2012 APPIC Internship Application Thread

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Although we are not APA accredited, one student completed a VA internship and two students completed a Federal Prison internship. Every year we have three or four students who are Matched to APA accredited internship and the remaining students complete non APA accredited internships or APPIC approved internships. I believe the problem for many students in APA accredited programs is the requirement of completing an APA accredited internship. The student's program requires this, not APA, so APA is not at fault of the internship shortage for these students. I believe the petition or the protest should be directed to each of the student's programs for requiring APA accredited internships as neither APA or most State licensure law require an APA accredited internship.

Funny. I thought you were done posting here. 🙄

Anyhoot, would you mind sharing which VA and BOP sites these were? As far as I understand VAs require interns, fellows, and staff psychologists to have completed accredited training. And if you can't back up your claims, then please cease posting misinformation on this forum.
 
Funny. I thought you were done posting here. 🙄

Anyhoot, would you mind sharing which VA and BOP sites these were? As far as I understand VAs require interns, fellows, and staff psychologists to have completed accredited training. And if you can't back up your claims, then please cease posting misinformation on this forum.

IF WE JUST START IGNORING HIS POSTS, HE WILL CEASE POSTING. THIS PERSON IS NOT A GRADUATE STUDENT!

By the way, internship programs that are sanctioned by VHA Central Office require (REQUIRE) an APA accredited program. There are no unsactioned VA predoctoral internships and NO EXCEPTIONS TO THIS. This persons' lies effect the integrity of information posted for others on this board. Moderators, please remove this person from the forum. If moderators wont, then we need to stop responding to him. Although its hard when you have to clean up his messes all the time. Hence, I think he should be booted.
 
If sites are accepting these "professional school applicants" then can you really call us "not qualified"?? Why would you be interested in a site that is accepting an unqualified clinician???



I agree that with the limited spots available for internships there will be good people that will not match whether they are from university or FSPS. I come from a professional school and despite people's resentment towards FSPS, we are still at a disadvantage against students from university school because in fact, we come from professional schools. The same way people In this forum have bias that's how it is in the real world as well.

I remember feeling very nervous in one of my interviews because I was competing against students from UCLA, USC etc. and I just come from a lowly professional school. I thought I was a shoo in for that site bec of my experience and background but after meeting people during interviews, everyone is great (well there are some flukes) and I did not feel as confident anymore.

Not all students from FSPS are less qualified. I actually take offense to that because I think I can be as qualified as someone from a university.

Maybe the problem also lies with the university programs who train students heavily in research but not enough clinical experience. Research is great and I do research as well but most APA programs unless specialty programs, likes to know that a student have enough experience in the field. I am not generalizing here. I'm just presenting another issue that is rarely discussed here but I think is salient in this outrage of students from university based programs not matching. Really there just isn't enough programs out there that might cater to students of this caliber. I'm not saying this is only the problem but it sure adds to the whole process.

I'm not trying to blame the students here. I'm actually pointing out a systemic problem. And all our internship woes will not go away without changing the system. Unfortunately that will take time.
 
Good morning colleagues!



YES! There should be caps on both end of the system - applicants and internships alike. I don't see why it is wrong for sites to be able to choose who can or cannot be considered for their positions; above someone mentioned Ed.D. students applying to a VA internship for which they were absolutely not wanted. Why not prohibit this?

The situation is like an economy where there is a good in short supply and there is a surplus of commodities to be exchange for acquisition of this good. Some people holding the goods want dollars for their good, and others want cheeseburgers for their good. We've got people trying to give over their cheeseburgers to sites that want dollars and the sites just keep taking those cheeseburgers even though it does nobody any good.

While the supply and demand issues are certainly a major (primary?) factor in the imabalance- at least the supply side of the equation- there are larger issues with the model of clinical training. I really am surprised at the lack of focus about how the current applied psychology graduate training model requires that responsibility for a major portion of the training be passed off to an entity outside the university/school, with different missions, philosophies, and (imho, most importantly) different contingencies. Where is the outrage amongst graduate faculty who do everything they can to adhere to the mission and philosophy of the university in preparing their students to advance, only to have said students blocked at the internship stage? I really don't buy the whole "they don't care 'cause if we don't match it just means another year of tuition for us" argument. Though that may be the case in some FSPS (though I doubt it- it really is bad business model), there are enough solid university based doctoral programs where the students are being negatively affected. I strongly support the petition to APA, as they are a key player in the whole thing (mainly, I believe, in their support- or lack of limiting- the growth of new, non-uni based programs with huge cohorts), but I think the DCTs, faculties, and ultimately universities are complicit in not providing a substantial portion of their student a reasonable means of completing the degree.

