[2016-2017] Emergency Medicine Rank Order List Thread

[carbonizedeyesockets]

Thats a pretty bold, blanket statement.

You could provide the best training in the world, but at the end of the day you are beholden to another specialty. That's weak. Internal medicine or surgery should not be administering emergency medicine training. It's embarrassing that there are still programs around that let themselves be led by doctors who are not of their own specialty. Utah and WUSTL have been around long enough that they should be out from under another specialty. I guess if it's not weakness, it must be laziness? Or is it a lack of pride in ones own specialty? Whatever the reason, it is lame.

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[doggydog]

Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: >250, Step 2: >250
EM rotations: HP/H/H
AOA

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
MD student. After hearing programs out I’m a heavy lean toward academic programs still with good community exposure/feel. I don't like huge cities so that played into it. List is mostly off fit/gut feel and what a program can do for me outside the ED. Decided to stay east due to family and SO preference.

1) University of Wisconsin
Pros: This is so much about fit for me. The program seemed very motivated, and the PD and chair are awesome. Lots of young faculty for every niche. They work 9s with no floor months. Flight is big at UW. 3+1 is a huge draw. Madison is perfect for me. Agree with previous list that this program just needs some age and it'll be a powerhouse.

Cons: Reputation? Driving to Beloit.

2) University of Michigan
Pros: Residents were great. It’s a top 20 medical center that still has a good emphasis on community practice. Love that they have integrated flight. Lots of ICU time and EC3 (ED ICU). Nice facilities. Huge NIH research funding if you want it.

Cons: I don’t want to drive to Flint for 10% of residency. I love Ann Arbor, but not southeast Michigan.

3) University of North Carolina
Pros: Program has a good reputation. Tintinalli is still there. Like the concentrations as a senior to develop a niche. WakeMed sounds like it’s worth the drive. No floor months. Good benefits. Love the location. Scribes.

Cons: Going to be doing a whole lot of driving. Low salaries, but that’s going up per the residents.

4) Duke
Pros: Newer program, but the institution has a great reputation. Residents are all happy. Residents work 8s (12 on weekends). They have community rotations. Resus month seems like a really great idea. Love the Triangle.

Cons: Medicine floor month. Some residents were Duke-y.

5) MGH/BWH
Pros: It’s MGH and the Brigham. I like the differences between the two hospitals. Buttloads of electives. Every off service you're learning from the best. Good teaching opportunities. Leadership was cool especially the two chairs who took time to meet every applicant.

Cons: Too academic? Medicine floor month. Peds seems weaker. Boston is bigger, colder, and expensiver than I want.

6) UPenn
Pros: HUP and CHOP. All rotations are in Philly. They have academic tracks that are not mandatory. Good, young leadership. Plenty of trauma in west Philly. PAID teaching opportunity.

Cons: Reputation? Medicine floor month. Too academic? Flight is an elective. Not a huge Philly fan, but doable.

7) Temple
Pros: Absolutely love the leadership. The residents are awesome. Has a good reputation in EM. Crazy acuity and crazy penetrating trauma volume. Ultrasound is strong. All rotations are in Philly.

Cons: ED is (feels?) too small for the volume and old. North Philly is… rough. Quite possibly too much trauma. Not a Philly fan, but doable.

8) UChicago
Pros: Very well-established program with maybe my favorite PD. 3yr program at a large academic center. Integrated helicopter and medivac time. Two guaranteed weekends off per month. New ED and regaining level 1 status in 2018. All rotations are in Chicago (but far).

Cons: Sites are spread out. South Chicago sounds a lot like North Philly. Chicago is big with notorious traffic.

9) Northwestern
Pros: Dr. Adams sold me on 4yr programs. Great reputation. Residents are very cool and down to earth. ICU heavy is fine with me. No floor months. Beautiful hospital in a great area.

Cons: No real flight opportunities. Going to be logging a lot of miles. Too academic? Would like to know who my boss will be.

10) Johns Hopkins
Pros: Well-established program at a stellar institution. Chair was really cool and didactics seem great. ED is new. No floor months. Residents were fun and seemed like normal people. Best food on the interview trail. Bowls of candy and snacks in the PM, and the best dinner and lunch I had.

Cons: FAST seems a lot like a mandatory, underpaid 3+1. Long commute to community site and EM offices for conference. Too academic?

11) Wake Forest
Pros: Well-established program. PD is a cool guy. 3yr program with a big academic base to draw on. More volume than I expected. Only 2 rotations away from Baptist. All 8s. No floor months. I liked Winston. Served krispy kreme for breakfast.

Cons: Weird resident interactions. Enough penetrating trauma? Prefer other parts of NC.

12) Henry Ford
Pros: It has a good reputation. All the rotations are in Detroit and the vast majority at Ford. Big ICU focus with Emanuel Rivers on staff. Attendings and residents were great.

Cons: Detroit isn’t for everyone. Nephrology and neurology floor months. It’s not Receiving or Denver, but they get worked. Academic enough?

13) Emory
Pros: Great reputation. Best of both worlds between Grady (county) and Emory (large academic center). County hospital with plenty of goodies. All the academics in the world is there if you want it.

Cons: Floor month, ENT, and ophtho rotations. Felt like there were a lot of sites. Really great program, but not sure it’s for me.

14) Hennepin
Pros: Great reputation in EM. Good benefits for residents. Pitboss role as a senior is cool. Good mix of medical and trauma. Amazing resources.

Cons: Falling peds census, and chair blew it off. Super graduated responsibility. Floor month and 6 weeks(!!!) of neurosurgery. Every resident gave some version of a “work hard play hard” speech and it was weird.

15) Carolinas
Pros: Solid program with a great reputation. Hybrid community program with academic resources. Everything is done at CMC. Beaucoup benefits.

Cons: I don’t know there’s nothing wrong with it, I just didn’t feel it. Academic enough? Prefer other parts of NC

Other:
Offered didn’t interview: Arizona, Harbor, Denver, USF, Miami Jackson, Presence, Cinci, OSU, Drexel, PSU, UPMC, UT-Austin, UTSW, Utah, Georgetown

Rejected (most still silent): UCSD, UCI, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisville, BIDMC, Maryland, Missouri, ECU, USC-Greenville, Vanderbilt, VCU, MCW

Pretty thrilled with all of my opportunities, and would be over the moon anywhere in my top 10. Biggest snubs were Indiana, Vandy, and BIDMC which were in my top 10 going into the process.

