2009-2010 Internship Thread

[psychmama]

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I just wanted to add a thought after re-reading your post, In8Joy. If the sites were the ones setting up the follow-up calls with applicants (and not the other way around) then I'd take that as a signal that the site is fine with additional pre-match day contact. In such a case, maybe I'd try to think of some question to ask that expressed my interest in their program. I guess it would depend on whether I thought the site was scheduling the follow-up because it expects most applicants will have additional questions, or merely to accommodate a few nervous applicants.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

So I went to the wrong location today (they are 5ish miles apart)...that was an awesome way to start my interview day. I missed out on the "pre" meet and greet, but I was on time for the actual interviews....blah.

I did take a nap this afternoon, since my body was not digging all of the running around I've been doing. 3 down, 5 to go.

 

[in8joy]

I'll give you my 2 cents, although I suspect others may differ. I think that many sites really would prefer that you not call them until after the match, as they worry it could break the APPIC guidelines about not disclosing preferences for ranking. At my interview yesterday, the training director actually said that she did not want applicants to even e-mail her a thank you -- she does not read them and they have no bearing on the site's decision making process. A few other sites have expressed a similar view. I've decided not to make any follow-up calls, although in a few cases I did email a brief thank you after my interview.

On the other hand, if I did have questions that remained unanswered after interview day, I might contact the site and ask. Like you, however, I'd be hard pressed to think of additional questions I'd want to ask in most cases. Do I think that applicants who do this sort of follow-up gain an advantage? I don't know, but I suspect not. There's no way of knowing for sure...

I agree with what you said - I would not normally call sites unless I had genuine questions. In a couple of cases though I wasn't really given a choice. At the end of the interview, they said, "and now we're going to schedule a time that the training director can call you and answer additional questions". I would feel weird saying, "no, that's ok I don't have any!" 🙂

 

[in8joy]

So I went to the wrong location today (they are 5ish miles apart)...that was an awesome way to start my interview day. I missed out on the "pre" meet and greet, but I was on time for the actual interviews....blah.

I did take a nap this afternoon, since my body was not digging all of the running around I've been doing. 3 down, 5 to go.

Eeek! At least you made it to the interview on time. You've got to figure there are going to be at least SOME mishaps during this process. I've had TWO sites mess up the times of my interviews - and been waiting by the phone for a call that never came. It sucks having to call and say, "hey, what gives?" Although it did give me a chance to show how gracious and forgiving I am! 🙂

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Eeek! At least you made it to the interview on time. You've got to figure there are going to be at least SOME mishaps during this process.

The intern who met me was the one who did it last year (they said each year at least 1 person goes to the wrong place, since it is confusing).

 

[psychmama]

I agree with what you said - I would not normally call sites unless I had genuine questions. In a couple of cases though I wasn't really given a choice. At the end of the interview, they said, "and now we're going to schedule a time that the training director can call you and answer additional questions". I would feel weird saying, "no, that's ok I don't have any!" 🙂

I haven't run into any sites wanting to do this sort of follow-up, so I guess I find it surprising. Are these VAs or counseling centers? Most of my sites are hospitals, so maybe that's the difference? Anyway, I agree that if it seems like the expected thing, then you're probably better off coming up with a question or 2 to ask (even if you already know the answer). I've had something similar -- when there's a lengthy orientation and later the interviewer has asked "What questions do you have about our program?" I want to say "Not much, it's all pretty clear". Of course, I try to come up with something to ask anyway -- just to sound interested.
Good luck!

 

[psychmama]

The intern who met me was the one who did it last year (they said each year at least 1 person goes to the wrong place, since it is confusing).

Hey - I think being late to some interviews is par for the course. The other day I was at an orientation that started 20 minutes late because so many people called to say they were having trouble finding the place! I hope it all worked out in the end for you.

 

[Eruca]

Hey - I think being late to some interviews is par for the course. The other day I was at an orientation that started 20 minutes late because so many people called to say they were having trouble finding the place! I hope it all worked out in the end for you.

