Info about Osteopathic programs?

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Ferrismonk

Ferrismonk

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I'm a current 3rd year DO student interested in Anesthesiology and I'm trying to make an informed decision about my residency options. It seems to me that everyone on this forum and elsewhere states that you should apply to an allopathic residency because of more complex cases, higher caseloads, better didactics, etc, but I can't seem to find any information on the osteopathic programs out there. Are there any residents in osteopathic programs or at least people who rotated at osteopathic anesthesiology programs that can provide some inside info? It's really help me make a more informed decision.

Also, for what it's worth, I'm leaning more heavily towards osteopathic anesthesia anyway. On a practical note, I've only taken the COMLEX step 1 so far, and I'd rather avoid doubling my cost to take the USMLE now. Also, my score is <500 so I'm not super competitive for a top-tier allopathic program. If I had to make the choice between skipping the DO match for a so-so chance in the MD match, I'd rather stick to an osteopathic program. Plus, it's much simpler to fulfill all the DO intern requirements if I do an osteopathic program. Additionally, I have a family and don't really care if I do liver transplants for a living. I plan on being a "normal" anesthesiologist in a community setting after I'm done. I know this is a little counter-cultural to the stereotypical gunner anesthesiology applicant, but its the case nonetheless. I'm still willing to bust my @$$ to do well of course.

So basically, does anyone have any info to share about the osteopathic programs out there? Thanks!
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Your COMLEX score is not competitive for any ACGME program. What is "leaning more heavily toward osteopathic anesthesiology anyway?" You say you're willing to bust your ..., but you seem to be a mediocre student who is satisfied with more mediocrity. Anesthesiology is a deadly serious endeavor and even the "community" practitioner may be called upon to make a life-or-death intervention at a moment's notice. If you are not ready, someone dies and you make a fool of yourself and the profession.
The ACGME accreditation process is rigorous and a mark of minimal quality. The AOA process does not come close. Indeed, DO ACGME residency grads who have difficulty with the ABMS boards usually pass the AOA boards easily.
If you can not or will not do the work to match into an ACGME program, you (and the rest of us) are better off by your going into family medicine, or something like that.
 
DO Anes said:
Your COMLEX score is not competitive for any ACGME program. What is "leaning more heavily toward osteopathic anesthesiology anyway?" You say you're willing to bust your ..., but you seem to be a mediocre student who is satisfied with more mediocrity. Anesthesiology is a deadly serious endeavor and even the "community" practitioner may be called upon to make a life-or-death intervention at a moment's notice. If you are not ready, someone dies and you make a fool of yourself and the profession.
The ACGME accreditation process is rigorous and a mark of minimal quality. The AOA process does not come close. Indeed, DO ACGME residency grads who have difficulty with the ABMS boards usually pass the AOA boards easily.
If you can not or will not do the work to match into an ACGME program, you (and the rest of us) are better off by your going into family medicine, or something like that.
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That is not even possible, so that's a false statement. The AOA will not let you take their board exam if you did not do an AOA approved residency.

Your input is not constructive or useful at all. And your snap judgement about being a mediocre student, and therefore a mediocre physician, based on step 1 board scores is ridiculous.

Next time try to give some constructive advice, or none at all.
 
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The AOA approves grads of ACGME residencies for examination and certification under Resolution 56. I personally know several individuals who could not pass the ABA exams, but succeeded on the AOA.
Some ACGME anesthesiology programs will not look at DO's.
Many will not accept the COMLEX. For those that do, a COMLEX of 500 is below the cutoff for most.
The score in of itself is mediocre. The attitude of being just good enough is mediocre. Anesthesiology has no room for mediocrity.
The advice is constructive, just not Pollyanna.
 
DO Anes said:
The AOA approves grads of ACGME residencies for examination and certification under Resolution 56. I personally know several individuals who could not pass the ABA exams, but succeeded on the AOA.
Some ACGME anesthesiology programs will not look at DO's.
Many will not accept the COMLEX. For those that do, a COMLEX of 500 is below the cutoff for most.
The score in of itself is mediocre. The attitude of being just good enough is mediocre. Anesthesiology has no room for mediocrity.
The advice is constructive, just not Pollyanna.
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Interesting. Sorry for my misguided assertion, I thought it was only done for internships via resolution 42. But... the OP was asking for info on DO programs, because they are interested in them and has somewhat conceded to the fact that their chances aren't great at the allo institutions. Your message that unless you can get an allo spot you might as well be a FP is bogus, and not what was asked.
 
