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[2016-2017] Emergency Medicine Rank Order List Thread

Discussion in 'Emergency Medicine' started by doggydog, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST Physician Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Nov 24, 2002
    I still stand by it. Either the list is total bull****, or this person, who spent so much (apparent) time to write it up, shows either a petty streak, or such bad judgment, that they would go out of their way, to increase effort, for no discernable, reasonable, evident, or logical reason.
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  3. westdescartes

    westdescartes 5+ Year Member

    Jun 6, 2012
    This is a sweet ROL and pretty much what I hope my future ROL will be! If the original poster reads this can I ask you a few questions about applying? Thanks so much! :D
  4. medmedman

    medmedman 7+ Year Member

    Dec 18, 2008
    What makes you say Dr. Manko was "forced" out of his role? My understanding is that he's been the PD for a long time and he wanted to assume a larger role in the GME. I'm also unaware of any major leadership changes either.
  5. maxwellwest

    maxwellwest 5+ Year Member

    Oct 8, 2012
    Hey Medmedman,

    While I was rotating there this summer I had a few of the senior residents approach me that the transition of Dr. Manko into another role within NYU was not as voluntary as it appeared and that he had no intentions of moving out of the PD position at this point in his career. According to the residents I spoke with, the switch was largely a surprise and that most of the residents and several of the faculty were opposed to the way things went down. As far as "lots of leadership changes" I misspoke and meant big leadership change due to the PD switch and the way it was handled. As far as I remember the ADPs aren't changing. Thanks for picking up on that mistake. Hope that helps clarify things.

    As an aside, for people looking to do an away rotation in NYC, NYU was awesome. You get county and academic exposure, phenomenal teaching, and get paired with a faculty mentor that you do 1/3 of your shifts with. My mentor from that rotation became a huge role in choosing where to apply for residency and making my rank list. The faculty's willingness to help and mentor all students who rotate at their program regardless of being a NYU student was impressive.

    neoevolution and medmedman like this.
  6. Epinephreus

    Epinephreus 2+ Year Member

    Jun 6, 2013
    I am going to voice a different opinion. These write-up's tend to be quite time-consuming and sometimes with >15-20 programs, it is difficult to write a narrative on all of them. Furthermore, at these points in the lists, the factors that separate programs are often personal and not something that needs to be permanently plastered on the internet. This person could have just as easily not posted the other places they interviewed, and then you would have never even known that these places were factors in their decisions. Personally, I think it is dramatic to call a person "petty" or having "bad-judgement" over this when we should simply appreciate the fact that they decided to share their ROL in the first place.
  7. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST Physician Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Nov 24, 2002
    My response is, "why bother?" Why, in ANY manner, would someone go out of their way to obfuscate something that is at the end? You don't even address my point. These people are NOT sharing their rank list - "alphabetical" or "no particular order" are NOT rank lists. They're simply lists, that do NOT reflect the spirit of the thread. Again, "why bother?" I said before that, even without the write up, which is, indeed, time consuming, the order shows something. And, as was demonstrated above, the LAST place on the list will mean something to someone. For one person, your last is someone else's first, and for another person, it's a butthurt PD.
  8. CliveStaples

    CliveStaples 5+ Year Member

    May 5, 2012
    I don't think his problem is that you don't do a write up for each of them (though obviously an analysis would be best). But if you're going to bother posting everything else that's on your rank list, at least give them an order. Or else it isn't a rank list.
    racerwad and Apollyon like this.
  9. alpinism

    alpinism Give Em' the Jet Fuel 5+ Year Member

    The problem is that they didn't actually share their ROL and instead posted half a ROL followed by a random list of programs.

    Posting places where you interviewed in random order serves no purpose and isn't helpful to anyone. Not only that but it actually takes more time to create a random interview list rather than just posting your original rank order list. If people are tired of writing narratives then just post your list without any narratives. Boom problem solved.
    racerwad and Apollyon like this.
  10. Epinephreus

    Epinephreus 2+ Year Member

    Jun 6, 2013
    1. Oh, okay I see.
    2. Haha

    A thought - perhaps as a forum, we could have a more standardized way of reporting a rank-list, consisting of aspects that are important for forth year medical students to use in evaluation of programs or looking for places to apply.
  11. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST Physician Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Nov 24, 2002
    The Google Forms is a great start. Baby steps, baby!
  12. gutonc

    gutonc No Meat, No Treat Administrator Physician PhD 10+ Year Member

    Mar 6, 2005
    A fibrotic stroma
    You could start by posting the list in the order you ranked them.
  13. MrBrightside167

    MrBrightside167 SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 5+ Year Member

    Apr 11, 2012
    Where this you get this info? I don't remember hearing this during interview day/pre-interview dinner. According to the curriculum on their website, residents have trauma blocks as interns and PGY3s.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
  14. Onscene

    Onscene 5+ Year Member

    Oct 23, 2011
    Not being on the trauma team would mean not responding to traumas during regular ED months intern year. Trauma blocks would of course be a different story.
  15. SpacemanSpifff

    SpacemanSpifff 5+ Year Member

    May 8, 2012
    Just to reiterate from @CliveStaples...
    ROL's here. Discussion of other stuff should take place in other places.
    EazyE1907, EMGui2017, Psai and 7 others like this.
  16. doggydog

    doggydog Woof. 2+ Year Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: 240, Step 2: 250, Comlex 1/2 600s
    EM rotations: Aways only P/F, but strong SLOES (I think?)
    Medical school region: Midwest - DO
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    Got a lot of comments about international experiences, "good SLOES," and an "interesting PS." Also had healthcare job before medical school. Top 1/3 in 1st and 2nd year, average 3rd and 4th year. Only two honors.

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    location, perceived strength of program, resident happiness, shift length/amount per block, larger class size, elective/international opportunities, interview day interactions. Also couples matching, so some of these are influenced by that process even before SO's input. Urban>Rural, County>community>academic . Applied to ~60 programs because of DO/couples match.

    1) UTSW -
    Fell in love during my interview here. Loved the residents. Nobody else has a margarita machine at their interview dinner that I know of. County population plus every resource you could want. Tons of procedures, relaxed schedule with 18 10s with 2 hours of overlap intern year. Huge volume and awesome childrens experience. Also love DFW area. Great reputation in the world of emergency medicine.

    2) JPS -
    Procedure heavy, liked how they organized the ED into medicine and trauma sections. County hospital with tons of volume. Same childrens experience as UTSW. Seems like a program on the rise. Awesome faculty and residents. PD very dedicated to developing the program. Education fellow seems to be making great changes to curriculum. Residents were very happy.

    3) UT Austin -
    I think Austin is the coolest city I've ever traveled to. Very young, dog friendly, walkable downtown, great outdoor activities nearby. Newer residency, but all of the residents I spoke with at the interview dinner and on interview day loved it there. Urban population. PD is very enthusiastic and interested in developing a culture of leaders.

    4) Maricopa -
    Awesome, down to earth residents and great clinical training. 20 9s as an intern. Burn rotation is unique. Phoenix offers many outdoor and urban opportunities. Some residents drive down to Rocky Point in Mexico for cheap vacations. PD is awesome and very approachable. Has some question marks with upcoming Creighton merger.

    5) AZ South -
    Amazingly approachable PD. Dinner was at her house and her husband was handing out IPAs from their homemade double kegerator. Amazed at the amount of international opportunities available and supported here. Also go out of their way to teach Spanish to those who aren't speakers already. Small class size scared me (6), but there is a lot of interaction with University campus residents (another 18), and residents can swap shifts freely between the two campuses. In Tucson, so smaller city than others above.

    6) EVMS -
    Very balanced Program that struck me as strong in every facet, but not necessarily exceptional in any. Norfolk is an interesting place, but residents can afford to live in Virginia Beach ~20 min away. Three different places to rotate with very different populations.

    7) UT Houston -
    Amazing trauma experience, tough to judge their relationship with trauma from my end. Splits time between main private hospital and county hospital.

    8) USF -
    A program similar to EVMS above in that they are very well rounded, but work 12s. Tampa is awesome, however. PD seems very supportive in starting international opportunities. All rotations at one hospital.

    9) UMKC -
    Strong county program in KC. Great pathology. Awesome dinner, fun/happy residents. Leadership seems hesitant to make certain changes (IM floor and CCU - which most 3 year programs are trying to remove.) Got kind of a weird vibe there on interview day. Can't quite describe it.

    10) UF Jax -
    Extremely strong/confident residents. PD and assitant PD very down-to earth and honest about application/standing with them. Residents work HARD. Truly county with crazy pathology.