I had the opposite problem the other day.. I showed up to an open house about 5 minutes early (not as early as I'd like, but some en route confusion happened). Turns out nearly the whole group was there and the director had already started! This is added to the fact that nearly everyone was in their full funeral director suits, even though it was an open house (no interviews). I wore nice business casual and although felt 'odd' at first, I later embraced the fact that I looked nice enough to work, but didn't blend in with all the rest. 🙂

Oh, and for those of you who remember one of my later posts..I'm still not convinced that open houses don't have some potential for even a teensy bit of influence, as we all wore nametags, signed in, and had our names printed in the brochure. Not to mention the staff made a point of looking at people's nametags. hmmmm.

 

[psychmama]

I think this process is starting to get to me. Last night I was dreaming about my last interview and re-running all of my answers to a clinical vignette applicants had been given. When I woke up I couldn't remember if the true facts (and my answers) were what I had dreamed or what actually had happened in the interview 3 days ago. I guess this would definitely qualify as an "anxiety dream"...

 

[PD2004]

What is everyone's opinion on the optimal time to send thank-you emails? I've heard some folks say as soon as possible after the interview, and others say wait until closer to the day ROLs are submitted. Thoughts?

 

[psychmama]

Just my opinion, but waiting so close to the ranking date seems a bit transparent -- like you're trying to get on their good side or something. I'd personally vote for soon after the interview.

 

[BellaPsyD]

in Kissimmee/Orlando, West Palm Beach, Delray Beach, Tampa, Bradenton this week - anyone else interviewing in those areas? Maybe we'll run into each other! 🙂

PS- I'm finding interview/"vacationing" in Florida to be very boring by myself!!! What do you guys do in your down time?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

PS- I'm finding interview/"vacationing" in Florida to be very boring by myself!!! What do you guys do in your down time?

Go to the beach!! I miss the beach....as it has been COLD everywhere I've interviewed in the past week.

As for what to do in your down time:
1. Hang out with friends (2 of my first 3 interviews had friends near)
2. Catch up on my reading
3. Work on my poster for AAS....okay, I haven't done this yet, but it is a goal.
4. Catch up on sleep!
5. Site see.....I haven't done this yet, but I am debating taking tomorrow after my interview to check out Baton Rouge, and/or drive down to New Orleans (which is one of my fav. cities of all time)

 

[BellaPsyD]

^ LOL- we have switched! I live in the cold and have only interviewed in warm places...it's making me very happy!!!

 

[sicologia]

To all of those who are in this crazy process, I just want to send out warm regards! I finished with my last interview about a half hour ago and I'm very relieved. I can't say for sure what the site thinks of me, but I'm pleased with the things that I presented while being 'drilled'. Good luck to you all!😀

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Congrats!

I'm only halfway over....blah.

I finally saw my first "repeat" person. We caught up about halfway through the day and realized we had both been at the same interview on Friday.

 

[BellaPsyD]

ended up extending my FL stay! (new interviews)...which is great....considering the awful weather Chicago is getting right now......

 

[psychmama]

Congrats all who are finished and those finishing up.
I have 2 more this week, and then I should be done...
This process has been interesting, but I'm ready to think about something else for a while.

Six weeks until Match Day!😛

 

[BellaPsyD]

^ ugh, my last interview is February 2!! So I won't be done for awhile.

3 down, 2 more this week, 2 next week, 1 in Feb. Actually waiting to hear from 2 more sites!

Oddly enough, I have a phone interview Jan 22....it's "phase 1"- if I make it to "phase 2" I have no idea when I would fly to the site!! Jan 22- Feb 4 (ROL deadline) isn't much time!!! Talk about last minute flights! (back to an area I've already been too, also! grrrr)

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I just got into town a little while ago (Oklahoma City). There is some kind of reception thing in the hotel that I may check out before running out for some food. I'm definitely glad I brought my coat...it is cold!!!

I'm officially halfway through my interviews, and I still have very little idea of how I'm "doing". I guess I'm doing well, but it is hard to really get a feeling, since many times the interviewers are trying to be objective and fair. Darn you objective and fair, I just want to know someplace (or more) really wants me!

