How many slors?

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How many slors are needed to be invited to interview? Will 2 slors and 1 non-em rec be enough for programs to invite you to interview?
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Thanks. Are all programs pretty much the same on this? Is there somewhere I can find this information?
 
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I don't know if it's a written rule but having slor's is what the programs are taught to read. SLOR's are quickly replacing the LOR's. I had 2 SLOR, 2 LOR's from surgery/medicine. no problems getting interviews. get as many as you can, submit the best ones on ERAS, then hand carry the rest and submit during the interview.if the reviewer recognizes a name on the LOR, it can only help. good luck
 
Thanks for the responses.
Someone had mentioned something that some programs want 3 SLORs to interview this seemed like a lot to me, and it sounds like thats probably not true.
 
What you're really talking about is EM letters vs. non-EM letters (generally speaking, every EM letter should be a SLOR).

I think for most programs, more is better. You MUST have at least one. Using SLORs for all three letters is a good thing, assuming that the writers have personal knowledge of your work and will write a supportive letter. From a letter-reader perspective, I'm more likely to know the person who writes a SLOR while I'm very unlikely to know some random medicine or surgery attending. And the SLOR writer will address the qualities that are important to me while non-EM folks often do not.

Unless you can get an absolutely stellar letter from a non-EM person with intimate knowledge of your work, it likely won't carry a lot of weight (although every program is different in what they look for). For example, if you did research with a trauma surgeon who will address your work ethic, ability to quickly process novel information, teamwork, etc. by using phases like "the best student I've ever..." I think it's worth having them write you a letter. Otherwise, you're probably better off with another SLOR if you can swing it.

Having said that, a good letter is better than a bad letter regardless of who writes it.

I just woke up after an overnight shift, so hopefully this makes sense. Good luck.
 
calespine said:
For folks that review applications- of course a SLOR that says you are outstanding (top 10%) is best, but what if the letter says you are excellent (top 1/3)? I'm just wondering since my LOR writers say they are very happy to write a strong letter, but I'm not comfortable asking, are you ranking me as "outstanding" vs. "excellent" on the form, plus I'm waiving my right to see the LORs. I'm not worried about them anything bad, but I think it's kinda hard to predict how high they'll rank you.
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It won't make nearly the difference that you think it will. I'd personally rather see a top 1/3 ranking from an experienced EM educator than a top 1/10 from a non-EM writer.
 
Hawkeye Kid said:
What you're really talking about is EM letters vs. non-EM letters (generally speaking, every EM letter should be a SLOR).

I think for most programs, more is better. You MUST have at least one. Using SLORs for all three letters is a good thing, assuming that the writers have personal knowledge of your work and will write a supportive letter. From a letter-reader perspective, I'm more likely to know the person who writes a SLOR while I'm very unlikely to know some random medicine or surgery attending. And the SLOR writer will address the qualities that are important to me while non-EM folks often do not.

Unless you can get an absolutely stellar letter from a non-EM person with intimate knowledge of your work, it likely won't carry a lot of weight (although every program is different in what they look for). For example, if you did research with a trauma surgeon who will address your work ethic, ability to quickly process novel information, teamwork, etc. by using phases like "the best student I've ever..." I think it's worth having them write you a letter. Otherwise, you're probably better off with another SLOR if you can swing it.

Having said that, a good letter is better than a bad letter regardless of who writes it.

I just woke up after an overnight shift, so hopefully this makes sense. Good luck.
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Im asking specifically how many EM SLORs are required by programs. So you are saying programs only require a minimum of 1? My clerkship directors automatically write one for every student going into EM. I worked a few shifts with one of them and my advisor is the other, so I think Im all right in expecting to get a decent one from that.
As I mentioned, I also have a non-em regular lor coming from surgery. What I want to know is will I be fine just getting one other SLOR from an EM attending I worked with giving me 2 total EM SLORs and one non-EM LOR- and be good to go for getting interview invites and ranked on lists? Or should I shoot for more?
Thanks a lot for your help.
 
I was trying to address the issue in general while responding to your question. I think each program will have different expectations regarding the minimum number of SLORs they'll accept. I was simply stating that no program that I know of will consider your application without at least one. I'm not aware of any program that requires three SLORs, but it's been a few years since I've really looked at this across the board. I'm also not aware of any program that requires or requests a non-EM letter. In general, a SLOR will go farther than a non-SLOR.

