## 2008-2009 Application Season ## Post AACOMAS questions HERE!!!

[Chocolate Bear]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I've been out of PA school for 6 years (have a MS from it)..took orgo a few years ago. Otherwise the rest of the classes are over 15 years old (I know). I was hoping that being a PA graduate would offest some of this. Any thoughts????

I will be taking 2nd semester physics in the fall. I never took it in the past.

Hmmm...I really don't know. Sorry. I can see both sides nearly equally. You have already been through the sciences you'll see in med school (more or less), but perhaps schools wouldn't consider you well prepared to start them anew.

Anyone else know? Have you discussed this with any specific schools?

 

[runningdoc]

Submitted today🙂

Does anyone know how long it takes before secondaries are sent out?

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Submitted today🙂

Does anyone know how long it takes before secondaries are sent out?

Nice!

Word on this thread is that some/many don't send them until Julyish or later. Of course you'll have to be verified first, and the countup is on to determine how long that takes, right now. I'm up to 6 days...

 

[doctor804]

I plan to apply this summer (just starting working on amcas). I plan to start shadowing a DO doctor in the next two weeks. I have shadowed an MD and done countless hours volunteering at a local hospital. Is that enough volunteer work and am I shadowing a DO too late for my application?

Thanks!

 

[prionsRbad]

Runningdoc:

last year, I submitted my application on June 22nd, was verified on July 2nd and processed and mailed on July 5th.

I received my first secondary on July 16th and they really started to pour in after that.

My MCAT score came in on 9/23 and the first school I was complete with was DMU (file complete on 9/27 and I got the interview invite on 10/10).

Good Luck!!! It's such an exciting time! (and a tad stressful, I know). 😉

 

[Chocolate Bear]

I plan to apply this summer (just starting working on amcas). I plan to start shadowing a DO doctor in the next two weeks. I have shadowed an MD and done countless hours volunteering at a local hospital. Is that enough volunteer work and am I shadowing a DO too late for my application?

Thanks!

I don't know how much "enough" volunteer work is. Since you're applying right now, this is kind of a non-issue. It's not like you can go back in time and do more! I'd recommend continuing to volunteer, if possible. That way you can put "Until Present" on your app and it will look more sincere/intrinsically driven (I'm not sure whether it is or isn't). You would also be able to include it in a follow-up letter to schools.

I don't think it's too late to shadow a DO. Just make sure you get that on your AACOMAS app for sure! This would also be beneficial for AMCAS, though you may or may not point out their DO status.

 

[doctor804]

Thanks a lot Chocolate Bear... I actually have some more questions if you don't mind...

So I graduated undergrad in 07 and finished with a miserable 2.76 gpa. I had completed all of the premed requirements although I got a C in chem1 and orgo1. I did relatively well in my other premed classes but it still doesn't look "pretty"
Since then I have taken over 27 credits of grad level courses and earned a 3.88 gpa (I got only one B). I took the post bac classes at vcu without officially being in the program. I take the mcats in july and hope to get a 30+. Do I have a chance of getting into a DO school? Will they mind that I am not actually getting a post bac certificate?

Thanks a bunch! 🙂

 

[runningdoc]

Thanks for the advice! Does it say somewhere specifically that I am verified? I paid for each school (drained my accounts) and sent in my transcripts. I get my MCAT score tomorrow. I figured it best to apply early (from friend's experiences) without my MCAT, and verify later.

Tomorrow will be a *fabulous* day. Haha

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Thanks a lot Chocolate Bear... I actually have some more questions if you don't mind...

So I graduated undergrad in 07 and finished with a miserable 2.76 gpa. I had completed all of the premed requirements although I got a C in chem1 and orgo1. I did relatively well in my other premed classes but it still doesn't look "pretty"
Since then I have taken over 27 credits of grad level courses and earned a 3.88 gpa (I got only one B). I took the post bac classes at vcu without officially being in the program. I take the mcats in july and hope to get a 30+. Do I have a chance of getting into a DO school? Will they mind that I am not actually getting a post bac certificate?

Thanks a bunch! 🙂

Glad to help (or at least try)!

I'm fairly sure you have a chance. Nice job in the post bac work--that should raise your GPA to above the cutoff at most schools. Have you verified this by inputting your coursework into AACOMAS and checking the calculated GPAs?

