19P on MCAT? Has anyone gotten into a DO school with that?

[Mbeas]

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i dont regard those types of schools as medical schools at all. more like diploma mills, except the diplomas you get are worth as much as the ink printed on them. (not talking about Caribbean schools, just the awful ones that let you in if you have a check and a pulse)

Well, you're right. They basically are diploma mills, by definition. For $200k+, you can get an MD (practicing with said MD is another story). However, you can argue that the big 4 Caribbean schools that you may consider medical schools are also diploma mills. You can take that a step further and argue that certain DO schools are also diploma mills. Y'all know who I'm talking about.

 

[Mbeas]

Its funny....ive never actually met a caribbean GRAD. But I have met like 4 or 5 caribbean dropouts lol.

I've met a Caribbean grad (from Ross). Guess what he does? He teaches MCAT prep for the Princeton Review because he couldn't get a residency. He didn't say that though. He said he wanted to get back to his "roots in teaching" (apparently he was a high school science teacher before he went to Ross U).

P.S. why the hell won't the SDN app on my iPad let me multi quote?

 

[willen101383]

I've met a Caribbean grad (from Ross). Guess what he does? He teaches MCAT prep for the Princeton Review because he couldn't get a residency. He didn't say that though. He said he wanted to get back to his "roots in teaching" (apparently he was a high school science teacher before he went to Ross U).

P.S. why the hell won't the SDN app on my iPad let me multi quote?

Wow...that ****ing sucks. Some people just dont get it. Interestingly enough I know a few good vets from ross who successfully made it back to the stats and now run thriving vet offices.

 

[Mbeas]

Wow...that ****ing sucks. Some people just dont get it. Interestingly enough I know a few good vets from ross who successfully made it back to the stats and now run thriving vet offices.

Yep, and sometimes I feel bad for the naive, immature people who rushed off to the Caribbean without doing their research. This one M3 I talked to from SGU said he didn't know about the DO route when he applied, but he said he would've applied if he knew. Poor bastard.

 

[dntke1518]

Quite depressing really... Be stuck with all that debt and nothing to show for it.

 

[sotto voce]

19P on my Mcat, 3.75gpa with 3.7sgpa. I have taken the Mcat two times already and will try for a third. I admit that I am have the worst test taking skills ever, but will go ahead and apply this for this coming year. I just wanted to know if anyone has ever gotten into a DO school. I know there are a few out there, but what was the "sparkle" that the admissions board saw in you. Please share to give me hope.😳

Hello, sorry to hear about your situation. I found these tables online and hopefully they help you.
---
If you are Hispanic, a 3.75 GPA and 19 MCAT gives you a 41.6% chance of acceptance.
https://www.aamc.org/download/157948/data/table25-h-mcatgpa-grid-hisp.pdf
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If you are Black, 3.75/19 gives you a 12.3% chance of acceptance.
https://www.aamc.org/download/157594/data/table25-b-mcatgpa-grid-black.pdf
---
If you are White, a 3.75/19 gives you a 10.8% chance of acceptance.
https://www.aamc.org/download/157958/data/table25-mcatgpa-grid-white-0911.pdf
---
If you are Asian, a 3.75/19 gives you a 2.7% chance of acceptance
https://www.aamc.org/download/157598/data/table25-a-mcatgpa-grid-asian.pdf
---
Hopefully this helps! Also, these numbers are from AAMC so they don't apply to osteopathic schools. But they're probably close enough for your purposes. The bottom line is that with your GPA/MCAT combination, your chance of acceptance is quite low regardless of your race (at allopathic schools). Good luck.

 

[sotto voce]

Well, you're right. They basically are diploma mills, by definition. For $200k+, you can get an MD (practicing with said MD is another story). However, you can argue that the big 4 Caribbean schools that you may consider medical schools are also diploma mills. You can take that a step further and argue that certain DO schools are also diploma mills. Y'all know who I'm talking about.

Sorry, I don't know anything about the osteopathic schools, but I'm interested in them. Are there ones that are considered "diploma mills"?