    11) Texas Tech -
    Work 12s, but have amazing schedule opportunity for 5 days off on every EM rotation. Weird interview day with Oculus VR. No international opportunities

    12) KUMC -
    Newer program, lots of money, decent volume, but lots of ambulance diversion hours. Sounds like that may change (hopefully) with completion of new tower. May help bring some more interesting pathology in. KC is awesome, but worried about potential job opportunities after residency. Most stay in KC/rural areas surrounding the city.

    13) DMC Sinai Grace -
    My favorite of the Detroit programs. Most penetrating trauma in Detroit area. Great volume and pathology. Residents seemed happy.

    14) St John Detroit -
    Very strong program in East Detroit. Similar to Sinai Grace in my opinion. Mostly unopposed.

    15) Western Michigan -
    Awesome EMS, critical care experience. Two hospital system. APD has many connections, awesome sim center. City great for beer drinkers. Kalamazoo has like 12 breweries.

    Rest of List:
    Vidant, CMU, Mt Sinai Miami Beach, SLU

    Didn't include 2 that SO didn't receive interviews near

    Rejected from: UNC, OHSU, Carolinas, UW, Scott & White, NM, AZ University campus, Temple, Kaiser Perm, Thomas Jeff, Denver, Wake, Utah, Crozer, South Carolina

    Declined interview from Rochester, LSU, Grand Strand

    Waitlisted at Baylor and Jackson Memorial

    Silent rejection from rest
    MelMcT2009 likes this.
  17. doggydog

    doggydog Woof. 2+ Year Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: 265, Step 2: 270, Step 2 CS: Pass
    EM rotations: HP/H
    Medical school region: Mid-Atlantic
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    Grades and scores. Presumably SLOEs were good because I got a decent number of interviews...they weren't really mentioned by many interviewers honestly. PS was also brought up a few times. Quality headshot for ERAS?

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    Location, good/varied pathology, fit with residents, quality of faculty teaching, emphasis on work-life balance.SO and I don't really care for big cities. 3 > 4 however 4 not the end of the world, wanted to avoid 12s if at all possible. Didn't care too much about prestige or fellowships since I want to do community EM. As interviews went on, realized I valued programs where EM is one of the strongest residencies in the hospital and isn't neglected or dumped on and doesn't get procedures stolen by other residencies.

    This is what my list would look like if I were single, actual list is a little different as SO preferred to remain closer to family. Thought giving my personal list would be more helpful to future applicants. Also will be posting individual program impressions in the next few weeks since those were really helpful to me during the application process.

    1) Temple University
    Loved this program. Pathology and acuity are amazing. North Philadelphia is a poor area, so patients unfortunately have tons of social issues and do not generally have access to primary care and therefore come in really sick. Tons of penetrating trauma = tons of procedures...chest tubes and even thoracotomies. Main ED has county feel but more resources. Rotations at other sites (Jeanes and Episcopal) seem like a good additions to main Temple ED experience. Work 10s as intern, 8s as senior. Combined longitudinal Peds at St. Chris and blocks at CHOP so no shortage of Peds exposure. Solid ICU experience with 5 months, burn ICU sounds awesome. Faculty are great, had some really enjoyable interviews. Loved the residents. They all seemed really happy and had great things to say about each other and the program. N64 in resident lounge. Monthly resident night out where ED is covered by faculty and residents get to hang out. EM is one of the stronger, more-respected residency programs in hospital.

    Neutral: Dr. McNamara does have a poker face in interviews. Feel like you could tell him you just torched his car and he'd look up, raise his eyebrows, say "uh huh", scribble some notes, and ask another question. It was kind of funny actually.

    Cons: Limited patient diversity, >90% are black. Maybe not enough community, bread and butter ED experience. Not sure how I feel about template shift schedule (2 day, 2 evening, 2 night, 2 off) as it seems like you work more days than at other places, don't have many weekends off, and have to transition from days to nights frequently. Philadelphia isn’t my favorite city but I could tolerate living in Manayunk or Roxborough.

    2) Christiana
    Really hard to decide between here and Temple for #1. Maybe should have had this at #1, but too late now. This is an amazing program and I was blown away on interview day. The Christiana ED is huge and gorgeous. Everything seems to run smoothly so despite crazy volume you don't have to deal with BS and get to learn instead. Acuity and pathology are great. No surgical subspecialty residencies, so all ortho, ophtho, etc. is yours. Wilmington ED is a good inner-city, community experience as well. Shifts are 9s with 1 hour overlap, except nights which are straight 8s. Interns do 20 shifts/month and there's 1 block of nights per year so other months have few nights. Peds and PICU at DuPont, longitudinal Peds shifts. Solid ICU experience with 5.5 months. No off-service BS rotations. U/S seems strong as well. 2 elective months and 1 teaching month. Also has an admin block which I like, as admin might be something I’d like to do in the future. Residents were laid back and definitely happy with the program. Faculty and PD seem great as well. Run by a private group, DFES which would be helpful for learning about the business side of EM. Program has good reputation. EM is easily the strongest program in the hospital.

    Cons: Did not care for Delaware and really don't want to commute down 95 from PA. SO did not like location either. Other than that, no real cons, would be very happy here.

    3) St. Luke’s Bethlehem
    Definitely a hidden gem program. Community program but does have a branch of Temple Medical School so a bit academic too. Pathology and acuity seem relatively good; the Lehigh Valley is more diverse than most people realize so you do see a mix of rural patients transferred in, suburbanites, elderly people, and a more inner-city type crowd. Acuity/pathology obviously not at the level of Temple or Christiana but you would definitely see enough and be well-trained here. The main hospital in Bethlehem is modern and totally updated. ED was also pretty nice. Shifts are 10s and you don’t work many nights though many evening shifts do extend into the early hours. No Ophtho residents to take eye procedures or Anesthesia residents to take airways. Ortho residency program is small, relatively new, and only comes to the ED when called or if residents are in conference. Great curriculum, little off-service. 2.5 months of electives. ICU experience is good with 5.5 months. Main hospital sees 20% peds patients, so you get longitudinal experience. Also do blocks of Peds EM and PICU at St. Chris as PGY-2. Great moonlighting at smaller St. Luke’s community sites and moonlighting is encouraged by the PD! Pretty awesome. Residents were fun to talk to and very happy. All had great things to say about the program. Dr. Melanson, the PD, seemed like a great guy who really looks out for residents. EM seems to be the strongest program in the hospital which is also a plus. SO and I love the area, and it is close to my family and SO’s family so the location is ideal for us.

    Cons: Not as big of a name in EM. Acuity and pathology might be a bit less than some other places on my list. Peds acuity might suffer as Lehigh, a nearby program, has a dedicated Peds ED and PICU while St. Luke’s does not. Again, few cons. Would be very happy here.

    4) Cooper
    Pros: Very similar to Temple. In fact, most residents I met at either place wound up deciding between Temple and Cooper. Camden is a disaster of a city with tons of crime and poverty, but this leads to great acuity and pathology. Cooper ED (and the whole hospital) is really nice though. Shifts are 9s with 1 hour overlap except for 12s on the weekends. The weekend 12s pay off though, as they strive to give residents 2 free weekends per month which is great. Longitudinal Peds in PGY-2 and PGY-3 after Peds EM block in PGY-1. Great trauma experience as it is the only Level 1 center for all of South Jersey and Camden sees plenty of penetrating trauma. 6.5 months ICU. Chair is fantastic and all of the faculty who interviewed me were incredibly nice. Residents were a great bunch and clearly very happy. EM is a well-respected program in the hospital and there are no issues with other services taking procedures.

    Cons: Camden. Would not want to live in NJ or center city Philly really. Not sure how feasible it would be to commute from more suburban type areas in PA. See your usual minor traumas in ED months but more serious traumas are surgery run and really only seen in your trauma months. Didn’t really gel with the PD in the interview. Still would be happy here.

    5) Lehigh Valley
    Pros: Rotated here and had a great experience. Maybe I just missed it, but the residents I worked with all seemed to like the program. Did not feel unwelcome in any way as an MD student. Pathology and acuity are solid, as I said before the Lehigh Valley is a more diverse area than most people think. ICU experience seemed really good. Most faculty were great to work with. PD is a super nice guy. Moonlighting is available to (somewhat) soften the blow of losing out on a year of attending salary. SO and I like the area.

    Cons: 4 years. Work a lot of shifts and even as a 4th year you still work a lot. Floor months are of questionable utility. Still would be happy here.

    6) Penn State
    Pros: Good volume and acuity due to wide catchment area. Mainly sick medical patients but see a fair amount of blunt trauma. Rotate at Pinnacle in Harrisburg for urban/community experience. Strong EMS with Life Lion flight program. Great Peds experience with longitudinal shifts; Penn State is only Level 1 Peds center between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Shifts are 9s with 1 hour overlap. Interns work 22 shifts/month. New PD seemed pretty good. Moonlighting is allowed. Hershey is a nice small town but not too far from cities.