I don't know for sure, but my best guess would be that the lack of the actual certificate won't hurt you.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Thanks for the advice! Does it say somewhere specifically that I am verified? I paid for each school (drained my accounts) and sent in my transcripts. I get my MCAT score tomorrow. I figured it best to apply early (from friend's experiences) without my MCAT, and verify later.

Tomorrow will be a *fabulous* day. Haha

I'm assuming that in the top right, where it says "Application Status:," they will update your status to Verified or something. Can someone verify (😉)?

 

[jackson08]

I had a meeting with an advisor at MSUCOM, and she told me that when you start post-bacc work your GPA starts over. Meaning that your 3.88 will be completely separate from your 2.76, and the schools will see that. Make sure you mention somewhere in your application that you achieved such an outstanding GPA post-bacc, and even if you don't get a 30+ on your MCAT I'd say you definitely have a chance, and I don't think they'll mind at all that you haven't gotten a post-bacc certificate. Just make sure you fill out the AACOMAS primary ASAP!

 

[runningdoc]

I'm assuming that in the top right, where it says "Application Status:," they will update your status to Verified or something. Can someone verify (😉)?

That sounds right....I just checked and it says:
Application Status: Submitted to AACOMAS

Hmm...we shall see

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

Pre med courses are: (intro courses don't count as they are just that, intro courses)

Gen Bio 1 and 2 with lab (for majors)
Gen Chem 1 and 2 with lab
Orgo 1 and 2 (with chem 1 and 2 prereqs) with lab
Physics 1 and 2 (trig based for most programs, and I think all DO programs) with lab

That's whats on the MCAT, and these are USUALLY the courses pre meds need to take. Exceptions? Probably. But these WILL cover all schools- except a few require Biochem or Stats or other such silly things in addition.

We all understand that General Bio will cover the pre-med preqs. The question Dr. Josh is asking is whether or not a non-General Bio will cover it, since nearly all schools websites don't state General Bio.

 

[DAKAZA]

This is a good thread. I'm in the same boat. I have Anatomy & Physiology I and II (each with lab), human micorobiology (with lab) and I'm currently taking genetics. I emailed Wayne State School of Medicine and they said it shouldn't be a problem. I'm wondering about the other schools I'm going to apply to but I'm going to apply to many and I'm not sure exactly which ones at this point. I'd hate to have to go back and take Bio I & II but I kind of feel like I should register for them starting next fall...not sure 😕

 

[prionsRbad]

I had a meeting with an advisor at MSUCOM, and she told me that when you start post-bacc work your GPA starts over. Meaning that your 3.88 will be completely separate from your 2.76, and the schools will see that. Make sure you mention somewhere in your application that you achieved such an outstanding GPA post-bacc, and even if you don't get a 30+ on your MCAT I'd say you definitely have a chance, and I don't think they'll mind at all that you haven't gotten a post-bacc certificate. Just make sure you fill out the AACOMAS primary ASAP!

Your post bac GPA is shown separately, but doing a post-bac does NOT start your GPA over. You will still have an overall GPA, which includes your undergrad work and your post-bac work.

 

[guyline]

I just received my MCAT score today - it's a 24P - needless to say, I'm very disappointed 🙁. I am planning to retake it in either June or July and by then I hope to score higher. However, there is this lingering fear I have that I may be a little late in the process. So my question is: can I apply this cycle with what I have to see where it takes me, and re-apply to the same schools with the hopefully improved MCAT scores, if I get rejected, the same year? For example, if I apply to TUCOM this June, get rejected, retake MCAT in July, and re-apply to the same TUCOM that same cycle, is this possible? Thanks in advance!

I already did some searching but If there is already a thread that answered this question, please don't kill me.

 

[RySerr21]

I just received my MCAT score today - it's a 24P - needless to say, I'm very disappointed 🙁. I am planning to retake it in either June or July and by then I hope to score higher. However, there is this lingering fear I have that I may be a little late in the process. So my question is: can I apply this cycle with what I have to see where it takes me, and re-apply to the same schools with the hopefully improved MCAT scores, if I get rejected, the same year? For example, if I apply to TUCOM this June, get rejected, retake MCAT in July, and re-apply to the same TUCOM that same cycle, is this possible? Thanks in advance!

