1)Pediatric cards fellowship vs just peds. 2) Does the job I want even exist

[Destalchemy]

Hey everyone, just a few questions that maybe havent been asked too much before:

1a) How does the job atmosphere differ between 1 year cards/1 year peds anesthesiology fellows vs 1 year peds fellows? Interested primarily in hospital work but info regarding any practice model would be appreciated!

1b) What are the primary advantages of/reasons to go into cards peds over just peds?
- Salary?
- Job opportunities/marketability/security?
- More asa >3 cases for those with an
interest in care for critical children?
- Intellecutal stimulation?
- Prestige?
- Combination of above?

2a) What are the current, primary academic or private w/ academic affiliation employment models in peds anesthesiology?
- Ratio of clinician-only vs clinician-
educator vs clinicial-researcher
opportunities?
- Do most clinician-educators have
administrative duties or can you easily find positions with just teaching?
- How badly is salary capped in academia
when focus on administration and
research is minimal? Is it only the program
directors and full professors who
approach private practice numbers? Are clinicians and clinician-educators doomed to a low salary forever?

2b) Lastly, what are the most common care models an applicant would find in peds anesthesiology vs adult?
- Mostly/all supervision? Residents or crna?
- Mostly/all solo?
- 50/50 split?

My dream job would be a) doing >90% peds, b) with a majority of cases asa >2, c) doing solo cases at least 25% of the time, d) while working <60hours a week, and e) making >25% MGMA average across career with f) no research.

Is this even a job that exists? Am I in la-la land? I am willing to budge on everything but a,b, and d. I do not want more than 10% of my patients to be adult, I do not want the majority to be healthy, and I do not want to work >60 hours except maybe right out of fellowship. Surely this is possible, right? As long as those three criteria are met I am willing to go private vs academic, even make lower than 25% mgma on average across career (as long as hours dont exceed 60!), never do a solo case again (def not preferable though), have lower than average vacation and benefits, do research/administration, take call, move to any city, or do a cardiac fellowship.

Tl;DR
I just want to provide care through anasthesia to sick children while not being in the bottom percentile for salary while simultaneously being in the top percentile for hours worked. I am literally open to anything else potentially. What would my typical job offer look like? Is this why people do cardiac peds fellowships - to work solely on sick kids while not making bottom tier money with terrible lifestyle?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[nimbus]

1. Yes the job exists.
2. The chance that you’ll still want to do pediatric cardiac anesthesia 8 or 9 years from now when it is time to decide is close to zero.

 

[kidthor]

FOCUS

If you want to do peds cardiac anesthesia, you can do it and find a job. End of story. Don't worry about all that other stuff you asked about.

 

[nimbus]

FOCUS

If you want to do peds cardiac anesthesia, you can do it and find a job. End of story. Don't worry about all that other stuff you asked about.

OP is a premed. They’ll need to stay focused for a very long time.

 

[2010houston]

You would do pedi anesthesia and then pedi CV anesthesia (another year after pedi fellowship). This is DEFINITELY very employable at a good salary at the moment; no one can say for sure what it will be 10yrs from now - but if anything surgeons are operating on MORE kids with congenital heart disease and not less; I imagine it will be fine. These goals are definitely achievable assuming you have the work ethic, get the appropriate test scores, and most importantly, actually like anesthesia —> pedi anesthesia —> pedi CV anesthesia. Good luck to you.

 

[Destalchemy]

I deserve to be roasted for this, I know. I thought they'd be good questions for residents and medical students interested in peds to be able to reference. That's what I told myself writing it up anyway.

I will take my walk of shame now.

 

[vector2]

Hey everyone, just a few questions that maybe havent been asked too much before:

1a) How does the job atmosphere differ between 1 year cards/1 year peds anesthesiology fellows vs 1 year peds fellows? Interested primarily in hospital work but info regarding any practice model would be appreciated!

1b) What are the primary advantages of/reasons to go into cards peds over just peds?
- Salary?
- Job opportunities/marketability/security?
- More asa >3 cases for those with an
interest in care for critical children?
- Intellecutal stimulation?
- Prestige?
- Combination of above?

2a) What are the current, primary academic or private w/ academic affiliation employment models in peds anesthesiology?
- Ratio of clinician-only vs clinician-
educator vs clinicial-researcher
opportunities?
- Do most clinician-educators have
administrative duties or can you easily find positions with just teaching?
- How badly is salary capped in academia
when focus on administration and
research is minimal? Is it only the program
directors and full professors who
approach private practice numbers? Are clinicians and clinician-educators doomed to a low salary forever?