 

[BellaPsyD]

^ right, or, I think I did really well, but I realize they are friendly and cracking jokes with everyone else as well! So I don't know!!!

waiting in PBI for my flight into TPA....

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

^ right, or, I think I did really well, but I realize they are friendly and cracking jokes with everyone else as well! So I don't know!!!

waiting in PBI for my flight into TPA....

Enjoy FL!

I got lucky with a GORGEOUS day here today.

How is everyone else doing with their interviews? I have 3 left....and they can't be over soon enough.

 

[psychmama]

Last interview for me is tomorrow. I guess it's been going alright, but I'm sort of down and out of sorts. Not sure, but I think fatigue is beginning to affect my mood and cause me to doubt myself. Like others have said, I find it hard to gauge the reactions of many interviewers. In some respects, I think that's because this process is different than many job interviews. I think many sites are afraid to let on how they feel about us for two reasons. First, they may worry that over-enthusiasm will lead to claims of inappropriate communications under the APPIC rules (eg, "You are a really strong candidate -- you're our first choice"). Second, like the applicants, the sites are not in full control of the process. Investing too heavily in certain candidates may seem counterproductive if both sides know the computer will ultimately decide eveyone's fate for next year.

Anyway, is anyone else feeling sort of fed up at this point? It would be nice to know I'm not the only one.🙁

 

[in8joy]

Psychmama - you are not alone! 😳 I too am so OVER interviews! Thankfully, I finished my last one this morning 😀. This was by far the most intense process of my graduate career! I had the same kind of vague feeling about a lot of my sites, not sure if they liked me or not. It seems like some people are trying really hard to be "neutral" when I feel like they should just react normally. They don't have to tell you they love you, or even anything at all! But a smile now and then won't kill anyone - I mean we're all therapists for gosh sakes!

Good luck to everyone who isn't done- it will be over soon!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Anyway, is anyone else feeling sort of fed up at this point? It would be nice to know I'm not the only one.🙁

Yes.

It isn't anything against the sites....they have all been great people, it is just a grind once you factor in the travel, delays, hotel changes, etc. I've been on 11 flights, and I have 6 left to go. The flight delays are the worst, and that is *with* an internet connection!

I can't wait until tomorrow....as I have a direct flight into my next site, and I can lounge around all afternoon at a plush 4* (Thank you priceline!). A friend is driving up for a night, so that should be fun.

 

[sicologia]

First, they may worry that over-enthusiasm will lead to claims of inappropriate communications under the APPIC rules (eg, "You are a really strong candidate -- you're our first choice"). Second, like the applicants, the sites are not in full control of the process. Investing too heavily in certain candidates may seem counterproductive if both sides know the computer will ultimately decide eveyone's fate for next year.

Anyway, is anyone else feeling sort of fed up at this point? It would be nice to know I'm not the only one.🙁

Yes. I agree that the neutral stance seemed a little awkward at times. I do respect the rules, however, after going through this process thus far, I can honestly say it's hard to tell whether the sites want you to match them or not. Oddly, a few times with 2 of my sites, I caught the sort of hint, "we're glad you live nearby" or "Good. So, that way you won't have to travel so far" comments which felt great, but is certainly NO guarantee. It would be very difficult for any interviewer to not show any hints or interest at all. I've heard from previous interns at several sites that they ranked according to how well they felt the interview went. We shall see, right?

 

[psychanon]

Anyway, is anyone else feeling sort of fed up at this point? It would be nice to know I'm not the only one.🙁

Yes! I've been really grouchy lately. All of my interviews so far have gone fine, and everyone's been nice and all, but I just can't wait for them to be over. And I'm not even halfway done! I think another big part of it is how much money I'm spending. My credit card bill has never been so high, and it's scary.

 

[BellaPsyD]

^ yes. $$

 

[Eruca]

Yes. I agree that the neutral stance seemed a little awkward at times. I do respect the rules, however, after going through this process thus far, I can honestly say it's hard to tell whether the sites want you to match them or not. Oddly, a few times with 2 of my sites, I caught the sort of hint, "we're glad you live nearby" or "Good. So, that way you won't have to travel so far" comments which felt great, but is certainly NO guarantee. It would be very difficult for any interviewer to not show any hints or interest at all. I've heard from previous interns at several sites that they ranked according to how well they felt the interview went. We shall see, right?