    Cons: Many residents made it clear that this wasn’t their 1st (or even 2nd) choice. Didn’t gel with residents, though they seemed nice. Also didn’t gel with some interviewers. Signout apparently isn’t always very quick and used to take hours per residents. Ortho takes tons of procedures. EM only does airway on level 1 or 2 traumas. EMS isn’t really my interest.

    7) UPMC/Pitt
    Pros: Amazing reputation in EM. Love that they rotate at a variety of hospitals, from more academic Presby to Mercy for county-type experience. Multiple rotation sites ensures a variety of pathology, from crazy complex to bread and butter. EMS is among strongest in nation, “Jeep” sounds awesome. ICU experience is great. Children’s see very sick kids so Peds seems solid. Reputation allows grads to do almost anything: get great community jobs, fellowships, or academic jobs. Liked the residents, who were happy, laid back, and diverse. PD and faculty were very nice as well. Pittsburgh seemed like a nice, affordable city with plenty to do.

    Cons: Pittsburgh, SO and I don’t know anyone out there, it’s far from family, and the climate is awful. U/S could be stronger. Don’t like that Peds is in 2 week blocks…why can’t they just do longitudinal shifts? Work 22 10s per month as an intern. Definitely a workhorse program but not at all malignant. At the end of the day, EMS isn’t really my thing so the fact that it is so emphasized is a negative.

    8) Geisinger
    Pros: Well-established program. Surprisingly decent volume due to many transfers and wide catchment area. Shifts are 9s. Peds exposure seems good. 6 months of ICU. Residents were all really happy and lived pretty well (owning houses, nice vacations) since COL is so cheap. Close relationship with attendings who are all laid back and good teachers per residents. PD was a nice guy who would look out for residents. EMS is strong, you start flying as PGY-1 and aren’t just an observer. Danville is a nice, quiet town with plenty of outdoor activities.

    Cons: EMS is not my area of interest (see a pattern?). Danville is nice but too remote for me and SO. Don’t like that so much volume is from transfers. Wonder whether I would see enough pathology. A good program, just not for me.

    9) Drexel
    Pros: Rotate at multiple hospitals (Hahnemann, Mercy Fitz, Mercy Philadelphia, Roxborough for community, and St. Chris for Peds) so you see a variety of patients/pathology. ICU experience sounds amazing with 6 months of EM-run ICU at Mercy. New PD is a great guy who I think will help to restore program to its previous standard. Interviewers were all great. Residents mostly seemed happy from what I saw.

    Cons: Probation. They were really open about this at my interview day, with chair, PD, and residents all addressing it but they still won’t find out if they’re off probation until April. Program reputation has really taken a hit in recent years. A few residents seemed unhappy. All of PGY-2 away from main site, though Mercy system sounds like a great experience. Not sure how I like the 2 days, 2 evening, 2 night, 2 off schedule at main ED. 12s at Mercy sites.

    10) Maryland
    Pros: Amazing reputation in EM. Grads can get jobs/fellowships of their choice. PD really emphasizes producing leaders in EM. Residents were all clearly very smart and involved. Rotate at a variety of sites to get exposure to different patient populations/pathology. Prince George’s, their community site, sounds like a great experience in particular. Trauma at STC. Trauma Anesthesia rotation seems like a really valuable rotation. Quality didactics with quarterly cadaver lab and lectures based on recent journal articles. Baltimore surprisingly livable and nice, at least the parts where residents live.

    Cons: Interview with PD was kind of uncomfortable. Too academic as 50% of grads do academics on average. Do 12s mostly, and those typically turn into 13s or 14s per residents. Residents seemed tired. Very poor resident turnout to dinner…definitely a red flag. Have to commute in crappy Maryland traffic to Children’s National for Peds. After some thought, don’t like the thought of only seeing significant trauma on STC rotations. STC also seems to be Surgery-centric. SO and I don’t know anyone or have family near Baltimore, so location is a net negative.

    11) Hopkins
    Pros: Residents were significantly more happy (and less tired) here than at Maryland. Rotate at 3 hospitals (main JHU, Bayview, and Howard County) which provides exposure to a variety of patient populations/pathology. Strong off-service given Hopkins name. Trauma no longer at STC, JHU sees plenty of trauma including high % of penetrating. Still do trauma Anesthesia at STC. Peds is longitudinal for PGY-2 and PGY-3. 4th year at least seems worthwhile as you work attending hours and choose a niche (“FAST”) within EM.

    Cons: 4 years. Work 12s as PGY-1 and PGY-2 and there is no overlap so residents are usually there 1-1.5 hours after shift to tie things up. Very academic and I got the sense that residents are gently pushed into academics as only a few grads do community each year. Though residents were nice, I didn’t really fit with them. Peds in blocks as PGY-1 and only 2 weeks as PGY-4. Only 4 months ICU as of now. Worried that the strength of other departments might make EM less respected. Maybe a slight air of “we’re Hopkins therefore we’re awesome” on interview day. Baltimore for reasons listed above.

    12) Jefferson
    Did not really get a great feel on interview day. I didn’t fit with current PD or incoming PD, but the other faculty seemed cool. Though I like the idea of multiple rotation sites, Jefferson takes it a bit too far with so many sites that are pretty far apart. Work 12s as intern. Worried that other departments, i.e. Ortho and Neuro, might be too strong relative to EM. Do not like location in Center City. Residents seemed okay, just not my people for whatever reason.

    13) Rutgers RWJ
    Got a weird vibe on interview day. Probably the worst interviews of the entire trail; many were uncomfortable. ED is small and dated though there are plans for a new one. Bizarre EMRs, have separate ones for charting and orders. Work all 12s with no overlap. Only 4 months of ICU and Peds is in blocks for PGY-1/PGY-2. Liked the residents but the class size is small. No moonlighting allowed at all, which isn’t a dealbreaker but isn’t great either. SO and I are do not care for the location in NJ.

    14) Crozer-Chester
    The program is just too new, as they are on their first PGY-1 class. It seems like Crozer sees a ton of pathology. Shifts are 9s with 2 morning, 2 evening, 2 night, 2 off format which I don’t really like. Peds will be in blocks. Only 4 ICU months. Residents hadn’t done ICU or other rotations yet so it was unclear how strong off-service will actually be. Met only a few residents but the few that were there seemed okay. PD was not great but not terrible either; other faculty members were also decent. Overall I think this program has potential but is just too new for me to rank high.

    15) Hackensack
    Rotated here and just didn’t have a great experience. I didn’t fit with the residents, though they were mostly nice. Some attendings were decent teachers while others acted like I (and even the residents) didn’t exist. Work some 12s. ED is not adequately staffed or designed for the volume it sees. The PD, Dr. Finefrock, is probably the biggest pro as he is enthusiastic, a great resident advocate, and has a clear vision for making this a great program. SO and I do not like location at all. COL is too high.

    Decided on EM rather late and I didn’t have great EM advising. Applied to 40 programs from mid-Atlantic down to FL, avoided NY and New England. In total, I received 26 invites and 14 rejections, although many rejections were silent. Regional bias is real. I got plenty of love from the Mid-Atlantic, but not so much from NC, GA, or FL. At the end of the day, I’m happy everything turned out so well and that I got to interview at many great programs.

    Declined/canceled interviews: George Washington, Orlando, Carolinas, Wake Forest, Morristown, Rutgers NJMS, Greenville/USC, Allegheny, Palmetto/USC, EVMS, VCU

    Rejected: Georgetown, UCF, UF Jax, USF, Emory, Medical College of Georgia, Duke, UNC, Newark Beth Israel, Einstein Philadelphia, Penn, MUSC, UVA, VA Tech
    RockFlag&Eagle likes this.
  18. doggydog

    doggydog Woof. 2+ Year Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: 220s, Step 2: 230s, fail CS once but passed before apps submitted
    EM rotations: H/HP/P
    Medical school region: Puerto Rico
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    Rotated at 3 well known academic EM institutions

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    Left blank

    1) Utah -
    Loved the PD and my mentor Dr. Dahle who played a big role in helping me create this rank list, rotated here so I felt very comfortable with the large ED, the faculty were for the most part supportive of education and teaching during each patient, residents get great benefits, have heard they work less shifts than what is noted (under the table)

    2) Vanderbilt -
    Rotated here as well, have heard enough about the positives of this program by dozens of people on this thread this year so I will just talk about the cons, in that the program is very white as many people say, not that it's a bad thing, however I am not and would rather have some more diversity

    3) Univ. of Oklahoma -
    Game changer, didn't see this program being high at all, loved both of their hospitals and the PD is the chilliest dude out there, I actually am one of few people that are a fan of 12 hour shifts for less days working which they follow here, Tulsa is a growing town with good night life and young professional scene (for us single people)

    4) Univ of Maryland -
    Rotated here as well but the residents always seemed to be way too tired, the shock trauma is obviously the coolest part of this program but not sure how much a month or two of this can make up for the rest of the months

    5) SIU -
    Nice little program in Springfield with just 6 residents a class where they know everything about every resident which for me, I appreciated the closeness of all the residents to each other and their outings to the wilderness for hunting/fishing so frequently.

