1st to Declare a Second Obama Term for Presidency

[Mr Wizard]

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I would be really delighted to see your symmetrical diatribe in defence of President George W Bush. If you can' t present anything you'd better keep your double standards quiet.

I am active duty in the military and in all cases I find personal defamation of our POTUS out of line...especially for anyone claiming to endorse different policy direction. Did I laugh at the SNL skits with Will Ferrel playing GW? Sure. I also laughed at their Obama impersonations too.

What I did not do was take frustration and anger at policy choices as a conduit to make personal attacks at someone with who I have never interacted.

 

[bedrock]

Pete Stark - the most anti-MD congressman ever has just been defeated.

Ok, finally some good new about this last election!

 

[hoyden]

I am active duty in the military and in all cases I find personal defamation of our POTUS out of line...especially for anyone claiming to endorse different policy direction. Did I laugh at the SNL skits with Will Ferrel playing GW? Sure. I also laughed at their Obama impersonations too.

What I did not do was take frustration and anger at policy choices as a conduit to make personal attacks at someone with who I have never interacted.

Oh, so there are no similar quotes in defense for the previous POTUS? Exactly as I've thought

Then I do not see any moral right for you to ride this supposedly high horse...

 

[doctor712]

In a lot of states this type of pt is automatically medicaid

So, my friend who makes 100K+ a year in California and whose daughter is the cancer survivor, is free to use Medicaid? Lemme ask him. Income has zilch to do when applying for private insurance so not sure why this is the case. I mean, he wouldn't have written that to me had she not be rejected for Insurance prior. And that sucks.

As for the laryngectomy dude, he's denied the operation under Obamacare, is thy opinion or fact? Curious. Thanks!

D712.

 

[Laryngophed]

It is my understanding that if you've had continuous (I think you have 30 or 60 days between policies) health insurance coverage, then you can't be denied based on a pre-existing condition. It sounds like your friend didn't do that.

 

[jpark1800]

Pete Stark - the most anti-MD congressman ever has just been defeated.

haha i know this is the best news ever.

 

[hoyden]

So, my friend who makes 100K+ a year in California and whose daughter is the cancer survivor, is free to use Medicaid? Lemme ask him. Income has zilch to do when applying for private insurance so not sure why this is the case. I mean, he wouldn't have written that to me had she not be rejected for Insurance prior. And that sucks.

As for the laryngectomy dude, he's denied the operation under Obamacare, is thy opinion or fact? Curious. Thanks!

D712.

His daughter is an adult, as I understand - she can enroll herself, if she will pay her own taxes. In California they have a lot of additional options for the kids ( if she is not). he can get divorced and the mom will have to apply as a single mom, or other way around to play the system.. which he will still have to do with obamacare anyway but we do not know the hidden rocks yet ( except cost).
Sometimes it is worth to contact the social services even if you make 100K a year.

Laryngectomy dude will be denied the operation under ANY government-run system - it's a fact, because the sole purpose of a single payer system is to cut the costs, not to help the patient. There are a lot of unpleasant surprises hidden in that supposedly patient-friendly system and strict rationing is one of them.

Not that I do not agree with a big portion of that. However, it is very interesting to provide care to those patients( and to actually help them) which are long dead in most single payer system countries. And this I can I can tell from personal experience

 

[IlDestriero]

For the rest of yall that always had a silver spoon, sorry for you. Drown yourselves in your Jack Daniels. I stand corrected. Single Malt Scotch it is, so I've been told.

Correct. Single Malt Whisky. It doesn't have to be from Scotland. Plenty of great world whiskies out there.
I'll drown my sorrows in it while I can still afford to. 😉

 

[Stank811]

Oh, so there are no similar quotes in defense for the previous POTUS? Exactly as I've thought

Then I do not see any moral right for you to ride this supposedly high horse...