2b) Lastly, what are the most common care models an applicant would find in peds anesthesiology vs adult?
- Mostly/all supervision? Residents or crna?
- Mostly/all solo?
- 50/50 split?

My dream job would be a) doing >90% peds, b) with a majority of cases asa >2, c) doing solo cases at least 25% of the time, d) while working <60hours a week, and e) making >25% MGMA average across career with f) no research.

Is this even a job that exists? Am I in la-la land? I am willing to budge on everything but a,b, and d. I do not want more than 10% of my patients to be adult, I do not want the majority to be healthy, and I do not want to work >60 hours except maybe right out of fellowship. Surely this is possible, right? As long as those three criteria are met I am willing to go private vs academic, even make lower than 25% mgma on average across career (as long as hours dont exceed 60!), never do a solo case again (def not preferable though), have lower than average vacation and benefits, do research/administration, take call, move to any city, or do a cardiac fellowship.

Tl;DR
I just want to provide care through anasthesia to sick children while not being in the bottom percentile for salary while simultaneously being in the top percentile for hours worked. I am literally open to anything else potentially. What would my typical job offer look like? Is this why people do cardiac peds fellowships - to work solely on sick kids while not making bottom tier money with terrible lifestyle?

OP is a premed. They’ll need to stay focused for a very long time.

OP, your dream job does sound consistent with pediatric fellowship














in orthodontics

 

[dchz]

I deserve to be roasted for this, I know. I thought they'd be good questions for residents and medical students interested in peds to be able to reference. That's what I told myself writing it up anyway.

I will take my walk of shame now.

Legit advice for OP:

Nail the MCAT, go to a school that doesn't cost an arm and leg (under $20k tuition per year). Hit up that cutie in your pre med class and see if she wants to "study" together . Learn you basic sciences, anatomy, and physiology. Don't forget to hit on girls. Stay true to being a scientist at heart. Revisit this as an MS3 after you've done majority of your clinical rotations. Work on your flirting skills.

In about a decade, you might realize that anesthesia for pedi heart, while very interesting physiology, is very meh (you don't get to do the TEE, which is about 60% of the fun of a cardiac case). Then you'd wish you paid a little more attention to that cute nurse that was flirting with you during your cardiac rotation, but now you're left there alone holding a TEE probe in your hand all lubed up and no where to put it.

 

[IlDestriero]

Your dream job exists and it’s not a unicorn. Where things are 10+ years from now is anyone’s guess. I’ll be looking at the ocean with my feet up.

 

[invitro]

Definitely doable as of now. Agree with above posters....pedi cardiac has a lot of benefits but adult cardiac is more marketable and has a better financial future (higher salary, more job opps) then pedi cardiac. This is true for most specialities in terms of peds vs adult comparisions (ped neurosx vs adult neurosx, ped cardiology vs adult cardiology etc). I do 100% pedi cardiac and salaries can range from high 200s (top academic centers) to >700k (in certain private practices). Most pedi anesthesiologists don't want to do the extra year as the bump up in salary is not much (base is equal to the general peds guys in my children's hospital, but I make slightly more due to more call) and the stress level (sicker children, lower cardiac/respiratory reserve for patients) is significantly higher. If you want to work <60 hours it's doable but you aren't gonna get 750k in private practice doing that.

Women wise, if you have game and look good (facial/body aesthetics) it's cake. Read "Game" by Roosh V or any other book with a similar topic. Start working out and eating right; you'll feel and look much better. Remember you are gonna be making more than 95% of the men out there and women tend to gravitate to "peds" people as they think they are sweet and caring...it's a good combo. Plus most pedi hospitals have a high female employee headcount so you do the math. Don't get with the women you work with; there is a lot of truth to don't s**t where you eat. Will say this as someone who has played the field....it's probably better to get with a good, decent woman that meets your needs (emotionally/physically) and be one and done. More fulfilling, and way better to spend your energy elsewhere (outside investments, work, family, spiritual activities) than constantly chasing and smashing new women in terms of ROI.

 

[vector2]

Women wise, if you have game and look good (facial/body aesthetics) it's cake.