As long as the current system remains in place, I agree with the above posts supporting APA accreditation of internship sites. There needs to be minimum standards. I would love to have interns at my current site. While we have been a practicum site for the local university Ph.D. program, we would not be able to meet the APA standards internship (which are almost identical to our state licensing requirements for pre-doc internship). The APA standards are reasonable (even if the costs to my agency of meeting them aren't). It is not APA's responsibility to lower their standards so I could have interns that meet my needs, though I couldn't meet theirs.
 
By the way, internship programs that are sanctioned by VHA Central Office require (REQUIRE) an APA accredited program. There are no unsactioned VA predoctoral internships and NO EXCEPTIONS TO THIS.
I wanted to confirm this as well. I had received an email regarding the Orlando VA which is not yet APA-accredited saying that they have openings in Phase II. I thought perhaps (giving a smidge benefit of the doubt, although I'm not sure why) that a new, not yet APA-accredited program may accept non-APA students. But nope, even this non-APA-accredited VA says this: "Must have completed at least three years of graduate course work in an APA-accredited clinical or counseling psychology training program."
I do truly wonder why a non-graduate student would bother posting on here under the facade of being a grad student. People have too much time on their hands.
 
If sites are accepting these "professional school applicants" then can you really call us "not qualified"?? Why would you be interested in a site that is accepting an unqualified clinician???

I think you missed my point. That's exactly what I mean, students from FSPS can be as qualified as someone from a university based program. And urging others not to generalize and put all blame to FSPS and the internship imbalance.
 
While the supply and demand issues are certainly a major (primary?) factor in the imabalance- at least the supply side of the equation- there are larger issues with the model of clinical training. I really am surprised at the lack of focus about how the current applied psychology graduate training model requires that responsibility for a major portion of the training be passed off to an entity outside the university/school, with different missions, philosophies, and (imho, most importantly) different contingencies. Where is the outrage amongst graduate faculty who do everything they can to adhere to the mission and philosophy of the university in preparing their students to advance, only to have said students blocked at the internship stage? I really don't buy the whole "they don't care 'cause if we don't match it just means another year of tuition for us" argument. Though that may be the case in some FSPS (though I doubt it- it really is bad business model), there are enough solid university based doctoral programs where the students are being negatively affected. I strongly support the petition to APA, as they are a key player in the whole thing (mainly, I believe, in their support- or lack of limiting- the growth of new, non-uni based programs with huge cohorts), but I think the DCTs, faculties, and ultimately universities are complicit in not providing a substantial portion of their student a reasonable means of completing the degree.

As long as the current system remains in place, I agree with the above posts supporting APA accreditation of internship sites. There needs to be minimum standards. I would love to have interns at my current site. While we have been a practicum site for the local university Ph.D. program, we would not be able to meet the APA standards internship (which are almost identical to our state licensing requirements for pre-doc internship). The APA standards are reasonable (even if the costs to my agency of meeting them aren't). It is not APA's responsibility to lower their standards so I could have interns that meet my needs, though I couldn't meet theirs.

I totally agree that the structure of education of clinical psychologists is partly the issue here, but I think we see it slightly differently. IMO, universities and doctoral programs should be responsible for educating their students. Upon graduation and receipt of the degree, supervised clinical training should be the responsibility of organized training programs separate from the educational component with the goal of preparing trainees for licensure not completion of their degree. I can understand that state licensure laws complicate this issue and that real change would require simultaneously restructuring graduate education and state licensure laws. Part of the problem of our field is that we are incorrectly trying to follow the medical model of education and training.
 
