20/20 show on prescription errors...airs FRIDAY

[klebsiella]

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http://abcnews.go.com/2020/

Check out the clip, it looks pretty interesting so I thought I would pass it along

 

[Jackanese]

Its so true, prescription errors are totally underreported. I remember at my pharmacy when the patient brings back a prescription and says we gave him/her someone else's med, we would just take it back and give them the correct med. No one is really surprised or anything...its routine.

 

[nightcrawleRx]

I agree that these errors go unreported but so do all the mistakes that pharmacists correct. Nobody ever takes the time to praise a pharmacist for doing what s/he does every day but make one mistake and you can bet your ass that you’ll catch an earful from most customers. It is unfair to think that pharmacists never make mistakes…they’re human. Most of these chain stores are understaffed, yet they keep building more pharmacies because after all, it is a business. However, they should be held partly accountable for some of these mistakes.

My heart goes out to that family and also the pharmacist who made the mistake. I hope that once I become a pharmacist I never have to deal with knowing that the consequences of my mistake ruined a little girl’s life.

 

[ForcedEntry]

For the record, I am perfect.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Is there an epidemic of pharmacy errors in the United States?

Oh God......a stupid, sensationalized news story to tear down the trust people have in our profession. I like how they have the log book out to be "signing away your rights to counseling" like you won't get counseling afterwards if you sign it or something. F'n ******s. Though they seem to want to go after the retail giants, which may wind up being amusing.

I'll watch....just so I can bitch about it later...

 

[BMBiology]

Would you rush your pharmacist the next time you are at a pharmacy if you know a mistake can kill you?

I think it's a good thing ABC is airing this story. It's unfortunate but many mistakes are not reported. That's a fact. Most pharmacies are understaffed and most patients don't understand the importance of our work. I hope the story explains why mistakes are made. The story also needs to be fair. It needs to explain that pharmacists catch many more mistakes than actually making a mistake.

I think most of us try our best to prevent mistakes but there're many ignorant people in this world. I have people who got angry at me because I want to verify their date of birth just to make sure I am giving the right medication to the right person.

 

[tussionex]

epidemic? ouch!

just another sensationalist story. how come we never hear about all the errors we DO fix, the errors that we prevent from occurring on a daily basis?

also, how can they be sure that this kid, who had a seizure disorder, wouldn't have had these devastating seizures ANYWAY had her Rx been error free.

that being said, pharmacy management should address the mcdonald's like atmosphere. it IS dangerous!

 

[Da Alchemist]

I agree that these errors go unreported but so do all the mistakes that pharmacists correct. Nobody ever takes the time to praise a pharmacist for doing what s/he does every day but make one mistake and you can bet your ass that you’ll catch an earful from most customers.

why would somone praise a pharmacist for being correct? they were trained to be correct. they werent trained to give wrong prescriptions though. if you kill someone you cant blame it on "im human i make mistakes" You can appreciate a pharmacist job, but you cant praise them for every good move they make because its not something new. it's their job.

 

[Jbuprepharm]

"As the country's biggest pharmacy chain, Walgreens recently reported record profits. "

Silly ABC, CVS is bigger. But Walgreens can have the pub, no qualms here


wow, reading the comments below the story you'd think everyone on there was robbed and beaten up by a pharmacist at some point.

 

[rxcrystal]

Oh God......a stupid, sensationalized news story to tear down the trust people have in our profession. I like how they have the log book out to be "signing away your rights to counseling" like you won't get counseling afterwards if you sign it or something. F'n ******s. Though they seem to want to go after the retail giants, which may wind up being amusing.

I'll watch....just so I can bitch about it later...

It looked like the log they showed was a Sudaphed log and they were making it into "signing away your rights" log. That's the media for you.

 

[dgroulx]

It's the usual "tabloid TV" crap that we dole out to our *****ic population. They wouldn't get the ratings if they told it any other way. I'd like to see them show how many errors that pharmacists prevent in one day, instead of the rare occasion when something tragic occurs. But, who would watch that except for us?

 

[nightcrawleRx]

why would somone praise a pharmacist for being correct? they were trained to be correct. they werent trained to give wrong prescriptions though. if you kill someone you cant blame it on "im human i make mistakes" You can appreciate a pharmacist job, but you cant praise them for every good move they make because its not something new. it's their job.