I already did some searching but If there is already a thread that answered this question, please don't kill me.

hmm ive never heard of that before. why wouldnt you just submit your application, let them know you are retaking MCAT so that they put it on hold, and then get your score back in august???

whats the rest of your app look like? A 24 is right around the average for a lot of schools so if you are pretty solid every where else you might not be in as bad of shape as you think you are.

 

[REM12]

In my opinion and experience, requiring general Bio 1 and 2 means exactly that. No substitutions. If a particular school makes an exception, well, there you are. I wouldn't gamble on that if I were you, as admissions is tricky enough and has a lot to do with luck, so you will probably apply broadly. So, no, IMO, I would not count on replacements being ok for most schools. If you've been through college, which all of you have, you know that each person you talk to will have a different answer to the same questions 🙄
"It should be okay" from one person doesn't necessarily mean that it IS ok. I would not count on that being the final answer as the adcom may disagree with whomever you talked to. Good luck to ya!

 

[Kateb4]

I just received my MCAT score today - it's a 24P - needless to say, I'm very disappointed 🙁. I am planning to retake it in either June or July and by then I hope to score higher. However, there is this lingering fear I have that I may be a little late in the process. So my question is: can I apply this cycle with what I have to see where it takes me, and re-apply to the same schools with the hopefully improved MCAT scores, if I get rejected, the same year? For example, if I apply to TUCOM this June, get rejected, retake MCAT in July, and re-apply to the same TUCOM that same cycle, is this possible? Thanks in advance!

I already did some searching but If there is already a thread that answered this question, please don't kill me.

I'm pretty sure that you get one application per cycle. Otherwise, we'd all keep reapplying. What you can do is apply with your current scores, then just update your apps with the new MCAT. If you put in your application that you are planning to take it again, alot of schools will hold their decisions until you submit the second score (or some may give you an interview with the first score). Really, if you take it in July, you'll have your scores in Aug and that isn't really late, especially if you already have your primary otherwise done.

 

[Bacchus]

If you indicate a retake, can you still be offered interviews or are you put on hold until the 2nd set of scores comes in? I'm retaking because I'd like to stay instate and my current score is "not acceptable" for instate allo schools however should get me some looks at osteo schools.

 

[guyline]

Let's see, my GPA is 3.56 overall with 3.42 science. I shadowed a primary care physician for 8 months. I've been a medical interpreter for 3 years (this is a part of my application that I'm particularly proud of) and was exposed to many fields of medicine - cardiology, ob/gyn, pediatric, general surgery, etc. I am given the opportunity to interact with patients and doctors directly and see first hand how physicians diagnosed and treat patients with this job. I have assisted patients who are just coming for their regular check-ups to patients who are dying of cancer, and even those who came in to ask for a dose of Viagra. So in terms of clinical experience, I believe I am strong in this regard and my genetic professor, who is also my advisor, told me to make sure to flesh this part of myself out on the personal statement. I have also volunteered plenty in community service (helped organize an fundraising event that raised over $20,000 for ophanages, and among others). I had a small research experience where I assisted a graduate student on his project (don't know if this counts).

The reason I ask is what if I am offered an interview and get matriculated before having to retake the MCAT. And like I said, I am a little fearful.

 

[guyline]

I'm pretty sure that you get one application per cycle. Otherwise, we'd all keep reapplying. What you can do is apply with your current scores, then just update your apps with the new MCAT. If you put in your application that you are planning to take it again, alot of schools will hold their decisions until you submit the second score (or some may give you an interview with the first score). Really, if you take it in July, you'll have your scores in Aug and that isn't really late, especially if you already have your primary otherwise done.

Thanks Kateb4 and you, too, Ryser. I think I'm gonna do just that!

 

[RySerr21]

If you indicate a retake, can you still be offered interviews or are you put on hold until the 2nd set of scores comes in? I'm retaking because I'd like to stay instate and my current score is "not acceptable" for instate allo schools however should get me some looks at osteo schools.

if you are only retaking to better your chances at your allo school, then there is no need to even notify the DO programs that you are retaking. just submimt your app as is.

i believe if you indicate a retake you are put in hold until scores come in, unless like Kate mentioned, they choose to give you an interview with your first score.

 

[Dr. Josh]

I just checked the MSAR and all schools call it bio and want 8 credits of bio with labs. Not one called it general bio. So I'd think we're ok with that. Right?

