2011-2012 Psychiatry Interview/Match Thread (Invites, Reviews, etc)

digitlnoize

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In honor of ERAS opening today, I'd like to start a thread where we applicants can put all of our match talk.

I am going to keep a relatively uptodate version of the invite list here on this page for future SDN searchers/applicants.

Later in the season, as people post interview reviews for programs I'll index those and put the links here too. For the interview review format, see last year's thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=775229&highlight=interview

Pingouin has volunteered to take anonymous PM's if you don't feel like sharing with your screen name. You can PM Pingouin here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/private.php?do=newpm&u=66491

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Interview Review List

California
UCLA-Semel: Review 1
UCSF: Review 1 Review 2
UCLA-Harbor: Review 1 Review 2
UC Davis: Review 1
UCLA-NPI: Review 1

Colorado
U Colorado: Review 1 Review 2

Conn.
Yale: Review 1 Review 2 Review 3 Review 4

District of Columbia
Georgetown: Review 1

Florida
University of Florida: Review 1
USF: Review 1

Georgia
Emory: Review 1 Review 2 Review 3

Idaho
UW-Boise: Review 1

Illinois
Northwestern: Review 1
U Chicago: Review 1 Review 2
Rush: Review 1
UIC: Review 1

Indiana
U Indiana: Review 1

Louisiana
LSU New Orleans: Review 1
LSU-Oschner: Review 1
Tulane: Review 1

Maine
Maine Medical Center: Review 1

Maryland
Hopkins: Review 1 Review 2 Review 3 Review 4
U Maryland: Review 1

Mass.
Harvard Longwood: Review 1 Review 2
Cambridge Health Alliance: Review 1 Review 2
MGH-McLean: Review 1 Review 2 Review 3
UMass: Review 1
Harvard South Shore: Review 1

Michigan
U Michigan: Review 1
Wright State: Review 1

Minnesota
U Minn.: Review 1
Hannepin: Review 1

New Mexico:
UNM: Review 1 Review 2

New York
NYU: Review 1 Review 2
SUNY-Upstate: Review 1 Review 2
Mt. Sinai: Review 1 Review 2 Review 3 Review 4
Cornell: Review 1 Review 2 Review 3
Columbia: Review 1 Review 2 Review 3
Einstein: Review 1
St. Luke's-Roosevelt: Review 1
Beth Israel: Review 1

North Carolina
Duke: Review 1 Review 2 Review 3 Review 4 Review 4
UNC: Review 1 Review 2 Review 3
Wake Forest: Review 1 Review 2

Ohio
Cleveland Clinic: Review 1
Case Western: Review 1 Review 2

Oregon
OHSU: Review 1 Review 2

Pennsylvania
Albert Einstein: Review 1
WPIC: Review 1 Review 2 Review 3 Review 4
Penn: Review 1
Drexel: Review 1

Rhode Island
Brown: Review 1

South Carolina
USC-Palmetto: Review 1 Review 2
MUSC: Review 1

Tennessee
Vanderbilt: Review 1

Utah
U Utah: Review 1

Virginia
VCU: Review 1
UVA: Review 1 Review 2

Washington State
UW-Seattle: Review 1 Review 2

Wisconsin:
UW: Review 1
MCW: Review 1

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Current Invite List: updated 11/3/11

Undisclosed (First Known Invite)
Shufflin 9/6

Alabama
University of South Alabama: CTR 9/21

Arizona
Banner Good Samaritan: jecrunner 9/7, psychDO38 9/7, Cheesewoman 9/6, CTR 9/7
Maricopa: CTR 10/3, spamwidrice 10/18
Univeristy of Arizona/UPHK: psychDO38 9/16, thupper44 9/17, Cheesewoman 9/22, sciencbird 10/5
University of Arizona: thupper44 9/20, psychDO38 9/20, CTR 9/22, cheesewoman 9/26, urban achiever 9/28, Sciencebird 9/28

California
Cedars-Sinai: Cheesewoman 9/22, LEdaddy 9/22
Loma Linda: PistolPete 10/13
San Mateo: LEdaddy 10/6
UC Davis: samwise2 9/21
UCLA-Harbor: psychphan 9/8, thupper44 9/15, samwise2 9/6
UCLA-Kern: Cheesewoman 9/21
UCLA-Semel: nononono 10/23
UCSD: Sciencebird 10/3
USC: LEdaddy 9/26, spamwidrice 10/12
UCSF: MiddleRoad 9/30, samwise2 10/11, nononono 10/25

Colorado
UC- Denver: urban achiever 9/12, psychphan 9/13, thupper44 9/15, classof2011 9/19, samwise2 9/12

Connecticut
Yale: NoNoNoNo 9/12, belle54321 9/10, fae 9/19, LEdaddy 10/1, samwise2 9/12, splik 10/17
UConn: isles7 9/26, urban achiever 10/5
IoL/HH: SmallBird 10/4, spamwidrice 10/6, futuredro 10/7, belle 10/9, Swisych 10/4