Maybe "praise" is the wrong word but I think most people got the point. Many people are ignorant to what a retail pharmacist does, they assume it's just putting pills in a bottle. I meant that not many people show appreciation for the pharmacist...say for example when they catch a potentially harmful mistake a doctor made...b/c they're human too. So what if it is their job...showing a little gratitude for doing a job well done wouldn't kill anyone. I'm not saying people should do this all the time but once in a while it would help balance out all the bitching some customers do because they seem to think the pharmacy opened their doors just for them and ended up having to wait a full 10 minutes for their Rx.

Mistakes are bound to happen, especially the way that most big chains go understaffed for hours upon hours. You can only hope that if you do make a mistake it would be something miniscule that a customer is willing to overlook. Maybe you're right...maybe being human is not a good enough excuse for making simple mistakes but it's the truth.

 

[Pharmguy07]

What irks me is that a lot of these people who would be outraged that errors happen are the same people who complain when their prescription takes longer than 5 minutes.

 

[Da Alchemist]

Maybe "praise" is the wrong word but I think most people got the point. Many people are ignorant to what a retail pharmacist does, they assume it's just putting pills in a bottle. I meant that not many people show appreciation for the pharmacist...say for example when they catch a potentially harmful mistake a doctor made...b/c they're human too. So what if it is their job...showing a little gratitude for doing a job well done wouldn't kill anyone. I'm not saying people should do this all the time but once in a while it would help balance out all the bitching some customers do because they seem to think the pharmacy opened their doors just for them and ended up having to wait a full 10 minutes for their Rx.

Mistakes are bound to happen, especially the way that most big chains go understaffed for hours upon hours. You can only hope that if you do make a mistake it would be something miniscule that a customer is willing to overlook. Maybe you're right...maybe being human is not a good enough excuse for making simple mistakes but it's the truth.

Customers sucks. Only in america you will find the most rude customers though. Because americans (most and not all) were raised like a baby. For example, If you fall on someone's walkway you were advised to sue the house owner.. i think that is just childish..or one lady got $1million because she ordered a hot coffee and got burnt when the coffee spilled on her claiming that there was no sign of "hot" on the cup lol. when i moved to u.s.a very long time ago and heard these stories. i thought it was ridiculous. customers sucks here in usa but you can't blame them it's the way they were raised. So it will be hard to get a "praise" from them.

 

[nightcrawleRx]

wow, reading the comments below the story you'd think everyone on there was robbed and beaten up by a pharmacist at some point.

Haha, so true...

Pharmguy07 I completely agree. I don't know if it is different in other parts of the country but here in the northeast everyone is in a huge rush. We're not serving french fries you idiots...that's why I love working with pharmacists who don't hesitate to put people like this in their place. I also hate the drive thrus...if there isn't an infant or a handicap marker hanging from your mirror then get your lazy ass out of the car, but I suppose that's a whole different topic of debate.

I agree with you too DaAlchemist...but that may be an over-generalization. Once in a great while someone will go out of their way to thank you. It could be for something so simple too. However, as sad as it may be, you're right, some customers think the entire pharmacy revolves around them and that type of attitude certainly doesn't help lower the number of mistakes made.

 

[npage148]

Out of 10 people, how many actually want to be counselled. Maybe 1. The rest don't care, are talking on their cell phones, rushing to get out, or are plain rude. Ive tried to counsel on important things like coumadin and you can tell peopel don't care and are not listening. Their eyes glaze over and are unphased by terms such as serious uncontrolled bleeding.

The second thing is the whole calling the prescirber for refills is BS. It takes the patient out of the loop and then they even care less about their own health. "just call my doctor and call me when its ready" Ive told people we dont call people becasue we'd make an extra 50 calls aday and we don't have time. Be a little more proactive about your life.. I have had office tell me they haven't seen a patient in 2 years and refuse to refill their SSRI and of course the patient is upset casue their doctor is a jerk. 2 years without an office visit would not happen if the patient was making the calls themself

 

[bes686]

I'm definately going to watch that tonight! I work at Eckerd in the pharmacy so everyone is wondering if it is gonna be us on TV! Although I highly doubt it, it's going to be an interesting show...

 

[BMBiology]

What irks me is that a lot of these people who would be outraged that errors happen are the same people who complain when their prescription takes longer than 5 minutes.

Some of you who are complaining about this show are the same people who complained about pharmacies being understaffed. You can't have it both ways. We all know these problems are real and are serious. The retails only care about customer's service, not patient's care.