I wanted to confirm this as well. I had received an email regarding the Orlando VA which is not yet APA-accredited saying that they have openings in Phase II. I thought perhaps (giving a smidge benefit of the doubt, although I'm not sure why) that a new, not yet APA-accredited program may accept non-APA students. But nope, even this non-APA-accredited VA says this: "Must have completed at least three years of graduate course work in an APA-accredited clinical or counseling psychology training program."
I do truly wonder why a non-graduate student would bother posting on here under the facade of being a grad student. People have too much time on their hands.

I don't know all of the details but her father or grandfather worked as an MD with the VA and she actually did her internship with the VA. I am not lying about this. I believe there were some situationally variables involved as the original person accepted had to remove themselves from doing the internship that year. The student at my school had not Matched and she lucked into the internship with the VA due to her connections and that a spot was opened up after the Match occured. Now this was 5 years ago when the Match was not as competitive.
 
If sites are accepting these "professional school applicants" then can you really call us "not qualified"?? Why would you be interested in a site that is accepting an unqualified clinician???

PsyD or PhD---professional schools or university based program has nothing to do with being qualified or not qualified. Doctoral standards and curriculum are similar between PsyD and PhD programs and people who believe that PsyD programs are diploma mills or equivalent to mail order diploma are mis-informed. It is biased and discrimination to imply that PsyD or FSPS applicants are not qualified and to generalize this as the reason for the shortage of internship sites is plain ignorance.
 
I totally agree that the structure of education of clinical psychologists is partly the issue here, but I think we see it slightly differently. IMO, universities and doctoral programs should be responsible for educating their students. Upon graduation and receipt of the degree, supervised clinical training should be the responsibility of organized training programs separate from the educational component with the goal of preparing trainees for licensure not completion of their degree.

Nope- we don't see it differently at all- I'd agree with removing the external internship from the degree program, getting rid of the whole international match system, and let GRADUATES, fresh Ph.D. in hand, find and compete for internships where they want to in the same manner, with the same opportunities for negotiation and back and forth, that there is in a job search.
 
In general, this seems to be the case, yes. I've heard stories from TDs and interns who've said that programs have been "blacklisted" based on negative experiences with prior trainees.

Heck, there are even instances in which sites won't seriously consider applicants from a particular advisor based on negative past experiences/interactions (or so I've heard).

This cuts both ways though....as there are sites that have had great success with certain programs and they often will welcome applicants from those programs in future years. This isn't a bad thing for good programs.

Those from APA programs cannot find their own internship and must go through the match. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my program's policy.

Pretty much all university programs require their students to go through the APPIC Match. Some programs (typically FSPS) may allow their students to not participate in the Match, but that is a discussion for another day. There are a handful offer captive internship sites, and most/all of them only take applicants from their own program. There were a few threads on here that talked about the programs, here is a more recent one.

Although as another poster mentioned, the extra fee doesn't seem to be dissuading many people. During my interview trail last year, I consistently heard from people who applied (or were actually told by their programs to apply) to upwards of 25-30 programs.

The "extra fee" is akin to adding a tax on cigarettes....the people most impacted by the purchase will (almost without exception) find a way to pay the additional cost. The additional cost isn't a deterent, it just means that the effected people will be further impacted.

You're of course welcome to your opinion, but I vehemently disagree. I believe that APA accreditation should be seen as it was originally intended--a minimum training standard to which ALL internships should be required to adhere.

100% agree. I've been banging this drum for 5+ years on here...APA-acred. was established to define the MINIMUM standards for competency. I believe it is unethical to have any other training standard that does not meet or exceed APA-acred. The problem is that the cost to get APA-acred. is often prohibitive, particularly for smaller training sites and/or unsubsidized training sites.

When individuals "create their own" internship and circumvent this accreditation, there's absolutely no way to objectively vouch for the quality of training they're receiving. Additionally, there's no centralized way to protect these interns from being taken advantage of and/or facilitate response to grievances. Essentially, there's no enforced accountability on the part of the internship.

This just opened the floodgates by circumventing the minimal quality control that was left in the doctoral training process. I blame the CAPIC in particular for selfishly placing their state, students, and schools above the greater good of the profession. The market could have made some corrections, but now it is being artificially influenced by factors that further weaken quality control.
 