District of Columbia
Georgetown: classof2011 9/23, spamwidrice 9/30
GWU: nononono 10/23

Florida
University of Florida: thupper44 9/19, canhasnaps 9/20, neopsych12 9/20 JabsterL 9/24
University of Miami: canhasnaps 9/19, anonymous 9/22, spamwidrice 10/19
University of South Florida: canhasnaps 10/13

Georgia
Emory University: classof2011 9/7, JabsterL 9/7, phorensic 9/9, anonymous 9/19, neopsych12 9/20, samwise2 9/20
Georgia Health Sciences Univ. (aka MCG): digitlnoize 9/12, urban achiever 9/12, FutureDrO 9/21, anonymous 9/21
Morehouse: thupper44 9/15

Hawaii
University of Hawaii: spamwidrice 10/9, Cheesewoman 10/10

Illinois
Northwestern: Nononono 9/20, classof2011 9/20
U Illinois - Chicago: NoNoNoNo 10/13, Pistolpete 10/31

Indiana
Indiana University: digitlnoize 9/7, pingouin 9/7

Iowa
U Iowa: digitlnoize 9/15, SmallBird 9/28

Kentucky
UK: pingouin 9/20, digitlnoize 9/20
U Louisville: digitlnoize 9/20, pingouin 9/22

Louisiana
LSU: canhasnaps 9/1, psychphan 9/8
Tulane: psychphan 9/13, canhasnaps 9/13, Urban Achiever 9/23, anonymous 9/27

Maine
Maine Medical Center: urban achiever 9/27

Maryland
UMaryland: classof2011 9/12, neopsych12 9/16, urban achiever 9/16, JabsterL 10/11
Johns Hopkins: canhasnaps 9/27, splik 10/05, samwise2 9/27

Massachusetts
Bay State: spamwidrice 10/12
Cambridge Health Alliance: Nononono 11/1
HSS: SmallBird 9/13, psychphan 9/13, thupper44 9/16, spamwidrice 9/29
Longwood: MiddleRoad 9/19, isles7 10/5, belle 10/5, samwise2 9/26
MGH/McLean: samwise2 10/17, MiddleRoad 10/24
UMass: jecrunner 9/19

Michigan
Henry Ford- Detroit: psychDO38 9/15
MSU: psychDO38 9/12
UMichigan: pingouin 9/19, thupper44 9/18

Missouri
University of Missouri-Columbia: digitlnoize 9/28, pingouin 9/27
Wash U in STL: pingouin 9/13, neopsych12 9/20, spamwidrice 10/5

Nebraska
Creighton - JabsterL 10/18

Nevada
UNSOM Reno- 10/5

New Hampshire
Dartmouth: samwise2 9/23, Swisych 9/23

New Jersey
UMDNJ/NJMS- Newark: shrinktobe 10/3, futuredro 10/4, SmallBird 10/14
UMDNJ/RWJ- Cooper: anonymous 9/19, spamwidrice 9/28, futuredro 10/20
UMDNJ/RWJ-Piscataway: SmallBird 9/15, isles7 9/22, shrinktobe 10/3, spamwidrice 10/10, futuredro 10/3
Bergen Regional MC: Swisych 10/18

New Mexico
UNM: psychphan 9/13, CTR 10/4, urban achiever 10/6

New York
Albany Medical Center: raisa024 9/16, spamwidrice 10/3
Beth Israel: isles7 10/4
Columbia: NoNoNoNo 10/10, samwise2 10/5, belle 10/18
Cornell: NoNoNoNo 9/26, samwise2 9/26
Einstein: isles7 9/20, NoNoNoNo 9/26
LIJ: isles7 10/11
MSSM: splik 9/20, MiddleRoad 9/20, isles7 9/20, belle54321 9/20, NoNoNoNo, 9/26
NYMC-Westchester: shrinktobe 10/3
NYU: ledaddy 9/14, Nononono 9/19, samwise2 9/27
St. Luke's-Roosevelt: isles7 9/26, SmallBird 9/26
Stony Brook: isles7 9/26, belle54321 9/26
SUNY-Buffalo: spamwidrice 9/19
SUNY-Upstate: digitlnoize 9/15

North Carolina
Duke: canhasnaps 9/20, splik 9/20, classof2011 9/20, SmallBird 9/20, psychphan 9/21, belle54321 9/13, NoNoNoNo 9/?, samwise2 9/20
East Carolina: digitlnoize 9/13, FutureDrO 9/13, psychphan 9/13, anonymous 9/27
UNC/Chapel Hill: NoNoNoNo 9/19, pingouin 9/19, canhasnaps 9/19, neopsych12 9/19, psychphan 9/21, anonymous 9/19, belle54321 9/19, classof2011 9/28
Wake Forest: digitlnoize 9/7, canhasnaps 9/7, psychphan 9/8, FuturedrO 9/28, anonymous 9/28

