A nurse is my preceptor on surgery rotation

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sylvanthus

sylvanthus

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Yup, you heard that right. Good thing I am learning nursing rather than medicine. Seriously, I am pretty much training to be an OR nurse. I have no attending physician to turn to for questions unless I go out of my way to ask someone questions during a case. I don't follow patients before surgery, don't see them after, I am purely in the OR. God help me during the shelf. Thoughts?
 
That's some BS right there. Contact the clerkship director and try to get something that resembles a proper surgery rotation set up for you.
 
Yeah this is definitely a problem, you should sort it out asap.
 
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On the plus side, I cherry pick my cases, so get to scrub in on whatever I want to do that day. Be it urology, ortho, etc. So much for a general surgery rotation though. Ya I think ill email the clerkship director at the end of this rotation so that my 2nd one is more organized. I fear if I do it now, Ill end up starting the rotation all over and lose 2 weeks through no fault of my own.

Price I pay for going to a no name osteopathic school. Probably should have posted in the DO forum, but it gets so little traffic unless there is a DO bashing thread going on.
 
Wow, that's ridiculous! Is it worth waiting till the end of the rotation before emailing the clerkship director if you say you're "pretty much training to be an OR nurse?" I feel like that's much more of a waste of time than potentially having to re-do two weeks...but then again, I'm just a lowly M1, so I may be thinking of it the wrong way.
 
at the risk of being corrected by a surgery enthusiast, and based only on my own med school experience, you will probably learn more from a nurse than a surgery attending. if there are surgery residents present, you will definitely learn more from the nurse.
 
I would hope for all the money you pay in tuition you could at least follow a resident or hell even a surgery intern is better than a nurse.
 
sylvanthus said:
On the plus side, I cherry pick my cases, so get to scrub in on whatever I want to do that day. Be it urology, ortho, etc. So much for a general surgery rotation though. Ya I think ill email the clerkship director at the end of this rotation so that my 2nd one is more organized. I fear if I do it now, Ill end up starting the rotation all over and lose 2 weeks through no fault of my own.

Price I pay for going to a no name osteopathic school. Probably should have posted in the DO forum, but it gets so little traffic unless there is a DO bashing thread going on.
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It shouldn't matter you go to an osteopathic school. You need the full experience, not just the OR time. You aren't there to learn procedures, but rather gain the pre- to post-op experience of caring for surgical patients. You should have this corrected now.
 
I don't think your situation sounds nearly as bad as everyone else is making it seem. I did most of my learning during cases, so choosing what you want to do and when instead of scrubbing in on your 20th hernia repair sounds pretty nice to me. I assume you're also getting drilled on the various instruments, which is also nice. I didn't learn very much related to the shelf during surgery, so I think you'll be okay. It's nothing Pestana's notes and UW can't fix. That said, you're definitely missing out on the pre- and post-op management which is a pretty big deal.
 
MilkmanAl said:
you're definitely missing out on the pre- and post-op management which is a pretty big deal.
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Exactly. OP you need to talk to your clerkship director now. This is the part that is actually important.
 
sylvanthus said:
On the plus side, I cherry pick my cases, so get to scrub in on whatever I want to do that day. Be it urology, ortho, etc. So much for a general surgery rotation though. Ya I think ill email the clerkship director at the end of this rotation so that my 2nd one is more organized. I fear if I do it now, Ill end up starting the rotation all over and lose 2 weeks through no fault of my own.

Price I pay for going to a no name osteopathic school. Probably should have posted in the DO forum, but it gets so little traffic unless there is a DO bashing thread going on.
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No offense but this is great evidence for why osteopathic accreditation standards need to be tightened up.
 
She has been a nurse for 30+ years, so umm no not hot. Also, I agree with the above poster that said accredidation for osteopathic programs needs to be tightened up. Things are very inconsistent between sites and rotations.
If I could transfer successfully into an MD program, I would. Unfortunately, that is nigh impossible even with a decent step 1 and such. Ahh well year and a half to go.
 
Dartmouth2005 said:
No offense but this is great evidence for why osteopathic accreditation standards need to be tightened up.
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I've heard where as a fourth year medicine sub i a Carribean student had to do four weeks of converting paper charts to electronic format.

