2.0 GPA getting into Medical School?

[HumbleMD]

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You seem to be combining my responses with others on this thread that have nothing to do with the posts I was responding to. I responded to the dudes who said college grades reflected on how good a doctor one would become. I never said having a 4.0 was a bad thing or that someone with a 4.0 necessarilly had poor social skills (xucardsfan08 did, not me). Numerical stats certainly play a big role in admissions, as do other things - and you had better believe med schools look at these other things too. Med schools are not simply using grades as their sole acceptance criteria so in fact they are incorporating these other trends. In med school, you will meet people with pretty impressive ECs with high B averages, to go along with the handful of A average types. You can disagree with this approach, but you cannot really disagree that it exists. And it exists because med schools find indicators of success in a variety of places these days. They chose these people over folks with higher numerical stats.

And I certainly never said I was more intelligent than anyone here - chill.

I never disagreed that a high B great EC person exists. However, you and others would have us believe that they are the norm or average, which I do not beive they are. This difficulty in continually pointing out exceptions (which SDN is wont to do) is that people suddenly believe they are the rule.

More intelligent, no, but you seem to believe you have all the infallible answers. Tell us Law, when was the last time you thought you were wrong?
(Mine was yesterday. I thought this sweater I had was very dark navy but it was actually black).

 

[45408]

Even the most unrepresented amongst us will have a hard to getting into a medical school with a 2.0.

maybe if you were a Martian

 

[Law2Doc]

I never disagreed that a high B great EC person exists. However, you and others would have us believe that they are the norm or average, which I do not beive they are. This difficulty in continually pointing out exceptions (which SDn is wont to do) is that people suddenly believe they are the rule.

More intelligent, no, but ou seem to believe you have all the answers. Tell us Law, when was the last time you thought you were wrong?
(Mine was yesterday. I thought this sweater I had was very dark navy but it was actually black).

I am often wrong, and don't have all the answers, so I generally limit my posts to those threads where I feel I have something to add to the discourse. Everyone is free to disagree -- that is the nature of discussion boards.
As for "the norm or average", you needn't speculate -- you can get a schools average stats from MSAR. Nationally, per AMCAA, the average US allo matriculant stats are about a 3.5/30. Which, in my mind, means a good healthy chunk of all allo matriculants are high B students. Even at the top schools, the average numbers are notably below 4.0/40, and you have to assume that is based on admission choice, since there are enough top stat types to fill the top schools if they did a purely by the numbers approach.

 

[8744]

They're saying their minimum GPA is a 2.0, not that they will ever necessarily accept one. But hey, if a 2.0 is good enough to become POTUS, why not a doctor? When we screw up, we will kill at most one person at a time.

My undergrad GPA was 2.8 and betcha' me and the President are smarter than almost all of you. Like President Bush, I enjoyed chasing girls and partying more than school which says nothing about intelligence, just that one prefers chicks to Camus. Vice President Gore, by contrast, had a lower GPA than President Bush and was kicked out of graduate school (while President Bush got an MBA). I think Mr. Gore is a very intelligent man but I bet President Bush had a lot more fun in college while Mr. Gore no doubt spent his time living in angst over some social cause or another.

But a 2.0 for medical school? Fuggedaboudit. A 2.0 shows a basic lack of either intelligence or the desire to study. I had a 4.0 BPCM so I guess the two medical schools where I was accepted were willing to overlook a little dissipation during my wasted youth.

 

[spicedmanna]

Modest? For heaven's sakes Law. You really think that good grades in college chemistry, biology, and biochemistry classes has almost nothing to do with performance in medical school science courses (I'm not sayig clinicals, of course). Of course your GPA goes back to zero, but so did my high school GPA. Where are those kids who said their HS GPA was meaningless and no measure of how they'd do in college nowadays? Not at a top university, I'll tell you that much.

HumbleMD, it is indeed modest. Law2Doc is simply stating what is known. Koenig and Wiley (1996) show that undergraduate GPA data has median correlations ranging from 0.54 to 0.58 with medical school grades.

 

[twohearted]

Why would you take the second best job applicant? There are 10,000+ applicants with a 3.7 or better, so why WOULDN'T you take the higher grades?

Let's say the 3.7 app got steady 3.7 grades. Lets say another app got a 1.0 first year and 4.0s the next three, having a cummulative of 3.25. Who do you think would do better in med school? They would probably take the 3.7 but undoubtedly the 3.25 student is more academicaly able.