Regarding your specific situation, and again, assuming that the content of the letters and your application is strong, 2 SLORs and 1 surgery LOR should be fine. Having said that, the surgery LOR will likely carry less weight at most programs than a 3rd, equally strong SLOR (how much less weight depends on the program and to an extent what attributes the surgeon discusses). Does that mean you HAVE to get a 3rd SLOR or that a LOR from a surgeon is worthless? Of course not.

Hopefully that clears some things up. It's a little difficult to give more solid advice without knowing the specifics of your situation (other application stuff, where you want to go, etc). If you have more specific questions feel free to PM me.
 
Are SLORs requried for the military match? I was helping someone who is applying this year and did not know the answer to this.

Thanks!
 
I have a related question. I'm doing my home EM rotation in August and aways in October and November. I've heard that one should try to submit a SLOR from each rotation site, but also that it's best to have the application complete as early as possible, and that one shouldn't submit more LORs than requested. Should I try to get two SLORs from my home school, apply with those plus one regular LOR, and then offer SLORs from the other sites later?
 
Agree with the above regarding SLORs in regard to being more regarded than non-EM letters.

Regarding the number - typically, programs require at least 1, and usually don't want more than 2. Why? Well, EM is a broad specialty and if you do a lot of EM rotations (and thus get a lot of EM SLORs), then you're not spending your time during 4th year seeing as much as you can.

In other words, during residency, you'll have plenty of time to be in the ED. Don't do your intern year during 4th year. Get out, see stuff, do random rotations that will help you during your EM residency (US, radiology, tox, ophtho, etc).

As an aside, a tox rotation is a good way to get an "EM" SLOR without doing a 3rd EM rotation... typically, tox faculty are also EM faculty so they will complete a SLOR for you; but as it's a subspecialty, it doesn't violate the "no more than 2 EM rotations" rule as above.

Just my $0.02
 
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What are people's thoughts about getting two SLORs from the same rotation? I had already asked one attending to write me a SLOR, and then a second attending offered to write a SLOR for me after the first attending already submitted their SLOR. Is it common to have two SLORs from the same rotation? If I have to pick just one, I should probably use the SLOR from the more senior person, right? If it matters, I am doing an away in a month and I want to get a SLOR from that rotation, so I would already have two.
 
Are programs forgiving if you are transferring from another field (surgery) and dont have any SLORs? I have a "regular" EM LOR that i used in my surg application but have decided to switch and am wondering if my lack of slors will be an issue. Should have LORs from attendings and my PD though, if thats any help......
 
Daiphon said:
Agree with the above regarding SLORs in regard to being more regarded than non-EM letters.

Regarding the number - typically, programs require at least 1, and usually don't want more than 2. Why? Well, EM is a broad specialty and if you do a lot of EM rotations (and thus get a lot of EM SLORs), then you're not spending your time during 4th year seeing as much as you can.

In other words, during residency, you'll have plenty of time to be in the ED. Don't do your intern year during 4th year. Get out, see stuff, do random rotations that will help you during your EM residency (US, radiology, tox, ophtho, etc).

As an aside, a tox rotation is a good way to get an "EM" SLOR without doing a 3rd EM rotation... typically, tox faculty are also EM faculty so they will complete a SLOR for you; but as it's a subspecialty, it doesn't violate the "no more than 2 EM rotations" rule as above.

Just my $0.02
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I am currently a MS3 with no EM rotation this year. Would 3 rotations my 4th year be overkill and be considered a negative? Or should I just stick with one at my home program and the other an away?
 
just to repeat some of the unanswered questions - is it bad to get 2 SLORs from the same school (ie. home school)? and 1 or 2 from aways?

and can anyone explain the real difference between a SLOR and LOR?
 
otacon88 said:
just to repeat some of the unanswered questions - is it bad to get 2 SLORs from the same school (ie. home school)? and 1 or 2 from aways?

and can anyone explain the real difference between a SLOR and LOR?
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SLOR is a form from CORD. http://www.cordem.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3284

It is a standardized letter of rec with numeric measures of the applicant along with the letter.

Where as an LOR would just be the letter.

I sent 4 SLORs - all from my home school. But it certainly wouldn't be bad to have 2 from home and 1-2 from aways. Just get the strongest letters you can and have at least 2 be SLORs.
 
I had 2 SLORs from my home institution, no other EM letters. I don't recall any CA program asking for more than that. As for number of rotation, I just did one EM rotation, no aways. Matched at my top choice, in CA.
 
iceman77_7 said:
I had 2 SLORs from my home institution, no other EM letters. I don't recall any CA program asking for more than that. As for number of rotation, I just did one EM rotation, no aways. Matched at my top choice, in CA.
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what were your step 1/2 scores?
 
