2013-2014 Underdawgs Thread ( Lets get it)

[Dreamstoo]

sorry to go off the topic, but just to give hope to the UDs out there.

Acceped to LUCOM with cGPA 2.9, sGPA 2.75, gradGPA 3.1 (higher level PhD & SMP classes) 10+yrs medical exposure, various EC's & leadership & 3.9 middle & high school GPA lol ironic huh with 27 (9/9/9) & 26 (8/8/10) MCAT

about LUCOM, they have residency spots set with well known 6+ medical centers & hospitals in VA, and you're not limitted to stay in VA as ppl think) ... they're loooking for dedicated future docs, probably, favoring primary care (I'm pursuing pediatrics) & not controlling as people think. I went to super liberal undergrad and come from liberal family, & I don't feel choked at LUCOM at all, so apply!

I don't think that really matters. I didin't care in middle school and had straight Cs.

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[Dreamstoo]

Anicetus was actually accepted to an MD program at one of the SUNY's (I believe). The 6 vr was no issue.

Next year's UD thread needs to be seriously revamped. No one with 3.00/3.00/27+, no one with 3.20/3.20/25+, no one with 3.30/3.30/24+, and no one with 3.50/3.50/23+ should be allowed membership. Even these guidelines are somewhat generous.

If you applied to 20 schools and got 0-2 interviews, then you can say you are an UD. If you have interviews coming out of year ears, PLEASE do not claim UD status no matter how bad you think your stats are.

Edit: If you meet the above criteria but have below 7 in BS, then you can (albeit, uncertainly) claim UD status. If you have below 5 in VR or PS but meet above criteria you can (albeit, uncertainly) claim UD status.

I 100% agree, I hate seeing very high numbers in these threads they should just go to the Class of 20__ thread instead.

 

[coolingglasses]

I 100% agree, I hate seeing very high numbers in these threads they should just go to the Class of 20__ thread instead.

I largely disagree with both of you. My numbers (3.1/27) with basic ECs would've left me with maybe one or two interviews, if that. I happened to get a look from schools in areas where I had a connection (PNWU, KCOM) or schools that I think had an appreciable look at my ECs. For schools like TouroNY, I worked really hard on my secondary and did a lot of research on the area.

There was no question that my grades were weak, both the interviews I went on actually grilled me on them. They were below what was expected of an applicant.

 

[coolingglasses]

Actually, it matters to the committee. They said I had discipline to study in med school according to my long time achievement and full merit college scholarship. That's one of the reasons I got in.

The committee looked at your HS grades?

 

[user3]

I largely disagree with both of you. My numbers (3.1/27) with basic ECs would've left me with maybe one or two interviews, if that. I happened to get a look from schools in areas where I had a connection (PNWU, KCOM) or schools that I think had an appreciable look at my ECs. For schools like TouroNY, I worked really hard on my secondary and did a lot of research on the area.

There was no question that my grades were weak, both the interviews I went on actually grilled me on them. They were below what was expected of an applicant.

Your case is not atypical. There were other people this year with 3.0-3.1/27 and multiple interviews (including one with 3.1/2.9/27 and 4 ii's), and even one person with 3.2/27 and 13 interviews.

 

[Stephanopolous]

I'll be part of the next underdog thread. Thanks for sharing your stats/progress, it's reassuring/motivational! Good luck to everyone still active in this cycle.

 

[coolingglasses]

Your case is not atypical. There were other people this year with 3.0-3.1/27 and multiple interviews (including one with 3.1/2.9/27 and 4 ii's), and even one person with 3.2/27 and 13 interviews.

And what were their ECs like? Don't discredit their significance--they were an essential part of my interviews.

 

[Stephanopolous]

I'd like to get some opinions on when to take the MCAT... I'm taking A&P II and Organic Chem II this semester. I was originally going to study May/Jun/Jul doing a class and self study and taking a test at the end of July. After talking to a few friends who were accepted this cycle, I'm feeling like starting to study now (soon) and testing at the end of May is the better decision. My undergrad is low 3.0/3.0'ish with a whole semester of E's (F) for not attending classes. I have good EC's- ER clinical research, volunteer lab instructor for EMT/critical care students, paramedic and chief scribe x 4 years, 2 years of volunteering in EMS, bi lingual (spanish/english), 3 solid LOR's and DO shadow experience. I know I'll have to nail the MCAT so I want to be smart about taking it, but I don't want to apply late in the cycle. I should be able to burn vacation time and borrow money so that I can work as little as possible from now till May while I study and take these classes.

Thanks for any feedback.

