[2016-2017] Emergency Medicine Rank Order List Thread

[EM_applicant16]

People like you broke this whole system. It does not take visiting 5 amazing county hospitals to realize you are not a county type of guy. It also does not take visiting 8-9 states to figure out where you want to live or what the COL is like. You my friend are selfish and must be swimming in a pool of money.

This kind of comment is rude and unnecessary. Personally, I did not go on this many interviews. However, some of my friends in EM/Peds/Family Med went on 15+ interviews until they found the type of program that was best for them. You may not need 17 interviews to match in EM, but if you have no geographic restrictions I think it's reasonable to check out a variety of programs to find what type of program you'll be happy at. There is a huge variety in EM programs, and saying someone is selfish and rolling in money for taking a while to figure out which end of the EM program spectrum fits their style is making some serious assumptions.

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[Cinematographer]

On ortho month, this person worked 28 days. While at a different interview on the trail, a resident from the other program voluntarily, and without provocation, warned the group of interviewers to avoid Denver (they went to med school there and knew a lot of the people).

We only do three weeks of ortho, so I honestly don't know how one of my co-interns could fit in 28 days of work in those three weeks (that's some next level malignancy if true, lol). Also, it's not uncommon for the CU students that barely passed the rotation to say "avoid Denver." Lastly, I've worked an average of 21 shifts/month during my ED rotations, not 22-26. Your rank list is already submitted, but thought this warranted clarification. You got your notes mixed up bud.

 

[EMapp2017]

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: high 220s, Step 2: high 250s
EM rotations: H/H
Medical school region: northeast
AOA: n/a
Anything else that made you more competitive:
Very non-traditional. Life experience. Personal statement (although potentially polarizing - see rejections and institution types below). School reputation. ?SLOEs and letters of rec

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Underserved/social mission + geography/weather + quality of training/autonomy (departmental and individual). County >>>>>all. Resident well-being. Collegiality + lack of formality + lack of pretentiousness. Blue states >>purple states>>>>> red states. 3 vs. 4 didn’t seem to matter until the end, when it heavily impacted my top 4.

Observations:
- I think deciding where to do residency is way too big of a life decision to make with such incomplete information (unless you rotate at a program, it's nearly impossible to know what it will be like to work there), so I think it is very important that we be very honest with each other. Programs should be transparent with applicants, and vice versa. This doesn't have to be a game.
- Regional bias is very real – if you want to open doors in a region where you are not from or do not attend med school, do an away rotation there. Anecdotally, 2 days after submitting my SLOE from Harbor, I was invited to LAC and Fresno. Also, I go to school in the northeast, did a rotation in Cali, and was rejected by all programs in the south/southeast; of course, they may have just not liked me.
- Beware of people who give vague answers when you talk/ask about weaknesses of their programs or give answers that are the opposite of what other people in the program are saying (err on the side of the negative comments being closer to the truth).
- Most interviews are simply to see whether or not you’re a douche.
- I did not send a love letter to any program, and I don’t think anybody should, because the only way it would change your position on the rank list is if someone's ego or something else is tied to the depth they must delve into their rank list to fill their class, and that’s just sad.
- Pay attention to how happy/well-rested/tired/angry/disheveled/ecstatic the residents appear
===========================
1. Maricopa

Pros: Classy af. Possibly (hopefully?) the best clinical training of any 3 year program. High acuity, high volume, underserved and immigrant population. This program has a lot in common with LAC+USC and Harbor from what I could tell, just on a slightly smaller scale (see below). The PD is highly dedicated to the program and wants the best for everybody, in work and in life. Gaining a new academic affiliation with Creighton, which will likely increase its impact on the field of EM with increased resources for research and whatnot. Autonomy is given on a sliding scale. Does not have every residency in the hospital (no anesthesia, ortho, neuro, ophtho, ENT, others) which means more autonomy, work directly with attendings on those services, and fewer consults in the ED (see below for my feelings on consults). 1 elective month each year with decent international opportunities, especially for a county program. No IM or surgery (except trauma) months! Night shifts are blocked, which is awesome. Shift length and number of shifts are probably average. A good mix of young and old faculty (many have been there 20+ years, which speaks to the idea that people enjoy working there). Great resident camaraderie and everyone seemed really chill. Epic EMR is just the best. Phoenix is big, inexpensive, has great food and nightlife, great outdoors options, and all the warm sunshine you can handle.

I had a very difficult time ordering my top 3, but the fact that this is a 3 year program moved it to the top.

Cons: Perhaps does not have as big of an impact on the field of EM as some of the others on my list, but we can change that (see above). Unsure about the quality of the off-service rotations. State is not as blue as I would like, but that just means more opportunities for change. Articles starting with “Arizona man” are second only to “Florida man”. Summers are hot af.

2. LAC+USC

Pros: Highest volume in the country, highest acuity (except maybe Fresno). Long history as being a leader in the field of EM and creating new leaders. Great social mission of helping the poor and immigrant communities. Everyone I interviewed with was clearly working at this hospital for the right reasons. The department carries a lot of weight in the hospital, which results in a lot of departmental autonomy and more robust learning opportunities (I despise unnecessary consults or hospital guidelines that say certain people must be consulted; I feel EM docs should do just about everything on their own in the department). The didactics are highly interactive and highly entertaining. Everybody was super laid-back and confident. Carry the code bag for the entire hospital. Although I’d rather not do a 4th year, they seem to have thought it out pretty well and actually make the most of it. LA/SoCal are just the best. Perfect weather

Cons: Mostly 12 hour shifts (although they said they have been making an effort to improve this). The salary is low relative to the COL (?same salary as Harbor I believe as they are both paid by LA county). Not a lot of other sites (adding more though). Traffic. Not a lot of elective time compared to other 4 year residencies. Weak international opportunities

3. Harbor UCLA

Pros: Much of what I just said about LAC applies here as well (long history, clinical acumen, social mission, county program with big hand in advancing EM as a field, general badassery). Did an away rotation here and absolutely loved it. The residents/attendings are just awesome as doctors and as people. The patients are sick, the social issues are abundant. The faculty are super into teaching on shift. Excellent peds, ultrasound, and sim (won simwars 3 years in a row now). The patients are incredibly grateful (while I was doing a paracentesis on an older Mexican woman, she helped me practice Spanish). Ryan Pedigo (the clerkship director) is very committed and wants to ensure everybody has a great experience…he’s just a good person (yes, I know he’s going to read this). The residents were very welcoming (inviting us over to their houses and out for drinks). The residents and attendings are clinically sharp and relied a lot on evidence-based medicine and were very current on their knowledge base and practice. 3 free meals per day in the staff cafeteria (average quality for hospital food). Shifts and schedule are reasonable and you can easily trade days with others. Much of Rosen’s is written here, which bolsters my point about them being up to date and knowing the data. WikEM also founded here. LA is all-around awesome. Perfect weather. No suits or ties for interviews (interviewed during rotation, not sure if this is the same for regular interviews).

Cons: I don’t understand the purpose of the 4th year as it is now (and the current 4th years – who are the first ones - did not seem thrilled about it). LAC’s use of the 4th year moved it ahead of Harbor for me. I died a little inside when I didn't rank it #1. If this was still a 3 year program, or they improved the clinical curriculum and use of the 4th year, it would probably be my #1. Same salary/COL issue as LAC+USC. The didactics were a little dry. A fair amount of boarding. Not much time spent in the ED during first year. Weak international opportunities. LA traffic sucks.

4. U of Chicago

Pros: Highly underserved population in one of the most violent, segregated, politically corrupt cities in the country. That means lots of ways to make a difference, especially with the resources and influence of the university. Lots of research opportunities. New ED opening in January of intern year and regaining their designation as a Level 1 trauma center after a 30 year absence (due to a morally reprehensible financial decision to close it in the 80s). Residents and faculty seem to be all about helping serve the south side and improving lives. Flight program is pretty sweet. 3 year program, which moved it ahead of Cook county and Highland. Chicago has everything and is affordable compared to other large cities.

Cons: Unsure of how the new ED and trauma center will impact the clinical curriculum, workflow, and logistics. Winters are cold af and way too long.

5. Highland

Pros: Strong family feel and close relationships among the staff and residents. Very underserved population resulting in high acuity and strong social impacts on patient’s lives. Big turnout for the pre-interview dinner where it was apparent how cool and real the residents were. Didactics were highly entertaining and everybody was having fun. No suits or ties for interview day was a nice touch.

Cons: COL is rough, even with the higher salaries. Too many off-service rotations (by my calculation, only spend 28 months in the ED, compared to 24-25 at Copa and U of Chicago which are 3 year programs)

6. Cook County

Pros: High acuity, high volume. Residents were just cool people. Leadership also very cool and all about the social mission. Lou Malnati’s for lunch.

Cons: They had a slide in their PowerPoint titled “Work Hard, Play Hard.” 14 weeks of trauma 30 hour shifts Q3 (**** that). Graduated responsibility is too much of an emphasis. Winters are cold af.

7. Vegas

Pros: high acuity, underserved population. PD is great and he clearly wants to make this an excellent training program (although it seems like his hands might be tied). Vegas has excellent food, entertainment, outdoors, and is inexpensive.

Cons: My understanding (may be inaccurate) is that many of the attendings are from a private group that staffs the ED, so a lot of them don’t care about teaching residents. 12 hour shifts. Residents were a bit awkward during the lunch (to the point where students would get up and sit elsewhere). UNLV is opening a new med school this year, but it doesn’t seem like they are taking advantage of that to improve the hospital’s academic prowess.