California letters for california programs often are enough... because everyone knows each other. if you were coming from the midwest, I would say you might want to hedge with 3.

In general:

one from your home institution
one-two from another rotation
(none from ultrasound unless you have worked extensively and done research... these have no clinical value and add very little to your file, regardless of how awesome the month was)
one from another service: (IM, surg, ob are great, others fine as well)
If you have done significant research, mph or something along those lines, a letter speaking to this is not a bad idea if you have 'room' in eras for it.

If it can be avoided, do not have multiple letters from one institution/rotation. It doesn't really add a whole lot more to your file. However, sometimes it can't be avoided but at least two letters from two separate ed rotations is great.
 
What about all EM letters (none from ob, surg, medicine)? Thanks.
 
NERDY said:
What about all EM letters (none from ob, surg, medicine)? Thanks.
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I did 4 EM letters and nothing else. My advisors told me EM letters were most important so thats fine.
 
(Disclaimer-only entering 1st year, so obviously know little to nothing and could (likely will) change residency choice after 3rd year)

For a DO student, without a home EM program, is 3 aways considered too many still (this could be applied to any residency type, I suppose)? I know someone had said 2 aways was enough (and more were looked down upon), but I'm assuming that's for US MDs who already have an EM residency at their home program.

Reading SDN, it seems like you need MD letters from ACGME programs to apply to ACGME residencies (or they greatly help your app), so 2 rotations probably wouldn't be enough, but three might be good. With 3 SLORs, and then 1 from a community physician (Gen Surg/IM - MD or DO), would that be considered safe?

(And I do know I shouldn't even worry about this for another year or two, but if anyone has advice, it'd be much appreciated, thanks!)
 
There is no absolute right answer to this. 4 *solid* EM letters is good. scrounging through 2 departments (or worse one) to get 4 em letters doesn't add alot.

There are so many variables that can be put into play here. A good rule is:

You want two EM SLOR's, preferably from different places.
If you use an off service LOR: surg=IM=gyn>peds/fp/psych (you don't have to have one of these as much can be read from the deans letter but they are good to have)
If you have done something else (MPH, research, etc) it doesn't hurt to have a lor from these but don't kill youself gettting one.
Letters from EM ultrasound rotations don't add a lot to your file.

Addendum:
some goals of SLOR's (EM based and why two are good)

Provide information about your clinical skills
Work ethic
Interpersonal skills
teachability
'EM potential'

goals of LOR:
add more information about your self that can't be gotten from EM SLOR's or your deans list (mph work, research etc)
Reinforce your ability to play well with other services adn perform in a medical setting in a professional way.
 
My school offers a peds EM elective. The pre-req rotation is peds, so peds EM can be done in year III. Would this be useful for getting letters/more experience?
 
NERDY said:
My school offers a peds EM elective. The pre-req rotation is peds, so peds EM can be done in year III. Would this be useful for getting letters/more experience?
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It'll be helpful for experience and useful for getting a LOR. But remember, the whole point of getting SLORs is so that Residency Directors can read what you're like in another residency program. A Peds EM LOR wouldn't necessarily replace an EM residency SLOR. A Peds EM LOR would only really tell the residency director how you are in a Peds EM setting. A residency director wants to know what you're like in an EM residency setting.
 
OK, different question on the same theme.

Do I *need* to get any LORs that aren't SLORs? I'm hoping to get 3 on away rotations (since I can't get any from my home institution).
 
quepatho said:
OK, different question on the same theme.

Do I *need* to get any LORs that aren't SLORs? I'm hoping to get 3 on away rotations (since I can't get any from my home institution).
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WHen I applied all of mine were EM SLORs and I did well in getting interviews and the match so I would say no you don't need any non EM LORs.

Why cant you get any from your home institution? If theres an EM program there that will be a red flag.
 
I had 5 SLORs (3 home, 2 away) total. My school's PD said he likes it that way. Easy to read, less time consuming. It did not impact the amount of interviews I wanted to get, unless it was in a positive way.
 
