1099 vs. W-2

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What duties?
“Office manager “ is the official title.

You guys are paranoid.

This is all common

As common as crna’s paying themselves 40k in w2 salary as 1099 cause they are “nurses”

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So, nothing. OK, at least you're now admitting it's tax fraud. :thumbup:
And 90% of congressional people do the same. Except they are using taxpayer money.
 
For a solo private practice surgeon with an office and staff? Sure.

For an anesthesiologist with a home office? That’s a bit hard to sell.
Nope. Side gig for surgeons when they do locums.
 
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My ortho and plastic surgeon buddies put their wives on the payroll. This is not uncommon.

This has been going on for the last 50-60 years folks. It’s not something new.

Now people stop putting their kids on the payroll around 30 years ago. But the spouse with official duties is legit expense.


Do their wives actually work in the office? 50-60 yrs ago, it was common for spouses to actually do billing and bookkeeping in the office.
 
So your defense is other people are unethical or lazy, so that excuses your criminal tax fraud?

Keep digging.
Again. It’s not criminal when the spouse/employee physically books hotels for ur locums assignment. When the spouse physically arranges taxes and organizes files.

Physically sends emails to accountants to file quarterly taxes

All legit my friend. I AirPlay responding to emails on my 77 inch lg oled that has hdmi cable as well. That’s a legit purchase. Cause I rarely watch any tv at all. All pics of office work filed away as well.

What’s criminal is business running negative for years.
 
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I think booking hotels and lining up different locum jobs is absolutely legit work. It’s time that I would have spent without being paid….

Also if I remember correctly warren buffett’s effective tax rate is less than 1%. They have an army of lawyers just to shelter them from real tax burden…. And yet we are sitting here to talk about what’s “legitimate” business spending…. No wonder we are now all working for business people.

Here some citation for those who want to check it out.

“The article said that according to ProPublica's calculations, Buffett's "true tax rate" was just 0.1%, or $23.7 million in taxes he paid on wealth growth of $24.3 billion, during the five-year time frame. During that period, Buffett, CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, reported legally taxable income of $125 million.”
 
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I heard it on the radio one day. The reason why they go after “high” earners but not “ultra high” earners is just to unwind all the shell corporations will take ungodly kind of hours.

Also the reporter who did the investigation actually contacted Warren Buffett and asked him why he wouldn’t pay his fair share of taxes….. Warrens response was that he’s already giving away all his fortunate, and he thinks that he can spent money better than the government. Sure it sounds great, but at the same time “we” (the people who can’t escape tax burden) are left holding the bags of governmental programs.

The whole thing was just fascinating to me.
 
Look. I’ve kept a detail list of all my transactions for almost the last 20 years.

If I’m taking a travel cme say on a cruise. Cruise with the family is 16k. My portion of the cruise is 5k. So I do travel cme. I write off 5k. I don’t write let the 16k. And I have the cme certificate.

I’m not worried about any audit.

Irs has corresponded with me twice. One time for over funding partial year shutdown of 401k. Got that resolved.

Other time was 5500ez form error.

Took care of both of that.

I know my taxes. Better than my accountant. But I still use my accountant just to double check things. I catch their own mistakes often. I’m that good knowing all the rules.

But we need to get to the crux.

500k Envison job 45-50 hours 10 weeks off (have to take full week off). W2

State academic job 450k plus generous benefits and 9 weeks off. W2. 457/402/401a. Free healthcare 45 hours a week

500k 1099 job no benefits 45 hours a wwek

Which job is better? The state academic job is the better cause of the benefit is better.

Now if u made 600k 1099 45 hours a week. That the math will favor the 1099 job.
 
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Look. I’ve kept a detail list of all my transactions for almost the last 20 years.

If I’m taking a travel cme say on a cruise. Cruise with the family is 16k. My portion of the cruise is 5k. So I do travel cme. I write off 5k. I don’t write let the 16k. And I have the cme certificate.

I’m not worried about any audit.