Steph

 

[DE15C]

Serenade, can you update me, ii and accepted at WVSOM.

 

[Stephanopolous]

Congrats!!!

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I'd like to get some opinions on when to take the MCAT... I'm taking A&P II and Organic Chem II this semester. I was originally going to study May/Jun/Jul doing a class and self study and taking a test at the end of July. After talking to a few friends who were accepted this cycle, I'm feeling like starting to study now (soon) and testing at the end of May is the better decision. My undergrad is low 3.0/3.0'ish with a whole semester of E's (F) for not attending classes. I have good EC's- ER clinical research, volunteer lab instructor for EMT/critical care students, paramedic and chief scribe x 4 years, 2 years of volunteering in EMS, bi lingual (spanish/english), 3 solid LOR's and DO shadow experience. I know I'll have to nail the MCAT so I want to be smart about taking it, but I don't want to apply late in the cycle. I should be able to burn vacation time and borrow money so that I can work as little as possible from now till May while I study and take these classes.

Thanks for any feedback.

Steph

I don't think July will be too late, but you better get a nice score (27+) since your GPAs are on the low side. However, I think you might be ok with 25 MCAT for low tier DO. If you are taking it late July, make sure your application is already submitted ( and verified) and you prewrite your secondaries.

 

[user3]

And what were their ECs like? Don't discredit their significance--they were an essential part of my interviews.

EC's schmee-cees. DO schools have a hard enough time attracting enough numerically qualified applicants to have the privelege of considering EC's on top of stats (like most allo schools do). I think more DO schools need to step up their GPA/MCAT admissions standards and stop worrying so much about (BS-able) EC's, interviews, and essays.

 

[dreamcatcher1520]

EC's schmee-cees. DO schools have a hard enough time attracting enough numerically qualified applicants to have the privelege of considering EC's on top of stats (like most allo schools do). I think more DO schools need to step up their GPA/MCAT admissions standards and stop worrying so much about (BS-able) EC's, interviews, and essays.

Your either in love with yourself or dillusional If do is such a joke, why is MD moving closer and closer to holistic medicine?

 

[dreamcatcher1520]

Oh, but a good mcat combined with no urge to serve, people skills, or work ethic, will land you on top of the doctor world. That's what interviewers look for, people that aren't well rounded, but they have a high mcat score. You could go into an interview and eat your own feces, but mcat is everything, so your in.

 

[dreamcatcher1520]

Not

 

[user3]

Oh, but a good mcat combined with no urge to serve, people skills, or work ethic, will land you on top of the doctor world. That's what interviewers look for, people that aren't well rounded, but they have a high mcat score. You could go into an interview and eat your own feces, but mcat is everything, so your in.

Even low tier MD schools like Drexel and NYMC have more 3.6/30+ applicants than they know what to do with, so they can afford to be picky with EC's. The same cannot be said for DO schools. One step towards bringing respect closer to that of MD is raising admissions metrics, which schools fail to do by forcing even 4.0/35 applicants to write silly essays, and go out of their way to interview. These extra hoops that DO schools make even well qualified applicants jump through causes many excellent candidates to be lost.

Anyhow, people regularly and easily BS their EC's, essays and interview answers. But can the same be done with a 4.0 GPA or 35 MCAT?

 

[DocWinter]

EC's schmee-cees. DO schools have a hard enough time attracting enough numerically qualified applicants to have the privelege of considering EC's on top of stats (like most allo schools do).

I'll agree that they are not as important as the MCAT and GPA, but my ECs are what got me into Medical school and and what made my interview easy.
If you don't have solid numbers you wont get in nearly anywhere, period. But when it comes to schools deciding who to accept out of the pool of interviewies with similar numbers, your interest and experience plays a role. Schools want you to push through 4 years of tough stuff for a goal. They want you to pass their boards (and make them look good). They want someone who knows what they are getting into. Nothing says that like solid ECs

 

[dreamcatcher1520]

Agreed

 

[iTcanBdone]

Formula:
MCAT/2 + sGPA*10 = Applicant Score

(The "sGPA" here is your science GPA)

The average applicant (according to the 2009 matriculant data: 25.49 MCAT, 3.25sGPA) will then have their "applicant score" as 45.25, as per the formula: (25.49/2) + (3.25*10) = 45.25

The average matriculant (according to the 2009 matriculant data: 26.19 MCAT, 3.35sGPA) will then have their "applicant score" as 46.60, as per the formula: (26.19/2) + (3.35*10) = 46.60

Wow this definitely makes me feel more hopeful but I do wonder how your graduate degree factors into all this. I know on your primary app its averaged into your sGPA but does anyone know if the adcoms evaluate them separately?