 

[TheComebacKid]

You could provide the best training in the world, but at the end of the day you are beholden to another specialty. That's weak. Internal medicine or surgery should not be administering emergency medicine training. It's embarrassing that there are still programs around that let themselves be led by doctors who are not of their own specialty. Utah and WUSTL have been around long enough that they should be out from under another specialty. I guess if it's not weakness, it must be laziness? Or is it a lack of pride in ones own specialty? Whatever the reason, it is lame.

WashU is not under surgery or medicine. They are their own independent division with their own chairman and they don't answer to anyone. Places like WashU have extremely high requirements to gain "department status". I don't think that means that program leadership is lazy or weak.

UCSF EM has department status. They also split trauma airways with anesthesia. Hope that illustrates an important point. Just because you are a department doesn't mean anything if you ask me.

Also if you are Duke that doesn't mean that surgery is training EM residents and dictating how they do things. It is probably merely an administrative relationship i.e faculty salaries come from the department of surgery etc.

There is no standardization across institutions regarding what a division versus a department is. I know that's difficult for neurotic applicants to process, but it seems to me to be more about the actual program and the residents, not division vs department title on the letterhead.

 

[doggydog]

Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: second attempt - 229, Step 2: 221
EM rotations: HP/HP/P
Medical school region: Caribbean Medical School (5 year path)

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Location (originally from midwest region), 8>12hr, 3>4yr

1) Kendall -
Pros: great newer program in florida, awesome faculty and first intern class was really friendly, really drank the 'we're gonna be great' kool-aid when I was there because the PD portrays it well, probably the best 'newer' program (0-1 year old) in my opinion

Cons: its always hott but thats better than cold

2) UIC -
Pros: SO has good job opportunities in town which helps us out quite a bit, would love to be here but the cold weather gives me chills (literally)

Cons: multiple sites to work at makes it a hassle

3) Arkansas -
Pro: well established program in the midwestish area, great hold of EMS all over arkansas which helps them pull patients of all pathology, although its 12 hours shifts everyone there was happy which convinced me to place them higher

Cons: 12 hour shifts

4) Arizona -
Pros: great program in a decent area in town, I was extremely impressed with their facilities and lots of CC trained docs which I am interested in

Cons: the applicants I were with were not the nicest peopple, although this shouldn't affect what I think of the program it subtly does

5) SLU -
Pros: smaller program with lots of residents with kids/families which I appreciated, not the biggest fan of STL but the program is well established and 3 years (as opposed to the 4 yr program across town)

Cons: the PD was aggressive, not as well liked as other PDs (per residents)

6) Mayo -
Pros: can NOT live in rochester but its this high up due to the name of the program..i didn't really drink the kool-aid that the previous posters talked about hence why it is 6th.

Cons: rochester is not survivable in the winter lol

7) Stroger Cook County -
Pros: 4 year program, they speak so highly of the trauma they see but thats just a alogorithm in my opinion so i didn't really buy into the importance of that..patient population was slightly more underserved than UIC which I can appreciate

Cons: 4 longgg years

8) UT murphreesboro -
Pros: none listed

Cons: accepted interview to try and get to golden number of ranks..was not impressed but I am just not a small town guy (not that small atleast)

Rest of the List:
UT Chatanooga, Ohio state, U. of Kansas, U of Missouri

 

[doggydog]

Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 230s, Step 2: 240s
EM rotations: H/H/HP
Medical school region: Southwest
Anything else that made you more competitive: Was told I had good letters, my mom says I'm a good person

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
My personal ranking criteria 20% each (1-5)
Reputation (Training/Job Preparation):
Location (2)/Lifestyle (2)/Benefits (1):
X-Factor (Wilderness/International/Disaster):
Culture (Residents Happy/Wellness/Personality Match):
Gestalt/Gut Feeling

This is mostly a stream of consciousness from post interview... I'm on vacation so didn't edit. Not sorry for grammar errors or the notes I lost on programs (will post reviews if I find them).

1) UT Austin Dell:
Already very established and competitive as a young program. Seems to be continuing on a strong upward trajectory. Solid leadership with focus on education. I would put this program more on the "county" spectrum although it may become academic with the new fancy hospital. ED residents only involve specialists (ortho, ophto, etc) when out of EM scope of practice. There is a very sick, complex patient population with more than enough big city trauma. Residents graduate with top metrics in overall number of patients seen, acuity of patients, procedures, and board scores compared to other residencies. Program is critical care heavy and seems to have the strongest critical care training of my interview locations. Training is multi-center and varied which I see as a positive. Good ultrasound experience and will be getting better with addition of 2 new fellowship trained faculty (one was fellowship director at other program). Peds is longitudinal and seemed average compared to other places I interviewed. Most interns already surpassed ACGME (all three years worth) required procedures by the time I interviewed. Third years were most competent of my away rotations and ran the show in the ED. From talking to residents everyone placed in 1st choice job or fellowship including competitive locations including Denver, Austin, Stanford, and big money Texas jobs. The city of Austin, TX of living is higher than other regions in Texas. Residents do a lot of outdoor stuff. Benefits are best on the interview trail so far 59-64k/yr with very cheap health insurance, moonlighting is incredible and 3rd year only which I have found is typical of Texas programs. Shifts are 18x9s/28 days all 3 years with 3 weeks’ vacation and two elective months. X factors: The place you want to go for event medicine, administration, healthcare policy. Residents work X games, F1, Moto GP, ACL, etc. Lots of outdoor stuff, helicopter time during EMS month, resident involvement in program leadership optional from the first year on. UT Austin and Dell Medical School research affiliation. Culture: Everyone happy, fit, healthy. Good mix of single people and people with families. Lots of outdoorsy people, some residents ride bikes to work. Gut feeling: great group of people, faculty get drinks with residents. These residents are a family and you can tell by the way they interact. You get to make decisions and in roads for the program even as an intern. Ranked this program first because it had the one-on one education I desired during shifts with big city patient population and acuity.

2) OHSU:
One of the oldest programs in US. Some contract groups in competitive locations on the west coast only hire residents from this program. Great training and education- Residents in top 10% in terms of patient’s seen and top 10% acuity index of patients seen, no problem getting multiples of procedures needed to graduate and everyone does a couple of thoracotomies by the end of residency. 3 year program. 17-19 8-10hr shifts/28 days, skewed toward time in multiple EDs vs off service. PGY1 $53,300, PGY2 $56,000, PGY3 $58,400. Portland is an outdoor mecca with great restaurants and nice people. X factors include focus on education, strength of faculty and leadership position in EM, location, reputation/job and fellowship placement, focus on resident wellness, and residents. Gut feeling is that this would be a great place to train with some of the best benefits and lifestyle I found on the interview trail. At dinner felt very comfortable with residents and felt that they were all very happy with their decision. The residents were a diverse group from all over the country. Some negatives were more driving between locations than other places, it really does rain half the year in Portland. Job market for EM physicians in region not nearly as good as in other regions after residency, so I would probably move after residency. Overall this stuff was minor and I fell it would be an incredible place to train and work.