8. UCSF Fresno

Pros: high(est?) acuity and huge volume with lot of patients in the hallways. Biggest trauma volume in California. Great reputation for clinical training. Great access to outdoors and national parks. Very nice gym where you can get to know your ortho colleagues. New program director has been APD for a while so it will probably be a smooth transition.

Cons: It’s in Fresno. I drove around and tried to like it, but it was hard. One of their selling points was that it's just a few hours to LA or SF

9. Denver

Pros. Great city with great outdoors access. Well-educated, conscientious, progressive city. The end result of training here is being an outstanding clinician; however, I don’t believe the ends justify the means.Would probably be awesome to be an attending here.

Cons: Their motto is the tired cliché “Work Hard, Play Hard.” The surgery mentality regarding work/life balance runs deep. Some residents were intentionally misleading about the amount they work. One said “It’s great, we only work 8 hour shifts!” while another rebutted, “Well, we actually work like 60 hours a week.” Another said they see patients for 8 hours, but they usually come in 30 minutes early, and stay 2-2.5 hours late; this was corroborated by others. If the culture is to work, work, work, at least ****ing own it, no need to sugarcoat and deceive. One resident who was the most honest person on the entire trail showed his schedule for the month, he “only” worked 23 shifts that month and said it usually ranges from 22-26. He was SO excited to have 2 days off in a row…”this almost never happens!” like a kid on xmas. On ortho month, this person worked 28 days. While at a different interview on the trail, a resident from the other program voluntarily, and without provocation, warned the group of interviewers to avoid Denver (they went to med school there and knew a lot of the people).

10. Pitt

Pros. The “Jeep” seems like a great way to gain independence and confidence early on. Great variety of training sites.

Cons: A resident said “We work hard, and we play hard.” The "Jeep" is a Ford Explorer. The faculty and residents were a bit monochromatic. (White people: 12/15 R3s, 13/16 R2s, 15/17 R1s). Despite Pittsburgh being 27% black, they have 1 black resident out of 48). The lack of diversity is not limited to Pitt (and is actually prevalent in a lot of EM programs, even some on this list), but it was more noticeable here for some reason. The only thing people had to offer when asked about what was good about Pittsburgh was pro sports.

11. MGH/BWH

Pros: Home program. Probably the best research and global health opportunities of any program. A lot of experts on a lot of topics. Huge number of faculty means that someone is probably working on something you are interested in. If you know you want to be in academia or global health, then this is the place to be (that letterhead ain’t free though, see cons). Get to see all of the zebras that you read about. High volume and decent acuity at MGH. The strongest off-service rotations of any program in the country (assuming you can take advantage of the opportunity to learn from some of the best in every field). Epic EMR is the bee’s knees. Boston is a fantastic city for young people, whether single or married. Very walkable + above average public trans = don’t need a car.

Cons: The clinical training leaves a lot to be desired. Not as many undifferentiated patients…many are just coming through the ED on their way to the floor to see their super subspecialist, or you have access to their entire medical records so you already know what is wrong (great for the patients, bad for learning EM). Many transfers from smaller hospitals where they were already worked up and just need a higher level of care. People in Massachusetts are generally healthier because almost everyone has health insurance, so there is lower acuity compared to the other programs on my list. Less trauma in Boston as well (seems most goes to BMC, especially penetrating). These hospitals have every residency and fellowship imaginable so there are way too many consults and too many procedures taken away. Surgery, neuro, and IM are stationed in the ED (they need to get back on the floors where they belong). Mass Eye and Ear has their own ED next to MGH. EM is not well-respected by other departments at these hospitals, evidenced by the amount of **** that is talked about the EM docs/residents by the other departments. Some of the residents did not know some very basic things about medicine (which may or may not be a reflection on the program). Huge number of faculty means the residents and faculty don’t know each other well (in several cases, they had never even met) and don’t build relationships as well. Compete with PAs to pick up new patients. High COL. Boston does Italian and seafood well, but not much else. Winters are cold af. Time for a change of scenery.

Invited, withdrew: WashU (Decided Chicago is the only livable city in the Midwest)

Invited, did not rank: none. Do you want to be an EM doc or not?

Waitlist: BMC, Maryland

Silent: UCLA Olive View

Rejected: Vandy, Emory, Carolinas, Cincy, UNM (regional bias much?), NW, UW, Hennepin

I go to school in the northeast, grew up on the west coast my whole life before medical school, did an away rotation in CA and did not get a single invite on the west coast except for where I rotated. Did anyone else have this experience? I see a lot that everyone says to do an away rotation in the region you want interviews but that didn't work out for me.

Before everyone asks, I got an honors and top 10% on my SLOE from that away program. I got plenty of interviews in the northeast, but this regional bias was very real for me. Just wondering if anyone had the same experience.

Good luck everyone!

 

[westdescartes]

I go to school in the northeast, grew up on the west coast my whole life before medical school, did an away rotation in CA and did not get a single invite on the west coast except for where I rotated. Did anyone else have this experience? I see a lot that everyone says to do an away rotation in the region you want interviews but that didn't work out for me.

Before everyone asks, I got an honors and top 10% on my SLOE from that away program. I got plenty of interviews in the northeast, but this regional bias was very real for me. Just wondering if anyone had the same experience.

Good luck everyone!

This is very scary, if true. I'm thinking about going back to CA (same situation, whole life on West coast) as well. Would you recommend doing 2 aways in CA then?

 

[Onscene]

I had a somewhat similar situation where I tried to break into the SE. Did 2 aways in that region. Ended up that even after some heavy applying my only interviews in the region were at my aways. I'm not convinced the majority of the process isn't a crapshoot.

 

[EMapp2017]

This is very scary, if true. I'm thinking about going back to CA (same situation, whole life on West coast) as well. Would you recommend doing 2 aways in CA then?

I'm not sure what to recommend. Based off some of the rank lists on this thread, I think one away is fine as long as you have really high step scores. I think there might be a higher step 1 cutoff for out of the region applicants. I got a 230 on step 1 and it seems like people in the 250s-260s range didn't have that problem. But then again, it could all be a crapshoot as noted above.

 

[doggydog]

Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 210, Step 2: 240s, Step 2CS: Pass
EM rotations: HP/HP/H
Medical school region: Northeast
Anything else that made you more competitive:
Personal statement was brought up at every interview. leadership positions in extracurriculars. otherwise, bottom 25% of class, mediocre 3rd year with mostly P/HP (only H in non-shelf courses), zero research.

Was told by my EM advisor to apply to 50+ programs... i didn't and only applied to 39 (which included reaches that i honestly never should have wasted my money on)

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
geography (trying to stay in tri-state area), clinical experiences (i.e. autonomy, procedures, pt volume and diversity, badass-ness of residents), multiple clinical sites a plus, 4 years a con but not a deal-breaker, naive and the idea of ample trauma is still tantalizing

*had some family stuff factor into my decision-making, so my actual ROL differs a bit from this one (but only slightly)

1) SUNY Downstate/Kings County -
PROS: Faculty are awesome, really care about education. Residents are super badass. A real roll-up-your-sleeves kind of ED... no one complains about the scut work, they just multitask and place IVs while getting the history. High volume. Lots of pathology, lots of trauma (especially for NYC), lots of procedures. ED at KCH is pretty spacious and nice imo. 2 clinical sites. Areas of Brooklyn where residents actually live is cool.

CONS: Ancillary staff sucks. Homogeneous population. Huge resident class. Hospitals in a not-so-aesthetic part of Brooklyn. 4 years.

2) Jacobi/Montefiore (Albert Einstein) -
PROS: Again, badass residents. My favorite 4 year design, with clear graduated responsibility (3rd year chiefs, 4th year pre-attendings). Involved with traumas/notifications starting Day 1 of intern year. Great relationship with trauma surg (none of that BS “odds/evens” day nonsense). High volume. Lots of pathology, tons of trauma (especially for NYC). Montefiore is a jam packed ED (not for everyone, but I like that). Jacobi’s ED is nice and spacious. 3 clinical sites total. EM is respected. Plenty of procedures.

CONS: Subpar ancillary staff. Faculty not as cool/friendly/outgoing as Downstate. Huge resident class. Bronx < Brooklyn. 4 years.

3) Lincoln -
PROS: APDs are super cool. Lots of pathology, and a ton of trauma (especially for NYC… yeah I know, I’m being repetitive). Plenty of procedures. Ancillary staff not that bad for NYC, I’m told. Forensics elective sounds awesome. Nice, big ED.

CONS: PD was a little weird on interview day. Not sure if I gelled that much with the residents. Only 1 clinical site. Not convinced 4th year role here is worth it. 4 years. South Bronx… ugh...

4) NY Presbyterian (Cornell/Columbia) -
PROS: Academic mecca, amazing doctors in every specialty in the hospital. 2 clinical sites. Awesome Peds ED at Columbia. Great didactics. It’s got the name. Somehow, my favorite residents of the interview trail… everybody is super chill. I liked the PD too, on the forefront of this resident wellness movement. Amazing ancillary staff for NYC. EDs are super nice.

CONS: Surgery rotation?!? Really?!? EM not a super respected department in either hospital yet. A lot of 12 hr shifts (20?). No trauma in Manhattan. 4 years. Not convinced 4th year role here is worth it.

5) Maimonides -
PROS: Literal definition of diverse patient population - Asian, Hispanic, Jamaican, African, Russian, Greek, Arabic, etc… all in a pretty even distribution. PD is a pretty chill guy. Great faculty. LOTS of cool event medicine opportunities. 3 years.