So it could be worse
 
Wow, that is bad. I get to intubate and help close and open occassionally, so I guess the experience isn't all bad. Just sucks not having a physician to really turn to for questions and guidance.
 
It is concerning to see such a shortcoming. This is one area where the "no-name" osteo schools are at a clear disadvantage vs the older/big state osteo schools. Regardless, you should tell your no-name school to fix it - because you're paying for it.
 
gerdman said:
- because you're paying for it.
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And probably paying more for it than your allopathic counterpart who is having a proper surgical rotation which includes preop, intraop, and postop experience.
 
True true, 43k and the school's mission is to produce more primary care physicians. Ahhhh how that cracks me up. Thanks for the advice guys.
 
Dartmouth2005 said:
No offense but this is great evidence for why osteopathic accreditation standards need to be tightened up.
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All of you are seriously buying this crap?

"Probably should have posted in the DO forum, but it gets so little traffic unless there is a DO bashing thread going on."

Yeah, right. If the OP posted this garbage in the DO forum everyone would know it's a troll. Better try in the allo forum where they all believe any garbage posted about osteopathic medicine, as long as it's negative.

Enjoy feeding the troll.
 
Shinken said:
All of you are seriously buying this crap?

"Probably should have posted in the DO forum, but it gets so little traffic unless there is a DO bashing thread going on."

Yeah, right. If the OP posted this garbage in the DO forum everyone would know it's a troll. Better try in the allo forum where they all believe any garbage posted about osteopathic medicine, as long as it's negative.

Enjoy feeding the troll.
Click to expand...

except OP has over 700 posts and if you look through his post history its very obvious that he goes to a DO school and you can easily figure out which one. not sure what motivation a DO student would have for posting something like this as a "troll"
 
Shinken said:
All of you are seriously buying this crap?

"Probably should have posted in the DO forum, but it gets so little traffic unless there is a DO bashing thread going on."

Yeah, right. If the OP posted this garbage in the DO forum everyone would know it's a troll. Better try in the allo forum where they all believe any garbage posted about osteopathic medicine, as long as it's negative.

Enjoy feeding the troll.
Click to expand...

I don't think he is a troll.
 
Dartmouth2005 said:
No offense but this is great evidence for why osteopathic accreditation standards need to be tightened up.
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You're assuming that this is acceptable to COCA. I would be highly surprised if it was.
 
You are paying $X,000 to train as an OR nurse.

Hell no. You should email the clerkship director and escalate it until you get some satisfaction. Are other students having the same problem you are? If so you ought to consider a complaint to LCME.
 
JackShephard MD said:
I don't think he is a troll.
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I am sure the situation is real, but I am pretty sure the OP was trying to start some sort of DO vs. MD thing here. He could have posted on the Osteopathic forum, but didn't want to because it "doesn't get enough traffic" even though had he posted this there, I am sure people would have responded with the same outrage. But instead he posted here, making people think he went to an allopathic school, and then posting the "no-name osteopathic school" curveball. I understand the OP's frustration (I would be upset too) but posting this in the MD forum is just making it worse when it comes to how Osteopathic schools are viewed. Also, like the above poster said, I am pretty sure this is not acceptable for either accreditiing body, and it is unacceptable, but it just seemed like a post that was put in a forum specifically to slight the DO school, not just a medical school.
 
Total180 said:
I am sure the situation is real, but I am pretty sure the OP was trying to start some sort of DO vs. MD thing here. He could have posted on the Osteopathic forum, but didn't want to because it "doesn't get enough traffic" even though had he posted this there, I am sure people would have responded with the same outrage. But instead he posted here, making people think he went to an allopathic school, and then posting the "no-name osteopathic school" curveball. I understand the OP's frustration (I would be upset too) but posting this in the MD forum is just making it worse when it comes to how Osteopathic schools are viewed. Also, like the above poster said, I am pretty sure this is not acceptable for either accreditiing body, and it is unacceptable, but it just seemed like a post that was put in a forum specifically to slight the DO school, not just a medical school.
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You've made valid points.

This is a big loss for the governing body of osteopathic schools. It's clear this shouldn't be happening. On the other hand, high quality DO schools likely won't be affected by this.
 