 

[Mbeas]

Sorry, I don't know anything about the osteopathic schools, but I'm interested in them. Are there ones that are considered "diploma mills"?

Yes, there are osteopathic schools that are considered diploma mills. I'll direct you to the search bar because I'm not opening that can of worms in this thread.

 

[willen101383]

Yes, there are osteopathic schools that are considered diploma mills. I'll direct you to the search bar because I'm not opening that can of worms in this thread.

Ill open that can of worms.

Rocky Vista. However I am sure they still train fine doctors there.

 

[ljpm8224]

Pa school is probably more competitive than med school. I know of about 30 kids who were gungho premeds then got their ass kicked by the mcat or gpas. Next thing you know, they changed their plans to pa school. The academic quality of applicants may not be as high as md/do schools but I'm willing to bet the quantity of applicants is greater.

^^ x2. Not to mention you have older career changer RT, medic, (even chiropractor) PA applicants who have absolute FIRE OF A THOUSAND SUNS lit under their *sses to get those spots because they're a few years out in the workforce and trying to provide for their families.

OP: Save your $, don't apply this round. Use what you would on applications fees to 50/50 split to
1. a vacation to chillax for a bit and recharge, have fun
2. a prep course WITH ACTUAL IN-PERSON TUTORING ON TEST TAKING SKILLS (essential). When I tutored GMAT (different, but kinda the same), the poor test takers REALLY were able to improve with in-person tutoring... I witnessed huge turnaround through that, much more than anyone with a well-intentioned yet futile attempt at self-directed study.

 

[sotto voce]

Yes, there are osteopathic schools that are considered diploma mills. I'll direct you to the search bar because I'm not opening that can of worms in this thread.

Oh okay. Thanks. I live in Kansas and the only two I've heard of are Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences, and Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine, are those two considered diploma mills?

 

[sotto voce]

Ill open that can of worms.

Rocky Vista. However I am sure they still train fine doctors there.

Oh, I have heard of this one, too. A friend of the family tried to get into medical schools many times but couldn't. I think she ended up getting several master's while she tried to get in. 🙂 She just started at Rocky Vista University. Everyone assumed she was going to U of Colorado because she said she was going to medical school in Colorado.

 

[Mbeas]

Oh okay. Thanks. I live in Kansas and the only two I've heard of are Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences, and Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine, are those two considered diploma mills?

No.

Willen listed one above and there are a few more. Please don't be that guy. Search.

 

[Mbeas]

Ill open that can of worms.

Rocky Vista. However I am sure they still train fine doctors there.

goddammit willen

 

[Bacchus]

Like I said before, this is bigger than the MCAT. Do not waste your money signing up for it before you heed my advice from before.

 

[sotto voce]

No.

Willen listed one above and there are a few more. Please don't be that guy. Search.

Sorry! 🙂 Just one more questi... Just kidding. I'll search.

 

[Mbeas]

Sorry! 🙂 Just one more questi... Just kidding. I'll search.

👍

SDN has a ton of information, and there is no point in highjacking this thread and probably starting a civil war.

 

[hmania]

^^ x2. Not to mention you have older career changer RT, medic, (even chiropractor) PA applicants who have absolute FIRE OF A THOUSAND SUNS lit under their *sses to get those spots because they're a few years out in the workforce and trying to provide for their families.

OP: Save your $, don't apply this round. Use what you would on applications fees to 50/50 split to
1. a vacation to chillax for a bit and recharge, have fun
2. a prep course WITH ACTUAL IN-PERSON TUTORING ON TEST TAKING SKILLS (essential). When I tutored GMAT (different, but kinda the same), the poor test takers REALLY were able to improve with in-person tutoring... I witnessed huge turnaround through that, much more than anyone with a well-intentioned yet futile attempt at self-directed study.

If there is any fantastic tutor in Houston,TX please recommend. The person who tutored me was a former Kaplan tutor for MCAT. I take full responsibility for my lack of scores and just think that I had too many distractions during that time. With the self study, I am nervous about my ability to answer my own questions as well. I have tried kaplan for another test before and felt that they were not as helpful as I thought. Basically, the instructor would rush things and would try to make time by the end of the night. It's hard to come up with a plan of attacking the mcat.