I've also had a hard time figuring out how well I'm doing. ...but it seems like the communication really depends on the site. You can say quite a bit without giving away any ranking info (which is the main thing to avoid). I just interviewed at a site yesterday and sent a thank you email this morning. The director sent a reply within an hour that included, "We really enjoyed meeting you and we feel that you would be a great fit for our internship program."

This is no guarantee at all, but definitely felt nice to hear.. particularly since I don't have that many interviews!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I think another big part of it is how much money I'm spending. My credit card bill has never been so high, and it's scary.

I have an excel sheet with all of my expenses (though I guesstimated my food, as I didn't keep track for my first few interviews)....and it is scary. 🙁 Darn you SUM formulas!!!

 

[sicologia]

The director sent a reply within an hour that included, "We really enjoyed meeting you and we feel that you would be a great fit for our internship program."

After sending a thank you email, I got one back from the TD saying "Thank you for coming- best of luck in the process- Dr X." I'd say that your reply sounds much more inviting than mine. I'd also have to say that my email sounds more like a "See ya" than a "Rank us. We loved you." email. Now, I can only hope.

 

[Eruca]

After sending a thank you email, I got one back from the TD saying "Thank you for coming- best of luck in the process- Dr X." I'd say that your reply sounds much more inviting than mine. I'd also have to say that my email sounds more like a "See ya" than a "Rank us. We loved you." email. Now, I can only hope.

🙁 Sorry about that, Sicologia. Though who really knows? The only thing that keeps coming up in this process is how random it seems. I took a major hit with a ton of unexpected rejections (hah, there were some expected rejections), that it felt nice to finally have something good to report. I'm either gonna squeak by this process, or the clearinghouse won't know what hit it! (hmmm, was I the first to use the "C" word on this thread?). Well, it's done now. 😀

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Most if not all of my TDs said that they would not contact me further. I've had to send along my APPIC # since I didn't get it in time....but those responses seem to be pretty neutral. I dislike this process.

 

[ctpsychology]

Thanks to everyone for being so honest about what a pain this process is. It does feel very invalidating at times seeing that we all have spent the last 4-5 years of our life devoted to obtaining the degree. I had my last interview this week and one of the interviewers was very rude, which was a surprise since all the people at my other interviews were so nice. I am not even planning to rank it. Hope everyone does well in the match process!

 

[psychmama]

I agree with you all about the process being somewhat invalidating. I had an interview this week where one of the interviewers basically just read off questions to me, and after my responses he basically just paused and asked another. No feedback, no acknowledgment, and hardly any affect at all! The second interviewer was great -- really pleasant, conversational, and interested in what I had to say.

What do you do with that as an applicant?😕😕

 

[orthogonal]

I agree with you all about the process being somewhat invalidating. I had an interview this week where one of the interviewers basically just read off questions to me, and after my responses he basically just paused and asked another. No feedback, no acknowledgment, and hardly any affect at all! The second interviewer was great -- really pleasant, conversational, and interested in what I had to say.

What do you do with that as an applicant?😕😕

Sometimes I wonder if the sites realize that we are evaluating them as much as they are evaluating us...that would make me want to rank the site lower because it says something about the way they view applicants and could possibly give insight into the way they conduct supervision. I went on a recent interview and felt like I was being interrogated. Dissertation questions, stats questions, therapy questions, questions on CBT, on research design, on why I want to come there, and why they should want me.

I think we as students really need to find a way to take the power back in the process...before its too late! 😱

 

[BellaPsyD]

how is everyone ranking? Spreadsheet or pros/cons? Gut feeling? What are the factors you are using to rank?

 

[psychmama]

how is everyone ranking? Spreadsheet or pros/cons? Gut feeling? What are the factors you are using to rank?

Here are some factors I'm considering:

• commute time (since I can't relocate)

• how closely it matches my training and career interests

• choice of rotations

• quality of training

• reputation

• quality of life issues (How well are the interns treated? Do you have to work evenings? Is there support for completion of dissertation?)