Ohio
Cleveland Clinic: neopsych 9/23
Case Western: SmallBird 9/7, neopsych12 9/7, FutureDrO 9/14, Swisych 9/7
Ohio State: jecrunner 9/8, pingouin 9/12, thupper44 9/15 , FutureDrO 9/20, digitlnoize 9/20
University of Cincinnati: Urban Achiever 9/28, pingouin 9/28

Oklahoma
The University of Oklahoma - Tulsa: thupper44 9/15

Oregon
OHSU: psychphan 10/4, canhasnaps 10/4, urban achiever 10/3, sciencebird 10/7

Pennsylvania
Albert Einstein: belle54321 9/28, Swisych 10/11, futuredro 10/25
Alleghany General: psychphan 9/16, canhasnaps 9/16
Penn State (Hershey): SmallBird 10/18, digitlnoize 11/2
Thomas Jeff: classof2011 9/20, isles7 9/20, urban achiever 9/20, belle54321 9/20, anonymous 9/16
UPenn: anonymous 9/28, NoNoNoNo 10/19
WPIC/Pitt: splik 10/05, samwise2 10/3, psychphan 10/29

Rhode Island
Brown: belle 10/13, Swisych 10/17

South Carolina
MUSC: digitlnoize 9/13, canhasnaps 9/13 psychphan 9/16
USC-Palmetto: canhasnaps 9/16, FutureDrO 9/16, psychphan 9/16, digitlnoize 9/16, CTR 9/16

Tennessee
Meharry: TaiMD 9/14
University of Tennessee: CTR 10/11
Vanderbilt: digitlnoize 9/20, pingouin 9/26, SmallBird 9/29

Texas
A&M- Scott and White: Cheesewoman 9/21, psychDO38 9/21
Baylor: thupper44 9/22, Cheesewoman 10/7
JPS-Fort Worth: psychDO38 9/12, CTR 9/8, Sciencebird 10/11
Texas Tech - Lubbock: CTR 10/10
UTHSC- San Antonio: psychDO38 9/22, sciencebird 9/26
UT Houston: Cheesewoman 9/22, thupper44 9/22
UTMB-Galveston: psychDO38 9/13, phorensic 9/13, CTR 9/13, anonymous 9/19
UTSW- Austin: psychDO38 9/23, Cheesewoman 9/23, Urban Achiever 9/28, sciencebird 10/5
UTSW- Dallas: anonymous 9/20, classof2011 10/5

Vermont
University of Vermont: digitlnoize 9/28, samwise2 9/28

Virginia
University of Virginia: digitlnoize 9/14, FutureDrO 9/14, psychphan 9/16, CTR 10/12
Virginia Commonwealth: digitlnoize 9/8, futuredro 10/15, CTR 11/2
Virginia Tech/Carilion Clinic (Roanoke): digitlnoize 10/8, CTR 10/11

Washington
University of Washington: MiddleRoad 9/20, canhasnaps 9/27, NoNoNoNo 9/?, samwise2 9/13, sciencebird 9/29

West Virginia
WVU: digitlnoize 10/10, JabsterL 10/27

Wisconsin
Medical College of Wisconsin: digitlnoize 10/17, smallbird 10/17, pistolpete 10/25
University of Wisconsin: urban achiever 9/15

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psych

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Submitted my ERAS! Now waiting (in)patiently for interviews :xf:
 

digitlnoize

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Submitted my ERAS! Now waiting (in)patiently for interviews :xf:

Right there with ya. Not expecting much until our board transcripts get loaded...

Edit: My transcript was just uploaded. Let's go programs, I'm waiting!
 
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LEdaddy

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Congrats to everyone for finishing this part of the process. Now we get to... wait!
 

notdeadyet

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Good luck to everyone applying. I hope you all hear great things... and soon...
 

splik

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Submitted today as well!

Out of interest - how many programs did people apply to? And where?

Have irrational fear app is plagued by errors I failed to spot!
 
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digitlnoize

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Submitted today as well!

Out of interest - how many programs did people apply to? And where?
Think I may have applied to too few. Applied to 18: BU, Columbia, Dartmouth, Duke, Emory, Harvard Longwood, Hopkins, MGH/McLean, Mount Sinai, Northwestern, NYU, OHSU, Penn, Pitt, UC Denver, UMich, UW, Yale

Have irrational fear app is plagued by errors I failed to spot!

I also applied to around 20, but none of those uber-competitive places. My family and I want to be in a smaller town, so we applied mostly to small-medium sized cities with strong university programs.

I wouldn't worry too much. 18 is a pretty good number...I think.
 

atsai3

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Submitted today as well!