 

[scpod]

Most schools subscribe to the 8 hours of Biology with a lab thing because they don't want you taking the silly "non-major" Biology courses that Liberal Arts majors take to satisfy their general education requirements. At most universities, you need to take two semesters of general biology (typically an intro to life sciences one semester and organismal biology the second) as a prerequisite to any sophomore or higher level course. That's why you often see the requirement as "intro" Biology. There is rarely a problem with taking upper level courses. Some schools won't count AP courses fom high school or courses you clepped out of, so you HAVE to take some upper level courses.

Yet, no two schools are the same. The bottom line is that if you have a question about a course, you're better off checking with the schools you might want to apply to before you take it-- or at least before you apply and find out they don't take it.

 

[RySerr21]

This is a good thread. I'm in the same boat. I have Anatomy & Physiology I and II (each with lab), human micorobiology (with lab) and I'm currently taking genetics. I emailed Wayne State School of Medicine and they said it shouldn't be a problem. I'm wondering about the other schools I'm going to apply to but I'm going to apply to many and I'm not sure exactly which ones at this point. I'd hate to have to go back and take Bio I & II but I kind of feel like I should register for them starting next fall...not sure 😕

i had this same problem. i have taken many "bio" courses but only one counts as "general bio". I took into to cell/molec and thats the one that counts. i emailed and called many many schools, both MD and DO. i heard someting different from every single one.

some said "your anatomy course and your physiology course will count towards your 1 year bio requirement"

some said "no your anatomy course and your physiology course do not count. you need to take zoology or some other general biology course"


in the end, i gave up because I didn't want to worry about it so I signed up for zoology in the fall.

 

[Dr. Josh]

i had this same problem. i have taken many "bio" courses but only one counts as "general bio". I took into to cell/molec and thats the one that counts. i emailed and called many many schools, both MD and DO. i heard someting different from every single one.

some said "your anatomy course and your physiology course will count towards your 1 year bio requirement"

some said "no your anatomy course and your physiology course do not count. you need to take zoology or some other general biology course"


in the end, i gave up because I didn't want to worry about it so I signed up for zoology in the fall.

then why doesn't MSAR clarify that? some even say zoology is not required.

 

[REM12]

Ok. If it says 8 hours bio with lab, there's your answer. I always thought it was specifically the gen bio series for majors, as that is the material on the MCAT and what I was told by my college. It would seem that Dr. Josh is probably ok with those courses.

 

[RySerr21]

then why doesn't MSAR clarify that? some even say zoology is not required.

i dont konw why they dont clarify.

the ones that say "zoology is not required" are probably the same schools that told me "anatomy and physiology will be fine." the point is you need to call and ask each school and speak with somoone that can give you a direct answer.

one of the schools I called have that they require 1 year of biolog (not general), but when I calleed and asked the lady said it needed to be a general level bio course, not upper level.

i had enough, so im taking zoology so i dont have to deal with it. its just dumb.

 

[Dr. Josh]

Ok. If it says 8 hours bio with lab, there's your answer. I always thought it was specifically the gen bio series for majors, as that is the material on the MCAT and what I was told by my college. It would seem that Dr. Josh is probably ok with those courses.

I thought so too; that's why i got the MSAR and looked it up. The category is Biology; there's another category that says Biology/zoology; another biochem; another genetics. Almost everyone says 8 credits of bio with lab "required"; some say others recommended (usually biochem; I think a couple may have said bio/zoology recommended); no other bios said required. Likewise, other categories required with lab were "inorganic chemistry", "organic chemistry" and "physics"

 

[scpod]

then why doesn't MSAR clarify that? some even say zoology is not required.

There is NO consensus requirement and MSAR is a "guide". They get some things wrong because every school is different, and the keep changing in some cases. Some are waaay different. UT Southwestern, for example, requires two YEARS of biology....but they spell it out for you:

"Two years as required for science majors, one year must include formal laboratoy experience. Minimum of 14 semester credit hours required, 8 for year with lab, and 6 for remainder or 12 lecture hours and two lab hours. Must have grade of C or better.
Includes all biology courses applied toward baccalaureate degree in traditional science field.
Includes courses in general biology, zoology, botany, microbiology, genetics, ecology, immunology, parasitology, ornithology, anatomy and physiology, entomology, pathophysiology, marine biology and herpetology. One semester of biochemistry will be accepted toward fulfilling this requirement. Any courses for non-science majors or courses taught for health career majors (nursing, pharmacy or allied health sciences) are not accepted. UT Southwestern strongly recommends taking at least one semester of biochemistry."