I have a question regarding my situation for anyone in the know re: having an EM letter that is not a SLOR. I'm a DO student with a required EM rotation at my home hospital. Our ED is the community ED affiliate for a nearby university program, so all their EM residents rotate through there, and all the attendings have assistant faculty titles. I will never work with the program's PD or assistant PD, though, and I'm pretty sure my home ED attendings have nothing to do with evaluating applicants for program, so I'm not sure they would be the best to fill out a SLOR. I was planning just to get a regular LOR from one of the attendings, but it will likely come on university letterhead (not my school, though). Would this look odd? Should I just try to get one of my attendings to do the SLOR anyway?
 
I would prefer to see SLORs from EM Residency Program Faculty as a preferred letter. I weight these the highest, followed by LORs from any EM physician.

It has value to have one off-service letter from a mentor or someone that can describe your growth and development in medical school. This should not be a SLOR and 1 is all that is needed.

There is no benefit to generic off-service letters in general.

It is nice to see similar weighted SLORs from more than 1 department, but NOT necessary. 2 from 1 program is also fine.

CORD is updating the SLOR this year, so next year's version will likely have some changes
 
If they are familiar and comfortable with a SLOR it is fine, otherwise it is acceptable and fine for them to write a regular LOR.
 
alwaysaangel said:
WHen I applied all of mine were EM SLORs and I did well in getting interviews and the match so I would say no you don't need any non EM LORs.

Why cant you get any from your home institution? If theres an EM program there that will be a red flag.
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Yeah, there isn't an EM program here. (Hopefully no one thinks there is)
 
So someone recently said that SLORs should only be done by PDs and medical student directors. I got a well respected faculty member, but not a PD or course director, at one of the residency programs to fill out one of the SLORs for me. Was this a mistake? Should I just have gotten him to write me a regular letter instead?

I still have two other committee SLORS from places I rotated at, if that helps.
 
CORD recommends the PD or med student coordinator but it doesn't have to be either of those. The reason they say that is because the slor asks what percentage of students that rotated at the program got each grade, and where you compare to the other students... Stuff that someone not in an administrative position might not know.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
 
SLORs can be from any faculty. We just ask the clerkship secretary to give us the data needed about scoring and how many letters were written last year. It's true that SLORs from the PD and CD are considered "weightier" in terms of opinion of student ability but any faculty who worked with you long enough to get to know you can also be trusted.
 
pianoman511 said:
CORD recommends the PD or med student coordinator but it doesn't have to be either of those. The reason they say that is because the slor asks what percentage of students that rotated at the program got each grade, and where you compare to the other students... Stuff that someone not in an administrative position might not know.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
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EMmotherhen said:
SLORs can be from any faculty. We just ask the clerkship secretary to give us the data needed about scoring and how many letters were written last year. It's true that SLORs from the PD and CD are considered "weightier" in terms of opinion of student ability but any faculty who worked with you long enough to get to know you can also be trusted.
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Thanks!
 
What is the latest time you can wait to submit a SLOR and have it help your application? Suppose you did an away in october, would getting the SLOR in by your interview be sufficient?
 
I did a rotation in November and received my SLOR in mid-January. Programs at which I had already interviewed expressed interest in having the letter sent to them directly from my school. I had already used all 4 of my ERAS letter slots, so my registrar just sent the letter out to the PD emails that I specified. Good SLORs are helpful any time. For me however, this was a 5th SLOR and at my second away, so I think most programs had what they needed already... I just wanted to make sure they had a copy of my last SLOR in the event they wanted it.

Edit: if you are speaking of this being the first SLOR, you may get some delay in interviews if you don't have any SLORs submitted until after the october rotation. Not entirely sure. Having at least one SLOR by early October would be strongly advisable, as I began receiving interviews around that time last year.
 
Dane07MD said:
I did a rotation in November and received my SLOR in mid-January.
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side note, if you requested a SLOR near the end of July, how long would it take to write it? i finished my rotation back in April. I sent an email asking for a progress update about 3 weeks after the request but the response was simply, "yes we have received your paperwork."

i'm hesitant about sending another email for fear of pestering them, but at the same time i'm worried because i wanted to have at least 1 SLOR by the time i submitted ERAS.. any thoughts??
 
coffeeeandtea said:
side note, if you requested a SLOR near the end of July, how long would it take to write it? i finished my rotation back in April. I sent an email asking for a progress update about 3 weeks after the request but the response was simply, "yes we have received your paperwork."

i'm hesitant about sending another email for fear of pestering them, but at the same time i'm worried because i wanted to have at least 1 SLOR by the time i submitted ERAS.. any thoughts??
Click to expand...
They should for sure have it in now. You could try reminding them that Apps go out sept 15
 
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