Out of interest - how many programs did people apply to? And where?
Think I may have applied to too few. Applied to 18: BU, Columbia, Dartmouth, Duke, Emory, Harvard Longwood, Hopkins, MGH/McLean, Mount Sinai, Northwestern, NYU, OHSU, Penn, Pitt, UC Denver, UMich, UW, Yale

Have irrational fear app is plagued by errors I failed to spot!

Assuming that your application is in line with the caliber of resident that would be accepted at these programs, 18 should be fine.
 

psych

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This is a tangent but did anyone else take a look at "Charting Outcomes in the Match, 2011?" I was surprised to see that the avg step 1 score actually decreased (compared to 2009). Since there is so much talk about how psych may be getting more competitive, I expected it to go up...
http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf
 
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carlosc1dbz

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I submitted my application today a few minutes after the application system was open for us. I wonder what place in line I am? Regardless, I have initially applied to 17 programs. I too am worried that it might not be enough programs, but lets see how it goes. I really want a specific area, which happens to be the Southern California, LA area. Good luck to all of you.
 

digitlnoize

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Tomorrow or next Tuesday.

Apparently, I have a friend applying to FM who got one TODAY :eek:

Edit: He has 3, but they're from DO FM programs that he applied to when he sent out his MD invites yesterday. Still, that's very quick to hear back.

Looking at last years' interview invite thread, the earliest ones were on 9/3, with many more on 9/7 and the bulk coming in late Sept, early Oct.
 
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NYCDO1

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a lot of programs still haven't uploaded mine even! so i prob wont be getting anything tomorrow
 

LEdaddy

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Submitted today as well!

Out of interest - how many programs did people apply to? And where?
Think I may have applied to too few. Applied to 18: BU, Columbia, Dartmouth, Duke, Emory, Harvard Longwood, Hopkins, MGH/McLean, Mount Sinai, Northwestern, NYU, OHSU, Penn, Pitt, UC Denver, UMich, UW, Yale

Have irrational fear app is plagued by errors I failed to spot!

I hope 18 isn't too few because I only applied to 15.

I understand the "irrational fear" you described. Now I'm obsessing about all of the things that are not uploaded yet (some of my LORs, my USMLE transcript, my regular transcript).
 

atsai3

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I hope 18 isn't too few because I only applied to 15.

It's not the number of applications you should be targeting: it's the number of interviews. The rule of thumb I was taught was that you should go on about 10 interviews and rank all of them. (If you don't intend on ranking a program, then there's no point in spending the money and time to interview there.)

The rule of thumb assumes an average applicant applying to programs within her reasonable reach. Your student dean should be giving you advice on what 'within reasonable reach' means to you as an individual applicant. One of my friends from medical school applied to only two residencies: UCSF and MGH/MacLean. But she could do that because she was a stellar applicant with both deans (not chairs -- deans) begging her to rank their institution #1. (The rest of us had to make do with sending out 10-20 applications.) If your student dean is not helping you come up with a realistic list, then she is not doing her job. If you are a below-average applicant, then you will need to downgrade your expectations and aim for 10 interviews at less competitive programs. That is not to say that upgrades don't occur. It would be rare for a student from Lake Erie COM to match to MGH/MacLean or UCSF, but certainly it could happen (eg., I know two graduates of hyper-competitive psych residencies who graduated from allopathic schools but passed Step 1 with only 1-2 points of breathing room. Now, being graduates, they laugh off their low board scores, but anyone who hears the story is amazed at how they ended up at their respective residencies). But if you are trying to roll the dice on an upgrade, then you will need to apply to more programs (20, 30, 40... etc, depends on how the program you are applying to will perceive your application and your institution).
 

peppy

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Submitted today as well!

Out of interest - how many programs did people apply to? And where?
Think I may have applied to too few. Applied to 18: BU, Columbia, Dartmouth, Duke, Emory, Harvard Longwood, Hopkins, MGH/McLean, Mount Sinai, Northwestern, NYU, OHSU, Penn, Pitt, UC Denver, UMich, UW, Yale

Have irrational fear app is plagued by errors I failed to spot!

I don't know what your stats are, but for an average applicant with average board scores, yeah, I think it would be worthwhile to throw in a few more mid-range uprograms in there. Your choices as it stands now are all relatively competitive places where being matched is definitely not a given even if they do interview you.
Also, one of those places has a REPUTATION (I won't specify which one here because I don't want to offend people, plus I cannot confirm it's true since I never went there - just the word on the street) as having a rather negative atmosphere, so I would suggest adding more programs just to give yourself more options if you end up not liking the feel you get from a program on interview day. Sometimes you end up liking programs more or less than you expected to after the interview day.

The cost of applying to a few more places is worth the benefit of more options later, in my view!
 
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Doctor Bagel

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Submitted today as well!

