2017 NAPLEX results: bad, real bad

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I don't know if I agree. Schools aren't omniscient, they will never be able to completely screen out people who can't pass the NAPLEX.

Regardless though, if the person can not pass they shouldn't be a pharmacist. You seem to think otherwise.

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I agree to a certain point, but even with these applications, public universities can select a cohort that is 88%+ without trying very hard at recruitment. However, we don't recruit on merit, we recruit on physical appearances and feelies. This is a huge problem right now in VA residency recruitment as there is a strong perception of bias especially school bias and social bias. When you have schools that recruit purely on numbers, it really is not that hard to get people who pass the boards, but whether you want them as pharmacists...

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Are some students ill-prepared by going to a second-rate school? By looking at these numbers, possibly.

That still doesn't take the onus off of them to make sure they are competent and well prepared to pass an exam they have FOUR years to prepare for. Just because you go to 'new school x' doesn't allow you to be a less competent pharmacist.
 
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The other major factor which I can tell in an hour is whether or not students took the time to work in a paid internship outside the requireds. There's something about the standards of getting paid that teach you all sorts of lessons school just can't. I see a much lower number of residency applications (I make it mandatory for fellowship ones where I will screen out anyone who does not have at least 500 hours from paid experience) that lack any paid experience in pharmacy prior to their residency application.

Spot on. I worked inpatient and outpatient during school. Paid for beer money, and allowed me to study less.
 
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Thank you for caring about the patient, Owl. You have the right priorities. It seems like many of the pre-pharm and pharm students are just in it for the money these days. The standards to get into pharmacy school has been lowered so much that students are failing and retaking multiple classes, then they can't even pass an easy Naplex exam. They get 5 tries to pass the Naplex! Someone who didn't even go to pharmacy school could probably pass it with 5 tries!

Someone in pre-pharmacy forum was bragging about how he got 13 Ds and 6 Fs in undergrad and still got accepted in pharmacy school. He was encouraging other people with multiple Ds and Fs to apply to pharmacy school. He then failed out of pharmacy school, and somehow convinced them to let him back in. I'm sorry but I do not want someone like that to become a practicing pharmacist. It's not that I wish bad upon those people, but I just think people like that should have never gotten into pharmacy school in the first place.

Some people are just not fit for certain careers. I could say I want to be a Navy SEAL but not even be able to do a pushup. Do you think I should still be allowed to be a Navy SEAL and put the other Navy SEAL's lives at risk and drag their name in the mud? If they let just anybody be a Navy SEAL, then they wouldn't be as great as they are now. That's the same with pharmacy. Subpar students and pharmacists are ruining this profession as much as these subpar schools opening up on every corner. I don't like the entitled attitudes I'm seeing among pre-pharmacy and pharmacy students. We are not owed anything. We have to work hard for it and earn it.

I 100% agree with you. I'm just pointing out that I assign the blame differently: if I was on an admissions committee or had any role in interviewing, I would have screened out this kid. I'm glad you brought this example up, because it demonstrates what I've been saying this entire thread: it's the fault of the schools. What kind of school looks at a student like this and admits them? Forgiving that mistake, the school makes another mistake by readmitting him after he fails out?

No wonder students are failing the NAPLEX in droves. This is the entire point I was trying to make.
 
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There is no applicant that is thinking to themselves about how they are going to be a terrible pharmacist and be incompetent and fail an exam. So you cannot blame the individual. But you sure can blame the schools for signing on anyone with a pulse and willing to sign away $200,000.

If this post doesn't make it clear I don't know what else to say because we will just be going round and round in circles.

I don't follow your logic at all. "There is no school thinking to themselves that they are going to graduate a bunch of students too incompetent to pass the naplex. Therefore you cannot blame the school." You see how ridiculous that claim is, right?

I just can't follow your line of thought that absolves the individual of any responsibility.

And I am sorry, I really wanted to let you have the last word. But I just couldn't resist responding!

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I 100% agree with you. I'm just pointing out that I assign the blame differently: if I was on an admissions committee or had any role in interviewing, I would have screened out this kid. I'm glad you brought this example up, because it demonstrates what I've been saying this entire thread: it's the fault of the schools. What kind of school looks at a student like this and admits them? Forgiving that mistake, the school makes another mistake by readmitting him after he fails out?