Are you telling OP if he's as charming as Paul Rudd and as good looking as Brad Pitt that women will want him??? Holy f’ing sht gimme a minute to get a notepad so I can write all this pure gold down

 

[Stone Cold]

I do 100% pedi cardiac and salaries can range from high 200s (top academic centers) to >700k (in certain private practices)

Is the 700k range even true? I've never heard of any peds cards attending make over $450k even in PP. Most Peds Cards folks I know of make $300-400k based on their location which is along the lines of PICU & NICU as well

Now that Peds Cards market is kinda saturated, I've seen PICU and NICU folks get more lucrative job offers. Almost all Peds Cards attendings in my program advised me against pursuing Peds Cards fellowship

 

[coffeebythelake]

Don't go in with a preconceived idea of what you want. It will change.

 

[deleted162650]

Almost all Peds Cards attendings in my program advised me against pursuing Peds Cards fellowship

Job security

 

[deleted697127]

Don't go in with a preconceived idea of what you want. It will change.

I think a large percent of ortho, plastics, ED, and OB would probably disagree with this.

 

[PTPoeny]

Is the 700k range even true? I've never heard of any peds cards attending make over $450k even in PP. Most Peds Cards folks I know of make $300-400k based on their location which is along the lines of PICU & NICU as well

Now that Peds Cards market is kinda saturated, I've seen PICU and NICU folks get more lucrative job offers. Almost all Peds Cards attendings in my program advised me against pursuing Peds Cards fellowship

I'm pretty sure OP is talking about pediatric cardiac anesthesiology and not pediatric cardiology. Based on your NICU and PICU comparison I suspect you are thinking pediatric cardiology.

Why are we assuming OP is interested in women? ‍♀️

 

[Stone Cold]

I'm pretty sure OP is talking about pediatric cardiac anesthesiology and not pediatric cardiology. Based on your NICU and PICU comparison I suspect you are thinking pediatric cardiology.

My bad, didn't notice the thread was in Anesthesiology section...gotcha

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Hey everyone, just a few questions that maybe havent been asked too much before:

1a) How does the job atmosphere differ between 1 year cards/1 year peds anesthesiology fellows vs 1 year peds fellows? Interested primarily in hospital work but info regarding any practice model would be appreciated!

1b) What are the primary advantages of/reasons to go into cards peds over just peds?
- Salary?
- Job opportunities/marketability/security?
- More asa >3 cases for those with an
interest in care for critical children?
- Intellecutal stimulation?
- Prestige?
- Combination of above?

2a) What are the current, primary academic or private w/ academic affiliation employment models in peds anesthesiology?
- Ratio of clinician-only vs clinician-
educator vs clinicial-researcher
opportunities?
- Do most clinician-educators have
administrative duties or can you easily find positions with just teaching?
- How badly is salary capped in academia
when focus on administration and
research is minimal? Is it only the program
directors and full professors who
approach private practice numbers? Are clinicians and clinician-educators doomed to a low salary forever?

2b) Lastly, what are the most common care models an applicant would find in peds anesthesiology vs adult?
- Mostly/all supervision? Residents or crna?
- Mostly/all solo?
- 50/50 split?

My dream job would be a) doing >90% peds, b) with a majority of cases asa >2, c) doing solo cases at least 25% of the time, d) while working <60hours a week, and e) making >25% MGMA average across career with f) no research.

Is this even a job that exists? Am I in la-la land? I am willing to budge on everything but a,b, and d. I do not want more than 10% of my patients to be adult, I do not want the majority to be healthy, and I do not want to work >60 hours except maybe right out of fellowship. Surely this is possible, right? As long as those three criteria are met I am willing to go private vs academic, even make lower than 25% mgma on average across career (as long as hours dont exceed 60!), never do a solo case again (def not preferable though), have lower than average vacation and benefits, do research/administration, take call, move to any city, or do a cardiac fellowship.

Tl;DR
I just want to provide care through anasthesia to sick children while not being in the bottom percentile for salary while simultaneously being in the top percentile for hours worked. I am literally open to anything else potentially. What would my typical job offer look like? Is this why people do cardiac peds fellowships - to work solely on sick kids while not making bottom tier money with terrible lifestyle?

A) Yes, B) Yes, C) Maybe?, D) Yes, E) Maybe?, F) Yes

There's a lot of stuff that sounds cool when it's theoretical, but less cool when you're actually in it. I do 85-90% peds, 2-3 days a week peds cardiac (OR or cath lab), solo rarely (uncomplicated cath lab or VIR cases usually, though to be honest for a lot of cases the resident or CRNA is just a set of helping hands), usually work 40-50 hours a week, salary is OK, no research but teaching/simulation/admin stuff. One of our fellows took a peds cardiac job at a private group in the state and will make close to 2X what I'm making (probably working a little more).