Out of interest - how many programs did people apply to? And where?
Think I may have applied to too few. Applied to 18: BU, Columbia, Dartmouth, Duke, Emory, Harvard Longwood, Hopkins, MGH/McLean, Mount Sinai, Northwestern, NYU, OHSU, Penn, Pitt, UC Denver, UMich, UW, Yale

Have irrational fear app is plagued by errors I failed to spot!

I couldn't bear to look at my personal statement after I submitted it based on the fear that I had some last typo I hadn't caught.

I think 18 is reasonable. This is the time when overapplying is easy. 18 apps is fine, but 18 interviews might be hard to do. As for your list, I'm assuming you're a competitive applicant and know what you're doing. :) Come to think of it, though, I'd add Brown. Applicants tend to really like it there.
 

Doctor Bagel

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I don't know what your stats are, but for an average applicant with average board scores, yeah, I think it would be worthwhile to throw in a few more mid-range uprograms in there. Your choices as it stands now are all relatively competitive places where being matched is definitely not a given even if they do interview you.
Also, one of those places has a REPUTATION (I won't specify which one here because I don't want to offend people, plus I cannot confirm it's true since I never went there - just the word on the street) as having a rather negative atmosphere, so I would suggest adding more programs just to give yourself more options if you end up not liking the feel you get from a program on interview day. Sometimes you end up liking programs more or less than you expected to after the interview day.

The cost of applying to a few more places is worth the benefit of more options later, in my view!

Now you're making me fear that this place with a reputation is my program, which I think I created by posting here too much. :oops: Come to think of it, though, there is another program on that list with that reputation.
 

peppy

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Now you're making me fear that this place with a reputation is my program, which I think I created by posting here too much. :oops: Come to think of it, though, there is another program on that list with that reputation.

If it makes you feel better, I am thinking of a different program. :)
My impression that it doesn't have a good atmosphere was formed from:
-My own interview day there, where several residents mostly just talked about how cool the city the program is located in is but didn't have much positive to say about the program itself (one resident described interacting with the PD at a case conference in a "Wow I learned so much" way but reading between the lines it sounded like the PD tends to be pretty harsh).
-Attending a resident dinner ELSEWHERE where the topic of where else people applied to came up and several residents talked about this program with "Yeah, that's the program where they hate the PD"
-Seeing posts from someone who wasn't you :) on this forum about constantly pushing the duty hour boundaries at this program.

I don't think it's important to name the program because I've seen how that can be very controversial on this forum, plus different people will react differently to the same program.
I mostly just made that comment with the goal of encouraging applicants to apply broadly and approach these programs with a skeptical view.
Meet as many residents as you can and pay close attention to what they say between the lines. It's very rare that a resident will spell it out with "Don't come here" since nobody wants to get in trouble for scaring off applicants, but pay attention to how happy they seem, what they say and what they leave out.
You also definitely shouldn't assume that a program that is "prestigious" is necessarily the best at educating its residents or treating its residents well.
Sometimes top programs treat their resident worse because they know that people are desperate to be in the program.
 

Doctor Bagel

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If it makes you feel better, I am thinking of a different program. :)
My impression that it doesn't have a good atmosphere was formed from:
-My own interview day there, where several residents mostly just talked about how cool the city the program is located in is but didn't have much positive to say about the program itself (one resident described interacting with the PD at a case conference in a "Wow I learned so much" way but reading between the lines it sounded like the PD tends to be pretty harsh).
-Attending a resident dinner ELSEWHERE where the topic of where else people applied to came up and several residents talked about this program with "Yeah, that's the program where they hate the PD"
-Seeing posts from someone who wasn't you :) on this forum about constantly pushing the duty hour boundaries at this program.

I don't think it's important to name the program because I've seen how that can be very controversial on this forum, plus different people will react differently to the same program.
I mostly just made that comment with the goal of encouraging applicants to apply broadly and approach these programs with a skeptical view.
Meet as many residents as you can and pay close attention to what they say between the lines. It's very rare that a resident will spell it out with "Don't come here" since nobody wants to get in trouble for scaring off applicants, but pay attention to how happy they seem, what they say and what they leave out.
You also definitely shouldn't assume that a program that is "prestigious" is necessarily the best at educating its residents or treating its residents well.
Sometimes top programs treat their resident worse because they know that people are desperate to be in the program.

I think we're probably thinking about the same program. I've talked to people who are happy at that program and met some people when I interviewed there who really didn't seem too happy. I guess it's good to think about who you are as a person and figure out what environment you'll do the best in. The program where you'll learn the most is pretty individual, too.

The sad thing is we learn all this stuff after we're in training instead of before.
 

notdeadyet

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Think I may have applied to too few. Applied to 18
IRegardless, I have initially applied to 17 programs. I too am worried that it might not be enough programs, but lets see how it goes.
I hope 18 isn't too few because I only applied to 15.