Irs has corresponded with me twice. One time for over funding partial year shutdown of 401k. Got that resolved.

Other time was 5500ez form error.

Took care of both of that.

I know my taxes. Better than my accountant. But I still use my accountant just to double check things. I catch their own mistakes often. I’m that good knowing all the rules.

But we need to get to the crux.

500k Envison job 45-50 hours 10 weeks off (have to take full week off). W2

State academic job 450k plus generous benefits and 9 weeks off. W2. 457/402/401a. Free healthcare 45 hours a week

500k 1099 job no benefits 45 hours a wwek

Which job is better? The state academic job is the better cause of the benefit is better.

Now if u made 600k 1099 45 hours a week. That the math will favor the 1099 job.
i tried to PM you but it won't let me start a conversation with you.
can you explain more about travel cme? i understand you can expense the actual CME online course package, but does this automatically make your portion of travel expenses now a "work" trip? Or are you traveling to destinations where you also purposefully attend a CME course in person? Or both?
 
My ortho and plastic surgeon buddies put their wives on the payroll. This is not uncommon.

This has been going on for the last 50-60 years folks. It’s not something new.

Now people stop putting their kids on the payroll around 30 years ago. But the spouse with official duties is legit expense.
How big is their office and how many others do they employ? I would assume that their practices are more complex and overhead much higher than an anesthesiologist. I know dentists that do the same but they have hygenists and assistants to deal with. Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered.
 
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How big is their office and how many others do they employ? I would assume that their practices are more complex and overhead much higher than an anesthesiologist. I know dentists that do the same but they have hygenists and assistants to deal with. Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered.
What happens when you wanna fire your wife? She can sue you for sex harassment.. Prob not a good idea to hire your wife.. Keep things separate
 
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i tried to PM you but it won't let me start a conversation with you.
can you explain more about travel cme? i understand you can expense the actual CME online course package, but does this automatically make your portion of travel expenses now a "work" trip? Or are you traveling to destinations where you also purposefully attend a CME course in person? Or both?
The travel cme you can name any location you want. It’s very simple. It will print out the location date cme certificate you choose

Expense it under education.
 
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i tried to PM you but it won't let me start a conversation with you.
can you explain more about travel cme? i understand you can expense the actual CME online course package, but does this automatically make your portion of travel expenses now a "work" trip? Or are you traveling to destinations where you also purposefully attend a CME course in person? Or both?

Look at the other thread talking about ski conferences.

Literally just learned about this today.



What happens when you wanna fire your wife? She can sue you for sex harassment.. Prob not a good idea to hire your wife.. Keep things separate

If she sues you for sexual harassment, you probably have bigger problem in your hands.

I actually just googled “virtual personal assistant….” They charge $50-80/hr. They cannot go run errands for you, they cannot clean your office, or draw a bath for you.

If they (business owners) can hire a executive assistant, I certainly deserve one too.
 
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Look at the other thread talking about ski conferences.

Literally just learned about this today.





If she sues you for sexual harassment, you probably have bigger problem in your hands.

I actually just googled “virtual personal assistant….” They charge $50-80/hr. They cannot go run errands for you, they cannot clean your office, or draw a bath for you.

If they (business owners) can hire a executive assistant, I certainly deserve one too.
You cant sleep with co-workers especially if they are underlings. Don't you have an Employee Handbook?
 
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Lol. Gold Rolex to tell time which I use at work, my clothes which I wear to work, my washing machine which I use to wash the clothes I wear to work, brand new pool where I read my work emails, my boat which I use for business meetings, 50k trip to Europe where I read uptodate for 3 minutes fully funded cme trip included my employer spouse and 4 kids who I took pictures of and put on my work website that has 100 lifetime views.

Yep seems super legit. I hope the new IRS agents get to hear these totally legitimate business expenses.
 
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Translated: cheating on taxes.
IRS code section 162 begs to differs. It’s legit. Reasonable expense.