 

[nguyenkd]

The retails only care about customer's service, not patient's care.

I totally agree. I was doing my community rotation at a popular retail chain last summer and I felt so rushed all the time even though it wasn't that busy. I think I'm a pretty darn good tech and intern but the pharmacist would constantly come up to me, while I'm counting nonetheless, and tap the counter to tell me to hurry up so they can meet the time mark. And when we weren't able to meet the time mark, we would delete the script and start all over! How ridiculous is that??

 

[uscfan209]

I think all the chains do this, but there is one chain that comes to mind about time limits/cutoffs mark that was needed to be reach in order to improve their efficiency. I worked 6 months for them and quit and worked for an independent instead.

 

[Pharmguy07]

Some of you who are complaining about this show are the same people who complained about pharmacies being understaffed. You can't have it both ways. We all know these problems are real and are serious. The retails only care about customer's service, not patient's care.

I'm not complaining about the show. I think a lot of pharmacies are understaffed.

 

[cangelilli]

The whole time I was watching I was wondering how many calls pharmacies are going to get tomorrow asking for their technicians credentials! Poor walgreens really got a beating on there!

 

[PharmEm]

Do erros happen, yes they do and of course there's no excuse for errors but at the same time, I do agree with the above poster, most pharmacies are just understaffed. My pharmacy manager works 12 hour shifts 4 out of 7 days and he admits that he wishes there was a rotating pharmacist system or at least 2 pharmacists working at the same time to minimize the errors and work load. The sad thing about the story was the fact that Walgreens didn't even apologize to the lady that was give the Coumadin.

P.S. I'm currently a tech at Wal-Mart (starting pharm school in Aug) and I'm wondering if we'll be getting a ton of transfers from walgreens and cvs.

 

[PharmEm]

I'm curious to know, who here thinks that pharm tech's should at least be 18 and have a high school or GED degree? I do think 16 year olds filling medictions is a little unsafe. I mean, you're SIXTEEN, in high school and the maturity level is not always quite there, they could easily be pressured to steal pills and stuff. As a pharmacist, I'd be hesitant to hire a 16 year old.

 

[MountainPharmD]

Just watched 20/20.....

Nothing ground breaking here. 5 billion prescriptions filled a year and someone is shocked there are mistakes...Most Pharmacists are not very exciting but I had no idea I was supposed to be a robot that never made an error.

Not to make light of any tragic situation but what do people expect? Oh yeah, they expect 1.) A Pharmacist to do complete drug utilization review on every medication they have ever took at any pharmacy including OTC meds to screen for potential problems. 2.) They expect their prescription to be accurately filled with the correct medication and any drug interactions or dosing problems confirmed and corrected with the doctors office. 3.) They expect you to thoroughly counsel them about their medication while they stand at the counter and talk on their cell phone. 4.) They expect you to do all of this in less then 10 minutes regardless of how many phone lines are on hold or how many other people are are waiting ahead of them. 5.) They expect to sue you for millions of dollars if there is a mistake at any point in the process because you should of taken the time to make sure everything was okay as long as it was done in less then 10 minutes...give me a break....

It was a short segmet but I think it brought up some good points that I am sure 99% of the people who watched it missed.

 

[spacecowgirl]

What they didn't mention is that volume requirements are so high in part because reimbursements are so ****ty. Maybe that's the root of the problem that needs to be addressed? If you can't make more than $1.00 off an Rx yeah, you'll be understaffed and/or using young, cheap and undertrained labor. And you're definitely not going to have any time to do all the things needed to prevent errors. I'm not saying corporate greed isn't a factor, but I think it's one of many.

People will sooner wait for their venti mocha latte no-whip at Starbucks than they will for their medication. Catering to that attitude and incentivizing fragmentation of care with free gift certificates for transfers only furthers the problem. Even when I know I have nothing else to do, I hesitate to tell someone it will be done in 5 minutes, lest I train them to believe it will always be that quick.

 

[Caverject]

how come we never hear about all the errors we DO fix, the errors that we prevent from occurring on a daily basis?

Because we are professionals and we will never implicate medical doctors to our patients for honest mistakes that happen.