CONS: Only 1 clinical site (not counting Shock in MD). Not a big fan of having to use the translator phone a lot. Some trauma, but they lose a lot to Kings County. Not my favorite part of Brooklyn...

6) UConn -
PROS: I really liked this program, surprisingly. 4 clinical sites. Nice facilities. Amazing new sim center. Great didactics. Relative cush shift schedule (something like 9 hr shifts x 18?), and therefore very happy residents. 3 years.

CONS: Maybe too cush for my liking. Not sold on there being enough volume. Minimal trauma. Hartford isn’t that great, and being within two hours of NYC/Boston/VT is still too far away from all three for my liking.

7) Buffalo -
PROS: 6 clinical sites (amazing) with surprisingly a ton of penetrating trauma. Scholarly tracks. Buffalo up and coming city. Get on the sidelines for some Bills/Sabres games. 3 years.

CONS: Learning 6 EMRs may be beneficial, but will still suck. No tox. No sim. Interview day was all white dudes. To my surprise, residents made it seem like there’s a firm demarcation between the good and bad parts of town, which is right near the hospital. That cold, man… and that lake effect snow, man...

8) Albany -
PROS: New, passionate PD. Good trauma exposure. Happy residents. Scholarly tracks. Building new PED soon. 3 years.

CONS: Only 1 clinical site. ED felt kind of depressing. Weak sim. Not sure what to do in Albany.

9) Morristown -
PROS: What an awesome, small community program… and they still get a high volume! Residents are happy. PD and APDs are all easy to get along with. Easy off-service. Housing provided. 3 years.

CONS: Basically no trauma. I think only 1 clinical site? Seems like more of place to settle down with a family in your 30s, not to train in your 20s.

10) Rutgers NJMS (Newark) -
PROS: I love me some trauma. New PD seems like he knows what he’s doing. Most residents live in a cooler part of NJ (i.e. Hoboken, Jersey City).

CONS: Only 1 clinical site. ED was unimpressive. Didactics also seem a little weak? I don’t like the idea of being in Newark everyday… especially for 4 years.

11) North Shore/LIJ -
PROS: 3 + 1 years, first year of new program could allow for lots of resident input. PD is hilarious. Other staff played board games with us on interview day, which was a nice touch. Noticeably higher income than any other program.

CONS: First year of combined 3+1 program, not sure how bumpy the ride would be. 2 clinical sites, but not that different, not a lot of diversity. Shock trauma in MD. Did not meet any residents at any point during the day. I don’t gel with Long Island folks that well in general, not sure why…

12) Rutgers RWJ (New Brunswick) -
PROS: Just a solid, well-rounded program. More meal money than you can dream to use up, apparently. 3 years.

ONS: Didn’t gel with the PD, or any of my other 3 interviewers really. Small class. Basically 1 clinical site (go somewhere down the street for OB). Little trauma. Not a fan of the area.

13) Brooklyn Hospital -
PROS: Program has a lot to prove, so hopefully people are motivated? Decent part of Brooklyn to live, on campus housing is actually pretty legit. PD and department chair both seem to care a lot about their residents.

CONS: On probation. Relatively new faculty across the board. Weak didactics. Lose a lot of their trauma to Downstate/Kings (in fact, rotate there for Peds ED/trauma I believe). 4 years, and not quite sure why.

Other:
Waitlist/Hard Rejection/Silent Rejection from every other program in NY, NJ, CT, no Boston love, no Philly love

 

[doggydog]

Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 250s, Step 2: 250s
EM rotations: H, P (P/F system), HP
Anything else that made you more competitive:
GHHS, multiple leadership positions in EM and non-EM related activities, some prior EM experience before med school, EM related research

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Location, overall fit, 3>4 year, rigorous clinical training, decent work-life balance

1) University of Chicago
Pros - Got a warm fuzzy feeling during my interview day here. Great group of residents and faculty. PD is fantastic. Incredible pathology from combination of underserved community of south side Chicago and tertiary care patients, high volumes. New ED and level 1 trauma designation is an exciting change that I think will only make this program stronger in the future. International flight program and moonlighting other great perks.

Cons - transition to new ED and phasing out the Mt Sinai site over the next few years will likely bring some curriculum changes

2) Advocate Christ
Pros - Certainly has a great reputation and one of the strongest programs in the city, high volumes with crazy pathology. Like the one-on-one attending and resident pairing during shifts. Really liked the group of residents and faculty I had the chance to meet. Internal moonlighting starting intern year is pretty neat.

Cons - one site, long commute, small ED

3) Indiana University
Pros - Diversity of training sites with county hospital and tertiary care hospital along with children’s hospital, high volumes between three sites, well thought out curriculum, various tracks in EMS/education/research/admin, moonlighting opportunities, decent number of in-house fellowships

Cons - Indianapolis is not my ideal city

4) UIC
Pros - strong program with diverse sites and patient populations, fun group of residents, PD and APD were great

Cons - commute to Lutheran General from city, brown coats, few opportunities to get involved with teaching

5) University of Michigan
Pros - Mix of academic 40%, community at St. Joes 40%, and County at Hurley 20%, strong critical care, EC3, residents down to earth bunch, plenty of opportunities here to develop niche in EM, optional flight program

Cons - not entirely sold on that fourth year, Ann arbor is so so, hour commute to Hurley

6) Carolina's
Pros: outgoing residents, busy trauma center, longitudinal pediatrics experience, 10 hours shifts, plenty of research opportunities, fantastic ultrasound curriculum, no graduated responsibility, internal moonlighting available as PGY2/3, lots of teaching opportunities

Cons: single site, Charlotte

7) Ohio State
Pros: PD and APDs were great and made a great sell of the program and commitment to producing leaders in the field and creating great educators. Outstanding US curriculum with tons of ways to get involved. I liked the flipped classroom model for didactics

Cons: Wish there were more community opportunities

8) Denver
Pros: great reputation, amazing clinical training, residents seem happy and have great things to say about the program and city, the fourth year makes sense here with how they organized the curriculum, research opportunities

Cons: 4 year, triage doc at UC Hospital takes away from resident education, circadian scheduling is less than ideal with only one day turnaround from nights shift to morning shift, pediatrics in block scheduling only, residents did speak to the malignant rumor and attributed that to formerly being under the surgery department

9) Northwestern
Pros: Like the PD and Chair, opportunities to pursue academics, research, or admin

Cons: Has an elitist vibe, too academic for my taste, didn't like one of the APDs-came across as rude and uninterested, not the best clinical training compared to other Chicago programs due to its location

10) Detroit Receiving
Pros: early autonomy, high volumes and acuity, fun group of residents

Cons: Detroit, lack of funding

11) Hennepin
Pros: diverse patient population, STABs, scheduling, alumni network, great job placement, moonlighting available, no subspecialties to take away procedures

Cons: strict graduated responsibly - procedures as PGY2 and can intubate as PGY3 in ED, interns don’t go to STAB room, medicine month, city is cold

12) LAC/USC
Pros: excellent clinical training, amazing group of educators, EMRAP folks here

Cons: 4 years, Not a fan of 12 hour shifts and working month blocks of nights only

13) Medical College of Wisconsin
Pros: loved the PD and APDs, decent amount of trauma and pediatrics exposure, liked the milwaukee area

Cons: Didn't click with the residents here

14) Henry Ford
Very few residents showed up to pre-interview dinner and interview lunch which I found concerning, either they're working too hard or don’t care enough about the program to make an appearance, Wasn't a fan of the Detroit area

15) Western Michigan University
Did not click with the residents here, PD is a little odd, extremely long interview day was annoying, did not like kalamazoo

Other:
Invited, but declined: Stanford, LLU, JPS, Hopkins, BIDMC, Maryland, Georgetown, Orlando, Wake Forest, Christiana, Iowa, Sinai Grace, Wisconsin-Madison, Boston University, UF-Jacksonville, Regions, UTSW

Rejected/Waitlisted: Cincy, Vanderbilt, Resurrection, Cook County, Baylor, UNC, UPMC, Emory, Highland, UT Austin, Harbor, UCSF, WashU, U of Illinois Peoria

 

[anonymous654]

Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: low 250s, Step 2: high 250s
EM rotations: H, P (P/F system), HP
AOA
Medical school region: Midwest
Anything else that made you more competitive:
GHHS, multiple leadership positions in EM and non-EM related activities, some prior EM experience before med school, EM related research

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Location, overall fit, 3>4 year, rigorous clinical training, decent work-life balance

1) University of Chicago
Pros - Got a warm fuzzy feeling during my interview day here. Great group of residents and faculty. PD is fantastic. Incredible pathology from combination of underserved community of south side Chicago and tertiary care patients, high volumes. New ED and level 1 trauma designation is an exciting change that I think will only make this program stronger in the future. International flight program and moonlighting other great perks.

Cons - transition to new ED and phasing out the Mt Sinai site over the next few years will likely bring some curriculum changes

2) Advocate Christ
Pros - Certainly has a great reputation and one of the strongest programs in the city, high volumes with crazy pathology. Like the one-on-one attending and resident pairing during shifts. Really liked the group of residents and faculty I had the chance to meet. Internal moonlighting starting intern year is pretty neat.