My stats: 26 8/9/9, cgpa 3.1, grad gpa 3.8 (applied anatomy), sgpa total 3.1

 

[user3]

Agreed

annoying how every UD that gets in claims their EC's and interviews were great.

WRONG. Their EC's and interviewing were comparable to other applicants, their numbers were just more competitive than they thought.

You were not the only low GPA low mcat applicant to get in-- at least at LMU, which has interviewed many people with low 3.0's/24's, and many people with 22's and 23's.

 

[Dreamstoo]

Actually, it matters to the committee. They said I had discipline to study in med school according to my long time achievement and full merit college scholarship. That's one of the reasons I got in.

Eh to be honest I might be fully exaggerating my middle school gpa. It was like a 3.3-3.4. I graduated high school with a 3.5. I did go to a top 50 high school in the country however. Definitely won't help my application much because I have been consistently around the 3.3-3.5 range cumulatively my whole life.

 

[Dreamstoo]

Even low tier MD schools like Drexel and NYMC have more 3.6/30+ applicants than they know what to do with, so they can afford to be picky with EC's. The same cannot be said for DO schools. One step towards bringing respect closer to that of MD is raising admissions metrics, which schools fail to do by forcing even 4.0/35 applicants to write silly essays, and go out of their way to interview. These extra hoops that DO schools make even well qualified applicants jump through causes many excellent candidates to be lost.

Anyhow, people regularly and easily BS their EC's, essays and interview answers. But can the same be done with a 4.0 GPA or 35 MCAT?

Very true I know of Asian applicants who have gotten in with lower numbers than that into those schools. They both had solid research during their gap year or during their last two years of college.
I do know of a 3.4/28-29 who got about 7 MD ii and 4 MD acceptances. This student was preparing to take another gap year or do a masters program and was surprised about how much feedback/acceptance she ended up getting in. They definitely look at the whole application as a whole rather than ECs. For MDs, IMO a 3.5/3.3/30-32 has a chance at low tier schools if they have a well rounded EC list. I have known 3 people in the past 3 years who had these stats and have gotten into low tier MD schools either acceptance or off the wait list (All were Asian American). But obviously the higher the gpa the better.

 

[coolingglasses]

EC's schmee-cees. DO schools have a hard enough time attracting enough numerically qualified applicants to have the privelege of considering EC's on top of stats (like most allo schools do). I think more DO schools need to step up their GPA/MCAT admissions standards and stop worrying so much about (BS-able) EC's, interviews, and essays.

Uh no, not "EC's schmee-cees."

Your attitude towards people's past experiences explains so much, though. If they didn't matter, why do I see applicants on here with superior stats to mine getting rejected?

 

[coolingglasses]

annoying how every UD that gets in claims their EC's and interviews were great.

WRONG. Their EC's and interviewing were comparable to other applicants, their numbers were just more competitive than they thought.

You were not the only low GPA low mcat applicant to get in-- at least at LMU, which has interviewed many people with low 3.0's/24's, and many people with 22's and 23's.

Do you know that, or are you making another assumption?

 

[user3]

Wat. Even new schools are getting 3,000+ apps for 100-200 spots, and some DO schools average close to a 30 MCAT. How can you say DO schools aren't attracting strong apps?

If low 3.0's and mid 20's can get multiple interviews, the applicant pool is not strong. And Many of those thousands of apps you see quoted are not actually interested in attending the school they send their app to, many do not submit secondaries, many cancel interviews, many withdraw from waitlists and many drop acceptances. LMU gets about "4,000" applicants, but so many of those do one of the above, allowing room for 3.3/24's to get in.

About 1/3 of DO schools average 26 or less for their incoming classes. This is why 22-24 mcat applicants are surprisingly successful.

The 30 avg schools are the exception, not the rule. When you are assessing overall competitiveness of admission to DO schools, you have to go by the lowest common denominator--how hard is it to just get 1 acceptance anywhere? Right now, that figure hovers around 3.0/24

 

[user3]

Uh no, not "EC's schmee-cees."

Your attitude towards people's past experiences explains so much, though. If they didn't matter, why do I see applicants on here with superior stats to mine getting rejected?