I will...what aspect do you want me to defend. I feel everyone is way to short sighted in their arguments for or against any president. For example, the classic argument of GW Bush started two wars without being able to fund them....I mean come on do you really believe that? Do you really think the main reason he went to war was to stop the terrorist? Of course not. Most of foreign policy decisions on this grand of scale are thought out decades before they happen. Don't you find it weird that we invaded Afghanistan only to stop the Taliban? Dig a little deeper, please. I would argue that we will get much more than we put into both wars it just would not be good politics to explain to the american people/world in how it was a good investment. And if you want to blame the recession on GW Bush because he de-regulated the financial market please look up the glass-steagall act which was the ultimate force in the snowball effect that caused the massive de-regulation of the financial sector leading to the recession....oh and did I mention it was passed by President Clinton.

 

[doctor712]

His daughter is an adult, as I understand - she can enroll herself, if she will pay her own taxes. In California they have a lot of additional options for the kids ( if she is not). he can get divorced and the mom will have to apply as a single mom, or other way around to play the system.. which he will still have to do with obamacare anyway but we do not know the hidden rocks yet ( except cost).
Sometimes it is worth to contact the social services even if you make 100K a year.

Laryngectomy dude will be denied the operation under ANY government-run system - it's a fact, because the sole purpose of a single payer system is to cut the costs, not to help the patient. There are a lot of unpleasant surprises hidden in that supposedly patient-friendly system and strict rationing is one of them.

Not that I do not agree with a big portion of that. However, it is very interesting to provide care to those patients( and to actually help them) which are long dead in most single payer system countries. And this I can I can tell from personal experience

She's not, she's about 12 years old.

D712

 

[hoyden]

I will...what aspect do you want me to defend. I feel everyone is way to short sighted in their arguments for or against any president. For example, the classic argument of GW Bush started two wars without being able to fund them....I mean come on do you really believe that? Do you really think the main reason he went to war was to stop the terrorist? Of course not. Most of foreign policy decisions on this grand of scale are thought out decades before they happen. Don't you find it weird that we invaded Afghanistan only to stop the Taliban? Dig a little deeper, please. I would argue that we will get much more than we put into both wars it just would not be good politics to explain to the american people/world in how it was a good investment. And if you want to blame the recession on GW Bush because he de-regulated the financial market please look up the glass-steagall act which was the ultimate force in the snowball effect that caused the massive de-regulation of the financial sector leading to the recession....oh and did I mention it was passed by President Clinton.

***sighing***

I am not discussing policies of W vs O. If you missed my point - it is about double standards, my friend 😀

 

[hoyden]

She's not, she's about 12 years old.

D712

It is strange that they didn't explore the options they definitely have. If I was able to enroll my family member on medicaid in a much less friendly state than CA, he should be able too.

 

[Yo GabbaPentin]

So after 24 hours of observing post election touchdown dances and suicide notes, here are my thoughts on the election.

Overall, I'm disappointed in one major thing. I'm disappointed in the way the media covered the election. Both Fox and the other side (CNN, etc) decided that they were going to report on only things that made their side look good. That is not journalism. That is pure bull****.

Overall I am also surprisingly glad about one thing. Overall I'm glad that Obama won. Do I think that Romney would do a better job? Absolutely. But Obama needs to finish what he started. He needs to own his policies. If Romney came in now and things fell apart, then Romney will get the blame. If his policies are successful in turning the economy around, then it is great for the country and I will admit to being wrong. In my opinion, his policies will continue to be bad for the economy. He now owns this and I believe that any validity to blaming Bush will be left in this last campaign.

I am also glad for another reason. The republicans can not keep going in the direction they are going. Romney HAD to flip flop all over the place just to get the nomination. He HAD to pretend to be more conservative than he actually was. This hurt him. In an ideal world, the republican party would die. They would split into the tea party and the libertarian party. This two party system is just nonsense. Our politicians should be allowed to have differing views which are not necessarily the polar opposite of the other side. I'd actually like the democratic party to split into a socialist and more moderate version as well. That way the fringe wacko commies and anarchist tea party members can vote for their candidates.... And each side would likely get Gary Johnson like turnout. The republican party needs to drop religion and abortion talk from their agenda. They also need to pander to minorities, because without some percentage of votes from them, they will never win another election. A major soul searching for that party is in order. Here's to hoping that a third party candidate will emerge in 2016 who is not a joke.