3) Utah
4) Maine

5) Mayo:
The mayo reputation is everywhere, while not as established as some other programs the reputation of this program is quickly raising and the Mayo name can get you a lot of places. Invested in education and tailoring the program to your needs. Rochester sucks a little bit, but is close to the twin cities. The program allows for rotations in Jacksonville FL and Scottsdale AZ so that eases the pain a bit. Mayo throws money at residents for whatever they need for training which isn’t a bad thing. Program pays for 4 months of away electives wherever you want (Nepal, new Zealand, etc). Benefits are unmatched on the interview trail so far. Residents average 5.2 days per week with 8 hr shifts + 1 hour crossover on EM months, non EM months are cushier than other places. International and disaster medicine is huge here + mayo reputation + devotion to excellence in teaching. People are happy, we got along well at the pre interview dinner, mayo culture is unique and it was almost weird how much everyone on different services got along. I would be happy here, it would be tough to leave wife for a month on international rotation but we could find a way to make it work. Worth moving for.

6) Kentucky:
Felt at home during residency dinner, best gut feeling so far about people. Really bonded with all of the second years and had a great time during the interview. Lexington is ok and I would prefer to go somewhere better if I am moving out of my home state. Program and people may make it worth it

7) UVA
8) New Mexico

Rest of the List:
UTH, UTSA, JPS, S&W, Corpus

 

[fresh101889]

Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: second attempt - 229, Step 2: 221
EM rotations: HP/HP/P
Medical school region: Caribbean Medical School (5 year path)

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Location (originally from midwest region), 8>12hr, 3>4yr

1) Kendall -
Pros: great newer program in florida, awesome faculty and first intern class was really friendly, really drank the 'we're gonna be great' kool-aid when I was there because the PD portrays it well, probably the best 'newer' program (0-1 year old) in my opinion

Cons: its always hott but thats better than cold

2) UIC -
Pros: SO has good job opportunities in town which helps us out quite a bit, would love to be here but the cold weather gives me chills (literally)

Cons: multiple sites to work at makes it a hassle

3) Arkansas -
Pro: well established program in the midwestish area, great hold of EMS all over arkansas which helps them pull patients of all pathology, although its 12 hours shifts everyone there was happy which convinced me to place them higher

Cons: 12 hour shifts

4) Arizona -
Pros: great program in a decent area in town, I was extremely impressed with their facilities and lots of CC trained docs which I am interested in

Cons: the applicants I were with were not the nicest peopple, although this shouldn't affect what I think of the program it subtly does

5) SLU -
Pros: smaller program with lots of residents with kids/families which I appreciated, not the biggest fan of STL but the program is well established and 3 years (as opposed to the 4 yr program across town)

Cons: the PD was aggressive, not as well liked as other PDs (per residents)

6) Mayo -
Pros: can NOT live in rochester but its this high up due to the name of the program..i didn't really drink the kool-aid that the previous posters talked about hence why it is 6th.

Cons: rochester is not survivable in the winter lol

7) Stroger Cook County -
Pros: 4 year program, they speak so highly of the trauma they see but thats just a alogorithm in my opinion so i didn't really buy into the importance of that..patient population was slightly more underserved than UIC which I can appreciate

Cons: 4 longgg years

8) UT murphreesboro -
Pros: none listed

Cons: accepted interview to try and get to golden number of ranks..was not impressed but I am just not a small town guy (not that small atleast)

Rest of the List:
UT Chatanooga, Ohio state, U. of Kansas, U of Missouri

Ohio state in the "rest of the list" !??!?!....has this ROL been verified?

 

[CliveStaples]

Ohio state in the "rest of the list" !??!?!....has this ROL been verified?

Not everybody has the same priorities out of a residency - name recognition is probably the bottom of my considerations, for instance.

If this guy/gal thinks the Murfreesboro/Nashville area is too small, the OSU area probably doesn't appeal.

I don't think there's a "verification" on any of these lists.

 

[canigetawhatwhat]

I dont even think I ranked OSU.


OMG HOW CAN I BE A PRACTICING ER DOCTOR!?!!!!

 

[doggydog]

Ohio state in the "rest of the list" !??!?!....has this ROL been verified?

How do you expect me to verify an anonymous rank list?

 

[6yearmedstud]

How do you expect me to verify an anonymous rank list?

Maybe you can require a fingerprint verification system through the federal government to ensure 100% accuracy in ROLs

 

[deleted245139]

I'm more impressed with the list for carribean grad w a step failure. Good on em

 

[Psai]

How do you expect me to verify an anonymous rank list?

Copy of step report, 3 letters of recommendation and an iris recognition system

 

[startupquick]

Copy of step report, 3 letters of recommendation and an iris recognition system

Don't believe that rank list.
Low step scores. A failure. Then invites from those programs. Nope. Not happening.

 

[6yearmedstud]

Don't believe that rank list.
Low step scores. A failure. Then invites from those programs. Nope. Not happening.

Seems plausible. Those scores aren't that low. And those programs aren't the greatest EM programs in the World. All you need is a good reason for the failure and it will be overlooked.

If Vanderbilt and UCSF will interview someone with a 190s step score (page 2 post) this students ROL lines up with that.

 

[Bojack Horseman]

Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.



3) Arkansas -
Pro: well established program in the midwestish area, great hold of EMS all over arkansas which helps them pull patients of all pathology, although its 12 hours shifts everyone there was happy which convinced me to place them higher

Cons: 12 hour shifts

Current resident at Arkansas. All intern shifts are 10 hours with 1 hour overlap. Upper levels work 9 on the weekdays and 12s on the weekends. It's not like we're working all 12's...



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[ajh1983]

Don't believe that rank list.
Low step scores. A failure. Then invites from those programs. Nope. Not happening.

As an applicant who grew up 45 minutes from Rochester and scored >250 with decent letters and heard crickets from Mayo - I'll admit frustration that an IMG with step 1 failure was interviewed. Good for that person, bad for the process I guess.