For all of the folks applying to massive amounts of programs, it's worthwhile reading Charting Outcomes for the Match, for which the 2011 Match was recently released. psych was kind enough to provide a link. http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

A few reassuring tidbits:
  • In last year's match, every U.S. senior who applied to 11 or more programs matched somewhere. Of those ranking 8 or more programs, all but 3 applicants matched. Overall, 95.8% matched.
  • In last year's match, of every independent applicant, everyone who ranked 12 or more programs matched, with the exception of 11 applicants, all of whom ranked 16 or more.
  • Overall, psych was actually less competitive in 2011 than in 2009 (the last match statistics) with a lower average Step 1 score.

Apply broadly and you will very, very likely find a home you're happy with. You don't likely need to go on as many interviews as you think and a great argument can be made that you are better off attending fewer interviews and spend more time preparing for them and putting your best foot forward.

Best of luck to everyone with the process...
 

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In last year's match, every U.S. senior who applied to 11 or more programs matched somewhere. Of those ranking 8 or more programs, all but 3 applicants matched. Overall, 95.8% matched.

:eek:! Wow, you would think somebody out there would have been overconfident with a top-heavy list and failed to match! Really interesting stuff, thanks notdeadyet and everybody else for the advice.
 

notdeadyet

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:eek:! Wow, you would think somebody out there would have been overconfident with a top-heavy list and failed to match!
No doubt. If I remember correctly, that's what happened in 2009, when everyone with >11 ranks matched except for some poor bastahd who probably ranked 40.

Charting Outcomes is one of the only really authoritative data sources for competitiveness of the specialties. It's worth looking into it to see how important (and unimportant) parts of your application might be. The Psych section's only a few pages of data tables and charts. It's worth a read just for piece of mind.
 

notdeadyet

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This is a tangent but did anyone else take a look at "Charting Outcomes in the Match, 2011?" I was surprised to see that the avg step 1 score actually decreased (compared to 2009).
Not to brag or anything, but I should take responsibility for personally having a pretty significant impact on that drop.

Thanks for posting this, by the way, psych. I had no idea that they came out with the 2011 Match.
 

digitlnoize

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No doubt. If I remember correctly, that's what happened in 2009, when everyone with >11 ranks matched except for some poor bastahd who probably ranked 40.

Charting Outcomes is one of the only really authoritative data sources for competitiveness of the specialties. It's worth looking into it to see how important (and unimportant) parts of your application might be. The Psych section's only a few pages of data tables and charts. It's worth a read just for piece of mind.

I love Charting Outcomes! I do wonder about the >16 ranks though...

From what I understand about the match algorithm, it does not hurt you to apply to more places. So why does it seem like people who ranked more places don't match as well? Is it because you must be desperate to rank that many places? Or is there something I'm missing?

Oh, and I guess no one heard anything today...A friend got an MD Path invite today. That's all I've heard. Too early still..."the waiting is the hardest part."
 
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splik

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I love Charting Outcomes! I do wonder about the >16 ranks though...

From what I understand about the match algorithm, it does not hurt you to apply to more places. So why does it seem like people who ranked more places don't match as well? Is it because you must be desperate to rank that many places? Or is there something I'm missing?

I agree with you I suspect that those who ranked more than 16 were likely to be poorer applicants who were advised to rank as many programs. It is also possible that if you interview at too many places your performance suffers as a result.

If you look at the graph for programs ranked it shows that the probability does increase the more programs you rank although for US MD applicants it seems to plateau after about 10.
 

digitlnoize

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I agree with you I suspect that those who ranked more than 16 were likely to be poorer applicants who were advised to rank as many programs. It is also possible that if you interview at too many places your performance suffers as a result.

If you look at the graph for programs ranked it shows that the probability does increase the more programs you rank although for US MD applicants it seems to plateau after about 10.

I'd also like to say that I am tired of DO's being lumped into "Independent Applicants" with the FMG's. Seriously NRMP, how hard would it be to have 3 categories: MD's, DO's, FMGs.

It's very hard to extrapolate the real data that would apply to me from these graphs. I have no idea if the FMGs are bringing the Independent category up or down or what. I'd just like some actual data. Thanks. Rant over.
 

Daedra22

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I'd also like to say that I am tired of DO's being lumped into "Independent Applicants" with the FMG's. Seriously NRMP, how hard would it be to have 3 categories: MD's, DO's, FMGs.

It's very hard to extrapolate the real data that would apply to me from these graphs. I have no idea if the FMGs are bringing the Independent category up or down or what. I'd just like some actual data. Thanks. Rant over.

As a fellow DO student I totally agree; it makes it very hard to interpret the data for my purposes.

Also, good luck everybody. Be interesting to see where everyone ends up :)
 

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Good luck everyone. Regarding ranking, I don't think it's a show of weakness to apply to 16+ programs. I ranked 18 programs mainly because I have no way of knowing the personalities of each residency and consider myself a strong applicant. I'd rather see more than settle for a bad fit.

Exciting times!
 