So congrats to president Obama. He asked for four more and now he has it. Clinton, GWB and Obama have created a massive ****storm. And I hope for all of our sakes that he can get us out of it. I am not optimistic. It takes a Carter to get a Reagan and it might take an Obama to get a .....

 

[Perrotfish]

It is strange that they didn't explore the options they definitely have. If I was able to enroll my family member on medicaid in a much less friendly state than CA, he should be able too.

Doesn't medical require your family to be below a certain income bracket?

 

[Perrotfish]

I will...what aspect do you want me to defend. I feel everyone is way to short sighted in their arguments for or against any president. For example, the classic argument of GW Bush started two wars without being able to fund them....I mean come on do you really believe that? Do you really think the main reason he went to war was to stop the terrorist? Of course not. Most of foreign policy decisions on this grand of scale are thought out decades before they happen.

I'm 100% sure that no decision our government makes is part of a strategy spanning multiple decades. We are lucky if they are thought out at all.

 

[hoyden]

Doesn't medical require your family to be below a certain income bracket?

technically yes. but there are many ways to circumvent the system - and therefore you have so many able bodied men and women doing nothing and being payed exactly for that.

 

[GoodmanBrown]

So after 24 hours of observing post election touchdown dances and suicide notes, here are my thoughts on the election.

Overall, I'm disappointed in one major thing. I'm disappointed in the way the media covered the election. Both Fox and the other side (CNN, etc) decided that they were going to report on only things that made their side look good. That is not journalism. That is pure bull****.

Overall I am also surprisingly glad about one thing. Overall I'm glad that Obama won. Do I think that Romney would do a better job? Absolutely. But Obama needs to finish what he started. He needs to own his policies. If Romney came in now and things fell apart, then Romney will get the blame. If his policies are successful in turning the economy around, then it is great for the country and I will admit to being wrong. In my opinion, his policies will continue to be bad for the economy. He now owns this and I believe that any validity to blaming Bush will be left in this last campaign.

I am also glad for another reason. The republicans can not keep going in the direction they are going. Romney HAD to flip flop all over the place just to get the nomination. He HAD to pretend to be more conservative than he actually was. This hurt him. In an ideal world, the republican party would die. They would split into the tea party and the libertarian party. This two party system is just nonsense. Our politicians should be allowed to have differing views which are not necessarily the polar opposite of the other side. I'd actually like the democratic party to split into a socialist and more moderate version as well. That way the fringe wacko commies and anarchist tea party members can vote for their candidates.... And each side would likely get Gary Johnson like turnout. The republican party needs to drop religion and abortion talk from their agenda. They also need to pander to minorities, because without some percentage of votes from them, they will never win another election. A major soul searching for that party is in order. Here's to hoping that a third party candidate will emerge in 2016 who is not a joke.

So congrats to president Obama. He asked for four more and now he has it. Clinton, GWB and Obama have created a massive ****storm. And I hope for all of our sakes that he can get us out of it. I am not optimistic. It takes a Carter to get a Reagan and it might take an Obama to get a .....

I respect your thoughts and agree with a lot of them. Only time will tell what Obamacare will truly bring. I'd be lying if I said I thought it's all going to be wine and roses for doctors. But, I'm cautiously hopeful the good will outweigh the bad.

Regarding the party split thoughts, I think it's true. The GOP is a very conflicted party right now. Certainly the Dems have their fringe as well. Regarding civil liberties, the progressives and the libertarians would probably share a surprising amount of ground. I had Gary Johnson at 68% on isidewith.com which surprised me a bit.

Regarding journalism, I don't disagree, but I think those models are profit centers and will remain the way they are indefinitely. It's up to the citizen to spend time on Fox News, CNN, Slate.com, etc. to find a more rounded opinion. I think it speaks poorly of the electorate that many people get their news from one source. However, people have always wanted to hear others agree with their opinions, so I don't know that it's a new phenomenon. The Internet and cable TV just make it easier to find your desired news source and stay there.