Show me someone with higher stats than you who applied to a comparable # of schools and got fewer ii's

 

[DocWinter]

Show me someone with higher stats than you who applied to a comparable # of schools and got fewer ii's

It's in your hands, user3, to prove data for your statement. You can't make sweeping comments without facts and then try to have someone who calls you out do the legwork.
You're asking for the impossible, btw, because the many, many variables, including URM, personal statement, LORs, schools applied to (ie PCOM, CCOM, UNECOM vs LMU, DCOM, MUCOM, etc.) cannot be numerically calcualted in ii

 

[coolingglasses]

Show me someone with higher stats than you who applied to a comparable # of schools and got fewer ii's

Before I even start looking, I applied to 22 schools. That's the behavior of someone who needs to apply widely. Something I may not have thought to do unless I felt I was a statistical UD.

Most people peak out at <15 schools because the amount of secondaries piles up, and subsequently the amount of money lost.

Anyway, I just started combing out the 2013-14 school threads and already found someone who had a higher MCAT, higher cGPA, and same sGPA and was rejected for an II from the same school I attend and I know there are more just like them. I know that's not the metric you asked for, but if you think a med student is going to put in the time it would take comb the forums and compile data, it's not going to happen. I'm just on SDN between looking at Netter's plates.

 

[Haxx]

Show me someone with higher stats than you who applied to a comparable # of schools and got fewer ii's

3.7cGPA, 3.5sGPA 29 MCAT (9/11/9), with over 1500 direct patient care hours, over 1000 volunteering hours, and published research. I applied to 10 schools, some high and some low tier, got 1 interview, 1 acceptance and that's all I need to become a physician so I'm happy. Your generalizing statements are a bunch of crap, and have no constructive purpose in this forum. Coming into a UD thread and bashing those who may have lower stats but often have extraneous circumstances is toxic behavior, and I, for one, wouldn't mind a mod with a banhammer going to town. /rant.

 

[DocWinter]

I, for one, wouldn't mind a mod with a banhammer going to town. /rant.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I don't about ECs, but the interview part 'might' not be that necessary; otherwise MSU-COM would not be a good DO school.

 

[coolingglasses]

I don't about ECs, but the interview part 'might' not be that necessary; otherwise MSU-COM would not be a good DO school.

No dispute here. But they put more emphasis on the rest of the process.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

No dispute here. But they put more emphasis on the rest of the process.

My problem with the interview process is that most people can BS their way out of it. Also, I had a friend who had to commit to the first school that accepted him because he could not afford to go to these interviews. These interviews cost $500-700 minimum and not many premeds can afford to go to 3+.

 

[coolingglasses]

My problem with the interview process is that most people can BS their way out of it. Also, I had a friend who had to commit to the first school that accepted him because he could not afford to go to these interviews. These interviews cost $500-700 minimum and not many premeds can afford to go to 3+.

Yeah, the $$$ sucks. The whole process is incredibly expensive, even with waivers. I stopped interviewing after two in part because of the money.

It seems like it could weed out people who really don't understand professionalism, though (like the anecdote in another thread about the interviewee who showed up in what sounded like yoga pants).

 

[CSqueed]

You guys realize how often people BS their EC's right?

 

[BestDoctorEver]

You guys realize how often people BS their EC's right?

How can someone BS their ECs? Anyway that is a very risky thing to do.

 

[CSqueed]

How can someone BS their ECs? Anyway that is a very risky thing to do.

Volunteer hours that will most likely not be verified.

Stretch the timelines of certain activities.

Make up their officer name in a club or make themselves VP of some org.

Make up crazy stories to talk about in Interviews.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Volunteer hours that will most likely not be verified.

Stretch the timelines of certain activities.

Make up their officer name in a club or make themselves VP of some org.

Make up crazy stories to talk about in Interviews.

These are VERY risky things to do... I would not advise anyone to do that....

 

[CSqueed]

These are VERY risky things to do... I would not advise anyone to do that....

No one would advise anyone to do that. There are desperate premeds who don't think any of these would be a huge deal and I remember premeds doing this stuff all the time.

 

[coolingglasses]

You guys realize how often people BS their EC's right?

Sure, it's plausible. I personally considered it to be a stupid thing to do, so I had a plan for verifying every detail on my app if I were asked.

So if it wasn't my ECs/interview/essays, then what made me a more viable candidate than people with higher stats than me at the institutions I had IIs to? These were the only things that made sense. If you take those out of the equation, people who were straight up better than me were losing out while I got in. That doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[CSqueed]

Sure, it's plausible. I personally considered it to be a stupid thing to do, so I had a plan for verifying every detail on my app if I were asked.

So if it wasn't my ECs/interview/essays, then what made me a more viable candidate than people with higher stats than me at the institutions I had IIs to? These were the only things that made sense. If you take those out of the equation, people who were straight up better than me were losing out while I got in. That doesn't make any sense to me.