I do like the acuity, and the mental challenge, and the physiology, etc, but it wears on you after awhile. Some of these kids will try to die on you. And you can be amazing at your job, but eventually it's all a numbers game. You can only dodge so many bullets before one catches up to you. You need the healthy(ish) kids to break it up after awhile. Kudos to the people who are in the cardiac ORs 5 days a week. Though to be fair, if we had more straightforward VSDs/ASDs/Tets, it might be easier. As a public state school, we tend to get the funky/abnormal stuff (not in the good way) and the clean, straightforward stuff gets gobbled up by the private practice or private academic hospitals in the state.

 

[chocomorsel]

Legit advice for OP:

Nail the MCAT, go to a school that doesn't cost an arm and leg (under $20k tuition per year). Hit up that cutie in your pre med class and see if she wants to "study" together . Learn you basic sciences, anatomy, and physiology. Don't forget to hit on girls. Stay true to being a scientist at heart. Revisit this as an MS3 after you've done majority of your clinical rotations. Work on your flirting skills.

In about a decade, you might realize that anesthesia for pedi heart, while very interesting physiology, is very meh (you don't get to do the TEE, which is about 60% of the fun of a cardiac case). Then you'd wish you paid a little more attention to that cute nurse that was flirting with you during your cardiac rotation, but now you're left there alone holding a TEE probe in your hand all lubed up and no where to put it.

How do you know the OP isn’t a girl herself?

 

[chocomorsel]

I'm pretty sure OP is talking about pediatric cardiac anesthesiology and not pediatric cardiology. Based on your NICU and PICU comparison I suspect you are thinking pediatric cardiology.

Why are we assuming OP is interested in women? ‍♀

Because the assumption is that OP is a straight male. Not a woman, and not a gay man. I had the exact same thoughts as you.
And every day, I am surrounded by mostly older men at work, so it’s semi true.
Hello 2020!!!

 

[nimbus]

Because the assumption is that OP is a straight male. Not a woman, and not a gay man. I had the exact same thoughts as you.
And every day, I am surrounded by mostly older men at work, so it’s semi true.
Hello 2020!!!

That may be due to the locations where you work. Women physicians tend to cluster in large metro areas because there are more career opportunities for their spouses and significant others. We have many young female doctors where I work.

 

[chocomorsel]

That may be due to the locations where you work. Women physicians tend to cluster in large metro areas because there are more career opportunities for their spouses and significant others. We have many young female doctors where I work.

And you are probably right. I work in mid to small towns. Still very behind the times.
Hmm, why is the opposite not true? Or is it? Do men go to smaller towns and their spouses don’t work or don’t need good jobs? I can see the traditional women role at play some.
But why did people make the assumption the OP was a male tho?

 

[nimbus]

And you are probably right. I work in mid to small towns. Still very behind the times.
Hmm, why is the opposite not true? Or is it? Do men go to smaller towns and their spouses don’t work or don’t need good jobs? I can see the traditional women role at play some.
But why did people make the assumption the OP was a male tho?

Maybe it is the tone of the post. I have to admit I assumed the OP was male too.

 

[deleted162650]

But why did people make the assumption the OP was a male tho?

‘Cuz everyone knows women can’t handle pedi hearts. Duh.

 

[PTPoeny]

‘Cuz everyone knows women can’t handle pedi hearts. Duh.

See, the walk of shame comment made me think OP sounded female. So I was confused for a second as to why people assumed lesbian before I realized everyone else assumed male.

 

[martvubo]

I'm not sure it was an assumption that OP was male. Many responses alluded to the fact that he is a pre-med-- a fact gleaned from his post history and not in the original post. Post history also refers to himself with male pronoun. Doesn't seem like a huge stretch.

 

[Destalchemy]

I'm a straight male. The walk of shame comment was because I had recently watched game of thrones

 

[deleted162650]

I'm a straight male. The walk of shame comment was because I had recently watched game of thrones

Walk of Atonement.

 

[Twiggidy]

I feel like statistically people lingering on internet forums tend to be dudes, especially in anesthesia where about 1 out of 4 are female. Everyone had a 75% of guessing correct (and did guess correct....at least on the male part)