 

[Future DOctor]

I am a medical student and just so happened to watch 20/20 tonight. Being a former pharmacy tech I understand the time constraints faced by pharmacists today and realize that unfortunately mistakes happen in all facets of healthcare. However, I can't understand why the Pharm industry couldn't have found a better representative to speak on their behalf on national television. She made every attempt to dodge all questions regarding facing commercial pharmacy today. I know that pharmacists work very hard and I respect your guys career paths very much as a intricate part to the healthcare profession, I just hope for you guys sake that your representatives portray commercial pharmacy in a better light in the near future than they did tonight.

P.S. for the reasons all of you have mentioned, I prefer to use an independently owned "neighborhood pharmacy"

 

[uscfan209]

I hope Walgreen's stock price plummet from this 20/20 segment.

"The Pharmacy America Trusts" Hah, yeah right! It should be "The Pharmacy that has the most prescription errors of America"

 

[dgroulx]

I hope Walgreen's stock price plummet from this 20/20 segment.

I hope so too, because my stock options will start on May 7th. If the stocks plummet, then I can buy at that price for the next 10 years.

 

[MountainPharmD]

However, I can't understand why the Pharm industry couldn't have found a better representative to speak on their behalf on national television. She made every attempt to dodge all questions regarding facing commercial pharmacy today. I know that pharmacists work very hard and I respect your guys career paths very much as a intricate part to the healthcare profession, I just hope for you guys sake that your representatives portray commercial pharmacy in a better light in the near future than they did tonight.

I think this is a huge problem. The reason pharmacy is getting hosed on issues like Medicare Part D(isaster) is becuase the pharmaceutical companies spend millions of dollars bribing congress. Where are all the pharmacist and chain pharmacy organizations and why have they not taken a stand?

 

[tussionex]

Because we are professionals and we will never implicate medical doctors to our patients for honest mistakes that happen.

i meant: how come the media never makes a big splashy display of it. i don't need to toot my horn for doing my job...all the same, it would be nice for the general public to see more than just errors.

 

[MountainPharmD]

i meant: how come the media never makes a big splashy display of it. i don't need to toot my horn for doing my job...all the same, it would be nice for the general public to see more than just errors.

Errors are sensational thats why. No one wants to hear how well we do our job, thats boring. The fact is people expect us to be perfect. They expect us to catch alll the drug interactions and dosing errors and they expect us to do it in less than 10 minutes or they will complain to the store manager and get a gift card.

 

[sdn1977]

I think this is a huge problem. The reason pharmacy is getting hosed on issues like Medicare Part D(isaster) is becuase the pharmaceutical companies spend millions of dollars bribing congress. Where are all the pharmacist and chain pharmacy organizations and why have they not taken a stand?

The APhA admitted last year about March or April it dropped the ball on this issue, but doesn't seem to be tremendously involved since.

The NACDS doesn't really care - they don't mind at all having the small independents go out of business - which Part D is causing in huge numbers in areas like MT & WY. Also...they don't really care about the pharmacy part of the business at all since the more people they get walking thru the front door means the more opportunity for a sale.

My question is, as I've said so many times....why do pharmacists allow themselves to be pushed? So what if your computer says you take too long (I CANNOT even imagine being in that situation!). What is the worst that could happen? Your DM comes and says you're too slow - ok.....next! Your store manager says you're too slow......tough s*#t!

Are they going to fire you? Aaaah - not probably - who will they replace you with? Will you not get your bonus??? - ok you can live with that if you can live with your own timing every day you work.

Pharmacists allow themselves to be trampled on then cry because organizations won't bail them out. Well - if your organization loses $$ on each Part D & you work for a chain - its not coming out of your pocket (as it would if you owned the rx - those guys have it tough!!!). So...slow down, don't let patients, techs, inanimate objects push you past your limit of abilities.

For the person who asked about the minimum age for a tech - I don't care if the tech is 16 or 46. They have to prove to me I can trust them before I do. I've had many I wouldn't trust & I eventually get them transferred & give my honest opinion to the DM.

 

[Caverject]

My question is, as I've said so many times....why do pharmacists allow themselves to be pushed? So what if your computer says you take too long (I CANNOT even imagine being in that situation!). What is the worst that could happen? Your DM comes and says you're too slow - ok.....next! Your store manager says you're too slow......tough s*#t!

Are they going to fire you? Aaaah - not probably - who will they replace you with? Will you not get your bonus??? - ok you can live with that if you can live with your own timing every day you work.