 

[CliveStaples]

As an applicant who grew up 45 minutes from Rochester and scored >250 with decent letters and heard crickets from Mayo - I'll admit frustration that an IMG with step 1 failure was interviewed. Good for that person, bad for the process I guess.

I apologize for your frustration - I too had a couple programs I really wanted to interview at.

I will say that as an applicant who scored maybe 40 points lower on a board than you (and had the opportunity to visit Mayo) I'll just say that this is all evidence that boards absolutely do not rule the day for a majority of EM programs.

It's clear that PDs take more comprehensive looks of applications for interviews and while the lack of transparency is frustrating (why'd I get an interview from Mayo and not 'X' program I was really interested in?) I'm not ready to say that the 'process' is broken just because we can't stratify what programs we are competitive for off of step scores alone.

 

[OnlyOneZlatan]

Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: second attempt - 229, Step 2: 221
EM rotations: HP/HP/P
Medical school region: Caribbean Medical School (5 year path)

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Location (originally from midwest region), 8>12hr, 3>4yr

1) Kendall -
Pros: great newer program in florida, awesome faculty and first intern class was really friendly, really drank the 'we're gonna be great' kool-aid when I was there because the PD portrays it well, probably the best 'newer' program (0-1 year old) in my opinion

Cons: its always hott but thats better than cold

2) UIC -
Pros: SO has good job opportunities in town which helps us out quite a bit, would love to be here but the cold weather gives me chills (literally)

Cons: multiple sites to work at makes it a hassle

3) Arkansas -
Pro: well established program in the midwestish area, great hold of EMS all over arkansas which helps them pull patients of all pathology, although its 12 hours shifts everyone there was happy which convinced me to place them higher

Cons: 12 hour shifts

4) Arizona -
Pros: great program in a decent area in town, I was extremely impressed with their facilities and lots of CC trained docs which I am interested in

Cons: the applicants I were with were not the nicest peopple, although this shouldn't affect what I think of the program it subtly does

5) SLU -
Pros: smaller program with lots of residents with kids/families which I appreciated, not the biggest fan of STL but the program is well established and 3 years (as opposed to the 4 yr program across town)

Cons: the PD was aggressive, not as well liked as other PDs (per residents)

6) Mayo -
Pros: can NOT live in rochester but its this high up due to the name of the program..i didn't really drink the kool-aid that the previous posters talked about hence why it is 6th.

Cons: rochester is not survivable in the winter lol

7) Stroger Cook County -
Pros: 4 year program, they speak so highly of the trauma they see but thats just a alogorithm in my opinion so i didn't really buy into the importance of that..patient population was slightly more underserved than UIC which I can appreciate

Cons: 4 longgg years

8) UT murphreesboro -
Pros: none listed

Cons: accepted interview to try and get to golden number of ranks..was not impressed but I am just not a small town guy (not that small atleast)

Rest of the List:
UT Chatanooga, Ohio state, U. of Kansas, U of Missouri

I don't want to believe this list, but if it is real, this is BS for DOs or lower tier MD school students with better scores w/ no red flags who won't even be interviewed by some of these programs on this list.

 

[clibby]

I apologize for your frustration - I too had a couple programs I really wanted to interview at.

I will say that as an applicant who scored maybe 40 points lower on a board than you (and had the opportunity to visit Mayo) I'll just say that this is all evidence that boards absolutely do not rule the day for a majority of EM programs.

It's clear that PDs take more comprehensive looks of applications for interviews and while the lack of transparency is frustrating (why'd I get an interview from Mayo and not 'X' program I was really interested in?) I'm not ready to say that the 'process' is broken just because we can't stratify what programs we are competitive for off of step scores alone.

It is stories like this that make people want to apply anywhere they are interested in. (Great for this applicant, but is an example of why everyone else doesn't trust advice from one PD or school admin). The lack of understanding of what makes us competitive for any particular program drives up the number of applications we send out. It is odd that programs complain about the number of applications they receive, but don't want to lift the veil on what criteria they use to judge applications. As long as students with great scores/grades don't get interviews at mediocre programs and those with low scores/grades get interviews at top programs, then students will both apply out of their league and others will continue to apply broadly even when they don't have to. The number of applications per applicant won't be stabilized until applicants can accurately gauge where to apply when they are not the cream of the crop; too much depends on the Match to not try apply everywhere you think you have to.

 

[deleted813736]

I don't want to believe this list, but if it is real, this is BS for DOs or lower tier MD school students with better scores w/ no red flags who won't even be interviewed by some of these programs on this list.

As a carribean medical student, I have many many colleagues of mine that failed step 1. Someone recover and some don't. However those that did fail were able to provide reasons in their personal statement that explained these failures and their success thereafter on second attempts. My school is a US accredited MD school. We mostly all came from the US. Many of my colleagues have received wonderful interviews at Denver, vandy, cincy even after failing step 1 once. They put forth effort in their out of towns, received excellent letters, and even had attendings make phone calls for them. Although it may not seem 'fair' for IMGs to get interviews here, we put in the same amount of effort and time to be where we are. As an applicant with step scores over 1 SD deviation below average for EM, I interviewed at northwestern which is considered 'top tier' and the reason I received that interview was STRICTLY because of my letters. They verbalized this to me during my interviews. Someone with 210s step scores will still likely pass EM boards as someone with 250s. Once they know you are capable of passing EM boards and not shaming the schools with a fail, it's all equal.

 

[CliveStaples]

It is stories like this that make people want to apply anywhere they are interested in. (Great for this applicant, but is an example of why everyone else doesn't trust advice from one PD or school admin). The lack of understanding of what makes us competitive for any particular program drives up the number of applications we send out. It is odd that programs complain about the number of applications they receive, but don't want to lift the veil on what criteria they use to judge applications. As long as students with great scores/grades don't get interviews at mediocre programs and those with low scores/grades get interviews at top programs, then students will both apply out of their league and others will continue to apply broadly even when they don't have to. The number of applications per applicant won't be stabilized until applicants can accurately gauge where to apply when they are not the cream of the crop; too much depends on the Match to not try apply everywhere you think you have to.

I agree that this expounds the problem of sending out too many applications, but programs divulging what they are looking for is probably never going to happen - the fact is that for most programs, they offer interviews to a wide range of applicants in terms of scores, experiences, etc. It's not enough to say "we consider all board scores" vs "we don't consider applications without at least a 230 step 1 score" because almost everybody is in the former category. Nobody interviews just people with crazy high scores and nobody only interviews people with low scores.