Still, the bottom line is: Assume nothing-- when in doubt check with the schools where you want to apply.

 

[Bacchus]

Doesn't it seem a bit unethical to not disclose an MCAT repeat? I understand where this is all coming from but I need the greatest chance.

 

[RySerr21]

Doesn't it seem a bit unethical to not disclose an MCAT repeat? I understand where this is all coming from but I need the greatest chance.

i dont see any ethical dilemma. if you want to give yourself the greatest chance, thats a different story.

 

[SupraDOc]

Under EC, Volunteer, Community Service: Total number of hours over span of experience (say a fraternity or a club), does this include meetings and all events or is it more geared towards the vol/comm service hours?

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Under EC, Volunteer, Community Service: Total number of hours over span of experience (say a fraternity or a club), does this include meetings and all events or is it more geared towards the vol/comm service hours?

I would include all events for a given entry, including meetings, etc . This becomes questionable when the entry seems to be service oriented, but in actuality, most of the hours were accumulated while sitting in a chair, eating free pizza. 🙄

 

[Dr. Josh]

There is NO consensus requirement and MSAR is a "guide". They get some things wrong because every school is different, and the keep changing in some cases. Some are waaay different. UT Southwestern, for example, requires two YEARS of biology....but they spell it out for you:

"Two years as required for science majors, one year must include formal laboratoy experience. Minimum of 14 semester credit hours required, 8 for year with lab, and 6 for remainder or 12 lecture hours and two lab hours. Must have grade of C or better.
Includes all biology courses applied toward baccalaureate degree in traditional science field.
Includes courses in general biology, zoology, botany, microbiology, genetics, ecology, immunology, parasitology, ornithology, anatomy and physiology, entomology, pathophysiology, marine biology and herpetology. One semester of biochemistry will be accepted toward fulfilling this requirement. Any courses for non-science majors or courses taught for health career majors (nursing, pharmacy or allied health sciences) are not accepted. UT Southwestern strongly recommends taking at least one semester of biochemistry."

Still, the bottom line is: Assume nothing-- when in doubt check with the schools where you want to apply.

what does Bradenton require, since that's one of my top choices?

 

[Powdermonkey]

Your post bac GPA is shown separately, but doing a post-bac does NOT start your GPA over. You will still have an overall GPA, which includes your undergrad work and your post-bac work.

Just an FYI for those that haven't already submitted their application, and dont plan on it for a little bit, my AACOMAS wasnt in until the beginning of September. I got verified around the middle of October, and got my first two secondaries a day or three later. Sent them back in the next day and got my first and only interview for the next week at DCOM. After that I cancelled my other interviews and withdrew from everywhere else cause I just "knew".

So just because you submit late, doesnt mean you still wont get in. 😀

 

[RySerr21]

Just an FYI for those that haven't already submitted their application, and dont plan on it for a little bit, my AACOMAS wasnt in until the beginning of September. I got verified around the middle of October, and got my first two secondaries a day or three later. Sent them back in the next day and got my first and only interview for the next week at DCOM. After that I cancelled my other interviews and withdrew from everywhere else cause I just "knew".

So just because you submit late, doesnt mean you still wont get in. 😀

but you wouldnt reccomend to apply late would you?

 

[RySerr21]

what does Bradenton require, since that's one of my top choices?

call the admissions office and get a direct response from someone who is paid to know what they are talking about. why take any chances? get a definitive answer. it will take 5 minutes.

here, i even looked up the phone number for you. 941-756-0690

 

[ks417]

Organic Chem wit lab 4 hours
Physics I wit lab 4 hours
A and P wit lab 4 hours
Biology through the Eyes of Faith 2 Hours
Old Testament 3 Hours



I've noticed unilaterally that sophomore year for pre-med students tend to be the same, my freshman, which just wrapped up I swung a 3.5 and took 18 hours and 17 hours a semester.

I'm a bit nervous about next year. How many people took Organic, Physics, and AP all at the same time and did well? What was your study habits, was it hard, what would you have changed?

honestly, i think my sophomore year is going to be my hardest.