No, they will not be fired. Most pharmacists that get fired are usually for misfilling prescriptions. In fact if more pharmacists were smart, they would slow down their work production. It will piss off the DM's and whomever else is in charge and in the meantime, you will get more help out of it. The "good" pharmacists (fast ones) get punished with less help while the "incompetent" pharmacists get rewarded with extra help and a slower store.

 

[sdn1977]

No, they will not be fired. Most pharmacists that get fired are usually for misfilling prescriptions. In fact if more pharmacists were smart, they would slow down their work production. It will piss off the DM's and whomever else is in charge and in the meantime, you will get more help out of it. The "good" pharmacists (fast ones) get punished with less help while the "incompetent" pharmacists get rewarded with extra help and a slower store.

Agreed - they won't get fired. But, I don't agree that good = fast.

I'm a good pharmacist & I'm fast. But, one is not related to the other.

I'm good because I'm thorough & know where my limits are.

I'm fast when & under the circumstances in which I want to be.

If an rx takes me longer, for whatever the reason, it doesn't change how "good" I am. The work I initial reflects solely & completely on me so I make sure it is correct & I'm the one who gets to determine what it takes to get it right.

I'd put forth there are pharmacists who are too timid to step up and say, no - it will be 40 minutes to fill this rx because I'm going to lunch. Or - this rx will be ready by 9:30 tomorrow AM because I'm closing in 5 minutes. Or - tell the DM, no, I do not want this tech again - he/she is reckless, misfills too frequently, cannot be trusted to be unsupervised, etc......

Have I done this - yes! I've gone nose to nose with my DM & I get help when I need it. I also get rid of help which is incompetent.

When I was in a position in which staffing was going to affect how my work might impact pt care adversely, I addressed it & when it fell on deaf ears - I quit. Simple - its just not worth it to me to potentially kill or maim someone just because a bean counter wants it so.

 

[gaba101]

Agreed - they won't get fired. But, I don't agree that good = fast.

I'm a good pharmacist & I'm fast. But, one is not related to the other.

I'm good because I'm thorough & know where my limits are.

I'm fast when & under the circumstances in which I want to be.

If an rx takes me longer, for whatever the reason, it doesn't change how "good" I am. The work I initial reflects solely & completely on me so I make sure it is correct & I'm the one who gets to determine what it takes to get it right.

I'd put forth there are pharmacists who are too timid to step up and say, no - it will be 40 minutes to fill this rx because I'm going to lunch. Or - this rx will be ready by 9:30 tomorrow AM because I'm closing in 5 minutes. Or - tell the DM, no, I do not want this tech again - he/she is reckless, misfills too frequently, cannot be trusted to be unsupervised, etc......

Have I done this - yes! I've gone nose to nose with my DM & I get help when I need it. I also get rid of help which is incompetent.

When I was in a position in which staffing was going to affect how my work might impact pt care adversely, I addressed it & when it fell on deaf ears - I quit. Simple - its just not worth it to me to potentially kill or maim someone just because a bean counter wants it so.

I've noticed that a lot of problems come from insensitive non-PharmD-holding upper management. Perhaps a solution to the problem would be to make it a law that DMs must hold a PharmD? People who hold PharmDs obviously have gone thru pharamcy school, rotations, faced the wrath of DMs and preceptors, and worked in stressful environments at pharmacies to move their way up to DM position. On the other hand, idiots w/ a BS in XYZ just jump in , have NEVER EXPERIENCED THE PRESSURES pharmacists face from their non-PharmD DMs (only see pharmacy thru the eyes of a patient) and think they are hot $h*t and can bull you, the PharmD around, and breathe down your neck to give you this "faster faster" business w/ time limits so they (the DMs) can get their big bonus and whatnot. I'm NOT saying PharmD DMs do not want bonuses; human nature is driven by money. But, I can definitely see a PharmD DM being a lot more sensitive and understanding of the pressures pharmacists face and I think are more likely to create a safer (less "time limit!!!!" "hurry hurry!") working envionrment.

non-PHarmD DMs are so useless. My friend told me that once his store had a scheduling mix-up. The DM rushes over to the store (as if he was some hotshot...he said the DM looked like he used to be a pompous jock in high school) as if he was going to save the day. Big guy didn't even have a PharmD and thus could not entire the pharmacy w/o a RPh present! hahahahahahahahahahahaha and all the idiot could do was chat w/ all the other high-school employees in the store. Meanwhile, patients were pissed off and yelling at him for this pharmacy wasting their time (I do not blame them). This lasted about 5 hours. Um, yah, you're so useful, Mr. DM! Of course, if this DM had a PharmD, he could come in, rescue everyone, and be considered a hero by all his patients.