I personally believe the difference can be in things that haven't really been mentioned yet. Perhaps you wrote a better personal statement, overall. Perhaps your secondary essays appeared to have more time put into them or were just written better than people with slightly higher stats. It isn't just about what the EC's are, but how you reflected on them in the essay portions/descriptions, BS'd or not.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

How can someone BS their ECs? Anyway that is a very risky thing to do.

People sometimes embellish or falsify their ECs.

I know a few people who volunteered for a few hours but put on their application that they were there for months. They had a family friend who was willing to vouch for them and write a letter.

It sucks because I spent years of hard work but on paper we look the same.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[CSqueed]

People sometimes embellish or falsify their ECs.

I know a few people who volunteered for a few hours but put on their application that they were there for months. They had a family friend who was willing to vouch for them and write a letter.

It sucks because I spent years of hard work but on paper we look the same.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Same can be said about orgs. The best friend prez can vouch for officer positions.

 

[user3]

Before I even start looking, I applied to 22 schools. That's the behavior of someone who needs to apply widely. Something I may not have thought to do unless I felt I was a statistical UD.

Most people peak out at <15 schools because the amount of secondaries piles up, and subsequently the amount of money lost.

Anyway, I just started combing out the 2013-14 school threads and already found someone who had a higher MCAT, higher cGPA, and same sGPA and was rejected for an II from the same school I attend and I know there are more just like them. I know that's not the metric you asked for, but if you think a med student is going to put in the time it would take comb the forums and compile data, it's not going to happen. I'm just on SDN between looking at Netter's plates.

Ok, I saw an mdapps with 3.1/28. They applied to 24 DO schools from CA and got 5 ii's, compared to your 7 or so. Still enough to get in.

 

[user3]

3.7cGPA, 3.5sGPA 29 MCAT (9/11/9), with over 1500 direct patient care hours, over 1000 volunteering hours, and published research. I applied to 10 schools, some high and some low tier, got 1 interview, 1 acceptance and that's all I need to become a physician so I'm happy. Your generalizing statements are a bunch of crap, and have no constructive purpose in this forum. Coming into a UD thread and bashing those who may have lower stats but often have extraneous circumstances is toxic behavior, and I, for one, wouldn't mind a mod with a banhammer going to town. /rant.

Saying I think that someone got in due to stats and not interview/EC's is not bashing. One may think I am clueless but I am not bashing

 

[CSqueed]

Ok, I saw an mdapps with 3.1/28. They applied to 24 DO schools from CA and got 5 ii's, compared to your 7 or so. Still enough to get in.

User3,

Has there even been one post or thread on the Pre-DO forums about someone being worried about having ZERO interviews so far this cycle? If so, what would their stats be? I'm asking this to prove a point to the naysayers.

 

[user3]

User3,

Has there even been one post or thread on the Pre-DO forums about someone being worried about having ZERO interviews so far this cycle? If so, what would their stats be? I'm asking this to prove a point to the naysayers.

I remember someone a few years ago who got no interviews. They had 3.01/2.95/19 I believe (Noshie)

 

[CSqueed]

I remember someone a few years ago who got no interviews. They had 3.01/2.95/19 I believe (Noshie)

So basically, if you have a 3.00/<20MCAT, that is when you should start worrying for the worst.

 

[coolingglasses]

I personally believe the difference can be in things that haven't really been mentioned yet. Perhaps you wrote a better personal statement, overall. Perhaps your secondary essays appeared to have more time put into them or were just written better than people with slightly higher stats. It isn't just about what the EC's are, but how you reflected on them in the essay portions/descriptions, BS'd or not.

In case I was unclear, I meant anything that wasn't stats. Essays, ECs, interviews, anything else. I think my essay/reflective work was pretty good, as well.

Because my point above all else I've said, my point was that you can't make blanket generalizations about someone's competitiveness when they have borderline stats.

Ok, I saw an mdapps with 3.1/28. They applied to 24 DO schools from CA and got 5 ii's, compared to your 7 or so. Still enough to get in.

Ah, see though, 24? That's what I'm talking about. It's not typical to apply to that many schools. It's something an underdog applicant might have to do though.

 

[CSqueed]

In case I was unclear, I meant anything that wasn't stats. Essays, ECs, interviews, anything else. I think my essay/reflective work was pretty good, as well.

Because my point above all else I've said, my point was that you can't make blanket generalizations about someone's competitiveness when they have borderline stats.

Your stats clearly aren't uncompetitive for getting into at least one DO school. Isn't an UD someone who is worried about getting ONE acceptance?