Cons - one site, long commute, small ED

3) Indiana University
Pros - Diversity of training sites with county hospital and tertiary care hospital along with children’s hospital, high volumes between three sites, well thought out curriculum, various tracks in EMS/education/research/admin, moonlighting opportunities, decent number of in-house fellowships

Cons - Indianapolis is not my ideal city

4) UIC
Pros - strong program with diverse sites and patient populations, fun group of residents, PD and APD were great

Cons - commute to Lutheran General from city, brown coats, few opportunities to get involved with teaching

5) University of Michigan
Pros - Mix of academic 40%, community at St. Joes 40%, and County at Hurley 20%, strong critical care, EC3, residents down to earth bunch, plenty of opportunities here to develop niche in EM, optional flight program

Cons - not entirely sold on that fourth year, Ann arbor is so so, hour commute to Hurley

6) Carolina's
Pros: outgoing residents, busy trauma center, longitudinal pediatrics experience, 10 hours shifts, plenty of research opportunities, fantastic ultrasound curriculum, no graduated responsibility, internal moonlighting available as PGY2/3, lots of teaching opportunities

Cons: single site, Charlotte

7) Ohio State
Pros: PD and APDs were great and made a great sell of the program and commitment to producing leaders in the field and creating great educators. Outstanding US curriculum with tons of ways to get involved. I liked the flipped classroom model for didactics

Cons: Wish there were more community opportunities

8) Denver
Pros: great reputation, amazing clinical training, residents seem happy and have great things to say about the program and city, the fourth year makes sense here with how they organized the curriculum, research opportunities

Cons: 4 year, triage doc at UC Hospital takes away from resident education, circadian scheduling is less than ideal with only one day turnaround from nights shift to morning shift, pediatrics in block scheduling only, residents did speak to the malignant rumor and attributed that to formerly being under the surgery department

9) Northwestern
Pros: Like the PD and Chair, opportunities to pursue academics, research, or admin

Cons: Has an elitist vibe, too academic for my taste, didn't like one of the APDs-came across as rude and uninterested, not the best clinical training compared to other Chicago programs due to its location

10) Detroit Receiving
Pros: early autonomy, high volumes and acuity, fun group of residents

Cons: Detroit, lack of funding

11) Hennepin
Pros: diverse patient population, STABs, scheduling, alumni network, great job placement, moonlighting available, no subspecialties to take away procedures

Cons: strict graduated responsibly - procedures as PGY2 and can intubate as PGY3 in ED, interns don’t go to STAB room, medicine month, city is cold

12) LAC/USC
Pros: excellent clinical training, amazing group of educators, EMRAP folks here

Cons: 4 years, Not a fan of 12 hour shifts and working month blocks of nights only

13) Medical College of Wisconsin
Pros: loved the PD and APDs, decent amount of trauma and pediatrics exposure, liked the milwaukee area

Cons: Didn't click with the residents here

14) Henry Ford
Very few residents showed up to pre-interview dinner and interview lunch which I found concerning, either they're working too hard or don’t care enough about the program to make an appearance, Wasn't a fan of the Detroit area

15) Western Michigan University
Did not click with the residents here, PD is a little odd, extremely long interview day was annoying, did not like kalamazoo

Other:
Invited, but declined: Stanford, LLU, JPS, Hopkins, BIDMC, Maryland, Georgetown, Orlando, Wake Forest, Christiana, Iowa, Sinai Grace, Wisconsin-Madison, Boston University, UF-Jacksonville, Regions, UTSW

Rejected/Waitlisted: Cincy, Vanderbilt, Resurrection, Cook County, Baylor, UNC, UPMC, Emory, Highland, UT Austin, Harbor, UCSF, WashU, U of Illinois Peoria

Lol, why does it feel like 90% of posters here have this exact rank list

 

[doggydog]

Lol, why does it feel like 90% of posters here have this exact rank list

This happens every year. SDN is a very self-selecting population.

 

[RandomMemberName]

.

 

[EMPertinent]

This is why I feel it's so important that programs be honest with students. One person from the program says one thing, the next person says something different. Keep in mind that I'm reporting what we were told directly by residents. There are no mix-ups here, if the numbers are inaccurate, it's because they were reported inaccurately by the residents. Yeah, 28 out of 21 days would be tough to justify, but I didn't say they were an intern. I'm guessing the ortho rotation was longer than 3 weeks when that person did it. If it's not uncommon for CU students to say that, what is it about the program or the rotation that makes them so salty? Even at the other programs with reputations for working more/harder than most, there doesn't seem to be the same level of animosity from those who have been through it. And I'm glad that you haven't been put through the ringer with the number of shifts you've been working so far, I hope it stays that way for you.

I think it's important to clarify misinformation that gets posted here about any residency (e.g. The worklod during an ortho rotation.). I'm sure, moreover, that it gets tiresome to have to constantly address the (IMO blatantly false) perception that Denver Health is a malignant program. However, I don't think it's accurate or necessary to say that only CU students who "barely passed" their EM rotations would say avoid Denver Health. I loved DH, but its brand of rigorous clinical training isn't for everyone. Plenty of strong CU students end up ranking other places higher because DH isn't a great fit for them. Denver Health is an outstanding EM residency, but isn't the only effective model for training ER docs. As they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Katalysticfish]

I did my sub-i at Albany and thought there sim was really strong. one of the nicest simple centers I saw on my trail.

Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 210, Step 2: 240s, Step 2CS: Pass
EM rotations: HP/HP/H
Medical school region: Northeast
Anything else that made you more competitive:
Personal statement was brought up at every interview. leadership positions in extracurriculars. otherwise, bottom 25% of class, mediocre 3rd year with mostly P/HP (only H in non-shelf courses), zero research.

Was told by my EM advisor to apply to 50+ programs... i didn't and only applied to 39 (which included reaches that i honestly never should have wasted my money on)

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
geography (trying to stay in tri-state area), clinical experiences (i.e. autonomy, procedures, pt volume and diversity, badass-ness of residents), multiple clinical sites a plus, 4 years a con but not a deal-breaker, naive and the idea of ample trauma is still tantalizing

*had some family stuff factor into my decision-making, so my actual ROL differs a bit from this one (but only slightly)

1) SUNY Downstate/Kings County -
PROS: Faculty are awesome, really care about education. Residents are super badass. A real roll-up-your-sleeves kind of ED... no one complains about the scut work, they just multitask and place IVs while getting the history. High volume. Lots of pathology, lots of trauma (especially for NYC), lots of procedures. ED at KCH is pretty spacious and nice imo. 2 clinical sites. Areas of Brooklyn where residents actually live is cool.

CONS: Ancillary staff sucks. Homogeneous population. Huge resident class. Hospitals in a not-so-aesthetic part of Brooklyn. 4 years.

2) Jacobi/Montefiore (Albert Einstein) -
PROS: Again, badass residents. My favorite 4 year design, with clear graduated responsibility (3rd year chiefs, 4th year pre-attendings). Involved with traumas/notifications starting Day 1 of intern year. Great relationship with trauma surg (none of that BS “odds/evens” day nonsense). High volume. Lots of pathology, tons of trauma (especially for NYC). Montefiore is a jam packed ED (not for everyone, but I like that). Jacobi’s ED is nice and spacious. 3 clinical sites total. EM is respected. Plenty of procedures.

CONS: Subpar ancillary staff. Faculty not as cool/friendly/outgoing as Downstate. Huge resident class. Bronx < Brooklyn. 4 years.

3) Lincoln -
PROS: APDs are super cool. Lots of pathology, and a ton of trauma (especially for NYC… yeah I know, I’m being repetitive). Plenty of procedures. Ancillary staff not that bad for NYC, I’m told. Forensics elective sounds awesome. Nice, big ED.

CONS: PD was a little weird on interview day. Not sure if I gelled that much with the residents. Only 1 clinical site. Not convinced 4th year role here is worth it. 4 years. South Bronx… ugh...

4) NY Presbyterian (Cornell/Columbia) -
PROS: Academic mecca, amazing doctors in every specialty in the hospital. 2 clinical sites. Awesome Peds ED at Columbia. Great didactics. It’s got the name. Somehow, my favorite residents of the interview trail… everybody is super chill. I liked the PD too, on the forefront of this resident wellness movement. Amazing ancillary staff for NYC. EDs are super nice.

CONS: Surgery rotation?!? Really?!? EM not a super respected department in either hospital yet. A lot of 12 hr shifts (20?). No trauma in Manhattan. 4 years. Not convinced 4th year role here is worth it.

5) Maimonides -
PROS: Literal definition of diverse patient population - Asian, Hispanic, Jamaican, African, Russian, Greek, Arabic, etc… all in a pretty even distribution. PD is a pretty chill guy. Great faculty. LOTS of cool event medicine opportunities. 3 years.

CONS: Only 1 clinical site (not counting Shock in MD). Not a big fan of having to use the translator phone a lot. Some trauma, but they lose a lot to Kings County. Not my favorite part of Brooklyn...

6) UConn -
PROS: I really liked this program, surprisingly. 4 clinical sites. Nice facilities. Amazing new sim center. Great didactics. Relative cush shift schedule (something like 9 hr shifts x 18?), and therefore very happy residents. 3 years.

CONS: Maybe too cush for my liking. Not sold on there being enough volume. Minimal trauma. Hartford isn’t that great, and being within two hours of NYC/Boston/VT is still too far away from all three for my liking.

7) Buffalo -
PROS: 6 clinical sites (amazing) with surprisingly a ton of penetrating trauma. Scholarly tracks. Buffalo up and coming city. Get on the sidelines for some Bills/Sabres games. 3 years.

CONS: Learning 6 EMRs may be beneficial, but will still suck. No tox. No sim. Interview day was all white dudes. To my surprise, residents made it seem like there’s a firm demarcation between the good and bad parts of town, which is right near the hospital. That cold, man… and that lake effect snow, man...