Total180 said:
I am sure the situation is real, but I am pretty sure the OP was trying to start some sort of DO vs. MD thing here.
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Perhaps the OP wished to avoid retaliation by the management of his no-name school by posting here. This is not an MD vs DO issue, this is a school- and rotation-specific issue.
 
gerdman said:
Perhaps the OP wished to avoid retaliation by the management of his no-name school by posting here. This is not an MD vs DO issue, this is a school- and rotation-specific issue.
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If it happens at DO schools and not MD schools, then it is a "MD vs DO" issue. Not the traditional fighting that goes on here, but just in that one group of schools has a problem the others don't. If it happens at MD schools too, then it is just a med school problem.

Anyway, I am curious what is going on here. Were you assigned to the circulating nurse? The scrub tech/nurse? Or just to a certain OR?

Like someone posted above, some CRNA's or NP's can be great teachers. Now, clearly for surgery this probably isn't appropriate, but still I'm just curious.
 
I am assigned to a CRNFA insert other random alphabet soup. So she is not a CRNA or an NP She is a first assist. So while i do learn basics like scrubbing in and suturing im missing the whole indications for surgery and post op care, etc etc. I attempt to review pt chart beforehand to get the story but have noone to field medical questions to.
 
sylvanthus said:
Just sucks not having a physician to really turn to for questions and guidance.
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You should be able to find someone to help you with this informally. Find a surgeon who you like working with in the OR and explain your situation, and ask if he'd be willing to have you follow him around. At this point, you need to be taking responsibility for your education because it appears your school really doesn't care, and the management outside the OR is a major part of the surgery rotation (not to mention the bulk of the shelf).
 
Sheldor said:
If it happens at DO schools and not MD schools, then it is a "MD vs DO" issue. Not the traditional fighting that goes on here, but just in that one group of schools has a problem the others don't. If it happens at MD schools too, then it is just a med school problem.
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This is happening at the DO school the OP is paying good money to attend. Don't generalize this to all DO schools unless you have data. The disparity in clinicals between the established schools and the newer private schools is well known.
 
K31 said:
You should be able to find someone to help you with this informally. Find a surgeon who you like working with in the OR and explain your situation, and ask if he'd be willing to have you follow him around. At this point, you need to be taking responsibility for your education because it appears your school really doesn't care, and the management outside the OR is a major part of the surgery rotation (not to mention the bulk of the shelf).
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The fact that we even have threads like this goes a long way toward explaining why DOs are subject to so much discrimination in the match.
 
Untraditional said:
The fact that we even have threads like this goes a long way toward explaining why DOs are subject to so much discrimination in the match.
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How do you extrapolate a single person's experience with a single rotation at a brand new school to the legitimacy of the entire osteopathic profession?

It's funny how when everyone thought this was a MD school the reaction was that the LCME is going to be pissed but then when it turns out it's a DO school it's then assumed that this is sanctioned by COCA?

I would not be surprised to find out that this is the hospital's first time working with students and is either going to get dropped or a very stern talking to.

I just think it's a part of the risk of going to a new school, not a risk of going to an osteopathic school.
 
Interesting.... I kind of had a feeling PNWU wasn't a very good school (read your history to find out your school). This confirms it.

This situation definitely doesnt represent all DO schools, just the lower ones
 
sylvanthus said:
I attempt to review pt chart beforehand to get the story but have noone to field medical questions to.
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I'm not an expert on OR protocol, but don't most OR nurses spend their entire day mere inches from an actual surgeon?
 
Aye, during the surgery itself. But, walking in and asking why this patient is getting surgery makes you look like you haven't done the research and read the chart and I would feel like a tool. So, I try and be prepared before the surgery, so I can focus on the surgery itself.

But, when I am reading the chart and reviewing info before the case, I do not have someone to turn to for questions. Most schools I assume have the students following the patients pre-op so they know the story and are with the surgeons in the clinic to discuss upcoming cases. I have like 15 min before the case to find out what is going on.
 
drctother said:
Interesting.... I kind of had a feeling PNWU wasn't a very good school (read your history to find out your school). This confirms it.

This situation definitely doesnt represent all DO schools, just the lower ones
Click to expand...


Not quite sure what the point of this was? You can look through post history? Congrats? No need to call the school out directly unless you are just attempting to stir things up.
 
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