No wonder students are failing the NAPLEX in droves. This is the entire point I was trying to make.
Let it be said that whether we agree on everything or not, I still respect your opinion.

I agree with you that the schools are definitely to blame for a huge portion of the problem, but so are the individuals like that guy with the Ds and Fs. He had such a horribly entitled and arrogant attitude. You don't think the students are to blame when they get terrible grades and feel that they are entitled to get accepted to pharmacy school anyway? Another guy said he got 3 Fs and was outraged that he got kicked out of school. He came on SDN asking if we've ever sued a pharmacy school and won. He was going to sue the pharmacy school for dismissing him when he failed too many classes. Can you believe that?!?!?! You can't make this stuff up. I'm not trying to be mean. I'm seriously shocked at these people's attitudes, and disappointed that they are going to be pharmacists just like you and me! If they mess stuff up, patients and other healthcare providers are going to start losing trust in pharmacists in general. The more they have negative experiences with clueless pharmacists, the less trust they are going to have in the profession as a whole.

BTW, in my post, I said they should shut down the pharmacy schools with pass rates less than 88%. My plan would target both the terrible schools and the terrible students.

P.S. "Stay healthy!" ;):D You remember that? LOL.
 
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If schools don't raise their standards and admit fewer people or if the NAPLEX is not made easier then ACPE will have to put some schools on probabtion or they risk losing their accreditation function. The ABA has been warned that if they don't actually hold law schools to their written standards they will lose their ability to accredit schools. When your students are taking out $200,000 in government loans and can't even get their license the Department of Education is going to wonder why the accreditation agency isn't doing their job.
 
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If schools don't raise their standards and admit fewer people or if the NAPLEX is not made easier then ACPE will have to put some schools on probabtion or they risk losing their accreditation function. The ABA has been warned that if they don't actually hold law schools to their written standards they will lose their ability to accredit schools. When your students are taking out $200,000 in government loans and can't even get their license the Department of Education is going to wonder why the accreditation agency isn't doing their job.
Wonderful, what can we do to facilitate this?
 
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I agree to a certain point, but even with these applications, public universities can select a cohort that is 88%+ without trying very hard at recruitment. However, we don't recruit on merit, we recruit on physical appearances and feelies. This is a huge problem right now in VA residency recruitment as there is a strong perception of bias especially school bias and social bias. When you have schools that recruit purely on numbers, it really is not that hard to get people who pass the boards, but whether you want them as pharmacists...
Are you saying we shouldn't admit people based on merit, but on whether we would like to have them as fellow pharmacists? My school took into consideration GPA, PCAT, and interview. They wanted the whole package, and it shows. Pass rates above 90% even with the changes in Naplex.
 
This is good news. I'd rather take a difficult exam.


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Are you saying we shouldn't admit people based on merit, but on whether we would like to have them as fellow pharmacists? My school took into consideration GPA, PCAT, and interview. They wanted the whole package, and it shows. Pass rates above 90% even with the changes in Naplex.

Yeah, your school actually Moneyball's the approach (stats balanced by interview as a sanity check), which is the right approach. There's too many schools though where their admissions process can and has been subverted for social reasons. Colorado got in serious trouble for that 10 years ago. But, it's really by the numbers if a number is what you want to target.
 
I took my 2015 NAPLEX after a night of partying. I was hungover and passed with a 103. I know the format has changed since then with more questions or something. But I feel like it shows anyone can pass?


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I 100% agr Notee with you. I'm just pointing out that I assign the blame differently: if I was on an admissions committee or had any role in interviewing, I would have screened out this kid. I'm glad you brought this example up, because it demonstrates what I've been saying this entire thread: it's the fault of the schools. What kind of school looks at a student like this and admits them? Forgiving that mistake, the school makes another mistake by readmitting him after he fails out?

No wonder students are failing the NAPLEX in droves. This is the entire point I was trying to make.

FYI, the school that he goes to (TTUHSC) does grade replacement for pre-reqs. He could have gotten all D's and F's then retaken them at a community college and gotten all B's or above. I'm surprised that they let him back in given the school's reputation for high standards and rigor.