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As pleasurable as the above conversation has been, I didn't start this thread to assess my chances for an anesthesiology residency. And quite frankly, other than a rough estimate of my step 1 score, you really don't know much about me. So please, let's try to keep on topic.

Does anyone here have first-hand experience with the osteopathic anesthesiology programs? Thanks!
 
the only DO anesthesia program I would ever consider is the one at Doctor's Hospital. It's the most "allopathic"
Staff graduates from Ohio State, a few out rotations at nearby Level 1 TC (Grant) and one of the top Peds programs in the country (Nationwide). Provides just about everything you need, I did hear their hearts may be a little weak, but that's a problem at most MD programs, too.

Maybe consider DMC, too.

I wouldn't consider the others. Ingham (I see you're from E. Lansing) has no trauma, no ICU. I rotated there, and that scared me off.
 
I heard from a 4th year friend that Riverside Regional Medical Center has a pretty good DO anesthesiology program, and that this program was most similar to other allopathic gas programs she rotated at. That's all I know about it, though.
 
Doctor's is a fine program. Several good out rotations like you said. However, saying that it is the "only" program worth looking at is a bit short sighted.
 
Then what else's "great"?

I mentioned 2. Doctors and DMC but I dont know anything about DMC except Wayne State has their Anesthesia alongside...

I've heard negatives on Grandview and the other one in Ohio.
The one in Cali is malignant.
I know nothing about the bread-basket programs ... OSU sees no trauma... Largo's sucks ...
 
Riverside is a fine place. Great out rotations. I have a friend there now who hasn't complained about "malignancy" he chose to go there dispute having a fine application for MD programs. They placed a resident at Loma Linda for cardiothorasics this past year. Loma Linda only takes one a year. You could get a fine education there even if not everyone is singing cumbaya together.

DMC is a good program. Wayne State affiliated. Lot's of good path in Detroit.

Doctor's has it's weaknesses which I will not expound upon here, but is a fine program. Did not fill on Match day last year. Partly because they did not rank enough folks.

Don't know what you heard about Grandview. They had the highest average on the anesthesia Inservice exam this year out of all the DO programs. 2 DO attendings. The rest are MD's. One is an oral board examiner for the MD boards.

Ingham isn't terrible. It's bigger than Doctor's and they have out rotations to supplement the education.

There are those tiny programs out there that you do want to avoid. I'll not name names.
 
I went to school in East Lansing, as well. If I had stuck to the osteopathic match, I would have probably stayed there. I think they get reasonable training and most D.O. programs are well-given to sending you out for rotations elsewhere to cover areas of caseload weakness.

I will say that I resonate with at least the spirit of what DO Anes has written. I think that anesthesiology is often viewed as a sort of 'push over' specialty by medical students. Not at all that you're viewing it as such...but the field is anything but.

Best of luck.
 
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OP: Also, for what it's worth, I'm leaning more heavily towards osteopathic anesthesia anyway.

Anesthesia is anesthesia, how can you be leaning towards "osteopathic" anesthesia? Do you mean you are leaning towards an osteopathic residency? If so, why? Because it's easier? I just don't get it.
 
I'd definitely agree with the above statement about Grandview. I think it's an excellent and very solid program. IMHO, it was virtually identical to my allopathic experiences. They see a ton of very sick patients and seemed to do a lot of hearts. ALL of the residents were super cool and are very smart guys. I rotated at several of the institutions above and personally know a few current applicants that also rotated at these programs. I'm not about to get in an arguing match about which programs are malignant etc., but if the OP wants an honest assessment the things I observed during my rotations at these programs, then feel free to PM me. However, I will say that Grandview is the only program out those listed above (except DMC and doctors, I don't know enough about these programs) that I'd feel comfortable spending 4 years at.
 
Dogdaze said:
OP: Also, for what it's worth, I'm leaning more heavily towards osteopathic anesthesia anyway.