8) Albany -
PROS: New, passionate PD. Good trauma exposure. Happy residents. Scholarly tracks. Building new PED soon. 3 years.

CONS: Only 1 clinical site. ED felt kind of depressing. Weak sim. Not sure what to do in Albany.

9) Morristown -
PROS: What an awesome, small community program… and they still get a high volume! Residents are happy. PD and APDs are all easy to get along with. Easy off-service. Housing provided. 3 years.

CONS: Basically no trauma. I think only 1 clinical site? Seems like more of place to settle down with a family in your 30s, not to train in your 20s.

10) Rutgers NJMS (Newark) -
PROS: I love me some trauma. New PD seems like he knows what he’s doing. Most residents live in a cooler part of NJ (i.e. Hoboken, Jersey City).

CONS: Only 1 clinical site. ED was unimpressive. Didactics also seem a little weak? I don’t like the idea of being in Newark everyday… especially for 4 years.

11) North Shore/LIJ -
PROS: 3 + 1 years, first year of new program could allow for lots of resident input. PD is hilarious. Other staff played board games with us on interview day, which was a nice touch. Noticeably higher income than any other program.

CONS: First year of combined 3+1 program, not sure how bumpy the ride would be. 2 clinical sites, but not that different, not a lot of diversity. Shock trauma in MD. Did not meet any residents at any point during the day. I don’t gel with Long Island folks that well in general, not sure why…

12) Rutgers RWJ (New Brunswick) -
PROS: Just a solid, well-rounded program. More meal money than you can dream to use up, apparently. 3 years.

ONS: Didn’t gel with the PD, or any of my other 3 interviewers really. Small class. Basically 1 clinical site (go somewhere down the street for OB). Little trauma. Not a fan of the area.

13) Brooklyn Hospital -
PROS: Program has a lot to prove, so hopefully people are motivated? Decent part of Brooklyn to live, on campus housing is actually pretty legit. PD and department chair both seem to care a lot about their residents.

CONS: On probation. Relatively new faculty across the board. Weak didactics. Lose a lot of their trauma to Downstate/Kings (in fact, rotate there for Peds ED/trauma I believe). 4 years, and not quite sure why.

Other:
Waitlist/Hard Rejection/Silent Rejection from every other program in NY, NJ, CT, no Boston love, no Philly love

 

[OnlyOneZlatan]

Where are the DOs or the below average/average people at? Too many rank lists here with Denver, LAC, Vandy, UCSF

 

[DrWhozits]

Where are the DOs or the below average/average people at? Too many rank lists here with Denver, LAC, Vandy, UCSF

Any DOs/middle of the road/"normal" people out there who are holding out, there are others here who would appreciate your lists!

 

[NYCEM2017]

.

 

[ajh1983]

Anyone else battling the jitters about the order of #1-3 and how the hell did I even decide between them?

 

[gutonc]

Anyone else battling the jitters about the order of #1-3 and how the hell did I even decide between them?

That's actually a very good sign. Assuming you're competitive for those 3, being unsure about the order of them at this point (when it's too damn late) suggests that you'd be happy at any of them.

 

[ajh1983]

That's actually a very good sign. Assuming you're competitive for those 3, being unsure about the order of them at this point (when it's too damn late) suggests that you'd be happy at any of them.

I really think I would be happy and I'm grateful for the choices I have for sure. I think it's just a grass is always greener phenomenon comparing minor details about programs when in the end I know almost all programs will produce an outstanding ED doc.

 

[gutonc]

People like you broke this whole system. It does not take visiting 5 amazing county hospitals to realize you are not a county type of guy. It also does not take visiting 8-9 states to figure out where you want to live or what the COL is like. You my friend are selfish and must be swimming in a pool of money.

Wow!

What's it like being such a massive douche?

 

[gutonc]

I really think I would be happy and I'm grateful for the choices I have for sure. I think it's just a grass is always greener phenomenon comparing minor details about programs when in the end I know almost all programs will produce an outstanding ED doc.

I'm 5 years as an attending (in a non-EM specialty) and 11 years post-Match, and I still wonder "what if?". But at a certain point (like...ROL deadline day), you need to resolve that whatever will be, will be and you'll survive and move on no matter what.

 

[zyx189]

Re Northshore/LIJ: I feel like being the first year of this 3+1 thing is no biggie, since the first 3 years are basically the same, and they are just making the 4th year into a quasi fellowship/specialty year instead of just a 'pre-attending' year

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

People keep mentioning this 3+1... but my understanding is that the fourth year is still optional. It's just now you have an extra site to rotate at to mix up the patient population.

http://theempulse.org/314-2/

 

[EMhawkeye]

This kind of comment is rude and unnecessary. Personally, I did not go on this many interviews. However, some of my friends in EM/Peds/Family Med went on 15+ interviews until they found the type of program that was best for them. You may not need 17 interviews to match in EM, but if you have no geographic restrictions I think it's reasonable to check out a variety of programs to find what type of program you'll be happy at. There is a huge variety in EM programs, and saying someone is selfish and rolling in money for taking a while to figure out which end of the EM program spectrum fits their style is making some serious assumptions.

No it's comepletly selfish. You don't need 17 interviews to match. You are going on interviews for the sake of padding your rol if you even rank all 17 of them. You are taking interview spots at programs you couldn't give two licks about and taking away a interview spot from a person who is also qualified and genuinly wants to go there. I think the match should be more regulated like the soap. Have an integrated interview system and limit the number one can hold at any given time. That way applicants can go on the ones they really want and release the others for people who are genuinly interested in a program. I'm sorry anyone who is holding on close to 20 interviews is a jerk.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

No it's comepletly selfish. You don't need 17 interviews to match. You are going on interviews for the sake of padding your rol if you even rank all 17 of them. You are taking interview spots at programs you couldn't give two licks about and taking away a interview spot from a person who is also qualified and genuinly wants to go there. I think the match should be more regulated like the soap. Have an integrated interview system and limit the number one can hold at any given time. That way applicants can go on the ones they really want and release the others for people who are genuinly interested in a program. I'm sorry anyone who is holding on close to 20 interviews is a jerk.

Dude that's life. More qualified/desirable people are going to have more options, that's just the way things are. Furthermore, you're not "taking a spot from a person who is also qualified and genuinely wants to go there" if that program offered you an interview slot and didn't offer that hypothetical applicant one - the program leadership themselves are deciding who they want and don't want. Getting upset at someone for going on 17 interviews is silly and fruitless.

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

No it's comepletly selfish. You don't need 17 interviews to match. You are going on interviews for the sake of padding your rol if you even rank all 17 of them. You are taking interview spots at programs you couldn't give two licks about and taking away a interview spot from a person who is also qualified and genuinly wants to go there. I think the match should be more regulated like the soap. Have an integrated interview system and limit the number one can hold at any given time. That way applicants can go on the ones they really want and release the others for people who are genuinly interested in a program. I'm sorry anyone who is holding on close to 20 interviews is a jerk.

This post is bad and you should feel bad.

 

[medmedman]

Ok all let's calm our tits...

Yes the entire match process is frustrating. The money, the time, the fake smiles, the worry, and the anxiety. On top of all that, we have all of these fabulous applicants on sdn posting their 250+ scores and their 15+ interview invites that just makes the rest of us feel a little on edge. I totally understand why some people feel angry that other applicants are going on well over a dozen interviews and taking spots from others. Do I think this is "why the system is broken?" Absolutely not. Do I think it makes the system a little more competitive for the rest of us? Sure. But guess what? That's the way life works. Life is about competition and trying to make the most out of the opportunities we get.

Interviews are over. I genuinely hope everyone matches at their top choice. I hope the people who went on all these interviews found it beneficial and hope that everyone who feels they got chipped on interviews ends up being happy with wherever they match. At this point, what is done is done. No point in getting angry over it.

I will end with this. Because of the issues that people had with interviews this year, there is a sub-committee that is being formed to address the issue. There are actually already a few ways they think they can prevent the same thing from happening next year (e.g. limiting # of interview days, requiring earlier commitments for interviews, etc). The PD at my institute is actually one of the people that will be leading this committee.

Good luck and keep calm!

 

[em_2017]

Have an integrated interview system and limit the number one can hold at any given time. That way applicants can go on the ones they really want and release the others for people who are genuinly interested in a program.

Completely agree. I definitely had classmates that attended interviews they had no intention of ranking (4 year programs, etc) because they planned vacations around the fun spots.

Met a PD on the trail who suggested the same kind of system... it's not just us who are frustrated by it.

 

[mega_colon]

This seems like a fantastic level of coordination coming from a group of people who cant agree on using interview broker vs emailing a coordinator.

 

[NYCEM2017]

.

 

[zyx189]

This seems like a fantastic level of coordination coming from a group of people who cant agree on using interview broker vs emailing a coordinator.

Interviewbroker for life... so much better than Thalamus. I hate emailing the PC to schedule... it's the worst and makes it really annoying to switch dates when other interview invites roll in

 

[EMhawkeye]

Dude that's life. More qualified/desirable people are going to have more options, that's just the way things are. Furthermore, you're not "taking a spot from a person who is also qualified and genuinely wants to go there" if that program offered you an interview slot and didn't offer that hypothetical applicant one - the program leadership themselves are deciding who they want and don't want. Getting upset at someone for going on 17 interviews is silly and fruitless.