• stipend/benefits

• Do the interns there seem happy? Would I be happy there?

• Gut feeling -- often influenced by what I thought of the Training Dir, the current interns, and the other psychologists I met.

Oh -- almost forgot this one: "Does the site hire its former interns?"

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Spreadsheet. I think I'm going to pick 12-15 areas that I find important, and then I am going to see how it shakes out. I thought of doing a weighted system, but then I realized I was getting far to involved with it. So far I'm going to rank all of the places I've been to.....but I have a clear preference for the top few (though not really in order yet).

Argh....time to not think about this for awhile.

 

[BellaPsyD]

I have a problem, maybe you guys can weigh in:

there is a site that is a perfect match to my interests and I would not even have to move! Problem? 50-60 hr work weeks, on call on every other wknd. Supervisor was downright MEAN (and interns said he is always like that and they look miserable), no dissertation time, and low pay.

My other sites, nothing jumps out at me, but nothing I would be unhappy with. Plus, I could relocate to warmer cities for all of them, nice supervisors, happy interns, still not much pay... I guess- should I put quality of life ahead considering the circumstances?

Ultimately I want to work in a major hospital- I hear it is hard for psychologists to gain jobs in them? So I was told to grab this oppurtunity (I did well at the interview).....but I just don't know if I'd be happy! I've been ripping my hair out deciding this. All 10 of my sites seem to be divided this way: that one site (at home)....or all my "warm" weather sites!!! Help!

 

[psychmama]

I have a problem, maybe you guys can weigh in:

there is a site that is a perfect match to my interests and I would not even have to move! Problem? 50-60 hr work weeks, on call on every other wknd. Supervisor was downright MEAN (and interns said he is always like that and they look miserable), no dissertation time, and low pay.

My other sites, nothing jumps out at me, but nothing I would be unhappy with. Plus, I could relocate to warmer cities for all of them, nice supervisors, happy interns, still not much pay... I guess- should I put quality of life ahead considering the circumstances?

Ultimately I want to work in a major hospital- I hear it is hard for psychologists to gain jobs in them? So I was told to grab this oppurtunity (I did well at the interview).....but I just don't know if I'd be happy! I've been ripping my hair out deciding this. All 10 of my sites seem to be divided this way: that one site (at home)....or all my "warm" weather sites!!! Help!

This is a tough one. I doubt there's just one answer to how much to prize quality of life over reputation/training rigor. I eliminated a couple of hospitals from the top of my list because conditions just seemed too miserable for me to be happy there. On the other hand, the best fit for my interests is a pretty intense hospital where I'd be working several nights a week and probably under a good deal of pressure. Still -- they have a great rep and traditionally hire their former interns. I'm trying to decide whether to rank them higher than a very good VA which also is a great fit and an easier commute. No contest in terms of quality of life there -- VA wins hands down!

I think the precise weighting will vary among individuals. In my case, I have three school-age kids. So I need to think more about quality of life. If I were single or without kids, on the other hand, I'd lean more strongly toward the intense hospital site. Not sure about your situation, but I'd be tempted by the happier interns and nicer weather... The mean training director sounds pretty grim too🙁.

Is there a middle-road here? Of the warm sites, is one a hospital that's more competitive or the closest match to your interests?

 

[sicologia]

Ultimately I want to work in a major hospital... Help!

BellaPsyd, I would think that if you don't get the major hospital experience while on internship, it doesn't mean you can't work in one after you're finished. If I were in your shoes, I would consider one of your other sites because a year with a curmudgeon can really seem like 5. You may also find things about other settings you never thought you'd like. I'm only saying this because I always thought I would ultimately love the hospital setting and I've seen so many benefits to other settings while interviewing these past few months. Good luck to you!

 

[sicologia]

Here are some factors I'm considering:...

Thanks for sharing your factors, psychmama. Mine are very similar, although I'm one of those people who usually go with my gut feeling 9 times out of 10. In this case, for me, all the other stuff seems to actually support my gut feeling so it's been good practice to give this some thought. I even gave some of my factors likert scales.