We want people to apply to a mix of programs - programs which get lots of applicants and those that don't receive as many (or I guess in this age of everybody getting lots of applicants, programs that tend to be ranked highly on applicants lists and those that tend to get ranked lower). We just know that we would get similar match results if everybody applied to 30 programs as when everybody applies to 60.

Transparency in specifically what each program is looking for won't help if almost everybody interviews a wide range of applicants (and when we are blind to our SLOEs, objective application scoring measures, etc.). Ultimately I think the only solution to sending out more and more applications is going to be to arbitrarily set a limit on how many applications can get sent out, perhaps though a "wave" system of sending out applications.

 

[jessk2015]

UTHSCSA vs UF Gainesville?

My priorities are almost all related to the fact that I have young kids. Which would you rank higher if you had munchkins in tow?


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[clibby]

I agree that this expounds the problem of sending out too many applications, but programs divulging what they are looking for is probably never going to happen - the fact is that for most programs, they offer interviews to a wide range of applicants in terms of scores, experiences, etc. It's not enough to say "we consider all board scores" vs "we don't consider applications without at least a 230 step 1 score" because almost everybody is in the former category. Nobody interviews just people with crazy high scores and nobody only interviews people with low scores.

We want people to apply to a mix of programs - programs which get lots of applicants and those that don't receive as many (or I guess in this age of everybody getting lots of applicants, programs that tend to be ranked highly on applicants lists and those that tend to get ranked lower). We just know that we would get similar match results if everybody applied to 30 programs as when everybody applies to 60.

Transparency in specifically what each program is looking for won't help if almost everybody interviews a wide range of applicants (and when we are blind to our SLOEs, objective application scoring measures, etc.). Ultimately I think the only solution to sending out more and more applications is going to be to arbitrarily set a limit on how many applications can get sent out, perhaps though a "wave" system of sending out applications.

I don't think it is going to happen and I understand wanting diversity of experiences in a program. My point was that it fuels the feeling of needing to send out more applications. While we know that if only 30 apps are sent instead of 60 most students would get similar interviews, we just are not always sure which 30 to apply to and there are always stories of low teir applicants getting dream interviews. I think we could do either a Match for interviews or standardizing all the interview days across all programs (i.e. only Tuesdays and Thursdays from Nov-January excluding holiday weeks), so you can only go on a max of 18-20 interviews if you go on every allowed interview day. Maxing out the number of applications you can send hurts students who are below average or couples matching and does not limit the number of interviews the top applicants go on.

 

[SpacemanSpifff]

As a carribean medical student, I have many many colleagues of mine that failed step 1. Someone recover and some don't. However those that did fail were able to provide reasons in their personal statement that explained these failures and their success thereafter on second attempts. My school is a US accredited MD school. We mostly all came from the US. Many of my colleagues have received wonderful interviews at Denver, vandy, cincy even after failing step 1 once...

Define "many".

 

[deleted813736]

Define "many".

2 of my classmates whom failed step exam received Vanderbilt interviews in a emergency and will be couples matching together into EM

1 of those 2 received a Cincy interview

3 of us (1 failure on step 1) received a Denver interview.

 

[ajh1983]

As a carribean medical student, I have many many colleagues of mine that failed step 1. Someone recover and some don't. However those that did fail were able to provide reasons in their personal statement that explained these failures and their success thereafter on second attempts. My school is a US accredited MD school. We mostly all came from the US. Many of my colleagues have received wonderful interviews at Denver, vandy, cincy even after failing step 1 once. They put forth effort in their out of towns, received excellent letters, and even had attendings make phone calls for them. Although it may not seem 'fair' for IMGs to get interviews here, we put in the same amount of effort and time to be where we are. As an applicant with step scores over 1 SD deviation below average for EM, I interviewed at northwestern which is considered 'top tier' and the reason I received that interview was STRICTLY because of my letters. They verbalized this to me during my interviews. Someone with 210s step scores will still likely pass EM boards as someone with 250s. Once they know you are capable of passing EM boards and not shaming the schools with a fail, it's all equal.


It seems DO schools are popping out of no where with class sizes of 200+ and 300+ making MDs a commodity. I wouldn't be suprirised if a few years down the road, carribean US accredited MD schools have higher pull than DO students.

Huge lol. Alright that's enough let's get back to rank lists.

 

[6yearmedstud]

UTHSCSA vs UF Gainesville?

My priorities are almost all related to the fact that I have young kids. Which would you rank higher if you had munchkins in tow?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Seems like just based off strength of public school districts Gainesville has the upper hand by a good amount

 

[startupquick]

2 of my classmates whom failed step exam received Vanderbilt interviews in a emergency and will be couples matching together into EM

1 of those 2 received a Cincy interview

3 of us (1 failure on step 1) received a Denver interview.

Nope.

No.

And never.

These programs have so many fantastic applicants that they would auto screen out every Caribbean grad.

And most failures on steps.

Talking nonsense here

 

[doggydog]

To hopefully change the topic completely...

How highly are people valuing shift length? I certainly have a preference, but I feel like I have many more other things that I care about more and I honestly feel like I will adapt to anything.

I also don't honestly remember which programs are 8 v. 9 v. 10 v. 12 hour shifts (which turn into 14 hour shifts).

 

[clibby]

Too many other factors come into play for me than 8 vs 9 vs 10 that I didn't even make note of it. 12s, however, are a negative to me that I did consider. I don't want to hate myself and the cognitive fatigue after 8 hours of a shift is dangerous for patients and learning. I did aways at places that did both 8s/10s and 12s. With 8s, 9s, and 10s there is light at the end of the tunnel when you get tired. 12s don't afford you that.

Some people prefer the fewer shifts, but apparently I am not one of them.

 

[Frazier]

12's made their way toward the bottom of my list.

My home rotation did 8 hour shifts... comfortable.

Aways did 10s... uncomfortable (but doable).

No need to go further.

I'm actively avoiding 12's... in residency and as attending.

I didn't personally observe programs with 12 hour shifts working less days than 9/10's... places like USF still cranking out >21 12's per month.

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

Yeah I'm pretty opposed to 12s, but I suppose if your replacement comes in at 10 hours that can help a little. If it's a program that you aren't supposed to be out the door after 12, nope. I just wish I remembered to ask that about my potential #1...