Most schools care only about money. They'll accept subpar students to fill their seats and couldn't care less if you're $200k+ in debt and fail out or cannot pass the NAPLEX.
 
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Funny how my school has the lowest ranking of all the schools in my state yet has the highest pass rate by over 5%. Almost the highest in the country actually.
 
There will not be any changes to NAPLEX this year. The next change will be in 2018 with the new communication skills section. The change in November was a change to a non adaptive exam and increase in number of questions.

RxPrep has stated otherwise, so where are you getting your information?
 
Programs like MCP, St. John's, Long Island University, St. Louis College of Pharmacy, Albany College of Pharmacy (funny they all have volume 0-6 programs) should really curb their class sizes by increasing admissions standards but they won't unless ACPE cracks down but you know they won't because this is big $$$$$$$ for these degree mills. The value proposition of these programs really goes down (accessible pathway to PharmD for mediocre high school students and sadly in MA no option at a public university) if tuition rises in tandem with decreased class sizes, which would lead to a death spiral ideally. Rutgers admissions is comparable to admission to a good UC undergrad these days, but the other programs have easy admissions standards.

Same goes for Nova Southeastern and Midwestern and Roseman. All those programs have pass rates under 90% and are graduating 200+ students (except for LIU with 176 but their pass rate is pathetic at 75% for first-time test takers).

Why did St. John's number of first-time test-takers increase to 307 (82.74% pass rate) in 2016 from ~200 in previous years? They are trying to out-MCP MCP.

MCP's results are particularly pathetic but nothing surprising.

And just because a program is at a HBCU doesn't mean they have to **** the bed. See Howard vs. Hampton and Florida A&M.
 
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Let it be said that whether we agree on everything or not, I still respect your opinion.

I agree with you that the schools are definitely to blame for a huge portion of the problem, but so are the individuals like that guy with the Ds and Fs. He had such a horribly entitled and arrogant attitude. You don't think the students are to blame when they get terrible grades and feel that they are entitled to get accepted to pharmacy school anyway? Another guy said he got 3 Fs and was outraged that he got kicked out of school. He came on SDN asking if we've ever sued a pharmacy school and won. He was going to sue the pharmacy school for dismissing him when he failed too many classes. Can you believe that?!?!?! You can't make this stuff up. I'm not trying to be mean. I'm seriously shocked at these people's attitudes, and disappointed that they are going to be pharmacists just like you and me! If they mess stuff up, patients and other healthcare providers are going to start losing trust in pharmacists in general. The more they have negative experiences with clueless pharmacists, the less trust they are going to have in the profession as a whole.

BTW, in my post, I said they should shut down the pharmacy schools with pass rates less than 88%. My plan would target both the terrible schools and the terrible students.

P.S. "Stay healthy!" ;):D You remember that? LOL.

Definitely, and I think I made the mistake of typing too little where I didn't make my opinion completely clear. I do agree with you that the subpar students share some responsibility. Certainly, no one should feel entitled that just because they were admitted into a program that they should be able to jerk off and be guaranteed a successful future. They have responsibilities as well and they are no better than the schools.

What I was trying to emphasize is that the schools have the keys to the locks, and they are freely handing those keys out motivated purely by profit and greed. There are scrubs everywhere in life, but the schools are passing (literally and figuratively) these scrubs off as competent students: it's not just kids with 20 F's and D's failing the NAPLEX, there are plenty of posters with a ~3 ish GPA average failing the NAPLEX.

So increasing the NAPLEX will definitely curb some of these students and prevent them from being pharmacists, but it's a waste of society's resources. They could well have been good menial laborers, but were polished and dressed up for roles that they could not handle by ever increasing pharmacy schools. The schools have their money, they don't care. For every scrub that fails out another 3 are ready to take his place. By tying in NAPLEX performance to school accreditation (in a serious manner), schools will have accountability and have to start taking our profession seriously.