 

[turkleton]

Let's say the 3.7 app got steady 3.7 grades. Lets say another app got a 1.0 first year and 4.0s the next three, having a cummulative of 3.25. Who do you think would do better in med school? They would probably take the 3.7 but undoubtedly the 3.25 student is more academicaly able.

Of course they'd consider this, but you're describing the beyond rare exception- anyone can come up with contingencies and hypotheticals. You have to really not work to get a 1.0 and you've got to work your arse off to get a 4.0- this is sort of motivation mixed with apathy is a rare find. And you better have a good excuse why you got a 1.0- trouble at home is one thing, because it was more fun getting drunk is another. I've said it before on other threads. MCAT is necessary, but good GPA in a difficult major- not just bio/sciences- is the best predictor of medical school success.

 

[spicedmanna]

MCAT is necessary, but good GPA in a difficult major- not just bio/sciences- is the best predictor of medical school success.

Well, empirically, the aforementioned 1996 study suggests that MCAT + UGPA are better predictors than any one of them alone (median correlations of 0.70 to 0.76).

 

[turkleton]

Well, empirically, the aforementioned 1996 study suggests that MCAT + UGPA are better predictors than any one of them alone (median correlations of 0.70 to 0.76).

Good point, thanks for the elaboration. I imagine that would seem intuitive though. I guess my point resides on the two separately, particularly because of the GPA emphasis on this thread.

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

Let's say the 3.7 app got steady 3.7 grades. Lets say another app got a 1.0 first year and 4.0s the next three, having a cummulative of 3.25. Who do you think would do better in med school? They would probably take the 3.7 but undoubtedly the 3.25 student is more academicaly able.

I agree with your statement but just to play devil's advocate, what if the 3.7 consistantly took challenging courses while the 3.25 recieved that 1.0 after enrolling in challenging courses and took "mickey mouse courses" for those last few years? That grey area is looking mighty aggravating.

 

[mellsworth21]

Sings: " Why cant we be friends...Why cant we be friends...."😎

 

[mellsworth21]

Oh... and please dont diss the Caribbean its my plan B...or C. Havent decided yet. K😛

 

[deleted103644]

haha

 

[Instatewaiter]

Frankly, comparing Tipper to Laura, I'd say Al Gore has had plenty of "enjoyment" in his life relative to Bush.

I might be missing what you are saying, but I think you are saying Tipper is a better catch than Laura.I think you and I might differ on what we call 'enjoyment' Top two are tipper, bottom is laura

I am sure everyone remembers the most awkward kiss ever during the Dem convention. It looked like Tipper and Al hadn't touched each other in years. Then again, if I was married to tipper I would consider not having to touch her as 'enjoyment'

notice it almost looks like she is trying to push him off of her

 

[Tired Pigeon]

So basically it is saying you can get in this school with a 2.0 GPA ( Meharry Medical School)?
http://admissions.mmc.edu/page.asp?SID=22&Page=1448

Do you guys know of anyone ever getting into Medical School with a very low GPA in the 2's?

A GPA in the 2.0 - 2.5 range is going to raise some red flags most places. The fact is that to make it through the first two years of med school you're going to need the skills to succeed in a fairly demanding academic environment. Besides intellectual capability, you're going to need a strong work ethic, organizational skills, and the ability to prioritize school above other things going on in your life. A C-level GPA in undergrad suggests that you might have a problem in one or more of these areas, and thus might be a less-than-good bet for successfully completing the med school curriculum.

This is not to say that someone with a low undergrad GPA couldn't potentially make a great doc someday, just that adcoms are probably going to hesitate to place their bet on someone they think is likely to run into trouble early on.

 

[45408]

Let's say the 3.7 app got steady 3.7 grades. Lets say another app got a 1.0 first year and 4.0s the next three, having a cummulative of 3.25. Who do you think would do better in med school? They would probably take the 3.7 but undoubtedly the 3.25 student is more academicaly able.

And rightly so. The other guy has a more questionable work ethic.

 

[twohearted]

And rightly so. The other guy has a more questionable work ethic.

