Ravenclawforlife

2+ Year Member
Nov 6, 2015
13
10
Status
Physical Therapist
I think it is time that we start talking about the upcoming 2016 presidential election in the United States. With student debt for PTs rising I feel like we need to open up the discussion on some of the policy that these candidates are claiming to enact. Of course these are politicians that we are talking about so we need to take everything that they propose with a grain of salt but student loan reform and the medical reimbursement system are important issues to our profession. Together we can make a significant difference if we can get behind the best plan/candidate out there.

I think a straightforward rule for this thread should be that we stay on PT relevant content- there are a lot of issues with every candidate so let's not lose ourselves in issues that don't directly relate to our profession.

Personally, I have only started to follow the plans and was not tuned in for the last election (I know, I am working on it this time around!). I would appreciate if anyone who posts would include relevant articles that they are pulling from, even if it is just for my benefit to make a more informed decision next November. I appreciate whenever I can login to the SDN and read posts that are informative and backed by some sort of content on issues.

So who do you think is the best candidate for physical therapy and why?
 

truthseeker

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Sep 2, 2004
1,034
351
Status
I would never make my decision solely on how it affects PT. there are a zillion more important issues now than how our student loan debt is managed. IMO national security is a little more important.
 
Mar 21, 2014
241
154
Status
Physical Therapy Student
Bernie Sanders for a million reasons.

Www.feelthebern.org is one of the most beautifully laid out websites I have ever seen for a political candidate. Browse based on how your own interests guide you.

If you want a couple of specific reasons, I think he has the best plan to address the student debt crisis and is the least likely to get us into more ground wars in the Middle East.
 
  • Like
Reactions: engmedpt
About the Ads

truthseeker

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Sep 2, 2004
1,034
351
Status
Sure, free everything for everyone. How can that not win over voters? free health care, free college, subsidies for housing, lower interest rates on student loans . . . The problem is, all of that is unsustainable. Someday when you are earning a paycheck, you will eventually feel a little put off by the numbers of people resting in the social hammock rather than bouncing off of the social safety net.

there are too many people sitting in the hammock because it pays more to be on welfare than it does to get up and go to work. It shouldn't even be close but if it is, why go to work when you get the same or nearly the same playing Xbox all day?
 
Mar 21, 2014
241
154
Status
Physical Therapy Student
What are your thoughts on income inequality, corporate welfare and corporations who aren't paying their share?

"Wealth Inequality In America"
Top 10 Corporate Tax dodgers
And single payer healthcare?

CNN "US Health Care Rated Most Expensive and DEAD Last in Services"


What the U.S. Can Learn About Health Care from Other Countries


Bernie Sanders On Universal Health Care (The 25 of 26 industrialized countries have it, we are the ONLY one that doesn't):

 
Last edited:

truthseeker

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Sep 2, 2004
1,034
351
Status
free everything. give it away, your services are worth nothing. wealth inequality is a talent/motivation/good choices inequality. I shouldn't make the same as a neurosurgeon. the burger flipper at MacDonalds shouldn't make as much as me. universal health care ensures overutilization. The more people have skin in the game, the more responsibly they spend their healthcare dollar. our system is outrageously overpriced but it, IMO, is because the provider of the service is too far removed from the consumer of the service. In order to get $30, I have to bill $60. the poor schlub with no insurance has to pay the $60. Pay me for my services directly and the price is $30. BOOM, health care costs go down 50%.

Ask some Canadians what they think about the lines and delays they have with their healthcare? Why do you think there are so many that come to the states for knee replacements and even cardiac stent placement? The wait is ridiculous in Canada where its all free.

Name ONE thing. ONE that the government does efficiently. What makes you think that this is the thing? Pretty large portion of the national economy to gamble with don't you think?

I am done with this thread, sorry, but I don't have the mental energy to deal with anyone who fails to look at both sides of an argument. I'm not going to change your mind so best of luck in the future.
 
Mar 21, 2014
241
154
Status
Physical Therapy Student
All I did was provide my side of the argument and ask for your opinion on a few specific items. I fail to see how I was being close minded and refusing to see things from another perspective by attempting to open a dialogue with you. I'm actually pretty open minded.