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I always wonder why someone would not match in psych. shouldn't psych applicants receive love from their home institutions? At least that's what I gather from my attendings.
 

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I always wonder why someone would not match in psych. shouldn't psych applicants receive love from their home institutions? At least that's what I gather from my attendings.

I have been told by several professors at my school that they really like it when our med students come back for psych residency and that they are confident I would match here if I want. I expect that is similar in most places. I imagine some people are just bad to work with though (bad attitude, irresponsible, whatever) and no one knows it better than their home institution! Also some probably want to go elsewhere and don't apply, and there are always the 'wildcard' inexplicable adcom decisions that seem to make no sense.
 

atsai3

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I always wonder why someone would not match in psych. shouldn't psych applicants receive love from their home institutions? At least that's what I gather from my attendings.

Most letters of recommendation are positive, and residency programs do not know whether a given letter-writer has a high set point or a low set point. Many residency programs like to take their own medical students because they can get a frank evaluation from a faculty member who is known to them and who has a known set point.

To a certain extent, many programs are simply looking for applicants who meet a minimum threshold of quality. Once a student is judged to exceed that minimum threshold, they are really just looking for people who won't cause trouble for the program (i.e., won't fail out, won't decompensate, won't drop out, will get along with classmates). It's very difficult to gauge those indicators based on letters alone. Taking a student from one's own institution yields a higher probability of getting a true longitudinal assessment of whether or not that student is going to be a problem. Often that "this student is a known quantity" factor will give a student the edge at his home program, over a comparable but perhaps slightly better applicant from another institution.

If a residency program doesn't take a student from their own medical school, it likely means that there is some sort of red flag known to the program (but which is not described in any of the letters). Alternatively, it could mean that there were simply too many applicants from that school. For example, several years ago psychiatry was exceedingly popular among UCSF medical students, and some 30-40 students applied. For diversity's sake -- speaking purely in numerical terms -- no way could the residency program accommodate all of those students, and so that year there were actually some UCSF medical students who did not get an interview at UCSF psychiatry.
 

digitlnoize

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I always wonder why someone would not match in psych. shouldn't psych applicants receive love from their home institutions? At least that's what I gather from my attendings.

Not all of us have "home institutions". I guess most of the MD students have psych programs at their "home" hospitals, but I'm not 100% sure all of them do. Some people's home program might suck, so they might skip it for one reason or another too.

There is one DO psych residency associated with my school, but it's in a pretty undesirable location for me, and I don't want to deal with the whole DO residency thing if I don't have to. I want to do child and there's like 2 DO child fellowships in the country. Lower pay, questionable quality, they don't always follow the ACGME rules I hear...no thanks. I'll take my chances in the Allo match...now, if I don't match, that's another story...they'd probably see me in the DO match next year...but I think that's pretty unlikely.
 

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Any opinion on whether I have applied to enough programs - 40 in total, with a good mix of some competitive ones (Harvard Longwood, Cornell), some that are in between (Wake Forest, Tufts) and a few which I hope will be easier to get into (St Lukes, SUNY Downstate, Allegheny). I'm an FMG with a month of experience in the UK, 99 for Step 2, 92 for Step 1, and a first time pass on CS. I also have three publications, with another paper under review, a few conference presentations and a couple of research awards... Should I be adding more programs, or do people consider that this will be okay for the moment?

Good luck to everyone!
 

digitlnoize

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Any opinion on whether I have applied to enough programs - 40 in total, with a good mix of some competitive ones (Harvard Longwood, Cornell), some that are in between (Wake Forest, Tufts) and a few which I hope will be easier to get into (St Lukes, SUNY Downstate, Allegheny). I'm an FMG with a month of experience in the UK, 99 for Step 2, 92 for Step 1, and a first time pass on CS. I also have three publications, with another paper under review, a few conference presentations and a couple of research awards... Should I be adding more programs, or do people consider that this will be okay for the moment?

Good luck to everyone!

I would think that you're fine. THose seem to be good stats. I assume your clerkship grades are very good, as are your media school basic science grades. If you have good letters and good PS, you should be good to go, and my bet would be that you'd get in somewhere.

As far as your list, did you check the hospitals' websites for lots of FMGs as current residents? Did apply to any midwest programs (some of which is very good and less competitive)?

Anyways, just my opinions, but I'm applying to, so don't really know what I'm talking about.
 

notdeadyet

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I'd also like to say that I am tired of DO's being lumped into "Independent Applicants" with the FMG's.
Having the data sliced and diced would be nice, but at the end of the day, Charting Outcomes analyzes the allopathic Match. I can see their point of showing the home team stats and then The Others.
Seriously NRMP, how hard would it be to have 3 categories: MD's, DO's, FMGs.
Well, that's just taking snobbery down a small step, no? Then you have the FMG's saying, "hey, don't lump us in with the IMG's!" Then you have the Caribbean IMG's saying, "Hey, don't lump us in with those folks not going to the Caribbean!" Then of course there are the Big Four (or Big Five) Caribbean schools who are so much different in placement rates, etc. Tough to draw the line.