I picture the narrator of this post with a martini in one hand armed with a condescending smirk. Is there really a world of differnce in clinical abilities of one intern who got a 250 on step one and another who got 235? No.
Lucky people who have their pick should confirm the appropriate amount of interviews at their tops spots and release the rest to the other applicants who truelly want to go to those programs. It's called professional courtesy and not being a 2 year old.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

I picture the narrator of this post with a martini in one hand armed with a condescending smirk. Is there really a world of differnce in clinical abilities of one intern who got a 250 on step one and another who got 235? No.
Lucky people who have their pick should confirm the appropriate amount of interviews at their tops spots and release the rest to the other applicants who truelly want to go to those programs. It's called professional courtesy and not being a 2 year old.

Says the person whining about things almost entirely out of their control. Please grow up.

 

[RockFlag&Eagle]

I go to school in the northeast, grew up on the west coast my whole life before medical school, did an away rotation in CA and did not get a single invite on the west coast except for where I rotated. Did anyone else have this experience? I see a lot that everyone says to do an away rotation in the region you want interviews but that didn't work out for me.

Before everyone asks, I got an honors and top 10% on my SLOE from that away program. I got plenty of interviews in the northeast, but this regional bias was very real for me. Just wondering if anyone had the same experience.

Good luck everyone!

That is a bummer and I wonder if it's unique to CA/west coast...I am from a middle of the road program in the SE and did two aways in the NE. I had good luck with NE interviews despite having an average STEP 1. Either way, to the future applicants reading this: aways are fun, provide amazing perspective, give you an idea of what you value in a program, and allow you to meet cool people and enjoy another city for a month. It very well may just be a crapshoot but I would go for those aways in another region anyway. Just cross your fingers and know that it almost always works out if you bust your butt, have a solid attitude, and apply wisely.

 

[anonymous654]

ITT: overachievers attempting to rationalize their neuroses.

No reason to have 17 ranks unless you're couples matching.

 

[doggydog]

ITT: overachievers attempting to rationalize their neuroses.

No reason to have 17 ranks unless you're couples matching.

Why do couples get to have more ranks?

They already have life partners, wanting to match is just being greedy.

 

[tux4]

. I think the match should be more regulated like the soap. Have an integrated interview system and limit the number one can hold at any given time

NYC programs are actually talking about coordinating with each other and regulating interview invites. So if someone applies to all NYC programs for example, they only get 5-6 max.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[Cinematographer]

This is why I feel it's so important that programs be honest with students. One person from the program says one thing, the next person says something different. Keep in mind that I'm reporting what we were told directly by residents. There are no mix-ups here, if the numbers are inaccurate, it's because they were reported inaccurately by the residents. Yeah, 28 out of 21 days would be tough to justify, but I didn't say they were an intern. I'm guessing the ortho rotation was longer than 3 weeks when that person did it. If it's not uncommon for CU students to say that, what is it about the program or the rotation that makes them so salty? Even at the other programs with reputations for working more/harder than most, there doesn't seem to be the same level of animosity from those who have been through it. And I'm glad that you haven't been put through the ringer with the number of shifts you've been working so far, I hope it stays that way for you.

It's never been a month long rotation. Period. All consult service rotations (trauma surg, ortho, nsgy) are three weeks long.

Good luck.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

NYC programs are actually talking about coordinating with each other and regulating interview invites. So if someone applies to all NYC programs for example, they only get 5-6 max.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

Eh. Not a fan of that tbh.

If you're from NYC and dead set on staying, capping applicants at 5-6 interviews each forces you to apply to cities you really don't want to live in, and just makes the match worse for people in those geographical areas because it unnecessarily increases competition for interview spots

 

[EMapplicant2017]

*cough* move to application thread *cough*

Enough drama. Gimme rank lists.

 

[SamtheWise]

Eh. Not a fan of that tbh.

If you're from NYC and dead set on staying, capping applicants at 5-6 interviews each forces you to apply to cities you really don't want to live in, and just makes the match worse for people in those geographical areas because it unnecessarily increases competition for interview spots

I agree, and plus I feel like programs coordinating on applicants violates the "spirit of the match." Maybe a better solution would be to have it all regulated through interview broker. Interview broker could only allow students to hold 12-15 interviews (20 if they're couples matching), while keeping programs unaware of what applicants have interviews where.

 

[tux4]

I agree, and plus I feel like programs coordinating on applicants violates the "spirit of the match." Maybe a better solution would be to have it all regulated through interview broker. Interview broker could only allow students to hold 12-15 interviews (20 if they're couples matching), while keeping programs unaware of what applicants have interviews where.

A PD told me they were talking about it to limit the number of trips for interviews someone would have to make if they want to be in NYC. So all the interviews would be in a week or something like that..I forget exactly what he said. Also would limit amount of interviews that people are getting that have no interest in NYC and are just accumulating interviews for warm fuzzies.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[doggydog]

Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 240s, Step 2: 260s
EM rotations: P (P/F system)/?/? I was told they were very strong by interviewers.
Medical school region: South
Anything else that made you more competitive:
Top quartile of class, multiple interviewers mentioned strong personal statement. Non-traditional with some work experience.
[No research or advocacy.]

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Overall fit
Average yearly temperature above 70 degrees (applied mostly Southeast, Texas)
"Family" feel with happy residents
Quality of training
Reputation
International opportunities

1) Orlando Health
++ Completely fell in love with this program. Sal is the best, most supportive PD and the residents are the most impressive, fun, and cohesive group I came across. County pathology with a community feel and strong academics. Top-notch faculty. I was surprised by how much I loved Orlando... it's an hour from the ED to the closest beach, door to door, and I found the city itself to be charming. Well-established program; I know I'll be prepared to be a badass community EP or academician if I match here.

- - 12-hour shifts.

2) Maricopa
++ Very resident-friendly County program with 1-month elective each year. Medical Spanish elective in Costa Rica. PD and residents seem really fun. I applied here on a whim--it was my first time in Phoenix and it was love it first sight. 296 days of sunshine/year.

- - Didn't get to talk to many residents at the pre-interview dinner as they were all hungover from an event the night before, but those I talked to during the interview day lunch seemed very chill and happy there.

3) UAB
++ Incredibly strong academic program with down-to-earth residents and an awesome PD in Dr. Edwards. Interns start running an 11-bed pod alongside an attending by their 2nd or 3rd month if I recall correctly. Residents seem very happy. They work less hours than the national average for EM residents but see more patients per hour. They have "tracks" (ultrasound, global health, etc.) to allow for some specialization during residency. I love Birmingham and its beautiful parks and friendly people.

- - A lot of off-service rotators, which is probably par for the course in an academic setting. This was my #1 for a long time and I really can't think of any other cons!

4) Palmetto
++ Came away shocked by how much I loved this program. It has that family feel like Orlando, and has a unique hours bank system that allows you to do things that probably wouldn't be possible in any other program (i.e. travel around the world during residency!) If you're interested in global health, this is the place to be. PD is very involved and supportive of residents.

- - I hate to say it, but if this program wasn't in Columbia, SC it would be fighting for my #1 spot.

5) JPS-Ft. Worth
++ Newer County program with a lot to offer. Some of my favorite residents I came across on the interview trail. Super outgoing, fun people who seem very happy and love their program. Ft. Worth is my favorite city in Texas. Residents receive custom-made cowboy boots as gift... this may or may not have been a deciding factor for me

- - A lot of talk about "cowboy medicine" and "being your own cowboy." I love cowboys, but wasn't sure how I felt about that philosophy in regards to academics. A couple of my interviews were awkward.

6) UT Southwestern
++ Brand new Parkland ED is top notch. Happy residents. 2-month all expenses paid international elective in NEW ZEALAND--they pay for you to become certified to practice in that country... pretty incredible.

- - For me, I fear that I might get lost in the crowd here. Biggest residency class (~22 residents/class), biggest ED in the country, etc. I had a resident say that she had never worked with some of the core faculty there because there are so many attendings employed. Some may like the hugeness but it isn't my preference personally. Questionable relationship with trauma department. Dallas is okay but not a lot to do outdoors.

7) Christus Spohn
++ Unopposed residency in a sleepy beach town. Fantastic, dedicated faculty and very happy residents. Great place to train to be a community doc. The beach. Average annual low of 63 degrees.

- - Unsure of job market outside of TX. Level 2 trauma center. Love the beach, but not sure how I feel about Corpus as a city.

8) Wake Forest
++One of the oldest programs. 8 hour shifts, good work-life balance, very strong academics. Winston Salem was surprisingly charming but perhaps better for those with families.

- - One of the residents explained that they are "very married" and "very fertile" which can be good or bad. PD seemed somewhat aloof during our interview.

9) Medical College of Georgia
++ Solid program, working to create focus on global health. Really liked the APD. Was sick during this interview so that's about all I got. Fraction of each class made up of army residents, which could provide a unique perspective.

- - Having to rotate through VA due to army affiliation. When I asked what people like to do in Augusta, the response always involved "well, we're just over an hour from Columbia, SC!"

10) Scott and White
++ Fantastic program, especially for those with families. Love the PD here. Beautiful new ED, and residents make a LOT of $$ moonlighting.

- - 12-hour shifts. TEMPLE, TX. If this program wasn't in Temple it would be much, much higher.

11) UT Houston
++ All the advantages of being in the biggest medical center. Solid program but left with some significant concerns.

- - I didn't click that well with the PD here for some reason. When I asked him about international opportunities, he said they used to be top dog for that but now they aren't, and he seemed frustrated as he explained to me that they keep losing faculty who are into global health and they are not actively trying to replace them. Advertised getting "right around average" on in-service exams.