    6) University of Missouri
    7) UCLA-Harbor
    8) Baylor Scott and White
    9) UT San Antonio
    10) USF
    11) Jackson Memorial
  19. doggydog

    doggydog Woof. 2+ Year Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: 240s, Step 2: 260s, CS Pass
    EM rotations: H/H/H
    Medical school region: East Coast
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    Step scores, SLOEs, all honors in 3rd year clerkships, strong leadership

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    Single guy here, not moving with SO or family. Really went with where I had the best feeling, relied on my "gut". County preferred, really think it gives the best training. Big cities preferred.

    1) Cook County
    Pros: Best feeling leaving this interview, except interviewing with 20 other people was wayyyyy overwhelming. Cant say enough good things about this program. The people here were awesome, best group of residents I met. The faculty gave me the same feel. The training is incredible, not surprised that you leave here being able to handle anything. See a lot of bread and butter emergency but zebras as well. People here are SICK SICK SICK. Also get to rotate through multiple community sites so you get that exposure and training. Cant beat the name of training at cook. Best resident dinner. Its always been a dream of mine to live in Chicago.

    Cons: IM floors, mehhhhhh whyyyyy. 4 years. Graduated responsibility. Weak peds exposure, but not really my thing anyway. Ancillary staff is rough. No resident benefits (that food allowance, sure, but its almost as if it comes out of your salary since it is so low. Have to pay for parking, how rude is that). Low salary. Chicago traffic.

    2) Boston Medical Center
    Pros: Such an awesome program. Man did I love it here. Great patient population, EM runs the show in the ED and traumas. Great resources-homeless population actually can get follow up and actually goes. Best residency in boston. Also rotate through a community site so get that exposure as well. The hospital seems to really care about their patients. Really loved the faculty and residents. Felt like I really connected with them. Some of the best training in the country.

    Cons: Honestly none, would rather live in chicago than boston or else this would be #1.

    3) Hennepin County
    Pros: Three years. Minny a very awesome city. This was a place I just had a great gut feeling. EM runs the show at this hospital. Hyperbaric chamber (how cool! never seen one of those before). Great patient population. STAB room rocks, though you wont have these resources anywhere else. Really liked the faculty I interviewed with. Great ultrasound training.

    Cons: Minny a very cold city. Rough winters. Didnt love the residents, not as down to earth as others I met which is important since I don't know anyone in minny. Grraaaddduuuatteddd responsibility.

    4) SUNY downstate/Kings County
    Pros: A lot of the same pros as cook county. Awesome patient population, sick sick sick. See above. Love brooklyn, really cool place.

    Cons: 4 years. Really didnt love the PD. Thought she was cold, and I feel its important to like your boss. Only 2 residents came to the dinner the night before which was eh.

    5) Denver Health
    Pros: Denver. Liked the residents. No doubt you get great training. Thought it was cool how the faculty came to hang out at the beginning of the day. Great patient population. Get to also experience academics at UC.

    Cons: That schedule, ROUGHHHHHHH. Weird that they tried to play it off as being okay, its definitely not. Thought this program was pretty overrated. Kept it high since it is a county and denver is cool.

    6) University of Michigan
    Pros: Such an awesome variety of sites, with a county site in Flint. Get exposed to so many different types of patients. Really drank the wolverine koolaid. Went to a big ten school for undergrad so felt right at home. FLIGHT!! Something I definitely wanted to experience in residency. Really loved the residents, thought the dinner the night before was fun and had good turn out. Residents are unionized and can fight for rights. Cool benefits.

    Cons: Ann Arbor not a huge city. Winters are cold. Commute to hurley. Maybe a little too academic. Always consulting and many other residencies on site.

    7) University of Maryland
    Pros: 3 years. From the Maryland area, so this felt like home. Awesome program. Great training. Great patient population. SHOCK TRAUMA THO. ED felt busy in a good way during the interview. Really liked the faculty I interviewed with. Could live in Baltimore-great summer city.

    Cons: 12 hour shifts, ugh. Shock trauma may have too many learners. I decided I really hate the idea of 12 hour shifts.

    8) Johns Hopkins
    Pros: Great interview day. Amazing patient population. Cant beat the name. Love the fourth year here. LOVED the PD. loved who I interviewed with.

    Cons: 12 hour shifts, ugh. Too academic. ED felt very quiet. Too many other residencies run the hospital, EM low on the totem pole. Hate that drive to their conference. Residents didnt seem as "chill" as I would like.

    9) GW
    Pros: DC is an awesome city. From the Maryland area, near home. Really really really liked the PD and faculty here. ED was busy, great mix of patients. See the homeless pop of DC and the senators. All people have primary care.

    Cons: I didnt feel like the fourth year was justified. I just didn't love the feel of the ED. DC cost of living wayyyy higher than baltimore.

    10) University of Illinois Chicago
    Pros: Such an awesome interview day. Really connected to the program leadership. Great site variety and mix of patient populations. Really liked the residents here. Mercy is like a county site which is awesome. So many alumni across the country and connections. It has always been a dream of mine to live in Chicago.

    Cons: Trauma seems like its run by trauma after talking to the residents. Commute to the sites with Chicago traffic. Too much moving around between sites.

    11) Advocate Christ
    Pros: Tied as best group of residents I met. Great faculty. Great PD. So so busy you will definitely get good training. Thrown into the fire. Peds ED at the hospital which is also getting redone. Can intubate from the first day you walk into the ED. The trauma here, wow. It has always been a dream of mine to live in Chicago

    Cons: Man, that commute from the city is horrendous. Not a fan of the one site thing. Really don't get a mix of patient populations. If you want to be a really good community ED doc, this is a great place. Feel like I would want to work here as an attending, not necessarily train here.

    12) Mount Sinai (just really didnt like this place)
    13) Harbor (not a cali guy)
    14) Stanford (not a cali guy)

    Declined interviews:
    -Wisconsin (didnt think this would be good training. Probably an awesome place to live but I had heard that there is really a lack of diversity of patient population. Wouldn't want to train here. Would want to work here)
    -resurrection (love chicago obviously, just didn't want to go to a place like this)
    -henry ford (decided no detroit)
    -detroit receiving (decided no detroit)
    -sinai grace (decided no detroit)
    -university of arizona (not living in tucson)

    Rejected: the ones that hurt--LA county, uwashington, carolinas, cincinatti, northwestern, uchicago, indiana, NY pres, NYU, mass gen, BI. others I felt w/e about
  20. DCEM


    Mar 5, 2017
    Would the student who posted with a step 1 in the 210s who ranked Denver #1 PLEASE PM me? I would be eternally appreciative. Thanks!
  21. irJanus

    irJanus Falling into a burning ring of fire Physician Faculty 7+ Year Member

    Jan 30, 2009
    How can peds 'not be your thing'?
    Word of advice - peds exposure is invaluable
  22. ichabodcrane

    ichabodcrane 2+ Year Member

    May 21, 2013
    Can anyone else confirm that Rutgers-RWJ residents work strictly 12s? Was under the impression shift lengths were varied. TIA.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017
  23. GonnaBeADoc2222

    GonnaBeADoc2222 7+ Year Member

    Oct 31, 2008
    Yeahhhh. I'd say you need good peds exposure.
  24. doggydog

    doggydog Woof. 2+ Year Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Below EM average for step 1 and 2, CS Pass
    EM rotations: P/P/P (Not sure! How does everyone know this?)
    Medical school region: Midwest
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    Leadership, heavy EM specific research during med-school (no prior experience or degree that allocated time for it), SLOEs - was told they were "strong" but then at my last interview of the season an interviewer asked me about a "negative" comment written in one of my SLOE's so now I've lost all sanity.

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    Location for family/husband, underserved population

    1) Henry Ford
    Pros: I think its clear from my list (Detroit>Everybody)- For me the perfect blend of academics if I want to keep pursuing research and all the bells and whistles that comes with Detroit. There is truly some great pathology. Interview day sell was impressive. Positive interaction with faculty and the residents gave me the "I want to be like you when I grow up" feeling. Nice sim center. Well known program. Hawaii is a possibility for a rotation. CC is popular. I like that they have fellowships and EM/IM, EM/IM/CC residents, adds in new perspectives and skills to resident group.