 

[Eruca]

I have a problem, maybe you guys can weigh in:

Honestly, I'm in the quality of life camp. The idea of being around so many unhappy people sounds awful to me. Since you brought up the no dissertation time, were you thinking you would be writing your dissertation while also working 50-60 hrs and on-call every other weekend?? Hmmm...

At the end of the day (or training year), I think I'll learn more by feeling supported and engaging with enthusiastic people who enjoy their jobs. Don't know about you, but I'm ready for good mentorship and inspiration!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Maybe I'm a masochist....but I'd vote for the 55-60+ hour a week place, if it is a well respected hospital. I put a few into the mix, though I admittedly chose more VAs because they met my training goals better, and still placed well. No sense working myself to the bone (60+ hr/wk for $20ish) if I can get similar training and post-docs through a VA (40ish). If you think it will make a difference in your post-doc placement, I'd strongly consider it.

 

[psychmama]

Thanks for sharing your factors, psychmama. Mine are very similar, although I'm one of those people who usually go with my gut feeling 9 times out of 10. In this case, for me, all the other stuff seems to actually support my gut feeling so it's been good practice to give this some thought. I even gave some of my factors likert scales.

Oooh cool, Likert😎! Seriously, I think it will come down to some combination of subjective and objective factors for me. When I look at my tentative ranking list I close my eyes and try to imagine how I'll feel receiving the news that I've matched at that particular site. I think this is a good barometer of my true preferences rather than how I think I'm "supposed to" feel.

In the end, it looks like almost 70% of us will match to our first or second choice, and 98% will end up at one of our top five ranked sites. I think I could be reasonably happy at any of my top five choices (although I'd be happiest with #1 or 2 of course😀).

 

[orthogonal]

Hi Bella - I also find myself making a tough decision between a site with a prestigious name where the facilities looked rather old/TD seemed uninvested/interns seemed a bit overworked and a newly built VA where the TD, interns, and faculty made me feel wanted, there was exceptional focus on training, great match, and awesome hours/QOL. I just know that the former places extremely well for postdoc, etc.

What to do, what to do. 😕

 

[Eruca]

Hi Bella - I also find myself making a tough decision between a site with a prestigious name where the facilities looked rather old/TD seemed uninvested/interns seemed a bit overworked and a newly built VA where the TD, interns, and faculty made me feel wanted, there was exceptional focus on training, great match, and awesome hours/QOL. I just know that the former places extremely well for postdoc, etc.

Do the latter, the VA interns, not place well for postdoc? Admittingly, that's one of my main questions during interviews. There just must be so much variability because the sites I've been to are really hard core about life balance, not over-working the interns, and keeping everyone supported and mentally healthy (and these are VAs).

Another wrench, do any of you have partners? The QOL for my partner has been another thread in my thinking/decision making.

 

[BellaPsyD]

^ yes, I have been thinking of him to as he will be moving with me- AND my pets.

Thanks for the opinions everyone. I have been leaning toward the QOL ones as well. However there is that nagging feeling about the hospital. I just think I still need to learn vs. supervision where I am TOLD what to do, KWIM? Ugh. Time to make my pros and cons list....

 

[Cosmo75]

Just some perspective. I'm at a VA, which has excellent work-life balance and I'm exhausted by the end of the week. It's a 40-45 hour per week internship, but there's something about doing clinical work full time that is different than any other aspect of grad school, even when I felt like I couldn't have more to do!

I didn't rank a site because it was one of the 65+ hour sites, similar to what you described. Interns looked unhappy/exhausted. Maybe because I worked long hours in my previous job I was leery of doing it again. But I was concerned about burning out. I'd hate to come out of internship hating what I do.

As for post-doc opportunities for VA interns, from what I can tell people place just fine. You certainly have an "in" for a VA post-doc I'd think. It just depends on what you want to do. I'm going back to an academic hospital with a 50-50 research/clinical 2 year post doc.

I vote for the places that seem less painful as long as the training seems solid and it felt like a good fit. In the end I followed my gut when I ranked.