tried to justify his actions by saying he knows XYZ random person who never went to college and is making millions of dollars; according to this friend, he is the next such person.

Now, I am aware there are people who have made it into pharmacy school with substandard qualifications, some of which are even in this thread. Yes, it is possible to get admitted but the risk/reward ratio is not in your favor. People are forgetting that applying to schools cost money. If you have poor credentials how many schools are you going to apply to?

Let's suppose you apply to 10 schools. That's easily $500 in Pharmcas fees with another $500 easily adding up in supplemental fees. Then in the slim chance a school offers you an interview you spend the $500 flying out with your nerves all fried hoping you will pass the interview. Lots of people have misconceptions about the interview process; they think that if you go to the interview and don't majorly screw up you're in. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. In these kinds of situations where you're subpar, you end up on the waiting list because schools have their pick for what students to take. For every ten 2.5 GPA students out there, there are hundreds of "average joes and does" with 3.0 GPAs and 70 PCATs.

So I guess if you have tons of money and want to gamble then go ahead and apply with subpar credentials. I suppose "a puncher has a puncher's chance" right? Again, my advice is to strengthen yourself and then apply realistically.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I'm just trying to explore options as well. I just want to start by saying thanks, for seeming like the voice of reason in this thread. Again, my concerns stand. I'm a December 2011 grad, assuming I pursue a master's degree, where do my prereqs stand in that case? Would I have to do a master's AND redo my prereqs? Is applying to a 0-6 school a good idea with, especially with a master's degree? Again, I ask you because you seem to be the voice of reason here.
 
projektvertx said:
Fair enough. I'm just trying to explore options as well. I just want to start by saying thanks, for seeming like the voice of reason in this thread. Again, my concerns stand. I'm a December 2011 grad, assuming I pursue a master's degree, where do my prereqs stand in that case? Would I have to do a master's AND redo my prereqs? Is applying to a 0-6 school a good idea with, especially with a master's degree? Again, I ask you because you seem to be the voice of reason here.
Click to expand...

The majority of 0-6 schools will accept you only to the 3rd year of the program. In this sense, you are applying as a transfer. I am fairly certain there are zero 0-6 programs that will consider you as a freshman unless you reapply from high school. The odds are definitely against you for several reasons:

- The transfer seats available are limited to the number of students who failed out 2nd year. This is not a high number, with 10, even, being generous.
- Hundreds of individuals still apply as transfers - whether not doing research on the schools and not realizing this fallacy, or confident in their credentials - and often the few who get selected have 3.7+ GPAs with 85+ PCATs.

You did not list your prerequisite grades so I assume they are C, C+, B, B+ level. If your masters is scientifically relevant, you should not have a problem especially since your prereqs should still be current within the 5 year timespan. When people talk about the timespan it's generally counted from your last high level course. So you could have taken General Chemistry as a freshman in 2007, but if you finished Organic Chemistry 2 in December 2011, you are good until 2016 for the most part (and you won't even apply that late).

If you feel that some of your prerequisites are especially bad, feel free to retake them. However it is generally unnecessary. If you do exceptionally well on your masters and you improve on your PCAT it's redundant to retake, for example, Biology 2, just to raise your GPA.

I do not advise you to apply to 0-6 schools without specifically researching their seats. Most likely, it is how I described it and there are like 100 candidates to 1 spot.

The good news is that 2 years from now if you really did graduate with a MS 3.5+ and a PCAT 80+, you have a genuine chance of being admitted to at least a mid tier (if not high tier) program. This in itself, should be a huge comfort.
 
Amicable Angora said:
The majority of 0-6 schools will accept you only to the 3rd year of the program. In this sense, you are applying as a transfer. I am fairly certain there are zero 0-6 programs that will consider you as a freshman unless you reapply from high school. The odds are definitely against you for several reasons:

- The transfer seats available are limited to the number of students who failed out 2nd year. This is not a high number, with 10, even, being generous.
- Hundreds of individuals still apply as transfers - whether not doing research on the schools and not realizing this fallacy, or confident in their credentials - and often the few who get selected have 3.7+ GPAs with 85+ PCATs.

You did not list your prerequisite grades so I assume they are C, C+, B, B+ level. If your masters is scientifically relevant, you should not have a problem especially since your prereqs should still be current within the 5 year timespan. When people talk about the timespan it's generally counted from your last high level course. So you could have taken General Chemistry as a freshman in 2007, but if you finished Organic Chemistry 2 in December 2011, you are good until 2016 for the most part (and you won't even apply that late).