Nobody is advocating for a pure socialist society. Nobody is saying a fast food worker deserves as much as a PT or a PT as much as a neurosurgeon, as you hyperbolically stated. I could get into details but you've already made it abundantly clear that you are the one not willing to have a conversation. And that's fine. But don't put that on me.

I apologize if my posting of background info came across as failing to look at both sides of the argument. Stay well.
 
Last edited:

engmedpt

5+ Year Member
Mar 31, 2014
600
231
Northeast
Status
Physical Therapy Student
I would never make my decision solely on how it affects PT. there are a zillion more important issues now than how our student loan debt is managed. IMO national security is a little more important.
Student debt comes back and affects the entire economy. Less babies, less mortgages, less eating out, less cars, less consumption in general and moving back in with parents until age 35. When bull*** interest rates and your generation keep upping college and grad costs past inflation coupled with low balling grads based on lack of "experience" in almost any field I can think of, we are strapping people to debt nondischargeable to bankruptcy and it has longterm consequences. Id rather the country be able to take care of itself before even thinking about a foreign attack. You're aware that hardworking millenials are surviving in a different economy than you correct? People have student debt priorities in line with groceries, cant invest, can barely build credit, and cant be consumers in the economy.
 
Last edited:

engmedpt

5+ Year Member
Mar 31, 2014
600
231
Northeast
Status
Physical Therapy Student
free everything. give it away, your services are worth nothing. wealth inequality is a talent/motivation/good choices inequality. I shouldn't make the same as a neurosurgeon. the burger flipper at MacDonalds shouldn't make as much as me. universal health care ensures overutilization. The more people have skin in the game, the more responsibly they spend their healthcare dollar. our system is outrageously overpriced but it, IMO, is because the provider of the service is too far removed from the consumer of the service. In order to get $30, I have to bill $60. the poor schlub with no insurance has to pay the $60. Pay me for my services directly and the price is $30. BOOM, health care costs go down 50%.

Ask some Canadians what they think about the lines and delays they have with their healthcare? Why do you think there are so many that come to the states for knee replacements and even cardiac stent placement? The wait is ridiculous in Canada where its all free.

Name ONE thing. ONE that the government does efficiently. What makes you think that this is the thing? Pretty large portion of the national economy to gamble with don't you think?

I am done with this thread, sorry, but I don't have the mental energy to deal with anyone who fails to look at both sides of an argument. I'm not going to change your mind so best of luck in the future.
Do you have any idea how the housing bubble went down? Or why the debt collective and occupy wall street exist? Or how drug companies up their price bc they are the only manufacturer of something when initial research was already funded by taxpayers aka the public.......Talent? Give me a break. It's greed for massive sectors of our economy.


For the second bold, you can thank all of your peers in healthcare fields for that. Hopefully we don't get screwed on reimbursements.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BiffTheFlashRogers

truthseeker

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Sep 2, 2004
1,034
351
Status
wow. that was powerful. And yes I know how the housing bubble went down, MY generation had nothing to do with it. It is the PC crowd in the government that decided that everyone should get a housing loan even if there was no evidence that they would ever pay it back. that resulted in a lot of bad loans that were defaulted on and POP goes the bubble. Same thing is brewing on the student loan crisis. Student loans are easy to get so everyone gets them. Not everyone, but many live a little higher on the hog than they should because they are borrowing money to do so. When there is no market pressure for the colleges to lower tuition, why would they? When just about anyone can obtain enough loaned money to pay for tuition, why should they lower the cost?

As far as the cost of healthcare . . . that is a long long discussion but suffice it to say that it is the non-providers of healthcare who are employed in health care that drive up the costs. e.g. bookkeepers, compliance officers, billing departments, lawyers, layers and layers of bureaucrats in private insurance and medicare/Medicaid, not to mention fraud. My charges have nothing to do with greed. They have everything to do with staying afloat. And for the record, I purposefully keep mine down because I live in a town where there is competition.