I don't know all of the details but her father or grandfather worked as an MD with the VA and she actually did her internship with the VA. I am not lying about this. I believe there were some situationally variables involved as the original person accepted had to remove themselves from doing the internship that year. The student at my school had not Matched and she lucked into the internship with the VA due to her connections and that a spot was opened up after the Match occured. Now this was 5 years ago when the Match was not as competitive.

The Match imbalance was already a serious problem 5 years ago. I believe the ratio of students not matching was closer to 20% than 25%, but in no way was it less competitive.
 
PsyD or PhD---professional schools or university based program has nothing to do with being qualified or not qualified. Doctoral standards and curriculum are similar between PsyD and PhD programs and people who believe that PsyD programs are diploma mills or equivalent to mail order diploma are mis-informed. It is biased and discrimination to imply that PsyD or FSPS applicants are not qualified and to generalize this as the reason for the shortage of internship sites is plain ignorance.

Unfortunately, not all training programs are created equal. While it's very true that a motivated individual can become qualified regardless of where they train, it's faulty to say that all training environments are equally-supportive of, and conducive to, success. This isn't an issue of Psy.D. vs. Ph.D.; it's an issue of a supportive and complete training environment vs. an unsupportive and inadequate one.

An earlier poster explicitly stated that he/she had to look into what would make them a competitive internship applicant on their own, as this was glossed over by their program. This poster also mentioned that many of the necessary experiences were not available through their program, and that this individual had to seek the training out on his/her own. IMO, this is NOT something that should be left up to the applicant. As has often been said, you don't know what you don't know; it shouldn't be the trainee's burden to have to figure out all the types of training they'll need to receive to be a competent clinician...that's the job of the program and its faculty members. These are the types of programs that need to either be made to meet the needs of their students, or be closed down outright.
 
I don't know all of the details but her father or grandfather worked as an MD with the VA and she actually did her internship with the VA. I am not lying about this. I believe there were some situationally variables involved as the original person accepted had to remove themselves from doing the internship that year. The student at my school had not Matched and she lucked into the internship with the VA due to her connections and that a spot was opened up after the Match occured. Now this was 5 years ago when the Match was not as competitive.

Um, where have you been?

In 2007 (I'm just going back 5 years in general at this point), the APA was reporting on the internship crisis and imbalance over the previous 5 years, including 2007. The number of students (per the Nov 2007 APA Education Directorate report) indicated that 25% of students did not match in 2007.

I suppose that's not competitive.

Wait . . . Where are we again for the national match rate at the present time?

I smell something fishy. 🙄
 
Individuals cannot even be WOC'ed (without compensation employees in the VA) and credentialed to see patients without an APA program (and an APA internship if postdoc and beyond level). So what you're claiming is patently false. Period. The end.

This. There is ZERO flexibility when it comes to the VA and their hiring policies. Even if the head of Behavioral Health wanted to hire someone, they would not be allowed to due to VA regulations. VA Central Office would not allow it, the local HR dept. wouldn't allow it, and the person would never be cleared to even get a login for CPRS because it requires clearance from the prior offices/dept.

Can well all agree that 4410 is trolling and just ignore him/her?
 
The match rate is much, much worse when you make APA-accredited internships your target. 50-some % this year out of all applicants. Obviously connects to what others (T4C, JS) have said about APA accred being the MINIMUM.
 
The match rate is much, much worse when you make APA-accredited internships your target. 50-some % this year out of all applicants. Obviously connects to what others (T4C, JS) have said about APA accred being the MINIMUM.

Please cease interactijng with this poster. Everyone. Please.
 
Please cease interactijng with this poster. Everyone. Please.

Duly noted.

And just to beat a proverbially dead horse, as MC parent said, even the poor ~75% overall match rate sugarcoats things, given that only 53% of applicants this year had any shot at all of landing an APA-accredited spot.
 
Well, I didnt mean Mike Parent. :laugh: Lets just say he has no real name. Get it?...

Oh...I'm being scorned by the masses. Obviously, it was due to my inadequate training and my mail order degree from a diploma mill. Everyone just loves to whine and complain. So I should just voluntary give up my internship opportunity so I can complain like everyone else. Misery just loves company.🙄
 
mmmm, wine.