    Cons: Graded responsibility (no trauma bay in first year, no high acuity patients), can't remember but I think 20 shifts per month? A floor Nephrology month. Wish peds was stronger, the residents admitted this was a weakness.

    2) Detroit Receiving
    Pros: Again Detroit>Everybody. Very neat residents, all friendly and cool. Spent interview day talking about Detroit eateries - although I do feel this would be a bit isolating for those outside of the Detroit area. Great trauma, best pediatrics exposure of all the programs it seems since its "in their house." Great population to serve and learn from.

    Cons: Wayne state recently made a statement about looking elsewhere for their training for medical students away from DMC, which I think will not affect the residency but might affect it downstream. Not as academic as HF.

    3) St. Johns Detroit
    Pros: hidden gem in Detroit. Residents are well trained not only to see lots of pathology, but to move the meat and have those skills employers are looking for. Nice hospital with good perks for residents. In house peds. Not a level 2 trauma, but because of where this hospital is located ... nothing drives by this place, you get all the traumas anyhow. Dichotomy of Grosse Pointe and Detroit is interesting. Faculty is great.

    Cons: Not as reputable name (maybe?). 12 hour shifts on weekends. Would be happy to train here.

    4) Sinai Grace Detroit
    Pros: Trial by fire, see all do all, do-it-yourself feel. You run the ICU. Most autonomy of the Detroit places it seemed. The ED is updated, the area where doctors computers are is in the middle of the ED, but walled off and behind a door. Pro because its less distracting while you are trying to chart/put in orders, but con because I see the benefit in having eyes on things. Seems like there is the support here for academics if you want it. Ultrasound faculty was strong.

    Cons: I can only believe the rumors that ancillary staff isn't top notch. Not sure if this place fits my personality with the autonomy so early. Nobody moonlights.

    5) Beaumont Royal Oak
    Pros: Nice area, beautiful hospital, level 1 center with resources. ED expansion to be finished in July. PD seems enthusiastic and helpful.

    Cons: Not the underserved Detroit population in Royal Oak. Less academic/well known name. Residents seemed happy.

    6) Redacted

    7) University of Toledo
    Pros: Underserved population, shiny buildings and really cool sim. We got to see a sim case and I think it is one of the more memorable sim experiences I will ever have. I really like the opportunity to travel. If you want to go international, look no further you can do it here again and again. My resident interviewer was impressive and I enjoyed the day. The PD seems super supportive. This stands out to me for some of the best moonlighting opportunities.

    Cons: Toledo isn't as desirable. I think St. Vincent's is somewhat more well known.

    8) St. Vincents Toledo
    Pros: Flight, great faculty support, Neuro heavy (personal interest), reputable at least in the midwest.

    Cons: Toledo not desirable. I had a weird faculty interaction here that rubbed me the wrong way.

    9) Sparrow East Lansing
    Pros: Lots of opportunity for advocacy in EM (in the state capital!). The PD seems great. Seems family friendly.

    Cons: Lansing not very diverse population. I couldn't relate as well to some residents as I did at other interviews. They felt the least "EM" compared to the rest if that makes sense.

    10) Central Michigan University
    Pros: Residents are trained so well to handle everything that comes their way because this is a nearly unopposed program in one of the most dangerous cities in the country. If Saginaw was a better place to live this would be a much more competitive program. Well known faculty in EM nationwide and strong leadership. New medical school with nice new sim building. Two different EM hospitals to practice in, one small one bigger. EMS is actually pretty heavy.

    Cons: Saginaw is not as enriched as most cities with resources or things a young person wants. Off service rotation might not be as strong due to lack of residents, less academic.

    11) Western Michigan University
    Pros: EMS (if thats your thing) comparable to Pitt. Real deal flight opportunity. Lots of cool brewerys (Bells!). Nice place to have a family, short trip to beautiful lakes/chicago. PD well known and well connected. New medical school with private money = shiny new things. Two ED's to rotate through.

    Cons: Not as great for singles as a city. Large class (20?).

    12) University of Rochester
    Pros: Most laid back and relatable residents. Everyone loves Rochester and I can't quite figure out why but I kinda loved it afterwards too. Wish I could have explored more. Loved the PD here, seems very supportive.

    Cons: Location and they announced after my interview that the PD was being promoted to a position in the medical school. I liked her so much that her leaving dropped them on my list.

    13) St. Louis University
    Pros: Had fun with the residents and applicants at the dinner. City will give you the population you need to learn from, also bigger city with things to see and do.

    Cons: Small class and the residents kinda admitted they don't hangout a lot together. Everyone focuses on this crazy museum in St. Louis (which actually sounds quite neat) however I felt like this museum was being sold more than the actual program all day. Felt overshadowed by the other program in town.

    14) Wright State
    Pros: In the middle of nowhere so you get underserved population. Apparently this is the heroin capital of the nation. Integration with military is interesting and I think for the most part a large positive. Faculty felt supportive. Interview day felt inviting.

    Cons: I felt like although I was reassured there isn't division in the class, that my experiences as a "traditional" applicant wouldn't mesh as well here, location not highly desirable. Low COL.

    Declined: two from new programs, one from Peoria (couldn't fit in my schedule) Drexel and York in PA. Rejected from a lot. I threw my net far with these board stats, but applied very smartly I think. Didn't apply anywhere in NYC, CA, TX, and almost none in SW, NW or East Coast.
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
    filhodeinferno likes this.
  25. odoreater

    odoreater Cybernetic Ghost 10+ Year Member

    May 18, 2003

    :poke: Rochester is in NY
  26. NYCEM2017


    Sep 29, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
    odoreater likes this.
  27. irJanus

    irJanus Falling into a burning ring of fire Physician Faculty 7+ Year Member

    Jan 30, 2009
    Rochester native here... It's Wegmans. It has a gravitational pull. Love that city
  28. doggydog

    doggydog Woof. 2+ Year Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    My inbox is empty, everyone.

    To those who lurk and haven't submitted yet: do it for the kids.
  29. gamerEMdoc

    gamerEMdoc Associate PD; EM Clerkship Director Physician Faculty Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 2+ Year Member

    Feb 10, 2016
    And for the adults who live vicariously through the kids...
  30. Psai

    Psai Account on Hold Physician 2+ Year Member

    Jan 2, 2014
    You're doing the lord's work. Wish gas people would be like this, our rank list thread is atrocious
    doggydog likes this.
  31. NYCEM2017


    Sep 29, 2016
    You'd think it'd be super full considering how much time the gas people spend on their phones all the time..

    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
    racerwad and FirefighterDoc like this.
  32. TimesNewRoman

    TimesNewRoman 2+ Year Member

    May 14, 2013
    Next year we need to make a thread that is closed to only mods posting and the mods can simply post PM'ed rank lists.
    racerwad and MackandBlues like this.
  33. doggydog

    doggydog Woof. 2+ Year Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Good, that will eliminate all of the posts complaining about posts that aren't rank lists.
  34. NYCEM2017


    Sep 29, 2016

    I think the back and forth adds to the thread. Except all the comments complaining about how it should just be submitted rank lists

    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
  35. littlejuan

    littlejuan 10+ Year Member

    Jul 3, 2007
    I think that PD kind of killed it with calling out the applicant. I am pretty sure most don't care to try to identify anyone making these lists. As long as you keep some things vague like step 2 > 230 or something like that it should still keep you anonymous. Rank lists are all submitted anyway so people shouldn't have issues. I like reading about what people think about my program and others. I've seen mine at the top and the bottom of peoples lists. It is interesting to read about what some people really like and don't like about a place.
  36. medmedman

    medmedman 7+ Year Member

    Dec 18, 2008

    Useful to ask questions about people's rank lists. I'm all for deleting comments that are outside of the rank list discussion
  37. LostinLift

    LostinLift 5+ Year Member

    Jan 24, 2013
    These have been the most useful threads in all of SDN... the show must go on. I will happily post my ROL next year.
  38. doggydog

    doggydog Woof. 2+ Year Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: 250s, Step 2: 250s
    EM rotations: H/H
    Medical school region: Northeast
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    Non-trad with interesting experiences, strong SLOEs from what I could infer.

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    Location, "fit" of program, especially residents with diverse life experience (I'm older and would like to not be the only one), strength of program, 3>4 yrs

    1) Christiana -
    Pros: Awesome program with strong, capable, HAPPY residents. Great PD. Combined programs mean that 4s/5s who have an incredible breadth of knowledge are around and do a lot of teaching. Huge patient volume with experience both at main hospital and Wilmington. Relatively low COL in Wilmington/burbs. Not too far from family/ job options for sig other.

    Cons: the only con for me here is that the hospital is not really walkable/bikeable from anywhere.