All in favor of vetoing non-PharmD DMs, say "ay" =)

 

[sdn1977]

I've noticed that a lot of problems come from insensitive non-PharmD-holding upper management. Perhaps a solution to the problem would be to make it a law that DMs must hold a PharmD? People who hold PharmDs obviously have gone thru pharamcy school, rotations, faced the wrath of DMs and preceptors, and worked in stressful environments at pharmacies to move their way up to DM position. On the other hand, idiots w/ a BS in XYZ just jump in and think they are hot $h*t and can bull you, the PharmD around, and breathe down your neck to give you this "faster faster" business w/ time limits so they (the DMs) can get their big bonus and whatnot. I'm NOT saying PharmD DMs do not want bonuses; human nature is driven by money. But, I can definitely see a PharmD DM being a lot more sensitive and understanding of the pressures pharmacists face and I think are more likely to create a safer (less "time limit!!!!" "hurry hurry!") working envionrment.

Just to clarify....are you referring to non-pharmacist DM's?

Because pharmacists can be BS or PharmD's - remember?

No difference in my book.

But - I don't care if its a pharmacist or non-pharmacist who is a DM, I will not allow anyone to push me faster than the limit I set for myself.

 

[Da Alchemist]

No, they will not be fired. Most pharmacists that get fired are usually for misfilling prescriptions.

Im just curious. why can't pharmacist get fired if their "boss" complains about them being slow on daily routine. Is it that hard to replace a spot? will the boss ignore the pharmacist's slowness everyday they work? forever? If a pharmacist works with a slow tech. would the pharmacist work with this tech every day? forever? what is the difference?

 

[gaba101]

SDN1977, Yes, i am referring to non-pharmacist DM. I mentioned "pharmD" pharmacist-DM only because the BS pharmacy degree has faded (is fading?) out and yes, I am aware that there are still BS pharmacy pharmacists who are alive I was just being lazy

But - I don't care if its a pharmacist or non-pharmacist who is a DM, I will not allow anyone to push me faster than the limit I set for myself.

That was my whole point--because pharmacist-DMs have gone thru the exact training as us non-DM pharmacists, they have been in our shoes before (behind the counter, angry customers, stupid insurance) whereas the non-pharmacist DMs haven't (they can only stock OTCs as a way of helping out, *chuckles*) and I sincerely feel these pharmacist-DMs are LESS (i did not say "not") likely push us to the brink of insanity. These pharmacist DMs, like us pharmacists, have taken the oath not to jeopardize patients' health and etc etc etc whereas I bet most non-pharmacist DMs didn't even know we had to take the oath! so while these pharmacist DMs would like to have the big bonuses, they know pushing us even harder would jeoparidze patient lives and ultimately force us to quit. Trust me, I've worked with some stores that have pharmacist DMs and stores that do not have pharmacist DMs--I saw and felt the differences I am explaining right now.

EDIT--PharmD degrees should be mandated in not just DMs but any upper management. Why is it that pharmacy managers have to have pharmacy degrees but positions higher than that (DM, retail chain managers--like in 20/20--don't need pharmacy degrees??????????) it's just stupid to have to answer to a higher calling when you, the pharmacist, have a HIGHER degree. SO BULL$H*T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Caverject]

Agreed - they won't get fired. But, I don't agree that good = fast.

I'm a good pharmacist & I'm fast. But, one is not related to the other.

I don't think you were following my logic. You are a good pharmacist in a corporate person's eyes if you are fast. You are a bad pharmacist in a corporate persons eyes if you are slow. In the real world sense, yes one is not related to the other.