What do you all think are the percentages of students who don't want to practice clinically? One option could be for programs to offer an optional, although recommended, predoc internship for those who want to be licensed at some point but for those who don't, they can complete their degree without an internship. It might allow for a small munber to forgo the internship year. Limiting the number of applications seems like a great idea as well. During CAPIC last year, at least one applicant submitted to over 100 sites/tracks.

On a side note to Ergs question many pages ago regarding ethical questions for non paid internships. I have a few problems with the whole process starting from the school/program level. I am in a program that decides whether or not we are allowed to apply APPIC based on completely subjective criteria, which can vary from advisor to advisor. I was only allowed to apply for CAPIC which will also limit my postdoc options as well. Many of my "flags" were not flags last year when I prepared for internship, but I was assigned a different advisor this year and magically, I was deemed "unfit". In any event, there isn't much I can do but apply for CAPIC and wait for my Match day in a little over 4 days.

Sorry for any typos/errors, I have a sleeping toddler on my lap.
 
Anybody run into character limits on cover letters in the APPI? I'm getting an error while trying to upload my cover letters saying that there is an 8000 character limit. The instructions for this sections specifically say that there is no word limit...
 
Anybody run into character limits on cover letters in the APPI? I'm getting an error while trying to upload my cover letters saying that there is an 8000 character limit. The instructions for this sections specifically say that there is no word limit...

wow, that's a long cover letter; 3 pages at least right? I don't know if you want to have one that long.
 
wow, that's a long cover letter; 3 pages at least right? I don't know if you want to have one that long.

Don't really know what I've got to lose...I mean, I already didn't match in phase one. I say go for broke.

I took out some polite formal crap that's adds nothing so that the character count (without including spaces) is under 8000 characters and it still won't upload. So must be 8000 characters including spaces.

Must....control....fist of death....+pissed+
 
Part of the problem of our field is that we are incorrectly trying to follow the medical model of education and training.

Except that the medical model of education and training grants the degree PRIOR to intern/transitional year and residency. If that's what you meant by incorrectly, than I agree, as psychology is not following the model correctly. It is ludicrous that an internship must be completed somewhere outside of the school in order to receive the degree when all other conditions are met, especially in this climate.
 
Except that the medical model of education and training grants the degree PRIOR to intern/transitional year and residency. If that's what you meant by incorrectly, than I agree, as psychology is not following the model correctly. It is ludicrous that an internship must be completed somewhere outside of the school in order to receive the degree when all other conditions are met, especially in this climate.

We see things the same way!
 
Don't really know what I've got to lose...I mean, I already didn't match in phase one. I say go for broke.

I took out some polite formal crap that's adds nothing so that the character count (without including spaces) is under 8000 characters and it still won't upload. So must be 8000 characters including spaces.

Must....control....fist of death....+pissed+
Yeah, I'm sure spaces count as characters. I'd also suggest cutting that down... I think the APPIC internship guide says don't exceed 2 pages. I think it's better to have a succinct 1.5 pages and have them read it closely than a 3 page letter that they skim or discard for being too long.
 
Must not be characters plus spaces. I successfully uploaded on with 8,364 characters and spaces. If anyone else has experienced this or has any solutions, I'd be grateful to hear them.
 
Everyone in my program has to go thought the APPIC Match as well. However, the advantage is that if we don't Match then students are able to find their own site or even develop their own site. Some students who are not able to move due to family reasons are actually relieved when they do not Match as they are able to find their own local internship. This is in a major metropolitan city and very large State that has more than 2000 licensed psychologist. The APA or APPIC approved internships in this State are mostly filled by students from APA accredited programs from other States, so being a non APA accredited program our chances of Matching within our State is limited. Most all of us who Match is in other States. Some students did their internships in New York, Washington, Kansas, Missouri, Rhode Island, Minnesota, Florida, Indiana, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Arkansas, Louisiana, Arizona, California, Oregon, etc... and these all required relocation during their internship year of training.

Although we are not APA accredited, one student completed a VA internship and two students completed a Federal Prison internship. Every year we have three or four students who are Matched to APA accredited internship and the remaining students complete non APA accredited internships or APPIC approved internships. I believe the problem for many students in APA accredited programs is the requirement of completing an APA accredited internship. The student's program requires this, not APA, so APA is not at fault of the internship shortage for these students. I believe the petition or the protest should be directed to each of the student's programs for requiring APA accredited internships as neither APA or most State licensure law require an APA accredited internship.