 

[doggydog]

Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 230+, Step 2: 250+, Comlex I and II: 650+
EM rotations: H/HP/H/H
Medical school region: Midwest
Anything else that made you more competitive: DO student, was told I had strong letters. Tons of community service. Top 15% class, SSP member (DO AOA equivalent)

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Location and Fit.

1) Presence Resurrection
Pros: Loved the feel I got from the program, strong PD, seemed to be a real advocate for the residents. Off service rotations seem strong, unopposed residency with no ortho or surgery.

Cons: Have to travel between multiple sites (makes it harder to pick a spot in Chicago to live). Lack of Sim

2) Rush
Pros: Loved the PD, one of the most genuine PDs I met on the trail. Emphasis on Sim. Big academic center in Chicago. Makes me less worried about them starting a residency. Trauma at Cook. Really my 1 or 2 could end up switching.

Con: New residency.

3) UICOMP
Pros: Spent a month here, residents seemed really well trained. Love the layout of the ED. Great Benefits. Peoria isnt as terrible as I was made to believe

Cons: Not as many job opportunities for SO or it would be higher.

4) Grand Rapids
Pros: Beautiful hospital. Integrated Peds experience. US is strong here. Large volume. Grand rapids seems to be up and coming city.

Cons: Not as many job opportunities for SO or it would be higher.

5) Southern Illinois
Pros: Smaller class size seemed like a big benefit, things could be personalized to your needs easier. Rotate at two hospitals which are 5 mins apart. Beautiful Sim center that is used probably the most out of places I interviewed.

Con: Springfield felt really small.

6) Western Michigan
Pros: EMS is huge here, loved the opportunity for flight. Two High volume EDs. Did an away here. ICU heavy.

Con: Not a huge fan of the large class size.

7) DMC Sinai Grace
Pros: Trauma and plenty of it. Newish ED and ICU. Large, busy urban ED with tons of sick people.

Cons: Residents seemed overworked, not as happy as other places I saw

8) Central Michigan
Pros: High volume for a community ED, have a fairly strong EMS presence. US seemed to be improving as well. Residents seemed very happy.

Cons: Saginaw. If I could move this program to a different location, It would be much higher on my list.

9) University of Buffalo
Pros: Strong US and EMS. Enjoyed the PD and the APD, seemed to be real assets.

Cons: Buffalo is cold and snowy. Having to travel to all of their sites in the snow seems difficult

10) UPMC Hamot
Pros: Smaller program, recently transitioned from 4-3 years (former AOA program). Felt like a good family feel between residents/attendings.

Cons: Erie, wasn't a fan of the city. Very little job opportunities for SO

11) Genesys
Honestly not sure if I will even rank here, had a very bad experience on interview day with 2 interviewers, really turned me off to the program in general.

Rest of the List:
Summa Akron - Cant decide to rank here or not, leaning towards not ranking with the whole fiasco.

 

[6yearmedstud]

Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 230+, Step 2: 250+, Comlex I and II: 650+
EM rotations: H/HP/H/H
Medical school region: Midwest
Anything else that made you more competitive: DO student, was told I had strong letters. Tons of community service. Top 15% class, SSP member (DO AOA equivalent)

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Location and Fit.

1) Presence Resurrection
Pros: Loved the feel I got from the program, strong PD, seemed to be a real advocate for the residents. Off service rotations seem strong, unopposed residency with no ortho or surgery.

Cons: Have to travel between multiple sites (makes it harder to pick a spot in Chicago to live). Lack of Sim

2) Rush
Pros: Loved the PD, one of the most genuine PDs I met on the trail. Emphasis on Sim. Big academic center in Chicago. Makes me less worried about them starting a residency. Trauma at Cook. Really my 1 or 2 could end up switching.

Con: New residency.

3) UICOMP
Pros: Spent a month here, residents seemed really well trained. Love the layout of the ED. Great Benefits. Peoria isnt as terrible as I was made to believe

Cons: Not as many job opportunities for SO or it would be higher.

4) Grand Rapids
Pros: Beautiful hospital. Integrated Peds experience. US is strong here. Large volume. Grand rapids seems to be up and coming city.

Cons: Not as many job opportunities for SO or it would be higher.

5) Southern Illinois
Pros: Smaller class size seemed like a big benefit, things could be personalized to your needs easier. Rotate at two hospitals which are 5 mins apart. Beautiful Sim center that is used probably the most out of places I interviewed.

Con: Springfield felt really small.

6) Western Michigan
Pros: EMS is huge here, loved the opportunity for flight. Two High volume EDs. Did an away here. ICU heavy.

Con: Not a huge fan of the large class size.

7) DMC Sinai Grace
Pros: Trauma and plenty of it. Newish ED and ICU. Large, busy urban ED with tons of sick people.

Cons: Residents seemed overworked, not as happy as other places I saw

8) Central Michigan
Pros: High volume for a community ED, have a fairly strong EMS presence. US seemed to be improving as well. Residents seemed very happy.

Cons: Saginaw. If I could move this program to a different location, It would be much higher on my list.

9) University of Buffalo
Pros: Strong US and EMS. Enjoyed the PD and the APD, seemed to be real assets.

Cons: Buffalo is cold and snowy. Having to travel to all of their sites in the snow seems difficult

10) UPMC Hamot
Pros: Smaller program, recently transitioned from 4-3 years (former AOA program). Felt like a good family feel between residents/attendings.

Cons: Erie, wasn't a fan of the city. Very little job opportunities for SO

11) Genesys
Honestly not sure if I will even rank here, had a very bad experience on interview day with 2 interviewers, really turned me off to the program in general.

Rest of the List:
Summa Akron - Cant decide to rank here or not, leaning towards not ranking with the whole fiasco.

Awesome input thanks! If I remember correctly, both rush and presence take part in these 12 hour shifts. Does anyone know how much? I know presence was at one site only.

 

[deleted813736]

Awesome input thanks! If I remember correctly, both rush and presence take part in these 12 hour shifts. Does anyone know how much? I know presence was at one site only.

Rush will start with 12s with opportunity to change this in the following year (your 2nd year) if residents vote on it to happen. Wasn't really clear on if these 12s are the 12s where a relief comes in at 11 hours or at 12 hours...which kinda would suck if its 12 as kinesiologynerd was saying. Presence had 1 site that does 12s, one with 10s, one with 9s. It was somewhat confusing.

 

[FirefighterDoc]

Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 230+, Step 2: 250+, Comlex I and II: 650+
EM rotations: H/HP/H/H
Medical school region: Midwest
Anything else that made you more competitive: DO student, was told I had strong letters. Tons of community service. Top 15% class, SSP member (DO AOA equivalent)

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Location and Fit.