Anesthesia is anesthesia, how can you be leaning towards "osteopathic" anesthesia? Do you mean you are leaning towards an osteopathic residency? If so, why? Because it's easier? I just don't get it.
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I remember seeing some threads here that would disagree with that. Granted it was accounts of anecdotal experience, but I remember some posters discussing the credentialing process at hospitals and how they were required to be ABA BE/BC to get privileges at their hospital. It would seem that some don't think that anesthesia is anesthesia. I, obviously, can't comment on the validity of that statement, but it would appear that others in the world may not think too highly of those osteopathic programs.

To be fair, they may not think highly of some ABA programs and are able to more readily conceal their biases.
 
WTF is "osteopathic anesthesia"?

I stand by my assertion that ABA board certification is the gold standard and with anything less you are doing yourself a disservice and are limiting yourself to some small degree in the future.
 
There is some helpful info above, thank you!

I'll try to answer some of the questions above as well.

I will say that I resonate with at least the spirit of what DO Anes has written. I think that anesthesiology is often viewed as a sort of 'push over' specialty by medical students. Not at all that you're viewing it as such...but the field is anything but.
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To be clear, I don't view anesthesiology as a "push-over" specialty. On the contrary, I recently changed my mind from a less-competitive specialty to anesthesiology and realize I have some legwork ahead if I want to make it happen. I've kinda screwed myself a little by not taking the USMLE, not knocking my boards out of the park, and not basing myself at a hospital with an anesthesiology program. Can't cry over spilled milk, so I'm just scrambling to put my ducks in order.


Anesthesia is anesthesia, how can you be leaning towards "osteopathic" anesthesia? Do you mean you are leaning towards an osteopathic residency? If so, why? Because it's easier? I just don't get it.
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I apologize, that was a typo. I meant I was leaning more towards osteopathic anesthesiology residencies, not some weird type of manipulative anesthesia. :rolleyes:

I touched on the reasons above, but I'll try to reiterate them here. Allopathic programs are more competitive, and most don't accept the COMLEX scores. Since I wasn't originally planning on doing anesthesiology, I neglected to take the USMLE step 1 which automatically knocks me out of a lot of programs. Also, since I didn't exactly knock my COMLEX step 1 out of the park, I realize that I face an uphill battle matching into an allopathic program. To top that off, I still have to do an osteopathic internship even if I match into an allopathic program, so my PGY1 year and my CA-1 year would (with few exceptions) have to be at different places. To top this all off, since the osteopathic match is in February and the allopathic match is in March, I'd have to forgo the osteopathic match in order to attempt to match in an allopathic program. Since I am not super competitive on paper anyway, this choice has a very real possibility of making me scramble in the allopathic world; an unappetizing situation. If I stay at an osteopathic program, COMLEX is fine and I can track right into an anesthesiology program and not have to worry about the whole osteopathic internship mess.

The only question is, really, are the osteopathic programs worthwhile? Most people I talk to don't even consider them, and I'm looking for some insider information to help me make my own decision. If they suck, I'll gun for an allopathic program. If they aren't THAT bad, it might be a better option for me. That's all.
 
I would do everything possible in order to match to an ACGME program.

If you don't take the USMLE you will be locked out of a certain number of programs. My guess is that COMLEX only is good enough at many programs. Don't sell yourself short.
 
I am a DO, I have friends that went osteo and friends that went allo for residency. I personally went ACGME, am boarded by the ABA and certified in Echo. When I took my private practice job, there was no concern about me being a DO. However, the facility did not recognize the Osteopathic anesthesia board certification-- not a problem for me, but it could be something to think about.

BW
 
bluewater said:
I am a DO, I have friends that went osteo and friends that went allo for residency. I personally went ACGME, am boarded by the ABA and certified in Echo. When I took my private practice job, there was no concern about me being a DO. However, the facility did not recognize the Osteopathic anesthesia board certification-- not a problem for me, but it could be something to think about.

BW
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What state is this facility in? Is it a prevalent attitude?

Also, have you heard if your friends who went the osteo route had any problems getting jobs?
 
Deep south and I know of the non-recognition of osteo anest boards in other facilities as well.

All of my friends that trained the AOA route generally stayed in or near their training institutions, so I havent heard of a direct prob from them, but most are midwest or northern states.
 
I didnt participate.
Classmate of mine matched at Largo.
For the 1st time in the 3-4 years I tracked the match, all slots filled in anesthesia.
It appears that it was likely a nightmare trying to scramble in the DO post-match..
 
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