Last point, I would argue that sensible immigration policy isn't pandering. The children of illegal immigrants really haven't done anything wrong. If they're in school and getting good grades, why is it extreme to want those people to stay in the US, pay taxes, and go legit? Undocumented workers pay fewer taxes than US citizens, so if they've committed no crimes, why not get them to start paying early and adopt the US as their home country? As long as this is even considered pandering, I think the GOP will continue to alienate the fastest growing voting bloc in the US.

 

[Perrotfish]

technically yes. but there are many ways to circumvent the system - and therefore you have so many able bodied men and women doing nothing and being payed exactly for that.

Yeah but the problem is when you don't want to do nothing. My brother needed medicaid: he had a number of medical conditions and the cost of his care was in the stratosphere. Until he was 18 we were told we were stuck: we made too much to receive care fro Medicaid, so if we lost our benifits we lose everuthing. Medicaid is an option that we could only take advantage of if everyone quit their jobs and dropped the rest of my family into poverty. That was why Obama area prexisting condition mandate was so important: it gives the middle class Americans who need to buy their insurance the same level of protection from catastrophe as the poor who use government insurance.

 

[Osteoimperfecta]

Reasons Obama won

-Better organised campaign both in strategy and personnel.
-The most negative campaign in the history of the western world run by Obama.
-Changing demographics which the GOP chose to ignore.No Hispanics, no presidency! The math is pretty clear now. Time to swallow our pride and make a play for the hispanic vote. All that stupid crap about "self deportation", "putting mines at the border" sounds great at the GOP primaries, but it is a recipee for disaster at the general elections, and it's about to get worse.
-Women votes, thanks to Limbaugh and the Tea party superstars-Todd Akin, Richard Mourdoch, etc.
-Romney's poor discipline early in the campaign. "Let Detroit go bankrupt" had no political upside when he said it, and it effectively tossed MI and OH in the trash. Sometimes it is safer to shut up.
-Extreme right wing shaping GOP primaries.
-Foxnews complete waste of airtime on BS like Benghazi and Karl Rove instead of hammering away on the economy argument.
-Karl Rove's antiquated comprehension of the U.S electorate. He spent 300 million on multiple races and lost ALL.
-FL, OH, PA secretaries of state making "voter suppression" news. As we now know, it would have served them better if they just let Obama's voters' low enthusiasm cut his numbers down, rather than fire them up with nonsense laws. Some of them are still standing in line to vote in FL as we speak.
-Hurricane Sandy.

As a moderate republican, I am just as pissed at my party as I am at the 50% who chose Obama. Reality for the GOP however is: if we can't beat a president with <50% approval, unemployment at almost 8%, and 1 billion dollars worth of campaigning, then we must have a huge structural problem beginning to manifest and we need to nip it in the bud before we go extinct.

 

[hoyden]

Yeah but the problem is when you don't want to do nothing. My brother needed medicaid: he had a number of medical conditions and the cost of his care was in the stratosphere. Until he was 18 we were told we were stuck: we made too much to receive care fro Medicaid, so if we lost our benifits we lose everuthing. Medicaid is an option that we could only take advantage of if everyone quit their jobs and dropped the rest of my family into poverty. That was why Obama area prexisting condition mandate was so important: it gives the middle class Americans who need to buy their insurance the same level of protection from catastrophe as the poor who use government insurance.

No, it does not - because you still deal with the same unchanged policies of the untouchable insurance companies and contrary to the expected you will still be basically denied coverage for anything more tha prophylactical check ups and your premiums will skyrocket.

It is strange that nobody ever payed attention to the issue of direct dependance of your healthcare bills to the possibility of let go exactly because of that - and this issue is not addressed neither by current system nor by obamacare.