 

[Caverject]

I've noticed that a lot of problems come from insensitive non-PharmD-holding upper management. Perhaps a solution to the problem would be to make it a law that DMs must hold a PharmD? People who hold PharmDs obviously have gone thru pharamcy school, rotations, faced the wrath of DMs and preceptors, and worked in stressful environments at pharmacies to move their way up to DM position. On the other hand, idiots w/ a BS in XYZ just jump in , have NEVER EXPERIENCED THE PRESSURES pharmacists face from their non-PharmD DMs (only see pharmacy thru the eyes of a patient) and think they are hot $h*t and can bull you, the PharmD around, and breathe down your neck to give you this "faster faster" business w/ time limits so they (the DMs) can get their big bonus and whatnot. I'm NOT saying PharmD DMs do not want bonuses; human nature is driven by money. But, I can definitely see a PharmD DM being a lot more sensitive and understanding of the pressures pharmacists face and I think are more likely to create a safer (less "time limit!!!!" "hurry hurry!") working envionrment.

non-PHarmD DMs are so useless. My friend told me that once his store had a scheduling mix-up. The DM rushes over to the store (as if he was some hotshot...he said the DM looked like he used to be a pompous jock in high school) as if he was going to save the day. Big guy didn't even have a PharmD and thus could not entire the pharmacy w/o a RPh present! hahahahahahahahahahahaha and all the idiot could do was chat w/ all the other high-school employees in the store. Meanwhile, patients were pissed off and yelling at him for this pharmacy wasting their time (I do not blame them). This lasted about 5 hours. Um, yah, you're so useful, Mr. DM! Of course, if this DM had a PharmD, he could come in, rescue everyone, and be considered a hero by all his patients.

All in favor of vetoing non-PharmD DMs, say "ay" =)

What in the world are you talking about? All pharmacists with a BS degree have gone thru pharmacy school and have gone thru all the rigors of a pharmD student. There are many good DM's that hold a BS degree and many good pharmacists that only have a BS degree. Also, the worlds problems will not be solved by regulations on telling companies how to operate their business. Change has to come from within.

 

[fab4fan]

Out of 10 people, how many actually want to be counselled. Maybe 1. The rest don't care, are talking on their cell phones, rushing to get out, or are plain rude. Ive tried to counsel on important things like coumadin and you can tell peopel don't care and are not listening. Their eyes glaze over and are unphased by terms such as serious uncontrolled bleeding.

My pharmacy had to resort to posting a sign at the drive through and at the main desk telling people they needed to terminate their cell phone calls while being helped. They said it was due to "HIPAA" but I suspect it had more to do with sheer frustration with obnoxious people who wouldn't pay attention to the staff. 🙄

 

[tussionex]

Errors are sensational thats why. No one wants to hear how well we do our job, thats boring. The fact is people expect us to be perfect. They expect us to catch alll the drug interactions and dosing errors and they expect us to do it in less than 10 minutes or they will complain to the store manager and get a gift card.

that's why i work in a hospital

 

[Caverject]

Im just curious. why can't pharmacist get fired if their "boss" complains about them being slow on daily routine. Is it that hard to replace a spot? will the boss ignore the pharmacist's slowness everyday they work? forever? If a pharmacist works with a slow tech. would the pharmacist work with this tech every day? forever? what is the difference?

Because corporate people are smart in the fact a pharmacist is hard to replace they wont fire them. They will hold on to anybody that doesn't make a whole lot of errors and place them in appropriate stores. If a pharmacist has a slow tech and the pharmacist has the balls to say something about it, typically after enough whining the person will be replaced.

 

[sdn1977]

I don't think you were following my logic. You are a good pharmacist in a corporate person's eyes if you are fast. You are a bad pharmacist in a corporate persons eyes if you are slow. In the real world sense, yes one is not related to the other.

Sorry - you're right - I didn't follow your argument...but now I see your point & agree!

Its a strong person who needs to stand up to the corporation when it comes down to unprofessional & dangerous work situations.

 

[sdn1977]

SDN1977, Yes, i am referring to non-pharmacist DM. I mentioned "pharmD" pharmacist-DM only because the BS pharmacy degree has faded (is fading?) out and yes, I am aware that there are still BS pharmacy pharmacists who are alive I was just being lazy



That was my whole point--because pharmacist-DMs have gone thru the exact training as us non-DM pharmacists, they have been in our shoes before (behind the counter, angry customers, stupid insurance) whereas the non-pharmacist DMs haven't (they can only stock OTCs as a way of helping out, *chuckles*) and I sincerely feel these pharmacist-DMs are LESS (i did not say "not") likely push us to the brink of insanity. These pharmacist DMs, like us pharmacists, have taken the oath not to jeopardize patients' health and etc etc etc whereas I bet most non-pharmacist DMs didn't even know we had to take the oath! so while these pharmacist DMs would like to have the big bonuses, they know pushing us even harder would jeoparidze patient lives and ultimately force us to quit. Trust me, I've worked with some stores that have pharmacist DMs and stores that do not have pharmacist DMs--I saw and felt the differences I am explaining right now.