You really think so? People are capable of change and not everyone comes out of high school with the same level of maturity. There are a lot of smart kids out there who for various reasons really screw up early on in college. I don't think this should be held against them after demonstrating great change and personal growth/development. Three years of 4.0 grades takes a strong work ethic. However, I do agree with what some people have said about this being a rare case. I do know people like this though, and can say that med schools are really missing out. Unfortunatly, with such an overall gpa, many schools will not take a good enough look at the application/upward trend to see that they have a potential good doctor. That is a shame, but such is life.

 

[deleted103644]

you win instate

 

[gdawg102]

Modest? For heaven's sakes Law. You really think that good grades in college chemistry, biology, and biochemistry classes has almost nothing to do with performance in medical school science courses (I'm not sayig clinicals, of course). Of course your GPA goes back to zero, but so did my high school GPA. Where are those kids who said their HS GPA was meaningless and no measure of how they'd do in college nowadays? Not at a top university, I'll tell you that much.
.....
"Uh oh Jim, we've got another 4.0 and 42 MCAT here. Jeez, why don't they just read the admissions requirments. He's well above the maximum score cut-off. Into the trash it goes. Maybe he'll have better luck in the Caribbean."

Y'all can wait until that happens. I for one, will not be holding my breath.

My HS GPA was meaningless and no measure of how I did in college. And I went to an ivy league school. Graduated from high school with a 4.0 and ranked 3rd out of 250 students from an east coast college prep. school....I should have just enjoyed myself more back then....pshhh

 

[luv2sd]

This is kind of off topic but sort of related but I always like to say this to people so here goes:

I think that it's funny/interesting/ a shame/ or whatever that a person can get 86/87's on every exam in every class in college and not be "worthy" of becoming a doctor. Why is a B average so bad? There are many B students who can explain concepts/problems better than A students (who may have just memorized better for that particular exam). 80% winning/shooting whatever percentage in sports is outstanding, 85% yield in chemistry lab is pretty good, but 86% is not "qualified" enough for medical school. We live in such a funny society.

actually A = 94% at my school
nobody gets a solid A just by memorizing stuff
most A students actually STUDY VERY HARD AND THEY DESERVE TO BE DOCTORS

 

[luv2sd]

My HS GPA was meaningless and no measure of how I did in college. And I went to an ivy league school. Graduated from high school with a 4.0 and ranked 3rd out of 250 students from an east coast college prep. school....I should have just enjoyed myself more back then....pshhh

what are you talking about? you got into an ivy league school becuase you worked very hard in high school right?

 

[luv2sd]

Let's say the 3.7 app got steady 3.7 grades. Lets say another app got a 1.0 first year and 4.0s the next three, having a cummulative of 3.25. Who do you think would do better in med school? They would probably take the 3.7 but undoubtedly the 3.25 student is more academicaly able.

1.0 is pushing the limit... how about 3.0 instead of 1.0? so 3.0 to 4.0
now that's more realistic

 

[goodlookinrebel]

It's all part of a game, you just have to play it right.

I agree. Getting into med school is a lot like playing Risk. You build up a solid army, taking over territory while not becoming too greedy and spread out, and then all of the other guys who cant play worth two craps team up together to take you out because your superior skill poses a threat, then after all of the little guys get together and take your well formed army out, they have the whole game to themselves and it actually becomes more interesting as the playing feild is leveled. As they hash out the concept of world domination, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation, you storm off into the kitchen to get a beer. Seeing that it has all been taken by the other players you slam the fridge and begin to form your ultimate plan of revenge. Just then you notice an unopened box of powdered donuts sitting ever so innocently on the counter. As you manically scarff down the entire box, you think to yourself "Now who is the real winner in this situation?". Getting into med school is just like that.

 

[UMP]

I agree. Getting into med school is a lot like playing Risk. You build up a solid army, taking over territory while not becoming too greedy and spread out, and then all of the other guys who cant play worth two craps team up together to take you out because your superior skill poses a threat, then after all of the little guys get together and take your well formed army out, they have the whole game to themselves and it actually becomes more interesting as the playing feild is leveled. As they hash out the concept of world domination, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation, you storm off into the kitchen to get a beer. Seeing that it has all been taken by the other players you slam the fridge and begin to form your ultimate plan of revenge. Just then you notice an unopened box of powdered donuts sitting ever so innocently on the counter. As you manically scarff down the entire box, you think to yourself "Now who is the real winner in this situation?". Getting into med school is just like that.

risk on a Saturday night ? Fun stuff

Now where is my Axis & Allies game ?