12) UT San Antonio
++ Great up and coming County program, and Dr. Muck is the real deal. Very, very sick patient population with unique pathology due to proximity to border. Newly hired graduate of UAB's global health fellowship will be starting one for San Antonio. Nice new facilities, including ultrasound suite for practicing.

- - San Antonio--I can't really see myself there. Still a newer program that has undergone some major changes recently.

13) UT Nashville
++ PD is former AAEM president and has a great vision for this new program. Unopposed residency with huge emphasis on real world EM and training good community doctors. Community hospital with private physicians, GORGEOUS hospital.

- - Program only has 2 classes so far with 8 residents/class. Not a trauma center. Technically based out of Murfreesboro, which is pretty small. Multiple off-site rotations in Chattanooga, Memphis, Nashville.

14) Arkansas
++ Seems like program is becoming stronger in recent years. Sick patient population.

- - I didn't love Little Rock.

15) UF Gainesville
++ ER with huge catchment area, residents get scribes during 2nd and 3rd year.

- - The residents seemed a bit clickish here, and I got a strange vibe from some of my interviewers. I'm sure it was just an off day, though!

Other:
Invited but did not interview: Georgetown, Kentucky, LSU Shreveport, LSU Baton Rouge, Jackson Memorial, Grand Strand, Greenville, UF-Jacksonville, Oklahoma, UT-Memphis, Eastern VA, Mississippi

Waitlisted: OHSU

Rejections/Silent Rejections: Vandy, Emory, Stanford, MUSC, Baylor, UT Austin, Carolinas, Duke, LSU NOLA, UNC, UT-Chattanooga, USF, UVA

 

[doggydog]

Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: ~220, Step 2: ~230
EM rotations: P (P/F), HP
Medical school region: Mid-Atlantic
Anything else that made you more competitive:
Research (niche, very unusual), very strong leadership role throughout medical school. Mostly Honors 3rd year, strong Dean's letter (see: above leadership).

What made me less competitive: Not 100% sure I wasn't boned on one of my SLOE's. Mediocre (at best) M1-M2 grades.

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
3 >4, avoiding 12s, "fit" with residents. Moonlighting opportunities and/or community focus (don't see myself in academics). Geography/SO's preference.

1) St. Luke's Bethlehem
Pros: Definitely came out of left field for me. Very laid back, self-directed atmosphere, in both the ED and didactics. (No zones in the ED-- you pick up whichever patients you want and present to ANY attending available.) 10h shifts scheduled such that there are few true overnights (though plenty go into the wee hours). Residents were easy going; plenty of chances to bond. Very chill PD & great coordinator. Good moonlighting opportunities in affiliated rural/community sites. Lots of opportunities for airways as an upper-level as a part of the code blue team.

Neutral: PICU/PEM at St. Christopher's in Philadelphia 2nd year. Currently phasing out AOA residency so there will be PGY-4s through 2019.

Cons: A bit bro-heavy (current PGY-1 is all male). Some off-service rotations seemed scut-heavy.

2) University of Louisville
Pros: An oldie and a goody. Plenty of autonomy, TONS of trauma, which you run as a PGY-2. Scribes as an upper level. Best resident camaraderie among classes I saw on the trail. Very inclusive of SO's. Good COL. Bourbon Trail! Internal & external moonlighting opportunities (urgent care ---> rural).

Neutral: No PICU month (tiny humans scare me).

Cons: Not in love with presenting to upper-levels as an intern.

3) Rush
Pros: Trauma at Cook. Great simulation program. Opportunities for involvement in disaster medicine. 3*/4* referral center, so some really unusual pathology. A little hesitant about ranking a new program so high, but attendings are used to teaching (Cook County residents, ultrasound fellows, off-service residents). Brand-new ED. Fantastic ultrasound program.

Neutral: Very metrics-focus (though supposedly will de-emphasize with in-house EM residents).

Cons: New program. Possible turf wars with everyone (including Cook residents for Trauma). Community site (Rush Copley in Aurora) is a long commute away. Heard varying numbers on actual ED volume (45k all the way to 70k) on interview day. Also, saying that your ED spiked in volume after the ACA was enacted is no longer a selling point...

4) Palmetto Health
Pros: Hours Bank. Every resident needs ~4500h to graduate. You can manipulate your schedule however you see fit, as long as you hit your mark. (Want to ______ PGY-3 year? Work an extra shift or two each month for the first two years and then take it easy! Or vice-versa.) Definitely the strongest ultrasound program I saw on the trail. New tracks program you can apply for as an upper level to tailor your education (basically every fellowship in EM is a potential track).

Neutral: Big on international medicine. (I'm not, but it would be cool to go to Hawaii as a 3!)

Cons: No real community site (1 mo. PGY-3 is spent at a hospital less than a mile away). Columbia is "flat and boring"-- SO. 2 floor months (peds, cards). Heard rumors of problems with ancillary staff from the residents.

5) Penn State
Pros: Really interesting pathology (local Amish population). Wide catchment area for trauma. Integrated peds, but chance to work with PEM faculty too. Community/obstetrics/MICU rotations in Harrisburg. Moonlighting at PSU games/ability to fly as a PGY-2. (Very big on pre-hospital medicine.)

Neutral: Pretty much how I felt about this program in general.

Cons: No admitting privileges. Hershey is a snooze-- would most likely live in Harrisburg. Many residents made it clear this was not the first (or second, or third...) place on their rank list.

6) Greenville Health System
Pros: High volume ED (100k+) with very sick population. Really enthusiastic, young/diverse faculty; PD from Vanderbilt. Clear that they've spent a lot of time preparing for residents (was accredited last cycle but chose not to take applicants). Emphasis on ultrasound and community practice. Greenville is a very young/up-and-coming town. Good opportunities for community medicine as a PGY-3.

Netural: EMS-heavy.

Cons: New program, concerns about future job/networking opportunities (particularly when compared to Rush and their affiliations). Would probably have ranked higher if was more established.

7) Drexel University
Pros: Tons of critical care. 3 community sites + HUH. Good simulation reputation. Lots of opportunities for leadership as the program rebuilds. Most down-to-earth (read: would have a beer with) PD on the trail. Lots of tox exposure, penetrating traumas.

Neutral: NICU rotation, lots of driving (need a car in Philly).

Cons: Still on probation. (Chair did talk to us about that. tl;dr residents complained to RRC that admin wasn't listening to them/no curriculum innovation. They're still cleaning house.) Some residents seemed chill, some seemed burnt out. 12s at HUH (which definitely needs the renovation they're talking about).

8) New York Presbyterian
Pros: Reputation/opportunities from the duel Columbia/Cornell name. Lots of sick patients at Columbia, best peds site on the trail (Morgan Stanley CH @ Columbia). Breadth of pathology between the two sites.

Neutral: Need to learn Spanish for Columbia site. Very little interaction with residents, so not sure how we gelled. (Pre-interview dinners aren't held each week-- not cool, guys.)

Cons: The 12s. The commute. The lack of traumas. ?need for 4th year. Acute Care Surgery/"rainbow (pager) weekend"-- just, no. No community sites + no moonlighting opportunities.

9) Crozer-Chester
Pros: Chester is constantly duking it out for highest murder-per-capita in the US-- lots of trauma!

Neutral: Most residents commute from Philly-- and 1st shift starts at 6am. (So you miss the traffic?)

Cons: Worst faculty interview I had. Probably the most malignant person I met on the trail; according to the residents, this person has rubbed many people the wrong way. Small class size (6), only in 2nd year.

10) St. John's Riverside (Yonkers)
Pros: Beautiful views from the hospital. 10% of shifts at Dobbs Ferry site (5 bed, single-coverage ED).

Neutral: Trauma at Jacobi in the Bronx.

Cons: Not in love with the curriculum (NICU + NeuroICU, and at Montefiore to boot). Chair is NOT EM trained. Never got a single question of mine directly answered on interview day. (Example -- Q: "Approximately how many pediatric resuscitations or airways do you see here each year?" A: "We have a lot of very high-acuity pediatric patients, so you shouldn't be worried...") Felt like they are going to struggle hardcore their first few years.

11) Lehigh Valley Health Network
Pros: You get to be an EM doc when you're finished!

Neutral: Most relaxed interview with a PD on the trail. Unopposed ICU months at community site.

Cons: Dual-accredited AOA program/majority DOs-- which shouldn't be a bad thing (in theory), but they're still a 4 year curriculum. 27 blocks in ED vs. 25 off (including vacation). Lots of floor months/unnecessary off-service rotations. Ultrasound curriculum is a joke.

Did not gel at all with the residents. Had some VERY negative interactions with the seniors at the social event-- was made to feel very out-of-place as a MD student. (I certainly hope this isn't what it's like for DOs applying ACGME!) Would not have ranked this place if I had a few more interviews. Considered not ranking it anyway, but SO made me.

Other:
Not ranking: Summa. (Would have been #5 FWIW.)

Waitlisted: GW

Rejected: Pretty much every program in the South + NYC.

I think I would have gotten more interviews if I had applied more heavily in my med school region, and/or applied to more rural places. (I got very little urban love-- looking at you, NYC!) It's hard to break out of where you go to medical school, even if you have strong ties (family, undergrad) in another region. C'est la vie-- there's always fellowship for warmer weather.


[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/COLOR]

 

[bananasinpijamas]

Wow!

What's it like being such a massive douche?