1) Presence Resurrection
Pros: Loved the feel I got from the program, strong PD, seemed to be a real advocate for the residents. Off service rotations seem strong, unopposed residency with no ortho or surgery.

Cons: Have to travel between multiple sites (makes it harder to pick a spot in Chicago to live). Lack of Sim

2) Rush
Pros: Loved the PD, one of the most genuine PDs I met on the trail. Emphasis on Sim. Big academic center in Chicago. Makes me less worried about them starting a residency. Trauma at Cook. Really my 1 or 2 could end up switching.

Con: New residency.

3) UICOMP
Pros: Spent a month here, residents seemed really well trained. Love the layout of the ED. Great Benefits. Peoria isnt as terrible as I was made to believe

Cons: Not as many job opportunities for SO or it would be higher.

4) Grand Rapids
Pros: Beautiful hospital. Integrated Peds experience. US is strong here. Large volume. Grand rapids seems to be up and coming city.

Cons: Not as many job opportunities for SO or it would be higher.

5) Southern Illinois
Pros: Smaller class size seemed like a big benefit, things could be personalized to your needs easier. Rotate at two hospitals which are 5 mins apart. Beautiful Sim center that is used probably the most out of places I interviewed.

Con: Springfield felt really small.

6) Western Michigan
Pros: EMS is huge here, loved the opportunity for flight. Two High volume EDs. Did an away here. ICU heavy.

Con: Not a huge fan of the large class size.

7) DMC Sinai Grace
Pros: Trauma and plenty of it. Newish ED and ICU. Large, busy urban ED with tons of sick people.

Cons: Residents seemed overworked, not as happy as other places I saw

8) Central Michigan
Pros: High volume for a community ED, have a fairly strong EMS presence. US seemed to be improving as well. Residents seemed very happy.

Cons: Saginaw. If I could move this program to a different location, It would be much higher on my list.

9) University of Buffalo
Pros: Strong US and EMS. Enjoyed the PD and the APD, seemed to be real assets.

Cons: Buffalo is cold and snowy. Having to travel to all of their sites in the snow seems difficult

10) UPMC Hamot
Pros: Smaller program, recently transitioned from 4-3 years (former AOA program). Felt like a good family feel between residents/attendings.

Cons: Erie, wasn't a fan of the city. Very little job opportunities for SO

11) Genesys
Honestly not sure if I will even rank here, had a very bad experience on interview day with 2 interviewers, really turned me off to the program in general.

Rest of the List:
Summa Akron - Cant decide to rank here or not, leaning towards not ranking with the whole fiasco.

I'm really curious if I know you. I think we go to the same school. I know this was submitted anonymously, but I had a question if you see this and wouldn't mind PMing me.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[em_2017]

Rush will start with 12s with opportunity to change this in the following year (your 2nd year) if residents vote on it to happen. Wasn't really clear on if these 12s are the 12s where a relief comes in at 11 hours or at 12 hours...which kinda would suck if its 12 as kinesiologynerd was saying. Presence had 1 site that does 12s, one with 10s, one with 9s. It was somewhat confusing.

That's not correct. Rush will have 9h shifts (8 +1 overlap) on weekdays and 12h on weekends (weekends being subject to change per first class). 18 total shifts a month.

 

[deleted109597]

Worst. Ranklist. Thread. Ever.

Please keep this thread to ranklists. There is another thread dedicated to discussion of this match cycle. Please use that other thread to keep this thread helpful for future classes. Also, remember that little is gained by listing your rank list without explaining why you liked or didn't like programs - this is easily the most important factor.

Where have the mods gone????

I'm right here. And I've had to deal with more reports from this thread than the rest of the forum combined. So I'll say it just one time at this point. Ranklists ONLY. Anything else gets deleted.

 

[doggydog]

Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 248, Step 2: 252
EM rotations: H/P
Medical school region: Southeast
Anything else that made you more competitive: Gold Humanism

1) UAB:
Did a rotation here. Great program that really pushes residents to be independent. Interns are responsible for running a pod pretty much on their own. Residents and leadership are down to earth and love to teach, and all the residents I interacted with on the rotation were fantastic clinically.

2) Vanderbilt:
Absolutely loved the educational environment here. Residents seemed happy and relaxed, and there are lots of opportunities for research/international experiences.

3) UNC:
This program is amazing. The dual hospital system seems great for learning both community and academic practice and PD was very approachable. Residents were great and seemed genuinely happy.

4) Greenville Health:
Was very impressed by the setup of this program, all faculty was very enthusiastic. A great opportunity to get in on the ground floor of a great program, but still a lot of unknowns here.

5) U of Arkansas:
Seems like a great place to train, but programs seems run mostly by the dept chair and not as much the PD who seemed a bit disorganized. Residents were all really enthusiastic.

6) MUSC Charleston:
PD was hilarious and residents were approachable/happy. Relatively small program. Really enjoyed interviewing here, has a lot to offer and no real cons in my opinion, but just didn't offer anything more than the places in my top 5.

7) UT Murfreesboro:
Seems like a good place to train but still has some kinks to work out as far as trauma is concerned. Lots of good perks and in a good location.

8) Duke:
Really expected to like this place more than I did. The PD is AMAZING. Residents seemed a little hung up on the prestige of the place and a few comments they made gave me concern that they weren't trained to succeed outside of an academic environment.

9) UT Chattanooga:
This interview day was super weird and the residents made negative comments about other departments to an uncomfortable extent. May have just caught them on a bad day.

10) U of Mississippi:
This place is great, but Jackson not so much.

11) Georgetown:
An amazing program, but can't afford to live in DC! No real complaints besides that, but just can't get past COL.

 

[carbonizedeyesockets]

To hopefully change the topic completely...

How highly are people valuing shift length? I certainly have a preference, but I feel like I have many more other things that I care about more and I honestly feel like I will adapt to anything.

I also don't honestly remember which programs are 8 v. 9 v. 10 v. 12 hour shifts (which turn into 14 hour shifts).

There is published evidence that you will see more patients per hour on 9s than 12s. Considering that seeing more patients is better for your education, it makes little sense to work all-12s in residency. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18774044)

 

[TundraDoc]

Program is critical care heavy and seems to have the strongest critical care training of my interview locations.

Your experience confirmed most of my impressions while interviewing at UT-Austin. However, it seemed like the MICU rotation was a bit tumultuous at the time of my interview. Anyone have updates or clarification of how that's working out? Thanks!