Is the patient important? Yes. Is safety and ethics important? Yes. But as you can see from trends in the schools, theory and honor isn't enough to curb greed. That is why we have to go to the root of the problem and punish these schools. Preventing scrubs from passing the NAPLEX is like plucking off a few leaves off of a weed and leaving the stem (the schools) there. It's not even a temporary fix, worsens society, and does not stop more and more weeds from popping up.

Hope this longer posts makes my opinions more clear. STAY HEALTHY BRO
 
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I just noticed this too - what's up with the spread between # of NAPLEX first-time attempts and # of MPJE first time attempts for some of these programs?

Look at both UTs (Austin and UTHSC)

UT Austin - 115 first-time NAPLEX test-takers (2016), 113 for MPJE
UTHSC - 150 NAPLEX, 109 MPJE


And then some ones with bad outcomes:

Roseman - 228 NAPLEX (184 passed), 87 MPJE (!)
MCP Boston - 327 NAPLEX (250 passed), 176 MPJE
MCP Worcester - 264 NAPLEX (170 passed), 86 MPJE (!)

I gave the UT Austin example because it makes sense for most grads to take NAPLEX and MPJE... but why take NAPLEX and not MPJE even if you fail NAPLEX? The goal is to become licensed, right? Maybe most UT grads stay in state and the MPJE count data is not capturing exams taken in other states? Aside from Californians not taking MPJE
 
I just noticed this too - what's up with the spread between # of NAPLEX first-time attempts and # of MPJE first time attempts for some of these programs?

I gave the UT Austin example because it makes sense for most grads to take NAPLEX and MPJE... but why take NAPLEX and not MPJE even if you fail NAPLEX? The goal is to become licensed, right? Maybe most UT grads stay in state and the MPJE count data is not capturing exams taken in other states? Aside from Californians not taking MPJE
I believe the discrepancy is precisely the fact that many students have returned to California and are not taking the MPJE.
 
I just noticed this too - what's up with the spread between # of NAPLEX first-time attempts and # of MPJE first time attempts for some of these programs?

Look at both UTs (Austin and UTHSC)

UT Austin - 115 first-time NAPLEX test-takers (2016), 113 for MPJE
UTHSC - 150 NAPLEX, 109 MPJE


And then some ones with bad outcomes:

Roseman - 228 NAPLEX (184 passed), 87 MPJE (!)
MCP Boston - 327 NAPLEX (250 passed), 176 MPJE
MCP Worcester - 264 NAPLEX (170 passed), 86 MPJE (!)

I gave the UT Austin example because it makes sense for most grads to take NAPLEX and MPJE... but why take NAPLEX and not MPJE even if you fail NAPLEX? The goal is to become licensed, right? Maybe most UT grads stay in state and the MPJE count data is not capturing exams taken in other states? Aside from Californians not taking MPJE
Yes, I think it's data for in-state mpje. How else would the schools be able to compile the data? Even if they found out where someone is getting licensed (since they usually have to send copy of diploma or proof of graduation), there would be 2 issues with including out of state folks in the data for the rest:

1. MPJE difficulty level is not the same for every state.
2. Schools are not teaching pharmacy law for other states, so they shouldn't be responsible if someone fails. It shouldn't bring down their stats either.
 
FYI, the school that he goes to (TTUHSC) does grade replacement for pre-reqs. He could have gotten all D's and F's then retaken them at a community college and gotten all B's or above. I'm surprised that they let him back in given the school's reputation for high standards and rigor.

Most schools care only about money. They'll accept subpar students to fill their seats and couldn't care less if you're $200k+ in debt and fail out or cannot pass the NAPLEX.
Did the mods remove that thread? It was soooo entertaining.

Between him not having common sense (or a functioning conscience) and the crazy people (including one who wanted to do a 3 hour commute. "Stay Healthy") getting their threads removed, I'm starting to wonder if psychiatric evals should be a part of the pharmacy school interviews.
 
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I believe the discrepancy is precisely the fact that many students have returned to California and are not taking the MPJE.
Not just Cali.

https://nabp.pharmacy/programs/mpje/faqs/#required said:
Which states require the MPJE?
Currently, 50 boards of pharmacy require passing the MPJE as a component of licensure. The 4 boards that do not utilize the MPJE for their law examinations are:

  • Arkansas
  • California
  • Puerto Rico
  • Virgin Islands
 
Did the mods remove that thread? It was soooo entertaining.