    2) Temple -
    Pros: Super strong program with enthusiastic residents and faculty. Loved how close the residents and faculty are- they know each other personally and professionally. Safety net hospital with people committed to serving patients in North Philadelphia. Easy commute from many cool areas in Philly. 1 vs 2 was a really tough decision but I just felt the fit was a little better at Christiana for where I am personally in life.

    Cons: Circadian schedule is a con for me, though a lot of people love it.

    3) Cooper -
    Pros: Another fantastic program committed to service. The faculty here love working for Cooper so much that it's hard for graduates to stay because no one leaves! The PD is Dr. Nyce.. . I mean, can you get a better name for a PD than that?

    Cons: Residents I met were mostly young and single, though I guess that's who can most easily make it to dinner so maybe that's not a fair sampling technique.

    4) Vanderbilt -
    Pros: If it were only about the program, I'd be going to Nashville. The Slovis spirit permeates this department and is contagious. They give out a copy of the Ten Commandments of Emergency Medicine written by Wrenn and Slovis that is the foundation of all they do. Google it. That is the kind of EM physician I want to be. Resident wellness is not just a buzz phrase here. I could go on and on, but I'll just say a tiny piece of me still wonders what the heck I did putting them #4 despite all the personal drawbacks of moving to Nashville right now.

    Cons: Far from family and s/o's current job.

    5) Carolinas -
    Great program with awesome training. Beautiful hospital full of resources, and snacks! Really impressive residents. Not quite for me- "we pound you with patients" wasn't really the tone I'm looking for. I plan to work really, really hard during residency, but I think there should be a balance of learning by doing vs time for learning via teaching, reflection, etc. Neither s/o nor I would be too psyched about Charlotte.

    6) St. Lukes Bethlehem -
    Such warm fuzzies at this program. As others have mentioned, true hidden gem- for those of you applying in the future I highly recommend checking this place out. Great leadership, nice residents, really committed to wellness. Bethlehem is a downside for some but I loved the low COL and great access to outdoor rec, and s/o was really psyched about cheap tickets to both Phillies and Flyers farm teams. Not ideal in terms of job options for s/o. Was a little concerned about patient volume. Some of peds experience is down in Philly.

    7) Thomas Jefferson -
    Enthusiastic young faculty and new PD hired from Temple should make for some great teaching. Residents travel all over the place to get patient volume, as TJUH is in Center City ringed by other level 1 trauma centers. Lots of focus on innovation and developing a "niche" like tele-medicine, obs, etc- not really my jam.

    8) York -
    Strong program, happy residents, gorgeous new ED. Not where I want to live.

    9) Denver -
    Don't have much to say that hasn't been discussed. Obviously excellent training- not the environment I want.

    10) Penn State Hershey -
    Low COL, driving distance to family. One of the faculty members I interviewed with essentially told me to go somewhere else. Ouch.

    11) Einstein, Philadelphia -
    4 year program- Cool location, similar population to Temple. Residents seemed totally exhausted and very few made it to dinner. 4th year is essentially "junior faculty" experience. If I'm going to function like a junior faculty member, I'd like to be paid like one.

    12) Geisinger -
    Just had a bad day here. Was asked a lot of awkward interview questions, and didn't click with any of the interviewers except for the PD. Didn't meet a single woman during my interview day. Danville would be problematic for s/o.
  39. doggydog

    doggydog Woof. 2+ Year Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: 240s, Step 2: 260s
    EM rotations: H/HP/H
    Medical school region: South
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    strong research - clinical and basic science; incredible ultrasound experiences; global health

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    Many opportunities available in residency. Moderate to strong academic component. Strong ultrasound.

    1) Brown -
    Pros: has literally everything I am interested in, the people were amazing, Providence is pretty neat. Has the strengths of the Cincinnati curriculum, but a much nicer/healthier feel to the program. Even walking around the town talking to locals gave me a positive impression of the city. Good crit care, US, peds, and teaching experiences.

    Cons: weaker OB/GYN, far from home

    2) U of Michigan -
    Pros: as many others have said, a strong program overall, with amazing crit care. Maybe my favorite residents, definitely one of the most relaxed dinners I went to. Ann Arbor is a nice college town. Opportunity for flight medicine which is fun. Simply a strong program overall, with nothing that stood out as absolutely amazing but very few weaknesses. The training would be great and I had to put them #2 because they seemed so strong overall. Strong resident "union" - they get their birthdays off work (if I remember right).

    Cons: complex patient population, but maybe less "bread and butter" exposure. Nearest big city is Detroit... which isn't my thing.

    3) Maryland -
    Pros: Again strong program overall, amazing trauma experience, they have some huge names in EM and are well known on the speaking circuit. They really teach you how to become an educator - which is something I am interested in.

    Cons: Baltimore. They work 12's. Many hospitals, many EMRs, lots of commuting. Far from home. Strange flow in ED where intern, upper, and attending all see the patient together at the same time.

    4) Wake Forest -
    Pros: A big surprise for me. A strong 3 year program, with a lot of interesting offerings - wilderness med, EMS, etc. I really clicked with all the APDs. Residents were awesome.

    Cons - Location is meh, not so strong global health, seem to work a lot, residents are mostly married

    5) Indiana University -
    Pros: Incredible program, with resident ownership, "family" feel, good mix of hospital settings, decent ultrasound

    Cons - Don't have much in the way of global health, or wilderness medicine, location.... Indy leaves something to be desired, huge program

    6) Cincinnati -
    Pros: The original EM program... these people are beasts and they know it. I think their greatest strength is their greatest weakness.... they have the name and a lot of money and aren't afraid to show it. Incredible air care experience. The crit care training in the SRU is top notch. Lots of $$ for research.

    Cons - I just didn't click with the people at all. I rotated here and just didn't enjoy going to work. Sure, the pathology was cool, but the people were just not my type. Also, they are incredibly weak with ultrasound (although Pattie the sonographer is amazing) and are just starting a global health program.

    7) Ohio State
    8) Maine Medical Center
    9) University of Kentucky
    10) UPMC
    11) Yale
    12) Metrohealth
    13) UMass
  40. doggydog

    doggydog Woof. 2+ Year Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: 202, Step 2: 224
    EM rotations: P/P/HP
    Medical school region: Middle US
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    Was told my comments were some of the best. Rotated at a place where they award students for certain presentations and won that, etc which was written in my app

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    Being close to home but not at home, a midsize or larger program preferred, 8> 12.

    1) Vanderbilt -
    Was surprised I received this interview even but my comments must have helped, thought the faculty were amazing and the residents were super friendly at the dinner, i would say besides Emory they have one of the best mixes of academic and county in the country due to lack of other hospitals in the area. They claim they receive he poorest of the poor and the wealthiest of Nashville as well and I believe it. Unlimited resources at your fingertips and have matched awesome residents to great fellowships

    2) UIC -
    The brown Coaters were awesome to meet with, the PD looks a bit intimidating but he is really genuine, residents meet monthly for a happy hour somewhere in Chicago and remain social outside of the program and work which was important to me, some people see 4 hospital sites as a con but I see it as a positive in that you would learn 4 different managements of an ER and be adaptable for the future

    3) Truman Medical -
    Great faculty and program that's been present for over 40 +years, good for people probably looking to go into community practice, no fellowships but have matched some people in fellowships, kc is a town on the verge of exponential growth, residents not as socially outgoing and don't hang out as much or else i would have put them above UIC

    4) Univ of Nebraska -
    The PD is an absolute comedian and she was the only one that made me laugh during my interviews, the residents are very pleasant, the chiefs were super friendly/one even invited me to play soccer with him since I was staying an extra day in Omaha, smaller program than I'd like but they are moving from 8->9 residents a class

    5) BU -
    I ranked this program strictly lower due to location and me not being a fan of cities that large, but solid residents. One of the faculty rubbed me the wrong way during my interview which was a turn off

    6) Temple -
    Seems as though residents at this program come out solid as a rock once you push thru 3 years of the rough side of Philadelphia. Just the city of philli scares me

    7) Maryland-
    Rotated here and loved a lot of things about it. So much that I rank it above a lot of places with better hours, but those 12s are killer and I just don't think working with high acuity patients for longer than 9/10 will be helpful in terms of my education

    Rest of List:
    Baylor, UT San Antonio, BYU
    Retart13 likes this.
  41. doggydog

    doggydog Woof. 2+ Year Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: 240s, Step 2: 250s
    EM rotations: HP/H/H
    Medical school region: South
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    Nothing listed

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    Fit. Reputation. Location. County PLUS strong academic exposure. Good off-service rotations. Resident diversity. 8-10hr shifts. Strong fellowship opportunities. I'm originally from Texas, looking to relocate somewhere new for residency but wouldn't be mad if I were to stay here for another 3 years.