Sorry gaba - just clarifying. But...the BS pharmacist won't fade fast - the last class graduated in 1999. So...a little arithmetic, that 25yo in 1999, working for 30 years....hmmmm may retire in 2029. We'll have them for awhile & they need to have particular respect paid since they really are the end of a particular time - at least for now (altho our educations were the same).

I've never worked for a non-pharmacist DM, so I don't know your circumstance.

But.....I've worked for a** who are PharmDs - both as dms & dops - if they're bad......imo, the degree doesn't make them any better. They are just poor managers of people. Not everyone is suited to that job (just like instructors) & if you've got a bad one....its awful!! That - I've encountered!

 

[piyi]

My question is, as I've said so many times....why do pharmacists allow themselves to be pushed? So what if your computer says you take too long (I CANNOT even imagine being in that situation!). What is the worst that could happen? Your DM comes and says you're too slow - ok.....next! Your store manager says you're too slow......tough s*#t!

Are they going to fire you? Aaaah - not probably - who will they replace you with? Will you not get your bonus??? - ok you can live with that if you can live with your own timing every day you work.

Pharmacists allow themselves to be trampled on then cry because organizations won't bail them out. Well - if your organization loses $$ on each Part D & you work for a chain - its not coming out of your pocket (as it would if you owned the rx - those guys have it tough!!!). So...slow down, don't let patients, techs, inanimate objects push you past your limit of abilities.

Thank you for bringing this up-- I also do not understand this. The pharmacists that I work with also have this compulsion to keep up their scores. I've asked the one that works overnight that I'm closest with why does she care because it's not like they're going to fire her because her score is low. She finally thought it over and was like, you're right, what's the point? I hope that keeps her stress level a little lower at night, but I don't know for sure because I leave late in the evening. I know if I end up working for that chain, my score is going to be the last thing I worry about as a pharmacist. I'm going to take my time and make sure errors are as minimal as is possible.

 

[sdn1977]

Im just curious. why can't pharmacist get fired if their "boss" complains about them being slow on daily routine. Is it that hard to replace a spot? will the boss ignore the pharmacist's slowness everyday they work? forever? If a pharmacist works with a slow tech. would the pharmacist work with this tech every day? forever? what is the difference?

I'm not sure I clearly understand your questions....

But, your first - no, pharmacists don't get fired for being slow. They will get fired for not finishing their work or as Caverject mentioned - making mistakes or doing somthing else, instead of work (SLEEPING😉 , calling family, friends,, other business, etc...)

But, slow - no. We're not talking here about being slow actually. We're talking about being able to work at the pace you're comfortable with so you don't make mistakes.

For me, that's pretty fast. For my tech in retail, she counts really, really fast. For my oncology IV tech - he's good,, but takes plenty of time & I'd never, ever rush him. I will always be the buffer between nurses/patients & my techs or other staff I'm working with. If I'm working alone & a pt gives me grief.....I'll offer to let them take the rx to another pharmacy, but to please not interrupt me again or it just won't get done. If I'm working alone in the hospital & I don't want to be rushed....I just don't answer the phone - easy!😀 (stats & codes come on pages so I know those without the telephone).

 

[piyi]

I also get rid of help which is incompetent.

When I was in a position in which staffing was going to affect how my work might impact pt care adversely, I addressed it & when it fell on deaf ears - I quit. Simple - its just not worth it to me to potentially kill or maim someone just because a bean counter wants it so.

I wish my pharmacy manger would do the same thing-- there are a few techs that work at my store that just do not do their job. They cause us so many problems. I would feel quite uncomfortable working at this store as a pharmacists since it would be my responsibility if anything were to go terribly wrong even if it's directly the technician's fault. There are so many times when this one tech in particular does not call the pharmacist over to counsel on new prescriptions! I doubt they are checking the medication themselves to make sure it looks correct; they probably do not even check refills even though they should (even if it's just to make sure the patient on the label matches the patient that's going to get the medication). I often wonder why some of the pharmacists stay working at that store; they probably think it would be much of the same at any other store. But I've worked at two great stores where the technicians were all quite competant workers; this is the first store I've worked at where tech help is truly lacking. I've probably just gotten lucky the first two times.