2013-2014 APPIC (internship) Phase II

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So instead we should lower the standards of training in order to let everyone get by? I am trying to think of any other profession, healthcare or otherwise where it would be appropriate to have a certain set of training requirements, but circumventing them for a different path that is not overseen by the governing body is still viewed as okay.

Maybe I just have a misunderstanding of the imbalance problem, but I dont see how either lowering standards or simply adding and allowing more positions would solve anything. It is unclear to me if there is the demand in the job market for as many more psychologists are there are people who want to be psychologists. While unfortunate, doesn't the match imbalance serve to ensure quality of training, rather than simply opening up new positions whether qualified or not?

Psychology already doesnt have the strongest reputation and I am curious what message it sends the world if there is such variability in training and lack of consistency of standards and requirements.
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Adding more positions probably won't solve anything. I would imagine that the offending programs would just admit more people and flood the Match even more.
 
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erg923 said:
I


I think this is drama talk, as no such thing has happened. People have pointed out the major limitations this choice causes, as well as how the continued existence of unaccredited traing programs undermines the status and quality if the profession. I don't think anyone is stupid or evil fir this choice. As much as I emphasize with the situation, I certainly can't support or approve of the choice either.
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Given the current circumstances, a portion of applicants have to take non-accredited sites; otherwise, a good number of us would be held up indefinitely waiting to match to an APA site. What exactly would you have those individuals do instead? Someone who takes a non-APA internship arrived at the choice knowledgeably and cautiously. Do you think it's helpful to remind them yet again, particularly after the internship has already been accepted, that you believe the choice to be substandard?
 
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Icculus8 said:
So instead we should lower the standards of training in order to let everyone get by? I am trying to think of any other profession, healthcare or otherwise where it would be appropriate to have a certain set of training requirements, but circumventing them for a different path that is not overseen by the governing body is still viewed as okay.

Maybe I just have a misunderstanding of the imbalance problem, but I dont see how either lowering standards or simply adding and allowing more positions would solve anything. It is unclear to me if there is the demand in the job market for as many more psychologists are there are people who want to be psychologists. While unfortunate, doesn't the match imbalance serve to ensure quality of training, rather than simply opening up new positions whether qualified or not?

Psychology already doesnt have the strongest reputation and I am curious what message it sends the world if there is such variability in training and lack of consistency of standards and requirements.
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I definitely don't propose lowering our standards, but I do not blame applicants for working within the confines of the current circumstances. It's certainly not about "letting everyone get by," but about an individual's choice to move on to begin a meaningful career after years of study. What we really need is more APA-accredited sites, or less applicants.
 
No one has to do anything. They can choose to a solid program that essentially assures that they will match. Or, they can take a year off and apply next year. As others have said, the point is not to make everyone happy, it's to make sure our field adheres to a minimum standard of training. We should be caring more about the quality of clinical training for our patients' sake than making sure that everyone who wants to be a "Doctor" becomes one.
 
If you don't apply to them, then, no, you don't have to attend them.
 
WisNeuro said:
No one has to do anything. They can choose to a solid program that essentially assures that they will match. Or, they can take a year off and apply next year. As others have said, the point is not to make everyone happy, it's to make sure our field adheres to a minimum standard of training. We should be caring more about the quality of clinical training for our patients' sake than making sure that everyone who wants to be a "Doctor" becomes one.
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I absolutely agree that match statistics should be considered when one chooses a doctoral program, and that one should apply in the following year after not matching. Nonetheless, those solutions are neither easy nor perfect. For example, several of us (myself included) did not match in Phase I of this year, despite having spent the year enriching our CVs with extra practicums and defended dissertations. Others are on their third year in the match. I think that it is a mistake to view one position as the one that makes the difference between good and poor quality training/patient care. I also believe that it is much easier to make judgments about how people should handle the process when one is not involved in it any longer.
 