    1) Denver Health:
    Habitually glorified and simultaneously criticized on SDN for being a rough yet premier program. I rotated here and can say that the PGY-4s were far more impressive than those at my other rotation sites. They do work more hours while they are in the ED, but boy does the means justify the end. amount spent charting after a shift was comparable to that at my other rotations; they see more patients but have scribes starting 2nd year. I liked the residents and attendings I worked with. A lot, actually. Saw impressive trauma and SICK patients both at Denver General (old name of the county hospital) and University Hospital. They have really strong off-service rotations and the interns seem pretty happy about them. They do live the motto of work hard, play hard, with many residents (including the interns) going skiing/hiking/climbing after overnight shifts. Someone said that they only moonlight In Wyoming, and that is false. They seem to have multiple moonlighting options; only issue is that you have to wait until 4th year. +1 in my book for promoting diversity and inclusion in their program!

    2) LA County:
    Another program known for proudly working their residents to the core, yet they generate some of the most impressive EM clinicians and educators out there. County experience is insane. Less academic and with fewer good off-service rotations than my top choice, but would I be mad if I got in here? Not at all. Love the location and had a blast at the interview social. Can come out of this program prepared for anything out there.

    3) UTSW-Dallas:
    In my honest opinion, the best EM program in Texas. They see a ridiculous volume of patients. New Parkland hospital is impressive; hard to look at it as a county hospital when it looks like a five star hotel. Residents and attendings seem like a really fun group. Resident wellness is greater at this program than at my first two picks; salary is higher, too. Ultimately I ranked it 3rd because the patient population is not that great, and trauma at Parkland is dominated by the surgery department. They apparently have to rotate at an OSH in order to get decent trauma exposure. Didn't quite enjoy my conversations with some of the residents at the program, but that is to be expected when you have class sizes of 21-22 residents each.

    4) Emory:
    Really fell in love with this program in a way that I was not expecting to. Grady seems like a fantastic place to train in for EM; off-service rotations are also strong and liked by the residents. Dr. White was one of the nicest faculty I met on the interview trail and would love to have someone like her as my PD. Resident diversity and wellness are taken seriously here. They probably work the least number of shifts per month out of any program I interviewed at. Some of my interactions with the current interns were less than stellar, and the location isn't my top choice, which is why I ranked it lower despite an overwhelmingly positive experience there.

    5) JPS:
    Another strong, really strong Texas program. Was pleasantly surprised by the county experience here. Residents seemed really happy to be there and spoke very highly of the leadership at the program. Seems like this is a hidden gem in Texas that is only getting better and better. Terrific benefits and moonlighting opportunities. Ranked lower on my list because of location, lack of academics, and relatively lack of diversity among the residents.

    6) Indiana University
    7) University of Cincinnati
    8) UCLA-Harbor
    9) Hennepin County
    10) Vanderbilt
    11) Highland/Alameda Health
    12) Palmetto Health
    13) Christiana
    14) Brown
    15) UT Houston
  42. EMimg20


    Mar 8, 2017
    Not sure what to say to the fact that you are "not really believing" my list, other than you can PM me if you have questions.

    On another note, I found this thread extremely helpful to read after rank lists were due. I can see why some people feel uncomfortable putting themselves out there, because some of us are easier to "locate" than others using the stats we provide. However, EM is supposed to be the specialty with the least amount of bull****, and I think you can give your opinions frankly, honestly, and in good faith.

    As students we crave honest and considerate feedback, and I would wager that if any residents/PDs etc read this, the vast majority appreciate the same honest and considerate feedback. Everyone wants to be ranked #1, but everyone should also accept there are way too many variables taken into account for them to take it personally - in my opinion.

    Lastly, I don't think this thread should ONLY be rank lists because I too enjoyed reading some of the back and forth. If the idea is to be able to fly through the thread quickly just reading rank lists, all people have to do is hit 'Ctrl F' for "Applicant Summary:" and you can skip the rest.
  43. IH8ColdWeath3r

    IH8ColdWeath3r 7+ Year Member

    Feb 13, 2010
    Whoever this person is, if you wouldn't mind PM me, I would greatly appreciate it.
  44. DrDuck2

    DrDuck2 2+ Year Member

    Feb 28, 2016
  45. DrDuck2

    DrDuck2 2+ Year Member

    Feb 28, 2016
    Failed CS and still gets 11 interviews...

    Program Directors on here, please explain to me how a medical student that fails CS and has marginal step 1 /step 2 scores is more deserving of interviews than an US-IMG who crushed the Steps, speaks perfect English and has a great personality. Just makes no damn sense.
    JBOB likes this.
  46. KinesiologyNerd

    KinesiologyNerd 5+ Year Member

    Aug 16, 2012
    Anytown, USA
    Lexdiamondz and MelMcT2009 like this.
  47. Lexdiamondz

    Lexdiamondz 5+ Year Member

    Dec 16, 2011
    Simple, many PDs screen out the US-IMG applications before even reading them, so you never really know. If you get 1000 applicants and you only have 100 interview slots for 10 PGY-1 positions, you're gonna filter out as many as possible to make your life easier. You also don't know how many programs that applicant applied to - they could have applied to 100 and gotten 11 for all we know, so they likely aren't 'more deserving' than an US-IMG.

    Furthermore, getting 220s/230s isn't marginal. Below average yes, but not marginal.
  48. IH8ColdWeath3r

    IH8ColdWeath3r 7+ Year Member

    Feb 13, 2010
    I failed the PE, which is the DO equivalent of the CS. I passed it on my second attempt. I have the same board scores and SLOEs as this person and received less than half the interviews this person did. Never failed a clinical rotation, OSCE, or simulated patient encounter. I can tell you from personal experience that it is not looked favorably to have a PE/CS failure. I'd imagine it is like applying to a job with a DWI. Unfortunately, the frustrating thing, at least in my scenario, is that the NBOME, which administers the exam, does not provide a specific, point-by-point rubric as to the grading scheme or why the applicant failed. You just take their word for it and can't ask for further feedback because it will jeopardize the integrity of the exam and they will tell you to "speak with your schools clinical medicine department".

    Point being, it is really tough to tell how programs weigh all of these factors. Each program is obviously different. Just hope for the best and hope somebody is willing to give you a shot.
  49. doggydog

    doggydog Woof. 2+ Year Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: 240s, Step 2: 240s
    EM rotations: H/H
    Medical school region: Northeast
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    extensive teaching experience, URM

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    Academics, Northeast preference, Acuity, Diversity

    1) Yale
    Pros: Very academic with abundant resources, PD very invested in creating leaders in the field, New Haven has great acuity, proximity to NYC & Boston, Strong off service rotations

    Cons: New Haven isn't NYC or Boston, PGY-4s are diverse as hell but every subsequent class is severely lacking in that respect.

    2) NYU
    Pros: Academic, abundant resources, excellent Tox, great reputation in NYC area, strong off service rotations, very diverse patient population

    Cons: Very weak trauma, definite drop off in acuity from the 90s, Tisch consults a lot, recent leadership changes make things a bit unclear going forward

    3) SUNY Downstate/Kings County
    Pros: Excellent clinical training (arguably the best in NYC along w Jacobi), true county hospital with decent mix of medically acute patients and trauma, ED-ICU, strong reputation in hospital, VERY diverse & accomplished faculty.

    Cons: Not as academic as #1&2, less money for other endeavors. Nursing sucks ass (supposedly getting better though), no subsidized housing despite being in NYC, off service rotations relatively weak, Patient population isn't diverse at all

    4) University of Pennsylvania
    Pros: ++Reputation, COL cheaper in Philly, multiple sites = different practice environments, excellent peds @ CHOP, $$$ for research, building a new ED-ICU, EM-SICU fellowship track

    Cons: Residents seemed very lukewarm about program, - medicine floor months, heavy consulting at UHP, Penn students seem to prefer Temple to Penn in Philly which says something

    5) Boston Medical Center/Boston University
    Pros: Excellent reputation, probably the best EM residency in Boston, "county with resources" = strong EM residency within the hospital + ability to actually impact patients lives positively. + Peds at Boston Children's. Diverse patient population, young city with alot of social opportunities. Strong global health. Residents seemed super chill

    Cons: Residents not diverse at all (zero black residents and only one hispanic resident in the entire program)
  50. doggydog

    doggydog Woof. 2+ Year Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: 220s, Step 2: 250s
    EM rotations: ?/H/H
    Medical school region: Southeast
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    Some interesting travel experiences and medical mission work in my personal statement got brought up almost everywhere. I have a really attractive dog

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    Perceived "Fit". Warm climate. Spanish speaking population. No 4 year programs. Community/county>academic. Interested in doing medical mission work in the future so program's that have international elective opportunities.