Very mature. I do apologize to OP for the "swimming/rolling on money comment", because for all I know OP is as poor as I am and he broke into his life savings for this tour. I do however still believe that the attitude of "I gotta get them all" does significantly affect programs and average or below average students. He clearly deserves those interviews, jeez he got 260+ on both step exams!! BUT if interviewing at 12 is not enough for this applicant who has his picks for interviews, what message is it sending to the average person? what effect does it have on the person who was next in line to get OP's 17th interview spot? I can assume OP is an intelligent med student who did his research in terms of programs, who did away rotations, it's not like we are going in blind for these interviews. The programs at the bottom of his rank lists are still pretty damn good programs that other applicants would have loved to interview at, but this person just had to see more and more programs. We are all out for ourselves, I get it, but I also don't see a point to going beyond 10-12 unless your dream school finally contacted you. I'm sorry my opinion is not popular in a sea of very successful applicants, but I am capable of relating to those who are affected by these issues. Hopefully a system comes about that limit these practices of interview hoarding and over-applying, but until then I guess we are stuck with this.

By the way, FOR NEXT YEAR applicants, >75% US GRADUATES GET ONE OF THEIR TOP 3 RANKED PROGRAMS, AND 12 INTERVIEWS PRACTICALLY GUARANTEE A MATCH. Anything more is highly diminishing returns.

 

[SamtheWise]

Very mature. I do apologize to OP for the "swimming/rolling on money comment", because for all I know OP is as poor as I am and he broke into his life savings for this tour. I do however still believe that the attitude of "I gotta get them all" does significantly affect programs and average or below average students. He clearly deserves those interviews, jeez he got 260+ on both step exams!! BUT if interviewing at 12 is not enough for this applicant who has his picks for interviews, what message is it sending to the average person? what effect does it have on the person who was next in line to get OP's 17th interview spot? I can assume OP is an intelligent med student who did his research in terms of programs, who did away rotations, it's not like we are going in blind for these interviews. The programs at the bottom of his rank lists are still pretty damn good programs that other applicants would have loved to interview at, but this person just had to see more and more programs. We are all out for ourselves, I get it, but I also don't see a point to going beyond 10-12 unless your dream school finally contacted you. I'm sorry my opinion is not popular in a sea of very successful applicants, but I am capable of relating to those who are affected by these issues. Hopefully a system comes about that limit these practices of interview hoarding and over-applying, but until then I guess we are stuck with this.

By the way, FOR NEXT YEAR applicants, >75% US GRADUATES GET ONE OF THEIR TOP 3 RANKED PROGRAMS, AND 12 INTERVIEWS PRACTICALLY GUARANTEE A MATCH. Anything more is highly diminished returns and very very expensive.

You make a good point, and I agree that it's frustrating seeing people interview at so many places. Applicants accepting too many interviews is a real issue, however I think it's difficult to criticize someone on a personal level for the system's failings. Remember, every system is designed to get exactly the results it gets. Mr./Mrs. 17 interviews probably wants to relocate to a city that fits them well, is an anxious high performer on top of feeling pressured by their Dean (who no doubt is pushing every student to apply to 40+ programs regardless of specialty), may not necessarily have a quality advisor at their home school who can guide them through the intricacies of programs as well as discuss what fits them best, and they're probably genuinely curious about the different program types. I say congratulations to this person, they clearly did well and are motivated to find a great place to train, however shame on the system that allows people to hoard interviews and cancel them last minute, shame on programs who send interviews to every 260+/AOA student without reading their apps, and shame on schools for not having better advisors.

 

[bananasinpijamas]

Dude that's life. More qualified/desirable people are going to have more options, that's just the way things are. Furthermore, you're not "taking a spot from a person who is also qualified and genuinely wants to go there" if that program offered you an interview slot and didn't offer that hypothetical applicant one - the program leadership themselves are deciding who they want and don't want. Getting upset at someone for going on 17 interviews is silly and fruitless.

YES they deserve more options!!! and from those great options they get to pick their top 12 interviews at very very good programs, that's what it should mean. It should not mean that they go on twice as many interviews as they need, that is just silly and fruitless.
For the record, I'm not discussing this because of my personal situation, I had 20 invites, most in CA. The system worked for me, but not as good for many equally qualified colleagues. Of course getting to know 20+ programs would be ideal, but how do you know the 21st isn't your golden ticket? We just can't see them all. No wonder everyone in this particular thread seems so cool with this aggressive interview process when everyone posting has 250-270s and 15+ ROLs.

 

[bruce denton]

So as my list has apparently caused a deal of controversy I just wanted weigh in and explain myself a little further.

I did not go on 17 interviews in order to ensure that I matched. I did it in an effort to find the program that would be "the best" for me. Where I would be the happiest for 3 or 4 years and become the best EM physician that I can be. Less than neurosis this was born out of an easy going nature, things tend to work out is my personal mantra. Even if I might be a little disappointment on the 17th I'm pretty sure if you asked me in 3 years "Are you happy?" my answer would be yes at any of the programs on my list. This was an exercise in maximizing, not finding that happiness.

It was never my intention to hold on to interviews, or take opportunities away from other applicants. I never held on to more interviews than I was going to attend. I made all of my cancellations/withdrawals in October. I did get off the wait list at one program in mid December and did not cancel anywhere. My remaining interviews were all in my pre-interview top 7 and I had already made travel arrangements. I was going to keep them.

I did take a selfish approach in that I treated interview season with the primary goal of finding the best program for myself without thinking about how a couple of extra interviews for me means a couple less interviews for someone else. You are right it does, this is truly a zero sum game. However this is one of if not the most important decisions I will ever make and I was going to do everything I could to make the right one. As for swimming in money, this is the only time in medical school I splurged. I haven't taken any cool trips, I buy store brand food, don't go out super often, and am generally very frugal. This was a worthwhile investment for me. We all have our own priorities.

As far as narrowing down the list prior to interviewing at all these places, could I have done a better job? Sure. I'll start out with one that's mostly on me. I never established a close personal relationship with an EM adviser. I met with one once and made a list of where to apply to and then didn't really pursue it after that. If I could do this again I would do a better job with my follow up and started earlier so we could have known each other better and had a more productive relationship.

Did I need to visit 5 county hospitals to decide that wasn't my ideal setting? No. But as you can see I have 2 in my top 10, it's not a deal breaker for me and I really like certain aspects of that training environment

Did I need to visit 9 states to figure out where I want to live? Absolutely. I'm generally very flexible and would be happy in the vast majority of places on my list and in the country at large, it was about finding the specific setting I think I would be the happiest. I also don't think you can truly evaluate how it would be to live in a given city without spending significant time there, even the day or two I had was much to short. I don't think there was any good way to write a place off on location alone without visiting.

--Good luck to everyone on the 17th! I hope everyone matches their #1 and I look forward to working with some of you this summer

 

[Lexdiamondz]

YES they deserve more options!!! and from those great options they get to pick their top 12 interviews at very very good programs, that's what it should mean. It should not mean that they go on twice as many interviews as they need, that is just silly and fruitless.

There's a difference between interviewing for the sake of matching, and interviewing for the sake of finding the right fit. I'll be honest, I also went on >15 interviews, and in that time my ranklist changed remarkably. There were amazing programs on the trail that I hadn't had on my radar at all earlier in the cycle, and programs that I originally thought I would like train at that I ended up being quite underwhelmed by. Going on that many interviews helped me figure out what I wanted in a program, what I valued in an institution and what was important to me regarding my colleagues who I would be spending most of the next 4 years with.

Does that make me or anyone else who interviewed at >12 places selfish? Maybe. However we did nothing underhanded, sneaky or acted in bad faith, and these were invitations extended to us by programs genuinely interested in us. There are people who got interviews at places I was interested that rejected me on the spot, or gave me nothing but radio silence for 3 months - who fxcking cares? We all worked hard and tried our best, why are you acting as if someone with more options suddenly owes you something? Life isn't fair.

 

[EMGui2017]

@bruce denton my entire top 3 rank list came from interview #12 and beyond. I am similar to you, I am laid back, I have very few wants except to maximize my happiness. I was genuinely excited to visit every program I interviewed at and took zero interviews out of neurosis or spite for fellow applicants.

I hope you found exactly what you were looking for, good luck on the 17th!

 

[tux4]

There's a difference between interviewing for the sake of matching, and interviewing for the sake of finding the right fit. I'll be honest, I also went on >15 interviews, and in that time my ranklist changed remarkably. There were amazing programs on the trail that I hadn't had on my radar at all earlier in the cycle, and programs that I originally thought I would like train at that I ended up being quite underwhelmed by. Going on that many interviews helped me figure out what I wanted in a program, what I valued in an institution and what was important to me regarding my colleagues who I would be spending most of the next 4 years with.

Does that make me or anyone else who interviewed at >12 places selfish? Maybe. However we did nothing underhanded, sneaky or acted in bad faith, and these were invitations extended to us by programs genuinely interested in us. There are people who got interviews at places I was interested that rejected me on the spot, or gave me nothing but radio silence for 3 months - who fxcking cares? We all worked hard and tried our best, why are you acting as if someone with more options suddenly owes you something? Life isn't fair.

I know people who also interviewed at places with zero intention of going and went to just basically say they attended more interviews or have a nice getaway in a place for a couple days. It pissed me off cause some of the places I was rejected from and would probably have ranked them high. I just hope this wasn't the case with a lot of other applicants. The system is def abused at times.

But if you are going on >15 places and are genuinely open to going to any of them, then I see no issue. I went on 13 and wish I had more to see how other programs were.


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