What’s the difference between someone paying $1000/night at four seasons hotel vs $200 a night a Marriott residence inn for business expense conference? They are both considered reasonable expense for business.
 
Lol. Gold Rolex to tell time which I use at work, my clothes which I wear to work, my washing machine which I use to wash the clothes I wear to work, brand new pool where I read my work emails, my boat which I use for business meetings, 50k trip to Europe where I read uptodate for 3 minutes fully funded cme trip included my employer spouse and 4 kids who I took pictures of and put on my work website that has 100 lifetime views.

Yep seems super legit. I hope the new IRS agents get to hear these totally legitimate business expenses.
Actually if you are self employed. Buying a $3000 suit for interview is considered a uniform expense as well as dry cleaning services.
 
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IRS code section 162 begs to differs. It’s legit. Reasonable expense.

What’s the difference between someone paying $1000/night at four seasons hotel vs $200 a night a Marriott residence inn for business expense conference? They are both considered reasonable expense for business.
But wouldnt you rather just spend 200 than 1000? Saved taxes wont make up the difference in absolute dollars spent out of your account
 
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But wouldnt you rather just spend 200 than 1000? Saved taxes wont make up the difference in absolute dollars spent out of your account
Those are personal (and business) choices one can make when self employed. Regarding how much and what exactly gets expensed.

Yes you are “saving” essentially 33% with a write off. But it still cost money like u stated. But that’s the decision you can make how luxurious or cost saving a business expense you want.
 
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I have an S-corp and am 1099. the problem with expenses is you still have to spend money though. It's an easy call when it comes to cars , food, office supplies though. ultimately the best part of it is taking advantage of the dividend component. Although the age old question is "what is reasonable salary" and I hear vastly different figures in pain management. With that being said, you would need to give yourself minimum 240k however to take advantage of the full allowable 60k SEP IRA contributions for yourself.
You can do 401K instead of SEP IRA. self contribution 20.5K. 40.5K for employer part. 40.5x4, 162K W2 compensation.
 
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Actually if you are self employed. Buying a $3000 suit for interview is considered a uniform expense as well as dry cleaning services.
Sure. The Rolex is too. I'm sure the auditor won't find anything concerning buying a 3k suit as an anesthesiologist who wears scrubs.
 
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I prefer to be W-2. I just left a 1099 job for a W-2. I now have better health insurance. My tax situation is simplified.
 
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The travel cme you can name any location you want. It’s very simple. It will print out the location date cme certificate you choose

Expense it under education.

I agree with you on the home office, car, spouse on payroll etc.

I am intrigued by this one. I take some very expensive trips with my family where lodging can easily run 20k for 2 weeks (times maybe 2-3 times a year). I’m obviously not attending an in-person conference (done that too at amazing locations and is a great write off) but would be happy to do a half-hour of CME virtually per night if I can write off an additional 60k/year.

Can you really buy the grand suite on a cruise for your family, do some virtual CME and write off the cabin? Seems like that could be an audit risk.

Gonna ask my accountant about this one. Interested for sure.
 
I think he's saying you can write off YOUR portion, not the whole trip. So, not the full $20k that you're spending for the family. If you're a family of four, then he's saying you could write off your $5k portion of that total trip cost.
 
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I think he's saying you can write off YOUR portion, not the whole trip. So, not the full $20k that you're spending for the family. If you're a family of four, then he's saying you could write off your $5k portion of that total trip cost.
Again imagine telling that to an auditor with a straight face. Unless your write off is explicitly mentioned in tax law or has a court case in your favor, if they disagree with your explanation that you watched a video for 2 hours on a 6k cruise for medical education then it gets figured out in court where that 6k write off is not going to look like such a brilliant move.

The defunded irs over the past generation has lead to widespread complacency for borderline if not overt fraud because the full audit rate was so low. I hope this funding gives them some teeth back and cuts back on the bad actors this lack of enforcement had bred.
 
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The thing about CME deductions is that you are still spending money on the course. If the course isnt any good then that spent money negates much of the tax savings, and the time spent on the course takes away from the vacation time without yielding professional benefit.