WisNeuro said:
No one has to do anything. They can choose to a solid program that essentially assures that they will match. Or, they can take a year off and apply next year. As others have said, the point is not to make everyone happy, it's to make sure our field adheres to a minimum standard of training. We should be caring more about the quality of clinical training for our patients' sake than making sure that everyone who wants to be a "Doctor" becomes one.
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There are students from solid programs who don't match every single year. There were many of us in Phase II this year who go to programs with match rates nearing 100% (or in my case, at 100% for the past 10 years). When I didn't match in Phase I, my program made it clear that unfortunately, they would not be able to offer me funding next year (my 6th year). I live in a rural area with very few clinical opportunities, so had I not matched in Phase II, I would have had to uproot myself and my husband for a year while I tried again. If my program allowed us to take non-APA spots, it would have been a serious consideration for me to apply to the newer not-yet-APA VA spots because I would like to stay in that system for my career. It's not about making everyone happy - it's about seriously considering the consequences of one's decisions and taking calculated risks given that in any year, nearly 35% of applicants will not match to an APA-accredited site.
 
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I still stand by the assertion that the answer is not to lower the standards to make everyone happy. We're not here to pick apart the reason why any single person didn't match. I imagine the factors range from pure luck of the draw, to lack of experience, to interpersonal issues. If we accommodate everyone that merely desires it, we open up for more Argosy and Alliant's to flood our system with poorly trained clinicians and further devalue our profession. You have to draw a line somewhere with training standards.
 
JennyAnn4 said:
What exactly would you have those individuals do instead? ?
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They should consider legal action about potential misinformation provided by their school or the inability of a school to meet the required training obligations.
 
Nebraska Internship Consortium added five APA accredited spots. At times like this I wish I had child or family experience, as it looks like that is their primary focus from the website (sigh). Hoping some adult positions became available.
 
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psychrat said:
Nebraska Internship Consortium added five APA accredited spots. At times like this I wish I had child or family experience, as it looks like that is their primary focus from the website (sigh). Hoping some adult positions became available.
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That's nice of you to spread the word.

Psychrat, why not apply anyway and suggest in your cover letter that after thinking about it, child & family is EXACTLY what you are now looking for during internship year in order to make your training more complete and well-rounded?! Sure, working with preverbal children is the hardest (IMO) but who is to say that you are not skilled ENOUGH to handle the caseload of child and family clients, especially if you are a kick a** clinician otherwise and just had poor luck this application round (which is why your would consider them anyway). Plus they don't want you to know everything, trained in every area, and be perfect for internship, they want economy growth from you and you want it for yourself. Would this experience make you more competitive for post-doc/work after licensing? If you have no interest in working with children and families, then that's another story. But if you think about it and can be honest about this change of heart, perhaps you could say that this would be a great opportunity for both them and you (you need a position and they need to fill their spot with a competent skilled clinician).

Other factors may hinder you from applying that you didn't mention (location, etc.) but you don't get what you don't ask for, and you're just asking for consideration. Also, perhaps you could get one or two brand new rec letters saying you could potentially be great at work with family and children because you are so good one-on-one with adults and older adolescents (any emerging adults in your populations, ages 18-29?...they can be just like adolescents...and some chronic SMI can be similar treating young children).

Give it a try...PM me if you want me to edit this posting out after you read it so I don't spread a potential good (or unrealistic) idea. ;)
 
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Hi guys! Not sure if anyone is still checking in, but just wanted to share. I ended up applying for the CPA-accredited position that was listed in the post-match vacancy, and was offered the position today! I honestly can't believe it. From talking to the APPIC chair, taking a CPA versus APA internship should not affect my ability to get postdocs and jobs (unless I suddenly became interested in VAs). I just wanted to encourage you that if you're still unmatched and considering the few slots that do pop up through the post-match vacancies, it is possible to get one! Good luck everyone!
 
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Did anyone else get an invitation to interview at Pacific Psychology Clinic for Phase III?
 
anxietyisfun said:
Did anyone else get an invitation to interview at Pacific Psychology Clinic for Phase III?
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I received a rejection, which I was somewhat bothered by. I felt like it was a good match. The rejection said they had a lot of applicants, so had to narrow the pool down. I wonder if it is my hours that got be knocked out of the pool because I felt like it was a good match.
 
psychrat said:
I received a rejection, which I was somewhat bothered by. I felt like it was a good match. The rejection said they had a lot of applicants, so had to narrow the pool down. I wonder if it is my hours that got be knocked out of the pool because I felt like it was a good match.
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:( I'm sorry that sucks.
 
psychrat said:
I received a rejection, which I was somewhat bothered by. I felt like it was a good match. The rejection said they had a lot of applicants, so had to narrow the pool down. I wonder if it is my hours that got be knocked out of the pool because I felt like it was a good match.
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Weird, and I'm sorry to hear that! I thought it would just be like Phase II where you might just never hear from a place again if they didn't want you. "narrowing the pool down" seems like a crappy explanation.
 