 

[Katalysticfish]

.

 

[clibby]

Baystate vs. Albany Med? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

What criteria do you value more because everyone has different priorities? Albany is way better to live in than Springfield if location matters. I can't comment on specifics of the programs, but whenever people pit programs against each other, they need to have some criteria by which you are evaluating them.

 

[littlejuan]

.

 

[LilKangaroo]

Would consider myself a pretty average to below average applicant.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 230s, Step 2: 250s
EM rotations: H/H/H
Med school (and rotations) in the Midwest
Not AOA; probably bottom quarter in pre-clinicals, clinical grades pushed me to about the median of my class
3rd grades were a mix of H/HP/P
Very involved in organized medicine at a national level.
Lots of a research in a different field, had a change of heart in 3rd year.
Many comments about strong letters.
My mother had a pretty bad accident and her recovery was long and difficult and really affected me emotionally and academically. I went part time in my second year of medical school to help my family take care of her. Not a true LOA, but bad enough.

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
I only applied to 3 year programs in the Midwest.
Ended up wanting a more academic environment.
Pediatric experience is important to me.
I wanted to work with very sick patient populations.
It mattered more how I got along with faculty than residents (it was rare for me to have a bad interaction with residents).

1. Medical College of Wisconsin
(+) Very well run traumas (one of my attendings at an away site was trained there and told me about it), best pediatric experience I've seen on the trail - 60k volume in the Peds ED, Froedert used to be the county hospital and continues to serve the population, beautiful campus
(-) I don't like Milwaukee

2. Mayo
(+) I drank the kool aid, seems like a great place to learn how to deal with very sick people, great work life balance (only two rotations with call), got along with the residents
(-) Rochester is kind of a strange town, I think there is enough to do for fun, but worried about spouse's job opportunities

3. University Hospitals Case Western
(+) New PD and Chair were my favorite people on the trail, great energy from both of them, really felt like home to me, loved Cleveland and NE Ohio in general
(-) Just became a Level I Trauma with anesthesia at the airway (said they would get it to only ED at airway within a year), transitions are scary times to jump into a program, did not care for the old PD who still works there

4. University of Kentucky
(+) Very, very sick population of patients from a large encatchment area, loved Lexington
(-) Kentucky is very conservative, spouse does NOT want to go here

5. Detroit Receiving Hospital Wayne State
(+) Great reputation, really feels like down and dirty ER, great relationship with trauma surgery service, loved Detroit
(-) May be a little too down and dirty with just curtains in between patients (not necessarily my philosophy on patient care), didn't click with the faculty as much as I would have hoped

6. Henry Ford
(+) Again, great reputation, more money than DRH, great academic center with plenty of research and EM big wigs
(-) Not a very good pediatric experience at all (actually gave me a pit in my stomach when they talked about how little they do with kids), hospital was kept up well, but very old fashioned (trivial, I know)

Then my 3 rotations

Rest of list in alphabetical but not rank order (I don't think I'll fall below my rotations):
Beaumont, Mizzou, Nebraska, Penn State, SIU, UT Murfreesboro, Western Michigan

Not ranking:
Summa Akron

Invited, did not attend (due to not wanting to live in that location and having enough interviews):
Presence Resurrection, Advocate Christ, Mercy St. Vincent

Applied to 40 3-year programs in the Midwest, got interviews offers at a total of 20 after withdrawing from 10 in late October before hearing anything back.

 

[doggydog]

Would consider myself a pretty average to below average applicant.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 230s, Step 2: 250s
EM rotations: H/H/H
Med school (and rotations) in the Midwest
Not AOA; probably bottom quarter in pre-clinicals, clinical grades pushed me to about the median of my class
3rd grades were a mix of H/HP/P
Very involved in organized medicine at a national level.
Lots of a research in a different field, had a change of heart in 3rd year.
Many comments about strong letters.
My mother had a pretty bad accident and her recovery was long and difficult and really affected me emotionally and academically. I went part time in my second year of medical school to help my family take care of her. Not a true LOA, but bad enough.

Get out of here with that noise. I bolded the parts for future applicants that show you are above average, at worst you are average.

I really appreciate you posting a detailed list.

 

[RainbowOtterz]

I have a fairly strange question (maybe). Is Trump and what is happening in America factoring into anyone else's ranklists?

Edit: This is not meant to cause another fight or anything. Honestly. Just as a gay member of society from the south I feel that I am ranking programs in more Liberal cities and states higher than I think I would have previously. I just want to see if anyone feels the same way or I am taking crazy pills.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

Get out of here with that noise. I bolded the parts for future applicants that show you are above average, at worst you are average.

I really appreciate you posting a detailed list.

Wanted to second this. Three straight honors on em rotations is not "avg to below avg" coupled with a step 2 score in the 250s and a solid step 1. Sounds like he/she did well on clinical as well, and the only crappy thing was preclinical, which no ones gives a **** about.

Lilkangaroo you cleaned up and kicked some ass. I remain slightly bitter about how you seemed to get all my same interview sites about three weeks in advance (not that I followed that thread obsessively all through October or anything).

Keep hoppin buddy

 

[supinationpronation]

.

I have a fairly strange question (maybe). Is Trump and what is happening in America factoring into anyone else's ranklists?

Edit: This is not meant to cause another fight or anything. Honestly. Just as a gay member of society from the south I feel that I am ranking programs in more Liberal cities and states higher than I think I would have previously. I just want to see if anyone feels the same way or I am taking crazy pills.

 

[jessk2015]

Ugh, I still have so many questions! I thought I had my rank list nearly solidified based on feels and COL, but the more I think about things, the more confused I get. A couple of Qs:

(1) Can anyone recommend a good resource for guesstimating take-home income after taxes in each state? Some salaries are more attractive than others, but then some states have better/non-existent state income tax, so I find it hard to really know what my paycheck will actually look like at each program. I know, I know, it's not recommended to pick a program based on salary, but if there is a significant difference I want to know about it.

(2) How much are people taking into account vacation days when ranking? It seems like there is a pretty big spread between programs, and I'm finding it hard to ignore that some programs report 4 weeks of vacation time, while others report 10 days. Worth factoring in or nah?

(3) Does anyone know what the deal is with San Antonio's vacation policy? Interview pamphlet says 2 weeks, website says 10 days, but website also says there are 10 sick days. Is that in addition to the 10 vacation days? Really specific question but if anyone happens to know I may develop very real and deep feelings for you.