Ideal course would be:

1. Good (time spent worthwhile)
2. Not overly time consuming (time to also vacay)
3. Good vacay destination
 
I think he's saying you can write off YOUR portion, not the whole trip. So, not the full $20k that you're spending for the family. If you're a family of four, then he's saying you could write off your $5k portion of that total trip cost.

If I do an in-person conference at the ritz in Hawaii of course I don’t write off my kids and wife’s plane flights and food. But I do write off the entire (very expensive) hotel stay, plus rental car because I would have needed a room and car anyway. That can account for 75% of the trip cost. And it doesn’t matter if you buy a suite (I would avoid 2 rooms though). And my accountant says that’s totally legit.

If really you can do the same for a virtual conference, I’m unsure. Seems sketchy but that is what he’s saying (I think). If the logic actually holds it would be no different.
 
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I agree with you on the home office, car, spouse on payroll etc.

I am intrigued by this one. I take some very expensive trips with my family where lodging can easily run 20k for 2 weeks (times maybe 2-3 times a year). I’m obviously not attending an in-person conference (done that too at amazing locations and is a great write off) but would be happy to do a half-hour of CME virtually per night if I can write off an additional 60k/year.

Can you really buy the grand suite on a cruise for your family, do some virtual CME and write off the cabin? Seems like that could be an audit risk.

Gonna ask my accountant about this one. Interested for sure.
There is a breakdown on the cruise invoice. The first two guest are always the most expensive

So my last cruise was 15k for royal sky suites on rcl. The 3/4th guest were $1500 each approximately. So first two guest were 6k each.

U write off ur 6k.

So a cruise isn’t the most cost effective cost write off

Stay at real resort in Turks and Caicos and u can write off the entire hotel stay since it’s booked under ur name.
 
Hold up, So what's the process on how to get travel CME credit? How do you show proof of doing an online CME when you're traveling on vacation? Is there a certain website that offers this? I'm a W2 but I would like to submit for my 3.5k CME allowance :)
 
There is a breakdown on the cruise invoice. The first two guest are always the most expensive

So my last cruise was 15k for royal sky suites on rcl. The 3/4th guest were $1500 each approximately. So first two guest were 6k each.

U write off ur 6k.

So a cruise isn’t the most cost effective cost write off

Stay at real resort in Turks and Caicos and u can write off the entire hotel stay since it’s booked under ur name.

So I just emailed my accountant since I was definitely interested (and I’m into taking every legitimate tax break I can). Have a grande suite RCL booked for 15k coming up, wouldn’t mind a partial write off too.

He says this used to be ok but due to widespread abuse the IRS has specifically written rules about cruises severely limiting deductions. He says it has to generally be a North American ship in certain North American ports, and generally is limited to 2k or a (small) per diem based on govt employee standards, except for the actual conference registration fee. He also said unless the activity was actually on board, he’d be careful since there are “necessary” clauses in the guidance and if you can do the material from your home office, it may be illegitimate when it comes to an audit.

I trust this guy since he’s been doing my accounting for 15 years, and specializes in doctors. Definitely tries to maximize all my legal shelters over the years. Will you get caught? Who knows - but sounds not 100% by the books.

I’m sticking to my Hawaii or European in-person resort deductions. They can’t argue it wasn’t necessary if the conference was actually at XYZ resort with live speakers.
 
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So I just emailed my accountant since I was definitely interested (and I’m into taking every legitimate tax break I can).

He says this used to be ok but due to widespread abuse the IRS has specifically written rules about cruises severely limiting deductions. He says it has to generally be a North American ship in certain North American ports, and generally is limited to 2k or a (small) per diem based on govt employee standards, except for the actual conference registration fee. He also said unless the activity was actually on board, he’d be careful since there are “necessary” clauses in the guidance and if you can do the material from your home office, it may be illegitimate when it comes to an audit.

I trust this guy since he’s been doing my accounting for 15 years, and specializes in doctors. Definitely tries to maximize all my legal shelters over the years.