Between him not having common sense (or a functioning conscience) and the crazy people (including one who wanted to do a 3 hour commute. "Stay Healthy") getting their threads removed, I'm starting to wonder if psychiatric evals should be a part of the pharmacy school interviews.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02802602

They don't for interviews, but most senior positions in VACO or Pentagon DoD and any position that involves security gets MMPI. What's disturbing though is that they are not trying to avoid hiring neurotic people. There's a certain sort of profile that is neurotypical for cops and it's always more aggressive than the general populace (in fact, you won't be hired or promoted if your tendencies are too pacifistic). The neurotypical ones for Pentagon and VACO staff usually fall along the depersonalization disorders (high Pa and Pd in particular). I'm the norm for my technical unit with high Si scores. It does have the effect of knowing that the sorts of people who run the place really are different than the average clinician.
 
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http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02802602

They don't for interviews, but most senior positions in VACO or Pentagon DoD and any position that involves security gets MMPI. What's disturbing though is that they are not trying to avoid hiring neurotic people. There's a certain sort of profile that is neurotypical for cops and it's always more aggressive than the general populace (in fact, you won't be hired or promoted if your tendencies are too pacifistic). The neurotypical ones for Pentagon and VACO staff usually fall along the depersonalization disorders (high Pa and Pd in particular). I'm the norm for my technical unit with high Si scores. It does have the effect of knowing that the sorts of people who run the place really are different than the average clinician.
So they want people with high psychopathic and paranoid tendencies to be at the central offices? I thought the armed forces screened those guys out, why would they want to actively promote those kinds of people as civil servants in the VA?

P.S. Sorry to derail the thread.
 
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My thoughts on the new NAPLEX - I think it's a step in the right direction. The APhA and the ASHP act as if they represent us, but they don't do anything meaningful for our profession. I guess the NABP is finally taking a stand against the proliferation of subpar pharmacy schools. Even the deans at my state school were happy about the changes (and consequent failures of students at other schools).

I can't wait for the new communications part in 2018. It's about time someone tried to increase the standards in pharmacy education. Heck, I wouldn't mind if they implemented a series of board exams (like the USMLEs) right this minute. Throw the people who just want to cruise through school into the cauldron. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for them.
 
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In a perfect world especially for saturation, yes schools should make it harder to get in. They should choose candidates more wisely but why should they? I'd open up a school next year and i'll gladly take 200 students at hell 40k a pop. Give you a nice Cali discount at the rate and I give no **** about the pass rate. You know why? People are still desperate to get in so they'll keep coming and I would keep collecting. So these numbers don't mean a thing. Schools will continue to take more and more people and you will see more BS articles that by 2030 we need 74858 more Pharmacists lol
 
So they want people with high psychopathic and paranoid tendencies to be at the central offices? I thought the armed forces screened those guys out, why would they want to actively promote those kinds of people as civil servants in the VA?

P.S. Sorry to derail the thread.
Hahaha. I've asked lord999 this question in different forms. I don't get it either. Who would want a psychopath in charge?

Oh, then I remembered that we elected Trump. Never mind. Psychopathy is valued in our society apparently.
 
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So they want people with high psychopathic and paranoid tendencies to be at the central offices? I thought the armed forces screened those guys out, why would they want to actively promote those kinds of people as civil servants in the VA?

P.S. Sorry to derail the thread.

Says the guy with the Ramsay Bolton avatar.
 
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i wouldn't be surprised if Deans of underwhelming schools get together and complain to get this rectified. In CA, the BOP required 900 hrs to be acquired outside of school APPE/IPPE programs until two yrs ago when deans complained that our students can't find intern jobs. Long story short, the requirement is gone..
 
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I just noticed this too - what's up with the spread between # of NAPLEX first-time attempts and # of MPJE first time attempts for some of these programs?

Look at both UTs (Austin and UTHSC)

UT Austin - 115 first-time NAPLEX test-takers (2016), 113 for MPJE
UTHSC - 150 NAPLEX, 109 MPJE


And then some ones with bad outcomes:

Roseman - 228 NAPLEX (184 passed), 87 MPJE (!)
MCP Boston - 327 NAPLEX (250 passed), 176 MPJE
MCP Worcester - 264 NAPLEX (170 passed), 86 MPJE (!)