 

[hmania]

Hello, sorry to hear about your situation. I found these tables online and hopefully they help you.
---
If you are Hispanic, a 3.75 GPA and 19 MCAT gives you a 41.6% chance of acceptance.
https://www.aamc.org/download/157948/data/table25-h-mcatgpa-grid-hisp.pdf
---
If you are Black, 3.75/19 gives you a 12.3% chance of acceptance.
https://www.aamc.org/download/157594/data/table25-b-mcatgpa-grid-black.pdf
---
If you are White, a 3.75/19 gives you a 10.8% chance of acceptance.
https://www.aamc.org/download/157958/data/table25-mcatgpa-grid-white-0911.pdf
---
If you are Asian, a 3.75/19 gives you a 2.7% chance of acceptance
https://www.aamc.org/download/157598/data/table25-a-mcatgpa-grid-asian.pdf
---
Hopefully this helps! Also, these numbers are from AAMC so they don't apply to osteopathic schools. But they're probably close enough for your purposes. The bottom line is that with your GPA/MCAT combination, your chance of acceptance is quite low regardless of your race (at allopathic schools). Good luck.

thanks for the post... Great 2.7%. At these times, I wish I was hispanic. But hey its whatevers

 

[sotto voce]

thanks for the post... Great 2.7%. At these times, I wish I was hispanic. But hey its whatevers

The numbers might be different for osteopathic schools but I don't know for sure. Even if you were Hispanic, your chances would still be below 50% which is not that good. 🙁 Those graphs might be useful, too, if you are trying to figure out what your MCAT score needs to be to give you a reasonable shot, depending on your race. I guess the bad thing is that even with a 29 on the MCAT, which I think is a very good score, you would still only have a 44.2% chance of acceptance! Hitting 30 or higher would give you a 50%+ chance of acceptance. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Again, this is only for allopathic schools, and osteopathic schools might be different.

Also, it's quite hard to fix a GPA so you're fine in that respect (your GPA is good).

 

[hmania]

I am sure that statistics has its truths and its flaws. I can only work against the odds as well as anyone on this forum.

Will you be applying too Sotto?

 

[donkeykong1]

post-bacc is your best option.

 

[45408]

I actually know a number of PA's and basically yeah, if you try and do it as a back-up coming out of college there's a snowballs chance in hell of getting in. There are a huge number of people who apply, and basically you have to put your time in working in healthcare for a couple years or else you won't get in.

Four years of working full time in something in healthcare is like their equivalent of a 34 MCAT.

I've worked with more than enough PA students from schools in a large metro area to know that's not true.

 

[hmania]

post-bacc is your best option.

Just out of curiosity, why post bacc? I haven't even finished bachelors... I'm extending my graduation.

 

[hmania]

I've worked with more than enough PA students from schools in a large metro area to know that's not true.

So what is true about PA school rate of acceptance and their "model accepted student"? Just out of curiosity🙂

 

[sotto voce]

I am sure that statistics has its truths and its flaws. I can only work against the odds as well as anyone on this forum.

Will you be applying too Sotto?

Yes, I will be. My GPA dropped significantly this semester and will be around a 3.75, like yours. I'm taking the MCAT at the end of May so who knows how that will turn out.

 

[willen101383]

goddammit willen

lol sowwie

 

[donkeykong1]

Just out of curiosity, why post bacc? I haven't even finished bachelors... I'm extending my graduation.

When you apply, you will probably get harassed by MD/DO schools to apply to their post-bacc program since your GPA is high. It's a good option at schools that have direct acceptance provided you maintain a specific GPA during your post-bacc years

 

[hmania]

When you apply, you will probably get harassed by MD/DO schools to apply to their post-bacc program since your GPA is high. It's a good option at schools that have direct acceptance provided you maintain a specific GPA during your post-bacc years

would you kindly list some, so I would be on the lookout. Please!