    1) University of Arizona - South campus
    Targeted programs in the SE/TX for climate and patient population and this one had the best "fit" overall among the residents and faculty. Dinner at the PDs house, who was the most approachable and also most responsive at answering my emails after the interview. ++Spanish program longitudinal. 70/30 at university campus. International electives. Have I mentioned I love their PD?

    -- small class (6) but not a real con for me. Seems to spend a lot of time with other residents and you can swap schedules with them.

    2) Maricopa - Phoenix
    First impression, loved the residents at the pre-Interview dinner. Huge turnout with alumni there that worked in town. Seemed like a younger, close group who loved to joke around. ++ similar to above, but just had a better feeling about south campus. I went back and forth daily on these two and would be super ecstatic to end up at either. I actually liked the opportunity to rotate at several different sites. Burn unit rotation.

    -- not a lot of females on faculty, though this didn't seem to be a problem with any of the female residents I spoke with

    3) University of Arizona - university campus
    Obviously similar to my other top programs in location and patient population but felt more of an academic focus here. Seemed like several people were focused on research and fellowships (awesome, but not my personal career goals). Seemed like a busy ED where you would see a lot of patients including some complex ones like transplants. Awesome residents, had a great interaction with everyone I met.

    4) University of New Mexico
    This was my pre-Interview trail number 1. Love the location, population, and everything abq has to offer. Incredible resus bay. Super competent residents who got jobs in desirable locations for me upon finishing. I got a few off feelings from some of the residents while interviewing and have heard horror stories of the boarding and difficulties getting patients admitted. This is probably something that wouldn't bother everyone, but you have to know what would get on your nerves for 3 years and this moved it down for me. Overall I'm picking this apart because I loved so many places and think it's an incredible program here.

    5) UT Houston
    Not my favorite city size (traffic) but I feel like you would come out of this program a rockstar. Love the diverse academic/county/community site rotations early on in residency. Contrary to some other experiences on here, I really hit it off with the residents. Had a big dinner turn out and great conversations with them. I did have a strange interview with the PD - a maybe 3 minute interview that he didn't seem super interested in.

    6) UT Memphis
    ++ the amount of procedures these residents have done is mind blowing. Extremely competent. Don't mind location, have good friends in the city. I think this is a great up and coming program.

    -- peds experience didn't seem great, 2 years old, I was reassured that there were no conflicts with surgery but keep hearing from students that rotated there that it's not all worked out

    7) UT chatt
    Loved the city,great size with great outdoor activities and good COL. Not my ideal patient population, spent a month here and didn't have any Spanish speakers so I wouldn't have the opportunity to keep that skill up. Absolutely loved the residents, they did a great job teaching and helped me do many of my first procedures successfully.

    8) Texas tech - El Paso
    This one was a disappointment for me as I was excited about the location and opportunities I would have so close to the border. Unfortunately had a werid Interview day ie virtual reality equipment and some residents arguing at the dinner the night before. Could have been an off day but it didn't give me the "warm fuzzies". I still think you would see some incredible pathology this close to the border, but I was also disappointed that they didn't have funds for international electives.

    9) UF Gainesville
    10) Virginia Tech
    11) Vidant East Carolina

    I want to say I applied to 45 and got interviews from 22. I decided on EM 3rd year so was still in the process of deciding what I want for my career "in the next 5 to 10 years" when I applied.. As I interviewed I withdrew from programs (i.e. Southeast and a few randoms up north) quickly. Turning on the weather channel and seeing temperatures of 5 in the NE made that decision easier in December.
  51. doggydog

    doggydog Woof. 2+ Year Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step scores: Above Average
    EM rotations: Above Average
    Medical school region: Sorry
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    I had several EM extracurriculars as well as some research. Good scores, but overall probably not too much on my application that stood out from the rest.

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    Strength of clinical training (high-volume, high-acuity). Fit. Location. 3>4. County exposure.

    1) JPS
    This was the biggest surprise of the interview trail for me. I followed last year’s ROL thread closely and it definitely had an influence on my application this year. Before the interview trail started I was expecting to rank one of the classic SDN favorite programs first, but in the end I was completely blown away by JPS. This place is an intense 3 year county program. JPS does not have a gen surg or IM residency (however, they do have external surgery resident rotators from Baylor-Dallas) and so you have an incredible trauma exposure with outrageous procedure numbers. This was the busiest ED during the interview tour that I saw this season. They have an attached high-volume urgent care area that siphons off the low acuity cases, leaving the residents with a ton of high-acuity patients every shift. The residents were incredibly friendly and the faculty were young, engaged, and ready to make this program even better. So many of the residents insisted about how JPS was their first choice and they were definitely passionate about their training. The benefits were outstanding (insurance with all premiums covered for all dependents, free meals, parking, etc), especially considering the COL in Fort Worth.

    2) Indiana
    A well-loved SDN program, and for good reason. The combination of county and academic EDs provides for an outstanding exposure during the three years of training. The residents had a strong sense of family, and it was apparent that the faculty loved to work with the residents. The facilities were gorgeous, and in very convenient locations near each other. Fantastic job placement and plenty of opportunities for research if that is your thing. Overall, I would be thrilled to end up here. The only real negative I took away is that ED is primarily airway-only for the trauma activations.

    3) Maricopa
    Maricopa had the strongest emphasis on resident wellness of all the programs that I visited. The PD is a very personable guy, and truly seems to be invested in the well-being of his residents both inside and outside the hospital. The training is fantastic and has been well described before. The residents really seemed to enjoy their residency and genuinely seemed to enjoy being around each other and the faculty.

    4) Carolinas
    All three years in the same hospital. Faculty and residents were very welcoming and friendly. The hospital is busy and only getting busier. The CMC reputation is a huge asset when it comes to job placement. The first year was a little uncomfortably close to a transitional year, however they’ve recently added another ED month (but still have a pediatric floor month?).

    5) UT Houston
    A great combo between a very high-acuity academic private trauma center and a county hospital. The program is expanding to 21 residents next year. They recently switched to 8 hour shifts on weekdays with 12s on weekends and the residents seemed to really like the new schedule. I had great interactions with the faculty and residents. The Texas Medical Center is a monster. May have some concerns about the more limited role of the ED in trauma activations, however they are still one of the busiest trauma centers in the nation.

    6) Vanderbilt
    A strong program with a long history for great emergency physicians. The Wrenn-Slovis combo has created a well-oiled emergency medicine machine. The residents were some of the nicest on the trail as well as some of the most humble. A huge emphasis of the program is on teaching and education. I appreciate this, but in the end I know that I am more of a hands-on, learn-by-doing type of person.

    7) Austin
    One of the newest Texas programs. The PD is very engaged and energetic. The residents continually mentioned how the PD is willing to take their feedback and make any changes they suggest if they have a good reason for it. The faculty all seemed to really enjoy their jobs and get along with the residents. I had some concerns about the ED not being resident-run. The small class size (8) is definitely different than the other programs where I interviewed. They get paid more than any other program that I’ve seen. Free doctor’s lounge food.

    8) Denver
    Do we need to say anything more about Denver? Put in a freshly graduated medical student, wait four years, and out comes a total emergency medicine boss. In the end, I didn’t think the fourth year here was what I wanted. The graduated responsibility seemed a little slow and I didn’t like the idea of presenting my patients to residents just one year ahead of me. The COL-to-benefits ratio seemed considerably worse in comparison to many other programs. Every resident I interacted with seemed super pleased with their training, however, I did hear the phrase “we aren’t malignant” maybe 6-8 times.

    9) UTSW
    What a huge emergency department. Incredible volume and an immense physical layout. A fantastic pediatric experience at Children’s Medical Center (same location for JPS). Great community ED time, which really gets your foot in the door for that sweet Texas job market. The trauma experience at Parkland is definitely a bummer, and the residents were pretty open about the frustrations that they encountered. On interview day I repeatedly heard how they see >200k patients per year, but that’s not the entire picture. >60k of that number are from urgent care visits, >15k from a separate ob-gyn pod, >5k from a separate psych pod, and there are also pods in the main ED that aren’t staffed by residents at all. I have no doubt that the residents are crazy busy, its just that if you are going to use that number as a selling point of the program (>200k), make sure that it actually represents what the residency experiences.

    10) Baylor
    Baylor has an incredibly nice PD who has a huge focus on diversity and education. They work at a very busy county hospital with many county hospital type of problems. You see a large volume and you get to do pediatrics in the huge Texas Children’s Hospital. My interactions with the residents brought up some concerns about the program’s strength in the hospital hierarchy as well as some scheduling problems they encountered 2 years ago. Anesthesiology is still a part of the trauma activations. There are on-going turf wars that this new program is having to fight that I just don’t want to be a part of.

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