For the love of god, can you please learn the plural form of psychologist?
 
All apps in 🙂 and I checked the page and says completed for all of them. Hope there's no more technical errors like in Phase 1.
 
All apps in 🙂 and I checked the page and says completed for all of them. Hope there's no more technical errors like in Phase 1.

Yay! Congratulations and good luck! :luck:

(Do you like Phase II better than Phase I so far? I really do.)
 
ERGH! I forgot about the whole "quotations sometimes looking like pound signs" issue! Well too late now, my own fault for not combing my application more carefully. Hopefully sites recall this issue from last round and excuse it... :bang:
 
Yay! Congratulations and good luck! :luck:

(Do you like Phase II better than Phase I so far? I really do.)

I like the timeframe, but I still obsessed over my application and making sure there were minimal error. I think my fears from phase 1 was the reason since I had so much trouble. But, they all say completed so I just hopeful that its good and wait for some interviews :xf:
 
Is someone willing to post when they hear from Phase II sites regarding interviews?
 
ERGH! I forgot about the whole "quotations sometimes looking like pound signs" issue! Well too late now, my own fault for not combing my application more carefully. Hopefully sites recall this issue from last round and excuse it... :bang:

It doesn't come out that way on the reviewer's side. Don't worry.🙂
 
For the love of god, can you please learn the plural form of psychologist?

Humm.....maybe I needed to go to one of the PsyD programs where you also obtain a theology degree, so my grammar will be God Like.:beat::beat:
 
I heard from one (APPIC member) site yesterday. The TD called to offer me a Skype interview (I let it go to voicemail). Based on my experience in Phase II last year, I expect any interview offers by/before next Wednesday. Some sites don't have a lot to review so they look at materials immediately and offer interviews to all applicants. Some sites have a ton to look at, so they set up a day/time to review applications and then get out the interview offers. Most interviews will occur late next week or early the week after. Again, just based on my experience and memories of what people posted here last year.

Good luck! :luck:
 
Is someone willing to post when they hear from Phase II sites regarding interviews?

Yes! 🙂

I forgot to say keep in mind that most sites won't contact you if they aren't interviewing you, so if you haven't heard from a site a week from now, they're probably not interviewing you.
 
Looking at last year's Phase II posts, I think Andrus sent out rejection emails the day after applications were due. I haven't heard anything from them yet, but maybe they're taking longer this time around, or maybe they won't even notify us of rejections at all.

Ugh... I just want to know something, anything right now.
 
Lets keep updates regarding interviews. I hope round two works well for everyone.
 
I heard from one (APPIC member) site yesterday. The TD called to offer me a Skype interview (I let it go to voicemail). Based on my experience in Phase II last year, I expect any interview offers by/before next Wednesday. Some sites don't have a lot to review so they look at materials immediately and offer interviews to all applicants. Some sites have a ton to look at, so they set up a day/time to review applications and then get out the interview offers. Most interviews will occur late next week or early the week after. Again, just based on my experience and memories of what people posted here last year.

Good luck! :luck:

Congrats! I know there is all that drama with your program, but hopefully this interview can work to your favor and your program can follow suit! Do you mind sharing what site?
 
Congrats! I know there is all that drama with your program, but hopefully this interview can work to your favor and your program can follow suit! Do you mind sharing what site?

Thanks! I PMed you. It's an APPIC member site in the Northeast.

I haven't heard back from the APA site that I applied to (and don't expect to hear back from, haha, it seems like such a stretch for multiple reasons) or the other APPIC member site yet.
 
I was just looking at the 2011 appic thread from last year only to find the site I WAS most excited about had several posts like the following:


"I heard back right away. That said, I requested a phone interview because I heard from 4 past interns and 1 faculty member that its an awful site. Apparently, last year, every intern had negative things to say about every rotation! (working 70+ hour weeks, no respect, etc) So, maybe i heard back because I had a special request? Just couldnt justify a flight and hotel for that site .... "
 
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