 

[donkeykong1]

would you kindly list some, so I would be on the lookout. Please!

meh from off the top of my head..LECOM, all the TOUROs, VCOM...I'm sure there are more. Make sure they are direct acceptance/interview though. I think the TOUROs and VCOM are.

 

[DrWily]

Post-bac is a waste of time and money with your GPA. You don't need to spend $30,000+ for more A's since you already demonstrated your academic prowess. You need to spend $1,000 for tutoring/class and get your MCAT to a 24+. Getting a 19 on the MCAT is 15.8-19.1 percentile. Pretty piss poor.

24-28 apply DO
29+ apply MD too.

 

[user3]

Also see noshie's thread on overcoming low MCAT scores.

 

[hmania]

Post-bac is a waste of time and money with your GPA. You don't need to spend $30,000+ for more A's since you already demonstrated your academic prowess. You need to spend $1,000 for tutoring/class and get your MCAT to a 24+. Getting a 19 on the MCAT is 15.8-19.1 percentile. Pretty piss poor.

24-28 apply DO
29+ apply MD too.

I read in your profile that you got a 33 on the mcat, but had a not-so-great gpa. Were you at the least nervous about that during your application? I wasn't planning on postbac b/c it would mean more money.

 

[DrMediterranean]

retake the mcat. don't worry about anything other than the mcat.

 

[Temperature101]

I've worked with more than enough PA students from schools in a large metro area to know that's not true.

Nowadays, PA schools catter a lot to previous healthcare professionals... RN, LPN/LVN, MEDICS, RAD TECH....and others

 

[DrWily]

I read in your profile that you got a 33 on the mcat, but had a not-so-great gpa. Were you at the least nervous about that during your application? I wasn't planning on postbac b/c it would mean more money.

Yes, I was worried about my GPA since it was 3.14cGPA and 2.96sGPA, which is below average. However, the underdog thread on this forum gave me hope so I went for it. Another student who was very much in my boat (33 MCAT, 2.8 sGPA) got into AZCOM in a previous year (DbDan) and so did I 👍

Originally I was accepted to Boston U's MAMS program (Post-Bac) but the idea of spending $60k for a CHANCE (minimal) at MD schools was not worth it to me so I scrapped that and went for D.O. Obviously I would have liked to go M.D. but it was not an option. D.O. was my only option if I wanted to be a physician, which I care more about than the letters after my name.

 

[se20001984]

Can we stop the carrib bashing???!!!

U will not get accepted with a 19 period

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Can we stop the carrib bashing???!!!

U will not get accepted with a 19 period

They kinda deserve it....

 

[hmania]

lol!

 

[dntke1518]

Post-bac is a waste of time and money with your GPA. You don't need to spend $30,000+ for more A's since you already demonstrated your academic prowess. You need to spend $1,000 for tutoring/class and get your MCAT to a 24+. Getting a 19 on the MCAT is 15.8-19.1 percentile. Pretty piss poor.

24-28 apply DO
29+ apply MD too.

^^ This, there is nooo reason for a post-bacc. Like alot of people have said, focus on the MCAT.

They kinda deserve it....

👍👍

 

[willen101383]

meh from off the top of my head..LECOM, all the TOUROs, VCOM...I'm sure there are more. Make sure they are direct acceptance/interview though. I think the TOUROs and VCOM are.

FWIW I was rejected from both LECOMs and accepted by PCOM. What makes you think LECOM is a diploma mill?

I think we should probably refrain from calling any DO school a diploma mill. I think that sends the message that they are on the same level as ITT tech or University of Phoenix......when in reality I would only consider ONE DO school on that level haha.

 

[TealC]

donkeykong wasn't calling those schools diploma mills, they were talking about guaranteed interview schools.

 

[willen101383]

donkeykong wasn't calling those schools diploma mills, they were talking about guaranteed interview schools.

ahhh yeah I see that now. I am 2 weeks away from the boards...aka I can barely even think anymore.

Sorry DK!

 

[dntke1518]

Good luck willen!