No argument with desiring to be a country that is able to take care of itself. Maybe we should do that before taking care of the world. The only problem with that is, we are part of the world and there are crazy people who are trying to destroy us. Maybe some of those Syrian refugees or some of the people crossing the southern border. Off topic, but be careful who you blame for the mess we are in.
 

engmedpt

5+ Year Member
Mar 31, 2014
600
231
Northeast
Status
Physical Therapy Student
Same thing is brewing on the student loan crisis
The problem with this is that we aren't willingly taking on the debt. There aren't enough jobs and the economy changes faster than education can keep up. Everyone on this forum is going to JOBS. We're forced to take the debt because the alternative is sales or starbucks barista. At this current point in time, PT is a better longterm investment. The trajectory however....is not sustainable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BiffTheFlashRogers

truthseeker

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Sep 2, 2004
1,034
351
Status
another trajectory is to be a plumber or an electrician. they make probably more money than we do with 2 years of school at a trade school.
 
Mar 21, 2014
241
154
Status
Physical Therapy Student
another trajectory is to be a plumber or an electrician. they make probably more money than we do with 2 years of school at a trade school.
A quick google search shows plumbers and electricians only make <$50k on average. Which is still solid for two years of trade school and arguably a better debt-income ratio.

I agree, we don't need everyone and their brother going to college. People don't need to be dropping tens of thousands of dollars (or rather taking on tens of thousands of dollars in debt) for art degrees and the like. But I think it's safe to say that the student loan situation in this country has become predatory and will have horrific long term consequences. It's crippling an entire generation.

In our case, I get that nobody is forcing us to go to PT school. I understand the market forces allowing tuition to rise. But at some point, something needs to be done. Across the board, the greed is not sustainable. Everyone going to trade school or starting "careers" out of HS isn't the answer. We've created a society where college degrees are almost mandatory to get any sort of real job, but the cost is too high to not take on debt in most cases. That's a vicious, vicious cycle.

(And lest I sound like a lazy, spoiled millennial: I bit the bullet, went to a state school and worked through HS and undergrad. Between that and help from mom and dad I escaped without undergrad debt. Got into a state program and am working to minimize debt from grad school too. That just isn't possible for everyone though, for a lot of reasons.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: vigilant1124
Mar 21, 2014
241
154
Status
Physical Therapy Student
And @truthseeker, if you'd be willing to share, I'm curious who you're supporting in 2016 and how their platforms impact the topics that have been brought up here so far, if you'd be willing to share. Always down to learn more about policies I might not be familiar with yet :)
 

truthseeker

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Sep 2, 2004
1,034
351
Status
Biff, First you said "college degrees are almost mandatory to get any sort of real job" My uncle is the richest guy in my family and he was a plumber. So maybe your definition of a "real job" is different than mine.
On to who I am supporting: Whichever Republican gets the nomination will get my vote. I like Cruz, Rubio, Trump, and Chris Christie impressed me during the last debate. I am sick of political correctness. I am sick of pulling the wagon, it is getting way too heavy. I am sick of the bureaucracy of the US government re-defining the numbers to be whatever the left needs them to be. I am sick of 1 person complaining and 1000 having to change.
How do their platforms impact this discussion: the right is clearly more interested in how the market influences our lives. yes, it seems all politicians will line the pockets of their friends and that is flat wrong, but at least the right understands and does not dismiss the power of the market.

Go after the bad guys. don't legislate so that the rule followers have to change their lives. (you can apply that to terrorists, gun owners, or to fraudulent health care practitioners, I don't care, the concept is the same) The PC left pulls at threads until the whole garment falls apart. I am not impressed with anyone in congress after the recent budget deal where the republicans hold majorities in both house and senate and yet gave the left everything they wanted and more in SPITE of running on the exact opposite. If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, I suggest you do because I am about to disappear.
 
Mar 21, 2014
241
154
Status
Physical Therapy Student
Biff, First you said "college degrees are almost mandatory to get any sort of real job" My uncle is the richest guy in my family and he was a plumber. So maybe your definition of a "real job" is different than mine.
Possibly (?) poor phrasing on my end, but I think it was pretty clear what I meant: many, if not most, real jobs (i.e. potential lifelong careers) require a college degree in today's world. Obviously not all. That's why I said "almost." Again, possibly not the best way of wording it, but not too tough to tell what I was saying. No need to try to make me look like I'm bashing blue collar jobs.

Really disappointed by the hostility from you on this thread. You've been great all over this site on other posts as long as I've been on here. I get that people get heated over politics, but there's no need to be obnoxious. It's supposed to be a discussion.

I'm out for real this time. Didn't get into this with the intent of conversation going down this road. Merry Christmas, y'all.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: PTX2
About the Ads