I’m sticking to my Hawaii or European in-person resort deductions. They can’t argue it wasn’t necessary if the conference was actually at XYZ resort with live speakers.
It has to be "usual and necessary." Online cme on a cruise or literally anywhere besides your home or office is neither. A 3k suit for an anesthesiologist isn't either. Nor is paying your children modelling feels unless they actually professionally model. The hammer will eventually drop on this nonsense.
 
It has to be "usual and necessary." Online cme on a cruise or literally anywhere besides your home or office is neither. A 3k suit for an anesthesiologist isn't either. Nor is paying your children modelling feels unless they actually professionally model. The hammer will eventually drop on this nonsense.
Looked. Like I said. My usual effective tax rate when self employed was 15%.

Considering my w2 (employed effective rate) is around 22%. It’s not like I’m gaming the system driving my effective rate down to 5% like many other people self employed.

But you take the legit deductions when you can as self employed. If you need a formal suit for an interview. 3k is considered legit expense. It’s an interview expense. And there are corporate amc places (my buddy is regional director of one major amc) who expect people to be appropriately dressed for interviews.
 
Hold up, So what's the process on how to get travel CME credit? How do you show proof of doing an online CME when you're traveling on vacation? Is there a certain website that offers this? I'm a W2 but I would like to submit for my 3.5k CME allowance :)


I'm sure there are other companies and courses that offer similar flexibility. Some of my colleagues will actually sign up for in-person conferences in other specialties in order to deduct their vacations. As long as you can provide a certificate with a location and dates, then you should be good.
 
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. As long as you can provide a certificate with a location and dates, then you should be good.

I think that’s wishful thinking. Even their FAQ section about tax deduction says that “we are not tax professionals and consult a CPA about deductions”…. Because they probably know about that IRS very specific guidance.

Again, I’m all for doctors taking the max legal deductions (god knows the ultra wealthy get away with far more). The key though is if it would actually stand in tax court. I’m guessing from my CPA advice that an in-person conference would, but virtual/cruise etc would not.
 
It has to be "usual and necessary." Online cme on a cruise or literally anywhere besides your home or office is neither. A 3k suit for an anesthesiologist isn't either. Nor is paying your children modelling feels unless they actually professionally model. The hammer will eventually drop on this nonsense.

How would the IRS be able to prove in court that an expense was unusual and unnecessary? If not a $3k suit then how much is necessary to spend on a suit? Who decides the amount? Are those interviewing for exclusive private practices allowed to buy more expensive suits than those interviewing at the county hospital?

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

These loopholes will eventually be capped or closed, just like cruise ship conferences were reined in. You may feel it is unfair or morally wrong, but the fact is many folks are just simply taking advantage of widely available tax benefits afforded to them through the law. Your feelings would be better directed toward our elected politicians, who are ultimately the ones enabling this behavior you find to be so despicable.
 
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How would the IRS be able to prove in court that an expense was unusual and unnecessary? If not a $3k suit then how much is necessary to spend on a suit? Who decides the amount?

I agree that it’s not the amount…. You can definitely write off a 3k suit or a 2k/night hotel room, or a luxury SUV as a business expense if you have documentaion, CME event there etc and there is no specific IRS guidance against it.

You can’t just write off a vacation when you did virtual CME though when there is specific guidance against that…. Whatever the certificate from the travel company says is irrelevant.
 
I think that’s wishful thinking. Even their FAQ section about tax deduction says that “we are not tax professionals and consult a CPA about deductions”…. Because they probably know about that IRS very specific guidance.

Again, I’m all for doctors taking the max legal deductions (god knows the ultra wealthy get away with far more). The key though is if it would actually stand in tax court. I’m guessing from my CPA advice that an in-person conference would, but virtual/cruise etc would not.

I think the language in the FAQ is more to absolve them of any legal liability.