Iam against the socialist model of the economy, but I still consider the singlepayer government system like Canadian the most balanced approach between the patients, the providers and the taxpayers. And if I would have a say in a repubs party I would strongly encourage them to overtake this issue . Too bad they do not play chess 😉

 

[jpark1800]

Reasons Obama won

-Better organised campaign both in strategy and personnel.
-The most negative campaign in the history of the western world run by Obama.
-Changing demographics which the GOP chose to ignore.No Hispanics, no presidency! The math is pretty clear now. Time to swallow our pride and make a play for the hispanic vote. All that stupid crap about "self deportation", "putting mines at the border" sounds great at the GOP primaries, but it is a recipee for disaster at the general elections, and it's about to get worse.
-Women votes, thanks to Limbaugh and the Tea party superstars-Todd Akin, Richard Mourdoch, etc.
-Romney's poor discipline early in the campaign. "Let Detroit go bankrupt" had no political upside when he said it, and it effectively tossed MI and OH in the trash. Sometimes it is safer to shut up.
-Extreme right wing shaping GOP primaries.
-Foxnews complete waste of airtime on BS like Benghazi and Karl Rove instead of hammering away on the economy argument.
-Karl Rove's antiquated comprehension of the U.S electorate. He spent 300 million on multiple races and lost ALL.
-FL, OH, PA secretaries of state making "voter suppression" news. As we now know, it would have served them better if they just let Obama's voters' low enthusiasm cut his numbers down, rather than fire them up with nonsense laws. Some of them are still standing in line to vote in FL as we speak.
-Hurricane Sandy.

As a moderate republican, I am just as pissed at my party as I am at the 50% who chose Obama. Reality for the GOP however is: if we can't beat a president with <50% approval, unemployment at almost 8%, and 1 billion dollars worth of campaigning, then we must have a huge structural problem beginning to manifest and we need to nip it in the bud before we go extinct.

i agree with what you said. romney should've kept his mouth shut. Yea unfortunately the DREAM act will have to pass and the Hispanic community will have to be pandered to in ways never seen before.

Obama is the divider in chief and thats how he won. Black vs white; minorities vs white; gay vs straight; the rich (which according to Obama is 250K) vs the poor; women vs men; business vs workers, etc, etc.

 

[countingdays]

i agree with what you said. romney should've kept his mouth shut. Yea unfortunately the DREAM act will have to pass and the Hispanic community will have to be pandered to in ways never seen before.

Obama is the divider in chief and thats how he won. Black vs white; minorities vs white; gay vs straight; the rich (which according to Obama is 250K) vs the poor; women vs men; business vs workers, etc, etc.

Hopefully, race won't long stay as strong a predictor of your vote as it is now.
The best thing for all races is good jobs and limited government, and the democrats offer neither.

 

[Yo GabbaPentin]

Pandering was a poor choice of words. The point is that they need to strongly consider them in the future. Yes it sucks that they snuck in. Republicans need to get over that fact and focus on making immigration reform a fair process.

We shouldn't classify dems and repubs as "us" or "them.". There are very few individuals who have all of their beliefs line up with one party or another. Rather a party takes a stance, we identify ourselves as a member of that party and then we decide we agree without thinking about it much. It can't keep being an us vs them kind of thing. We are all Americans who hopefully have the best interest of the country as their top priority. Rush, Hannity and Chris Matthews have their wallets and ratings a the top of their list.

 

[Perrotfish]

No, it does not - because you still deal with the same unchanged policies of the untouchable insurance companies and contrary to the expected you will still be basically denied coverage for anything more tha prophylactical check ups and your premiums will skyrocket..

Actually, no. The part of the bill that keeps companies from denying you coverage for a prexisting condition is written to very specifically keep them from adjusting rates for anything other than a handful of specified conditions. They can charge you more because you're old, or fat, or a smoker, but not because you have a prexisting medical condition. As of 2014 a 30 year old non-smoking male with a BMI of 27 and polycystic kidney disease must be charged the exact same amount as a 30 year old non-smoking male with a BMI of 27 and no major medical conditions.

 

[Perrotfish]

i agree with what you said. romney should've kept his mouth shut. Yea unfortunately the DREAM act will have to pass and the Hispanic community will have to be pandered to in ways never seen before.
.