I gave the UT Austin example because it makes sense for most grads to take NAPLEX and MPJE... but why take NAPLEX and not MPJE even if you fail NAPLEX? The goal is to become licensed, right? Maybe most UT grads stay in state and the MPJE count data is not capturing exams taken in other states? Aside from Californians not taking MPJE

I'm almost certain that the MPJE figure takes into account the law exam being taken in state. Why would UT report passing rates of students taking the Oklahoma MPJE or any other state for that matter? That's why my university didn't count me among test takers because I took the Texas MPJE.
 
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So they want people with high psychopathic and paranoid tendencies to be at the central offices? I thought the armed forces screened those guys out, why would they want to actively promote those kinds of people as civil servants in the VA?

P.S. Sorry to derail the thread.

Psychopath, no, sociopath, depends if they are effective or not.

Not openly (except for police/Office of Security and Preparedness where it is a selection factor that the candidate be somewhat hot-blooded), but we have found that without the ability to depersonalize matters, people with a normal psychological profile (complete church going blank) will become paralyzed by indecision. For IT types though, I do think ability goes hand in hand with introversion to a certain level. That said, it's not a selection against problem, it's something that you do so that you can get treatment for the potentially 'harmful' issues for neuroses. But having OCD in pharmacy is probably an occupational plus. VA has the same tendencies as the DoD that their upper management exhibit 'leadership' and 'decisiveness', and when you're making decisions about human lives...

But yeah, having a high Pa score keeps me vigilant to conspiracies. I see more of them than what is actually in reality, but I have thought through how to counter even some imaginary ones. As well, my high Si keeps me from accidental disclosure. Perfect for some areas of the DC Beltway. It's that sort of neurosis in small amounts that make for more effective personnel, but too much becomes harmful to everyone. When it looks like it could cross the line (stress), that is what psychiatry is for, to manage neurosis effectively for both personal and societal reasons.

In the military, that's the reason for stress testing, they want to know what personnel will do when deprived of their social and emotional support. We have our own methods for Central Office which are very comparable psychologically to the military physical stress. What do you think FACHE really means in hospital management?

Running with that analysis, Ramsay Bolton is not an effective sociopath as everything thinks he is one. Littlefinger could be an effective sociopath if he did not value his personal agenda so much. Varys is an effective sociopath, because no one thinks he is one, and he does not have any personal agendas that cause him to make stupid mistakes.

And when I say effective sociopathy, I mean what happens when they are removed from the picture. Ramsay dies, his entire matters fall apart, ineffective in the end. Littlefinger is removed, the chaos he caused is not for anything as all of his agendas are personal and selfish, so not effective beyond what he can get right now. But, even if Varys gets killed, he still wins as a strong kingdom does not necessarily require his survival (though living wouldn't hurt). Who do you think the Beltway staff cheer for in GoT? We would love to go around being Ramsay as who wouldn't like Whom The Gods Would Destroy kind of week, we would like to be Varys in the end as there is a lasting legacy, but we really act like Littlefinger and think we're too clever for everyone else while our personal agendas get in the way of the real work.

The begged question maybe for you all to me is whether I am one (or trying to be one). I lack the sincere belief that I could convince you otherwise, which should give you all the answers you need in my case.
 
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EDIT: User was warned for this post. Please keep it professional. --Neuronix
 
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PCOM-GA didn't do so well (~75%). I wonder why the GA campus had such a lower pass rate than the main campus.
GA campus is fairly new and the newest in GA. Doesn't hold a candle to Mercer or UGA. However, they don't have a bloated class size (<90 last i checked) like the other schools are applications have dropped across the board in GA so I wouldn't be surprised if their class size got even smaller. It'll be interesting to see if they start to trend up. The ~75% is only their 3rd class graduated if I'm not mistaken.
 