But I agree with you. I am generally conservative with travel CME and I keep it to in-person conferences within my specialty. I still fly business class and stay at nice hotels, always paying for breakfast and club access with the room rate. I'm just pointing out that I have had colleagues use that website or sign up for conferences in other specialties and have been able to deduct their vacations.
 
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This whole thread reads like a primer of how to go to jail. And also a clear example of why we just need to implement a flat tax system and be done with all this nonsense. And also how to really piss off high earning W2 doctors.
 
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This whole thread reads like a primer of how to go to jail. And also a clear example of why we just need to implement a flat tax system and be done with all this nonsense. And also how to really piss off high earning W2 doctors.

You should also go back to the other threads that some PP group try to pay people with 1099 to make it more attractive….

I don’t think it’s a recipe for going to jail. It’s operating within “letters of the law…” as I eluded before, I have no doubt those ultra rich earners as well as all those PE entities have whole army of lawyers to sort this out. There was another podcast which basically said that the easiest/fastest way to get rich/keep your wealth is not to pay taxes. I am certainly not advocating defraud the federal government. Until the system is “fixed” I certainly wouldn’t judge anyone who can safely operate within the rules. We all know that “there’s the board answer, and there’s the real answer….”

Hate the game, not the player.
 
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This whole thread reads like a primer of how to go to jail. And also a clear example of why we just need to implement a flat tax system and be done with all this nonsense. And also how to really piss off high earning W2 doctors.
People in other businesses do 10x more shadier things than 1099 paid health care providers.

Vast majority of deductions are legit business expenses.

If you want to go after people. Look at executives shady perks.
1. Chauffeur Drivers perks
2. Second home perks
3. Access to corporate jets for “up to 30 days out of a year “ for personal travel (they trying to crack down on those perks with the 2017 trump tax laws (the irony of trump signing off on banning those corporate jet perks) but who knows what the corporations actually report as business vs personal)

And these are in plain sight of the public. These are considered legit perks and expensed by the parent company.
 
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IMG_1041.jpg


So here’s a photo that I took from my “annual report.”

One can argue running an internal medicine and an anesthesia practice is different. Also, look at the bottom, running a practice and two teenage kids. How much time do you think she can really spend on their practice? I bet she gets 401k, other benefits, as the CFO she’s getting a bonus at end of the year, with a “comparable” salary to boot.

Like I said, that’s why we are sitting on a stool and “they” are making money off of us. We as a profession are too conservative and risk adverse. The most risky thing that I get to do all day is pull the tube a little early, not drop a tube for food impaction, or not using the testing dose for my epidurals.
 
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No

aneftp is "aggressive"

He freely and frequently posts about his colleagues / acquaintances committing tax fraud.

Nothing wrong with a home office deduction if you are careful about it. An anesthesiologist who employs a spouse to knock away another $58K in a 401k is committing a crime, full stop. Seriously - there's nothing legit there. Deductions to bring the tax bill for $1.2M in wages down to a $100K tax bill aren't legit. Come on.

Read his posts. They're on this page in this thread. Let's not all just nod along and pretend it's a good idea.

They've been getting away with it, so far. 87,000 new IRS employees will increase their risk of audit. I don't see how this is really that controversial.
This is correct. My accountant is a CPA, JD, and prior IRS agent. I am 1099 and I have virtually zero deductions that are legit. He says it’s very hard to justify an anesthesiologist deducting much because it would have to be legit for our actial
Work (like if I bought my own anesthesia machine). I pay a lot in Taxes (70-80k) but I know guys who pay less than $20k on a 600k year which is insane and ripe for audit.
 
You do realize that any salary paid to a spouse as an employee is fully taxable both in terms of FICA and Federal? You get to deduct for the 401K portion of her salary but that's it. The real perks are being able to deduct auto, phone, defined benefit plan, etc for the spouse. A reasonable salary for the spouse to act as a secretary or assistant has passed many audits from the IRS. Define reasonable? $28,000? $35,000? $50,000?

Home office, Auto, Malpractice, Retirement plans are the biggest perks of 1099.
 
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