If it makes you feel any better, lots of allopathic applicants are lumped in with Independent's too. Folks who apply not directly after medical school (d/t follow-on degrees and research) are also in your club.
 

digitlnoize

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Having the data sliced and diced would be nice, but at the end of the day, Charting Outcomes analyzes the allopathic Match. I can see their point of showing the home team stats and then The Others.

Well, that's just taking snobbery down a small step, no? Then you have the FMG's saying, "hey, don't lump us in with the IMG's!" Then you have the Caribbean IMG's saying, "Hey, don't lump us in with those folks not going to the Caribbean!" Then of course there are the Big Four (or Big Five) Caribbean schools who are so much different in placement rates, etc. Tough to draw the line.

If it makes you feel any better, lots of allopathic applicants are lumped in with Independent's too. Folks who apply not directly after medical school (d/t follow-on degrees and research) are also in your club.

I know, it's a slippery slope. Just a dream...real, useable data. I'd like to point out that the "independent" applicants pay the NBME's fees just like everyone else does, and they'd be hurting without our $$$. Maybe they could throw us this one bone. It might make their lives easier by allowing people to be better judges of their own competitiveness. I know, it's a pipe dream...
 

SmallBird

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Did apply to any midwest programs (some of which is very good and less competitive)?

Anyways, just my opinions, but I'm applying to, so don't really know what I'm talking about.

I am thankful for your opinion - I guess other than the match stats, its about getting a "Feel" for these things, so the more opinions the better.

In the mid-west: yes, I have applied there, although not very broadly. I have applied in Iowa, Ohio and Wisconsin. Decided to leave out Chicago programs in the end - the process was just getting too expensive, and they don't seem very FMG friendly.
 

Daedra22

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Having the data sliced and diced would be nice, but at the end of the day, Charting Outcomes analyzes the allopathic Match. I can see their point of showing the home team stats and then The Others.

Well, that's just taking snobbery down a small step, no? Then you have the FMG's saying, "hey, don't lump us in with the IMG's!" Then you have the Caribbean IMG's saying, "Hey, don't lump us in with those folks not going to the Caribbean!" Then of course there are the Big Four (or Big Five) Caribbean schools who are so much different in placement rates, etc. Tough to draw the line.

If it makes you feel any better, lots of allopathic applicants are lumped in with Independent's too. Folks who apply not directly after medical school (d/t follow-on degrees and research) are also in your club.

I can understand where you're coming from, but I suppose I am biased. I feel like the data would be extremely easy to separate, seeing as it is already in a database. I think it's silly that they specifically choose not to do that.

Of course, it seems like the AOA could also produce some data about how osteopathic students do in the allopathic match. I assume the schools have access to the scores and match data, so again aggregating it shouldn't be a huge problem. Another "pipe dream" for you.
 
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I don't know what your stats are, but for an average applicant with average board scores, yeah, I think it would be worthwhile to throw in a few more mid-range uprograms in there. Your choices as it stands now are all relatively competitive places where being matched is definitely not a given even if they do interview you.
Also, one of those places has a REPUTATION (I won't specify which one here because I don't want to offend people, plus I cannot confirm it's true since I never went there - just the word on the street) as having a rather negative atmosphere, so I would suggest adding more programs just to give yourself more options if you end up not liking the feel you get from a program on interview day. Sometimes you end up liking programs more or less than you expected to after the interview day.

The cost of applying to a few more places is worth the benefit of more options later, in my view!

Just wondering, what's considered mid-range?
My list is very similar to the above poster's except I also have: CCF, St Luke's Rosevelt, SUNY Brooklyn, Maimonides, Mayo, Southshore, and Vermont.
 

peppy

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Just wondering, what's considered mid-range?
My list is very similar to the above poster's except I also have: CCF, St Luke's Rosevelt, SUNY Brooklyn, Maimonides, Mayo, Southshore, and Vermont.

By mid-range I just mean places that offer good training but don't have the "prestige"/reputation of a place like Mayo or Harvard. There are a lot of places that would fit that description so if you wanted to get people's opinions about that it might be worth starting a separate thread.
A good rule of thumb is that places that are in very desirable locations (places like Boston, California, many of the NYC programs, etc.) or places that have high US News Rankings (or that someone outside of medicine would recognize as a "good" hospital) will be harder to get into than places in the midwest or south or places that just don't have the "name recognition". You can also get a sense of how competitive a program is from looking at where their residents went to med school. I wouldn't make my rank list completely full of programs that mostly get med students from, say, Ivy league schools.
 

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Good luck to everyone. Last year's thread of interview reviews was very useful, although there were a few schools I wish I knew more about (UNLV, UTSA, etc.) I hope to see some good responses this year too.
 
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