GA campus is fairly new and the newest in GA. Doesn't hold a candle to Mercer or UGA. However, they don't have a bloated class size (<90 last i checked) like the other schools are applications have dropped across the board in GA so I wouldn't be surprised if their class size got even smaller. It'll be interesting to see if they start to trend up. The ~75% is only their 3rd class graduated if I'm not mistaken.

This is just a guess, but I bet that with PCOM-GA being the most recently-opened pharmacy school in GA, they could be the school that has tipped many of the job markets in GA "over the edge" into saturation territory. Then again, like you said, they don't accept nearly as many applicants per year as schools like Mercer and South. I had no idea that Mercer was graduating ~150 pharmacists every year. With their c/o 2016 NAPLEX pass rate being only 79%, I guess that means only 118 or 119 students actually entered the job market last year?
 

Nope. I studied enough. It was complicated. I thought they weren't gonna let me take it cause I noticed a difference on my license a couple days before taking the exam. I thought they were gonna be a stickler for exact names. I went in thinking they were gonna reschedule me. But they sat me down then I pretty much panicked. I'm not proud of what I did but I def believe in "diamonds are made under pressure"


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No, it doesn't mean that necessarily. They can take the Naplex again if they fail. I think they just have to wait 90 days.

I figured there was a provision like that. So have you heard anything specific about the schools in GA reducing their class sizes? If I recall correctly, Auburn (not in GA but close) basically accepted almost every applicant they interviewed last year, so it seems like they're on the verge of having no choice but to reduce their class size at some point soon.
 
Complain when pass rates are high. Complain when pass rates are low. Blah blah.
 
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I haven't heard of any pharmacy school anywhere in the US decreasing class sizes. Some have increased and added satellite campuses. :( Mercer has had 150 class sizes for over 10 years now. They may have always had 150. Schools are lowering admission standards to fill classes. If you go to their websites, they post the stats for the different years, so that's how you know it's not just bitter people on SDN complaining. You can clearly see the average GPA and PCAT scores are decreasing.

I get it; instead of reducing their class sizes, pharmacy schools are simply going to lower their standards by as much as they need to in order to fill their seats. Even if the average NAPLEX pass rate drops to 60%, they're going to continue doing whatever they can to fill their classes at current target capacities.
 
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I haven't heard of any pharmacy school anywhere in the US decreasing class sizes. Some have increased and added satellite campuses. :( Mercer has had 150 class sizes for over 10 years now. They may have always had 150. Schools are lowering admission standards to fill classes. If you go to their websites, they post the stats for the different years, so that's how you know it's not just bitter people on SDN complaining. You can clearly see the average GPA and PCAT scores are decreasing.
University of Arizona did not completely fill their latest class, only 111 selected for 120 spots (prior year was 120/120). Props to them for not taking anyone with a pulse. Hopefully other schools follow suit or decide to permanently decrease class sizes.
 
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Wow, I'm shocked to see that all the pharmacy schools in GA had pass rates <80% except for UGA. Even Auburn (which, here in the south, is considered to be a coveted school by basically anyone who has an inkling of interest in going to pharmacy school) had a <80% overall pass rate.

Just curious -- for the overall pass rate figure, how long do the statisticians wait before they decide to crunch the numbers and report this? Technically, couldn't a school's graduates from any particular year continue to take and re-take the NAPLEX even after they'be been out of school for a year?


I'm not there is a noticeable difference in the average student of uga and Mercer compared to south and pcom. I'm partial to giving uga the nod but understand even they have subpar students. I also a lot of great mercer pharmacists. But let's be honest cost wise the best students will choose uga due to being significantly cheaper.
 
I'm not there is a noticeable difference in the average student of uga and Mercer compared to south and pcom. I'm partial to giving uga the nod but understand even they have subpar students. I also a lot of great mercer pharmacists. But let's be honest cost wise the best students will choose uga due to being significantly cheaper.

What do you think of Auburn's pass rate being only 78.6%? It really surprised me to see that, because I recall that according to the 2016 pharmacy school rankings, Auburn is considered to be the 14th best pharmacy school in the country. I remember that when I was in high school, some of the smartest people I knew committed themselves to the 0-6 pharmacy pathway with the goal of getting into Auburn's pharmacy school. I guess that there just aren't as many "super geniuses" who are choosing to pursue pharmacy anymore.
 