If you feel that some of your prerequisites are especially bad, feel free to retake them. However it is generally unnecessary. If you do exceptionally well on your masters and you improve on your PCAT it's redundant to retake, for example, Biology 2, just to raise your GPA.

I do not advise you to apply to 0-6 schools without specifically researching their seats. Most likely, it is how I described it and there are like 100 candidates to 1 spot.

The good news is that 2 years from now if you really did graduate with a MS 3.5+ and a PCAT 80+, you have a genuine chance of being admitted to at least a mid tier (if not high tier) program. This in itself, should be a huge comfort.
Click to expand...

First off, thanks again, for the honest response. And it is a huge confort actually to know that all hope isn't lost.

So, essentially, that throws the 0-6 programs out the window for now. That seems to be a farfetched option. OK, so the 5 years begins from the semester in which I took my last pre-req basically. Another question, and I thank you for being so patient with me here 🙂, if I were to take one or two of my pre-reqs again today, would that reset the clock so to speak? Would that give me a few more years?

Now, I've done some research into possible master's programs that I could delve into. There is one that caught my attention. It's a master's in Chemistry, but the school offers an MS and an MA program (21 credits coursework + 8 thesis or 32 credits coursework repectively). MS is geared for industry while MS is geared for teaching to what they claim. Credit-wise, it would be relatively the same if I do well, but I am leaning towards the MA program since a thesis could be quite time consuming and may not lead down the right road. I would much rather take classes. HOWEVER, would the fact that it's an MA program hurt me?

Again, thank you SO much for being straightup with me and giving me very detailed, well thought out responses. And for giving me hope 🙂
 
For your prereq question, (since my prereq sciences are from as far back as 2003), it is school dependent. I had to submit paperwork for a few programs asking for the 5 year limit to be waived and the reasoning behind it (years of research, masters in science as well as high science PCAT scores).

As for MA vs. MS: MA programs are generally weaker in the science aspect, but then again, everything is program dependent. If you go with an MA program, I would suggest some stellar extracurriculars since you won't have the research/thesis aspect. Do some research into the programs you are considering and talk to both faculty and students of the programs to find out more information.
 
Your GPA would severly limit your chances of getting accepted into a 0-6 program. not saying you're not on top of your stuff, but those kids are REALL on their stuff! LOL good luck!
 
projektvertx said:
First off, thanks again, for the honest response. And it is a huge confort actually to know that all hope isn't lost.
Click to expand...

You are welcome. If you do the (hard) time, you will get successful results.

projektvertx said:
So, essentially, that throws the 0-6 programs out the window for now. That seems to be a farfetched option. OK, so the 5 years begins from the semester in which I took my last pre-req basically. Another question, and I thank you for being so patient with me here 🙂, if I were to take one or two of my pre-reqs again today, would that reset the clock so to speak? Would that give me a few more years?
Click to expand...

This only works for the field of study your prerequisite is in. For example, if you took organic 2 now you should generally be safe for 5 more years regarding chemistry prereqs. However, your biology prereqs would be in trouble then. If you took A&P 1, 2, micro all now, you would be set for biology prereqs for 5 more years b/c Biology 1 and 2 are covered under those courses.

projektvertx said:
Now, I've done some research into possible master's programs that I could delve into. There is one that caught my attention. It's a master's in Chemistry, but the school offers an MS and an MA program (21 credits coursework + 8 thesis or 32 credits coursework repectively). MS is geared for industry while MS is geared for teaching to what they claim. Credit-wise, it would be relatively the same if I do well, but I am leaning towards the MA program since a thesis could be quite time consuming and may not lead down the right road. I would much rather take classes. HOWEVER, would the fact that it's an MA program hurt me?
Click to expand...

You will be fine either way; as long as it's a MS/MA in Chemistry, 32 credits of coursework may be more benefically actually (your MA choice) because it gives you more opportunities to show B+/A grades in graduate science courses as opposed to getting a pass/fail in thesis work.

projektvertx said:
Again, thank you SO much for being straightup with me and giving me very detailed, well thought out responses. And for giving me hope 🙂
Click to expand...

You are welcome. It does take a lot of hard work, but you have the potential to get in.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

G
Low GPA for Canadian Pharm
Replies
1
Views
3K
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
L
Low gpa
Replies
16
Views
6K
KirksvilleKrunk
K
W
low gpa high pcat
Replies
31
Views
7K
olabrador23
O
S
PharmCas and Graduate Grading
Replies
1
Views
3K
BC_89
BC_89
Tusvan
Is there a Creighton PharmD distance graduate that I can message (WA)?
Replies
1
Views
2K
BC_89
BC_89
Top Bottom