I gotta say, republican oposition to the DREAM act, or even their gruding 'unfortunate' support of it during (some) election years, is one of the most bizare and evil things that I have seen come out of that party. I can understand concerns about giving older adults amnesty for crimes they committed as younger adults. While I disagree with them, at least understand when conservatives argue that someone who snuck into this nation at the age of 18 should still be deported for that crime even decades later. When conservatives argue, however, that an 18 year old who has lived in the United States since the age of 2 should be deported to a country they don't remember, which they might not even share a language with, that's just f-ing wrong. That's not even about Christian charity, or forgiveness. It's about basic fairness and decency. If you grew up in the United States since you were a small child you are a US citizen in every way that matters, and should be able to become one legally.

 

[hoyden]

Actually, no. The part of the bill that keeps companies from denying you coverage for a prexisting condition is written to very specifically keep them from adjusting rates for anything other than a handful of specified conditions. They can charge you more because you're old, or fat, or a smoker, but not because you have a prexisting medical condition. As of 2014 a 30 year old non-smoking male with a BMI of 27 and polycystic kidney disease must be charged the exact same amount as a 30 year old non-smoking male with a BMI of 27 and no major medical conditions.

What is written is not what will happen in reality. Looks like you haven't dealt with insurance companies much. I have had during the last year. Yes, you can still kind of get what you need, but the amount of time and frustration is paramount. And I can guarantee you that a 27yo male with a preexisting condition is going either to pay more or is going to have an uphill battle every time he needs some improvement in his care to be approved by the insurance. The point is - the insurance companies are left in the untouchable status in a contrary to a patient and providers.

 

[Perrotfish]

What is written is not what will happen in reality. Looks like you haven't dealt with insurance companies much. I have had during the last year. Yes, you can still kind of get what you need, but the amount of time and frustration is paramount. And I can guarantee you that a 27yo male with a preexisting condition is going either to pay more or is going to have an uphill battle every time he needs some improvement in his care to be approved by the insurance. The point is - the insurance companies are left in the untouchable status in a contrary to a patient and providers.

Well, as I said, that part of the law goes into effect in 2014, so what you are dealing with now is pre-Obamacare rules. We will see if the new rules actually change anything when they happen. I think yes, especially considering that the Obama administration will still be in charge of the justice department when the policy is implemented.

 

[hoyden]

I gotta say, republican oposition to the DREAM act, or even their gruding 'unfortunate' support of it during (some) election years, is one of the most bizare and evil things that I have seen come out of that party. I can understand concerns about giving older adults amnesty for crimes they committed as younger adults. While I disagree with them, I an at least understand when conservatives argue that someone who snuck into this nation at the age of 18 should still be deported for that crime even decades later. When conservatives argue, however, that an 18 year old who has lived in the United States since the age of 2 should be deported to a country they don't remember, which they might not even share a language with, that's just f-ing wrong. That's not even about Christian charity, or forgiveness. It's about basic fairness and decency. If you grew up in the United States since you were a small child you are a US citizen in every way that matters, and should be able to become one legally.

The immigration issue is not an issue at all - looks like there is some benefit for pendulum positions in both parties. Every reasonable individual knows that you can't deport or self-deport anybody and, probably, shouldn't. You should not, on the other hand, reward breaking the law with inevitable citizenship. Clear the road to indefinite permanent resident status for those, who jumped the fence ( let them pay the fines, the taxes and the fees, let them stand in a separate line from a legal immigrants), consider ways to citizenship for those who were brought here as kids, and close the issue.
Oh, and legalize ALL drugs everywhere - let them be sold in pharmacies, impose a specific tax on drugs and enjoy revenue flows together with decreasing the crime at the border 🙂

It is not a rocket science

 

[hoyden]

Well, as I said, that part of the law goes into effect in 2014, so what you are dealing with now is pre-Obamacare rules. We will see if the new rules actually change anything when they happen. I think yes, especially considering that the Obama administration will still be in charge of the justice department when the policy is implemented.

you must be young and idealistic. Nothing will change for the better for the individual, a lot will change for the better for insurance companies.