Thanks!

 

[RySerr21]

Organic Chem wit lab 4 hours
Physics I wit lab 4 hours
A and P wit lab 4 hours
Biology through the Eyes of Faith 2 Hours
Old Testament 3 Hours



I've noticed unilaterally that sophomore year for pre-med students tend to be the same, my freshman, which just wrapped up I swung a 3.5 and took 18 hours and 17 hours a semester.

I'm a bit nervous about next year. How many people took Organic, Physics, and AP all at the same time and did well? What was your study habits, was it hard, what would you have changed?

honestly, i think my sophomore year is going to be my hardest.

Thanks!

biology through the eyes of faith sounds very interesting, to say the least.

i know of one person who did something sort of like that (instad of A&P it was an strictly Anatomy course) and it did not go well. but only you know what you are capable of handling. personally, there is no reason to take all those labs together at one time. if you do poorly in any one of them, you will regret it. and dont expect to use the excuse "well i got a C b/c I had two other labs....so thats okay, right?"

you are only a sophmore, plenty of time to get everyting you need done. i would spread it out more. youll probably be fine as is, but why stress yourself out more than necessary? just my opinion.

fyi, first semester my sophmore year i took Ochem, and three unrelated to medicine classes. second semster I took Ochem II, and Intro to cellular/molec bio along with two other non-science courses (religious studies and sociology).

 

[ks417]

I go to a non-seculair college since it's really the only place out in the middle of where I live. lol.

That's kinda the schedule they expect all pre-meds to take.. Honestly, I'd love to drop the old testament and biology through the eyes of faith classes since they just sound like reading/time consuming classes but I got to take them to graduate.

 

[prionsRbad]

but you wouldnt reccomend to apply late would you?

No, I don't think that's what he's saying. He's just letting people know that it's not a death sentence if you don't apply super early.

 

[RySerr21]

I go to a non-seculair college since it's really the only place out in the middle of where I live. lol.

That's kinda the schedule they expect all pre-meds to take.. Honestly, I'd love to drop the old testament and biology through the eyes of faith classes since they just sound like reading/time consuming classes but I got to take them to graduate.

who expects you to take that schedule? does someone else have control over the classes you take or are you free to take whatever you want as long as you fulfil all requirements necessary to graduate?

 

[scpod]

what does Bradenton require, since that's one of my top choices?

From the student handbook:

"Biology: A minimum of eight semester hours, of which a minimum of two hours of laboratory work must be completed. These eight hours may consist of general biology or zoology, or a combination of biology, zoology and botany."

It still isn't real specific, but I think you'll be fine. Micro and Genetics should fall under general bio....but you can always call just to make sure 🙂.

 

[matyd]

Yeah, I would personally spread those out more... You should have the freedom to take as many or as little classes as you like? Where I'm in school it only take 12 hours to be considered a full time student... Don't over load yourself, be the worst thing for you to do!! I'm having to pay for that myself... I have to retake an anatomy class because of it, take your time. I have physics, chemistry, and botany this semester and still a full time student. Just something to think about.

 

[moldovanits]

I took some courses when i was a psych major at a cc. i got 2'cs one in intro to chem,and intro to biology. ever since i have been doing much better.
got b's in gen chem 1, and 2.
ochem 1 b .
ochem 2 b.
biochemistry 1 b.and molecular biol b.Will i have to put the old intro courses my sgpa? or will that affect my chances?

 

[moldovanits]

As far as i know i think biology requirements mean. bio 1 and bio 2 just like ochem 1 and ochem 2.

 

[RySerr21]

As far as i know i think biology requirements mean. bio 1 and bio 2 just like ochem 1 and ochem 2.

unfortunately, its more complicated than that. my school doesnt even offer "bio 1" and "bio 2" so i really dont even know what the content of those classes are. schools accept a wide vareity of biology courses to fulfil their requirements and it differs from school to school.

 

[203712]

I would include all events for a given entry, including meetings, etc . This becomes questionable when the entry seems to be service oriented, but in actuality, most of the hours were accumulated while sitting in a chair, eating free pizza. 🙄

yea all events 👍. Took a clinical research class which required 4 hours a week of working and 4 hours a week in meeting/discussing. I spent 8 hours a week doing some of the most boringest stuff ever, hell no am i cutting my time in half.