What do you think of Auburn's pass rate being only 78.6%? It really surprised me to see that, because I recall that according to the 2016 pharmacy school rankings, Auburn is considered to be the 14th best pharmacy school in the country. I remember that when I was in high school, some of the smartest people I knew committed themselves to the 0-6 pharmacy pathway with the goal of getting into Auburn's pharmacy school. I guess that there just aren't as many "super geniuses" who are choosing to pursue pharmacy anymore.

The way they rank pharmacy schools is not the end all be all. I know one fairly recent auburn grad (<5 years) and am not impressed. Obviously a small sample size. Auburn does have more prerequisites to get in that typically takes 3 years so minimum of 7 years. Probably weeds out the highest achievers who want the 2 year undergrad route
 
The way they rank pharmacy schools is not the end all be all. I know one fairly recent auburn grad (<5 years) and am not impressed. Obviously a small sample size. Auburn does have more prerequisites to get in that typically takes 3 years so minimum of 7 years. Probably weeds out the highest achievers who want the 2 year undergrad route

I think they actually just changed the pre-requisite rules; now, if you have a bachelor's degree, you only have to take the standard pre-med/pre-pharm classes (biology, chemistry, etc.). If you don't have a degree, you still have to take all the extra pre-reqs that tend to scare people off. BTW, just curious, what was noticeably bad about the Auburn pharmacist you know of? Just wondering
 
I couldn't say it's all up to the schools of pharmacy in not choosing the appropriate candidates; in the end, it is the individual student who is taking the test. I think a lot of students may have the impression she/he have earned the degree simply from enduring academics & rotation & expect the Boards to be a cakewalk.

Powerpoint lectures will only cover so much information; in reality, much more preparation needs to go into studying for boards both reference & experience-wise. These rates should serve as a much needed wake-up call...whatever happened to self-reliance & being accountable? Sure the schools provide tutoring & appropriate resources to the students; it's up to the students to actually utilize them though
 
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You do know that the competencies for the 2016 test were changed, right? The goal of NABP was to not have as many people pass which is exactly what happened. The test was changed again in November of 2016 to not be adaptive.

People are always complaining about how there are too many pharmacists and when NAPB does something you are calling the schools and students dumb...
 
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We need to see how the 2017 numbers play out. The first year of a new exam always has lower pass rates. The blueprint changed in November 2015. 2017 will have the longer exam and it is non adaptive but no changes to the blueprint were made.
 
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Definitely, and I think I made the mistake of typing too little where I didn't make my opinion completely clear. I do agree with you that the subpar students share some responsibility. Certainly, no one should feel entitled that just because they were admitted into a program that they should be able to jerk off and be guaranteed a successful future. They have responsibilities as well and they are no better than the schools.

What I was trying to emphasize is that the schools have the keys to the locks, and they are freely handing those keys out motivated purely by profit and greed. There are scrubs everywhere in life, but the schools are passing (literally and figuratively) these scrubs off as competent students: it's not just kids with 20 F's and D's failing the NAPLEX, there are plenty of posters with a ~3 ish GPA average failing the NAPLEX.

So increasing the NAPLEX will definitely curb some of these students and prevent them from being pharmacists, but it's a waste of society's resources. They could well have been good menial laborers, but were polished and dressed up for roles that they could not handle by ever increasing pharmacy schools. The schools have their money, they don't care. For every scrub that fails out another 3 are ready to take his place. By tying in NAPLEX performance to school accreditation (in a serious manner), schools will have accountability and have to start taking our profession seriously.

Is the patient important? Yes. Is safety and ethics important? Yes. But as you can see from trends in the schools, theory and honor isn't enough to curb greed. That is why we have to go to the root of the problem and punish these schools. Preventing scrubs from passing the NAPLEX is like plucking off a few leaves off of a weed and leaving the stem (the schools) there. It's not even a temporary fix, worsens society, and does not stop more and more weeds from popping up.

Hope this longer posts makes my opinions more clear. STAY HEALTHY BRO

i can't help but notice your icon profile icon every time i read your posts. it's really distracting. i mean... what is it even?!:dead:
 
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