I am guessing Phase III sites interview even less people than Phase II sites since they can really have their pick of whomever they like best. Just conjecture though. So hopefully if you got an interview, you have good odds, and if you didn't, it doesn't mean you're not a good candidate.
 
Hmmm I haven't heard anything, but would actually appreciate a rejection if that's the case. The whole "maybe we will, maybe we won't" contact you in Phase II was less than desirable.
 
AttachmentGal said:
Hi guys! Not sure if anyone is still checking in, but just wanted to share. I ended up applying for the CPA-accredited position that was listed in the post-match vacancy, and was offered the position today! I honestly can't believe it. From talking to the APPIC chair, taking a CPA versus APA internship should not affect my ability to get postdocs and jobs (unless I suddenly became interested in VAs). I just wanted to encourage you that if you're still unmatched and considering the few slots that do pop up through the post-match vacancies, it is possible to get one! Good luck everyone!
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So glad Attachment Gal!! Congratulations!
 
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psychrat said:
I received a rejection, which I was somewhat bothered by. I felt like it was a good match. The rejection said they had a lot of applicants, so had to narrow the pool down. I wonder if it is my hours that got be knocked out of the pool because I felt like it was a good match.
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That stinks, I'm so sorry to hear it. I think sites do tend to narrow down by particular variables, much as some graduate programs narrow down based on GRE scores, GPA, etc. But I agree with CheetahGirl about Nebraska Internship Consortium. You really don't have anything to lose by applying. Someone I know spent her training years with kids and then matched at an internship that centered around an adult inpatient unit. I asked how she was able to argue that she was a fit there, and she said it's all in how you frame it. For example, "My work with kids has made me flexible and creative in the way that I deliver therapy, and I believe this is a necessary skill in working with adults with severe and persistent mental illness."

Whatever you choose to do, good luck! I'm rooting for you. :)
 
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Just an fyi munroe meyer is doing impromptu interviews. they just called me. I felt flustered cause I wasnt prepared
 
psychtalk1274 said:
Just an fyi munroe meyer is doing impromptu interviews. they just called me. I felt flustered cause I wasnt prepared
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congrats. I didn't apply since I do not have child experience and felt that it would be too much of a stretch. Do you have child experience?
 
psychrat said:
congrats. I didn't apply since I do not have child experience and felt that it would be too much of a stretch. Do you have child experience?
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Yep, the majority of my clients were kids and or families. still apply, Its a vitae and coverletter. what do you have to lose? also, they have 5 spots.
 
psychtalk1274 said:
Yep, the majority of my clients were kids and or families. still apply, Its a vitae and coverletter. what do you have to lose? also, they have 5 spots.
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I am just afraid it will be obvious that I have no kid experience. Also, how rural is the area? I am not sure if it would make sense if I want to do postdoc in the larger city I am from.
 
psychtalk1274 said:
Just an fyi munroe meyer is doing impromptu interviews. they just called me. I felt flustered cause I wasnt prepared
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Congrats on the interview anyway! They must be stressed about filling all those spots. In phase II I actually made notecards about my answers to questions, including my fit with certain sites. Guess it's too late to suggest that that could be helpful? Maybe for others applying there.
 
I just carried the notecards around in my purse because one of the sites I interviewed at told me they were going to call me on a particular day, but they didn't promise a time.
 
AttachmentGal said:
I just carried the notecards around in my purse because one of the sites I interviewed at told me they were going to call me on a particular day, but they didn't promise a time.
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That is a great idea. If I go through this process again I am going to do that.


Has anybody else who applied there heard anything back? I interviewed but they never said if they would let me know or if its "I'll contact you if you got it" thing.
 
AttachmentGal said:
one of the sites I interviewed at told me they were going to call me on a particular day, but they didn't promise a time.
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Uh, what the French, toast?! Do they actually think that is professional? How hard is it to pencil in a tentative appointment?
 
Putting this out there again, has anybody else heard form Munroe-Meyer???
 