 

[rad0nc]

first time (19P), studied by myself and read/ took notes/ did practice aamc exams all the way until the week of. I average about 24. Not to be too personal about this or earn pity points, but about 1 month before the mcat my sister was killed by a underage drunk driver. That distracted my thoughts. The second time (17O) I had paid a tutor for 5 months straight to help me focus on weak areas, I took it in april (during the school semester with the min. 12hrs (but pretty intense bio classes).

Please do not be offended by what I am about to say. I am just trying to be realistic and give you a fair warning about what you are trying to do.

I have no doubt that you could eventually get into some DO school if you keep trying. The other question you should be asking is should you try to get into medical school. It would be one thing if you had just taken the test once and got a 19, but you also studied for five months and got a 17 O. I doubt if a dumptruck of Adderall can bring that up to a decent score. Also, you can't study for the USMLE exams for 5 months. You will be lucky if you get 5 weeks. In my opinion, the step exams are much more difficult than the MCAT. Your life in medical school would be absolutely miserable.

I feel like too often we encourage people to go to medical school to their own detriment. If you were getting 25-26 than that would be something that was salvageable. These standardized tests are a function of your brain's ability to memorize and interpret information. Unfortunately, not everyone is capable of getting > 30 on the MCAT. This is not a knock on you at all, it just is what it is.

Once again, I am certain that you can get into medical school. However, if you were my personal friend I would tell you to do something more suited towards your individual skills.

 

[michow87]

I'm with most everyone else. I don't think you'll get in anywhere with that MCAT score. If I were you, I would just start studying for the MCAT and take it when you're ready! I have a bunch of friends who got a 37+ and they all advised me not to rush the test.

btw, I recommend the Exam Krackers materials (Books & Audio Osmosis). I studied these materials for a good 4-5 hours a day for about a month and a half and broke 30.

As for the Caribbean schools, anything is possible. there are a lot of horror stories from there, but I know a ton of success stories as well. My brother actually went to RossU because he didn't get into a US MD school. He knew about DO schools, but I think that the letters following his name mattered to him. Who knows. Anyways, he saw the Caribbean as his last chance at being a physician and worked his ass off. With a 258 on his USMLE, he is now training to as a Radiologist at LSU. Anything is possible.

 

[willen101383]

Good luck willen!

Thank you!!!!!! 😀

 

[Mash43]

I have a similar issue. I took the MCAT last year and ended up getting a 24P. I have been studying for about 3 months for the 5/19 test but not as hard as I was last year. My last 4 practice tests scores have been a 21,24,22,22....I want to apply this cycle for D.O. schools only. But since my practice test scores are around my previous score i dont know if it is a good idea to take the test and risk getting a lower score the second time. Should i wait and take the test in august. if so does that put me in a bad position to apply this cycle??
my best score on a practice test last year was a 23 and ended up doing better so i felt a little better but i was still unhappy....I dont know if i should roll the dice and take the test this sat.
any advice would be appreciated! thanks

 

[michow87]

I have a similar issue. I took the MCAT last year and ended up getting a 24P. I have been studying for about 3 months for the 5/19 test but not as hard as I was last year. My last 4 practice tests scores have been a 21,24,22,22....I want to apply this cycle for D.O. schools only. But since my practice test scores are around my previous score i dont know if it is a good idea to take the test and risk getting a lower score the second time. Should i wait and take the test in august. if so does that put me in a bad position to apply this cycle??
my best score on a practice test last year was a 23 and ended up doing better so i felt a little better but i was still unhappy....I dont know if i should roll the dice and take the test this sat.
any advice would be appreciated! thanks

Don't rush it. Take your time and when you're ready, take the exam.

 

[dntke1518]

first time (19P), studied by myself and read/ took notes/ did practice aamc exams all the way until the week of. I average about 24. Not to be too personal about this or earn pity points, but about 1 month before the mcat my sister was killed by a underage drunk driver. That distracted my thoughts. The second time (17O) I had paid a tutor for 5 months straight to help me focus on weak areas, I took it in april (during the school semester with the min. 12hrs (but pretty intense bio classes).

Sorry to hear about your loss by the way... I guess we all kinda missed that.