I didn't apply to Munroe-Meyer because I felt like I couldn't stretch my competency in quite so many directions at once. Like I didn't know anything about the disorders they specialize in, I've never worked or lived in a rural area, and I don't have much experience with children. (And on top of that, the experience I've had shows me that I'm NOT good with them.) The rural part wouldn't bother me all that much, but the rest would concern me. However, I can say that someone from my program has gone there and as far as I know, had a good experience!

I also recently had the delightful experience of discovering that I am the only person in a cohort of 24 not to have found a match. The only other remaining person got a spot in Phase III (a spot I interviewed for in Phase II - the one with the cat). That really didn't make me feel better.
 
psychtalk1274 said:
Putting this out there again, has anybody else heard form Munroe-Meyer???
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They told me last Friday that we'd hear back yes or no sometime this week. I know, I'm also freaking out. Too many rejections for one lifetime.
 
SmithPsy24 said:
I didn't apply to Munroe-Meyer because I felt like I couldn't stretch my competency in quite so many directions at once. Like I didn't know anything about the disorders they specialize in, I've never worked or lived in a rural area, and I don't have much experience with children. (And on top of that, the experience I've had shows me that I'm NOT good with them.) The rural part wouldn't bother me all that much, but the rest would concern me. However, I can say that someone from my program has gone there and as far as I know, had a good experience!

I also recently had the delightful experience of discovering that I am the only person in a cohort of 24 not to have found a match. The only other remaining person got a spot in Phase III (a spot I interviewed for in Phase II - the one with the cat). That really didn't make me feel better.
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SmithPsy24 said:
I didn't apply to Munroe-Meyer because I felt like I couldn't stretch my competency in quite so many directions at once. Like I didn't know anything about the disorders they specialize in, I've never worked or lived in a rural area, and I don't have much experience with children. (And on top of that, the experience I've had shows me that I'm NOT good with them.) The rural part wouldn't bother me all that much, but the rest would concern me. However, I can say that someone from my program has gone there and as far as I know, had a good experience!

I also recently had the delightful experience of discovering that I am the only person in a cohort of 24 not to have found a match. The only other remaining person got a spot in Phase III (a spot I interviewed for in Phase II - the one with the cat). That really didn't make me feel better.
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Im sorry. that sucks. i will write a more thoughtful response when im not on my phone. my phone hates this website
 
Aurora88 said:
Congrats! Looks like another rejection for me, though. :-(
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I'm so sorry! This process is absolutely horrendous. Remember it is a flaw in the system not with you. Take sometime this weekend for some self care.
 
By the way Munroe Meyer has only filled 3 out of the 5 spots so keep applying people!!!
 
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Nvm, psychtalk. Looks like I will be joining you at Munroe-Meyer! :)

Keep your heads up, guys. I didn't think people matched in phase III, but persistence pays off. The feedback I got was that not as many people apply towards the mid and end of the summer, so you have more chances. Best wishes to everyone.
 
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Aurora88 said:
Nvm, psychtalk. Looks like I will be joining you at Munroe-Meyer! :)

Keep your heads up, guys. I didn't think people matched in phase III, but persistence pays off. The feedback I got was that not as many people apply towards the mid and end of the summer, so you have more chances. Best wishes to everyone.
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congrats. I am hoping more adults spots become available. I did not apply to Munroe-Meyer because I have zero experience working with children and would not want to go from zero experience to working exclusively with them, although it would be nice to get SOME experience with them.
 
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Aurora88 said:
Nvm, psychtalk. Looks like I will be joining you at Munroe-Meyer! :)

Keep your heads up, guys. I didn't think people matched in phase III, but persistence pays off. The feedback I got was that not as many people apply towards the mid and end of the summer, so you have more chances. Best wishes to everyone.
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Yay! so excited. I cant wait to find out what city we go to!!! :)
 
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erg923 said:
Uh, what the French, toast?! Do they actually think that is professional? How hard is it to pencil in a tentative appointment?
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I have no idea, but it was good preparation for my Phase III interview that happened with only a day's notice too!
 
Yay, it looks like at least 3 of us have matched in Phase III! There's still hope! Congrats, psychtalk1274 and Aurora88!
 
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Two new sites added this morning, one of which is APA (Bowling Green State University Counseling Center). Good luck, peeps!
 
SmithPsy24 said:
Two new sites added this morning, one of which is APA (Bowling Green State University Counseling Center). Good luck, peeps!
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Good luck to you too. I just submitted my application to Bowling Green. Seems like a solid training program.
 
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